Hamas gets its war
posted at 10:15 am on December 27, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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The patience of the Israelis reached its end today. After taking more that 200 missile attacks in the past week, the IDF attacked every known Hamas security station in Gaza today, killing hundreds and wounding hundreds more. Gazans pledged resistance to any ground invasion, but Israel has not yet indicated when — or if — one will come:
Israeli warplanes retaliating for rocket fire from the Gaza Strip pounded dozens of security compounds across the Hamas-ruled territory in unprecedented waves of airstrikes Saturday, killing at least 155 and wounding more than 310 in the single bloodiest day of fighting in recent memory.
Hamas said all of its security installations were hit and responded with several medium-range Grad rockets at Israel, reaching deeper than in the past. One Israeli was killed and at least four people were wounded.
Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak said “the operation will last as long as necessary,” but it was not clear if it would be coupled with a ground offensive. Asked if Hamas political leaders might be targeted next, military spokeswoman Maj. Avital Leibovich said, “Any Hamas target is a target.” …
But with 200 mortars and rockets raining down on Israel since the truce expired a week ago, and 3,000 since the beginning of the year, according to the military’s count, pressure had been mounting in Israel for the military to crush the gunmen.
Hamas made it clear last week that they wanted war. They announced the end of the so-called truce, although as the 16th paragraph in this report finally makes clear, Hamas and other affiliated groups had never stopped attacking Israel. They want to provoke a wider war and hope to get Egypt involved. The Egyptians opened the border to provide emergency medical care to the wounded and condemned the attack, but have not broken diplomatic relations with Israel yet over the attack.
The world should step aside and quit interfering in the war Hamas so desperately wants and will desperately lose if left to their own devices. As long as Hamas controls Gaza, a state of war exists, and cease-fires do nothing to advance peace, as this year has proven yet again. Tiresome calls for “restraint” don’t work when one side is determined to have war. The best way to resolve this conflict is to allow Hamas to have its war and get utterly crushed by Israel or overthrown by Gazans to avoid that unavoidable conclusion.
Hamas insists on a war of annihilation and won’t accept any other solution. Let them have it.
Update: Meanwhile, Fox needs a new headline writer, according to HA reader Roger B:
No mention of the 200+ rocket attacks Hamas conducted on Israel over the past week, or at least some hint in the headlines of the context of Israel’s response? Surely they can do better than that.
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I’m sure Obama will urge both sides to show “restraint.”
Rotsa ruck BHO.
Mojave Mark on December 27, 2008 at 11:14 PM
You’ve just got to hand it to SaintOlaf – can anyone here remember another player with a collection of positions that were as eclectic and far flung as our guy? He is absolutely all over the place.
If consistency is the measuring stick, then S/O is the winner. He is so consistently inconsistent that you can almost predict his move. Just identify the least logical position in any discussion, and there you will find SaintOlaf.
Jaibones on December 27, 2008 at 11:39 PM
Blake: The reason Israel is shipping the humanitarian aid in itself is because they have no other way to monitor what is included in said humanitarian aid.
A package from Syria or Egypt could contain anything from sugar cookies to Sarin.
Kristopher on December 27, 2008 at 11:42 PM
1. http://www.foxnews.com is every bit as libturd as CNN
2. The Palestinians chickens have come home to root about time
3. If only Meir Kahane were alive today to serve as an advisor to PM BeBe
4. The Palestinians are scum
bill30097 on December 28, 2008 at 12:36 AM
“Saint” Oaf is a sick Nazi
bill30097 on December 28, 2008 at 12:37 AM
Wow. I’ve defended you before, but you’re really a wacko. And ignorant to boot.
fossten on December 28, 2008 at 12:39 AM
That they are bill30097, After 9/11 Fox News was the only channel I would listen to. But lately they have really gone Liberal. The Palestinians are scum! I am glad that Israel finally have had enough. I don’t like wars either. But they are necessary at times. This is one that is necessary.
sheebe on December 28, 2008 at 12:47 AM
I think Saint olaf watches to much of the Golden Girls!
sheebe on December 28, 2008 at 12:48 AM
Isn’t it interest, that after a country is struck by terrorist, opps, excuse me, militants, they are the bad guys. The citizens of the US, Israel, and now India are just cannon fodder. How dare they strike back!
N4646W on December 28, 2008 at 1:13 AM
Hamas is not a nation state and they started it. Hamas is an organization that has one stated goal: the total destruction of the sovereign state of Israel. Israel, and every other nation state, has the absolute right to defend herself up to and including the total destruction of her enemy. The Geneva Conventions do not apply to Hamas or those in Hamas. Actually, the term “war” may not even apply as I believe “war” can only be waged between nations. Those on HA who are way more knowledgeable about the legal end can correct me. This falls under the heading, “vermin hunting”. Same holds true for Al Quadea, regardless of what the Supreme Court says.
As for the civilians. The sooner they remove Hamas the sooner they can live again. Also please remember one thing: All Hamas missiles are unguided; thay do not care who they hit. Israeli missiles are guided to their targets. If I were a civilian in Gaza I would not get within 100 yards of any Hamasitte. Those with them support them and as such are valid targets. Also, one more thing: the Israelis are not intentionally targeting civilians. If they were then why not just napalm the whole of Gaza and be done with it? Fire bombing works wonders! Ask the Japanese.
Who was it that said. “The Supreme Court has made their ruling, now it is up to the Supreme Court to enforce it.”?
I don’t want to say FDR, I want to say Andrew Jackson or Teddy Roosevelt.
“This is the way Hamas wants it. Well this is the way Hamas gets it.”
