Ultimate heart-ache: Michelle dumps on atheists
posted at 1:57 pm on December 18, 2008 by Allahpundit
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But affectionately. Sort of. Except for her suggestion that believers treat them like “trolls.” Heh.
I think she’s referring specifically to the sort of jackassery going on at the capitol in Washington, of which neither I nor the other conservative atheist/agnostics I read are fans. But just in case not, I take comfort in knowing that I’ll always have Ayaan.
Exit question: Um, what exactly is Gretchen saying here? Christianity’s going to disappear unless we … take away atheists’ First Amendment rights?
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Er, uh, “when she learned to talk.”
Pelayo on December 19, 2008 at 6:07 PM
Worse than that, he appears to have cultivated his very own little cultish following here at HotAir. Do you have any idea how many times that the participants here have told me to “just shut-up and tell us what the collie says”?
CyberCipher on December 19, 2008 at 6:15 PM
Moral: Never let your dog use the internet.
If my daschund ever figures out how to order dog food online and have it delivered, I’m in trouble.
Right now, he’s a little offended that I misspelled dachshund. [ Happy now? ]
tom on December 19, 2008 at 6:20 PM
I hear that collies have a tendency to be effeminate. The Lassie movies and TV shows always used a male dog.
Pelayo on December 19, 2008 at 6:24 PM
I think that’s a pretty healthy point of view, but I don’t really understand the need for all of the spiritualism when it comes to establishing morality. It seems to me that it would be better to base one’s principles on the physical world and on concrete (real?) experiences.
If one comes upon a situation and asks themself, “Would it be right for me to act in a certain way?” I don’t think it would be proper for them to say, “Yes, because that’s what God says is right,” if there is no rational reason for them to even believe that this god exists. Instead, they should rely on their own (God-given?) judgement and common sense and trust that they are the source best equipped to suit their moral needs.
Sign of the Dollar on December 19, 2008 at 6:30 PM
My collie says:
Relax, collie. He’s an atheist. They’re still trying to figure out what their parts are for – er, except when they’re drunk like Hitchens or worrying about the space-aliens depositing their DNA on planet earth like Dawkins.
My collie says:
CyberCipher on December 19, 2008 at 6:39 PM
Really hoping the answer is none.
tom on December 19, 2008 at 6:48 PM
Even though some of you are strangers to me, I would like to smile to you anyways, and say “Merry Christmas.”
apacalyps on December 19, 2008 at 7:50 PM
I would appreciate that. I recall you saying this in other threads too, that you don’t want to waste your time with my posts, etc, That’s fine with me because all you seem to do is ask question after question after question or make hundreds of accusations even if I answer you with truth. I am convinced you don’t really want an answer, you just want to tie up all my time and prevent the gospel from getting out. So don’t message me and I won’t message you. One less person who twists my words. No hard feelings. Thank you.
apacalyps on December 19, 2008 at 9:01 PM
tell the collie evolution fails the test….
link
interesting that this experiment hasn’t been done before, maybe they don’t really want to put evoluion to the test
right4life on December 19, 2008 at 9:16 PM
its best not to cast pearls before swine like madison
conservativewackoright4life on December 19, 2008 at 9:18 PM
Don’t blame us. You’re the one allowing him internet access.
He’s pretty smart too. But let us see how he answers the following questions;
What’s on top of a house?
Where do I hit the ball when playing golf?
Who’s the greatest baseball player of all time?
soundingboard on December 19, 2008 at 9:55 PM
My collie says:
My guess would be that he makes Geico caveman commercials.
CyberCipher on December 19, 2008 at 10:14 PM
I love what Rush says, he’s spot on in ways he doesn’t even realize.
Speakup on December 19, 2008 at 10:28 PM
Saint Olaf,
What is the name of the painting and where is it preserved/displayed? Is the image on the internet?
BTW there is a St. Olafs football team in my city.
aengus on December 19, 2008 at 10:42 PM
Atheism is such an interesting religion.
apacalyps on December 19, 2008 at 10:51 PM
And if I don’t ask the right questions, I don’t deserve an answer. Yeah, I’ve heard that from fundamentalists before. It’s fine. Keep living in your own little sanctimonius fantasy.
