Ultimate heart-ache: Michelle dumps on atheists
posted at 1:57 pm on December 18, 2008 by Allahpundit
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But affectionately. Sort of. Except for her suggestion that believers treat them like “trolls.” Heh.
I think she’s referring specifically to the sort of jackassery going on at the capitol in Washington, of which neither I nor the other conservative atheist/agnostics I read are fans. But just in case not, I take comfort in knowing that I’ll always have Ayaan.
Exit question: Um, what exactly is Gretchen saying here? Christianity’s going to disappear unless we … take away atheists’ First Amendment rights?
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MadisonConservative on December 19, 2008 at 1:15 AM
Yes
LevStrauss on December 19, 2008 at 1:19 AM
I warned you that my example would be inadequate to capture the enormity of the question.
My collie says:
CyberCipher on December 19, 2008 at 1:19 AM
If you are an atheist, you do not have permission to click this link.
apacalyps on December 19, 2008 at 1:20 AM
I could make a guess about the three…. The only people I’ve ever heard make the claim were creationists conveniently misrepresenting evolutionary theory to further their arguments, when in reality abiogenesis is the pertinent subject.
FloatingRock on December 19, 2008 at 1:20 AM
@ SaintOlaf on December 19, 2008 at 1:18 AM
We get it. Nobody can know God, but believe anyway. There is no evidence for his existence, just have faith. Ignore the contradictions in the bible, focus on the Jesus.
Its tiring and boring. You are trying to get yourself into a position where you cannot be wrong, because everything is so damn abstract and bendable that there is no possible way to prove it right or wrong.
I think the best question to ask you is this. What would it take for you not to believe in God?
I can answer the opposite question for you.
What would it take for me to believe in God? I would believe in a God if a person claiming to be his messenger was able to predict an event far into the future exactly, while making 1 single prediction. No spamming of predictions like Nostradumbass. No predicting something like the sun will rise. Predict an event that nobody else can predict, exactly, so that science cannot explain how you did it. If that happened, then I would believe in your God.
muyoso on December 19, 2008 at 1:24 AM
I have to call it a night Olaf. Don’t you go eating from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil while I’m gone. For if you do you will suddenly become ashamed of yourself.
LevStrauss on December 19, 2008 at 1:27 AM
@ CyberCipher on December 19, 2008 at 1:19 AM
You are trying to ask abstract questions to sound intelligent, and to try and prove your point that God created everything, but you aren’t proving anything other than your inability to defend your position.
PS. Your collie thing makes you 100x more intelligent. And its FUNNY as well.
/sarc
muyoso on December 19, 2008 at 1:28 AM
@ LevStrauss on December 19, 2008 at 1:27 AM
And have TONS and TONS of sex with your rib wife and create the most bitchin incest party in over 6,000 years.
muyoso on December 19, 2008 at 1:29 AM
David Wilkerson has gotten it right a few times.
Rose on December 19, 2008 at 1:30 AM
@ LevStrauss on December 19, 2008 at 1:27 AM
And then have TONS and TONS of sex with your rib wife and create the most fantastic incest party in over 6,000 years.
muyoso on December 19, 2008 at 1:30 AM
You won’t believe in God until you MEET HIM.
The only way you will meet Him is if you seek Him.
If you seek Him you will find Him.
God is not an intellectual idea or a belief system or a moral system…..He is a REALITY!
He is here and now, creating, speaking and upholding.
SaintOlaf on December 19, 2008 at 1:31 AM
But evolution says things like that somehow happen. What? How’s that? Well, evolution says that inanimate (non-living) things somehow gradually change themselves and become alive. It may take a few million or billion years, but time is no factor. We have all the time in the world. Since our pen has to evolve, I wonder if it might somehow evolve into a printer. I mean, ink is used in printers too. That seems like a logical extension given enought time.
apacalyps on December 19, 2008 at 1:32 AM
You make BOLD claims regarding my motivations. You are also rather judgmental about my level of intelligence. Let’s see you back up your claims.
