Ultimate heart-ache: Michelle dumps on atheists
posted at 1:57 pm on December 18, 2008 by Allahpundit
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But affectionately. Sort of. Except for her suggestion that believers treat them like “trolls.” Heh.
I think she’s referring specifically to the sort of jackassery going on at the capitol in Washington, of which neither I nor the other conservative atheist/agnostics I read are fans. But just in case not, I take comfort in knowing that I’ll always have Ayaan.
Exit question: Um, what exactly is Gretchen saying here? Christianity’s going to disappear unless we … take away atheists’ First Amendment rights?
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Are you and The Boss BFFs?
BadgerHawk on December 18, 2008 at 1:59 PM
Not all atheists are going to hell.
Only those who don’t believe in God. heh heh
Sugar Land on December 18, 2008 at 2:00 PM
Sorry to also dump on you Allahpundit. But you know we love you. But not in that Barney Frank sort of way. Eww.
BKennedy on December 18, 2008 at 2:01 PM
Most of the problem is trying to use political means to promote the kingdom of God.
windbag on December 18, 2008 at 2:02 PM
I still pray for you everyday, Allah.
tre on December 18, 2008 at 2:04 PM
Don’t be too hurt Allah, after all she did say “some of here best friends are atheists” so I’m certain you are included in that circle…but here’s a tissue anyway.
Also, just tell MM that you have repented after seeing the light of the TPIR MIRACLE….hallelujah and pass the ammo!!
Liberty or Death on December 18, 2008 at 2:04 PM
I still maintain that the sign is only incendiary because it is not the opinion held by the majority, and the reaction is comparable to any number of Islamic mouthpieces crying over their latest offense. If you’re confident the sign is wrong, and it merely expresses a belief, why are you threatened?
Note: I like Christmas, I’m not an atheist, and I do find the timing to be underhanded and crass. However, I don’t believe the first amendment is suspended just because someone is a dick.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 2:07 PM
I didn’t think they were advocating to get rid of an atheist’s right to voice their opinion.
The Fox chick was taking this as a serious threat to the existence of Christianity & Malkin was taking a less hard line on it.
Gretchen was clearly upset & I think she had a point about atheists possibly using a commandment to get their point across.
Either way-Atheists have no way of knowing whether God exists or not, just like everyone else. So to those of us with faith, atheists are merely laughable. Annoying, bu laughable.
This is why those of true faith need to live by example. That is the surest way to show others that Christianity works.
Badger40 on December 18, 2008 at 2:08 PM
I suspect most believers feel pity for atheists more than anything.
BigD on December 18, 2008 at 2:10 PM
…we’re all just getting along…not believing in God is something the individual has to deal with…if the atheist takes it into his or her head to begin commenting on the beliefs of others, the door’s open for dialogue, and I’d hope that believers would be honest in their opinions….
…but I can’t think of a more un-Christian thing to do than to dump on unbelievers…or on anyone else, for that matter…remember the “bruised reed and the smoking wick”, folks…the road to life may be had and the gate narrow, but it doesn’t have to be pissy, brutal, and lined with land mines….
…you can’t hammer someone into faith…in fact, you can’t effect their faith at all…faith is a gift of grace…the best you can do is keep a fire burning and a safe place open for those who come to faith…for those who don’t, let ‘em see a friendly face as they walk by, on their way down….
Puritan1648 on December 18, 2008 at 2:11 PM
LOL…she’s just a bit dipsy, I’d say.
I don’t think Christianity or atheism are going anywhere. They’re here to stay.
The fact that they want to fight and get in each other’s faces and business is sad. It would be funny…if it weren’t so freakin’ sad. Are people just bored? Not enough hobbies? Not enough attention as children? sheesh
That was a great segment Michelle! Well done….again.
bridgetown on December 18, 2008 at 2:12 PM
I think the reason it is so incendiary is because it isn’t a symbol as the nativity scene is but rather a written attack. If these people had come up with some sort of symbol, maybe a stature of Darwin, I don’t think the outcry would be as great. It would still be there, but not nearly so angry.
