The nationalization of the auto industry is still in flux at the moment. The drive from the White House to fork over the $15 billion seems to have stalled out, with a statement from Pres. Bush saying it was not quite imminent. Whether they’ve actua….

“Without the UAW, General Motors would not be faced with extinction. Instead, it would almost certainly be a vastly larger, far more prosperous company, producing more and better motor vehicles than ever before, at far lower costs of production and prices than it does today, and providing employment to hundreds of thousands more workers than it does today. Few things are more obvious than that the role of the UAW in relation to General Motors has been that of a swarm of bloodsucking leeches, a swarm that will not stop until its prey exists no more. It is difficult to believe that people who have been neither lobotomized nor castrated would not rise up and demand that these leeches finally be pulled off!“ – George Reisman, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Economics

Something that doesn’t get mentioned is that the state of Michigan is close to bankruptcy. If any of the Big 3 goes down, Michigan becomes a completely failed state. Other businesses will flee the state and the tax base will shrink by a huge factor. They already have the highest unemployment rate in the nation.

What does the federal government do if a state fails?

I don’t know. Maybe you should ask Arnold.

California will be insolvent before Michigan. CA has 3.5 times the number of residents and 12 times the amount of debt Michigan has. Michigan’s state constitution also has mandated a balanced budget since 1963. California enacted Prop 58, which requires a balanced budget, only in 2004, so Michigan, despite it’s economic woes has a lot more experience being fiscally responsible than California.

As for unemployment. Rhode Island and Michigan are at 9.3% and California is right behind at 8.2%.

Mark Garnett on December 16, 2008 at 2:07 PM

That’s the kind of talk and action that needs to happen. Think beyond which group people want gone, but to see how the company can survive.

To blame any single part is to ignore the contributions of the other. Not just unions, not just management.

How about I see your intention and raise you:
A) Jackson Lewis
B) The Burke Group
C) Grigsby & Cohen
D) Anybody from the South in Congress
E) The countries that control the transplants

sethstorm on December 16, 2008 at 12:15 PM

I could say, “Ok they are all going to lead to our downfall,” but I refuse to let the UAW get away with only being 1 of 7 equal parts responsible.

I truly feel that the UAW will do more damage (albeit economic) to this country in the next 5-10 years than Al Qaeda.

That may seem flip, but between Labor, Congress (both parties) and the White House; they have done more long term damage to this country in the last eight years than any terrorist group has come close to inflicting. It is only going to get worse.

Chapter 11 7, Baby!

Caper29 on December 16, 2008 at 10:23 AM

Fixed that for ya.

Show no mercy

sethstorm on December 16, 2008 at 1:41 PM

Ok, common ground here, nice… Well stated… Agreed. I am NOT in favor in any form of any Company abusing workers. We have laws that protect most workers, most of the time, I do not say it is perfect, but Unions had a great and noble purpose in the past, times change, forcing companies to become Union is wrong. Again, never said, UAW made bad cars, I said they got fat and lazy. Job banks must go, merit pay must happen, dead weight and fat must go, the future of the company must become the priority for Unions to survive.

Mark Garnett on December 16, 2008 at 12:32 PM

My concern is that they want to throw out their good works just because it was made with union labor. There needs to be some way to sell them the idea that a union won’t work for them. The problem is that it’s been tried in an adversarial setting. Now would be a time to look at companies that have been able to resist unions without having a grudge with them.

I’m not talking about Toyota or such. I’m talking about places that say “Here are the policies. However, we also believe in doing what it takes to satisfy every customer we can – internal or external.”.

Make a non-adversarial, compelling case that giving up on the union is a way to secure their job.

The best of all worlds is union workers standing up for themselves and the secret ballot.

The problem is that such ballot alone will not prevent abuses of the law. It won’t prevent a betting pool or a complaint box from being used to divine opinion. It won’t prevent a flood of vetted anti-union workers from being hired to tilt the vote. It won’t prevent intimidation on the behalf of the company towards those they have identified. It has not prevented some from violating labor laws. It is only secret if you are in support of the company(and wish to remain anonymous) or manage to outsmart well-funded/researched labor relations firms.

