How to ensure weather-related traffic accidents
posted at 6:30 pm on December 23, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
I’ve lived in Minnesota for over 11 years, and one thing people get expert at in a hurry here is snow and traffic. This area has snow abatement down to a science, and they use all the tools at their disposal. We don’t turn up our noses at road salt, and we therefore make driving safer in the Twin Cities. Seattle apparently has other priorities (via Michelle):
To hear the city’s spin, Seattle’s road crews are making “great progress” in clearing the ice-caked streets.
But it turns out “plowed streets” in Seattle actually means “snow-packed,” as in there’s snow and ice left on major arterials by design.
“We’re trying to create a hard-packed surface,” said Alex Wiggins, chief of staff for the Seattle Department of Transportation. “It doesn’t look like anything you’d find in Chicago or New York.”
The city’s approach means crews clear the roads enough for all-wheel and four-wheel-drive vehicles, or those with front-wheel drive cars as long as they are using chains, Wiggins said.
And why do they leave a hard-packed surface? Seattle has abandoned the use of salt to clear snow:
The icy streets are the result of Seattle’s refusal to use salt, an effective ice-buster used by the state Department of Transportation and cities accustomed to dealing with heavy winter snows.
Why? They don’t want salt water running off into Puget Sound. It’s apparently so harmful to the environment that they’re willing to sacrifice a few drivers instead.
Here’s why we use salt, even in enviro-friendly Minnesota. When snow gets packed down onto roads, it turns to ice underneath, and even the best tires can’t find a purchase on it. Salt lowers the freezing temperature of water, allowing the ice to break apart and snow plows to pull it off the road. Gravel also helps, but gravel on ice doesn’t provide nearly enough traction by itself.
I drive on snow-packed roads all winter long when the plows haven’t made it through that road yet. It’s not fun, and even with a full-wheel drive vehicle like mine, spinouts are inevitable. Seattle has discovered the same thing:
“Sunday was full of car crashes, even after several pleas from State Patrol and local police to stay off the roads.
The State Patrol responded to 157 collisions Sunday in King County. …
Between noon and midnight on Saturday, the State Patrol responded to 246 collisions … in King County.”
I’m sorry, but that’s ludicrous. Many of those accidents might have been avoided had Seattle used well-tested and available snow abatement processes that included salt. Instead of begging people to stay home, maybe officials should stop trading the safety of its citizens for an opportunity to pat itself on the back for its environmental sensitivity.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: 1 2 Next »
To paraphrase the late, great, Sam Kenison. “It’s SNOW. It’s always gonna be SNOW.”
This is such a farce. People have dealt with snow for all of mankind’s history. The Press just needs something stupid to drum up and talk about so it can avoid the real issue like our disappearing bailout money, the crashing Stock Market, or the rise of Russia. Let’s talk about dead kids, let’s talk about the snow and how many deaths it has caused. Never mind the reality we all truly face.
cannonball on December 23, 2008 at 6:32 PM
Merry *explosion sound*
oooof
Drunk Report on December 23, 2008 at 6:33 PM
Yeah, Madison has been pursuing the same empty-headed street-clearing approach as Seattle. Along with the 911 debacles, Kathleen Falk is doing just a bang-up job.
Crashes are occurring like the plague, as well. The fun part is watching all the wannabe San Franciscans trying to drive their hybrids on these glacial paths they call roads, along with the hybrid metro buses, while I cruise by in my SUV.
MadisonConservative on December 23, 2008 at 6:34 PM
Morons … environmental extremism at work again. Everyone that had an accident should sue the city for every penny they have.
darwin on December 23, 2008 at 6:34 PM
F— ‘em. If the city is that stupid, f— the whole lot of them. Cull the herd of the moronic enviormentalist freaks.
KSgop on December 23, 2008 at 6:35 PM
Hmmmm … that might be acceptable to them. What better way to reduce your carbon footprint then offer yourself up for culling?
darwin on December 23, 2008 at 6:36 PM
This is hilarious! Or would be, were it not for the people who have to live there.