MadisonConservative on December 19, 2008 at 10:55 PM
It is logically impossible to have no beliefs.
apacalyps on December 19, 2008 at 10:55 PM
Yes it is.
If you visit the monastery of Dionysiou at Mount Athos, you won’t miss the special “Apocalypse” fresco’s, painted 1603 and they are situated in the passage between the Katholikon and the Trapeza. One of the wall-paintings shows what we nowadays recognize as the mushroom cloud of an atomic bomb. It is actually a picture of the bible text of the Book of Revelation (9:1-3):
Here is a link to a photo of it.
http://athos.web-log.nl/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/047_athos_dionysiou_apocalyps_1_atoombom.jpg
SaintOlaf on December 19, 2008 at 10:57 PM
Thank you.
aengus on December 19, 2008 at 11:15 PM
“Thou shalt not steal.”
I can’t take them seriously when they use this. Their argument means next to nothing considering they don’t even believe what they are saying – and may not believe in the other commandments. I would counter that statement with a sign that says “Love the Lord your God.” They like to use the commandments when it suits them, but they’re picking and choosing here.
YoungAmerican on December 19, 2008 at 11:18 PM
Looks more like a rain cloud to me.
MadisonConservative on December 19, 2008 at 11:30 PM
How exactly are you defining religion when you say that atheism is a religion?
Bizarro No. 1 on December 19, 2008 at 11:41 PM
What is the Freedom From Religion Foundation?
A group of people who all hold the same theological belief(god does not exist), who created a name for their group, regularly meet together to discuss their beliefs and plan events where they do their best to influence others to think the way they do, or in other words, convert them.
Sounds like a church to me.
MadisonConservative on December 19, 2008 at 11:55 PM
That’s not it, and you know it. Ask any question you want, I don’t care. The problem here are your lies and that you don’t really want an answer. Then you call me a Fundamentalist (in a derogatory sense) a liar (an assertion that is false) and twist my words to make me say things that I did not say. Truth is, I love each and every one of you, and am I deeply concerned where you will spend eternity. But, I don’t see the point in spending what to me is valuable time answering every little hateful attack from scoffers like you when they are just like Doritos: Defend away, we’ll make more. If you don’t want my answers then don’t reply to my messages. There are lot’s of people here to keep you busy. You even said it yourself, I am an evil person. Well, ignore me and I promise not to message you. It’s that simple. This has nothing to do with you asking the right questions. You can not beat a deal like that!
apacalyps on December 19, 2008 at 11:57 PM
Hi Mr. Bizaare. Um,
Definitions of atheism:
1. The doctrine or belief that there is no God.
You would have to believe there is no God. That’s something you believe, you take that on faith. Thank you.
apacalyps on December 20, 2008 at 12:01 AM
What makes it so important to you that Atheism be a religion?
Speakup on December 20, 2008 at 12:02 AM
Sorry, I mean, Mr. Bizarro.
apacalyps on December 20, 2008 at 12:03 AM
Wrong. Number one, I don’t lie on this site. The closest I come to lying is my regular sarcasm where I purport to extol a viewpoint that anyone who sees my other posts could clearly tell is flippancy.
Number two, I want answers. However, I can usually see answers coming from certain people a mile away. Sometimes I ask questions because I’m fairly certain of what the response will be. I prefer to be pleasantly surprised, but with beauties like you, SaintOlaf, right4life, etc…it usually comes down to calling me an atheist, which I’m not, and the accusation that because I don’t belong to the faith I couldn’t understand, which is a total canard. Your dissonance about “scoffing” seems to apply to anyone who doesn’t agree, or to anyone who sees what you often say as offensive, or to anyone who takes issue with your holier-than-thou attitude, which is horribly deluded.
When one of you wants to discuss the issue without either throwing a fit about us challenging you with the same manner in which you engage us, and don’t resolve your own insecurities by calling us names or claiming we’re the devil or saying we’re possessed or any of that other ignorant horsecrap, come on back.
Too long, didn’t read? Get off your high horse so we can talk.
MadisonConservative on December 20, 2008 at 12:05 AM
Oops, phone, brb. 5min
apacalyps on December 20, 2008 at 12:08 AM
I really hate using this as an example of your lies, but for brevity sake,
You are lying when you say that your sexual discussion on the Internet with Esthier was not entertaining lustful thoughts. And when you refuse to admit that and blame me instead by saying “He misread the data,” (which is cruel and unfair) you lie again — lying to tell the truth.