Rose on December 18, 2008 at 2:12 PM
The GOP’s massive crack in the middle, right here at HotAir. Palinistas versus anti-Palinists. “Intellectuals” versus “street folk”. AP versus Michelle. Hardcore religious people Vs. the others, and so on
Baphomet on December 18, 2008 at 2:13 PM
As a Christian missionary, I did not buy her argument in the slightest :P
Christianity is in China, where if you’re caught in non-authorized worship sessions, you’re executed.
Christianity does well, even in places where it’s persecuted. So her comments are a little alarmists.
Not to mention the whole “This is serious business!” – But I love the guy’s response to that. “Yeah with Rudolf, there’s no kidding around.”
apollyonbob on December 18, 2008 at 2:15 PM
I always knew MM was a religious person, but not so petty as to throw all atheists under the bus. She respects others’ right to their (non)beliefs.
These atheists have every right to do what they’re doing, but their approach does make them look like assclowns.
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 2:16 PM
GOD scares some people.
44Magnum on December 18, 2008 at 2:16 PM
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 2:07 PM
Exactly right or they would have shut up Olby and Chrissie a long time ago. But it wasn’t the greatest P.R. move I’ve ever seen.
Countdown until Noneya calls all of us stupid and the Bible a Fairy Tale in 5…4…3…2…
kingsjester on December 18, 2008 at 2:16 PM
Allah — You’re so going to Heaven. God LOVES your sense of humor!
D2Boston on December 18, 2008 at 2:17 PM
Yeah, but the beer will awesome and the conversations scintillating!
albo on December 18, 2008 at 2:18 PM
Memo to any atheist who feel the need to bash and ridicule Christians on this holiday:
Christmas is a Federally recognized and observed holiday.
If you don’t like it Get the F’ out.
Keep your childish whining and mockery to yourself.
saltydogg14 on December 18, 2008 at 2:18 PM
“Some of my best friends are atheists”. Michelle’s pretty self-aware — Did she mean that as a joke? Like, some of my best friends are black? Treat atheists like trolls? What if an atheist/troll ran a popular right-wing blog? And maintained its headlines in a most excellent way too?
Isn’t it the nature of atheists to be troll-like? Bereft of belief, they will focus on the beliefs of others? Even defining themselves in terms of not believing in what others believe? From that vantage point it’s hard not to fall into trolldom.
Paul-Cincy on December 18, 2008 at 2:18 PM
“You’re an atheist but you use one of the ten commandments to make your point”.
STARTS WITH A STUPID BANG AND GOES FROM THERE!
Dave Rywall on December 18, 2008 at 2:20 PM
You call it an attack, but it was merely a statement of their beliefs, uncolored. The general Christian view is that Christ was the son of their god, there is only their god, all other beliefs are wrong, and those who refuse to believe are sinful, blind, and have empty hearts. I’m not offended by this on either side, because that’s your belief, and the core to any belief is that you are right and everyone who disagrees is wrong. The Christmas tree represents the Christian view, and whatever symbol that would be used for atheism would represent the atheistic view.
I think we all need to learn to stop jumping into the “I’m offended” pool and start showing the same respect for other beliefs that we demand for our own.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 2:20 PM
I bet the jewish people are just glad to be left alone for a season every year.
lol, I’m kidding.
bridgetown on December 18, 2008 at 2:20 PM
I never know what she says, as on the occasions when I’m in some hotel around the country when she’s on, I always turn the TV down, or switch channels. She and the blond from the View are the two conservatives I can easily live without. Forget conservatism. It embarrasses me that they represent us women.
Entelechy on December 18, 2008 at 2:21 PM
I haer there is this pleasant, sleepy little place reserved for us well away from all of the screaming and fire.