I’ve long since faced it: Environmentalists wish that human beings simply didn’t exist. This sort of thing hastens that end.
Alana on December 23, 2008 at 6:37 PM
This is the perfect microcosm of the liberal mind, or perhaps more accurately….the liberal brain.
notagool on December 23, 2008 at 6:39 PM
WTF is wrong with these people, they can’t deal effectively with a little blast of global warming? And, hullo, they could always use sea salt!
This must be why nobody but teh Californians move there . . .
califcon on December 23, 2008 at 6:42 PM
Someone beat me to the “cull the herd” line. heh heh
Sugar Land on December 23, 2008 at 6:44 PM
Yup, we wouldn’t want any salt running into the ocean (Puget Sound) now, would we? To make matters worse, they rely on sand… except they don’t put enough down to do the job. It seems the sand clogs the sewers it drains into. So, to recap, lots of money spent ineffectively with significant unintended consequences, all negative. Yup, sounds like environmentalism run amok!
Scotsman on December 23, 2008 at 6:44 PM
This is only HALF of the story. Seattle (METRO King County) has invested HEAVILY in articulated buses. They have been a disaster. We are days into this debacle and the articulated buses remain parked. They are worthless on packed snow and ice. Many, many bus routes have been canceled these past few days. My wife missed work because of it (she takes the bus). Public transportation is completely STALLED at this point.
CyberCipher on December 23, 2008 at 6:45 PM
There are restricted salt areas around the reservoirs here in PITAchusetts, but they use less salt, not none.
How many people in Seattle have snow chains??? And isn’t Puget Sound a salt water estuary?
oddball on December 23, 2008 at 6:45 PM
Out of curiosity, is there any legitimacy in their argument that salty runoff damages Puget Sound?
Or is this another case where people claim a harm that they assume is true (but it’s not)…like the poor ANWR caribou that will be harmed by drilling (except for the fact that they thrive around oil pipelines)?
JadeNYU on December 23, 2008 at 6:47 PM
Do not be so hard on the government. They did a great job of formulating ethanol fuel, pushing sub-prime credit, bailing out the auto industry………..
Johan Klaus on December 23, 2008 at 6:48 PM
Chief Wiggins? Really?
Stephen M on December 23, 2008 at 6:49 PM
There’s gotta be a better way than using friggin’ salt on the roads. I was shocked to discover that when I was in MA – and I only found out because I was shocked at how quickly every car up there was rusting.
I’d never even heard of the idea until I was over in the States last year.. Just how many other states use salt?
..Why not just drive your car into the ocean?
Reaps on December 23, 2008 at 6:49 PM
Isn’t Puget Sound filled with salt water?
Here in New Hampshire, we used to “pack the snow” like this. That was nearly a hundred years ago. Now we use a sand/salt mixture. Works quite well. Especially during ice storm conditions. Then the snowplows have to back down the hills, spreading the salt/sand mixture behind them as they creep along.
Del Dolemonte on December 23, 2008 at 6:50 PM
Actually … the environazi’s have a brilliant plan.
Trick everyone into thinking it’s hot because the earth is warming, then when they attempt to drive on snow and ice they don’t see because they’ve been told it’s hot, the environazi’s don’t salt the roads and cause horrific accidents killing a major portion of the population! Brilliant!
They’ll deal with the rest by cutting off all coal and oil to stave off any further warming. People will die huddled together wearing shorts and Hawaiian shirts with ten feet of snow outside their doors.
darwin on December 23, 2008 at 6:51 PM
Stupid, stupid, stupid. Ugh!
I’m lucky that I have a job where I work from home. I was in a bad accident a couple of years ago with my husband (I broke my sternum, and my knees are still messed up from it), and since then I can not drive in the snow without having a panic attack. With the amount of snow we had dumped on us this past weekend, there was no freakin’ way I was going to leave the house.
ScoopPC11 on December 23, 2008 at 6:51 PM
Maybe the legislators in Seattle should go a step further and stop using brake fluid.