My collie says:
CyberCipher on December 19, 2008 at 1:34 AM
No. It’s showing a willingness to suffer unto death.
Sure, He would rise again. But the fact is, He didn’t have to do it.
Just like a father, even if he’s wearing body armor, who places himself between a bullet and His ungateful brat, is still performing a nobel/loving act.
Probably the worst analogy EVAH. But I’m sticking with it.
soundingboard on December 19, 2008 at 1:35 AM
Not me, aside from a few exceptions, I have a lot of respect for most of the Christians here.
FloatingRock on December 19, 2008 at 1:35 AM
……………… sounds like a good idea to me.
Then there is the point to the second story……….
…………….
AP……… have a very Merry Christmas.
Seven Percent Solution on December 19, 2008 at 1:38 AM
So are you saying that HotAir is New Babylon? :)
FloatingRock on December 19, 2008 at 1:38 AM
Well, then you are NOT the kind of atheist that Michelle Malkin is talking about in the video clip.
CyberCipher on December 19, 2008 at 1:40 AM
CyberCipher give your collie an extra treat for his wonderful insights!
Rose on December 19, 2008 at 1:50 AM
I really hope you’re not relying on one of those “contradictions” lists that infect the internet. If you are, you’re sadly misinformed by incredibly bad scholarship and bias endemic to such lists.
I’ll answer. It would take showing that the universe can exist as an infinite series or that something can come from absolutely nothing. And don’t appeal to quantum mechanics as allowing something from nothing because that would require that such laws exist in some form first, which would not be absolute nothingness. There are also the arguments from rationality and morality and the universal religious experience that would need to be countered, to name just a few that comprise a part of the cumulative case for theism.
The Bible contains prophecy. The controversy comes down to whether or not certain books were written before or after said events. If one has an a priori bias against prophecy and the supernatural it really isn’t suprising that a conclusion is reached that the books were written after said events. That doesn’t really count as objective scholarship and inquiry though.
aikidoka on December 19, 2008 at 1:50 AM
Firstly, your two choices rule is a bit of an oversimplification. But let’s accept your premise for a microd: If something exists, it must have been created by a sentient being.
That still doesn’t explain what force created the creator. Instead of providing a logical explanation to the question of how the universe came to be, your solution has further complicated the issue. You reject the idea that something can either evolve/”make itself” or that existence can be infinite. If your god has always been and did not have a beginning, why can’t life have developed without him? And if that is impossible, how is it that your god does not have a creator?
Finally, in response to your biblical quote and the assertation that there is no scientific reason to reject the Bible – on what grounds is the New Testament more valid than any of the other countless contradictory religious texts that are in existence? There is the same amount of proof (next to none) for all of them.
Sign of the Dollar on December 19, 2008 at 1:52 AM
Hahaha! Okay, I’ve tried to give it up. I’ll keep trying buddy. What else can I do? I’m getting better at it than I used to be.
I would be upset.
I didn’t “accuse” you of anything, friend. I didn’t say that lust originated from the flesh only that I wasn’t sure whether or not non-verbal, non-physical electronic communication constituted a “yearning of the flesh” (i.e. lust).
Besides the context in question was not the Scripture (which I never contested nor would I) but your interpretation of Ms. Esthier’s remarks.
However if I was wrong about the Scripture then I apologise to God.
One last thing:
Would you please stop using the modern PC formulation “he or she”. You are talking to me specifically and I am clearly a man, which you know.
If/when I ever get married I’m certain it will be to a woman and not a man. The word man (and the suffix -man) is linguistically genderless.
aengus on December 19, 2008 at 1:52 AM
BTW, Jesus’s disciples most likely asked him precisely this same question when they finally got a chance to speak with Him after the resurrection.
My collie says:
CyberCipher on December 19, 2008 at 1:52 AM
I tell you what, let’s make a deal. You go out and capture a couple of wild pens, one male and one female, and keep them in a cage until they produce offspring, then we’ll do some experiments and see what happens.
Let me know once the baby pens have been weened and are full of ink.
