ddrintn on December 25, 2008 at 12:47 AM

I believe he could have done better with a different choice and could have fared the crisis as well.

Different opinions, no big deal, have a great holiday and a safe New Years Eve, if you are going out to celebrate. :)

Regarding her – had McCain chosen someone else he would have held on to the Independents. That so called base she sttracts isn’t enough to win, because that so called base hated him anyway. Many of them never even bothered to vote. But the Independents, Libertarians and the cross over Dems who were just so not sure about Obama – McCain could have had them beofre the crisis, along with the women and may have held on to them.

She’s like scrapple, she has a very limited appeal factor.

AprilOrit on December 25, 2008 at 12:43 AM

McCain led in the polls before the crisis, because of Palin. ‘Nuff said.

Just a couple of OT points: if you ever thought that McCain could have beaten Obama without someone like Palin, you’re deluding yourself. He trailed in the polls consistently until she was chosen, whether you personally hate her or not. Secondly, after the financial “crisis” and McCain’s reaction to it, not Palin’s, McCain was doomed. That was what beat McCain, as well as his wishy-washy campaigning. Blaming it on Palin (she’s stupid, she’s too divisive, she’s “uninformed”, she blew the stupid Couric interview) is just a convenient cheap shot promulgated by those who “just didn’t like her”.

ddrintn on December 25, 2008 at 12:17 AM

I disagree about her, I will give you the economy and McCain’s silly gesture of suspending his campaign – Dick Morris is right about that one.

Regarding her – had McCain chosen someone else he would have held on to the Independents. That so called base she sttracts isn’t enough to win, because that so called base hated him anyway. Many of them never even bothered to vote. But the Independents, Libertarians and the cross over Dems who were just so not sure about Obama – McCain could have had them beofre the crisis, along with the women and may have held on to them.

She’s like scrapple, she has a very limited appeal factor.

Obama was neither here nor there to me, I wasn’t supporting him and at one point I posted about Hillary being a larger threat actually. Mainly because so many Republicans temporarily lost their minds and were supporting her. I really thought Obama would be easier to beat, and then John choose Palin and my parents became very concerned, as Rudy did and other prominent Republicans – in real life here in NY.

Then I got scared.

AprilOrit on December 25, 2008 at 12:07 AM

Just a couple of OT points: if you ever thought that McCain could have beaten Obama without someone like Palin, you’re deluding yourself. He trailed in the polls consistently until she was chosen, whether you personally hate her or not. Secondly, after the financial “crisis” and McCain’s reaction to it, not Palin’s, McCain was doomed. That was what beat McCain, as well as his wishy-washy campaigning. Blaming it on Palin (she’s stupid, she’s too divisive, she’s “uninformed”, she blew the stupid Couric interview) is just a convenient cheap shot promulgated by those who “just didn’t like her”.

I just believe she is not all what she appears cracked up to be.

Let’s just say I am skeptical, but I supported the ticket because I vote R down the line.

Obama was neither here nor there to me, I wasn’t supporting him and at one point I posted about Hillary being a larger threat actually. Mainly because so many Republicans temporarily lost their minds and were supporting her. I really thought Obama would be easier to beat, and then John choose Palin and my parents became very concerned, as Rudy did and other prominent Republicans – in real life here in NY.

Then I got scared.

For someone who insists on facts, you certainly appear to let your personal feelings color what you perceive to be facts. Palin is a megalomaniac? How do ya figure? I don’t get that impression from Palin as much as I do from Obama. But that’s neither here nor there. I’m not putting words in your mouth; I’m just following the string here. You take offense if someone infers that Obama, coming from the Chicago political scene, is maybe somewhat likely to have engaged in activities that are unethical at best. Those who do that don’t particularly like Obama, the way you don’t particularly like Palin. Get as outraged over all misrepresentations, includuing those of Sarah Palin. That’s the point.

ddrintn on December 24, 2008 at 11:32 PM

I never said anything about Chicago at all in any of my posts. But since you brought it up – Ill and Alaska are both extremely corrupt. Then my state NY follows along with NJ.

