Video: Rush vs Powell

posted at 11:00 am on December 16, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

Rush Limbaugh counts himself flattered and amazed that so much attention comes his way from supposedly Republican reformers like Colin Powell, but also just a little confused. Rush wonders which person supports big-tent Republicanism best — the conservative talk-show host who supported the moderate presidential candidate, or the moderate who wants conservatives like Rush drummed out of the party? (via Matt Lewis)

For someone who supposedly wants to promote tolerance, Powell seems pretty intolerant of dissent. And let’s make one point very, very clear: when the Republicans actually nominated a moderate for their candidate, fellow “moderates” like Powell left the party anyway. If Powell want to support Republican big-tent efforts, they need to stop going running away when a big-tenter runs for office.

If the GOP wants to win governing majorities again, they will have to find ways to make their message relevant to the majority. That will never happen with purity purges, which are ideologically satisfying but a quick path to a generation out of power. Rush knew that, which is why he supported John McCain in the general election, and why he supports Republicans at election time. Powell apparently hasn’t learned that much about politics as yet, which is why he doesn’t support Republicans at election time but feels himself enough of an authority to speak on party unity.

Who should Republicans keep — Powell or Rush? We should find ways to keep both and settle on core principles that unite the disparate conservative cliques, just as Ronald Reagan did. If we have to choose, however, the choice is easy. I’d rather keep the Republican.


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Are you directing that to me?

darwin on December 16, 2008 at 7:22 PM

no. i was responding to Red State Of Mind.

eh on December 16, 2008 at 7:31 PM

Actually, John McCain’s answer is far closer to Abraham Lincoln’s position than that shown by the questioner in his wording.

Isn’t it difficult to compare an 1860′s politician with a current one? There are so many differences to consider that I’d contend that it is very difficult to compare “apples to apples” 150 years apart. I’ve studied 19th Century American History, and I can’t recall Lincoln having a strong opinion about illegal immigration. Did he? or is that not what you meant?

In fact, overpopulation (by the dim-witted non-English speaking peoples entering our country) was one of the prime talking points for Margaret Sanger as she created the organization called Planned Parenthood.

It’s amusing how some find themselves in bed with Sanger without even realizing it.
unclesmrgol on December 16, 2008 at 7:21 PM

We could all make lists that compare some terrible person’s views on a slew of topics with our own, and there would be some cross over.

Red State State of Mind on December 16, 2008 at 7:33 PM

no. i was responding to Red State Of Mind.

eh on December 16, 2008 at 7:31 PM

Does who asked the question make the question less important, or McCain’s answer any different?

Red State State of Mind on December 16, 2008 at 7:35 PM

I am inclined to think that open primaries were the main cause of this, but I have not researched it to see what actually happened. Do you agree, or see a different dynamic in what played out with McCain getting the nomination.

The media was instrumental in who got air time and headlines. McCain was pushed from the getgo.

Many here on HA make the basic statement that you did, that we had McCain “forced” on us. What do you think needs to happen so that we can be assured of a more conservative candidate the next time?

Not really sure, but at the very least we need some sort of “candidate clearing house” that’ll have info and even video clips on all potential candidates. I wouldn’t rely on the media for squat.

Also, I’m curious if you want a strong conservative litmus test for Congressional and Statewide races? That’s where I depart from many here, as I am in the camp that would rather see moderate Republicans (call them RINOs if you wish)who support the majority of the “feet of the stool” if they can win in liberal districts. Others want a strong conservative on every ticket in every district. Your thoughts?

That’s tough because people are elected to represent their constituents. A “RINO” may vote against the better interests of the party, but vote the interests of their consituents. I have to think about that one for a while.

Red State State of Mind on December 16, 2008 at 7:17 PM

darwin on December 16, 2008 at 7:37 PM

Not really sure, but at the very least we need some sort of “candidate clearing house” that’ll have info and even video clips on all potential candidates. I wouldn’t rely on the media for squat.
darwin on December 16, 2008 at 7:37 PM

Something I found recently; I can’t vouch for it’s being accurate or thorough, but it has been interesting reading.

http://www.ontheissues.org/default.htm

In some of these HA threads, I’ve tried to persuade people that the party can have both of these :

strong conservative values and field national candidates who support all of them, but also needs to be supportive of more moderate voices in districts that are much more liberal, if they want to win a governing majority in Congress. I see that combination as a winning stategy, and believe if the party conservatives and moderates can’t stick together, we will be in the minority for quite a long time.

Red State State of Mind on December 16, 2008 at 7:45 PM

robertnyc212 on December 16, 2008 at 4:36 PM

Please return to the children’s table. At least until you have developed some ability to reason. Besides, there are snakes here and you should be afraid.

Flying Still Culpeper Flag

Caststeel on December 16, 2008 at 4:42 PM

True Dat! I’m Evil

Dr Evil on December 16, 2008 at 7:45 PM

if white nationalist ideology is nothing to be ashamed of then why not say so? why be dishonest twice over?

eh on December 16, 2008 at 7:26 PM

Pardon me, but you seem to be doing a few things …

First, you ignored my original question. Secondly, you’re distorting the direction and premise of my question.