FloatingRock on December 19, 2008 at 2:01 AM
I never said “evil” wasn’t a part of God’s plan.
For without evil, how would we know that which is good?
The question that always gets the congregation eyeing the woodpile when I ask it is: Why did God create Lucifer knowing Lucifer would revolt”?
I make no claim of knowing the answer.
Mysterious Ways, and all that.
Label the Deity/Entity what you will.
God.
Yahwe.
Christ.
Allah.
Brahma.
The Cosmic Consciousness.
The Omniversal Id.
I can’t look at the complexities of life and not see at the very least an Intelligent Design.
soundingboard on December 19, 2008 at 2:04 AM
Children do not learn to speak on their own. They have to be taught language. How did the first language evolve? Who made up the first words when there was no speech to imitate?
Rose on December 19, 2008 at 2:06 AM
Religious_Zealot, you did not answer my question! Do you know the history of between Esthier and myself? Where did I call Esthier a “whore” in this thread? I want answers to both of these questions.
You have no clue what you are talking about. All through the Bible God calls people fools, brutish, simple, perverse, scorners, wicked, etc. Jesus Himself turned over the tables of the money changers in the temple, and He called religious leaders ‘hypocrites’ and ‘vipers’ to their faces. In Matthew 23:15-29, Jesus pronounces eight “woes” on the scribes (or lawyers) and Pharisees in this chapter. Seven times He calls them “hypocrites” and five times He says that they are “blind”. He calls each a “child of hell” and says that they are like “white sepulchres…full of dead man’s bones, and of all uncleannes” (23:27), and also “full of hypocrisy and iniquity” (23:28). They are, He says, “serpents” and a “generation of vipers” (23:33). One receives the impression that God hates the sin of hypocrisy in religious leaders (phony Christians) more than most sins. This New Testament language used here by the Lord Jesus is as severely condemning as anything found in the Old Testament. The religionists like these that Jesus had rebuked have persecuted genuine believers all through history, especially faithful teachers and preachers. And quite frankly, you are doing the same thing to some of the Christians in this forum. If you were living around the time of Jesus I have no doubt you would have been attacking Him and calling Him a horrible teacher too.
apacalyps on December 19, 2008 at 2:08 AM
Boy, this is a great place to meet atheists!
apacalyps on December 19, 2008 at 2:12 AM
Damn.
Forgot to list The Force.
soundingboard on December 19, 2008 at 2:12 AM
Think carefully apacalyps.
BKennedy on December 19, 2008 at 2:13 AM
How did you get in here? Did someone leave your cage open?
apacalyps on December 19, 2008 at 2:16 AM
Bolded words contradict each other.
MadisonConservative on December 19, 2008 at 2:17 AM
If he doesn’t answer, can I?
I think I know this one.
soundingboard on December 19, 2008 at 2:17 AM
Then why do you think primeval random particles know how to organize themselves into DNA?
apacalyps on December 19, 2008 at 2:20 AM
A question I’ve found myself wanting to ask recently is: why did God plant so much supposedly false evidence indicative of evolution, deduced through logic and reason, (which I understand he is a proponent of), while allowing imperfect men whom barely understood the world around them to write a book full of contradictions and fantastic stories, (which contradict logic and reason), as his only means to draw people to his faith? Was he intentionally trying to mislead people, using the tools he provided and espoused to them, down the wrong path, and to what end?
FloatingRock on December 19, 2008 at 2:25 AM
Ya know, I hadn’t thought of that when I posted. But now I find the similarities in your example to be chillingly uncanny.
soundingboard on December 19, 2008 at 2:26 AM
If SaintOlaf told us that God had told him that He would change the shape of the moon to that of a cross on Christmas day for 24 hours and that happen, it just might do it for me. I would certainly have to give things some further thought.
MB4 on December 19, 2008 at 2:26 AM
Hey, FloatingRock, are you an atheist. Do you believe in evolution?
apacalyps on December 19, 2008 at 2:29 AM
Because of the fact that so many people believe in Him and accept his stories it would appear that his methods were logical, reasonable, and successful.