That’s not Palin’s fault. That’s one of two things: swallowing whole the swill the MSM dish up, or looking for any convenient cover to support Obama. “My oh my, I was going to support Kerry in 2004 but gosh, that stupid Edwards guy he chose as VP just changed my mind completely and I became a Bush supporter.” Yeah, like I’d believe someone who told me that.

ddrintn on December 24, 2008 at 11:37 PM

I supported and voted for John McCain, even though I didn’t like her. One thing I didn’t do however – is blame her for my sister and my brother. I couldn’t actually.

If you check the older threads here or ask some of the older posters they will tell you that I posted about them jumpimg ship long before she was even mentioned.

They supported Obama for their own reasons, I didn’t argue with them over it, but it was odd and hard to digest, especially with my twin brother. It was the first time our family didn’t all vote Republican.

Neither are my cup of tea but my twin brother and my older sister jumped the family ship and supported Obama, joined the campaign, pissed off my grandmother and my parents.

That’s not Palin’s fault. That’s one of two things: swallowing whole the swill the MSM dish up, or looking for any convenient cover to support Obama. “My oh my, I was going to support Kerry in 2004 but gosh, that stupid Edwards guy he chose as VP just changed my mind completely and I became a Bush supporter.” Yeah, like I’d believe someone who told me that.

Again, you so want to put those words into my mouth, stop. I never said he was clean. What I said was I do not have enough info to make an opinion on this particular incident.

I do not like Obama or Palin. I would have preferred McCain not have picked her. By choosing her he gave the election to Obama. She’s one of those candidates with a very short and typical draw. She attracted the usuals who fell for her simple brand of megalomania.

…
AprilOrit on December 24, 2008 at 11:22 PM

For someone who insists on facts, you certainly appear to let your personal feelings color what you perceive to be facts. Palin is a megalomaniac? How do ya figure? I don’t get that impression from Palin as much as I do from Obama. But that’s neither here nor there. I’m not putting words in your mouth; I’m just following the string here. You take offense if someone infers that Obama, coming from the Chicago political scene, is maybe somewhat likely to have engaged in activities that are unethical at best. Those who do that don’t particularly like Obama, the way you don’t particularly like Palin. Get as outraged over all misrepresentations, includuing those of Sarah Palin. That’s the point.

I don’t get it. You just said we have no proof that Obama has done anything wrong. Obama would obviously have to be “cleaner”, wouldn’t he?

ddrintn on December 24, 2008 at 10:31 PM

Again, you so want to put those words into my mouth, stop. I never said he was clean. What I said was I do not have enough info to make an opinion on this particular incident.

I do not like Obama or Palin. I would have preferred McCain not have picked her. By choosing her he gave the election to Obama. She’s one of those candidates with a very short and typical draw. She attracted the usuals who fell for her simple brand of megalomania.

She an Obama are actually – personality wise – very similar and again very standard.

Neither are my cup of tea but my twin brother and my older sister jumped the family ship and supported Obama, joined the campaign, pissed off my grandmother and my parents.

If you go back and listen to both of their stump speeches – it’s the same crap over and over again.

He sounds like an Aticus Finch character and she sounds like the Wizard of Oz as he’s opening the bag to disperse the awards.

Tell me something, though, AprilOrit. Which do you think is more ethically “clean”: Palin or Obama?

ddrintn on December 24, 2008 at 6:09 PM

Neither.

AprilOrit on December 24, 2008 at 7:56 PM

I don’t get it. You just said we have no proof that Obama has done anything wrong. Obama would obviously have to be “cleaner”, wouldn’t he?

Tell me something, though, AprilOrit. Which do you think is more ethically “clean”: Palin or Obama?

ddrintn on December 24, 2008 at 6:09 PM

Neither.

AprilOrit on December 24, 2008 at 7:56 PM

BZZZT BZZZT BZZZT – DANGER WILL ROBINSON.. SHAPE CHANGING LEFTISTS HAVE INFILTRATED THE BOARD.. DANGER DANGER DANGER.