Bubba Redneck on December 28, 2008 at 1:20 AM
Excellent Post! Wish I could think of who said the quote. My brain is in active right now.
sheebe on December 28, 2008 at 1:46 AM
Mosques are plenty, graveyards are plenty, but morals and whiskey are scarce. The Koran does not permit Mohammedans to drink. Their natural instincts do not permit them to be moral.
- Mark Twain
MB4 on December 28, 2008 at 2:20 AM
90% of them were Hamas operatives and don’t forget these “innocent civilians” (Gazans) voted overwhelmingly to have a terrorist organization, which openly declares its intent to destroy Israel and refuses to give up terrorism, hates the West, brainwashes their kids to become suicide bombers, as their government.
As for wanting the deaths of 1.5 million people-what if they all happened to be Al Qaeda (or Hamas) members who wanted to murder you and your family and nuke your country? Recall we killed 20 million Nazis, would you have cried for those racist mass murdering anti-semitic hate-mongers too?
Clearly you’re the maniac on this board. Go find a jihadist site to post on where you’ll be welcomed with open arms.
thinkagain on December 28, 2008 at 2:23 AM
Just how far up Micheal Moore’s a$$ does your head have to be to make an ignorant statement such as this.
Those 3000 rockets your “innocent” civilians have launched on Israel just this year ARE war crimes.
We can’t be war criminals, we’re Palestinian By Bradley Burston
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/792365.html
Take the word of Human Rights Watch.
The world is waiting for the super smart liberals to show how terrorist regimes and the killers that support them can be taken out in war without “civilian” casualties and it “costing to much money”.
Where is all the super smart solutions for stopping the biggest sponsor of terrorism in the world from getting an atomic bomb and funding terrorist proxy groups like Hamas and Hezbollah:
Iranian General: Tehran Arming ‘Liberation Armies’
Monday , October 27, 2008
TEHRAN, Iran
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,444179,00.html
Whining and crying on the sidelines,making “save Darfur”bumper stickers and waving the peace sign has not stopped one terrorist or freed one single person.
When are liberals going to start protesting and condemning the terrorist?
Baxter Greene on December 28, 2008 at 2:50 AM
I know I’ll probably take flak for saying it, but what the hell are we thinking putting women in as SOS? Islam is going to be a hot ticket for some time to come; how do Muslims treat women? What is their attitude toward women? Any group who sanctions “honor killings” shows its’ true attitude. What do we do; we send Maddie Halfbright, Condi and now Ma Clinton. They all toddle off to the ME thinking they are going to be instruments of reason and as soon as they get back on the plane to fly home the Muslims fall on the floor laughing their asses off!! I seriously doubt that most of the Muslim countries will ever negotiate in good faith, especially if it is a female trying to handle the negotiations.
I know it is the PC thing to do, but Muslims have shown us over and over again what they think of women. Women rank lower than sheep on the Muslim ladder. Just because we consider men and women to be equals doesn’t mean they do. Why have a SOS who starts out with one hand tied behind their backs?
What we need is a SOS who talks softly and carries a big stick (not that I think the Messiah will allow that).
Saint Olaf, your anti-semitism is showing.
poodlemom on December 28, 2008 at 3:11 AM
Next: Israel prepares Gaza ground incursion, Hamas gears for suicide terror
DEBKAfile Special Analysis
December 27, 2008, 11:15 PM (GMT+02:00)
DEBKAfile’s military sources assess the next stage of Israel’s Gaza campaign as being a ground incursion of the Gaza Strip, to follow up the air bombardment of Hamas compounds Saturday, Dec. 27. Hamas estimates that in four minutes, dozens of Israeli bombers and helicopters flattened 30 “high profile” sites. At least 350 Palestinians were killed, 90 percent of them Hamas operatives, and between 700 and 800 more were injured. Some of the casualties are still buried under the rubble. The blow sustained by the Palestinian Islamist terrorist group was massive by any military standards and severely upset its military equilibrium. Its retaliation against Israeli towns and villages was therefore slower and smaller in scope that Israel expected.
The fifty plus missiles fired into Israel included a small number of 42-range Grad Katyusha rockets made in Iran. One Israeli was killed and several injured in Netivot and three more hurt when Sderot synagogue too a direct missile hit.
Nonetheless, Hamas will not show a white flag, even after losing hundreds of its military and police personnel, including top commanders, and will make a supreme effort to retaliate from the Gaza Strip as well as mobilizing its substantial Hizballah-backed command center in Lebanon. Hamas operatives will be pressed into service as suicide terrorists. They remain active after Israeli units and Mahmoud Abbas’ special forces trained by US and British instructors conducted systematic crackdowns to crush them for more than a year. The second blow in the form of a formidable Israeli ground incursion without delay is therefore imperative to prevent Hamas getting its second wind.
While Israel’s air attack is counted a success, its war chiefs are taking care not to be trapped by an early achievement into the sort of blunders which led to the Lebanon war’s unsatisfactory conclusion in 2006. That campaign was commanded by a former airman, Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz, who saw no point in a ground operation after Hizballah’s command center was razed by air – until it was too late.
The first objective of a ground force in the coming hours will be to destroy “Lower Gaza,” the underground city designed by an Iranian general and spread under most of the enclave’s area. This subterranean sanctuary kept the bulk of the Hamas army, 15,000 men, their officers and leaders, out of harm’s way during the Israeli air offensive Saturday. Their resistance must be broken before Hamas can be brought to surrender. Until then they will fight on.
The second Israeli objective must be to sever the Gaza Strip from Egypt by recapturing the Philadelphi border strip.