Your point is border enforcement and security is inherently “racist” because “white” people have banned together to fight the invasion of this country by thousands of people daily.

Answer my orignal question and don’t steer the discussion towards your favored implication that anyone who wants the borders secured is racist.

darwin on December 16, 2008 at 7:47 PM

I see that combination as a winning stategy, and believe if the party conservatives and moderates can’t stick together, we will be in the minority for quite a long time.

Red State State of Mind on December 16, 2008 at 7:45 PM

Democrats really have no moderates. They vote pretty much for their issues. Either we stick to our guns or just become a lighter version of the democrat socialist party, which is what will happen because “moderates” will always be the deciding votes.

darwin on December 16, 2008 at 7:53 PM

Keep Powell! To keep embracing Limbaugh will keep the GOP a party of nothing but nativists, creationists, homophobes, racists and religious zealots and will ensure it never reaches a majority again….

Noneya on December 16, 2008 at 7:16 PM

…lemme see…let’s examine the Democrats through the lens through which you seem to be looking….

Obama was elected solely on his race…say what you may, but his supporters didn’t stand behind him because of his detailed exposition of his views and political philosophy…so, benefitting from your race (a thing into which you yourself haven’t contributed)? Racist…by any definition.

Nativist? No…seems that the jury’s still out on Obama even being a native….

Homophobic? The Democrats are quite the opposite: they’re captives of the homosexual agenda. They even booed Boy Scouts at their own convention. What would that be? Heterophobia, perhaps?

Creationists and zealots? They’re zealots for The Messiah…and we’re not talking Bethlehem or Handel’s oratorio here. Creationist? Since when is that a bad thing?

…so, it would seem that once people were treated to a treatment of the Democrat Party and their candidates that the Republican Party has been heir to from the establishment press, perhaps they might return to their rightful place as the bitter and obstructionist minority….

…but, then, you seem to want to homogenize the Republicans into some odd, hybrid “moderate” creature, believing deeply in the latest poll, fighting bravely for the latest chic cause, regardless of the cost to the taxpayers….

…well, as a nativist, creationist (moderately), homo-realistist, racially-neutral egalitarian, religious voter (not much of a zealot, except for the Constitution as written), I see Mr. Limbaugh as more in tune with the overwhelming majority of the Republican Party…now, to get those with the keys to the beast, like Mr. Powell, to straighten out their acts or move along…that’s the trick….

Puritan1648 on December 16, 2008 at 7:54 PM

Democrats really have no moderates. They vote pretty much for their issues. Either we stick to our guns or just become a lighter version of the democrat socialist party, which is what will happen because “moderates” will always be the deciding votes.

darwin on December 16, 2008 at 7:53 PM

I see the Blue Dogs as the DEM equivalent of RINOs. Do you disagree?

Red State State of Mind on December 16, 2008 at 7:58 PM

eh on December 16, 2008 at 7:31 PM

This is the second time you have done this. Over the weekend you kept referring to “real conservatives” and later mentioned that you were trying to draw someone specific into the conversation. Today you have danced all around this Powell thing and it doesn’t have anything to do your main gripe. Which appears to be border enforcement and/or immigration. Isn’t that kind of gutless? I realize that it is a standard trick but it is childish. You will find as many different opinions on that subject at HotAir as any other subject but again you reference only posts that you feel back up your preconceived notion. And on a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with either subject that’s a pretty neat trick. Come on, man up.

Cindy Munford on December 16, 2008 at 7:59 PM

Both! When you’re outnumbered, don’t throw anybody out without 1st trying to get them straigthened out.

Max47 on December 16, 2008 at 8:00 PM

Does who asked the question make the question less important, or McCain’s answer any different?

Red State State of Mind on December 16, 2008 at 7:35 PM

of course it does, yes. the premise upon which mccain’s labeling of border-enforcement proponents as “racist” is supposed to be bad, is that he labels such people arbitrarily. citing an instance of mccain calling an orange an orange doesn’t advance the claim.

and the question is not important. it doesn’t pose a real dillema. it’s a posing of the sort of hysterical neo-malthusianism championed by the progressive left in the 70′s (from which, incidentally, the entire organize anti-immigration movement derives its origins). the entire population of the world could fit in jackson county texas.

the actual concerns of that line of bs are rooted in white identity rhetoric.

eh on December 16, 2008 at 8:01 PM

Red State State of Mind on December 16, 2008 at 7:45 PM

The party can have both but how has it escaped your attention that the Republican party fielded the most moderate of moderate candidates this year and the so called Rinos voted for the Democrat. Proudly and loudly. You guys just can help yourselves, you are determined to place this at the door of social conservatives because you don’t like them. So really your talk of unity seems a tad weak to me.

Cindy Munford on December 16, 2008 at 8:04 PM

We don’t need Powell. We already have McCain.

Keep Rush. He doesn’t bend over for the democrats.

