Ultimate heart-ache: Michelle dumps on atheists
posted at 1:57 pm on December 18, 2008 by Allahpundit
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But affectionately. Sort of. Except for her suggestion that believers treat them like “trolls.” Heh.
I think she’s referring specifically to the sort of jackassery going on at the capitol in Washington, of which neither I nor the other conservative atheist/agnostics I read are fans. But just in case not, I take comfort in knowing that I’ll always have Ayaan.
Exit question: Um, what exactly is Gretchen saying here? Christianity’s going to disappear unless we … take away atheists’ First Amendment rights?
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I’ll be frank with you; I feel like there is disturbing lack of persecution in this country.
One of the basic themes of of the New Testament is that if you are follwing God correctly you will suffer injustice, primarily because you are a hardcore, walking, talking, truth-blaster, and as our government has proven thousands of times, people hate the honest and love the crooks.
I feel like there isn’t that much persecution going on (especially compared to first-century Rome), because there isn’t that much truth-blasting going on. If there really were groups of people living as they did in century-one, I’m certain you’d see more Suadi-type laws around here.
(And for the record, I personally don’t consider removing idols of white people and farm animals from a municipal lawn persecution.)
TMK on December 18, 2008 at 3:48 PM
I’d like to take a chance and bring you around.
Are you familiar with…the Force?
Oh, and forget all that midichlorian BS. That was the equivalent of Scientology.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 3:48 PM
Chicks may come down my place for goodwill any time of the year.
BKennedy on December 18, 2008 at 3:49 PM
That would be ridiculous, wouldn’t it?
RightOFLeft on December 18, 2008 at 3:50 PM
I really don’t know where you’re going with that….are you talking about the Star Wars ‘Force’?
I am familiar with that, because I have watched these works of fiction many, many times.
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 3:52 PM
And you don’t think that’s what Baptist missionaries are trying to do? Or Moonies at the airport? Or the sweet old fat ladies at the Lutheran bake-sale? Or the nineteen-year-old Mormon “elder” at your front door?
You have yet to provide a difference.
TMK on December 18, 2008 at 3:53 PM
I can’t help but compare this to Islam, who’s “perfect man” ran away when he was persecuted, and then came back to extract revenge and conquer when he had the upper hand.
Count to 10 on December 18, 2008 at 3:53 PM
YES!!
This video was delicious! I think I just gained a pound from watching it…..yummmmm
FYI – Gretchen’s point about standing up to atheists or else Christianity will be thrown out and marginalized has merit due to the VERY SMALL AMOUNT of gays that want to be married attempting to push the view of a small minority upon the Christian majority.
TheMightyQuinn on December 18, 2008 at 3:54 PM
His worshippers, right? Unless I’m misinterpreting that “fear of God” phrase.
Sign of the Dollar on December 18, 2008 at 3:54 PM
Been inside working all day. Basement of this complex has no windows. I assume so, though.
Thankfully, I live only a paltry couple of miles from work. Everyone hates me for this fact.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 3:55 PM
NOOB. You don’t even deserve to be called Padawan.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 3:56 PM
I’m not trying to. I’m trying to get a clear idea of what people think the nature of ‘religion’, ‘faith’ & ‘belief’ really are, and how they may be related.
Just pretend I’m an alien, trying to make sense of what you all are talking about….coz that’s truly how I feel ;)
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 3:56 PM
MB4,
The rise of the West had much less to do with democracy than with the rise of secularism. [I am chiefly concerned here with how Western Civillisation was built--the barbarians who sacked Rome being civillised by their conversion to Christianity. -aengus] The West’s advance was chiefly related to the decline in the influence of religion that sought the truth by “looking in” to see what God had to say, and its replacement by looking out, deriving authority from observation, experimentation and exploration. [I agree largely agree with this with the proviso that in the last half-century the decline of art has been due to the "looking in" of secular liberalism. By contrast some of the most beautiful works of art in history like the Book of Kells were produced by the supposedly backward medieval culture - aengus]
The original figures to draw attention to this were Bishop Robert Grosseteste, early in the 13th century, the first person to imagine the experiment, and his contemporary, St Thomas Aquinas, the first man to imagine a secular world, a world without God directing everything. Secularism is not the same as atheism, of course, both Grosseteste and Aquinas were priests. But they helped us to escape from the overbearing medieval view that the world has meaning and pattern only in relation to God [or Allah].