I gave you a scientific answer and you rejected it.
And you never said a word regarding the above to me.
Here’s another lie:
I do not call every person who disagrees with me a “scoffer.” I have disagreements with people whom I consider saved Bible-believing Christians, and even some unbelievers too, i do not call them scoffers. A scoffer is somebody almost entirely motivated by self-interest, and will be unconcerned about God’s purposes, either for themselves or for the world as a whole. They will mock God’s Word.
No. I read it. But, I was thinking, y’know, I’m still confused cuz you’ve told me several times you were going to ignore me. And here I am offering you the opportunity for no more communication. I remember you said, “Esthier, I say this emphatically: Waste no more time on this worthless little psychotic pusbag.” Words have meaning, Madison. If I am such a horrible person the why continue to engage me in debate? I certainly don’t want to bother you. So my offer is that I will not message you if you don’t message me? Deal?
apacalyps on December 20, 2008 at 1:03 AM
The FFRF may be an atheistic group, but that doesn’t mean that atheism itself is a religion, does it? Saying that atheism is a religion distorts the meaning of religion in common parlance.
To be considered religious, a person needs an object to be religious about, right? The object these supposedly religious atheists are religious about doesn’t exist in their minds. So, going by the supposed definition, they are religious about nothing. Just how does it make sense to say that people who are religious about nothing are still religious? The fact is, it simply does not make any meaningful sense to say that atheism itself is a religion.
Bizarro No. 1 on December 20, 2008 at 1:05 AM
Hello apacalyps.
I understand that that is what atheism means. In my previous post to you, I was asking you to explain how it was a religion, however.
If I were to tell you that I don’t believe in the chupacabra, would you immediately claim that that non-belief was of a religious nature? Of course you wouldn’t!!! Beliefs in and of themselves do not make religions…
Bizarro No. 1 on December 20, 2008 at 1:13 AM
No, I’m not. Until you can get over the idea that you have a single clue what’s in my mind, drop dead.
MadisonConservative on December 20, 2008 at 1:14 AM
No, just an idea or belief.
MadisonConservative on December 20, 2008 at 1:15 AM
That is a good question, isn’t it?
I think the reason all these people consider atheism a religion is because they believe that everybody must be religious about something, even if it is their non-religiousness.
Bizarro No. 1 on December 20, 2008 at 1:44 AM
Like I said, you lie. And then have to continue to lie to not expose what you really think. We don’t need to know what’s in your mind to know what was on your mind:
MadisonConservative: “Can’t take your word on that. Have to do a routine inspection. Should be done in a half hour.”
Esthier: “You’re right. I’m completely worth it.”
MadisonConservative: “You may feel some pressure at a consistent, repetitive rate. A feeling of euphoria should indicate the examination is proceeding successfully.”
MadisonConservative: “The test will only take about two minutes.”
Esthier: “So long as it’s thorough and ends as you promised, in which case I’m not sure one test is effective.”
MadisonConservative: “These tests often require follow-up consultations. We have to be thorough.”
Esthier: “You never disappoint…
Dr. Madison is always on call (does house calls too). Just don’t let Esthiers husband know about the check-up. *wink*
apacalyps on December 20, 2008 at 1:45 AM
Like I said, no I don’t, drop dead until you stop erroneously claiming to know what I think.
MadisonConservative on December 20, 2008 at 1:49 AM
So how can those who follow the idea that there is no god really say that for sure?
apacalyps on December 20, 2008 at 1:53 AM
“A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies.” Proverbs 14:5
apacalyps on December 20, 2008 at 1:54 AM
Water is wet, but sand is not.
Wow. I’m inspired.
(See that? That’s called sarcasm. Other tools like irony, satire, and parody are regularly at my disposal, as well as innuendo. That last one you seem to have trouble with.)
MadisonConservative on December 20, 2008 at 1:58 AM
People who believe in God want Atheism to be a religion to assure themselves that God must exist and Atheists are wrong because it makes them theists irregardless.