HornetSting on December 16, 2008 at 8:14 PM

The party can have both but how has it escaped your attention that the Republican party fielded the most moderate of moderate candidates this year and the so called Rinos voted for the Democrat. Proudly and loudly. You guys just can help yourselves, you are determined to place this at the door of social conservatives because you don’t like them. So really your talk of unity seems a tad weak to me.

Cindy Munford on December 16, 2008 at 8:04 PM

Huh?

1: you guys? Are you including me,and do you know my views on social conservatism?
2: have you noticed in my postings I draw a distinction between national tickets and state/local tickets?
3: statistically, wasn’t it a drop in conservative turnout that contributed to most of the net vote loss in this election?

Red State State of Mind on December 16, 2008 at 8:14 PM

darwin on December 16, 2008 at 7:53 PM

darwin, you’ve avoided responding to my post from 5:06, so i don’t feel obligated to respond to your posts substantively.

when you did respond to something i wrote, it was to churlishly pretend that “white nationalist” is just a pair of adjectives when you well know that that it’s the proper name of an ideology with an organized constituency spanning from david duke to jared taylor, whio is published at vdare alongside “mainstream” conservatives like michelle malkin.

if you’d rather pretend like a child that i’m applying the label “racist” arbitrarily, have at it, but i won’t dignify it by responding to you.

the “problem” as it were is not as posed by white nationalist goons.

eh on December 16, 2008 at 8:16 PM

i don’t know which is worse: the possibility that you didn’t even click on the link to see what it was or the probabilty that david frum is a rino now too by virtue of being on npr.

eh on December 16, 2008 at 7:26 PM

I have no particular respect for the opinion of David Frum. Frankly I don’t give a crap one way or the other about who’s a “true conservative” and who’s a “RINO”. My comment was an easy snark on NPR.

But if you’d like to know what’s “worse” – neither. What’s worse is a typical astroturfing concern troll with a congenital capitalization disability.

Now maybe I’m wrong. Perhaps you’re really just one more Republican/Independent/Democrat legitimately interested in discussing Republican electoral viability (for some reason!). But it doesn’t look like it – and I call them like I see them.

So you can take your melodramatic “Woe betide our nation suspended upon a current of bigotry and anti-intellectualism!!” elsewhere ee cummings.

PS. Now this may never have dawned on you, but perhaps A) racism isn’t quite what you think it is (not people who disagree with you – shocker!) and B) perhaps people aren’t tired of intellectuals so much as FAUX intellectuals with lots of grant money but nothing terribly insightful to say. *cough*socialsciences*cough*

TheUnrepentantGeek on December 16, 2008 at 8:19 PM

Today you have danced all around this Powell thing and it doesn’t have anything to do your main gripe. Which appears to be border enforcement and/or immigration.

Cindy Munford on December 16, 2008 at 7:59 PM

my main gripe is the indirection by which powell’s critisism that the party is courting a narrow cultural exclusivity is being attacked as a call to become less “conservative”. i actually tried to draw it back to that point a couple of times. i’m just following the argument where it leads.

eh on December 16, 2008 at 8:21 PM

Red State State of Mind on December 16, 2008 at 8:14 PM

Who knows about the who did or didn’t show up. The news yesterday was that the turn out was a 40 year high. I have paid attention to your posts and it was not my intention to lump you in any particular group. That said, Republican national candidates usually support local and state candidates for the most part but Sen. McCain managed to take several of the more conservative local and state candidates to task for being to strident. The embrace must be both ways or at least the rebukes must be private.

Cindy Munford on December 16, 2008 at 8:23 PM

Keep Powell! To keep embracing Limbaugh will keep the GOP a party of nothing but nativists, creationists, homophobes, racists and religious zealots and will ensure it never reaches a majority again….

Noneya on December 16, 2008 at 7:16 PM

Comments of a person who has never once listed to Limbaugh. Pathetic liberal BS. You are what you scream at the rest of the world. I’ve read your posts. You’re a religious bigot. Narrow-minded and would take the same free speech rights from Conservatives that you demand for you own pathetic opinions. I wouldn’t cross the street to spit on Randi “hic” Rhodes, your extremist alcoholic whore, if her were on fire but hey, you listen to her if you want. It’s her right to be speak and your right to listen to her. BTW, I listened to her during the campaign. She told outright lies and even alluded to people harming Sarah Palin. So did Sandra “her mouth is half her head” Bernhardt. You liberals have the market cornered on hate speech. So get off your freaking high horse.

hawkdriver on December 16, 2008 at 8:25 PM

“listened” to…

hawkdriver on December 16, 2008 at 8:26 PM

eh on December 16, 2008 at 8:21 PM

Nope, you have an agenda. I am going with TheUnrepentantGeek on this one. Putting on airs to be interesting but failing miserably.

Cindy Munford on December 16, 2008 at 8:27 PM

Who knows about the who did or didn’t show up. The news yesterday was that the turn out was a 40 year high.

I had thought there was an article posted here on HA thatbroke down the demographics and affiliations of who voted, and I went back into Archives but did not see it…

I have paid attention to your posts and it was not my intention to lump you in any particular group. That said, Republican national candidates usually support local and state candidates for the most part but Sen. McCain managed to take several of the more conservative local and state candidates to task for being to strident.