MB4 on December 18, 2008 at 3:40 PM
aengus on December 18, 2008 at 3:57 PM
That’s simply not true. You’ve opportunistically defined atheism, that’s all. I can still not believe in god but be open to hearing contrary arguments. Atheism means not believing in God, nothing more.
RightOFLeft on December 18, 2008 at 3:57 PM
I think I’d thump anyone that did ;)
What was your point?
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 3:57 PM
Let atheists have their displays. I’m not threatened by them at all. Christianity has survived–no, thrived–despite Lenin, Mao, Kim Dung Hill, Nietszche, & all of their underlings.
Jesus said that his Church (at that time a few hundred poor folks) would eventually cover the Earth & reach all nations.
jgapinoy on December 18, 2008 at 3:59 PM
That seems a bit more admirable than the one who advocates “turning the other cheek”.
With that said, I certainly prefer today’s Christians to Muslims. Mostly because Christians have watered down a lot of the irrational bits of their belief system in favor of reason while the Muslims are fundamentalist fanatics.
Sign of the Dollar on December 18, 2008 at 3:59 PM
I have to disagree with you on that. Yes, it’s the symbol of Christmas, but it’s not the symbol of Christianity. That would be the cross, which is why the real holy day for Christians is more appropriately Easter.
I get what you’re saying here, but I think it’s a little incomplete. Not accepting Christ isn’t necessarily proof of a hard heart. It’s a very personal decision and one that requires a leap of faith that some just don’t see as valid.
While I do believe that Christianity enriches peoples’ lives, I don’t see how that’s any more offensive than a person who claims music does the same thing.
Yes, I do feel that non-Christians are missing out, but I feel the same way about MGMT and Okkervil River.
Of course people who call themselves atheists exist, but that doesn’t mean atheists actually exist.
I’m not calling anyone a liar, but I don’t believe in atheists. I don’t believe it’s possible to have no doubt in that God does not exist.
Then again, I believe everyone comes to terms with the issue, as I don’t believe anyone is sent to hell over disbelief but for outright rejection.
Esthier on December 18, 2008 at 4:00 PM
As ridiculous as thinking a nativity set in a town square imbues Christianity with some sort of ‘political privilege.’
Or, to put it another way, I fail to see the leap of logic that took you from ‘recognition’ to ‘privilege.’
Religious_Zealot on December 18, 2008 at 4:00 PM
Wrong again.
Not believing in god is not the same as believing there is no god. The first refuses to claim knowledge one way or another. The second does, based on faith. Atheists believe “There is no god”. That is not the same as not believing in him.
Common mistake.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 4:00 PM
because you are the one who said:
but you brought science into it, thought you’d managed to disprove God scientifically…
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 4:01 PM
I cannot teach him.
The boy has no patience.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 4:01 PM
true, we’re living in laodicea…
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 4:02 PM
This completely bald agnostic is going to be using that one!
DarkCurrent on December 18, 2008 at 4:02 PM
Well, I see all the gang except for the classy individual Zealot, Jxdad, and I all mentioned. Oh well. Maybe he’s working. Do carry on with the civil discussion.
kingsjester on December 18, 2008 at 4:03 PM
Agnostics don’t believe in God either.
Esthier on December 18, 2008 at 4:03 PM
That wasn’t my intent. Gravity doesn’t ‘belong’ to science, it’s a natural phenomenon. We all experience it, science tries to model it mathematically, but in the end, I simply ‘believe’ there is a real system at work, because I can predictably interact with it.
Does my ‘belief’ in gravity make it a ‘religion’?
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 4:04 PM
So you’re telling me you’re a Star Wars geek….OK, I get it.
Did you have a point, or are you just soaking up bandwidth?
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 4:05 PM
Nobody fits your definition of atheism, which is entirely your own. I’m not saying you don’t have a right to make up your own definition of atheism, but your condescension is misplaced.
RightOFLeft on December 18, 2008 at 4:06 PM
JxD, let’s hope we’re never in such a camp, much as I’d like to talk to you.
Don’t want to change the topic, but there was never any hope there, just fear. Fear is what kept me from being killed. I never thought the curtain would fall, until I saw it with my own eyes. Had no clue that it was such a house of carton. However, maybe it was always more than that, by all indications around the world, and here, of late.