Ronnie on December 23, 2008 at 6:52 PM
You know, I’ve studied the effects of salt on roadside vegetation, and it is pretty harmful, but we do things here in MN that actually minimizes that pretty well, and using sand instead creates such a mess, both in water drainage areas and on the roads, that the cost, environmentally and monetarily, is ridiculous. But to use lives as an acceptable cost is ricockulous.
tikijack on December 23, 2008 at 6:53 PM
Quite a few of them, I’d wager. Maine uses a sand/salt mix that works quite well. I fight the potential damage by running my car through a car wash with an underspray a couple of times each winter.
Slublog on December 23, 2008 at 6:54 PM
There are envorionmentally friendly ice melters, but they cost many times more per pound than salt.
Del Dolemonte on December 23, 2008 at 6:55 PM
Wait until the first dead child and subsequent lawsuit. And if that happens, I hope Seattle is NEVER allowed to forget it.
These lunatics have gone too far and should not be allowed to make decisions that affect people’s lives, including that they could end up dead as a result of those idiotic decisions. Yes, places use salt, but I’d rather deal with what I have to to slow damage to my car–eff, *driving* causes damage to a car–than put my or the life of my child at risk so a bunch of environmentalists can pat themselves on the back.
fireweednectar on December 23, 2008 at 6:59 PM
My city puts so much salt on the streets (even with only an inch or two of snow) that it splashes up and kills our lawns. And they dump out so much sand and gravel that the streets look like dirt roads until summer. What we need here isn’t more salt and sand but better, safer drivers who don’t drive with their heads buried in their descending colons. We have the worst drivers in America. Worst. Bar none.
whitetop on December 23, 2008 at 7:01 PM
They have no intention of culling themselves…they mean to cull you….
ScottG on December 23, 2008 at 7:02 PM
In Chicago they are claiming that they don’t have the money to pay for the salt or even for sufficient plowing due to the sagging economy. They make appeals to the press like we are supposed to understand but everybody knows that there is money for the 2016 Olympic games and there is always money for the corruption. It amazes me the lack of shame that our public officials have. God help us.
Merry Christmas Everybody!
jimboslice on December 23, 2008 at 7:05 PM
grdred944 on December 23, 2008 at 7:05 PM
This is no more than one should expect from the idiots occupying the Peoples Republic of King County and the greater Seattle area. I mean, really, isn’t this is the same state that allowed dumb-ass atheist signs along side the capitol’s Christmas displays.
rplat on December 23, 2008 at 7:08 PM
Salt and Sand baby,and lots of it,and up her in Northern
Ontario,the Twin Soo’s were getting it real good,and we
have lots of accidents as well!
We have the 9:00AM(go to work),12:00PM(lunch),and 5:00PM
(work’s over,rush home),and yes,us crazy Canadians think
we can get home,or do lunch in 5 minutes,with solid ice,
and a foot of snow on top of it!
But,after a few years of salt,though your vechicle doen’t
fair well!
canopfor on December 23, 2008 at 7:09 PM
I’m in Seattle, but I’m from Wisconsin. I’ve been driving a bit, and I’ve been doing all right – but, I’m careful.
What I want to say is that they are so concerned about the salmon or whatever, that they would create a scenario where two buses full of kids crashed through a barrier and nearly tumbled to I-5 below (driver error no doubt played a role there, also, but…) – is that a good trade off?
Someone close to me is a higher-level scientist at the U.S. Department of Fisheries. He is directly involved in determining what substances are permitted for use in this country, based on their impact on various species of fish. I’m going to ask him what he thinks about this.
I’m just going to guess he’ll tell me morons are running Seattle.
capitalist piglet on December 23, 2008 at 7:10 PM
Best way to limit damage to your car. Get some rope and strap an environmentalist to the bumper.
