Ultimate heart-ache: Michelle dumps on atheists
posted at 1:57 pm on December 18, 2008 by Allahpundit
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But affectionately. Sort of. Except for her suggestion that believers treat them like “trolls.” Heh.
I think she’s referring specifically to the sort of jackassery going on at the capitol in Washington, of which neither I nor the other conservative atheist/agnostics I read are fans. But just in case not, I take comfort in knowing that I’ll always have Ayaan.
Exit question: Um, what exactly is Gretchen saying here? Christianity’s going to disappear unless we … take away atheists’ First Amendment rights?
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Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 4:38 PM
Fear is the path to the dark side.
Fear leads to anger.
Anger leads to hate.
Hate leads to suffering.
.
.
.
Stay and help you I will.
.
subbottomfeeder on December 18, 2008 at 4:38 PM
Actually, I prefer this.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 4:38 PM
You know, I am getting responses, but I don’t see evidence that they have been at all thought out.
Count to 10 on December 18, 2008 at 4:39 PM
I think we agree on this issue as perfectly as people with clearly different inner-workings can. I prefer to live my life for my own sake, therefore I perceive sacrifice to others to be utterly miserable.
Sign of the Dollar on December 18, 2008 at 4:39 PM
Awwwwww, cannot get your ship out.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 4:39 PM
I agree, Atheists would probably put “God” in quotes. That’s about it, maybe get rid of “beauty”.
LevStrauss on December 18, 2008 at 4:39 PM
just an accurate description of the cult of darwin…to the darwiniac, evolution is all in all, praise darwin!!
oh nice dodge there…but then I knew you wouldn’t have answers…
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 4:40 PM
Nah. It’s just a theory. I don’t know why you’re so bent out of shape about it. It doesn’t preclude a god’s involvement. Maybe a god created everything, and we evolved from there?
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 4:40 PM
Personally, I don’t have any friends who are leftist-atheist frauds, why have friends that can’t be trusted and are incurably insane?
These “signs” are fraudulent, perpetrated by frauds who claim to want to celebrate “Winter Solstice”. Don’t these idiots know that Solstice is celebrated by Druids and Wiccans? So much for atheism.
As for the demand that Washington allow a “Festivus” display, don’t folks get that this is a slam against the atheists and the Governor of Washington?
nelsonknows on December 18, 2008 at 4:41 PM
I find your lack of belief…
…disturbing.
(I know, I know – it was used before, but it seemed like the best response here!)
Religious_Zealot on December 18, 2008 at 4:41 PM
all I see are ducks and dodges…truth hurts….
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 4:41 PM
Now that’s funny right there :)
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 4:41 PM
dawkins would find your lack of faith disturbing…
I’m not ‘bent out of shape’ I’m just pointing a few things out….
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 4:42 PM
Atheism doesn’t need a sign. Atheists like myself think vandalism is bad be it someone’s car or a place or a place of worship.
Pretty funny that Michelle thinks ridicule is suitable punishment for being atheist…. she is the little troll.
lexhamfox on December 18, 2008 at 4:42 PM
I’ve heard the name, but I’m not familiar.
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 4:43 PM
I haven’t time to go back and read the start of this dialogue so I may be out of line. But I’ll take a first crack at these definitions. I’ll start from the end of the list.
Belief: a held view that a thing is true, or is more probably true than not true. Example: I BELIEVE that chair will hold me, though I’ve never actually sat in it.
Faith: a BELIEF (see also) that a person holds strongly enough that he is willing to risk loss by his belief. This belief may or may not be based upon prior experience. Examples: “I have faith enough to sit in that chair, because it held me up yesterday, and Sam was just now sitting in it, and it has not collapsed yet”; or “I have faith enough to sit in that chair, because it looks very sturdy, and I was assured by its builder that the materials were very high quality.”
Religion: a system of beliefs, and practices based upon those beliefs, that guides a person in their moral choices. Religion may also include beliefs about the origins of life or the universe, and/or the afterlife, and/or paranormal or spiritual realities.