Rose on December 19, 2008 at 2:29 AM
God is a comedian playing to an audience to afraid to laugh.
MB4 on December 19, 2008 at 2:30 AM
I need to learn to quote, by the time my comments get posted, the comment I’m replying to gets ahead of me.
Rose on December 19, 2008 at 2:31 AM
Boy, these atheists sure get upset. I keep telling them though don’t take it out on me. It’s not my fault nobody shows up at their ‘Atheist Meetings.’
apacalyps on December 19, 2008 at 2:33 AM
Yes and yes.
FloatingRock on December 19, 2008 at 2:35 AM
One of the proofs of the existence of a God and the truthfulness of the stories attributed to Him is that myriads have believed it. They have also believed
the world was flatin Al Gore’s Apocalyptic Global Warming.- Mark Twain
MB4 on December 19, 2008 at 2:35 AM
But there would be far more, through his own methodology of logic and reason, if the bible also relied on it. And why espouse logic and reason and then provide an abundance of evidence to appeal to it but with the intent of misleading down the wrong path?
FloatingRock on December 19, 2008 at 2:38 AM
Because they are a part of The Godhead.
soundingboard on December 19, 2008 at 2:40 AM
So in other words, if got placed evidence in the earth to support evolution, was it an accident or intentional. Of course the story is that it couldn’t have been accidental, so it must have been intentional, and if so, they why shouldn’t God’s evidence of evolution be trusted?
FloatingRock on December 19, 2008 at 2:40 AM
FIFY.
Although really, if you’re bashing God based on apacalyps’ accord, that’s kind of weak, don’t you think?
apacalyps is not the voice of reasonable Christians on this site, nevermind anywhere else.
BKennedy on December 19, 2008 at 2:41 AM
I’d wanna know where
David Copperfield,David Blaine, Criss Angel. was at that time.soundingboard on December 19, 2008 at 2:42 AM
<blockquoteGod is a comedian playing to an audience to afraid to laugh.
MB4 on December 19, 2008 at 2:30 AM
Andy Kaufmann is
soundingboard on December 19, 2008 at 2:43 AM
It’s not hard. Just select what you want to quote, copy and paste into the comment box, then select it there and hit the quote button. That’s all that’s required, though I usually take a few additional steps to make sure it’s formatted correctly because some of the formatting doesn’t carry through, but that’s not important.
FloatingRock on December 19, 2008 at 2:45 AM
To do is to be – Descartes
To be is to do – Voltaire
Do be do be do – Frank Sinatra
MB4 on December 19, 2008 at 2:45 AM
screwed the tags on that 1
soundingboard on December 19, 2008 at 2:45 AM
Well, people of all stripes can get upset. But I’m not. I’ve enjoyed this thread.
FloatingRock on December 19, 2008 at 2:46 AM
Well, he is invisible now, so could be.
MB4 on December 19, 2008 at 2:46 AM
Floating Rock, I have spent over thirty years studying the scriptures (four years of that in a Bible college doing inductive studies, studying the historical evidence, customs and culture of the early Christians, etc.) I do not see a lack of logic and reason. The narrative is quite clear and concise. I do not see it leading down the wrong path.
Rose on December 19, 2008 at 2:49 AM
If so, does Heaven consist of sitting through his bits?
Hmmmmm, where did I put that pentagram?
soundingboard on December 19, 2008 at 2:50 AM
Read the directions and directly you will be directed in the right direction.
Cheshire Cat on December 19, 2008 at 2:51 AM
Go to Heaven for the climate; Hell for the company.
- Mark Twain
MB4 on December 19, 2008 at 2:53 AM
Then explain all of the supposedly false evidence for evolution. Explain why there is no evidence of a great flood that covered the earth and how native American’s survived it and animals from North America traveled to Noah’s Arc. Where did all of the water come from that covered the earth several miles deep, and how did all of the tropical fish survive that are very sensitive to changes in temperature and salinity? I could go on but it’s late.
