ABC/WaPo poll: Majority of Americans oppose Big 3 bailout

posted at 8:59 am on December 16, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

If you look closely at the Washington Post, waaaaaaay back in Section D, page 10, you’ll find out that a majority of American adults oppose efforts by the Democrats and the White House to subsidize the Big Three automakers.  For some reason — call it an editorial glitch — the poll finds itself in the back of the newspaper, along with personal ads and the obituaries.  Will our elected officials on Capitol Hill uncover this data?

Most Americans continue to oppose a government-backed rescue plan for Detroit’s Big Three automakers as majorities blame the industry for its own problems and are unconvinced failure would hurt the economy, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

Overall, 55 percent of those polled oppose the latest plan that Chrysler, Ford and General Motors executives pitched to Congress last week, on par with public opposition to earlier, pricier efforts. But with 42 percent support, the new request for up to $14 billion in emergency loans has more backers than previous proposals to secure up to $34 billion in loan guarantees.

But as with the earlier bids, those who strongly oppose the measure greatly outnumber those who are strongly supportive.

Opposition to the automaker bailout is fueled by the widespread perception that the companies themselves are responsible for their predicament, not the faltering economy. In the new poll, three-quarters of Americans said Detroit’s woes are mainly the fault of its own management decisions, and a sizable majority of those who blame the front office object to government help.

Wow, who knew that 55% of Americans hate auto workers?  That was the excuse offered by pro-bailout advocates, who accused Senate Republicans of union-busting and of acting unpatriotically — as if our American citizenship depended on the Escalade.  In fact, not only do most Americans oppose shoveling billions of dollars into unprofitable companies, the level of opposition has remained unchanged for a month, according to the internals of the polls.

If those who oppose the bailout hate unions and workers, that’s news to … union workers.  According to the poll, 53% of union workers oppose the bailout.  Fifty-six percent of non-union workers oppose the bailout, too.  Democrats, which spent the end of last week screeching about how Republicans hate the nation and the economy, only support this by a bare majority within their party (52%).  Only 41% of independents support the bailout, about the same level as the general population.  I guess all non-Democrats hate their country, and almost half of Democrats too, for that matter.

Maybe the East and Midwest really hate America, too.  Oddly, in those regions most affected by the collapse of the car companies, only half of respondents support the bailout, with opposition equal.  It’s less popular in the South and West, where 59% of Americans oppose the bailout.

I guess everyone everywhere hates America.  Who knew that the only people with a patriotic bone in their body were those who spend money we don’t have by giving it to companies with a long track record of losing it just to retain the favor of labor management that don’t listen to their own rank-and-file?  Now, that’s news.  Too bad the Washington Post chose to bury it in the coupon section.

Update: Hey, Gallup finds half of Americans are unpatriotic, too!

According to the same survey, Americans are about evenly divided over the merits of the failed bailout package: 47% say they would rather have seen the legislation pass, while 46% preferred that it fail.

Most Democrats support the auto bailout, while most Republicans and half of independents oppose it.

The biggest culprit in the Gallup poll for the demise of the bill wasn’t Republicans, but auto executives, followed closely by the unions.  (via Political Machine)


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Comments

They won’t listen to us, that should be evident to everyone here by now. We are now totally disenfranchised.

True_King on December 16, 2008 at 9:01 AM

Wise up Unions…we know what you are up to, because of your actions, this may be your dying breath.

right2bright on December 16, 2008 at 9:01 AM

53% of union workers oppose the bailout.

I’m in that camp.
Why flush my tax dollars down the hole?
Let Detroit take some lessons from Honda.

jgapinoy on December 16, 2008 at 9:06 AM

Democrat Party & big Unions are one in the same. The American people just just gave big Union full control of our government. Mind boggling, polling data indicates the American people are wising up to the corruption that is Unions and Democrats, but yet Americans just gave them complete control over all of us.

Was John McCain that bad of a candidate?

Keemo on December 16, 2008 at 9:06 AM

Yeah well, who cares what we think…right?

latinchic on December 16, 2008 at 9:07 AM

Didn’t a majority of Americans oppose the Wall Street bailout? A lot of good that did.

The Senate GOP need to stand firm on this one. Let Obama and his cronies hand taxpayer money over to the unions and we’ll nail em with it in 2010.

Doughboy on December 16, 2008 at 9:08 AM

Hear that humming noise, those are the Congressional money presses rolling out C-notes by the billions to pay for all these bailouts.

Who knew printing money was so..so..so..easy.

Bishop on December 16, 2008 at 9:09 AM

And yet the Federal Government still seems determined to do it. How do you justify enabling shoddy business practices?

kingsjester on December 16, 2008 at 9:09 AM

I hope there are no more bailouts period. Bailouts only weaken the US government buy spending revenues needed to support the infrastructure. The US government should first pay back all the money it spent from the social security fund before that fund goes broke.

kanda on December 16, 2008 at 9:11 AM

Was John McCain that bad of a candidate?