We practice a RELIGION to the extent that we have FAITH in the BELIEFS espoused by that religion.
It gets challenging when people reject certain tenets of the faith. For example, a great many people accept (what I regard as) the most crucial tenets of Christianity, but reject the creation account as a literal history. To the staunchest Biblical literalists, these people are heretics, not Christians at all. To others who adhere to more liberal epistemology, they are merely drawing the inescapable conclusion that, based upon observed science, THIS story, at least, must by allegorical. For specific Church organizations (i.e. denominations), there may be formal creeds that determine whether or not a person may call himself by that name; but “Christian”? There is no earthly authority who may decide which person is eligible to use the appellation.
(moving now away from your question to another subtopic that has appeared in this thread:)
This has caused Christians — and moreso Christ — immeasurable grief through the centuries, wherever it has been fashionable to be a Christian. The most nefarious evils have been cloaked under the name. “Bob’s Used Cars” puts out the IXTUS” (the Christian fish), reels in people who assume he is trustworthy because of his Christian symbol, and rips them off. Yet another reason Christianity has thrived not where it is accepted, but where it is shunned.
RegularJoe on December 18, 2008 at 4:44 PM
Intuitively it is difficult to look at a child and realize that not long ago each was a single cell. To believe that one cell can grow arms, legs and all other body parts, to see a child run around, think and speak seems (and is) miraculous. Still the study of embryology shows us how God makes each person.
It doesn’t seem any more difficult to think that human beings had origins in simpler life forms than to know that each person here today began as one cell.
dedalus on December 18, 2008 at 4:44 PM
Here’s what I don’t get. Antibiotics have been around for about 50 years. If you get two generations per hour (strep; e coli is faster), that’s 875,000 generations in 50 years. After that length of time we don’t see new species of bacteria, merely drug-resistant strains.
With hominids, it’s 3.3 million years from A. aferensis to us. If a hominid/human generation is 10 years (assume late human puberty is recent), that’s 330,000 generations. About half the number of generations, and yet we see not just speciation but a whole new genus.
I just don’t see how that makes sense.
skydaddy on December 18, 2008 at 4:45 PM
Do you really not see the way you are humiliating yourself here?
Or are you a troll pretending to be this obtuse just to make conservatives look bad? I mean, seriously, you and Olaf…
Count to 10 on December 18, 2008 at 4:45 PM
seriously? he’s the foremost apostle of evolution living today, since mayr and gould are dead.
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 4:46 PM
uh yeah sure, whatever. oh yes I’m ‘humiliated’ because I don’t bow at the alter of darwin…sigh…I think I’ll just end it all!!!
please.
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 4:47 PM
You’re conflating the development of an individual – who retains the same genetic makeup from conceptino to death – with massive genetic changes in whole populations. The example doesn’t examp.
skydaddy on December 18, 2008 at 4:47 PM
it doesn’t. but atheists have to hang onto it because the alternative is unthinkable (God)
of course there is also Haldane’s dilemma…
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 4:47 PM
Seriously. I don’t waste my life with that kinda stuff.
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 4:48 PM
I’m just sick and tired of everyone getting all up in my Kool-aid.
Leave my holidays alone.. Make your own blasted holidays. Quit screwing up everything that celebrates the differences between us as a society. These celebrations show just how magical this American Experiment really is.
The U.S. works because of all the different people, not in spite of them.
I’m sick of everyone cutting in on everyone’s holidays, clubs, etc. They need to get a life and create their own culture rather than trying to trample all over others.
The mixture of cultures anchored by shared basic morals and dreams are what make this country great.
We do not need to go to either extreme of only celebrating our holidays or only celebrating others holidays by forcing our culture in to them. We need to have some tolerance.
Chaotic Ramblings on December 18, 2008 at 4:49 PM
thats a big leap. since we have no clue about the mutations necessary to even make a bacteria into a multi-cellular animal….