These missions are formidable indeed and may take weeks of ups and downs, which is why prime minister Ehud Olmert’s goal of restoring normal lives to the people of southern Israel is a lot less simplistic than it sounds. The air operation was indeed just the beginning.
MB4 on December 28, 2008 at 3:16 AM
I won’t give you flak. You are right. Muslim Men don’t hold a woman in high regard at all. And a Woman has no business holding office where they have to go and talk to the Muslim Leaders. Which of course are always men. Usually. Great post.
sheebe on December 28, 2008 at 3:17 AM
Thanks for that, MB4. I didn’t know about the underground city. Could that possibly be the reason for the Israeli request for bunker-busters recently?
OldEnglish on December 28, 2008 at 3:25 AM
The first objective of a ground force in the coming hours will be to destroy “Lower Gaza,” the underground city designed by an Iranian general and spread under most of the enclave’s area. This subterranean sanctuary kept the bulk of the Hamas army, 15,000 men, their officers and leaders, out of harm’s way during the Israeli air offensive Saturday. Their resistance must be broken before Hamas can be brought to surrender. Until then they will fight on.
Wow! I was going to mention this earlier. But you would be surprised that a lot of people don’t believe it. We have a underground city. No sh*t. I am not sure if I should say. It has been on and off on the news in Vegas. But, it is for real. My second husband did work there.
sheebe on December 28, 2008 at 4:16 AM
Forgot to say that he worked there over 20 years ago.
sheebe on December 28, 2008 at 4:16 AM
On the other hand why do we take Islam seriously at all?
Doing what you suggest is simply allowing Islam to define the agenda.
The only reason any of these Islamic cess-pits have power and influence in the contemporary world is because the civilised world gives it to them.
If we stopped pretending that their repulsive ideology and cultures are somehow worthy of respect perhaps they would slowly be persuaded to change. Your suggestion is just another concession to help the Islamic mind feel secure in its own misguided and depraved sense of superiority.
Forcing them to negotiate with a woman, carrying a big stick, could be a valuable exercise in forcing them to recognise that they aren’t half what they think they are.
Islam is intellectually infantile. Infants need to be told what to do and when its time for a spanking they don’t get to choose whether its given by mummy or daddy.
YiZhangZhe on December 28, 2008 at 4:19 AM
Haven’t you learned yet, not to quote anything from Debka?
thebronze on December 28, 2008 at 4:23 AM
Good for Israel! Pound them again and again and again! Don’t stop pounding them until they are toothless! Pound them for a month and then pound them some more. Pound them into ashes and then pound the ashes! We would never tolerate 1 missile strike into the US and Israel should not have to either! EVER!
sabbott on December 28, 2008 at 6:29 AM
Uh-oh! Just wait till Obama hears about this.
tgillian on December 28, 2008 at 7:35 AM
In this case, Debka is just reporting the news. Here in Israel, Debka’s report is early but nothing special.
Cabinet approves mobilization of thousands of reservists
Shy Guy on December 28, 2008 at 8:17 AM
Actually, a country wasn’t ‘taken over’ 60 years ago. It gained independence. Many of its inhabitants (Jews) bought land from the Ottomans. This predates the Mandate. It predates Balfour. It even predates Theodor Herzl.
‘Deliberate genocide’ is redundant as a term. It also doesn’t apply in this case.
anuts on December 28, 2008 at 8:18 AM
As an environmentalist, I strongly feel we need to abrogate the treaty on chemical warfare. These bunker-busters are an environmentally damaging way to get around that treaty. Overall, we need to be honest about the muslim slime we confront. Whatever rule we make to put some decency into war, they will just exploit. We have to do a cost/benefit analysis of each rule for decency and only implement those rules which the muslims won’t be able to achieve greater evil by exploiting those rules.
thuja on December 28, 2008 at 9:22 AM
Agreed. They have to be made to understand that they are the ones who are going to have to make concessions to the rest of the world–not the rest of the world to them. This tendency towards continual accomodation–whether done in the foreign arena or domestically in the case of a child throwing a temper tantrum–is one of the major flaws in our culture at this time. It’s time to put Machiavelli’s credo into practice: While it is better to be both loved and feared, if forced to go with one or the other, it’s better to be feared than loved. But, the one thing you cannot ever permit is to allow yourself to be despised. Force the Islamic regimes to deal with female foreign ministers, secretary of states, and heads of state. Make them grow up–and if it takes a bit of fear to drive that point home–then so be it.
Matt Helm on December 28, 2008 at 12:05 PM
Obviously not.
MB4 on December 28, 2008 at 12:57 PM
Welcome to the world of liberals. Just because “the Saint” enjoys being raped he thinks the rest of us should have to endure taking it up the ass without any resistance. Ya know, I’m sure Hitler had “issues” as a child and that would explain a lot of his actions but… I don’t care! I want him dead, the same way I want loonies who keep launching misiles at my house; dead.
yubley on December 28, 2008 at 1:00 PM
I’m a wacko and ignorant because I believe in NON VIOLENCE?
If that’s your position clearly you would think Christ was a wacko and ignorant because that is what He taught and that is what He commanded us to do!
Frankly I don’t care what the “atheists” here think(though I can’t imagine why they would support a zionist THEOCRACY except because of their rampant demonization of muslims and brainwashing by the media)..
But it’s sad to see Christians who somehow think violence is acceptable..
What does turn the other cheek mean to you?
Does it mean retaliate by killing all of the innocent civilians and children that you can?
Obviously Christ’s kingdom is not of this world.
That means we will always be ruled over by someone until armageddon…it doesn’t matter whether it is by anti Christian zionists or anti Christian muslims.
But the fact is, the propaganda that they are telling you is not true.
muslims have ruled over majority Christian nations for 1,200 years and they haven’t “killed all non muslims” like you claim.