Count to 10 on December 18, 2008 at 2:22 PM
Hey Allah, does MM treat you like a troll?
snaggletoothie on December 18, 2008 at 2:22 PM
Entelechy on December 18, 2008 at 2:21 PM
lol I agree. And I always thought you were a man, Entelechy. sorry. :)
bridgetown on December 18, 2008 at 2:22 PM
The Archbiship of Canterbury might cave at the sight of a atheist poster, but most Christians will find such a thing insignificant.
tmitsss on December 18, 2008 at 2:22 PM
Atheism is as much a religion as Christianity. Everybody worships something.
BigD on December 18, 2008 at 2:23 PM
You have no clue what the sign says or you wouldn’t post such an asinine comment.
Google it and then come back here for a chit-chat.
saltydogg14 on December 18, 2008 at 2:23 PM
Well as a non- believer myself, never understood the rational of putting down people who do believe in religion. I for one am happy with anyone who finds something to believe in or have faith in,”other than the government”..which makes that person a better person.
MDWNJ on December 18, 2008 at 2:24 PM
You should read Ace’s post.
The point is that Christians don’t have a sign up there that reads, “Merry Christmas – If you don’t believe in Christ you’re going to burn in hell”
You know?
Whenever athiests demand recognition, it almost never comes with a positive, only a negative – anyway, Ace wrote all this here:
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/279837.php
apollyonbob on December 18, 2008 at 2:24 PM
Except that true aethism can’t be defended.
subbottomfeeder on December 18, 2008 at 2:24 PM
Allahpundit is a man with no invisible means of support.
MB4 on December 18, 2008 at 2:24 PM
What do atheists worship?
aengus on December 18, 2008 at 2:24 PM
Atheism is as much a religion as
Christianitybaldness is a hair color.fixed that for you
albo on December 18, 2008 at 2:25 PM
John Derbyshire has (jokingly?) described himself as “Stinkweed Boy” before in a Corner Post. He does have a certain dour wit, although that may just be the British. I find him hilarious at times.
BKennedy on December 18, 2008 at 2:25 PM
I’m sorry Madison buy I have to disagree. The sign is an attack. Look at the words. The sign says that those who believe have hard hearts. That is not a statement of their believe or lack of as much as it is an attack. The nativity scene has been a part of our culture for decades. Let the atheists find a comparable symbol and let them display it.
Rose on December 18, 2008 at 2:26 PM
That is condescending.
This is much more christian.
Nothing to be sorry about. You’re not the only one. I take that to mean something good, unless someone argues to the contrary :)
Entelechy on December 18, 2008 at 2:26 PM
Do Christians not believe that if you are not Christian, that you are blind, deaf, and alone, and your heart is empty? If they believe that, then a symbol of their belief represents that. I repeat: every religion believes that you are wrong if you don’t believe the same. Getting offended over that is going to be a huge problem in this nation where we’re supposed to be able to speak our beliefs without preference by the government for one over the other.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 2:27 PM
Themselves, technically. They believe that they have the knowledge that there is no higher power or intelligence than they.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 2:28 PM
Entelechy on December 18, 2008 at 2:21 PM
lol I agree. And I always thought you were a man, Entelechy. sorry. :)
bridgetown on December 18, 2008 at 2:22 PM
semloh on December 18, 2008 at 2:29 PM
I wouldn’t pretend to know. Themselves, probably. Ask AP.
BigD on December 18, 2008 at 2:29 PM
1) As I understood it, these were not atheist signs, they were anti-Christian signs.
2) Nice to know something else about the mysterious Allahpundit. Why is your name Allahpundit?
ashleymatt on December 18, 2008 at 2:30 PM
Heere Contynueth the Tale of Asse-Hatte
Heere Begynneth. (props to Iowahawk)
BKennedy on December 18, 2008 at 2:30 PM
Do they ‘worship’ anything?
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 2:31 PM
Again, the sign represent their beliefs. Why would a symbol that represents the same beliefs offend you any less? Because you’re not actually facing the truth of what they believe? That seems disingenuous, with all respect. Christians believe if you don’t have Christ in your heart, you are empty and alone. I see that as just as potentially offensive as saying you have a hard heart.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 2:31 PM
Come on folks.