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 4:49 PM
And Jabba was originally a fat guy in a fur coat
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 4:49 PM
Both. Save yourself some keystrokes.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 4:49 PM
Well, without Easter, Good Friday would have been the end. We don’t worship Jesus because he died but rather because he came back from death.
So, yes and no. Though, it is true that most Christians focus far more on the death.
Eh, no more than Mel Gibson. And I’m saying that as someone who thought Passion was a good movie.
Maybe it’s because I’m a Christian, but I just don’t look at the tree that way. It’s beautiful, and I love seeing them this time of year (and smelling them), but they hold no deeper meaning to me than the presents underneath them.
Ah, equal opportunity offenses. I prefer those.
I just think these atheists could have made their point without specifically attacking religion (saying it enslaves minds). Saying you’re confident God doesn’t exist is one thing but to impugn the motives of all religious people, specifically religious leaders, is just unnecessary.
Esthier on December 18, 2008 at 4:50 PM
he’s a very smart guy, no doubt. he’s a bit rabid, but not as bad as PZ Myer…he was in ‘expelled’ and made an unfortuante admission that ID was OK as long as aliens were the designers…
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 4:50 PM
The scale of the process is unfathomable to me too, but I don’t therefore make a mental leap to saying “well, the only possible explanation is a supernatural entity did it”.
The different strains of bacteria are as varied, relatively speaking, as the differences between homo erectus and homo sapien.
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 4:51 PM
I’m not conflating the science behind them–both of which came about recently in human history. I’m comparing the appeal to perception. From appearances both seem impossible to the intuition.
dedalus on December 18, 2008 at 4:52 PM
For me it’s just the opposite, the feeling I get when I look up at the stars and imagine the infinity of space and the birth of so many stars, planets, and speculate about whether life exists around any given star I look at, and whether or not a being on that planet has ever wondered the same about Earth—that is my religion, and the entire universe is my church. The more I understand how it all works the greater perspective of my place in the universe becomes.
FloatingRock on December 18, 2008 at 4:52 PM
If you’re going to define God as “higher intelligence or power,” then an advanced alien civilization qualifies, and I’d happily admit agnosticism. I think it’s fair to ask, before I answer this, how do you define God? Provisionally, I’d say that the commonly understood idea of god – e.g. the thousands of gods humankind has invented over the years – contradicts what we do know about the universe, which makes all those unanswered questions irrelevant.
RightOFLeft on December 18, 2008 at 4:53 PM
There is a cult-like quality to some ‘atheists’ that goes beyond reasonable doubt or scientific inquiry, far into the realm of a ‘religious’ unwillingness to debate. I find that creepy.
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 4:54 PM
Well, come on. Think about how pissed people were at the “There is no god, just be good for goodness’ sake” signs on buses. Outrage, outrage, outrage.
I’m not saying a lot of atheists aren’t antagonistic little skidmarks, but there are also a lot of easily offended Christians, just as there are a lot of easily offended atheists and antagonistic little Christians(right4life, for example).
Again, I just want everyone to stop demanding violins be played for them, be secure in their beliefs, and respect those of others. In the meantime, everyone shut up, drink some egg nog, and sing. If you are offended at any excuse to take off work, spend time with family or friends, and get drunk, you need a serious attitude adjustment.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 4:55 PM
Dude, you don’t know that in the Kitzmiller v. Dover case it was the admission that the Dover School Board equated ID with creationism that Judge Jones duly noted? And how that led to a decision that in no uncertain terms described so-called “Intelligent Design” as just another iteration of creationism, also known as GodDidIt? If the dimwits on the Dover School Board had designed a more intelligent case, they would have gone with little green men as the Designer!
starfleet_dude on December 18, 2008 at 4:56 PM
and the four fundamental forces are:
Gravity
Electromagnetism
Weak Interaction (or Weak Nuclear Force)
Strong Interaction (or Strong Nuclear Force)
and they operate on living things differently than non-living things?? how so?
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 4:56 PM
Well said that man
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 4:56 PM
As Esthier noted, the sign at the Illinois State Capitol read “Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.” It’s difficult to see that as anything other than an attack on religious folks.
