Still on IE?
posted at 11:15 am on December 17, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
For those still on Microsoft Internet Explorer, perhaps now would be a good time to consider other options. Hackers have found a hole in IE’s security that stretches through versions 5 through 8 beta, and experts have a fix — find another browser:
Users of Microsoft’s Internet Explorer are being urged by experts to switch to a rival until a serious security flaw has been fixed.
The flaw in Microsoft’s Internet Explorer could allow criminals to take control of people’s computers and steal their passwords, internet experts say. …
Microsoft says it has detected attacks against IE 7.0 but said the “underlying vulnerability” was present in all versions of the browser.
Other browsers, such as Firefox, Opera, Chrome, Safari, are not vulnerable to the flaw Microsoft has identified.
Microsoft says it will have an emergency patch ready quickly to end the exploit of its system. They disagreed with recommendations to stop using the browser, saying — I’m not making this up — “I cannot recommend people switch due to this one flaw,” said John Curran, head of Microsoft UK’s Windows group. One flaw? That’s a might big singularity, and the fact that it doesn’t occur on other browsers and that it does on several versions of IE reflects poorly on Microsoft’s programmers and researchers.
I stopped using IE a few months ago. It’s easier for me to use two different browsers, one for web surfing and the other for blog management tools. I prefer Firefox for the latter, but used to use IE for surfing until I became so frustrated with its bugs and hangs that I just couldn’t stand using it. I flirted with Safari, which also was a bit buggy but not bad. Later, I settled on Opera and have had no problems at all with its operation. It’s now my default browser.
After this, I suspect that more people will find their way to alternate browsers. They’ll be pleasantly surprised, and Microsoft may not get them back.
Update: On the other hand, Bit9 has named Firefox the most vulnerable Windows application. IE doesn’t even get a mention.
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Well I tried and couldn’t find any off hand. The best I found was that Ars Technica post talking about how, with awesome paravirtualization not capable with Windows, you could reach near-native speeds.
Which, I have to say, is quite a feat for virtualization. Nothing like your personal Windows VM though that can outperform Microsoft Windows on the same hardware. But, you know, science will hopefully catch up to your home rig pretty soon. What’s it like in the future, anyway? :D
apollyonbob on December 17, 2008 at 4:02 PM
Mozilla/Firefox kicks major ass!!!!
I never use IE anymore :D
TheMightyQuinn on December 17, 2008 at 4:02 PM
Wow. Whaddya know. Mozilla ain’t perfect either.
LimeyGeek on December 17, 2008 at 4:02 PM
Now you’re slighting me for using general terms? Oof.
And considering that you can’t appear to provide any actual links to what you claim, the hardware abstraction layer appears to continue to be running sufficiently enough to convince the various overclocking and benchmarking communities to stick not only with Windows, but to trod through to Vista and use it as the standard for determination of maximum frame rates and possibilities of issues like microstuttering or the decrease caused by enabling of Aniso, AA, and so on. In fact, other than for old gaming, for old DOS games, Amiga emulation, and titles more than six years old which Vista frustratingly doesn’t like, I have yet to find gamers doing much of anything in Linux, except those very few fooling around with Wine and satisfying themselves with the fact that the triple-SLI setup they spent a fortune on is gimped by the architecture of a free operating system. Kind of like building a monster multi-processor rig and powering it with a 400-watt bargain bin power supply.
MadisonConservative on December 17, 2008 at 4:03 PM
Oh wait, he can’t. We’re just gonna have to trust him on this.
MadisonConservative on December 17, 2008 at 4:04 PM
Also:
HAHAHAHAHAHAH XD
apollyonbob on December 17, 2008 at 4:04 PM
Listen, I only claimed that I had better performance running certain games. As I have said repeatedly, “performance” is a multi-dimensional thing, and cannot be neatly summed up with one number.
If I ran a virtualized MS SQL Server, frex, I wouldn’t be surprised to see an IO hit.
LimeyGeek on December 17, 2008 at 4:06 PM
IE’s security can be roughly compared to a screen door used as a backstop for shotgun target practice.