Most pertinent to the issues of today regard the evidence for evolution.
FloatingRock on December 19, 2008 at 2:55 AM
Thank you, I got it.
Rose on December 19, 2008 at 2:56 AM
No problem. The other buttons work the same way. Select the text and click the button.
FloatingRock on December 19, 2008 at 2:59 AM
Yeah, that’s fine, you get what I’m saying after you attacked me. For what? Nothing. I didn’t do anything wrong, yet had to waste my time defending myself. God knows that I want to be accurate and would never purposely tell a lie to promote my point. I readily confess that I have very little patience with the scoffers after a few exchanges, maybe it is the Elijah personality in me that wants to mock them as in 1 Kings 18:27. But, you should have asked me first before accusing me of a crime I didn’t commit. Proverbs 18:13 says, “He that answereth a matter before he hearth it, it is folly and shame unto him.” Spouting off before listening to the facts is both hameful and foolish. You did it twice with me and twice now you have failed to apologize to me. If you won’t apologize, then please do not send me any more messages. Proverbs 29:23, “A man’s pride shall bring him low: but honour shall uphold the humble in spirit.”
apacalyps on December 19, 2008 at 3:01 AM
Even if you believe in evolution all life would have started in one place. It would then spread out from there. The animals at the time of Noah would have been in the same place. After the flood they would spread out from there. Same results. A lot of the evidence for evolution has been discussed by others. It is mostly a matter of speculation and theory. Most of the fossils are bone fragments and inconclusive.
Rose on December 19, 2008 at 3:02 AM
Christmas is the most wonderful time of the year. Merry Christmas everybody!!!
apacalyps on December 19, 2008 at 3:06 AM
And to all a good night.
Rose on December 19, 2008 at 3:13 AM
Okay. Sorry.
I got my wires crossed.
Now I am tired and I must go to bed. I will talk to you some other time. Goodnight.
aengus on December 19, 2008 at 3:14 AM
Merry Christmas. I still haven’t decorated my tree but I’ll get around to doing it tommorrow… probably.
aengus on December 19, 2008 at 3:15 AM
No, there had been people living in North America for several thousand years before the great flood was supposed to have happened, and animals millions before that. But even if you don’t believe God’s fossil evidence supporting evolution, the evidence supporting human life in North America are actual skeletal remains and the accoutrement’s of civilization.
FloatingRock on December 19, 2008 at 3:17 AM
My lack of absolute faith in evolution comes from the fact it requires abiogenesis. For inorganic things to become organic, in other words. There is no precedent for rocks coming to life, not any species one can point to as transitive between rock and life.
That and the speciousness of the Big Bang Theory at a bare minimum requiring the existence of the universe to somehow begin in a state of hypercondensed energy. The endgame of universal heat death would seem to indicate that such a starting point is unlikely.
Nevermind the mindboggling concept of an infinite universe to begin with. Do you just “hit a dimension wall” or something at the end of the universe? Does anything even contain it?
BKennedy on December 19, 2008 at 3:17 AM
Me too. Goodnight.
FloatingRock on December 19, 2008 at 3:18 AM
You’re describing the Second Law of Thermodynamics which tells us everything tends toward disorder. You leave things alone, they get worse. They don’t get better. The Bible teaches that, “The heavens are the works of the hands: They perish: they wax old as doth a garment” (Hebrews 1:10-11). Left alone things fall apart. Nothing organizes itself. Thank you, muyoso. You just might make a creationist yet!
apacalyps on December 19, 2008 at 3:21 AM
A thought:
It is my observation that many Athiests I know and love have come to their (lack of) belief through honest philisophical inquiry. For many, it isn’t for a lack of wanting to believe in some higher power. It is that their is no personal revelation, no true evidence that tells us that there is some *other* that the physical universe.
I reject Christianists because their religion is a hodgepodge of earlier belief systems and was codified mainly as a power grab by its priests. While it has some rules which promote social harmony, in the end it is a justification for moralism.