I will never forgive the fools, from the left to the right, for self-destructing. I’ll wish it on them, the hard way. It’s sad that by doing so, America and her children are to suffer also. Can’t blame anyone but us, though.
BKennedy, indeed. We were fools in the primaries. I drove back to San Diego from LA yesterday, in horrible stormy conditions, thus on the road way longer than the crazy usual way. I see so many O-stickers now, when before the election they were nearly inexistent, both for McCain and O. I was thinking “A truly talented and experienced man, Mr. Romnney, is out, and an empty, inexperience narcissistic cipher is in. Fools”.
In fact, I think Caroline Kennedy has more experienc than Obama.
Entelechy on December 18, 2008 at 4:07 PM
As a agnostic, I thought the monument was extremely disrespectful. There was tasteful and there was that POS.
scrubbiedude on December 18, 2008 at 4:08 PM
Actually, it would be entirely possible for an atheist to believe in a god. All that is required is that the atheist does not claim that god as his own.
Count to 10 on December 18, 2008 at 4:09 PM
no because you experience it. But you experience God too, and you just deny Him…to think morality, reason, health, intellect, every breath, isn’t a gift, and is just due you cause you’re you is hubris. I’ve never understood how anyone could look around them and think there is no god, and this just happened…
but some people only learn the hard way…
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 4:09 PM
I’d say then that Good Friday is just as significant as Easter.
Dude…I don’t know why, but I suddenly got the idea in my head for a “24″ parody following Jesus Christ from 12:00AM, Good Friday, till 11:00PM Easter Sunday. I am demented.
I consider the tree, the nativity scene, the cross, the grail, and many other holy symbols to be just as representative of Christianity as the others.
I’m not saying Christianity is offensive. I’m saying that the assertion of their being right is as offensive to non-Christians as non-Christians’ assertion of their being right is offensive to Christians. The thing is, I don’t see either way as being offensive, but since a bunch of people are offended by one lane of traffic, I’m just applying it to the traffic going both ways.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 4:10 PM
I know you’re still pissy and elitist over the Linux thing, but are you really going to drag that over and just be a dick instead of playing along?
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 4:12 PM
I find it odd that you can look around and only imagine that everything had to be made, and couldn’t have happened on its own.
Count to 10 on December 18, 2008 at 4:12 PM
I find your lack of faith disturbing.
subbottomfeeder on December 18, 2008 at 4:12 PM
Certainly. I’m glad that they have the freedom to express their opinion, but they do themselves a disservice by trashing religious people (especially at this time of year) instead of simply making their own case.
It could.
Esthier on December 18, 2008 at 4:12 PM
No, it’s not. The sign in question says “There are no gods”. Not “I don’t believe in any gods”, but “There are no gods”. One is a statement of lack of faith, the other is a statement of faith.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 4:14 PM
If believing that there is no higher power or intelligence than oneself is illogical, why is it logical to believe there is a higher power or intelligence than oneself, without having any evidence that such a thing exists? Why trust an unsubstantiated claim over your own perception?
Sign of the Dollar on December 18, 2008 at 4:15 PM
I agree with your basic premise that Christianity will thrive where it is persecuted; but I don’t think you understand Christianity well at all, and thus came to a correct conclusion for all the wrong reasons.
Christianity is indeed a selfless and sacrificial life; but it is anything but miserable. Jesus didn’t say “it is more miserable but admirable to give than to receive”; He said it is more “blessed”. It gives a Christian (and most other people, at least much of the time) JOY to give or to serve, not misery.
And the thought that Christians forgo selfish interests for reward in the afterlife is also quite wrong. Our salvation is not through works, but through faith. Our works are of obedience — they are an outgrowth of our faith, not a drudgery.
As for ambition, I suppose it depends upon how you define the term. I have ambitions: to be more loving and forgiving, and to share my material blessings, my joy, and my faith with more people, are the highest of my ambitions. of course I’d like to have a better salary and a nicer car, too; but if those ever become my highest ambitions, I’ll have lost my way.
The reason Christianity will thrive where it is persecuted is that each individual will have to “put up or shut up”. There would be no more wimpy “cafeteria Christians”, choosing only those Bible verses they like. There would be no “good ol’ boys” club, showing up to make business connections at the Church. No more Saturday-night-sinner/Sunday-morning-saints. People who claim the name of Jesus in times of persecution possess faith strong enough to move mountains. THAT is why Christianity thrives where it is persecuted. Pretty buildings don’t thrive; Christians themselves may be starved, beaten, denied opportunities to work, enslaved, or executed; but the faith thrives!!