I’m not looking to defend McCain’s actions. If i was a conservative Republican running for election, I would have been somewhat uncomfortable with a strong affiliation with McCain. Also, i would wory about which McCain might show up to my rally. I was very psyched for McCain right after Saddleback, and thought he had finally had an epiphany. Now, i think that wasn’t the case, was it?

The embrace must be both ways or at least the rebukes must be private.

Cindy Munford on December 16, 2008 at 8:23 PM

‘embrace’ meaning support of a candidate on your party ticket, even if you don’t agree with every one of their positions?
I agree about the private rebukes (11th Commandment)

Red State State of Mind on December 16, 2008 at 8:33 PM

Looks like Colonic likes being a token.

44Magnum on December 16, 2008 at 8:34 PM

TheUnrepentantGeek on December 16, 2008 at 8:19 PM

well, the suspicion that somone on a mesasage board is a troll is impossible to falsify, so i won’t bother.

Perhaps you’re really just one more Republican/Independent/Democrat legitimately interested in discussing Republican electoral viability (for some reason!).

that was what i was trying to discuss, and the reason was that that was the substance of powell’s comments – the one limbaugh is fighting back against in a supposedly heroic manner. you can find my original post on the third page at 5:06 and follow the conversation from there. i don’t figure you’ll find anything that runs up against the suspicion that i’m a concern troll, but i do think i posed something worth considering on it’s own merits.

the social sciences, incidently, used to be science before it became the academic host-cell for unreconstructed marxism. it could be science again and conservatives could regain something close to parity with the left in intellectual realms, but that’s not likely unless conservatives drop the populist crap by which reality outside of a town of ten-thousand is portrayed as antithetical to conservatism.

eh on December 16, 2008 at 8:36 PM

Cindy Munford on December 16, 2008 at 8:27 PM

that’s it. we’re breaking up.

eh on December 16, 2008 at 8:38 PM

when the Republicans actually nominated a moderate for their candidate, fellow “moderates” like Powell left the party anyway.

If McCain were running against Hillary, Powell would’ve been out campaigning for McCain.
Powell endorsed Obama because Powell is racist.

jgapinoy on December 16, 2008 at 8:43 PM

Colin Powell endorsed Obama even though McCain (the moderate) was the GOP candidate. Powell either voted for the black guy because he’s black, or Powell voted for the Democrat because he liked the message the Democrat was running on. Either way, Powell is no Republican.

I’ll take Rush Limbaugh over Powell hands down.

Keemo on December 16, 2008 at 8:45 PM

Agreed. What about messengers like MojoSauce ? (Did I remember this guy’s name correctly?)

Based on what I observe in large parts of the populations in Urban areas, many of these citizens would really identify well with the principles of Conservatism.

Property rights
Gun rights
Better education with more parental input/influence
Tax policy that encourages entrepenuership & economic development
Socialyl conservative values of faith & family that are cornerstones of a strong community

Red State State of Mind on December 16, 2008 at 7:27 PM

Exactly! Those ideas and fundamental principles of freedom resonate whether one is rural, urban, or suburban.

I don’t know who MojoSauce is since I have moved away from my urban beginnings. But I think that you are on my wave length here.

onlineanalyst on December 16, 2008 at 8:47 PM

Red State State of Mind on December 16, 2008 at 8:33 PM

I am not so arrogant that I think everyone in my party has to agree with every last thing that I believe. Trust me, there are ways of getting around making the differences the overriding issue to the public at large between these candidates. And one of them is to not chastise. As I have stated on HA I was Switzerland on all of candidates in the primaries. I respect Sen. McCain but over the years he has annoyed me to no end but I willingly supported and voted for him. I experienced the same situation in 1976. The only difference this time is I won’t tell myself that it doesn’t make any difference. Four years of Jimmy Carter made a huge difference.

Cindy Munford on December 16, 2008 at 8:47 PM

Definately not Powell, with political ally’s like him you don’t need political enemies. A great patriot. But he’s talking out his hat about why he voted for Obambi.

Hog Wild on December 16, 2008 at 8:47 PM

eh on December 16, 2008 at 8:38 PM

Well, okay. I will miss you.

Cindy Munford on December 16, 2008 at 8:48 PM

Cindy Munford on December 16, 2008 at 8:48 PM

this isn’t goodbye. inevitably, we’ll backslide over a bottle of tequila.

eh on December 16, 2008 at 8:55 PM

Definately not Powell, with political ally’s like him you don’t need political enemies. A great patriot. But he’s talking out his hat about why he voted for Obambi.

Hog Wild on December 16, 2008 at 8:47 PM

wouldn’t you be a little bitter over being passed over for some no-name after being the presumptive vp choice the whole primary season through?

eh on December 16, 2008 at 8:58 PM

eh on December 16, 2008 at 8:21 PM
Nope, you have an agenda. I am going with TheUnrepentantGeek on this one. Putting on airs to be interesting but failing miserably.