Keemo on December 16, 2008 at 9:06 AM

Obama may have been unbeatable with the unfavorable GOP numbers and the corrupt drive-bys providing cover, but yes McCain might be the worst Presidential candidate I’ve seen in the 16 years I’ve been closely following elections.

Doughboy on December 16, 2008 at 9:11 AM

Was John McCain that bad of a candidate?
Keemo on December 16, 2008 at 9:06 AM

McCain wasn’t black enough.

Bishop on December 16, 2008 at 9:12 AM

I don’t understand why Pres. Bush is considering handing 15 billion to these guys…I am soooooooooo against this.

mindhacker on December 16, 2008 at 9:13 AM

How do you justify enabling shoddy business practices?
kingsjester on December 16, 2008 at 9:09 AM

By having the clowns run the circus.

Bishop on December 16, 2008 at 9:14 AM

Wise up Unions…we know what you are up to, because of your actions, this may be your dying breath.

right2bright on December 16, 2008 at 9:01 AM

Keemo beat me to the “root of evil” here, but I may add that the Democrats will find any possible way to keep the Unions afloat because of the long history of money and influence the two have used to maintain control despite the fact that the Big 3 have no plan to become competitive without a handout.

Rovin on December 16, 2008 at 9:16 AM

Politically active unions have been the death of many industries. I am not against unions, at their core they were intended to protect their workers and jobs.

What unions have become is an enforcer for the Democrat party, and corporation destroyers. The steel and ship building industries were basically destroyed by unions. They have been relegated to bending arms to deliver big money to their Democrat Party enablers.

Unions have been counter productive to industry. The sweetheart contracts they have bullied industries into accepting have caused those same industries to lose their competitiveness.

Rode Werk on December 16, 2008 at 9:17 AM

They’re bailing out the UAW, and at the same time destroying the car companies by mandating wind-up cars that nobody wants to buy.

petefrt on December 16, 2008 at 9:18 AM

I don’t understand why Pres. Bush is considering handing 15 billion to these guys…I am soooooooooo against this.

mindhacker on December 16, 2008 at 9:13 AM

Because he doesn’t like the prospect of the Big Three declaring bankruptcy, millions of jobs being lost, and the nation sinking deeper into recession before he leaves office.

I sympathize with the guy in that respect. It’s not his fault we’re in this mess, but he’ll get the blame for it regardless. But still, he needs to resist the temptation to waste 15 billion in taxpayer dollars in only delaying the inevitable.

Doughboy on December 16, 2008 at 9:19 AM

Wise up Unions…we know what you are up to, because of your actions, this may be your dying breath.

I would qualify that by saying “union big-wigs“. Rank-&-file members are only slightly to the Left of the majority of Americans. It’s the union officials that are hard-core socialists.

jgapinoy on December 16, 2008 at 9:19 AM

I really don’t understand people. They have the sense to see that the bailout is a bad idea, yet they voted a marxist into power! Or is it that opposing the bailout is intended to keep more money in their own back pocket, while voting for a marxist might add even more (from someone else)?

OldEnglish on December 16, 2008 at 9:20 AM

Yes, Ed, I too ‘Hate America’. Why?

– what used to be American Exceptionalism has been transformed into American ‘Gimmeism’
– what used to be praise for the Individual has been transformed into praise for the ‘Voting Bloc du jour’
– what used to be States Rights have been transformed into Federal largesse to keep the State Party happy
– what used to be honorable service for our Country has been transformed into ‘Baby Killers’
– what used to be noble public service has been transformed into an ‘Imperial Congress’ with all the trappings
– what used to be a defensive organization to improve working conditions and protect workers has been transformed into a corrupt, obese, fraud sucking the life out of workers and corporations both

I HATE that America and long for a resurgence in ethics, polity and a return to traditional American values.

SeniorD on December 16, 2008 at 9:21 AM

My main problem ($14 billion is not a lot of money at this point) was all the Democrats making the sky-is-falling, money-is-no-object argument on the House floor last week. They left themselves no leverage at all rhetorically.

Based on those arguments, Detroit could take that $14 billion and stuff it into the garters of strippers from Sparrows Point to Grosse Pointe and Dingell et al. would have to sound the same plaintive notes when they came back for more.

If money is no object, money is no object.

DrSteve on December 16, 2008 at 9:21 AM

Dear President Bush: While you’re busy ducking size 10 shoes from ungrateful Iraqis, it’s time to listen to the majority of the American people, and duck the question on the automaker bailout. Let them and the UAW come crying to the Democrats and Obama next month, or maybe go bankrupt and come back much stronger in a year or two.

Steve Z on December 16, 2008 at 9:22 AM

You’re right, Bishop.