Anyone who knows about the myriad of alternative browsers and still uses IE is either lazy, foolish, or somehow thinks it’s ‘too hard’ to switch.
Dark-Star on December 17, 2008 at 4:06 PM
At which you will find:
“Paravirtualization Provides Near-Native Performance
Xen’s paravirtualization technology is widely acknowledged as the fastest and most secure virtualization software in the industry. Xen offers near-native performance for virtual servers with up to 10 times less overhead than proprietary offerings, and benchmarked overhead of well under 5% in most cases compared to 35% or higher overhead rates for other virtualization technologies.”
Chest_Rockwell on December 17, 2008 at 4:06 PM
You tell us.
How is bad javascript code that can, in very rare instances, ONLY cause a browser crash equal to a MAJOR security hole that allows Zero-Day exploit that has ALREADY allowed the creation of an over 2 million PC strong botnet?
Nobody ever claimed that Firefox is perfect. However, Firefox has LESS remotely exploitable security problems, and the problems it has are fixed more rapidly than the Microsoft ones.
Also, Firefox has the ability to use Extensions which INCREASE it’s security even beyond the default level, which is pretty high to begin with.
So… How’s that crow tasting now?
wearyman on December 17, 2008 at 4:07 PM
Been a happy Firefox user for many months now. It’s faster than IE and just all-around a better browser. Grab it up, folks!
Jockolantern on December 17, 2008 at 4:09 PM
Okay, so now you’re changing parameters. Shall we go back and look at the record at what you actually said? You never said “I can run games faster” you said that you could run “‘doze” virtualized than native. And we have repeatedly asked for proof on THAT statement.
And now that you realized you can’t FIND it, you’re trying to change your original statement.
Not very clever, but whatever keeps your head from exploding man. You do what you gotta do.
apollyonbob on December 17, 2008 at 4:10 PM
run it faster virtualized than native, typing too fast
apollyonbob on December 17, 2008 at 4:10 PM
Um, with games, yes it can. FPS. True, the average may need the context of the minimum and maximum, but that is all that is needed. Load times are fairly irrelevant in these days of 32MB cache and 10,000 RPM drives becoming more standard, as well as ram being cheaper than ramen noodles.
And the only “certain games” you’ve mentioned so far are fun but optimized non-intense graphic apps, which are designed around tournament playability as opposed to, say, Fallout 3, designed around open-ended worlds with plenty of independent AI, or Crysis, which was designed around making every person who just bought the top-of-the-line model from Falcon Northwest feel that they just wasted 22,000 dollars.
MadisonConservative on December 17, 2008 at 4:12 PM
Just received and installed my IE7 update. Didn’t take them long.
mhgoldwing on December 17, 2008 at 4:14 PM
Nope.
Actually, the context of this whole “performance” issue was in the context of UT framerates.
I would never claim that ‘doze, as a whole, runs faster virtualized than native. I have been talking about how various applications can benefit in certain respects vis-a-vis performance. If you took my “‘doze” comments out of context, that’s your misunderstanding.
LimeyGeek on December 17, 2008 at 4:14 PM
has it already been noted that IE has already been patched?
meanwhile, FF had 10 critical flaws patched…
but who cares, i use Opera/Chrome combo
RiteWingFascist on December 17, 2008 at 4:16 PM
So what? I make statements about X and you’re criticizing me for not talking about Y? WTF?
I can only talk about my own experiences. I don’t waste my time playing every game under the sun. I just enjoy a good fragfest once in a while.
LimeyGeek on December 17, 2008 at 4:17 PM
You haven’t mentioned games since the posts on page two.
Didn’t you wonder why NOBODY believed you?
apollyonbob on December 17, 2008 at 4:20 PM
…and in my experience I got a Cyrix 300 ripping DIVX in a fraction of the time that an i7 managed to do it!
Gee, relating of personal experience about things easily proven, and the evidence easily provided, isn’t really all it’s cracked up to be, is it?
MadisonConservative on December 17, 2008 at 4:20 PM
Is that what you’re refering to? One line out of context? FFS….
Everything else posted related to performance places that in the context of specific apps. Not the whole OS – that would be meaningless.