Cindy Munford on December 16, 2008 at 8:27 PM

Ditto to both of your observations. Indeed, “eh” is a concern troll with delusions of intellectualism. I called him out on his pretensions the other day.

onlineanalyst on December 16, 2008 at 9:01 PM

I have heard nothing about General Powell even being considered as Sen. McCain’s running mate. First, his wife has made it pretty clear that she doesn’t want him running for elective office. Second, what in the world would he bring to the ticket? More moderates? More military experience? Not logical.

Cindy Munford on December 16, 2008 at 9:03 PM

onlineanalyst on December 16, 2008 at 9:01 PM

Yeah you did! Fun isn’t it?

Cindy Munford on December 16, 2008 at 9:04 PM

eh?

eh, too easy

onlineanalyst on December 16, 2008 at 9:07 PM

As I have stated on HA I was Switzerland on all of candidates in the primaries.

I was a Fred guy but he didn’t seem to really work for it, or act like he really wanted it….

I respect Sen. McCain but over the years he has annoyed me to no end but I willingly supported and voted for him

same here. Since the election, with some of his comments (like how he responded re SP in his most recent interview) and non-comments (when staffers trashed SP) I have developed a case of Voters Remorse, but then again, I’ve only ‘protest voted’ one time and I’ve regretted it since.

Red State State of Mind on December 16, 2008 at 9:11 PM

Who should Republicans keep — Powell or Rush? We should find ways to keep both

Really? I’m not so sure I agree.

I’m of the mind that it’s time we rebuild the Republican party, by culling our ranks of RINOs like Powell. And, basically, McCain.

And I should disclose, I’m the exact sort of “moderate” that Powell supposedly thinks is being alienated. Why, I’m a conservative who actually is pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, not especially gung-ho anti-amnesty, etc.

Yet at the end of the day, whom do I think is more damaging to Republicans, the Powells or the Rushs? The answer: the judas goats among us. Enough of them. Cast them out, wash your hands of them, move on. Republicans need a clear, concise message, to be sure, but they also need representatives that support strong conservative values, not individuals that repeatedly stab the party in the back, do not support Republicans or their agenda, yet have the incredible hubris to criticize others in the party for being “divisive”.

Vyce on December 16, 2008 at 9:15 PM

like i said, troll-spotting is an unfalsifiable art. nothing i can do about it. not going to bother. if i’m a fake conservative by the lights of the “real” conservative mob, at least i’m in good company; gingrich, frum, horowitz, noonan, everyone at national review, etc. the bright side is that the population of the conservative doghouse is getting to be larger than the solopsistic witch-hunters still in the big house.

this is an equally futile temptation, but i’ll pose it anyway.

if the most liberalest liberal in the world told you that your fly was down, would you zip it up?

eh on December 16, 2008 at 9:18 PM

Keep Powell! To keep embracing Limbaugh will keep the GOP a party of nothing but nativists, creationists, homophobes, racists and religious zealots and will ensure it never reaches a majority again….

Noneya on December 16, 2008 at 7:16 PM

I’m inclined to see it the opposite way. I like Limbaugh, even if I don;t agree with everything he says. I realize part of his radio program is meant to entertain, and I believe I can sift through what he says to find ideas and values I can identify with, or questions I want to think about and learn more about.

Using your conclusion above, does that make me a….

nativist
creationist
homophobe
racist
or religious zealot ?

Red State State of Mind on December 16, 2008 at 7:22 PM

Heh…that’s just typical current Democrat euphoria at the thought that the country has suddenly lurched leftward and anything to the right of Colin Powell is doomed for extinction. It will be sweet when reality sets in.

ddrintn on December 16, 2008 at 9:57 PM

Rush! I can’t believe this is even a question.

pannw on December 16, 2008 at 10:07 PM

Rush totally blew Powell out of the water when he stated that Powell had the perfect candidate he preaches about, but chose instead to endorse Obama. Game.Set.Match, Mr. Limbaugh, 2 sets to love, 6-0, 6-0

SouthernGent on December 16, 2008 at 11:56 PM

And I should disclose, I’m the exact sort of “moderate” that Powell supposedly thinks is being alienated. Why, I’m a conservative who actually is pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, not especially gung-ho anti-amnesty, etc.

Yet at the end of the day, whom do I think is more damaging to Republicans, the Powells or the Rushs? The answer: the judas goats among us. Enough of them. Cast them out, wash your hands of them, move on. Republicans need a clear, concise message, to be sure, but they also need representatives that support strong conservative values, not individuals that repeatedly stab the party in the back, do not support Republicans or their agenda, yet have the incredible hubris to criticize others in the party for being “divisive”.

Vyce on December 16, 2008 at 9:15 PM

You are either an idiot or a pompous a$$.

No conservative has the values you self-proclaim. Interesting that you decry “judas goats” when that is EXACTLY what you are, by your own words.