RegularJoe on December 18, 2008 at 4:15 PM
You’ll find I’m full of surprises.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 4:15 PM
Maybe, but he would still need to come up with a mythology for it, as well as ceremonies glorifying it, and the moral system it advocates.
Count to 10 on December 18, 2008 at 4:15 PM
yeah because its my experience that there are no uncaused causes…except God. I’ll tell you what, why don’t you open an editor, bang on the keyboard, and try to compile it into a program.
everything is decaying and dying, including you, and yet you think by waving some magic wand of time evolution could just produce all this.
you have far more faith than I do….
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 4:15 PM
aengus on December 18, 2008 at 3:24 PM
MB4 on December 18, 2008 at 3:40 PM
Related to the topics of God, Communism, Atheism, etc., I am reading Whittaker Chambers’ Witness. This passage explains the epiphany he had when he first became conscious of the atrocities of the Soviets:
Disturb the Universe on December 18, 2008 at 4:16 PM
There’s probably more of a continuum of beliefs, and there aren’t necessarily clean divisions that define where any particular person falls on that continuum. MC says that “atheists aren’t open to evidence” and that’s just not true. Atheists can have different ideas about what burdens must be met to prove the existence of God, but nearly every atheist (there’s always an exception) allows that the burden can be met.
RightOFLeft on December 18, 2008 at 4:16 PM
Impressive. Most impressive.
Count to 10 on December 18, 2008 at 4:16 PM
did someone build the house you live in, car you drive, or did you just cut down a few trees and stack them, and then wait for them to ‘evolve’ into your house?
or did you dig some iron ore, and aluminum, throw em into a pile, hope they *magically* became a car??
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 4:18 PM
And maybe here we come to one of the basic and fundamental differences between those of faith and atheists.
For us religious folks, the beauty, complexity and majesty of nature is well nigh proof that God exists since such things could not possibly be the result of chance and accident.
Religious_Zealot on December 18, 2008 at 4:19 PM
So my ‘belief’ in gravity is not a ‘religion’ because I experience it, yet your ‘belief’ in a god is a ‘religion’ because you experience him/her/it? I’m not following you.
Hubris? That’s a very peculiar application of that term.
I don’t understand why people look around at all the wonderous world they occupy and feel the need to invent things to fill the gaps in their understanding of reality. Why does there have to be a god? Why can’t there be something else? Must there be anything at all?
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 4:19 PM
.
Your powers are weak old man.
.
You are beaten, it is useless to resist.
subbottomfeeder on December 18, 2008 at 4:19 PM
Well then, we’ll be watching your career with great interest.
Religious_Zealot on December 18, 2008 at 4:19 PM
That is a very dark and dreary (dare I say Gothic?) view of reality.
Count to 10 on December 18, 2008 at 4:19 PM
If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 4:20 PM
No. I actually held out hope you were trying to make some kind of analogous point.
You were just goofing around? Fine.
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 4:21 PM
Logical error. Please try again.
Count to 10 on December 18, 2008 at 4:21 PM
Why is it a logic error?
While one may not agree with what was said or see it as ‘proof’ of anything…
…it certainly seems to be a logical extension of your previous thought.
Religious_Zealot on December 18, 2008 at 4:23 PM
Maybe I didn’t understand the Akon issue, but from what I know this was a nonsense issue. It’s actually considered great fun by the kids at hardcore shows to be thrown like the kid was thrown. Even at my advanced age, I’ve seen it in person in the last five years.
thuja on December 18, 2008 at 4:23 PM
Quotes not acceptable from those travesties.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 4:23 PM
…and I find it fascinating to learn the ways that such intricate structures can arise form a mere handful of physical rules.
Count to 10 on December 18, 2008 at 4:23 PM
you’re alive. you experience life, health, every breath, etc…but you refuse to acknowledge there is a God….
Romans 1 says it best…
19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 4:24 PM
If you couldn’t see that from the first post, you need to lighten up a bit.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 4:24 PM
Yeah…I thought it was some kind of twist on stage diving.
Wait a minute, what thread is this?