It’s total propaganda.
Yes we’re second class citzens in muslim nations and yes we may have to pay a jizya tax but they do not kill you because you are not muslim!
They are fooling you into taking up an anti-Christian principle(violent militancy) and it’s a travesty!
SaintOlaf on December 28, 2008 at 1:26 PM
Go Israel! Maybe you’ll accomplish what no one else has the b#%&s to do.
hopefloats on December 28, 2008 at 1:43 PM
Kinda depends on who “they” are. Don’t you agree? Or are you stereotyping all muslims as being either murderers, or the kind of people who see others as second class citizens that they will mostly leave alone..as long as they accept being extorted.
What a narrow minded and bigoted view of muslims! You should be ashamed.
Itchee Dryback on December 28, 2008 at 1:54 PM
Ditto.
I think he’s off his meds. Try to jibe the current thread with this gem from May:
My best friend growing up was “Palestinian”-American and when I was younger (and idealistic) I was sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. But even then I remember many conversations with her and her cousin (who actually fought against Israelis) about the situation and they never asserted that the conflict was anything other than a military struggle for political recognition. The notion that Israel has been committing genocide is completely divorced from reality.
Y-not on December 28, 2008 at 2:01 PM
To safeguard my near perfect record of successfully treating
psychotictroubled patients I just want to hereby state for the record that I have never treated the one who calls himself SaintOlaf.Sigmund on December 28, 2008 at 2:01 PM
Yeah that’s hilarious sigggy..
Now I’m pychotic because I believe in non violence.
Beautiful.
SaintOlaf on December 28, 2008 at 2:05 PM
Psychotic??? where did that come from? There’s a difference between psychotic and a bigot..Anyway, I’m sure there are psychotic bigots, but I didn’t accuse you of being one, I just wondered about your seemingly bigoted stereotyping of muslims.
Itchee Dryback on December 28, 2008 at 2:10 PM
I love the smell of fried Phallus-tinian in the morning. It smells like ‘justice’.
MaiDee on December 28, 2008 at 2:14 PM
Let me just say that you certainly reside well off from what most in the mental health profession consider to be within the normal range in mental health matters.
Sigmund on December 28, 2008 at 2:16 PM
I responded to a post that was not directed to me…nevermind.
Itchee Dryback on December 28, 2008 at 2:18 PM
no its not. He told us to get a sword.
ABSOLUTELY IT IS. to defend yourself, your family, your country…the death penalty is perfectly fine in the bible…Romans 13.
it sure doesn’t mean I stand by and do nothing as my wife and children are raped, murdered etc.
then you’re a fool and need to read history 101…ever hear of what happened to the armenians???
right4life on December 28, 2008 at 2:48 PM
I’m afraid you have the kind of anti-semitism that has infected much of the church for centuries. if the ‘palestinians’ had their way, there would be NO jews in Israel…they’d be dead or fled.
and doing things like fireboming tokyo, nuking Hiroshima, are perfectly acceptable to defend yourself. the palestinians want total war…give it to them…and thats whats coming anyway…sooner or later…once iran get nukes….you think they’ll be as restrained as the israelis?
right4life on December 28, 2008 at 2:54 PM
By George, you are right.
kanda on December 28, 2008 at 2:59 PM
Aaahhhh – now I see! The good man from Saint Olaf has a bit of the anti-semite in him, and has taken up the rhetoric of his erstwhile enemies in the hard left.
S/O – how exactly is the only functioning democracy in the middle east somehow a theocracy in your view, that should not be entitled to militarily defend itself against 3,000 rockets fired on them by foreign enemies in just 11 months?
Jaibones on December 28, 2008 at 3:30 PM
…a bit of the anti-semite? The way I see it, he’s too busy building showers and ovens to come up with a coherent answer.
john1schn on December 28, 2008 at 5:43 PM
Interesting point from the Associated Press – of the 251 people killed, 20 were children under the age of 16 (the average age in the Gaza Strip, is what, 17?) — and **nine** women.
If these were indiscriminate attacks, you would be seeing a lot more women and children killed. It looks as if civilian deaths are only about 10% of the total – phenomenally low results in such a crowded urban area.
Realist on December 28, 2008 at 5:47 PM
SaintOlaf on December 27, 2008 at 8:50 PM
A teeny tiny violin, jerkoff..
TexasJew on December 28, 2008 at 5:48 PM
I never thought I’d agree with right4life on an issue, but I’m happily proven wrong in this case.
Xolom on December 28, 2008 at 5:51 PM
Duh, Yeah! Because those that DO believe in violence just don’t care and will kill you where you stand, infidel.
Non violence only works when you are prepared to surrender as your primary form of response to aggression. If you can show me a war won by non-violence then I will jump onto your bandwagon. While you are at it, show me a home invasion stopped by police. There are bastards out there that have no problem raping or exterminating 6,000,000 and non-violence doesn’t stop them, only a bullet. Maybe you could go try surrendering to the Taliban and see how that works out for you :)
rgranger on December 28, 2008 at 5:59 PM
Wow! What a hypocrite! You stated Hamas, and Hezzbollah as terrorist groups. And yet, you claim Israel is committing Genocide. Interesting twist of words you have. What is it then? Israel has no right to defend themselves against Islamic Terrorist groups? They should just let the Hamas missiles kill their children? Not fight back? You are a real chicken. In the Bible it does tell us to fight back. A eye for a eye. You say one thing then another. You need help badly.
sheebe on December 28, 2008 at 6:16 PM
“Your enemy is he who will give his life to kill you,” said the Time Traveler. “Your enemies are they that wish you and your children and your grandchildren dead and who are willing to sacrifice themselves, or support those fanatics who will sacrifice themselves, to see you and your institutions destroyed. You haven’t figured that out yet – the majority of you fat, sleeping, smug, infinitely stupid Americans and Europeans.”
