Geez, I don’t know how we get so far off track with each other, but that’s a good post AprilOrbit. You’re beliefs are not much different from mine.

I still admit to strong feelings about what the man said while my unit was actually deployed, but I’m not out calling for every soldier I know to mutiny. I simply choose to retire and not serve under him. The topic comes up from young soldiers and NCOs in my unit about what I think and I hold back. That does not insulate you from the opinion of others that you work with though. My comments above were observations in general about what the majority of peple here think about him.

All that aside, I am seriously looking for “sames” not “differences” from those of us that think the country is headed in the wrong direction now. I’m a Conservative Republican but I’m working with Libertarians and Independents in some small projects to iron stuff out. I will talk and work with anyone to build those alliances.

hawkdriver on December 30, 2008 at 6:55 PM

I am a cancer survivor, believe me a near-death experience will snap you out of the sour grapes – blame everybody – nasty pettiness real fast.

Once it happens – you get it – you see things quite differently. That’s been my personal experience and that makes me react the way I do.

kanda on December 30, 2008 at 7:17 PM

Ditto for me.

AprilOrit on December 30, 2008 at 7:43 PM

And thanks for paying your taxes. It’s not a bad living.

(wink)

Great! remember what I told you before about how I feel about you and the others protecting America. You folks are the best we ever had and we are proud of all of you.

kanda on December 30, 2008 at 7:17 PM

Ditto for me.

hawkdriver on December 30, 2008 at 7:00 PM

Great! remember what I told you before about how I feel about you and the others protecting America. You folks are the best we ever had and we are proud of all of you.

Phil Byler on December 30, 2008 at 7:02 PM

Gosh Phil I tookthe subway so many times from Penn station to WTC I love that place. I used to work at 1 Liberty and 2 Penn Plaza. I know what happened and I forgive you for being a little cranky. I’ve been known to feel like that way from time to time myself. Great knowing things are better tonight.
I agree we need to work on restoring our party to greatness.

hawkdriver on December 30, 2008 at 6:55 PM

Good deal!

kanda on December 30, 2008 at 6:52 PM

Er, I agree.

I am just going to close by saying it ended up being a pleasure with you both AprilOrbit and kanda, and I’ll just remind myself that blogs are not the best forum trying to divine intent about what someone is saying.

I really do look forward to reading what you guys believe we can do.

AprilOrit on December 30, 2008 at 6:39 PM

Geez, I don’t know how we get so far off track with each other, but that’s a good post AprilOrbit. You’re beliefs are not much different from mine.

I still admit to strong feelings about what the man said while my unit was actually deployed, but I’m not out calling for every soldier I know to mutiny. I simply choose to retire and not serve under him. The topic comes up from young soldiers and NCOs in my unit about what I think and I hold back. That does not insulate you from the opinion of others that you work with though. My comments above were observations in general about what the majority of peple here think about him.

All that aside, I am seriously looking for “sames” not “differences” from those of us that think the country is headed in the wrong direction now. I’m a Conservative Republican but I’m working with Libertarians and Independents in some small projects to iron stuff out. I will talk and work with anyone to build those alliances.

And I’m just wondering what specifically we Social Conservatives do that put us squarely in the loon category? What specifically makes me Far-Right? I guess my abortion stance is okay. But what would put me over the top as far as a core political belief in your book? What do I believe, that will ruin The Party?

hawkdriver on December 30, 2008 at 6:28 PM

I understand and appreciate your candor. I don’t think your belief will ruin our party. Far from it. You opinions on some issues may be different than mine but I like understanding and considering them. If I thought you were going extreme I’d let you know at that time how I felt and discuss it. There is a lot of gray in politics. Thats why its called politics. Not all things are black and white. It’s a serious game and we all have to learn how to play within its rules.

I am sorry to say I never considered you far right to begin with. I don’t know enough about your positions to be able to make a determination. I can tell you how I personally perceive your positions when they become known to me.

Right now I feel you are just as disillusioned as we all seem to be by the Democrats winning the Presidency and both houses of Congress. That is a danger to our value system. The weak economy could be our saviour in the sense they can’t afford to do the extreme damage they thought they would. It has moved Obama straight to the center already and Pelosi and Reed don’t matter as long as he is there. That’s only good thru his first term if he gets reelected he’ll do what he wants.

I can’t express how disappointed I am that we did not nominate a real conservative for the top of the ticket. It firms up my resolve to make sure starting in 2010 our candidate are conservative. Believe me that will take alot of work on our part. We had better start now to make our voices heard.

From your recent posts I see that you feel my writing style is shocking. If it got your attention it achieved the intended purpose. Now that I have your undivided attention maybe we can determine some possible resolutions to issues.

lol, You know, I’m happy to see that we have similar political beliefs. I think I’ve solved the riddle though of what was the friction point between our posts early on. You don’t see yourself as a little condescending, do you? We all kid and jab a little here, but I’m not your student and you certainly won’t have my undivided attention while you’re trying to talk down to me. If you’re truly desiring dialog with a fellow Conservative Republican who is worried about the party. Let’s go. But if you’re just taking some misguided pleasure out of exchanging comments to folks you consider your lesser, then count me out. I’ll look forward to your posts in the future. I hope we can be more civil.

Okay, I’ll start. I believe in my heart abortion on demand with no limits is far-”left” loonery. Does that make me a right-wing loon?

hawkdriver on December 30, 2008 at 4:24 PM

Absolutely not. I was commenting on the people here who believe Obama was not born here, or stole the election, or they believe he is a Muslim. Or they just want to cast stones before the guy even has a chance, i.e. the whole Blago thing.

It’s so negative, but they don’t see that at all.

That’s Far Right loonery – smear merchant doings. Kind of the same as how The Left Wing smear merchants believed all kinds of craziness about Bush and put it out there like the 9/11 Truth Movement etc.