Afterwards, hose of the paint and grab another.
kurtzz3 on December 23, 2008 at 7:12 PM
Dave Ross said today he was trying to take the S.L.U.T. (South Lake Union Trolley for people not from here…and yes, there are t-shirts that say “Ride The…”), and it wasn’t running either. They have stuff on TRACKS they are not running.
capitalist piglet on December 23, 2008 at 7:14 PM
I grew up in New England, in the 60s, and they salted the living crap out of everything when it snowed. Car undercarriage rots out a little faster? Lawn doesn’t look as pretty in the spring? Still alive, are ya?
I am soooooo glad to be old and not have to spend my entire adult life in what the United States of America has become at this point. How freakin’ sad is that?
califcon on December 23, 2008 at 7:15 PM
While I do think it’s silly… let’s look at it in perspective. Seattle’s annual snow fall is 13 inches… Half of NY’s average, less than a third of Boston’s. I doubt most snow lasts more than a couple of days. It’s not like the City Council of Sault Ste Marie (average snowfall of 117+ inches) went “saltless”.
That said, when I read the bit about rubber plow blades, I have to admit that my first reaction was that their plows have ‘erectile dysfunction’. I kind of think it’s a good idea to scrape to pavement… especially when your police cruisers are rear wheel drive…
darkpixel on December 23, 2008 at 7:16 PM
Seattle gets snow so infrequently, a quarter inch shuts almost everything down. With how much they got this year, their usual non-salt methods aren’t working.
Washington STATE does use salt on the roads, so there is salt run off into Puget Sound from everywhere BUT Seattle. Add in that it is very infrequent, and it’s ludicrous to think the environmental impact outweighs the safety factor.
Here in Oregon, where I live, nobody is allowed to use salt. So, the largest city in the state is shut down, chains required but not good enough on the hilly major streets. Huge sections of town are off limits to trucks because even with chains the roads are too bad to make it through.
True, Portland got more snow than it has in 40 years, but the no salt thing is ridiculous. It’s not like we get snow all winter and have to put it on over and over again. Oregon snow is usually a few days here and a few days there without needing salting because it’s melted away by 40 degree temps and rain within 48 hours. But our oh-so-foresighted environmental wackos didn’t make an exception for a storm where we have snow or freezing rain falling continuously for 14 days now.
We don’t expect to be able to travel to Portland to work at one of my branches up there until next week!
PastorJon on December 23, 2008 at 7:17 PM
You know the usual suspects would be squacking if any business traded injuries or deaths in a similar fashion.
aikidoka on December 23, 2008 at 7:17 PM
Neat thing about all those cable channels is you get to learn things, like where most road salt comes from.
It comes from a salt plant that uses, uh, sea water. Yep. Seattle thinks that putting sea salt back into the ocean is environmentally unsound.
Meryl Yourish on December 23, 2008 at 7:20 PM
If your in a Province or State and have nasty winter,
you should have a 4×4 or,
posi-traction rearend(GM)
sure-grip(Chrysler)
Detriot Locker(Ford),
would also help!:)
canopfor on December 23, 2008 at 7:20 PM
When I was young and poor, and I had my first car that had “lived” in Wisconsin out here in Washington, the floor rusted and you could see the road under your feet as you drove.
It was kind of cool.
It snows this much so rarely here (most of the time it might be one or two days, then it’s gone, and there’s much less of it), you’d think they could bend their rules for extraordinary circumstances. The local merchants must be suffering, honestly – this is just the worst time for this to happen.
capitalist piglet on December 23, 2008 at 7:20 PM
Oh crap,thats up here in,not up her in Northern!Ugh!
canopfor on December 23, 2008 at 7:23 PM
What are the odds that this policy will get changed when shown to be a failure? Liberals are not known for correcting mistakes. This sort of thinking will probably spread to the rest of the country.
zmdavid on December 23, 2008 at 7:25 PM
Seems to me the environmental impact of having road salt run into the salt-water of Puget Sound would be less than the impact of replacing buses like these:
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Seattle-Bus-Crash/ss/events/us/122008seattlebuscras#photoViewer=/081219/480/df4065127ea044a58d7ec924f0f59b97
pedestrian on December 23, 2008 at 7:27 PM
Puget Sound receives Seattle’s run-off.