Get lost. Republicans don’t need you and your parrot-like ability to mimic conservatism.

platypus on December 17, 2008 at 12:41 AM

Get lost. Republicans don’t need you and your parrot-like ability to mimic conservatism.
tolerance for people not straight or white!
platypus on December 17, 2008 at 12:41 AM

Noneya on December 17, 2008 at 1:17 AM

Who died and left Powell in charge? He flies under the radar for years, shows up and supports the Democrat because he shares a similar skin pigmentation. For such a smart man he has totally misread this situation.

I vote for the Powell doctrine to used to deal with Powell. All of the rank and file Republicans who think like Powell will be completely surrounded and overcome by the massive numbers of those who oppose his political bent.

Mormon Doc on December 17, 2008 at 4:39 AM

Let’s look at it like this. If we keep Rush it translates into potentially millions of votes. If we keep Powell we know for sure that it costs us at least one vote since Powell didn’t vote Republican in the last election and is unlikely to vote against BO in 4 years.

Mormon Doc on December 17, 2008 at 4:43 AM


Powell comes away from the exchange the loser both intellectually and professionally. His opinion is free of logic, for which Rush quite reasonably roasts him. And his attack on Rush in the first place is just stupid, which seems to be Powell’s intellectual level.

Rush’s rejoinder is devastating: that John McCain looks like the very embodiment of what Powell and the liberal RINOs claim to want in the GOP, and yet Powell and several other once-notable Republicans supported a socialist liberal Democrat instead.

Rush’s other suggestion, that race seems to be the missing ingredient in Powell’s argument, is also a major blow to Powell’s credibility, and it’s right on the mark. Powell chose the color of his skin, and not the content of his character.

Jaibones on December 16, 2008 at 11:08 AM

DITTO! REPRINTED IN BOLD, WITH CAPS’ SUPPORT!

S on December 17, 2008 at 5:13 AM

Every time I hear Powell, I think of Obama – who Powell endorsed — as a theatrical prop, just like that same vial Powell held up before the U.N. and claimed was a bit of WMD material, also a theatrical prop.

Powell’s track record at being focused on reality is poor. Or, he’s focused on altering reality, as in, lying for incentivized purposes.

S on December 17, 2008 at 5:16 AM

I’m confused as to why Powell every became a Republican to begin with. He doesn’t support the social cons. (obviously), doesn’t support people like McCain on foreign policy, and doesn’t strike me as a small gov’t, low tax guy. It would be nice if someone asked Powell which policy positions actually drew him to the Republican Party in the first place. I think that he’d probably have a hard time answering that.

Illinidiva on December 16, 2008 at 11:10 AM

“Republican” is another one of Powell’s theatrical props. It suited his purposes to gain something (prop to pursue power and ease, probably, certainly a nametag he could wear to gain greater access to certain people).

Whatever his motives, I think today we see who he really is and he’s — you’re right — not a Republican.

Remember Tokyo Rose? She said she was one with the troops, too.

S on December 17, 2008 at 5:19 AM

<blockquoteNoneya on December 17, 2008 at 1:17 AM>

Very interesting. Your main beef is the supposed horrible treatment of homosexuals by the Republicans in general and Gov. Palin in particular. You jump in, insult and whine then run off. At 10:00 p.m. there was a thread on a Newsweek article about scripture and gays. Perfect time for you to get involved and post something compelling but no, you stuck to your same MO. So insults are the sum total of your game. Got it.

Cindy Munford on December 17, 2008 at 6:09 AM

The amazing thing that I see over and over and over again here at HAir and other so called Conservative blogs is the same arguments / opinions posted from RINO’s that we need this “big tent” that the Liberals have in order to win Elections. I could NOT disagree more! What we need is VERY, VERY simple… A messenger, one that can put a sentence together, with a CLEAR, BOLD, STRAIGHT FORWARD way of explaining and teaching TRUE Conservatisiam. Rush can and does do that, on a daily bases… We need our leaders to step forward and talk in bold strokes about personal responsibilities, the Constitution, States Rights, smaller Government, tax cuts (including capital gains), Border security, Illegal immigration, (it’s costs in jobs and impact on local economies), English as the Official Language, the need for an increased and stronger Military, Missle Defense, Modernization of our Nuclear Deterent forces and a return to small town values of hard work and American Pride. If those ideas and others are too hard for the RINO’s to swallow, let them leave or kick them out… No room to water down any of these positions, just need to learn to ARTICULATE these with a true heart and conviction. Repeat them over and over and over, every day, every chance. When we get that communication going the majority will understand that these values are thier own, all the polls show that the vast majority want STRONG action against Illegal Immigration, polls show NO BAILOUTS is what the American people want, same with ENGLISH as the Official language and Gay Marriage… We have WINNING ISSUES and majorities on OUR SIDE but have no one to pull all the pieces together to show Americans that what they really want WE HAVE IT TO OFFER! Show and point out the stark differences that the Dems have shown towards our wonderful Military, name names, call Libs out for the traitors they have been and are… HAMMER THEM DAILY! People like Powell and those here at HAir that support him and his “senter” views are the reasons we LOSE, not people like me… REAL CONSERVATIVES! Explaine to America why it’s best to allow STATES to decide abortion, why Roe v Wade is bad law for the Feds… Clear the table of that as a divider, we are not looking to outlaw abortion, but find local solutions and compromises based on State rights and values. Show that we are the party of ideas and real plans, be specific, like the Contract for America… Do it again! When Conservatisiam is tried, it wins every time! So keep Rush and tell Powell to hit the road Jack…

Mark Garnett on December 17, 2008 at 7:42 AM

Mark Garnett on December 17, 2008 at 7:42 AM

Exactly right Mark!!!!