After all, this IS the most ethical Congress and POTUS-Elect Evah! Just ask Blago and Rezko.

kingsjester on December 16, 2008 at 9:22 AM

We the People, for the People, by the People

has been changed to

We the Corporations, for the Corporations, by the Corporations

The People are slowly getting more upset that this is now the truth.

ny59giants on December 16, 2008 at 9:22 AM

Unions are for the worker like Prettyboy Floyd was for the banks….

sven10077 on December 16, 2008 at 9:23 AM

If a majority of the American people oppose this type of thing, they should have voted differently, for congressional races at least.

Vashta.Nerada on December 16, 2008 at 9:23 AM

Unions and Liberals are one in the same… Many Union members do not want this “gift” either… Many ubderstand that THEY ALONE have milked the tit too long and it’s dried-up… The days of milk and honey flowing are over, make HUGE consessions or face the end game… Some Americans understand that OUR MONEY is not for the Liberals to save the Unions. Bankruptcy is the solution, as is a REDUCTION of the cafe standards and stupid enviro regulations that are KILLING the Auto Industry… Get the tree huggers and far left wack jobs OUT of running manufacturing in America if you ever want manufacturing jobs to rebound… TAX CUTS and incentives for small business are the remedy…

Mark Garnett on December 16, 2008 at 9:23 AM

Yeah well, who cares what we think…right?

latinchic on December 16, 2008 at 9:07 AM

No one has listened to me in a very long time. I’m getting used to it. I guess that’s what the DEMS are counting on, right?

Oink on December 16, 2008 at 9:29 AM

Something that doesn’t get mentioned is that the state of Michigan is close to bankruptcy. If any of the Big 3 goes down, Michigan becomes a completely failed state. Other businesses will flee the state and the tax base will shrink by a huge factor. They already have the highest unemployment rate in the nation.

What does the federal government do if a state fails?

huckleberryfriend on December 16, 2008 at 9:32 AM

Hear that humming noise, those are the Congressional money presses rolling out C-notes by the billions to pay for all these bailouts.

Who knew printing money was so..so..so..easy.

Bishop on December 16, 2008 at 9:09 AM

Can I borrow $10 for a loaf of bread?

/sarc

Oink on December 16, 2008 at 9:32 AM

Who cares what people think. UAW must be bailed out at any cost.

petefrt on December 16, 2008 at 9:34 AM

Something that doesn’t get mentioned is that the state of Michigan is close to bankruptcy. If any of the Big 3 goes down, Michigan becomes a completely failed state. Other businesses will flee the state and the tax base will shrink by a huge factor. They already have the highest unemployment rate in the nation.

What does the federal government do if a state fails?

huckleberryfriend on December 16, 2008 at 9:32 AM

Oh, well the Big O will build a bridge and a road and all will be right with the state again.

Oink on December 16, 2008 at 9:34 AM

We the People, for the People, by the People

has been changed to

We the Corporations, for the Corporations, by the Corporations

The People are slowly getting more upset that this is now the truth.

ny59giants on December 16, 2008 at 9:22 AM

As far as the Big 3 go, they’ve been held hostage by the UAW forever. It’s a legal racket happening right before our eyes.

Oink on December 16, 2008 at 9:35 AM

Yes, Ed, I too ‘Hate America’. Why?

– what used to be American Exceptionalism has been transformed into American ‘Gimmeism’
– what used to be praise for the Individual has been transformed into praise for the ‘Voting Bloc du jour’
– what used to be States Rights have been transformed into Federal largesse to keep the State Party happy
– what used to be honorable service for our Country has been transformed into ‘Baby Killers’
– what used to be noble public service has been transformed into an ‘Imperial Congress’ with all the trappings
– what used to be a defensive organization to improve working conditions and protect workers has been transformed into a corrupt, obese, fraud sucking the life out of workers and corporations both

I HATE that America and long for a resurgence in ethics, polity and a return to traditional American values.

SeniorD on December 16, 2008 at 9:21 AM

***** We have a winner !

Mark Garnett on December 16, 2008 at 9:36 AM

Coming soon to the next bailout party. The $50 BILLION dollar Madoff scam bailout. Watch the media rally to bailout their bosses and other billionaire and millionaire investors. A lot of the “victims” are big time democrat donors in Palm Beach and New York liberal social circuit.

roninacreage on December 16, 2008 at 9:38 AM

If a majority of the American people oppose this type of thing, they should have voted differently, for congressional races at least.

Vashta.Nerada on December 16, 2008

A plurality of voters thought the R’s controlled Congress.

This was by media design.

artist on December 16, 2008 at 9:39 AM

If 53% of union workers oppose the bailout, then it’s clear that union workers are coerced into joining unions.

Even the membership doesn’t believe.

Yet Democrats want to force more people into unions, so that union leadership can extract dues, much of which are funneled directly to the Democrat Party.