‘Sound’ is a fancy word for a huge bay.
Puget Sound is a bay of the Pacific Ocean.
The nobs running Seattle to a stand-still are worried about contaminating the freaking OCEAN with salt.
Portland is inland about 70 miles inland, where the Willamette flows into into the Columbia. Fresh water fish inhabit both rivers… but a little salt wouldn’t really have that much of an effect because of the size and flow rates of the rivers.
In any case, both Puget Sound and the lower Columbia/Willamette drainage have taken vastly greater amounts of contaminants from the occasional volcanic eruption in the nearby Cascade Mountains.
We really aren’t such a big deal, environment-wise in comparison.
Scribbler on December 23, 2008 at 7:27 PM
I agree, capitalist piglet. It’s a “30-year” storm occurrence. And, just this once, they can’t protect their populace by putting some damn salt on the roads? It’s just so crazy . . .
califcon on December 23, 2008 at 7:28 PM
Dear Seattle:
How about this: We here in the San Francisco Bay area produce a lot of salt from simple evaporation of water in summer. We “harvest” the salt in the fall and have mountains of if. All of this salt came naturally from the Pacific ocean. You could buy some of this salt to spread on your roads and keep your citizens safe. Then, when it rains, this natural sea salt will go right back into the ocean it came from.
I can understand why you wouldn’t want nasty “foreign” salt ending up in your sea water, so how about some “native” Pacific salt?
crosspatch on December 23, 2008 at 7:29 PM
Most thinking people here in New Hampshire run their cars thru the under-carriage car wash once a week in the winter. Our state car inspection laws don’t allow for much rust, so we have to keep at it.
Del Dolemonte on December 23, 2008 at 7:30 PM
I wonder if SarahCuda gets around on snowmachine
in Alaska when the weather really gets bad,maybe
if upinak is on the net,we can get an answer!
When the I-500 race takes place in Soo,Michigan,
they allow snowmachines to be driven on the streets,
now thats awesome!:)
canopfor on December 23, 2008 at 7:30 PM
I don’t what kind of buses Trimet has, but they should have kept them in the garage. They’ve been spinning out like crazy down here in the Portland metro area!
Depending on where you are, the roads should be fine below 500′ by this weekend. However, we are going to have more of that stupid white stuff tomorrow, so I would check the local news before coming up here.
I’m from the South where it rarely snows. I never, ever thought I would wish for a rainy Christmas!
kakypat on December 23, 2008 at 7:35 PM
Hey Ed look on the bright side. If enough of them get killed in traffic collisions, we might well purge the gene pool of less desirable elements.
GarandFan on December 23, 2008 at 7:37 PM
Heh…given the current state of the Willamette River a little salt just might help it. ;o)
kakypat on December 23, 2008 at 7:37 PM
What, no collie today?
Count to 10 on December 23, 2008 at 7:41 PM
They tried the “no salt” approach around here too, a couple years ago. We’re back to salt now.
JetBoy on December 23, 2008 at 7:41 PM
Anyway, speaking of cold weather, I thought Maryland was supposed to be warm. I’m in Baltimore, within walking distance of the fricking bay, and it is so cold here that it hurts to breath! I grew up in the Sierra foothills at 1500 ft, and it never got this cold.
Count to 10 on December 23, 2008 at 7:46 PM
I thought the same thing.
Andrew D on December 23, 2008 at 7:46 PM
What’s a few dozen dead motorists in comparison to letting salt water contaminate ocean habitats for whale and plankton. And good luck filtering out the acid rain and other pollutants washing in from China. But don’t be dissuaded by compromise proposals like salting the roads with SEA SALT. Comrade, no achievement is greater than saving the environment, and the loss of human life is a small price to pay in accomplishing it.
Mark30339 on December 23, 2008 at 7:48 PM
I live in Oregon. We have these cold snaps occasionally. But the enviro’s have taken what should be an inconvenience and turned it into a disaster.