I might add this; HA appears to be a right-center site at best. Trolls, confused Moderates, the young searcher, and down right hate filled people can & do get in.

Keemo on December 17, 2008 at 8:09 AM

We DO NOT need more Colin Powells! He can join the big tent of the Democratic party of whack jobs, corrupt pols, greens etc. We need conservatives and nothing more…

sabbott on December 17, 2008 at 8:11 AM

For someone who supposedly wants to promote tolerance, Powell seems pretty intolerant of dissent.

Well, Powell’s a liberal so this shouldnt be any surprise.

abcurtis on December 17, 2008 at 8:26 AM

A “RINO” may vote against the better interests of the party, but vote the interests of their consituents.

I disagree with this. A RINO will vote his own political interests siding with whomever he has to side with to get his agenda across. Look at McCrazy.

abcurtis on December 17, 2008 at 8:33 AM

Keep Powell! To keep embracing Limbaugh will keep the GOP a party of nothing but nativists, creationists, homophobes, racists and religious zealots and will ensure it never reaches a majority again….

Noneya on December 16, 2008 at 7:16 PM

So, noneya, are you saying none of those elements exist in the democrat party? I would be willing to bet there are no creationists in the dem’s party because creationism implies a belief in a Supreme Being. I dont see that in the democrat party.
And I agree with your point – if we dont listen to Rush, then we’ll be just like the democrats – racists, homophobes, et ceterah, et ceterah, et ceterah….

abcurtis on December 17, 2008 at 8:39 AM

Ummm, Colin Powell endorsed Obama. He left the tent. He should limit his advice on how to help Democrats from now on. I hear some of them are pretty partisan, too.

hawksruleva on December 17, 2008 at 9:31 AM

hawksruleva on December 17, 2008 at 9:31 AM

:)

+100

Nice…

Mark Garnett on December 17, 2008 at 9:34 AM

You notice how Powell is pretty much invisible, except for when he’s talking about how great Obama is, or how much trouble the conservatives are in? I suppose it’s only natural that he says more of the stuff that gets him invited back to talk shows. He somehow proves his “Republican” bona fides by attacking his own party. Powell sides with liberals, and oppposes conservatives at every turn.

Maybe he should run for Senator of Arizona.

hawksruleva on December 17, 2008 at 9:39 AM

You are either an idiot or a pompous a$$.

No conservative has the values you self-proclaim. Interesting that you decry “judas goats” when that is EXACTLY what you are, by your own words.

Get lost. Republicans don’t need you and your parrot-like ability to mimic conservatism.

platypus on December 17, 2008 at 12:41 AM

A pompous ass I may be, but there are conservatives out there like me. The difference is, in the end, I support Republicans, even if I disagree with some positions that Republicans have on certain issues. I don’t side with the other party 99.99% of the time, and yet still have the unimaginable hubris to whine and complain that Republicans aren’t “big tent” enough.

And I’m also humble enough to admit when I’m wrong. I was happy that McCain won the nomination, not because I’m so much a supporter of the man, but rather because I embraced the fact that it was the party shifting to a more moderate position. What did that get us? A humiliating defeat, and a new president that could potentially be remarkably disastrous for this country. Who did I wind up falling in love with, figuratively? Sarah Palin, a Republican that represents many of the more “traditional” conservative values that I don’t necessarily share as deeply as many of you do.

The lesson learned here: I was wrong. Deeply wrong. Republicans need to move back towards the “traditional” conservatism that someone like Palin represents, and if that means that RINOs like Powell get marginalized, so be it. Either they’ll come around, like I’m doing, or they’ll be left out in the cold, but I don’t see that as much of a loss.

Vyce on December 17, 2008 at 9:54 AM

Why Can’t these “political shills” figure it out. The only reason McCain got the votes he did was because of Palin’s popularity. I voted for Sarah Palin and Cindy McCain’s husband.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/thanks-for-nothing-senator-mccain/

Dr Evil on December 17, 2008 at 10:09 AM

Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
Open your eyes
Look up to the skies and see-
Im just a poor boy,i need no sympathy-
Because Im easy come,easy go,
A little high,little low,
Anyway the wind blows,doesn’t really matter to me,
To me

Bohemian Rhapsody-Queen

Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, he really sidestepped that question “It should be reviewed” Does Colin Powell have a Core?

Dr Evil on December 17, 2008 at 10:49 AM

Dr Evil on December 17, 2008 at 10:49 AM

Is now Officialy ON MY CHRISTMAS LIST for goodb little Conservatives!