Speakup on December 20, 2008 at 1:58 AM
Doesn’t matter how good your joke is, you can’t represent what you did as something it isn’t and blame it on other people. I take lying very seriously, especially when I am being accused of lying (when I have not). Sorry, but I can’t overlook this one until you apologize.
apacalyps on December 20, 2008 at 2:31 AM
Your arrogance is astounding, as is your ego.
Get this straight: You are wrong, and you need to stop worshiping your own misguided belief that you know better what one person is thinking than they do. You have insulted me and Esthier, and we are the ones who are owed an apology, by you. However, you have taken the sin of pride to such a comical extent, that you don’t even realize the irony.
MadisonConservative on December 20, 2008 at 2:36 AM
Let’s set the scene: A Police officer shows up at MadisonConservative’s front door, cuffs him, and take him to the judge. They have video of him going 75 MPH through an area set aside for a blind children’s convention. There were signs everywhere saying 20 MPH was the maximum speed. Add to that, the fact that the car was stolen.
MadisonConservative says…. “No, judge. I wasn’t speeding and I didn’t steal that car. I mean, the fact that I did it and was caught “red handed,” it doesn’t mean a thing. Uh, until you know what’s in my mind, there’s no way you can sentence me for this crime! It’s a misguided belief that you know better what one person is thinking than they do. So you can get over the idea that you have a single clue what’s in my mind, drop dead.”
LOL. Sorry, but Madison is gonna fry on this one.
apacalyps on December 20, 2008 at 3:00 AM
Wow. Just wow. Dropped-jaw wow.
MadisonConservative on December 20, 2008 at 3:03 AM
That’s how stupid you sound trying to justify something the obvious. “No, judge. I wasn’t speeding and I didn’t steal that car.” Meanwhile, the keys are dangling out of your pocket. Evil desires originate in our hearts and are manifest by the things we do or say.
apacalyps on December 20, 2008 at 3:16 AM
soundingboard on December 20, 2008 at 6:31 AM
When someone is said to be religious, they are supposedly religious about something, and that something would be considered the object of their religiousness, whether or not that object is a belief, idea, person, or what have you. I ask you, what is the focus of an atheist’s ‘religiousness’? What exactly is an atheist ‘religious’ about?
Bizarro No. 1 on December 20, 2008 at 7:59 AM
They don’t say they are 100% sure that God doesn’t exist (well, most of them don’t anyway). They believe that God doesn’t exist, but they don’t say it is factual that God doesn’t exist. They say that the evidence used to prove His existence isn’t good enough to convince them that He does in fact exist.
Bizarro No. 1 on December 20, 2008 at 8:19 AM
Stop feeding the troll MadCon.
The man is clearly crazy. He takes after UpcHuckabee,
BKennedy on December 20, 2008 at 8:23 AM
That certainly isn’t the truth for all theists who consider atheism a religion. I can’t say I believe it is true even for most theists who do. Of course, I could be wrong. :)
Bizarro No. 1 on December 20, 2008 at 8:24 AM
If everyone could agree that the existence of any god or one perticular God cannot be proven, and also the non-existence of gods or a particular God cannot be proven, that would be progress.
Pelayo on December 20, 2008 at 8:44 AM
Last!!!
abobo on December 20, 2008 at 9:29 AM
It takes all kinds, but that post was from a faith perspective.
Speakup on December 20, 2008 at 9:36 AM
How exactly could your proposition be considered progress to those who have been convinced beyond a reasoable doubt that God does in fact exist? Why would you wish for your agnosticism to be put upon them?
Bizarro No. 1 on December 20, 2008 at 10:24 AM
For me, progress would be good old-fashioned tolerance.
No, not that PC BS, old-time tolerance – what our parents and grandparents would call ‘thick skin.’
Atheists need to stop being ‘offended’ at every mere mention of something religious.
Theists (for the lack of a better word) need to let atheists say whatever they want, even if they find it insulting.
Religious_Zealot on December 20, 2008 at 11:58 AM
When I was a church goer, two Methodist ministers stated that God’s existence cannot be physically proven; it was what faith was all about. Why is it so hard to accept that there is no proof of God or any god? Some people believe that there is evidence, but that is not proof. Did anyone ever smell smoke, but could never find a fire?
The members of Heaven’s Gate acted on faith in 1997.