LimeyGeek on December 17, 2008 at 4:22 PM
It’s only meaningless in YOUR world.
Note for the future. When you’re talking about emulation people will care about how individual apps perform.
But when you’re talking about virtualization, people want to know how the OS performs.
You’ll note that’s the subject in the link you gave, and the link I gave you. Nobody’s going using Unreal Tournament benchmarks when talking about OS performance.
apollyonbob on December 17, 2008 at 4:24 PM
The most popular operating systems and browsers always will be the ones facing the most hackers. There’s no glory in bringing down software used by 0.5% of personal computers.
For me, dealing with the occasional hack is easier than running from browser to browser, like a 911-Truther jumping from theory to theory.
doufree on December 17, 2008 at 4:24 PM
And you’re also conveniently forgetting the discussions of what constitutes performance. Saying “this OS outperforms that OS” is meaningless. I tried to clue you guys in on that. I even mentioned gaming framerates as one dimension.
LimeyGeek on December 17, 2008 at 4:24 PM
MadisonConservative on December 17, 2008 at 4:27 PM
OK smartass. Tell me how your OS ‘performs’.
Give me a number.
You can’t. Performance is always benchmarked in many dimensions. Sometimes people write specific code to stress certain capabilities, sometimes they use games for FPS/network benchmarks.
To say “this OS performs better” is meaningless. You have to provide details. I have had certain experiences getting linux/virtualized apps performance benefits. I’m sure there are other war stories out there that are not so positive. Xen just happens to be arguably one of the best low-level virtualization solutions for hardware that supports it.
LimeyGeek on December 17, 2008 at 4:28 PM
Again, it is only meaningless to you. How long does it take to copy files? How long does it take to start applications? Will the average application, such as a web browser, be faster or slower? How is the overall user experience, does it feel faster or slower?
These are all real world questions when it comes to virtualization. Then you have server specific questions – SQL, web servers, etc. This is why some Microsoft servers have Hyper-V for virtualization support – to better support response times of server apps in virtualized environments.
And your previous comments never had anything as nuanced as:
Again – this is why nobody believed you, and kept demanding proof of your claims.
And while I can’t give you a number, I can tell you how my OS performs – especially vis-a-vis my OS before I upgraded my computer.
Hint: It’s faster.
apollyonbob on December 17, 2008 at 4:32 PM
Need to stop drinking the koolaid and step away from the hype.
Been browsing the web since Mosaic and 2400 baud USR modems were the cutting edge. Use IE now and have for about 7 years. Number of times my system has been hacked or hijacked? 0.
A little common dog and decent connection security is all that is needed to keep a system safe.
Jim708 on December 17, 2008 at 4:39 PM
btw, if your a COD4 player, I’m on this server quite a bit as Tech_Support.
Chest_Rockwell on December 17, 2008 at 4:42 PM
The problem with this entire conversation is that has dealt in the most advanced needs like virtualization and hard core gaming. Most home computers just need to surf the web, play some music, write a document, watch a DVD and use a spreadsheet–not the computer geek equivalent of rocket science. It is for the regular user that I would suggest Linux is the best operating system for their needs. Linux just does what you need better and for less money. You are no longer the unwilling victim of Microsoft’s newest scheme to extort some money from you.
By the way, you will have to spend five minutes figuring out how to play a DVD on Linux. Google libdvdcss and the name of your linux distribution and you’ll find out how. It’s really the toughest thing about Linux.
thuja on December 17, 2008 at 4:45 PM
oops. meant this server.
Chest_Rockwell on December 17, 2008 at 4:46 PM
As I said, perfect for grandma. That’s not a condescension.
MadisonConservative on December 17, 2008 at 4:48 PM
Ed, I like you, but whenever you blog about computer related things, I roll my eyes. The issue was identified, multiple work arounds given, and the flaw patched with minimal delay. It’s over.
SAZMD on December 17, 2008 at 4:49 PM
How many players are regularly on there? Does it count towards ranks?
MadisonConservative on December 17, 2008 at 4:56 PM
That’s so cool that we agree on something!