OK April.. maybe we need a little ad hominum or ad womanum.

Anyway, if you answered the question above the way you did, then I have to say that you are either

1. Grossly ill informed
2. Someone who has Obama signs and stickers plastered all over your lawn and Prius.
3. Easily susceptible to Erickson Hypnosis
4. Making a few bucks on the side by trolling. (Sarah Palin makes a few bucks on the side by trolling for Salmon, which IMHO, is a lot more honest)

Sorry, there is no comparison between the real corruption of obama and the media circus garbage directed at Palin

Final Question, Please rate the Obama-Rezko on the following scale (I beleive this is a fair question)

1. Nothing to see, move along, all was ethical and legal
2. Perhaps not illegal but probably unethical
3. Illegal as hell and unethical as hell and Obama should be in jail for it.

BTW – our I don’t believe our buddy Tom Shipley ever answered this one.. Feel free to chime in tom.

So what was said and who has said anything illegal in those conversations?

You are only assuming and throwing out your opinion of what you assume has happened.

AprilOrit on December 24, 2008 at 4:48 PM

uh-huh… couldn’t answer it, couldya?

I’m not throwing out an opinion, it’s a fact. Blago negotiated with the leadership of the DNC to fill the senate seat. That’s what Blago says ON THE TAPE. That’s, de-facto, the Obama Administration or Howard Dean.. but Dean has all but resigned from the position in lieu of Obama and I’ve not heard Dean’s name bandied about and besides, Obama’s administration HAS talked to Blago about it after Obama himself said his Administration had 0, nada, zip, NO CONTACT.

Not opinions. Facts.

I don’t care about Obama’s birth certificate, I don’t suffer from ODS or any one of a dozen other things you and Tom seem to like to make personal attacks from in lieu of actual, reasoned, debate.

Now go back and read where I said it all depends on how you define “bad behavior”.

You’re excusing one’s bad behavior because you don’t think it IS bad behavior. This isn’t a lynching on Karl Rove. This isn’t attacking Bush for war crimes. This is a President-Elect’s administration who FACTUALLY was in negotiations to graft for a senate seat and the media is giving it a pass because it’s THE ONE doing it.

Or perhaps you’d like us to… move on?

Skywise on December 24, 2008 at 9:19 AM

And again – you have no proof of that, you are slandering him just like The Left slandered Bush and Rove.

You are a part of the problem Solution.

AprilOrit on December 24, 2008 at 1:00 PM

FIFY.. Skywise is just trying to do the job that the ‘american’ media refuses to do..

Tell me something, though, AprilOrit. Which do you think is more ethically “clean”: Palin or Obama?

ddrintn on December 24, 2008 at 6:09 PM

Neither.

You are so angry and so sure something illegal or inappropriate must have happened, it’s just boggeles me that you have no proof yet – but who cares.

Can’t you hear yourself? Don’t you get it – that you are acting just like the Far Left smear merchants who felt it was all good because they were interfering in the right-leaning march that Bush and Cheney were allegedly leading this country down?

Just like the birth certificate fiasco – you stand to look incredible and silly if there were no crimes committed by Obama’s people.

What it boils down to is exactly what David Horowitz said – you guys suffer from Obama Derangement Syndrome and you are bitter and angry because McCain lost and you will jump on anything you can grasp on to, even if you have to spin the tale yourself.

AprilOrit on December 24, 2008 at 5:32 PM

You seem so bitter and angry that you hear things people haven’t really said. I never said Obama is guilty of anything. I said I DON’T KNOW. YOU DON’T KNOW. TOM_SHIPLEY DOESN’T KNOW. I’ve never said a thing about Obama’s birth certificate, beyond the fact that (like his college record and other documents) he seems to be gripping onto pretty tightly.