To make Christians look bad, athiests obviously were the ones to steal the sign
ToddonCapeCod on December 18, 2008 at 2:32 PM
Not intended to be.
BigD on December 18, 2008 at 2:33 PM
We have laugh now, but when we die and go to Heaven and don’t find any god there, we’ll know those atheists were right.
frankj on December 18, 2008 at 2:33 PM
Slightly off topic, but……does anyone else think Gretchen is just a complete and utter lightweight/airhead? I seriously cannot watch F&F in the morning, almost everything she says I find cringe-worthy. For that matter, Doocy and Kilmeade are almost as bad. I say bring Alyson Camerota and the weekend crew to weekdays, and kick the current “curvy couch” triumvirate to the curb.
Puddleglum on December 18, 2008 at 2:34 PM
Not intended to be.
BigD on December 18, 2008 at 2:33 PM
You have a social disorder if you didn’t see that as condescending.
frankj on December 18, 2008 at 2:34 PM
Darwin’s ugly mug? No thanks.
Atheism doesn’t lend itself to symbols very well, and we are as varied as all theists put together. Its sort of like if a Shintoist wanted your support for setting up a shrine to Amaterasu as a way of showing your unity as theists.
Count to 10 on December 18, 2008 at 2:34 PM
“A day without athiests”…hahahaha….
JetBoy on December 18, 2008 at 2:35 PM
God does not exists. He is being itself beyond essence and existence. Therefor to argue that God exists is to deny Him.
Tav on December 18, 2008 at 2:35 PM
That’s the right attitude to take.
I’m not a fan of the sign and would have chosen something different myself, but I really don’t see what the big deal is. It’s just a sign.
FloatingRock on December 18, 2008 at 2:35 PM
Well don’t know if i am an atheist in the true sense of the word. But i worship, a good steak, and a cold beer.
MDWNJ on December 18, 2008 at 2:35 PM
.
That is exactly why it is illogical view/belief to hold.
subbottomfeeder on December 18, 2008 at 2:36 PM
It occurs to me that this is the pop-culture/Hollywood vision of heaven.
Count to 10 on December 18, 2008 at 2:36 PM
Well, hey, Merry Christmas to you, too.
BigD on December 18, 2008 at 2:36 PM
No problem with atheism as a philosophy. Big problems with the sign the atheists decided to use. Could have put a lot more thought into it. May have decided that humanism was a better direction. Instead of alienating believers and non-believers by a derogatory message the sign posters could have used a tactful and upbeat message. To follow up with a bible verse, which I assume the sign posters think is witty, is just making atheists become the brunt of a lot of jokes. I do pity the sign posters, not so much for the abuse they set themselves up for (my thought of this is yes they may have had as much a right to put a sign up as any religion),but rather that they consider themselves as belonging to a religion, instead of a philosophy. IMHO these are different animals altogether. First the sign makes note of honoring the winter solstice, and then goes on to derogatorily claim that every other belief system,including paganism is summarily fake.
Atheists-next time try something like-
“We believe in the power of human kindness”, or “We believe in you”. Follow it up with- “May your future years be brighter than the previous”, or “Enjoy your days off-volunteer“.
canditaylor68 on December 18, 2008 at 2:37 PM
i always though a Galápagos Finch would be a good symbol
albo on December 18, 2008 at 2:37 PM
Madison, I don’t understand why don’t see the sign as an attack. It is. The nativity sign is not an attack. It is a symbol of the season. Yes, there is a message behind it but the message is not written out so as to offend. The sign obviously is. If the sign simply stated that we atheists do not believe the message of the season, that they do not believe in God then fine, but they continued by sating that religion hardens hearts and enslaves minds. This is an attack. It is not appropriate to place a written attack next to a symbol of the season.
Rose on December 18, 2008 at 2:38 PM
There’s no reason to mock or whine when you’re such a great job all on your own with no help from anyone.