If one needs such a belief system to “play well with others,” perhaps it is because a person cannot come to a justifyable and logical code of conduct by themselves. As long as rights are protected and order maintained, I don’t mind. It is when the world is divided into the “us” and the “other” that I get annoyed.
We are all humans with the same problems and possible solutions. There is no need for a higher power to control us or empower us to control others. Some knowledge is beyond our mental ability to truly comprehend. Cosmic time, particle physics, and other deep thoughts are beyond most, if not all of us to understand the way we all understand fire, cold, gravity, etc. Just because there are mysteries which cannot be fully known doesn’t mean that some intellect must exist to understand them.
So much of faith strikes me as a childish wish for a parent figure to take care of us. I understand that need; I have it too. Yet wanting something to be true does not make it so.
Viscount_Bolingbroke on December 19, 2008 at 3:41 AM
Abiogenesis is the spontaneous generation of life from nonliving matter and is clearly part of the evolution theory. According to the theory there was this big bang where nothing exploded and produced everything. Then about 4.6 billions of year ago, the earth cooled down from a hot fiery mass and developed a hard rocky crust. Then about 3 billion years ago the first life formed. This is in dozens of text books. This is precisely what they teach. And from there the first life form found someone to marry, and something to eat, and slowly evolved into everything we see today. So life evolving from non-living matter (Abiogenesis) is part of the evolution theory. Madison, I will gladly discuss any topic or question with anyone, friend or foe, but not if they lie. A few messages ago you said that you weren’t going to message me anymore. Please keep to your word. Mind your own business. Leave me alone.
apacalyps on December 19, 2008 at 3:48 AM
Apology accepted. No hard feelings. :-)
Merry Christmas! As we prepare to celebrate our dear Saviour’s birth.
apacalyps on December 19, 2008 at 3:51 AM
He called the Pharisees “children of snakes” to their faces, and Paul had no problem with describing the filthy Corinthinas:
“Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you…”
TMK on December 19, 2008 at 5:25 AM
A woman from a rib , sounds like they were deep into stem cell experimenting back then. And then the sex lured them away from science..
the_nile on December 19, 2008 at 5:46 AM
Athiests can not and will not understand Christianity! They lack faith which is a gift of God. Without faith of course Christianity is nonsense. However, I challenge these heroic messengers of logic to stand and deliver their message of humanism against all other religions! Especially the muslim faith! Still waiting…crickets chirping…3…2…1… Didn’t think so! I guess they aren’t all that brave after all. It is interesting isn’t it that it is only Christianity that is attacked. I wonder why…
sabbott on December 19, 2008 at 5:54 AM
I was just sampling a cross-section of last night’s comments and came across this — and found it jaw-droppingly stunning. If you are “happy being in awe at the wonder of it all”, that puts you in with some of the less-inquisitive Christians I know — the ones who think God never intended them to think, just uncritically swallow whatever the preacher says. Surely you didn’t really mean what you said; I mean, that’s the one thing I generally find admirable about serious atheists: their desire to understand the machine, even though they think the machine is a purely natural phenomenon.
RegularJoe on December 19, 2008 at 7:30 AM
I’ve read every post on this thread and there are some real braniacs posting here! So rather than a belief in a Supreme God who created everything that currently exists, you prefer to believe that everything that currently exists somehow just “happened” and that out of non-life came life from some primordial ooze and that from this simple “organism” an evolutionary model was implemented leading to our current state? WOW! You have much greater faith than my simple believe in God and Jesus Christ. Merry Christmas to you!
sabbott on December 19, 2008 at 7:47 AM
Here is what Paul had to say about himself:
Paul was only horrible when it came to persecuting followers of Jesus. But Paul became the “vessel” to the Gentiles:
Paul, a Hebrew of the Hebrews, wrote most of the New Testament, became the greatest voice for Jesus that ever lived. Paul never stopped being a Jew – he recognized his Messiah, as predicted by the OT prophets.
abcurtis on December 19, 2008 at 8:19 AM
Not true, muyoso. We CAN know God by his Word. As far as predictions, the prophet Daniel predicted to the day the Messiah would enter Jerusalem, Isaiah predicted where the Messiah would be born, Jeremiah predicted the coming Messiah, as did the other OT prophets. All of the predictions of the OT prophets happened except one – the return of the Messiah to bring judgment and set up His 1000 year kingdom. All the other happened, there is no reason to believe this wont happen too.