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 4:24 PM
I love the sanctimony of oh-so aggrieved Christians over not getting the respect they deserve at this time of year. Maybe there’s a reason for that, ya know…
starfleet_dude on December 18, 2008 at 4:25 PM
You’re asking someone to get over a Holy War, the day after?
No way, dude!
thuja on December 18, 2008 at 4:25 PM
its called faith.
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 4:26 PM
It was the way you started with “Let me try to bring you around” or some such….I thought you had some clever ‘Force’ analogy to lay on me.
Which I was all lined up to knock out of the park, btw ;)
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 4:26 PM
Muslims, say/wish for the same.
Entelechy on December 18, 2008 at 4:26 PM
Please note that I wasn’t trying to ‘prove’ anything…
…just trying to show where some of the basic, fundamental differences between atheists and theists arise.
In one sense it’s a lot like those optical illusion pictures – like the young maid/old hag picture or the up/down staircase.
Two different people look at the same thing and come away with two different conclusions.
Religious_Zealot on December 18, 2008 at 4:26 PM
no logical error…just the truth, and you obviously can’t handle that.
if you think things just ‘evolve’ go ahead, put your faith to the test…but you won’t.
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 4:27 PM
Aww hell, it takes a lot more than a good bit of religious flamery to get under my skin ;)
It’s all good.
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 4:27 PM
I have an image of Linux users rioting over a comic depicting Linus Torvalds with a Vista logo tattooed on his arm.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 4:27 PM
Look at what I wrote:
He jumped from what I wrote to a claim that I thought nothing around me was “made,” or, given his examples, manufactured. Thus, logical error.
Count to 10 on December 18, 2008 at 4:28 PM
so you don’t think a car, or a house, or a computer can arise from a few physical rules…but you think something far more complex, human life can!!
yeah that makes sense :rolleyes:
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 4:28 PM
That’s pretty black and white. (Raaaacist!) In my belief system (Catholicism) many beliefs are seen as approaching the truth in varying degrees.
Further, those who refuse to believe are, I’m sure, often being faithful to their convictions or at least their doubts. And sinfulness, blindness, and empty-heartedness can easily be found in believers. For believers, all of life is a process of learning to become one with God and His will; to the degree that we’re not, we’re sinful, blind, and empty. I know I am no better than anyone else, I’m just (at times anyway) more aware than some of what I lack.
Amen, Madison.
Yes – it intrigues me that AP initiates all these threads, but never contributes. Heaven knows he’s used to getting flamed, so fear of our reactions can’t be the reason. Allah, come out come out wherever you are! What do you worship, if anything, and why?
Rosmerta on December 18, 2008 at 4:29 PM
Atheism is a rejection of faith as a basis for belief in the first place. It doesn’t even make sense to say that an atheist has faith.
RightOFLeft on December 18, 2008 at 4:29 PM
There is no escape. Don’t make me destroy you.
Religious_Zealot on December 18, 2008 at 4:29 PM
Hypothetically, I suppose that could be right, but very few of the gods anyone believes in these days could co-exist with other gods. In the case of a monotheistic religion, it would seem that anyone who believed the god existed would be acknowledging this god’s claim to them.
But I think life-long atheists and religious believers (of any faith) come from such distinctly different points of view and have so wildly different premises that neither really understands what the other thinks about the subject of gods.
I, for example, can’t even fathom the idea of a god. For such a being to exist (or to care about the petty going-ons of this world and its inhabitants) makes no sense to me because it runs counter to everything that I know about reality.
Meanwhile, I’ve come across a countless number of religious people who say they don’t believe that anyone truly holds doubts about the existence of a god or a spiritual realm.
Sign of the Dollar on December 18, 2008 at 4:30 PM
Is your faith so weak that it is threatened by the observations others have made about reality?
Count to 10 on December 18, 2008 at 4:30 PM
You are unwise to lower your defenses!
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 4:30 PM
totally incorrect. but your ‘logic’ can’t deal with what I said, so you have to ignore it and gloss over it.
you think that the complexity of the universe and life itself, can just arise and ‘evolve’ from a few physical rules…but you don’t think something far less complex, like a house, can.
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 4:30 PM
The difference is free will.
Disturb the Universe on December 18, 2008 at 4:30 PM
I think you misunderstand the theory of evolution. Nobody expects a puppy to transform into a rhino in front of their eyes. Nor does anyone believe that inorganic matter evolves.