For you Darwinists, Darwin is reputed to have answered a student’s question regarding where everything started with “Why God, of course.”
It’s also worth noting that Darwin’s primary supporters in the 19th century were Marx and Engels, followed historically by Hitler (Godwin’s Law rears its ugly head once again.)
warbaby on December 18, 2008 at 4:57 PM
You know what! I’ll vote for that! You are an atheist? You no longer have any rights in America! You don’t believe in the Creator of the Universe…fine…go live somewhere else! I like that…a lot! I’m going to start pushing that idea! Why not? The atheists have been stomping on my rights for years…it’s time to stomp back and this time I have God on my side!
sabbott on December 18, 2008 at 4:57 PM
very true.
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 4:57 PM
There are only two fundamental forces : hooters & boners.
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 4:58 PM
That book is on my reading list.
aengus on December 18, 2008 at 4:59 PM
Stopped clocks etc.
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 4:59 PM
You have a point. I think the term “god” has become kind of an all-purpose term for referring to figures that would demonstrate any higher knowledge, though specifically about humans, the universe, and the purpose of existence. Alien civilization may not necessarily count in that context.
I would note, though, that what we “know” about the universe is still based largely on extrapolation of models, not from actual empirical evidence (impossible by most standards) or from historical records. You must agree that it takes a certain amount of faith to be resolute in the idea of a “big bang”.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 4:59 PM
I’d like to think I’d be the same as you in that situation, but if somehow I were convinced beyond any doubt that any religion were in fact truth and that I would be guaranteed eternal damnation (endless suffering) if I didn’t make a few ritual gestures toward this god, I’d probably just fake it and hope I could fool him.
Sign of the Dollar on December 18, 2008 at 5:00 PM
Go Michelle.
That’s an overstatement. I suppose the ultimate question, however, is what God thinks is suitable punishment for being atheist.
Aronne on December 18, 2008 at 5:00 PM
Then you don’t belong in this country. Go found a theocracy.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 5:01 PM
The scale is perfectly fathomable. I know the difference between 1,000 and 10 million. I started out storing scores of files on 360K floppies, now I’m thinking about a terabyte drive. I understand scale.
But assuming that same process that results in the difference between, say, a wolf and schnauzer, is also responsible for the difference between, say, a slime mold and Richard Dawkins… that seems to be quite a mental leap in itself.
They why aren’t they classed as new species? H. erectus appeared less that two million years ago, so that’s only 180,000 generations or so, perhaps half that. How come incredibly complex humans develop amazingly complex brains (not to mention other physical traits) so quickly, while single-celled bacteria take twice as many generations to merely develop resistance to drugs?
skydaddy on December 18, 2008 at 5:01 PM
they’re my favorites for a couple reasons…
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 5:02 PM
I just don’t get it. As the local heathan, I don’t care what Christians, Islamist, Jews or any other religions do during their holidays. To each their own. As long as it doesn’t threaten or endanger any one, it just doesn’t matter.
For cryin out loud, be big enough to not look at a decoration if it offends you. If a decoration offends you, there are other issues to be addressed. Perhaps with your theropist.
oakpack on December 18, 2008 at 5:02 PM
its a great book! he was a very interesting man…and worked with Buckley and the national review when it first started…he is one of the Godfathers of conservatism in this country…along with Burnham…and buckley…
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 5:03 PM
Besides warbaby’s stupidity is mentioning Godwin’s law when bringing up Hitler, he is simply wrong. Marx called Malthus “that great destroyer of human happiness”, and Malthus’s ideas were the cornerstone on which Darwin’s conclusions were reached. And Marx’s ideas sound like no one so much as the Pope when he denounced Malthus.
thuja on December 18, 2008 at 5:04 PM
If someday we design robots that can provide for themselves , reproduce and are subject to occasional errors that are passed down to subsequent generations then it’s entirely likely that they will evolve over time, IMO.