Speakup on December 18, 2008 at 2:38 PM
He has the impudence to keep himself a secret from us all
And the arrogance to make us guess
No, you should not care to know his identity nor his address
PercyB on December 18, 2008 at 2:40 PM
I’ll just put this out there, if Atheist are right, no harm done, but if Christians are right… well I think that’s what Atheist fear the most and why they feel the need to attack those of religion (although it seems they only attack Christians, never seen an anti-ramadan sign or anti-hannuhkah one), what say you AP?
saltydogg14 on December 18, 2008 at 2:40 PM
Obviously, because he worships Allah :)
No. See
Entelechy on December 18, 2008 at 2:40 PM
I don’t see it as any more illogical than believing there’s an invisible man in the sky. They’re both beliefs based on faith.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 2:40 PM
Try here. ;)
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 2:41 PM
If I do not believe atheists exist, does that mean every day is a day without atheists?
BKennedy on December 18, 2008 at 2:42 PM
The point is often not to participate in the act of worship, as it demeans the self.
On the other hand, this could beg the question of “what is worship.” Is it self humiliation to beg for favor or ward off punishment, as the word is used in reference to one human worshiping another, or is it more like meditation or deep thought, which seems to match more with how devoted Christians use it with respect to their deity?
Count to 10 on December 18, 2008 at 2:42 PM
The creation, but not the Creator??
I’m just guessing. I’m but a fool.
bridgetown on December 18, 2008 at 2:42 PM
I’ll presume that nobody here believes in the tooth fairy.
Would you describe your non-belief as a ‘religion’? Would you say it takes ‘faith’ to not believe?
LimeyGeek on December 18, 2008 at 2:42 PM
How do we know AP is an atheist as opposed to an agnostic?
toliver on December 18, 2008 at 2:42 PM
Thats a pretty good description of environmentalist atheists to take just one group.
aengus on December 18, 2008 at 2:44 PM
I just call it as I see it, whether it’s rude or not (I have a social disorder).
frankj on December 18, 2008 at 2:44 PM
And what if some alien race we have never imagined is right, and we are all going to oiqwehbg for eternal torture with the occasional break for tea?
Count to 10 on December 18, 2008 at 2:45 PM
So what you’re acknowledging is that if there was a sign that explicitly stated Christian views on non-believers, that it would be just as offensive as the atheist sign? See, I don’t see either of them as offensive, because they’re both asserting unprovable claims. We’re supposed to respect them both. If you don’t like it, you can try and find a country where they don’t allow faiths other than yours. Here, we didn’t like that idea.
And again, I find it disingenuous that just because a symbol doesn’t explicitly state what someone believes, that it doesn’t hold the exact same meaning. Christmas is a Christian holiday. It’s an event rooted in the Christian faith. A symbol of that event is a symbol of the faith. If you don’t see it as such, then that symbol is meaningless.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 2:45 PM
Intellect, reason, I guess. Don’t get me wrong, that’s high on my list, but it can be so boring, not to mention so uninspiring and depressing having the human condition as the major preoccupation. Humans? They’re so icky, and so often do dumb things like elect Barak Obama. Who can stand them? No, I’ll take a God who keeps me on my toes.
JiangxiDad on December 18, 2008 at 2:46 PM
I don’t feel like clicking on that, but given your abysmal understanding of the first amendment, I’m gonna go with no.
Darth Executor on December 18, 2008 at 2:46 PM
I believe in the tooth fairy. I have BEEN the tooth fairy!
:)
bridgetown on December 18, 2008 at 2:46 PM
FIFY.
TMK on December 18, 2008 at 2:47 PM
Heh, no, because on most days you visit HA’s AP threads. You do believe that AP exists, and you even like him. I like that the two of you coexist, intelligently.
Entelechy on December 18, 2008 at 2:48 PM
or the Zoroastrians? After all, it was the largest religion in the world at one time. What if they were right?
albo on December 18, 2008 at 2:48 PM
The appropriate analog would be something like a graphic depicting the history of the universe, or maybe just the planet, as reconstructed by science.