The decision not to use salt on the roads was made by Democrats controlled by the enviro-nuts several years ago. The excuse is that the salt might harm the grass growing along the roads.
When I was a kid, which admitedly was a long time ago, the road dept where I live used to save the used engine oil from servicing their vehicles to spray on the ditches to keep the weeds down.
Now we can’t use anything. But the sand and gravel that they put on the packed snow and ice does enhance the view as you are spinning down hill in your car. Instead of the montonous white and green we can watch the white, green and brown spinning by until the tree stops you.
We have been complaining about the “no salt” for years. But here in Oregon the enviro’s rule.
schmuck281 on December 23, 2008 at 7:50 PM
What? Couple of thoughts: How thick is too thick, like you can’t drive semis under bridges anymore!? What about volcanic ash; I somehow recall Mt. St. Helens erupting spectacularly in my lifetime!? How can salt trucks during the winter season compare to decades of volcanic ash fallout?
ericdijon on December 23, 2008 at 7:54 PM
That’s for the reminder not to move that far West.
T J Green on December 23, 2008 at 7:58 PM
Ed, um Seattle highways and freeways are made with concrete, not aspahlt. One of the reasons you really shouldn’t use salt…. you use it on concrete in a large crowd, it turns into a skating rink.
Wanna play bumper cars?
upinak on December 23, 2008 at 7:58 PM
Volcanic ash is OK because it’s natural. Salt is made by big, evil corporations.
zmdavid on December 23, 2008 at 8:01 PM
upinak: The freeways are actually clear, and the driving is good. It’s getting there that is so treacherous. Do you happen to know the composition of our streets?
capitalist piglet on December 23, 2008 at 8:04 PM
No Ash is not ok. It is 1000 times more corrosive then salt due to sulferic acid in the ash and rock. Besides, have you ever taken volcanic ash and put it on the paint on your car and try to wipe it off with your hand? Good luck in not scratching the crap out of the paint!
upinak on December 23, 2008 at 8:05 PM
I live @9000 ft. in the Rockies in a little town infested with tree-huggin’, granola grindin’, bong smokin’ hippies, and there would be hell to pay if the road crews didn’t use the sand and chloride mix. We are in the midst of some of the best fly-fishing in the world and the streams are not affected in the least. If I lived in Seattle and I was in an accident due to the neglect of the highway crews to do what was prudent there would be hell to pay from me and my lawyer. I do have studded snow tires on the Suburban though.
thomasaur on December 23, 2008 at 8:06 PM
I know quite a bit about them. I use to work for Peterbilt in the industrial area down by safeco, years ago. I would have the Seattle/King County D.O.T. bring their repavers in for engine refurbishing (Cat engines) and they would tell me how the Army Corps had to help due to the drainage issues and what the streets (main highways) were made of and what the deal with the weird grooves in the highways and freeways were for. In some areas of Seattle/Tacoma, it has recycled tires. Neat idea I think.
upinak on December 23, 2008 at 8:08 PM
Salt is a mineral and is mined.
thomasaur on December 23, 2008 at 8:09 PM
California’s highways are concrete as well, though only the ones in the mountains have problems with ice. I’m curious as to why it makes a difference whether it is concrete or asphalt. Is it the albedo?
Count to 10 on December 23, 2008 at 8:10 PM
Mined? Why? Its just lying all around in Utah.
Count to 10 on December 23, 2008 at 8:11 PM
I guess sarcasm can’t just be implied.
zmdavid on December 23, 2008 at 8:12 PM
Salt is a mineral and is mined.
thomasaur on December 23, 2008 at 8:09 PM
Teh inconvenient scientific proof shall heretofore be blasphemy and shall be punished as such.
califcon on December 23, 2008 at 8:13 PM
Okay, mined, scraped up off of the ground, which ever is easier. O/T I grew up outside of Sac., where in the foothills are you from?
thomasaur on December 23, 2008 at 8:14 PM
As concrete is more or less re-built rock, asphalt is oil. And rock heats up slower then oil.