FloatingRock on December 18, 2008 at 5:05 PM
Their force will overcome our free will, if we’re not careful, and PC.
Entelechy on December 18, 2008 at 5:05 PM
Unity time is officially over.
Grammatically speaking it’s not necessary. Writing god means exactly the same thing.
You haven’t even seen the worst of his posts. He’s been very mild and respectful today from what I’ve read.
Esthier on December 18, 2008 at 5:07 PM
I just figured I’d comment too.
AbaddonsReign on December 18, 2008 at 5:07 PM
Fair enough.
Cheers to that! How about more federal religious holidays?
Esthier on December 18, 2008 at 5:08 PM
Why indeed? Many, many questions. I certainly don’t have any answers for you.
Perhaps my erectus/sapien analogy was too broad….try caucasian & polynesian.
Maybe because bacteria are such a miniscule piece of genetic material, and humans are so massively complex, that they simply don’t have enough genetic complexity to evolve in more complex ways.
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 5:08 PM
Saw a TED talk recently on superstring theory. It turns out that there are about 20 numbers that define the universe – mass of the proton, etc. It also turns out that if any one of those 20 numbers were very much different from its actual value – we’re talking percentages, not orders of magnitude – the universe would not exist. Period. The probability that this universe would even exist is infinitesimal.
And yet, here we are, and able to appreciate it, study it, wonder why we’re here. Seems pretty foolish to me to assume that it all “just happened for no reason at all”.
skydaddy on December 18, 2008 at 5:09 PM
I suppose it is also worth noting that Nazi troops had ‘In God We Trust’ etched on their belts. Again… it proves nothing.
lexhamfox on December 18, 2008 at 5:09 PM
Actually, it was “Gott mitt Uns” – “God is with us.” And that was a sop to traditional German Lutheranism; Hitler himself was into Norse mythology and the occult. If you’re going to bring Nazis into it, at least be correct.
skydaddy on December 18, 2008 at 5:11 PM
A religious thread just wouldn’t be the same without nazism.
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 5:12 PM
But of course, only the woman you will marry and never anyone else’s, as you were very clear that even suggesting that you would look at a woman that way is the same as screwing her.
Esthier on December 18, 2008 at 5:13 PM
its obvious Hitler’s ideas on the ‘master race’ were from Eugenics, which was from evolution…
“‘Social Darwinism’ is often taken to be something extraneous, an ugly concretion added to the pure Darwinian corpus after the event, tarnishing Darwin’s image. But his notebooks make plain that competition, free trade, imperialism, racial extermination, and sexual inequality were written into the equation from the start- ‘Darwinism’ was always intended to explain human society.” (Desmond, Adrian [Science historian, University College, London] & Moore, James [Science historian, The Open University, UK], “Darwin,” [1991], Penguin: London, 1992, reprint, pp.xix).
“At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked, will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilized state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla.” (Darwin, Charles R. [English naturalist and founder of the modern theory of evolution], “The Descent of Man and Selection in Relation to Sex,” [1871], John Murray: London, Second Edition, 1922, reprint, pp.241-242).
it proves a great deal actually…
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 5:13 PM
sabbott, my first inclination is to assume you’re an atheist sock-puppet. But just as an exercise, I’ll take you at face value.
You don’t identify just exactly what God it is that you want us all to follow. I figure we can rule out Christianity, since we saw that when Jesus walked the Earth he made no attempt to institute a theocracy — on the contrary, he told us Christians that we were BLESSED when we were persecuted, mocked, ridiculed, and maligned. Still (based on a handful of stump-ignorant pseudo-Christians I’ve known), I can’t help thinking that you believe this is a pro-Christian idea.
God granted to each person free-will, the right to accept or reject him. Yet every few hundred years someone comes along and — in the name of THAT VERY GOD — decides they have the right to countermand God and take away free will. The inevitable result is a corrupt, tyrannical ruling class.
Christian eschatology predicts that someday Christ himself will return to earth and rule. If we are wrong, non-believers have nothing to fear. If we are right, then WE have nothing to fear.