He stood and set the Scotch glass back in its place on my sideboard. “How, we wonder in my time,” he said softly, “can you ignore the better part of a billion people who say aloud that they are willing to kill your children . . . or condone and celebrate the killing of them? And ignore them as they act on what they say? We do not understand you.”
wccawa on December 28, 2008 at 7:31 PM
John Bolton just mentioned on Fox News the possibility that Israel may “open a third front” on Iran’s nuclear facilities. Hmmmm….
Bugler on December 28, 2008 at 7:42 PM
I sure hope they do. They need to do something. When The One gets in office, I fear that Israel is on their own. Is time for Israel to do what they must do. Either we are with them, or we are against them. I for one am with them.
sheebe on December 28, 2008 at 7:53 PM
apologies if this is a double post – the one I tried to post in the other Hamas thread never appeared.
You are correct. Iran knows they have nothing to fear from Obama, as he assured all of us multiple time in his campaign.
On the issue of Arab(Palestinian)-Israeli conflict Obama has been a chimera. Chicago, the city with the biggest Palestinian population in the US, and a Jewish population with significant wealth and political power gave Obama the perfect stage to master the double-talk-say-nothing. He both publicly supports Israel, and is socially a friend to Khalidi, Said & Wright … (LA Times) who are all not just pro-Palestinian but Anti-Israel, Anti-Zionist & Anti-Semitic. The DNC and Obama have to walk this line very carefully, lest they lose the traditional Jewish vote (and it’s money) or they lose the Islamic vote and it’s increasing population coming from immigration, conversion in prisons(also here), and higher birth rates.
Hamas, Hezbollah, the PLO/PA, the Muslim brotherhood, Etc, are all the same Hydra. Really it doesn’t matter if one head proclaims the other no good, they share the same heart. The Palestinian people are just pawns (albeit willing) in empowering the head. Until they accept their role in their own demise and kill the beast from within the conflict will continue.
Meanwhile Israel would be wise to keep their eye on the ball – Iran.
batterup on December 28, 2008 at 8:16 PM
This is what they are using to destroy the bunkers that the
“innocent civilians ” of Hamas built to store weapons and wage war aginst Israel.
Notice the importance of “precision” strikes unlike the 3000 rockets launched randomly by the “innocent civilians” of Hamas on civilian populations that are outright war crimes.
IAF uses new US-supplied smart bomb
By YAAKOV KATZ
http://www.jpost.com/
I support Israel 100% on this but I think this is going to fuel the Sadrist and anti-American crowd in Baghdad,possibly destabilizing the fragile political coalitions that have been built between the Shia,Sunni,Kurds,and the US:
Arab protesters demand response to Gaza
Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:25pm EST
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE4BR1J420081228?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews
By Aseel Kami and Sabah al-Bazee
Hopefully Maliki and the US will handle any uprising by the Sadrist and anti-Coalition factions with the same success that they handled Sadr and the Mahdi army in Basra.
Baxter Greene on December 28, 2008 at 8:22 PM
We are going to stay in this circle jerk until we start killing the leadership. These kinds of responses do nothing in the long run. How do I know this? Just look at the last 40 years.
Kill the leadership, early and often, and this stuff will end.
patrick neid on December 28, 2008 at 8:25 PM
Kill the leadership, the radicals and convert the population to Christianity or atheism and impose secular democracy. Rinse and repeat in all muslim countries.
That is the only way to achieve lasting peace, by eliminating the civilization-destroying disease of Islam. Otherwise this problem will not end and only get worse.
This was an amusing little tidbit from Fox News:
LOL
thinkagain on December 28, 2008 at 8:41 PM
Wonderful news for Hamas and all the Mohammedans of brave little Gaza!
She comes to light the darkness!
http://www.freegaza.org/index.php?module=latest_news&id=e060e9316ba931b0a86fe47234d777f3
BL@KBIRD on December 28, 2008 at 8:57 PM
Actually, you would have to kill the children. The leaders become heroes when killed. The link in the chain that needs to be broken is the upcoming generation of brainwashed zealots. Just sayin’.
Killing the leaders would help, because they are the ones who brainwash the next generation…and the parents are the ones who allow and encourage the behavior…so they gotta go…Fuck it, might as well kill them all.
S/
Itchee Dryback on December 28, 2008 at 9:20 PM
Great post! All of it. I just highlighted the important parts that you pointed out about our Country having the same people populating here. I guess some people think it is a joke and not a problem. I on the other hand believe it is not a joke. And American’s need to be more aware. Not the Liberal’s. They could care less. They think they can negotiate with the sicko’s. Was 9/11 just a one time deal? Guess some don’t even give 9/11 a thought any more. It happened once, and it will happen again. We just don’t know what they will use or do next time. You pointed out some important information. Thank you.
sheebe on December 28, 2008 at 9:29 PM
No…actually it is not!
Violence is never acceptable according to Christ.
Turn the other cheek.
Love your enemies and pray for them.
That does not translate as “kill your enemies”, and there is no possible way that you could honestly claim that it does.
You can take that position if you want…but in no possible way can you claim that it is a Christian position.
It is an anti-Christian position and it is sin.
You cannot call yourself a Christian if you knowingly support killing.
The Christian position is and always has been,(even if you are forced to fight in the army), to not kill anyone even if it means you will die as a martyr.
No. What did Christ do when St. Peter used the sword on the guard?