I wasn’t talking about abortion or gun rights at all. I am referring to tin foil hat issues that are based on conspiracies and conjecture, and just that real partisan nastiness that we endured from The Left for the last 8 years. There are many on The Right who want to get even and do the same.

Now personally I am not a social Conservative so there we may have some differences. In other words if you want to read or watch porno – I could care less. Or if you do or don’t want to say Merry Christmas – who cares. The whole evolution/creationism should be a choice – not forced on anyone. I believe govt should be so small that social issues should not even be legislated at all.

These Far Right types seem to be very stubborn and are not neccesarily looking out for the good of the GOP as a whole. They are more interested in getting even with those they feel are obstructing their ability to do certain things that border on free speech vs hate speech.

In other words they could care less if the Party looks bad in the eyes of the general Moderate population, and this is a Moderate country – I mean we are fighting crazy Fundie types abroad and pleading with Moderate Muslims to step up to the plate to help us. Why foster that same behavior here in our own country from either side – Far Left or Far Right.

Bottom-line this kind of know-it-all attitude doesn’t work, it didn’t work – we lost.

It’s time to realign and try something more positive the way we used to be. Back in 2000 and 2004 the GOP made some excellent points about the Dems – all the Dems did was attack us or Bush, they never had a positive voice or a plan.

Now it seems we have allowed ourselves to assume this position and that’s not good. Newt Gingrinch is right – we need to find our voice again, somehow we lost it.

Is that really how you feel? I’m hoping you will try having a dialog with me. I personally wish you would but I can work with you on your terms either way.

kanda on December 30, 2008 at 5:55 PM

I didn’t think you were going to answer. I was waiting at work for a while then left and still didn’t see a response when I got home either. Look, I’ll be candid and maybe here is where we got off on the wrong foot. I get the impression that you have more distain for fellow Republicans than you do for Liberals. Especially, the “loons”.

BTW, I’m glad you did answer.

And I’m just wondering what specifically we Social Conservatives do that put us squarely in the loon category? What specifically makes me Far-Right? I guess my abortion stance is okay. But what would put me over the top as far as a core political belief in your book? What do I believe, that will ruin The Party?

No worries. Nothing to apologize for. Now, hawkdriver is stretching his hand out to you. Meet him so we can be hopeful.

Schadenfreude on December 30, 2008 at 4:08 PM

Thank you as a courtesy to you I’ll do my best to reach back.

Okay, I’ll ask again, what is your problem and why are you so insulting?

You said far right loons were going to ruin the party. What part of our beliefs do you consider far-right?

hawkdriver on December 30, 2008 at 4:16 PM

Okay thats much better now I see what you have in your craw. You think I meant all republicans are right wing loons or maybe you took it personally and thought I meant you. Fear not if I meant you I would have used your name.

First of all far right loons do damage our party just like the loons on the left damage theirs. When people espouse extreme irrational views it turns other people off perhaps even offends them. Do you think having extreme unbending positions on anything is more than a childish temper tantrum? Thats how it looks to me when people take the attitude of “its my way or the highway”.

I see my comment offended you. That was not my intent. I had not considered you to be a right wing loon. Do you consider yourself to be one? I hope not. I’d rather beat my head against a brick wall than argue with a loon of either extreme.

From your recent posts I see that you feel my writing style is shocking. If it got your attention it achieved the intended purpose. Now that I have your undivided attention maybe we can determine some possible resolutions to issues. For example Obama isn’t going away for at least 4 years like it or not we have that fact to live with. Our Obvious opportunity is what can WE do to get republicans elected in the next two elections.. Crying about obama isn’t going to help. It only wastes valuable time and resources arguing amongst ourselves while the Dems solidify their position.

I guess it’s easier to insult people.

hawkdriver on December 30, 2008 at 5:31 PM

Is that really how you feel? I’m hoping you will try having a dialog with me. I personally wish you would but I can work with you on your terms either way.

Okay, I’ll start. I believe in my heart abortion on demand with no limits is far-”left” loonery. Does that make me a right-wing loon?

hawkdriver on December 30, 2008 at 4:24 PM

No that belief does not make you a right wing loon. An example of a loon is someone who took the action of murdering abortion doctors or bombing abortion clinics. That would indicate a certain lunacy yes. No the Republicans should not be pro abortion. It is a core value for us to respect the life of the unborn.

As a side note….interestingly enough the courts are begining to charge people who murder pregnent women with double murder. Thats the 5th column against the pro abortion forces. Sooner or later that will make it to the supreme court.

Thats a fair question. Its time to get some dialog flowing to better understand our differences. I see so many posts that make little of no rational sense. People just belittiling one another without any facts or an at least semi-intelligent argument. I’m game if you are.

kanda on December 30, 2008 at 4:15 PM

Game on. What’s far right?

I read the platform long ago. I have no issues with it really. I think you are probably not as familiar with it as you should be so here is the GOP Platform for 2008. I linked to the values section. Once you get there you should click index to get the whole platform.

Okay, I’ll ask again, what is your problem and why are you so insulting?

You said far right loons were going to ruin the party. What part of our beliefs do you consider far-right?

But as a fellow Republican who is trying to save the party, why are you so confrontational to other Republicans? I asked above what positions do you consider Far-Right? Why don’t you take some time to answer that so you and I can see what we at least agree on as Republicans, rather than what we’re at odds about?

hawkdriver on December 30, 2008 at 3:50 PM

Thats a fair question. Its time to get some dialog flowing to better understand our differences. I see so many posts that make little of no rational sense. People just belittiling one another without any facts or an at least semi-intelligent argument. I’m game if you are.

Schadenfreude on December 30, 2008 at 3:33 PM

Happy to oblige.