I hasten to add that part of the Linux/FOSS (free open source software) strategy is to be exciting to young programmers. So, I would say Linux is perfect for grandma and perfect for the college computer nerd.
thuja on December 17, 2008 at 4:58 PM
…if you can get the schools to offer classes. I took the only Linux related course in the University of Wisconsin at the time, Advanced Linux Server Administration. Where were the beginner classes? Damned if I know.
MadisonConservative on December 17, 2008 at 5:00 PM
I can’t believe this is still going on…ok here is the bottom line:
I don’t care about platform, language, OS, database…as long as I am being PAID to work in it, its all good….
right4life on December 17, 2008 at 5:02 PM
Chrome plz, thx!
Rainsford on December 17, 2008 at 5:02 PM
It’s a top 30 server, so it’s usually pretty full. Can hold up to 50. It counts towards ranks as well.
Chest_Rockwell on December 17, 2008 at 5:04 PM
If I can rip myself away from my rotation of Oblivion, Fallout 3, Far Cry 2, and SWAT 4, I will definitely drop in.
MadisonConservative on December 17, 2008 at 5:05 PM
Anyone that’s ever used FF would have to be suffering, at the very least, from mild Downs Syndrome to go back to IE.
It’s amazing that an open source software company can produce a product so vastly superior when compared to the offering from the biggest software company in the world.
Don’t even bother to click on the update link…these guys are a bunch of idiots. They believe that providing patches is a sign of vulnerability and they feel dread and fear in their hearts when they spot a PDF. Dolts.
Dorvillian on December 17, 2008 at 5:06 PM
OK, is the stupid Linux/Windows pissing match at an end? Never have so many characters been typed and so little been communicated.
Troj on December 17, 2008 at 5:31 PM
Well, there are religious wars. Wait, this is a religious war!
thuja on December 17, 2008 at 5:36 PM
I asked my coworkers: Which is the more fierce debate, God/No God, Left-wing/Right-wing, or Windows/Linux/Mac?
Unanimous agreement on the latter.
MadisonConservative on December 17, 2008 at 5:38 PM
I pretty much split time between SeaMonkey (the resurrected Mozilla App Suite, which was busted up to form Fx/Tbird) and Opera. I don’t have the memory leak issues with either that I have with the much heavier-feeling Fx #. But that’s probably just a problem with my computer more than anything else.
ddrintn on December 17, 2008 at 5:40 PM
If anyone still feels they have to use IE, then go to the Firefox site and download the add on “IE Tab”. If you have a site that doesn’t work properly with Firefox, this add on will allow you to use the IE rendering engine and still have more protection than IE. Just a thought. However, I have found that the very few that won’t work in Firefox will work in Opera ….
gstrickler on December 17, 2008 at 5:47 PM
I find this thread fascinating.
TheUnrepentantGeek on December 17, 2008 at 5:56 PM
None of these compare to the eternal battle of vi vs. emacs.
automatthew on December 17, 2008 at 5:57 PM
Hey. Should I be insulted? ;-)
thuja – The hardest thing with Linux, imo, is getting Broadcom wireless up and running (and it isn’t that difficult). I just install ndiswrapper and use the Windows driver.
raz0r on December 17, 2008 at 6:01 PM
And for all you folks on Windows, until the patch is vetted, you should sandbox IE if you have questionable surfing habits or just security conscious. Try sandboxie. It doesn’t prevent the exploit, but it does limit damage to just the sandbox.
raz0r on December 17, 2008 at 6:05 PM
Ain’t that the truth
LimeyGeek on December 17, 2008 at 6:13 PM
Actually, full disclosure, the biggest disappointment I have had with linux is its support for USB webcams. The uvc stuff is getting better, and once stabilized will be a pleasure to use, but for now I’m video-less
LimeyGeek on December 17, 2008 at 6:15 PM
Geez, Ed. Why single out IE? You act like the others have no security flaws.
For what its worth, Chrome is an awesome browser. The multi-process thing is very nice.
DaveS on December 17, 2008 at 6:15 PM
Microsoft IE has index.dat files which record every website you’ve ever visited and cannot be deleted (except by special software such as C-Cleaner) because they remain in memory. So why would a company that has spyware built into its Operating System be concerned with security?
