The corrosion factor is HUGE here… and has always been the deciding factor concerning the use of salt. Clearing the roads this weekend with salt would give you maybe three days extra road surface, but start an unstoppable corrosion process on all of our raised roads.
Mr Michael on December 23, 2008 at 10:36 PM

How do you define “Huge” and “unstoppable corrosion” Can you reference any scientific studies to back your assertions?

This isn’t about being green vrs public safety, this is about the cities in the NW not wasting money on clearing snow that usually melts before the plows can finish clearing the main thoroughfares and morons who can’t figure how to get their Escalades into 4-wheel-drive thinking that they can drive safely on ice because Santa does it so well.

Seriously the NW gets snow like this once every 30 years or so. Here in Portland we have maybe a few inches of snow for a week once a year, usually it melts faster than it hits. It makes no sense for the city to invest in massive snow clearing equipment and deicing for the amount of snow we get. If people were smart and either stayed home, used public transport, or chained up it would be fine. The accidents are caused by morons who insist on going out in the weather. It is not the city government’s business to protect the local losers from their own bad driving and poor judgement.

If we had snow for weeks on end every year then sure, it would make sense to clear it. I agree with whoever above said that the “green” thing is mostly a cover to keep the perpetual whiners from whining that they can’t get their hybrid tin can out of the garage.

Here in Seattle we’ve declined the use of sand for much longer than that envirodweeb quoted in the article has had a job. (I agree… Chief Wiggums… really?) Since 1990 we’ve used liquid de-icer to clear the roads, as it is much less corrosive than pure salt. The corrosion factor is HUGE here… and has always been the deciding factor concerning the use of salt. Clearing the roads this weekend with salt would give you maybe three days extra road surface, but start an unstoppable corrosion process on all of our raised roads.
Mr Michael on December 23, 2008 at 10:36 PM

And yet the roads in MN and other states that use salt have managed not to disintegrate overnight. Salt does wash away- it’s not an “unstoppable” force of some sort.

Salt does tend to corrode vehicles in the long term, but that’s after very frequent and heavy use of salt. For the relatively few times Seattle gets measureable snowfall? Hardly an issue.

Better a car that rusts in 10 years than one wrecked in a crash after driving on icy roads.

Keep the salt out of the ocean and the carbon dioxide out of the air.

Jim Treacher on December 24, 2008 at 12:45 PM

I’ll drink to that with my alcohol-free, light beer!

Anyone for a fat-free Christmas cookie?

Their Detroit bashing gets monotonous and plenty of that is contrary to normative conservative thought. Example: wage and price controls are bad except when its US autoworkers being told by the gov’t that they make too much money (and, no, I’m not a fan of unions but the truth is the truth).
rokemronnie on December 24, 2008 at 1:04 AM

The Truth.

When people are paid NOT to work for years on end, there’s something seriously wrong.

I’ve previously told my stories about why I no longer buy American cars, but here’s an even more interesting one about why I drive a Mazda 3 rather than a Mazda 6. I go into the dealer, and tell the fleet manager I’d like to factory order (I always factory order) a Mazda 6. The guy says I have a Mazda 6 which exactly meets your specs right now on my lot, but No You Don’t Want A Mazda 6, you want a Mazda 3. I say Why? He says one out of every three Mazda 6′s he’s sold have been unhappy customer experiences, because each Mazda 6 brought back spends several weeks in the shop getting rebuilt to work properly. He has had No Problems With The Mazda 3 At All. I ask what the difference is between the vehicles — was the Mazda 6 badly designed or something? His response is that while the Mazda 3 is built in Hiroshima, the Mazda 6 is built in a Ford factory in Flat Rock, MI, by Union workers, and those workers are Just Not Capable of Delivering Quality. Given my experience with my strike-bound Ford Taurus, I immediately understood what the sales guy was saying. I ordered the Mazda 3 (which he did not have on the lot), and have been happily ever after.

Yes, I do think the guys at the Ford factory are overpaid, and by extension the guys at GM and Chrysler too. Wages are just one component in the price I pay for a car, and it’s an important one. If I could get the same quality of work from those overpaid union guys, I’d probably look the other way and even Buy American, but those guys in Hiroshima have something in their blood that the guys in Flat Rock, Michigan, don’t, and, until they figure out what it is and gene-splice it into the UAW guys at Flat Rock, I’m not about to approve using my tax dollars to guarantee the Flat Rock boys their jobs.

Brilliant!

When I was stationed in Fort Lewis a few years ago I got a chance to see what 2 inches of snow does to these weird northwest parts:

Snow cripples the northwest.

leetpriest on December 24, 2008 at 10:34 AM

Lee, no. Snow cripples the Californiac’s who move up and have no clue how to drive on “slick surfaces”. I did fine when it snowed in Seattle area, but then I have been driving on snow most of my life. Unlike those idiots, who would drive like a bat out of hell, even when raining and then wonder why they were in a accident on the side of the road.

They don’t want salt water running off into Puget Sound. It’s apparently so harmful to the environment that they’re willing to sacrifice a few drivers instead.

At least they are making their priorities known to those who think clearly.

Snow cripples the northwest.

The city’s approach means crews clear the roads enough for all-wheel and four-wheel-drive vehicles, or those with front-wheel drive cars as long as they are using chains, Wiggins said.

So the city[of Seattle]‘s approach is to encourage people to buy and drive SUV’s, which consume twice as much gasoline per mile as smaller cars. Won’t that increase emissions of carbon dioxide, as well as real pollutants like carbon MONoxide and nitrous oxides into their precious fresh air?

They also want people putting chains on their front tires for driving in snow and ice? Has anyone figured out how long it takes the average person to put chains on four tires trying to get to work in the morning, and to take them back off again once the snow melts?

Tire chains might be a necessary evil in mountainous areas that get tens of feet of snow per year. In urban areas with lots of traffic and a thin, temporary coating of ice or snow, they will beat lots of cracks into the road, and after rainwater seeps in, with lots of freezing/thawing cycles grow into numerous potholes, which can cause axle damage and traffic delays when construction companies fix them.

What’s wrong with letting a little salt run into an already salty Puget Sound?

I’ll take my icy roads with a grain of salt, rather than face bigger headaches down the road.

Isn’t that salt water?

…

Those evil corporations own the salt companies.

Johan Klaus on December 23, 2008 at 11:40 PM

And the salt companies are owned by Evil Genius(es) Dick Chaney and Karl Rove.