Pelayo on December 20, 2008 at 12:13 PM
of course there is proof, it just depends if someone is willing to believe it or not…but you have all the proof you’re going to get. what you do with it is your responsibility…its call free will…and you get to enjoy, or suffer, the consequences…just like every other decision you make..
right4life on December 20, 2008 at 12:18 PM
Clearly God made us all sinners because that’s what he likes. There can be no flaw in the design.
DarkCurrent on December 20, 2008 at 12:26 PM
Thanks for reposting this. I’d missed this exchange the first time and it’s a masterpiece!
DarkCurrent on December 20, 2008 at 12:43 PM
Were those ministers channeling God when they told you that, or were they merely relaying to you their personal belief?
A better question for yourself would be, ‘why is it so hard for me to accept the idea that the necessary proof for God’s existence may indeed exist, and I perhaps I have just missed it because I haven’t been spiritually open enough to see it?’.
Evidence does not equal proof, that’s true, but just because some fact hasn’t been proven to everyone doesn’t mean that that fact hasn’t been proven at all. You need to stop looking to your own experiences only if you wish to know the truth…
So did Peter when he walked on water.
Bizarro No. 1 on December 20, 2008 at 1:29 PM
The belief or idea that the idea or belief of god is false, and that no such entity, as envisioned in its many forms by many different groups throughout the world, exists.
Remember:
“There is no god”
is not the same as
“I don’t believe in god”
MadisonConservative on December 20, 2008 at 1:51 PM
Why can’t there be a flaw in the design? (I ask that seriously while reserving room for your humor) Is there some Universal Dictate which states God must have known everything He would ever know since the beginning of His self-awareness?
Christians who believe in free will and the power of prayer, but who also believe that God doesn’t evolve alongside His Creation don’t understand the New Testament very well, nor the Old for that matter.
Bizarro No. 1 on December 20, 2008 at 1:52 PM
I would, but it’s like tossing a ball into a kitchen with a waxed floor, and watching the dog run after it, slide across the floor towards it, smash headfirst into the wall, and then pick up the ball with pride that it did exactly what I wanted it to do.
MadisonConservative on December 20, 2008 at 1:55 PM
Hey mister going-to-hell, adulterous, non-conservative (did I get them all in?)…
…don’t you ever sleep? (or have work to do?)
/friendly snark
Religious_Zealot on December 20, 2008 at 2:09 PM
By the way, Richard Musa, musar29@yahoo.com, whoever you are, very cute that you hunted down my email address in order to send me insults, but stop cluttering my inbox.
Us 9-5 Monday through Friday heathens tend to be awake and have free time at one on the afternoon on a Saturday, you snake-handling, blood-drinking, Huckabee supporter.
Oooh…that latter descriptor might have been a bit harsh.
MadisonConservative on December 20, 2008 at 2:16 PM
Hey, you better take that back!
There is no escape. Don’t make me destroy you.
Religious_Zealot on December 20, 2008 at 2:27 PM
I’ll never join you!
MadisonConservative on December 20, 2008 at 2:29 PM
I am not sure if you realize it or not that atheism encompasses both of those statements, not just the former. Just because some atheists are religious about their atheism does not mean that they all are, does it?
Bizarro No. 1 on December 20, 2008 at 2:30 PM
You do not yet realize your importance. You have only begun to discover your power. Join me, and I will complete your training. With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to
the galaxyHotAir.Religious_Zealot on December 20, 2008 at 2:33 PM
What do you think admitting that you treated someone like a dog beneath you rather than a human on your level says about your character as a person?
Bizarro No. 1 on December 20, 2008 at 2:34 PM
It seems you haven’t been following along with the class. God exists beyond time. There was no beginning of His self-awareness, as a beginning is a point in time, which He exists beyond. He didn’t wake up confused.
He wants us to sin, and I for one will live by the Will of God.
DarkCurrent on December 20, 2008 at 2:39 PM
Atheism is the assertion that there is no god.
Agnosticism makes no such assertion, only that they do not believe in god.
There is a difference, which I’ve pointed out to the many real and so-called atheists I’ve met in this mecca of atheism(Madison). Some of them re-labeled.