He rebuked him and told him to put away his sword and healed the one whom he injured.
The person who commanded his followers to use the sword(whose position you are adopting) is not Christ but mohammed!
Mohammed was a heretic and an antichrist(though that doesn’t necessarily mean that all muslims are…many muslims have just been raised in islam and don’t know any different…many of them are far more devout than most so called Christians in America and Europe)
SaintOlaf on December 28, 2008 at 9:40 PM
Many of these muslims who have been raised in islam(the ones you lunatics want to murder) would gladly and willingly convert to Christianity if they heard about it.
Dude you are one sick lunatic.
People like you should be locked up far far away from society. You’re a danger to yourself and all those around you.
SaintOlaf on December 28, 2008 at 9:44 PM
What’s worse Olaf? Conervatives on this board will not condemn those kinds of comments. But please don’t call anyone a racist. Being grossed out by people who propose killing children and genocide is just a little too P.C.
DeathToMediaHacks on December 28, 2008 at 9:51 PM
Yeah, they are highly dangerous, brainwashed zombies who can’t think for themselves.
They openly advocate killing innocent children and have ZERO respect for human life.
And then in the next breath call me a RACIST!!!! because I say violence is wrong and point out that the isaraelis are killing innocent children.
SaintOlaf on December 28, 2008 at 10:01 PM
Olaf, you are truly a moron.
Even the anti-American/anti-semetic AP have reported that virtually all of the 200 killed were members of Hamas, not “innocent civilians”
Israel has no choice but to finish off Hamas (you know, that terrorist organization, cousing to Hezbollah…which should be next)
More power to them
seanrobins on December 28, 2008 at 10:07 PM
I don’t know what racism has to do with it….
Anti-semitism, perhaps…
I see you’ve now moved on to “innocent children”
No matter whose rockets kill any truly innocent Palestinian civilians (not the 200….) their blood is on the hands of the Hamas cowards who place rocket installations into civilian neighborhoods. And when the civilians put up with it, they only get what Hamas has destined for them….
seanrobins on December 28, 2008 at 10:09 PM
You must have missed the bolded S/ and the end of my post.
Its obvious by your recent posts that you can’t handle the truth and would rather live in the land of psychological wind and ghosts.
There is help for your malady, but you must first seek it out. Think of it as a quest for truth.
Itchee Dryback on December 28, 2008 at 10:09 PM
Am Yisrael chai!
And the Hamas scum that have been killed are not children, but the Jewish kids in Sderot who have been purposefully targetted by Hamas are.
If you allow a Qassam rocket launcher targetting Jewish families in Sderot next to your kids school, then its your damn fault when the hell comes.
I’ve never seen such a collection of crap on this site in all the time that I’ve been posting here.
TexasJew on December 28, 2008 at 10:10 PM
Perhaps they are…..
With Hamas’ destruction in Gaza underway…… when the obliteration of Iran’s nuclear program comes in the not too distant future, it will not seem so out of the blue, or such a shocking step. One thing at a time.
Ahmadinnawhackjob…. you’re next!
seanrobins on December 28, 2008 at 10:14 PM
To use an old saying: If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas….
Well, if you let terrorists set up their launch pads in your neighborhood (and praise them for doing so), then you just might not get up at all.
seanrobins on December 28, 2008 at 10:16 PM
I have not called you a racist! A idiot, and a Islamic fascist. But not a racist. So, Hamas didn’t kill children in Israel? You are saying that didn’t happen? On your post above, you state that if you teach a Muslim Christianity they would convert. That they never heard of it. You are a real idiot! They have heard of it. I might believe your non sense if this was years back. Get real. A zombie? You are the kool-aid drinking zombie. You say one thing and then turn around and say another. Actually, your points are not even facts. Admit that you hate Jews. Seems like it to me after reading your non sense. In wars it is sad that children get killed. what the Fu*k do you expect? That happens. Doesn’t make anyone happy. It is a fact and a act of war. You say that it is propaganda. What a friggin joke! The media is the ones that are telling us crap. They are building up Hamas. Just shows us what scum the Media has become and has been for years. You are just living in pitty potty. A pretend world that fits your mind. That is not what life is about. It can be very ugly. That is just a fact!
sheebe on December 28, 2008 at 10:20 PM
In this situation both sides are wrong in their murderous tactics(even though you refuse to acknowledge the hebrews are wrong in their murderous tactics).
And BOTH SIDES are enemies of ours.
The Zionists hate Christians
The Muslims hate Christians
Why should we support either side?
The obvious and correct position would be to stay out of it entirely.
If we did that we would build a lot of good will with a large portion of the world and actually be living out the conservative positions that the RNC was founded on.
You murderous warmongering neocons have destroyed the RNC permanently and have nearly destroyed this country.
SaintOlaf on December 28, 2008 at 10:21 PM
In this situation both sides are wrong in their murderous tactics(even though you refuse to acknowledge the hebrews are wrong in their murderous tactics).
And BOTH SIDES are enemies of ours.
The Zionists hate Christians
The Muslims hate Christians
Why should we support either side?
The obvious and correct position would be to stay out of it entirely.
If we did that we would build a lot of good will with a large portion of the world and actually be living out the conservative positions that the RNC was founded on.
You murderous warmongering neocons have destroyed the RNC permanently and have nearly destroyed this country.
SaintOlaf on December 28, 2008 at 10:21 PM
sheebe on December 28, 2008 at 10:24 PM
He was probably referring to me…I baited him and he bit. I’m sorry, I just wanted to make him/her twitch uncontrollably and start ranting. Kinda trolly, but it seemed he deserved to have his/her blood pressure percolated up just for general purposes. I won’t do it anymore. I promise.