Asphalt can be nasty if a large amount of snow is in the road… but the warm tires and engines melt it quick enough it is on asphalt. Unlikes concrete… which is a pain to clean, and putting salt on it makes it slick as snot when it warms up. Unlike aphalt that absorbs the salt.
upinak on December 23, 2008 at 8:14 PM
Outlaw volcanoes. NOW!
hillbillyjim on December 23, 2008 at 8:14 PM
My bad, enviro-stools drive me nuts.
thomasaur on December 23, 2008 at 8:16 PM
California’s highways are concrete as well, though only the ones in the mountains have problems with ice. I’m curious as to why it makes a difference whether it is concrete or asphalt. Is it the albedo?
I’m no paving scientist, but I believe the difference is that asphalt is a fairly elastic substance and never attains the rigidity of cured concrete. That’s why expansion joints are so crucial in any concrete construction.
califcon on December 23, 2008 at 8:17 PM
Moving from Minnesota to the southern midwest was absolutely horrific. My boss has just adapted to the fact that if it snows (or ices, which is much more common), I dial in to work.
They do use salt here, but they don’t start plowing until it stops snowing. How insane is that?!
Tanya on December 23, 2008 at 8:21 PM
I read that the real reason they were not using salt was because it was 4 times more expensive. I guess in the lib’s mind it is cheaper to bring all commerce to a screeching halt instead? Wait till the lawsuits start piling up. Idiots!
Conservalicious on December 23, 2008 at 8:21 PM
Amen. I grew up in Colorado (what town are you in… Dillon?) and I now live on the Washington coast. We got 18″ of snow with 5′ drifts. The county doesn’t use salt, and the last I saw of their snow removal equipment, it was sliding down the hill, all wheels locked up, the plow thrown down as far as it could go to stop the plunge.
Look. the ocean is about 300′ away. And I’m pretty sure the ocean has salt in it. If I took a bunch of salt and salted my road, no one would notice in about a week. Even the salmon.
It’s just too friggin’ retarded. People are getting crunched left and right in Seattle, and the ocean is blocks away.
Salt. It’s what’s for dinner.
If my county is that far gone, I can only imagine what those Seattle drivers are putting up with.
wccawa on December 23, 2008 at 8:24 PM
I suppose you’re right. God Incorporated is evil, or so some wish me to believe (or do they wish me to disbelieve?) I live pert near to a big honkin natural salt basin called Grand Saline here in Texas. Under our breath, we curse the salt and pray that Morton Salt hurries the f up and drags it all out of there. I think those bastages sell it as a food condiment or to farmers for some useless cattle feed supplement or for use down-hole in oil wells for some further counterproductive act of maliciousness. Some say the pharmaceutical cretins use it as well. (You can get Kosher salt too!) If Morton picks up the pace by a factor of 100, they may have it all cleared out in 1000 years.
There’s nothing natural about salt in my book. Cover the whole dang salt pit with volcanic ash. That’s the best idea. Ash is fertile. And you know the Romans used it as cement. Just mix it with some water and wham, you’ve got arches and coliseums that survive centuries of excessive carbon emissions. What footprint is the bigger deal now?
ericdijon on December 23, 2008 at 8:25 PM
I still find this story hard to believe. Maybe not wanting to pollute the ocean with salt is just an excuse and they really blew the salt budget on Christmas lights for their Lenin statue or something.
zmdavid on December 23, 2008 at 8:26 PM
There is this little town called Shingle Springs, population around 2000, on highway 50. I have heard that it was once the most populous town in California (gold rush).
Count to 10 on December 23, 2008 at 8:27 PM
As it is with Seattle it also is with Portland. Best I can figure is that it is some kind of religious tenant of The Church of the Elites of those cities. Kind of like with Islam except with salt instead of dogs.
MB4 on December 23, 2008 at 8:28 PM
I.e. Minnesota has two seasons.. Winter and the Forth of July..
DaveC on December 23, 2008 at 8:30 PM
Not really true from what I have seen. Not on any hills anyway. All-wheel or four-wheel-drive or not, no chains, no ticky up the hill.