May I make a suggestion? Just sit down with an easily read copy of Scripture. Although it’s a paraphrase, I recommend the New Living Translation, and read the book of John, then the Psalms. You dont have to believe, just take what they say into consideration.
What would it take for me NOT to believe in God? Well, the only thing I can thing of is, when I die and there is nothing. Then I can say, Well, I was wrong. But what have I lost trying to live a life along the principles Jesus set forth? I’ve loved my neighbor as myself, I’ve practiced the golden rule.
As far as evidence for a Creator, I see it every day. Creation and the Heavens declare the Glory of God. It is impossible for all of this to just “happen.” Everything is much too complicated for that.
But what if you’re wrong, muyoso? What will you have lost?
abcurtis on December 19, 2008 at 8:30 AM
Well, I’ve studied a lot of theology, in fact I have a degree in theology, but I’ve never heard of “Divine Uncreated Energies.” With all due respect, Olaf, could you enlighten me as to what this is?
Thanks in advance.
abcurtis on December 19, 2008 at 8:38 AM
abcurtis on December 19, 2008 at 8:30 AM
Extremely well stated, Brother. As Ralph Waldo Emerson wrote:
kingsjester on December 19, 2008 at 9:01 AM
Thanks for the reminder as to why I gave up on Fox News about 3 years ago. Why Michelle lowers herself to go on that tabloid channel is beyond me.
Krydor on December 19, 2008 at 9:07 AM
Really? Ever seen a snowflake?
LimeyGeek on December 19, 2008 at 9:08 AM
Well, FR, I watched a show on the History Channel one night (I tried to find the link on History.com but couldnt), and scientists, yes, that is what they called themselves, said quote –
How exactly does this happen? I kept hoping they would explain that, but they never did.
By their line of reasoning, your theory about the inanimate pens is perfectly valid. That if given long enough your two lifeless pens “could” come together and “form” life. The words of the scientists, not mine. But the bottom line is the pens had to originate someplace didnt they?
Yesterday on the National Geographic Channel, scientists (again) talked about how life on earth possibly came from Mars. First, where did the life on Mars come from ? Second, how did it get here? Third, how did it survive the vacuum and cold of space? Fourth, how did it evolve into what we are now?
One more question – the pens were created were they not? Everything in them is designed and built to make a writing instrument. Would you agree that none of their elements just “happened” to be, then somehow magically came together? Or would you agree that somebody sat down and designed a pen and put it together? And why cant the same principle apply to living beings, even plants? How can something come from nothing?
I ask these questions with all due respect, and would love to debate further at my blog, Circuit Preacher.
abcurtis on December 19, 2008 at 9:09 AM
As usual, you’re the liar. I said I’d give your posts as little attention I’ve give r4l’s. Which is very little, but enough to enjoy your dancing monkey routine.
MadisonConservative on December 19, 2008 at 9:10 AM
Oh I’m an inquisitive scientist alright, and love unraveling mysteries and using mathematics to model reality.
I specifically referred to “the ultimate question”…”how did it all begin?”. I do not give a flying monkey nut about that question. I do not even accept it as a valid question. What makes us think there was a ‘beginning’? What makes us think that there was a point in time when reality didn’t exist? What makes us think that our human metric of ‘time’ has any meaning outside the human sphere.
Before we start asking such simplistic “ultimate” questions, there are far more interesting existential inquiries to make.