But really….you would have to….nevermind.
Itchee Dryback on December 28, 2008 at 10:33 PM
I messed up, sorry about the double post. Ok, S/O Now in a way you are making a little bit of sense. Yes, we should stay out of Israel’s business. Let them fight for themselves. Because The One will not back them when he takes office. They have been fighting for years and it will not end. I would rather have the Zionists then the Muslims any day. The Zionists are not Christians but they do not hate us. This is the part that won’t work. You are dreaming if you think the RNC is going to cow down and make nice with Muslims. That won’t work. Who cares about the large portion of the world? I only care about our Country. That is the problem here. We worry to much about other Countries and then let the biggest heist happen here from our Politicians. How did we destroy our Country? that is a crack pot statement. What ever drug you are on, must be a good drug. Conservatives don’t kiss ass. That is the job of the Liberal’s. I am not a war monger, I believe in rights. When a terrorist country shoots missiles in my back yard. Killing two school kids and injuring two. Then that is when Israel needs to start defending themselves. That is all. It is about time. Israel has tried to play nice with those scum bags. And tried to adhere by what that idiot Condi Rice had worked out with them. It won’t work. Israel didn’t break the cease fire agreement. They put up with a few thousand rockets. Now they had enough. Just like I have had about enough of you idiocy.
sheebe on December 28, 2008 at 10:33 PM
SaintOlaf, a few questions for you, if I may:
I agree that they didn’t kill ‘all’ non Muslims. However, how do you think those ‘majority’ Christian nations came to be ruled by Muslims. Are those countries still majority Christian today, and if not why not? Same question concerning countries where some non-Christian belief system was dominant. Do you really think that a country like India with its sophisticated Sanscrit and Buddhist traditions willingly yielded to Islam? What about Lebanon? Do you really think anybody who knew Jesus the Christ would deny him for a share in Mohammad’s infernal orgy?
Islam spreads principally by violence. The only people who could possibly have accepted Islam because it offered them a better philoshophy and morality are people whose culture was straining not to fall off the bottom end of humanity. In other words, the barbarians of Arabia … and Islam hasn’t exactly improved even them much has it? After 1400 years they are still barely managing not to fall-off the bottom end of humanity.
Bearing in mind that you are arguing theologically, what is worse: Muslim parents encouraging and teaching their children to follow Mohammed into hell, or Israelis killing them. Biblically speaking there are no innocent children (No-one is righteous, not one; all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. ) but if we assume for a moment that you are correct and that these children really are innocent then the Israelis have done them a big favour since they will be welcomed directly to heaven. What is so bad about that?
YiZhangZhe on December 28, 2008 at 10:35 PM
You did nothing wrong. I saw the S. No worries. He has been on a high horse since last night. I think it is a he. Not sure.
sheebe on December 28, 2008 at 10:35 PM
Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with the way Catholicism “spread” into Central and South America. I’ll give you a hint, it wasn’t with the olive branch.
DeathToMediaHacks on December 28, 2008 at 10:40 PM
Sort of related to the points you made.
http://www.ninevehsoft.com/fiorina.htm
Itchee Dryback on December 28, 2008 at 10:45 PM
Sorry, another question, SaintOlaf … if you have time.
Not turning-the-other-cheek leads to you killing their ‘innocent’ children. On the other hand, turning-the-other-cheek leads to them killing somebody else’s ‘innocent’ children. Maybe yours, maybe your neighbour’s.
So taking action leads to the death of child A and not acting leads to the death of child B. Is A more valuable than B?
Alternatively perhaps the Muslims won’t actually kill the children but will persuade them to follow the ways of Mohammed, the murderous lying thief of Arabia, thus condemning those children to hell.
Furthermore not acting is possibly a failure to protect the widows and orphans and also a failure to contend earnestly for the truth.
These are real moral dilemas, experienced by every Christian in times of violent conflict. How do you reconcile them?
YiZhangZhe on December 28, 2008 at 10:47 PM
Just fixing my own bad.
YiZhangZhe on December 28, 2008 at 11:22 PM
Because one side isn’t bothering us much and the other is blowing up our skyscrapers and cutting the heads off of our people on TV?
Just a guess.
Venusian Visitor on December 28, 2008 at 11:24 PM
Why is that?
If you willingly surrender to them why would they continue killing your children?
Obviously the only right thing to do is follow Christ’s commandment and turn your other cheek.
Christ’s kingdom is not of this world.
We will always be ruled on this earth by some other group whether it’s anti-Christian Zionists or anti-Christian Muslims.
(And no don’t fool yourselves into thinking that Zionists are not anti-Christian…
He who denies Christ is of the anti-Christ spirit..
Go to Jerusalem and preach Christ…they will stone you and persecute you.
It is a fact that the zionists have been persecuting Christians for 2,000 years and continue to do so to this day!!)
We can’t allow ourselves to stoop to their level,fall into sin and risk our eternal life for earthly gain.
No.
Christians are not allowed to go to war.
If you are forced to by the government, you are expected to not kill another person, even if it means your death as a martyr.
The fact is most American Protestants, fear martyrdom worse than anything else(as evidenced by their statemnets on this thread) when in fact martyrdom is one of the highest goals that a Christian can attain to.
Of course Christian martyrdom is completely different than the muslims twisted version of martyrdom…
Christian martyrdom is: I will die for my beliefs.
Islamic martyrdom is: YOU will die for my beliefs.
SaintOlaf on December 28, 2008 at 11:34 PM
More of that selective amnesia.
Civil War Lincoln Republican.
WWI Woodrow Wilson Democrat.
WWII-President FDR Democrat.