MaiDee on December 17, 2008 at 6:37 PM
Firefox+Noscript addon = Fantastic!
scrubbiedude on December 17, 2008 at 6:44 PM
To conclude my ‘performance’ debate, a couple of reasons for my anecdotal evidence of performance gains revolve around techniques for SMP/memory management. I happen to have a machine with (ahem) quite a few cores and oodles of memory.
Two interesting discussions about these kinds of issues:
http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/optimizing-virtual-environments-on-intel-virtualization-technology-enabled-platforms
http://blog.richardmcdougall.com/?p=29
LimeyGeek on December 17, 2008 at 6:50 PM
A Q6600 can be had for 150 bucks, and 8 gigs of ram for under 50. Impress me some more.
MadisonConservative on December 17, 2008 at 6:54 PM
My machine cost a wee bit more than that.
LimeyGeek on December 17, 2008 at 6:56 PM
FYI, I just checked Microsoft “Windows Update” and they have just added an IE Security fix (KP960174) posted for Windows XP which I have. I have now downloaded the update.
bucko36 on December 17, 2008 at 7:02 PM
I use Chrome as my default browser, and Firefox when there’s something that is buggy in Chrome. I stopped using Firefox due to its poor memory management and constant hang-ups when it came to Flash video. Maybe Firefox 3.1 will turn it around, but I’ve ceased to be amazed with the Mozilla team.
On the Mac, Safari is hands down the best. I wish Safari ran as well on Windows as it does on OS X, because then I’d use it there too. Chrome uses the same engine, and is really responsive and fast, so that’s where I’m at right now as a web developer.
Seixon on December 17, 2008 at 7:05 PM
Dude, you spent a fortune on a piece of electronic equipment that goes down in value at one of the fastest rates for any product.
I’m in absolute awe.
MadisonConservative on December 17, 2008 at 7:06 PM
Eh, I prefer Firefox to Safari on the Mac.
Firefox to Chrome on PC, but both are still buggy.
IE’s patch is out, just run Windows Update.
Iblis on December 17, 2008 at 7:29 PM
Please update this post as Microsoft has released a patch.
Poptech on December 17, 2008 at 7:42 PM
Firefox is much better in every way except for one thing: I can’t play more than a few YouTube videos before it freezes up & won’t play any more. Help!
jgapinoy on December 17, 2008 at 8:03 PM
Which doesn’t necessarily mean that the vulnerability is fixed or that the situations is better. Still makes IE a crappy browser.
TheUnrepentantGeek on December 17, 2008 at 8:21 PM
My Safari tends to crash on sites with loads of flash and graphics.
For those, I switch over to Firefox.
The Ugly American on December 17, 2008 at 8:21 PM
That’s part of the memory leak problem I was referring to. I find Firefox to be unusable after running it for about half an hour, regardless of the website. Unless you’re addicted to certain Fx extensions, you might want to try a browser-only install of SeaMonkey, though the current stable release is still using Gecko 1.8.x. If you’re a Windows user, you could also try K-Meleon.
ddrintn on December 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM
IE doesn’t get a mention in the Bit9 report because it doesn’t meet the criteria for inclusion, specifically:
“2) Is well-known in the consumer space and
frequently downloaded by individuals.”
and
“6) The application cannot be automatically
and centrally updated via free Enterprise
tools such as Microsoft SMS & WSUS.”
Internet Explorer is part of Windows, so isn’t downloaded by the end user, and it can be centrally updated using Microsoft tools because it is part of Windows.
I’ve been using Netscape/Mozilla/Firefox for a dozen years with no issues. When I first create a new user account, I install Firefox with the AdBlock Plus and Flashblock plugins, which will eliminate many if not not most malware exploits.
oddball on December 17, 2008 at 9:02 PM
How many freakin security holes can one thing have? This is like #300 isnt it?
Hey, anyone else notice the market went way way down around the time Bill Gates stepped down?
johnnyU on December 17, 2008 at 9:06 PM
Attn: Ed-Oooo….and Skype is bad too. VERY BAD according to Bit9.