The mechanism at play is perhaps best evidenced by the mutation of bacteria/viruses into ever-resistant strains.
How does that change occur? There are theories (my favourite is background radiation), but nobody truly knows for sure, certainly not enough to be able to reliably predict which mutation will follow.
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 4:31 PM
its not may faith thats weak, its yours. you think life can ‘evolve’ but something far simpler, a house, for example, cannot.
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 4:31 PM
lol I can believe it. Linus would be burned at the stake ;)
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 4:32 PM
Then explain the statement “there is no god”. Statement of knowledge of no higher intelligence or power is no more logical than the statement that there is, given the vast amount of unanswered questions about everything from the beginning of the universe to the meaning of life.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 4:32 PM
True faith requires doubt. Otherwise it’s just unquestioning arrogance.
starfleet_dude on December 18, 2008 at 4:32 PM
You must unlearn what you have learned
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 4:33 PM
In this instance, I actually think Obama has the upper hand, seeing as despite his incompetence, he was at least theoretically responsible for running the Annenburg challenge. Granted all the money got hosed down Ayersian tubes to crazy America hating nutcases.
Captain Rookie is still at the helm, and we still have to suffer for it, though.
Romney was, incidentelly, my first choice. I recently came across a Michelle post that followed up on Haleigh Poutre, and I checked earlier posts and found some statements in support of life for her made by Romney while he was Governor. He wasn’t forced to say any of it. I had some small doubts about him on life issues, but that alleviated whatever grief I might have had.
And really, as much hatorade as Romney recieved, I doubt anyone aside from the Huckabites would have preffered either Captain Rookie or Crustius to him.
BKennedy on December 18, 2008 at 4:33 PM
oh I understand your precious ‘theory’ (faith in the hairygod darwin) all too well..please.
and at one time inorganic matter had to ‘evolve’ to become life…otherwise God created life..unless you have another explanation.
and that mechanism does not make the bacteria into something else besides bacteria. you look at small changes in the genome and extrapolate large changes…micro to macro…but you look at the tuatara, which has the fastest molecular ‘evolution’ of any animal ever seen, and yet its a living dinosaur. but you still have faith in evolution.
but you absolutely beyond any doubt know for sure that everything we see is a result of that evolution… :rolleyes:
right4life on December 18, 2008 at 4:34 PM
This little one’s not worth the effort. Now let me get you something.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 4:34 PM
“The fairest universe is but a heap of rubbish piled up at random.” –Heraclitus, born 540, BCE
Consider also the Japanese concept of wabsabi.
thuja on December 18, 2008 at 4:34 PM
I think I can agree with the later part of that.
But, if I was given proof (or strong enough evidence that I found no reason not to believe) that one of the versions of the Christian God was factual, I would still not worship him. He could claim me as a pet, but I would not claim him as my God, nor would I cede to moral authority. That is what I mean when I say I am atheist.
Count to 10 on December 18, 2008 at 4:34 PM
He is too old to be Jedi.
starfleet_dude on December 18, 2008 at 4:34 PM
BEHEAD THOSE WHO INSULT MANDRAKE
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 4:35 PM
I agree, but I suspect the SCOTUS made their ruling on the basis that atheism pertains to religious belief and is therefor protected by the 1st amendment. It’s not a religion, but in a sense it is a religious belief, even if it’s actually a lack of religious belief.
FloatingRock on December 18, 2008 at 4:35 PM
Ah, so you are the “hairy god” fetishist. I’ll try to remember that.
Count to 10 on December 18, 2008 at 4:36 PM
PS. to really take the piss out of linux users, check out the hilarious ELER comic.
http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 4:36 PM
Nah, she just wants that guilty feeling inside her to be supressed. That feeling that all religionists get when they confront the supernatural nonsense loaded in their fable books. I understand it makes one feel guilty, half because the claims are sheer nonsense and half because they feel that having such thoughts could have them burning in hell. This helps perpuate the “benefit of the doubt” believers that are “believing” just in case.
I always find it funny with Christmas, the War on Christmas. The only “War on Christmas” is when the Christians stole the day from the pagans. It wasn’t even their holiday to begin with.
LevStrauss on December 18, 2008 at 4:36 PM
Nah…those Man-duck lusers need a good kick.
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 4:37 PM
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