LimeyGeek on December 19, 2008 at 9:13 AM
PS. 10 pages? Never thought that would happen
/sarc
LimeyGeek on December 19, 2008 at 9:14 AM
At this most blessed time of the year in our wonderful Nation I can’t help but look around at all the joys and grace that God has given me and my family. I am truly a lucky man. I have a loving and faithful Wife of 24 years, a 16 y/o Son who wants to becaome a US Marine and then a Police Officer, a wonderful dream home that we worked hard to save for in the Mountains of Northeastern NJ, my health, my World of Warcraft friends and my freinds here at Hot Air and in the Conservative movement. As in life we all suffer setbacks and heartaches, the election of BHO this year is but one we have suffered and survived. Looking ahead to 2009 Conservatives have our plates full, we need leadership, focus and direction. Clear, concise, bold promises to America, family values, smaller Gov., a strong and supported Military and secure borders. We pray for such leaders to emerge and lead our great America back from the brink, back to a strong force for God, Family, Freedoms and Liberty. Morals that reflect Gods word, strengths that have been passed to us from generation to generation, gratitude for all the good and noble deeds Americans have done for our World. Time has come America… Our survival is at stake… Christian Conservatives need to rise and stand…
I wish to you all the blessings of this Christmas, the birth of our Lord, Jesus Christ, and the peace of spirit he can offer you. I pray for all those suffering, the homeless, the lost… The Liberal and the Republican, black and white, young and old, rich and poor. I pray for our wonderful Military, that they may find strength and comfort as they fight for ALL free peoples of the World. I pray for BHO to seek Gods love and advice and council. May God continue to bless America and your families this season and beyond. Peace. Love. Joy. to you all…
Mark Garnett on December 19, 2008 at 9:15 AM
Have faith, my child.
MadisonConservative on December 19, 2008 at 9:15 AM
And how exactly did Jesus and his disciples profit from that lie, muyoso? Did any of them die rich and influential? Not that we know of. Would you hang nailed to a cross, after a flogging for any reason? I wouldnt. As I’ve said, I’ve lost nothing by believing in him.
Btw – I know you’ll want to debate this, but death was defeated at the cross.
abcurtis on December 19, 2008 at 9:17 AM
I have to chuckle at this, because it is fun. Btw, muyoso, if we are the product of incest, arent you and I brothers (or you could be my sister, I dont know your gender)?
Now, explain this to me. If as evolutionists believe, we came from a common ape-man ancestor, then who would that progeny have to mate with? Would it not HAVE to be a close relative, ie, brother or sister? Then it would seem that created or evolved, we all are product of incest. Riddle me that one, Batman.
abcurtis on December 19, 2008 at 9:21 AM
Point for abcurtis on December 19, 2008 at 9:21 AM
1 – Love
Mark Garnett on December 19, 2008 at 9:23 AM
In some respects, that is true. People do p*** and moan about their lot in life because that’s human nature. And God does listen. But God does not micro-manage our lives. We have to take responsibility for our own actions.
And every time God brought pain and suffering (judgment) it was when His people turned from Him and worshiped false gods. This is why Israel was exiled into Babylon. They had plenty of notice but ignored it. The same is true for us today. We can have the peace that Jesus offers, or we can have the pain and suffering afterwards. we’ve been given plenty of notice. I’ll take the peace now, thank you very much, because I’ve already been judged.
abcurtis on December 19, 2008 at 9:30 AM
Wow, Mark, in the words of one of my seminary instructors, Good Word.
The same back to you and your family.
abcurtis on December 19, 2008 at 9:32 AM
Why does any force have to create the Creator? Why cant the Creator be infinite with no beginning and no end?
As far as the NT being contradictory, could you point out a couple of places? Even Eusebius and Josephus discussed in their writings events that are also recorded in the NT.
Other culture’s and religion’s writings do contradict themselves because they are not God-breathed, as is the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures.
abcurtis on December 19, 2008 at 9:44 AM
1000 comments…Allah has succeeded once again.
MadisonConservative on December 19, 2008 at 9:49 AM
Carl Sagan said in his book, Cosmos, the universe is all there ever was, all there ever is, and all there ever will be. Sagan was a humanistic athiest. He was describing God, he just didnt realize it because the Universe was his god.
abcurtis on December 19, 2008 at 9:52 AM
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