Skype
Skype 3.6.0.248 Vendor Patch Improper check of dangerous extensions allows
user-assisted remote attackers to bypass warning
dialogs. Cross-zone scripting vulnerability allows
remote attackers to inject script via IE web control.
Good bye Ustream interviews
Amendment X on December 17, 2008 at 10:19 PM
I have to confess that I have been an online bisexual (IE7 and Firefox), now updated Firefox to 3 and it is pretty good! Where do I set up default browser? Cannot let go of IE because of Windows Mobile.
If there is any way I can download stuff that IE takes but on Firefox I’ll really appreciate it!
Also my notebook disappears from time to time the DVD drive. Drives me nuts!!!!! I downloaded a whole Barbie movie from YouTube and I can’t burn it because it is missing! Opens, closes, seems to read and it’s not anywhere in system/device manager/computer/etc., etc. Will go to regedit and see if I can check whassup with the codes. Same issue with BIOS.
HP Pavilion; any techie please help. Thanks!
ProudPalinFan on December 17, 2008 at 10:21 PM
unfortunately, there are too many web apps that are married to IE and the Windows operating system (by design, of course) that switching to Firefox or any other browser is just too impractical.
timwashu on December 17, 2008 at 10:40 PM
Long live Firefox!!!
Aronne on December 17, 2008 at 10:50 PM
The best browser is Avant Browser. Everyone should at least give it a try.
It easily opens multiple tabs in the same browser and has tons of personalizing options. You can customize it down to the browser skin color. It’s perfect for blogging or researching because you can maintain multiple tabs at the same time as full pages (just click on the tab for whichever you want to view) or view them all consecutively in the same browser horizontally, vertically or tiled.
The best part about Avant for anyone who has a PC/Windows is that in the unlikely event your browser should freeze or your computer crash, all the pages you had open will automatically be saved and upon reopening Avant, you’ll be presented with a menu of all the pages you had open and the option to check or uncheck them, opening all or just the ones you want.
Can’t stand IE or Firefox. Oh, and timwashu said:
Avant feeds off the IE template so it is completely compatible. I swear by it.
Amy Proctor on December 17, 2008 at 10:51 PM
I actually meant: “view them all simultaneously in the same browser horizontally, vertically or tiled”, not consecutively.
Amy Proctor on December 17, 2008 at 10:53 PM
Why has this not been updated to state that Microsoft has patched the code?
Poptech on December 17, 2008 at 11:00 PM
“What do you want to patch today?”
OK, there should be an update to state that MS has provided the patch. But that isn’t the main gist of the thread. It’s that IE is Swiss cheese.
ddrintn on December 17, 2008 at 11:14 PM
I use Firefox. Jumped on board its train before Microsoft copy-catted tabbed browsing.
My only complaint is the sheer amount of memory it eats up. Open three windows and there’s 150 MB taken already. (I regularly go up to 10 or more, so I’m always throttling the RAM usage up to 600 MB.)
The ability to re-open all your tabs after a forced browser shutdown is nice, however.
Hawkins1701 on December 17, 2008 at 11:14 PM
That is total propaganda as Firefox patched critical vulnerabilities today and has for a LONG time.
Poptech on December 17, 2008 at 11:17 PM
Flame-war material: you can do the same with Opera and SeaMonkey (with the Multizilla extension), without the heavy resource usage…in my experience, anyway.
ddrintn on December 17, 2008 at 11:17 PM
OK. The fact is, ActiveX controls in themselves present a real problem. I’m not an IE- or Microsft-basher per se; I just think there are better alternatives.
ddrintn on December 17, 2008 at 11:22 PM
I love the myth of Firefox “Security”. LMAO, only 400 vulnerabilities and counting!
Poptech on December 17, 2008 at 11:22 PM
Fair ’nuff. I’m no fanboy here, just giving my layman’s description of my experience with Firefox.
If there’s an easy way to migrate bookmarks, I’ve nothing at all against giving another browser a shot.
Hawkins1701 on December 17, 2008 at 11:23 PM
Total Myth
The Lame Blame of ActiveX
Poptech on December 17, 2008 at 11:24 PM
lost my post re: missing dvd rom on hp notebook. Need help taking care of this since I can’t find it anywhere in the system.