You are a typical lazy Liberal Union worker who wants wants wants, but offers nothing in return but loyalty to the Union, not America.

For the record, I’ve not worked with any unions – but see their value as a check against abuses in any workplace.

Their job bank was a sop to the “lifetime employment” of the Japanese culture. If they want to get rid of that, fine. For all that laziness you’ve said, I’ve seen works of art come from those factories at affordable prices.

I continue to drive a CAW built Buick, 15 years strong – and only can complain about the door handles. No complaints about its 3800 engine, no complaints about a still working 2-piece stereo, no complaints about the transmission or suspension. Before that, I’ve driven an 1985 Astro with 220k miles on the clock before it was sold. I’m sure it’s still on the road.

sethstorm on December 16, 2008 at 11:55 AM

BTW, I own a 1999 GMC Yukon that has over 300k Miles and it’s wonderful… I only own American, never said they build horrible cars… Said Unions have KILLED the car industry, still stand by that statment, I work with Union guys. Like them as friends, hate the work ethic, very different in Texas then in NJ… fact, not opinion.

**** So your fine with allowing / having all workers reguardless of ability or motivation make the exact same wage, no result based pay, no promotions on merit only time sreved? Your ok with crappy workers keeping jobs that better productive workers should get? Your fine with Companies paying 80% of a person REGULAR check to them even though they have been laid off for months, going to a “job bank” and REFUSING to re-locate to go to work?

You are a typical lazy Liberal Union worker who wants wants wants, but offers nothing in return but loyalty to the Union, not America.

sethstorm on December 16, 2008 at 12:19 PM

The best of all worlds is union workers standing up for themselves and the secret ballot. I don’t think “right to work” will be as easy to get rid of as you think. Someone will stand up these people. It’s not like the past where these people could get away with intimidating workers and their families. Why did the workers go south only to bring what they left to their new locations? Do you think they miss the union mess?

Knucklehead on December 16, 2008 at 11:34 AM

LOL! I am the master of understatment, what can I tell you?

Vashta.Nerada on December 16, 2008 at 12:08 PM

There won’t be enough unionbusters in the world to stop that deal.

Two choices may happen – you bail them out to keep card check at bay, or you end up with a UAW filled South.

Either Detroit wins or their enemies lose.

grdred944 on December 16, 2008 at 11:55 AM

How about I see your intention and raise you:
A) Jackson Lewis
B) The Burke Group
C) Grigsby & Cohen
D) Anybody from the South in Congress
E) The countries that control the transplants

Let the Big 3 and the UNIONS die and we’ll take them all down South and show the Northern boobs how to WORK FOR A LIVING… and produce.

Mark Garnett on December 16, 2008 at 10:20 AM

Via card check, the unions are coming south, and will feast on Toyota and Honda once they finish the bones of GM. Elections have consequences, and this is one of them.

The biggest culprit in the Gallup poll for the demise of the bill wasn’t Republicans, but auto executives, followed closely by the unions.

Any idiot can blame the eevil auto executives. When the vast majority blame the unions, which was not even a choice in the WaPo poll, I’ll find reason to celebrate.

A) Al Qaeda
B) The UAW

If Americans understood this, we would not consider any baliout for Detroit.

Mark Garnett on December 16, 2008 at 11:03 AM

I defend them as they’re more than willing to make what the transplants wont at the prices transplants wont touch. I defend them as they keep companies honest. I defend them as their enemies would rather make it possible to send our work offshore even faster.

Another point is that unions serve to keep non-union companies honest. While NCR is non-union in our area, they were willing to do what the unions would have. They acted as a profitable, responsible member of the community. The only thing that broke them was AT&T.

Keep that in mind when the transplants turn on you.

Perhaps living next to Michigan in union-friendly, Honda-friendly Ohio helps. Only one of those two groups is willing to do affordable non I-4 performance. Hint: It isn’t Honda.

. I think the Union is being less than honest about their dealings.

Cindy Munford on December 16, 2008 at 10:12 AM

Do ya think?