So I ask you, sabbott: do you really believe? Or are you just some mean-spirited jerk who wants everyone else to dance to your tune?
RegularJoe on December 18, 2008 at 5:13 PM
A direct line runs from Darwin, through the founder of the eugenics movement-Darwin’s cousin, Francis Galton-to the extermination camps of Nazi Europe.” (Brookes, Martin.,”Ripe old age,” Review of “Of Flies, Mice and Men,” by Francois Jacob, Harvard University Press, 1999. New Scientist, Vol. 161, No. 2171, 30 January 1999, p.41).
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 5:14 PM
So the atheists want to say
In place of the stolen sign?
Well good on them I guess, but why do they assume a believer stole the sign? Atheists on these threads and other sites have expressed embarrassment over the lack of a positive non-attacking message such as the other faiths have (not to put too fine a point on it, “Merry Christmas” as opposed to “atheists are idiots!”)
I have no idea of course, but what if an atheist did steal the sign? Then the atheist would be using the Word of God to speak to another atheist. Ah the rich creamy irony.
inviolet on December 18, 2008 at 5:15 PM
No, just no.
Esthier on December 18, 2008 at 5:15 PM
Ayaan is the victim of a piece of shit satanic cult. Not sure what excuse the twits have whom Michelle is talking about.
Drum on December 18, 2008 at 5:16 PM
Really? I reckon I’ve got an integer overflow on my shag-o-meter then ;)
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 5:17 PM
Which nicely explains how simple single-celled organisms evolved into great varieties of multi-celled… wait.
:-0
See, that’s EXACTLY my point. Populations of simple organisms and populations of complex organisms adapting to their environment – sure, we can observe that. But populations of simple organisms becoming more complex over time… notsomuch.
The various races of humans are all the same species – we can all interbreed. But all that variation has occured in no more than 80,000 generations (assuming the “out of Africa” hypothesis is correct). You’d think we’d have a lot greater range of phenotypes, with all that complex genetic material available for mutations.
skydaddy on December 18, 2008 at 5:17 PM
Glad Michelle displayed the courage she did, and said what she said, despite having “atheist friends.” I like it when people speak truthfully despite who “may” get upset. Truth wins everytime! And thats the truth! Well done, Michelle. I also think “FOX & Friends” is one of the better shows on the FOX Television Network. I gained alot of respect for Gretchen, Steve, and Brian because they treated Huckabee fairly during the Republican primaries (I cannot say the same for some of the other program hosts and television personalities on the Fox network). BTW: Gretchen was right we need to stand up to (instead of ignoring) the atheists who are attacking Christmas. In short, these atheist attacks are not so much an attack on Christmas as an attack on Christianity. Atheists want to “purge” the US of its Christian heritage and destroying Christmas is one way they hope to accomplish that. I don’t think a Christian can be apathetic about this threat to our culture. There is an increasing tide of securalism and godlessness that continues at a steady pace to wash away centuries of Christian influence in our societies. We must do everything we can to fend off the sad consequences of these world-views. Keep in mind though, Christians need to always be biblical, truthful, and act in loving concern, of course, at the same time we need to realize the atheists are not the enemy, Satan is the enemy. It may be difficult at times, but we need to love the sinner while we hate the sin. God is not willing that any should perish but that all come to the knowledge of the truth (2 Peter 3:9).
apacalyps on December 18, 2008 at 5:18 PM
Now you’re talking about a vastly greater period of time. Also, say the ‘background radiation’ theory underpinning evolution is correct, there is no reason to believe that the influence has been constant throughout time. Perhaps there was greater radiation in the early days of life on earth? Perhaps that triggered more rapid and more widely diverse mutations?
Who knows?
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 5:22 PM
Your point is exactly what I was speaking about.
There are certain ‘points’ at which the fundamental (and irreconcilable?) differences between atheists and theists become easily observable.
This is one of them.
We each look at the same thing, come to different conclusions then scratch our head in bewilderment that anyone could come to a different conclusion.