My “type”? “Detrimental” in the sense that we’re interfering in the leftward march? Golly, AprilOrit, I don’t see why you just don’t become a Democrat (assuming you’re not one now). By the way, I’m not “Far Right”. The way terms like that are thrown around willy-nilly renders them useless.

ddrintn on December 24, 2008 at 4:50 PM

You are so angry and so sure something illegal or inappropriate must have happened, it’s just boggeles me that you have no proof yet – but who cares.

Can’t you hear yourself? Don’t you get it – that you are acting just like the Far Left smear merchants who felt it was all good because they were interfering in the right-leaning march that Bush and Cheney were allegedly leading this country down?

Just like the birth certificate fiasco – you stand to look incredible and silly if there were no crimes committed by Obama’s people.

What it boils down to is exactly what David Horowitz said – you guys suffer from Obama Derangement Syndrome and you are bitter and angry because McCain lost and you will jump on anything you can grasp on to, even if you have to spin the tale yourself.

Hmmm, With conservatives, it’s “guilty until proven innocent”. No, not with all Conservatives, only with the Far Right unbendable judgemental loons who live in the land of fringe and conjecture.

Most reasonable Americans believe that all people are innocent until proven guilty.

Your type as the face of Conservatism and the GOP is a detriment.

My “type”? “Detrimental” in the sense that we’re interfering in the leftward march? Golly, AprilOrit, I don’t see why you just don’t become a Democrat (assuming you’re not one now). By the way, I’m not “Far Right”. The way terms like that are thrown around willy-nilly renders them useless.

Who WAS Blago dealing with if not the Obama administration then.

You tell me that and I’ll shut up.

Skywise on December 24, 2008 at 4:19 PM

So what was said and who has said anything illegal in those conversations?

You are only assuming and throwing out your opinion of what you assume has happened.

No you don’t. You do not have any valid proof of any wrongdoing by anyone other than Blago.
AprilOrit on December 24, 2008 at 3:56 PM

Who WAS Blago dealing with if not the Obama administration then.

You tell me that and I’ll shut up.

A lot depends on your definition of “forward”.

Look, here’s the problem, simply put. With conservatives, it’s “guilty until proven innocent”. With liberals, it’s “innocent until proven guilty”. Even more: it’s “if there’s anything that remotely looks incriminating, we must bend over backward to explain it away”.

How many still believe Sarah Palin did something criminal in that ridiculous “Troopergate” crap?

ddrintn on December 24, 2008 at 3:21 PM

Hmmm, With conservatives, it’s “guilty until proven innocent”. No, not with all Conservatives, only with the Far Right unbendable judgemental loons who live in the land of fringe and conjecture.

Most reasonable Americans believe that all people are innocent until proven guilty.

Your type as the face of Conservatism and the GOP is a detriment.

Yes I do.

Obama (last week): “My administration has had no contact with the Governor of Illinois regarding the Senate slot”
Obama’s report (this week): Rahm Emanuel discussed the Senate seat slot with Blagojevich several times. (But we didn’t do anything illegal).

The facts here are that the Obama Administration WAS negotiating with Blagojevich. Maybe not for that kind of direct compensation but for some type of graft and then LIED (yes, Virginia, LIED) about it.

Skywise on December 24, 2008 at 1:54 PM

No you don’t. You do not have any valid proof of any wrongdoing by anyone other than Blago. You can keep on wishing and hoping and insinuating and throwing that crap up against the wall to see what sticks, knock yourself out. And then you can join the birth certificate alumni and all bitch together ’til doomsday.

I’ll pass.

I think – when people listen to this kind of constant back and forth dribble – it divides the country unneccesarily and we never move forward.

AprilOrit on December 24, 2008 at 2:30 AM

A lot depends on your definition of “forward”.

Look, here’s the problem, simply put. With conservatives, it’s “guilty until proven innocent”. With liberals, it’s “innocent until proven guilty”. Even more: it’s “if there’s anything that remotely looks incriminating, we must bend over backward to explain it away”.

How many still believe Sarah Palin did something criminal in that ridiculous “Troopergate” crap?