The essence of being sure of the non-existence of any god, as the vast majority of humans think him to be, is faith. So many questions could be answered by his existence, and those questions still have no proven answer. As Penn said in the other post “I know there is no god”. That is the cornerstone of atheism, and to be sure in that assertion requires faith, the cornerstone of religion.
MadisonConservative on December 20, 2008 at 2:39 PM
Where did I state that I’ve done that? If you’re looking to score cheap shots, read more carefully, or take a logic class.
MadisonConservative on December 20, 2008 at 2:40 PM
I will not turn, and you’ll be forced to kill me.
MadisonConservative on December 20, 2008 at 2:42 PM
Interesting, if not completely wrong, theology.
Religious_Zealot on December 20, 2008 at 2:51 PM
That would be quite illogical.
Religious_Zealot on December 20, 2008 at 2:53 PM
Theology is a construct of man, a sort of abstract art. Of course I may be wrong. If so, what is the right theology?
DarkCurrent on December 20, 2008 at 3:02 PM
Theology is a construct of God…
…thus the RIGHT theology is one that is in line with God’s will.
Religious_Zealot on December 20, 2008 at 3:13 PM
Now you’ve lost me.
MadisonConservative on December 20, 2008 at 3:17 PM
As I said:
My theology is perfect
DarkCurrent on December 20, 2008 at 3:20 PM
Think Vulcan.
Religious_Zealot on December 20, 2008 at 4:02 PM
And as I said, your theology is wrong since God does NOT want us to sin.
Religious_Zealot on December 20, 2008 at 4:03 PM
Switching Star Wars to Star Trek on the fly is the very definition of epic fail.
MadisonConservative on December 20, 2008 at 4:15 PM
Only a flawed and imperfect God would design beings that sin by default while not wanting sin. Do you claim God is imperfect and the author of a flawed design?
DarkCurrent on December 20, 2008 at 4:19 PM
God wants us to be perfect… but he knows that,we being in his image, desire freedom… Hence he has decided that we have free will. If you wish to call that his desire to sin… you are a fool and will pay the price he has ordained. We can choose to go to his kingdom. Sounds like a few have decided otherwise. Pay the price. it’s yours to choose.
MNDavenotPC on December 20, 2008 at 4:53 PM
only flawed reasoning would lead you to this conclusion. If the Lord created people that could not sin, there would be no free will…we would in essence be slaves…robots.
and if He designed us without the ability to sin, He could never show His mercy and grace…interesting that He will never show mercy to angels…perhaps because they see Him as He is…
and it results in more glory for Him, and He is justified before all creation…and none will have any excuse for their fate….or His actions…
right4life on December 20, 2008 at 5:12 PM
So God wants us to be perfect, but cannot make us so. Instead we are an imperfect image of an imperfect god. Is that it?
DarkCurrent on December 20, 2008 at 5:24 PM
My reasoning was clearly flawed. I think I’m starting to get it now. God wants us to be imperfect creations so he can show us how perfect he is. Then he can show his mercy and grace. That makes perfect sense. I treated ants the same way when I was a kid.
DarkCurrent on December 20, 2008 at 5:27 PM
Ain’t it fun sorting out the logic?
MadisonConservative on December 20, 2008 at 5:29 PM
its gotten to the point of casting pearls before swine.
right4life on December 20, 2008 at 5:35 PM
we’ll see who has the last laugh…
right4life on December 20, 2008 at 5:36 PM
I have to admit my response fell short. I’ve never created an ant, I’ve just killed some. I’d much rather be able to create them myself first. Here right4life has a point if he can find it.
DarkCurrent on December 20, 2008 at 5:43 PM
Unless he feels on the top of his head, he’s out of luck.
MadisonConservative on December 20, 2008 at 5:45 PM
Does your righteous God laugh at the damned? Even I would expect better…
DarkCurrent on December 20, 2008 at 5:45 PM
What happened to “Judge ye not lest ye be judged?”
Apaca, you are one piece of . . . . . . . . . . . .work.
Pelayo on December 20, 2008 at 5:47 PM
read psalm 2. He laughs at the pretentious…wise in their own eyes type…you know those that think they’re the captain of their destiny!!
sounds a lot like the atheists! and yes He gets the last laugh…and your disapproval means nothing.
right4life on December 20, 2008 at 5:48 PM
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