But maybe an analogy isn’t really what would have been appropriate.
Count to 10 on December 18, 2008 at 2:48 PM
One thing that is important to this discussion is that we should take our passions about our personal faiths out of the equation and look at this objectively. People like saltydogg, representing militant fundamentalism, need to consider that.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 2:48 PM
Count to 10 on December 18, 2008 at 2:45 PM
Then it would be just like my last marriage.
kingsjester on December 18, 2008 at 2:49 PM
No, they worship vanity. They may think they worship intellect or reason but it doesn’t really show. They’re just as dumb as everybody else.
Darth Executor on December 18, 2008 at 2:49 PM
I’m not sure. I don’t remember if an afterlife was part of their mythology–that seems to have come from the Egyptians by way of the Greeks.
Count to 10 on December 18, 2008 at 2:49 PM
By his claim. No matter what we believe, we can grant that he stands by his own. America is great in this regard, still.
Entelechy on December 18, 2008 at 2:49 PM
How about a statue of someone flipping off Baby Jesus? Will that make so-called believers less insecure than reading the pronouncements of some nameless person that they have absolutely no respect for?
Why focus so much attention on people that most of you would be more than happy to run over if you saw them walking across the street? I expect that ditz Gretchen to be insecure but Malkin? I imagine she must be taking that tone simply to keep the banner ads flowing on her web sites.
grdred944 on December 18, 2008 at 2:50 PM
People who don’t believe in the tooth fairy rarely infiltrate public schools and demand all references to fairies and teeth be removed and make Darwin’s “Origin of Pocket Change” the defacto curriculum.
TMK on December 18, 2008 at 2:51 PM
No, we don’t believe that. And while I understand your point, I think there is a big difference between a positive, spirit of the season type message like a nativity (which is celebratory in nature) and a sign which is basically saying people of faith are stupid.
BadgerHawk on December 18, 2008 at 2:51 PM
If the symbol is meaningless than why make a sign to attack it? It’s the deliberate intent of the makers of the sign to attack the symbol. The offense is in the attitude of the makers of the signs. It is their lack of class, actually. Their determination to offend. It has nothing to do with whether or not I want to live in this country. Your statement is as offensive as the sign. I thought you had more class than that. Your statement is a lack of respect for my opinion.
Rose on December 18, 2008 at 2:51 PM
-sigh-
Haven’t we had enough Christian vs. atheist threads lately?
BTW – I haven’t seen noneya in a while. I wonder if he/she/it has been put in time-out?
Religious_Zealot on December 18, 2008 at 2:52 PM
This I can believe. I don’t recall them claiming otherwise, and as long as we stick to this universal possibility, I think we’ve all got much to be enlightened about.
Sadly, I think we’re regressing in this century, as a ‘humanity’, unless I attributed too much “civilization” to us toward the end of the last century.
Entelechy on December 18, 2008 at 2:52 PM
Whoa. Seriously off-track thinking here.
MadisonConservative on December 18, 2008 at 2:53 PM
I hate to be serious about a serious topic, but they come in a variety of stripes. Some are indeed great intellects surely. Many others, or course, are mad at their parents, or hated the nuns in Catholic school, or are mad at god for being gay, etc. And I assume there are plenty of “religious people” who just go through the motions, and don’t believe in anything either. Fwiw, I think Obama’s an atheist. So much for America not being willing to elect an atheist.
JiangxiDad on December 18, 2008 at 2:53 PM
The answer to The Ultimate Question is simple then:
If I do not belive in atheists, to prove it I must search every corner of the known universe.
The internet is a vast corner of the known universe.
Athiests can be found on the internet.
Therefore:
Is someone does not believe in God, to prove it they must search every corner of the known universe.
The internet is a vast corner of athe known iniverse.
God can be found on the internet. (Ask George Bush or somethin’)
It is so clear to me now.
BKennedy on December 18, 2008 at 2:54 PM
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