ProudPalinFan on December 17, 2008 at 11:32 PM
Compare the Secunia advisories for IE7, Fx 3 and Opera. See the severity of each vulnerability, and number that are unpatched to date. Opera appears to be the most secure of the 3.
ddrintn on December 17, 2008 at 11:33 PM
Hey, if you love IE, have at it. There are other browsers that are more secure and have track records to prove it, sorry.
ddrintn on December 17, 2008 at 11:36 PM
Yes true Opera is more secure but it is not Firefox. Firefox still has unpatched vulnerabilities since 2004!
I use IE as it is perfectly safe (as much as any browser) and recommend it to all my clients. IE7 has added excellent security features such as anti-phishing protection.
Poptech on December 17, 2008 at 11:42 PM
From what I can tell, Firefox 3 has only one unpatched security vulnerability, and it is rated “Not critical”. I’m not saying Fx is perfect; just that in that regard it’s better than IE.
ddrintn on December 17, 2008 at 11:50 PM
And yes, I would say that IE7 and IE8 beta are tremendous improvements; they just may have come a little too late.
ddrintn on December 17, 2008 at 11:52 PM
Heck yeah, Ed. Mozilla has some nice qualities, but Opera has got to be the best-kept secret of the web-browsing world. I started using it in early 2001, it became my default choice 6 months later, and nothing that’s come along since then has made me change my mind.
In terms of security, accessibility, innovation, and consistency, Opera is a tremendous program and well worth giving a fair try.
Harpazo on December 17, 2008 at 11:57 PM
Heh, if Firefox works for you, there’s nothing wrong with that. ;) Importing bookmarks is easy in Opera; dicier in SeaMonkey (at least in my experience). Give them a try, see if they perform better in the resource-usage department for you.
ddrintn on December 18, 2008 at 12:02 AM
Hey thanx for the Opera tip, I downloaded it and it is wicked fast! Tried it with pop-culture full of stuff websites and it really feels finally like WiFi for me! Any updates on browsers like this for mobile will be appreciated.
ProudPalinFan on December 18, 2008 at 12:13 AM
Seriously, try Avant!
Amy Proctor on December 18, 2008 at 12:21 AM
ED….you the man….This thread was a wealth of information….I take back everything negative I ever thought…sorry…
I do find it curious though…. No one mentioned Jay Miner and the Amiga…ummm I would have thought Limey would have, what with his feva for Linux….;)
jerrytbg on December 18, 2008 at 12:22 AM
Here is a wealth of information:
Firefox Myths
Poptech on December 18, 2008 at 12:37 AM
That puppy just wouldn’t load….
jerrytbg on December 18, 2008 at 12:41 AM
Yep, lots of good infor in the comments.
I like to use a variety of browsers, IE, Firefox, Opera, Maxthon, for example depending on what I’m using them for. I especially like Maxthon for the blogs because it auto open each in a separate tab and has a built in spell checker with the right click. Firefox seems to be better with animation but can make little gifs go beserk and sometimes screw up the pages with frames.
Texas Gal on December 18, 2008 at 12:48 AM
Not that I give a rats ass who uses what browser, but what I always find intensely hypocritical is the inevitable MS bashing that goes on about in threads like these.
.
We have software engineers where I work earning 6-figures writing Windows apps that do nothing but crap all over MS at every opportunity. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you…
.
I’ve been writing software for over 20 years now, and while I haven’t agreed with every MS policy or technical direction, Gates and MS have established a world-wide ubiquity to PC usage and have provided more jobs and income to people across the globe than any smarmy, mealy-mouthed, unduly enamoured politician ever will.
swash_plate on December 18, 2008 at 1:57 AM
Okay, so I downloaded Foxfire to my tablet, but I don’t see anything comparable to IE’s “panning hand” option — which allows me to scroll up, down and across the screen by sweeping my finger on the face of the tablet screen.
Does Foxfire have this option? If not, what other browser has it?
flicker on December 18, 2008 at 2:14 AM
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