Korean War President Truman Democrat.
Vietnam War President Johnson Democrat.
Gulf War President Bush Sr. Republican.
Bosnian War President Clinton Democrat.
War on Terror (Iraq/Afghanistan) Bush Jr. Republican.
The body counts under the democrats far exceed the Wars under Republican leadership.
Your “warmonger”statement is as idiotic and baseless as all of your posts defending terrorist like Hamas.
You keep whining about “civilian”casualties.
The world is waiting for such super smart people like yourself to reveal how we can defeat our enemies without
“civilian” casualties.
Surely you would not be so stupid as to whine and complain about something you have no solutions to.
Baxter Greene on December 28, 2008 at 11:46 PM
Meanwhile in the middle of the night (so as to avoid civilian casualties) the IDF has bombed the Islamic University Gaza, a site well known even by the self-loathing NYT as a “Hamas stronghold” and historically a place of kidnapping and arms storage.
Hey here’s another Chicago link – Rep. Kirk and the Gaza Fulbrights Wouldn’t it be interesting if there is a special election and he wins Obama’s vacant seat?
batterup on December 28, 2008 at 11:46 PM
this is a serious lie. you cannot quote scripture that says this…and remember this is the same Christ who killed 185,000 assyrians who came to attack israel…and who judge all of us, and throw people into hell.
you are not talking about the Jesus of the bible, rather some made-up ‘jesus’ in your, or your church’s image.
Jesus told the disciples to get a sword…what do you think you do with a sword??? hmmm?? butter bread?? please.
another lie. Romans 13 explicity gives the power of death to the state to punish evildoers.
what god do you serve? surely it is NOT the God of the bible.
right4life on December 28, 2008 at 11:51 PM
this is insane. you just throw out the right to self-defense. and allow the innocent to die because you’re too damned cowardly to defend yourself. this is not christianity, but a hellish lie. you should be ashamed of yourself. when you do not act to prevent an evil…then you share in the sin. it is despicable behavior not to act to prevent a child, or another innocent, from being harmed by an act of evil.
again you lie about scripture. the first gentile convert was Cornelius…A ROMAN CENTURION…not known for being nice people…and he was NOT asked to leave the service of the Roman Legions..and they weren’t exactly known for being a group of boy scouts now were they??
you cannot point to any time a soldier was asked to leave the service in scripture, or anyone was told not to fight in a war, or serve in a war.
you are twisting scripture. its really sickening.
right4life on December 28, 2008 at 11:56 PM
Hamas isn’t Al-Qaeda though and know Palestinians, as far as I know, were involved in 9/11. How exactly are they “our” enemy. Who is us? And why does this one foreign nation, Isreal, have such a HUGE effect on our budget in terms of military aid and our foreign policy. Please don’t call me an anti-semite, that seems to happen whenever you ask basic questions about our odd relationship with Isreal. I also just…don’t accept that the holocaust is reason enough for Isreal to call upon us to support them in every possible way. We didn’t perpetrate the holocaust. Other mass genocides have occured before and after the holocaust, all horrible. Why are we so guilted out over this one that we HAVE to support them?
DeathToMediaHacks on December 28, 2008 at 11:58 PM
there are NO CIVILIANS. WWII should have taught everyone that very well…and when we don’t fight total war…we don’t have total victory…we just kick the can down the road…
anyone who thinks there are ‘civilians’ in this war, should look at 9/11….
right4life on December 28, 2008 at 11:59 PM
ever hear of the enemy of our enemy is our friend??
right4life on December 29, 2008 at 12:00 AM
and if anyone thinks the palestinians, who danced in the street on 9/11, or hamas, or hizbullah, or syria, or iran, or the saudis, or any other muslims are our friends…
I have a bridge to sell ya.
right4life on December 29, 2008 at 12:03 AM
But why are Palestinians our enemy?
DeathToMediaHacks on December 29, 2008 at 12:03 AM
Here is what we are fighting against and Olaf is defending.
Bless the Beasts and Children
Where did they go?
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/bless-the-beasts-and-children.htm
There were bodies of men, women and children. Al Qaeda slaughters families everywhere:
Hugs,kisses and flashing the peace sign is not going to stop these monsters.
They will have to be stopped the same way the Nazis were
stopped.They have to be struck down with force until
they can fight no more.
Baxter Greene on December 29, 2008 at 12:04 AM
Here is what we are fighting against and Olaf is defending.
Bless the Beasts and Children
Where did they go?
(from Micheal Yon online magazine)
There were bodies of men, women and children. Al Qaeda slaughters families everywhere:
Hugs,kisses and flashing the peace sign is not going to stop these monsters.
They will have to be stopped the same way the Nazis were
stopped.They have to be struck down with force until
they can fight no more.
Baxter Greene on December 29, 2008 at 12:05 AM
Oh there’s no question Palestinians don’t like us. No doubt because they see U.S.A printed on the missles that explode in their territories from Isreal. But dislike = military enemy now because the French might be next on our list. Palestinians have never attacked the U.S. They weren’t involve in 9/11 and there isn’t an Al-Qaeda stronghold in Palestinian territories. Their beef is with Isreal, fairly or unfairly, but they’ve never targette us. So again, why are they our enemy. Vs just not being our friend.
And would you support a foreign policy that toppled the regimes in Saudi Arabia, Syria AND Iran because..yeah we barely were able to orchestrate regime change and occupation in ONE country. Let alone 3.
DeathToMediaHacks on December 29, 2008 at 12:07 AM
Demonizing the opposition has sub-human on the other hand, totally works. Just ask the Nazis. They perfected it.
DeathToMediaHacks on December 29, 2008 at 12:08 AM
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