ManlyRash was the first…

Mark Garnett on December 17, 2008 at 11:56 AM

wouldn’t you be a little bitter over being passed over for some no-name after being the presumptive vp choice the whole primary season through?

eh on December 16, 2008 at 8:58 PM

So you think he voted for an untested, inexperienced, borderline Marxist out of pique? After extolling the virtues of his judgment? Seriously?

Look, Limbaugh’s a great entertainer, but I’ve got no illusions about him being the next great heir to conservative thought. Still, the difference between Rush and Powell is that Rush is actually a conservative. To hell with party labels – it’s ideas that are important.

Everything that comes out of Powell’s mouth would fit much better on the left side of the aisle than on the right. Why anyone would think conservatives could somehow create an electoral victory by becoming Democrats astounds me … because that’s essentially what you’re advocating. Dressing your arguments in terms of fighting “racism” or “nativism” or “anti-intellectualism” represents nothing so much as a dishonest attempt to de-legitimize your ideological opponents without actually addressing their arguments. What a terribly progressive tactic.

TheUnrepentantGeek on December 17, 2008 at 12:25 PM

Powell and McCain don’t do “moderate” Republicans any favors! Like Vyce above, I’m a political, fiscal conservative, and a social liberal — I can’t stand either one of them. They suffer from the same fatal flaw. Powell belongs to the party of Powell. McCain belongs to the party of McCain.

Powell screwed up the entire Turkish front in Iraq as Sect. of State, undercut Bush publicly for years, and secretly protected Richard Armitage throughout Plamegate at a terrible cost to his own sitting President. He can try to sell his endorsement of Obama as a protest against Sarah Palin, but I’m not buying. He never lifted a finger to support John McCain, even in the primaries; he just couldn’t afford to endorse Obama without some kind of political cover. He knows a Palin twofer when he sees one though. It’s the Republicans’ fault he had to jump ship and he’s just the guy to save ‘em from themselves. Make that a threefer, because it will be a long time before someone calls him an Uncle Tom again.

McCain’s putative position as a centrist derives solely from his willingness to join the opposition on a short, entirely idiosyncratic list of issues. Conservatives are fooling themselves if they believe he lost the election because he was a moderate. McCain lost because he was utterly incoherent on policy. When he claimed the mantle of reform and promised to name names, the response was electric. Then he headed straight back to Washington, singing Kumbayah where he never uttered name number one. He is clueless when it comes to the Constitution, and there is simply no way to tie his eccentric positions to any consistent, underlying political philosophy at all. So called “moderates” like me were holding their noses in the voting booth just like everybody else.

McCain makes a convenient whipping boy for the same folks who have always wanted to purge Republicans from the Conservative party. I’m just as fed up with that as I am when folks like Powell and anybody else talks purges. Rush is a lot more conservative than I am on social issues, but he has done more for the party than McCain and Powell combined. They are both one man parties. McCain has almost no identifiable constituency in the GOP, and it’s high time conservatives quit pretending otherwise.

There’s one thing Powell did get right which should not get lost in the shuffle. Even a cursory look at the map confirms that we lost this election in the cities. It’s going to get worse, and if we don’t pay attention, we’ll all end up like Republicans in California.

Powell’s prescription, however, is not just liberal pablum, it’s dead wrong. Listening to city dwellers and minorities will not shift votes. We need to be talking to them, and persuading them that a Republican approach to problem solving will have a positive impact on their lives. I’m a big Palin fan, but at the moment she is singing to the choir. The choir loves it, but until she demonstrates that she can actually sell those small town values in an urban culture, it’s way too early to put all our eggs in Palin’s basket.

JM Hanes on December 17, 2008 at 12:55 PM

I vote we keep Rush. Powell is a traitor.

PoliticallyIncorrectSandy on December 17, 2008 at 1:14 PM

It’s real simple. Powell is looking for a government job. So is Bill Clinton

NewsWonk on December 17, 2008 at 2:28 PM

It’s real simple. Powell is looking for a government job. So is Bill Clinton

NewsWonk on December 17, 2008 at 2:28 PM

.
Rip Cuda & Rip Rush? It’s a great way to audition to be the balancing “conservative” on talk shows. Isn’t this how David Gergen got his gig at CNN and the Harvard Kennedy School?

Mark30339 on December 17, 2008 at 2:53 PM

I say we keep Rush. Didn’t Powell already remove himself from the party when he backed Obama and slapped Bush and the Republicans in the face?

SgtRed on December 17, 2008 at 3:48 PM

Red State, Onlineanalyst. It’s MachoSauceProductions. His name is Alphonzo Rachel and he is awesome at crushing all the liberal myths about conservatives. I invite everyone to check out his YouTube videos. AP would love him because he is a big Huckabee guy but I understand his rationale so it’s worth a view.

rmel80 on December 17, 2008 at 7:48 PM

It is a false choice and an asinine question in the end. Rush will continue to be heard by millions of listeners and Powell will do whatever he does. The rest of us will have our opinions and act accordingly regardless of the status either of them hold within the “party”. It isn’t like we can vote one of them off the island. Having said that Powell is useless and always has been a RINO at best. Good riddance.

echosyst on December 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM

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