MB4 on December 23, 2008 at 8:31 PM
Here’s my math, this is a once in a decade+ storm. The roads generally clear the same day the snow falls during a normal year in the Seattle area.
While salting roads in North Dakota, Montana, or Minnesota makes sense, the normal accumulation of Ice in the Puget Sound area is nil.
This isn’t a typical snowstorm for Seattle, nor is it a typical year. All of your Minnesota experience is moot. Even if Seattle salted it’s roads, this storm would have overwhelmed whatever stocks they would have.
Comparing snow removal policies in the Puget Sound area with anyplace other than northern Florida is basically meaningless.
Rode Werk on December 23, 2008 at 8:32 PM
I was going to say “WTF” but this is just funny:
Count to 10 on December 23, 2008 at 8:34 PM
Best. Laugh. Of. The. Day! Kudos, wccawa!
califcon on December 23, 2008 at 8:40 PM
Crested Butte,
My sister said God lives here, but I told her that He just has a second home. ; )
thomasaur on December 23, 2008 at 8:45 PM
OK, salt is mined by big, evil corporations.
Pelayo on December 23, 2008 at 8:51 PM
Shingle Springs used to be a nice little town, built some homes there in the 80′s. The Gold Country is beautiful, I have a sister that lives in San Andreas and lots of friends in El Dorado,Placer San Andreas and Tuolumne Counties.
thomasaur on December 23, 2008 at 8:54 PM
It’s developed a lot since I’ve lived there.
Count to 10 on December 23, 2008 at 9:07 PM
Oh to be a trial lawyer for some dead drivers in Seattle with a clueless administration like this, big paydays are a sure thing.
eaglewingz08 on December 23, 2008 at 9:11 PM
Federalism at its finest! Killing babies is OK in Oregon, but let’s not let any fish get hurt. Why don’t the rest of us get to vote for local values like that?
Serve ‘em right if the Supreme Court makes ‘em all use salt.
Venusian Visitor on December 23, 2008 at 9:31 PM
How ’bout “stop driving like a Jacka**”? That’ll help in the stoppage of traffic accidents. (sorry, just a tiny bit pissed off from last night – apparently a Impala is really hard to see…. several times)
Seriously salt, gravel, something on the road for traction. Our roads are frigging ice rinks without something on them…..
mjk on December 23, 2008 at 9:44 PM
I just love watching ‘tarded urbanites trying to survive a whoppin’ by Mother Nature. Bunch of wussies…
Wyznowski on December 23, 2008 at 10:12 PM
A couple of hours down the road, here in Portland, we’ve got it pretty bad too. The entire city has practically been shut down for about a week, all over maybe two feet of snow. The morons don’t salt the roads, but go over the snow with plows. This just coats the roads with hard-packed snow while piling several feet of filthy snow on the sidewalks. People’s cars are buried and it’s impossible to walk anywhere. To drive, you need to put these damned snow chains on your wheels and drive at half the speed limit.
I’m from Michigan, and I went to college in Minnesota. Every year we’d get tons more snow than this, and somehow it didn’t manage to cause a state of emergency.
At least the Northwest liberals are getting a cold slap in the face to their global warming premise.
Sign of the Dollar on December 23, 2008 at 10:12 PM
At the moment, he’s outside, making yellow snow.
We had all four seasons where I grew up, viz.
1) Early winter,
2) Mid-winter,
3) Late winter, and
4) Road construction.
CyberCipher on December 23, 2008 at 10:16 PM
It’s a necessary evil. If you live in a place that gets several months of snow and ice every year, you’re going to need to clear the roads.
In Seattle, there’s not even a real sacrifice. They hardly get any major snowfall at all. I lived there for a year and we didn’t get a flake all winter. Using road salt a couple of days every few years isn’t going to rust anybody’s car.
And what do you want cars to last forever for, anyway? That’s one of the reasons GM and Chrysler are going to shake us down!
Sign of the Dollar on December 23, 2008 at 10:19 PM
Comment pages: 1 2 Next »