Religious_Zealot on December 18, 2008 at 5:22 PM
I don’t know what to think…it’s just an interesting theory. I’m still holding out hopes for a pair of wolverine claws.
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 5:23 PM
I have every reason to believe you.
Esthier on December 18, 2008 at 5:23 PM
I’d rather fly.
Esthier on December 18, 2008 at 5:24 PM
Too bad the actual value is a null. :P
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 5:25 PM
Things are as they are. If they were different, things would be different.
FloatingRock on December 18, 2008 at 5:26 PM
I’ll take immortality.
There can be only one.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 5:26 PM
thuja on December 18, 2008 at 5:04 PM
lexhamfox on December 18, 2008 at 5:09 PM
warbaby on December 18, 2008 at 5:27 PM
That would explain why sex with me is exceptional ;)
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 5:27 PM
That’s not a particularly rare thing to hear from certain sections of the Christian Right. For instance, Paul Weyrich – who died today – basically said the same thing about Wiccans in the military.
Big S on December 18, 2008 at 5:29 PM
You’re forgetting all the people who perished in the Flood.
HA! I kill myself.
Rosmerta on December 18, 2008 at 5:29 PM
An athiest is a person who does not believe in God, or at least claims he does not believe in God. I doubt there’s any real atheists out there.
apacalyps on December 18, 2008 at 5:29 PM
It’s a good thing that people were never raped or slaughtered in the name of Christianity or else you would look really fooling right now.
Oh, wait….
FloatingRock on December 18, 2008 at 5:29 PM
What’s next ? Satanists in the haberdashery?
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 5:30 PM
Better get used to church grounds.
Esthier on December 18, 2008 at 5:30 PM
Darwin was himself once a religious believer, but one whose faith gradually dwindled over a very long period of time. He continued to maintain a respectful stance toward religion and believers long after he lost his own faith in the truth of Christianity. He never became an atheist at all–he insisted that he was only an agnostic.
aengus on December 18, 2008 at 5:31 PM
Pfft. That’s like running to the teacher. Real men get out there and start upping their odds.
Besides, immortality means eternal libido. Can’t do that in a church. Well, not often.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 5:33 PM
Some Christian conservatives get all worked up about these kinds of things, so I wouldn’t be surprised.
Big S on December 18, 2008 at 5:35 PM
Ha.
Yeah, I wish we could drop this. Atheism doesn’t cause wars. Religion doesn’t cause wars. Both are tools that have been used to start wars.
Enough already.
Esthier on December 18, 2008 at 5:36 PM
Thats not correct English. The God of the Bible is capitalised. The god or gods of pagan cultures are not.
aengus on December 18, 2008 at 5:36 PM
LOL!
FloatingRock on December 18, 2008 at 5:37 PM
ATHEIST TEST
Do you know of any building that didn’t have a builder?
___ YES ___ NO
apacalyps on December 18, 2008 at 5:37 PM
Yes to the last question. Which means I should more precisely say that atheism is the rejection of faith as the sole or primary basis of belief. I think there’s a trivial amount of faith – a kind of pragmatic confidence – required to believe anything. So, yeah, it raises some uncomfortable epistemological questions about what kinds of evidence to admit, and what burdens must be met. I don’t think I can begin to resolve that to anyone’s satisfaction.
The big bang actually has robust empirical support. The observations of cosmic radiation and Hubble’s constant don’t leave much room for other possibilities, although there’s certainly room for refinement. Science has always been about making models and checking their predictions against observation. I’d agree there are a few dubious ones, though.
RightOFLeft on December 18, 2008 at 5:38 PM
I would say that the average Christian doesn’t think too much about atheists. It’s tough enough trying to live up to the teachings of Christ. Why add to that burden by fighting a group of people who basically have a live and let live philosophy?
Anti-theists, though, are again a different situation. It’s hard to ignore people who seem to go way out of their way to attack and insult you.
Religious_Zealot on December 18, 2008 at 5:39 PM
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