Democrats – Corrupt, Incompetent and Criminal

NoDonkey on December 16, 2008 at 9:41 AM

– what used to be American Exceptionalism has been transformed into American ‘Gimmeism’
– what used to be praise for the Individual has been transformed into praise for the ‘Voting Bloc du jour’
– what used to be States Rights have been transformed into Federal largesse to keep the State Party happy
– what used to be honorable service for our Country has been transformed into ‘Baby Killers’
– what used to be noble public service has been transformed into an ‘Imperial Congress’ with all the trappings
– what used to be a defensive organization to improve working conditions and protect workers has been transformed into a corrupt, obese, fraud sucking the life out of workers and corporations both

I HATE that America and long for a resurgence in ethics, polity and a return to traditional American values.

SeniorD on December 16, 2008 at 9:21 AM

Yahtzie!

flyawaybird on December 16, 2008 at 9:41 AM

Can I borrow $10 for a loaf of bread?

/sarc

Oink on December 16, 2008 at 9:32 AM

Don’t laugh. It’s coming. Deflation first, followed by hyperinflation. You’ll be praying for $10 bread…

pullingmyhairout on December 16, 2008 at 9:43 AM

If a majority of the American people oppose this type of thing, they should have voted differently, for congressional races at least.

Vashta.Nerada on December 16, 2008

A plurality of voters thought the R’s controlled Congress.

This was by media design.

artist on December 16, 2008 at 9:39 AM

I imagine most thought the POTUS was responsible for 100% of EVERYTHING. After all, what does Congress do?

Oink on December 16, 2008 at 9:43 AM

Boycott April 15th.

We need to cut off the cash flow to Washington and refuse to file tax returns until they balance the budget by cutting spending at all levels of government and cut taxes across the board.

As long as we keep sending them our money, they will continue to give it away to the highest bribing lobbyist.

Cut them off NOW!!

roninacreage on December 16, 2008 at 9:44 AM

Wise up Unions…we know what you are up to, because of your actions, this may be your dying breath.

right2bright on December 16, 2008 at 9:01 AM

Which is why they are so desperate to get Check Card passed.

If they can’t talk people into joining and supporting unions, they will have to force them.

MarkTheGreat on December 16, 2008 at 9:44 AM

pullingmyhairout on December 16, 2008 at 9:43 AM

That reminds me. I think I’ll put a bread machine and yeast on my Christmas list.

Oink on December 16, 2008 at 9:45 AM

Was John McCain that bad of a candidate?

Keemo on December 16, 2008 at 9:06 AM

From the pre-election comments, a lot of conservative voters thought so.

MarkTheGreat on December 16, 2008 at 9:45 AM

That reminds me. I think I’ll put a bread machine and yeast on my Christmas list.

Oink on December 16, 2008 at 9:45 AM

Yeah, that and a Farmer’s Almanac so you can learn to grow your own food.

pullingmyhairout on December 16, 2008 at 9:46 AM

Which is why they are so desperate to get Check Card passed.

If they can’t talk people into joining and supporting unions, they will have to force them.

MarkTheGreat on December 16, 2008 at 9:44 AM

I’d like to see someone show up at my house and try to strong-arm my husband into ANYTHING! Talk about “pass the popcorn!”

Oink on December 16, 2008 at 9:46 AM

yes McCain might be the worst Presidential candidate I’ve seen in the 16 years I’ve been closely following elections.

Doughboy on December 16, 2008 at 9:11 AM

Bob Dole was pretty pathetic.

MarkTheGreat on December 16, 2008 at 9:46 AM

Yeah, that and a Farmer’s Almanac so you can learn to grow your own food.

pullingmyhairout on December 16, 2008 at 9:46 AM

Way ahead of ya. We’re farmers.

Oink on December 16, 2008 at 9:47 AM

If a majority of the American people oppose this type of thing, they should have voted differently, for congressional races at least.

Vashta.Nerada on December 16, 2008

A plurality of voters thought the R’s controlled Congress.

This was by media design.

artist on December 16, 2008 at 9:39 AM

Why?

The Messiah will fix everything on day one. Just you wait and see.
We will no longer have to buy our gas or pay our mortgages. We will all have green jobs that pay well with big benefits.

roninacreage on December 16, 2008 at 9:48 AM

47% say they would rather have seen the legislation pass

I’m proud to be the part of that 47%.

Produce affordable muscle first, and force unionbusters to stand down for ~30 years. Then you can have a leg to stand on with opposing the bailout.

That was the excuse offered by pro-bailout advocates, who accused Senate Republicans of union-busting and of acting unpatriotically — as if our American citizenship depended on the Escalade.

Well, you can’t argue against facts with proof – especially with the South. They’ve been quite unpatriotic, well before the UAW.

sethstorm on December 16, 2008 at 9:49 AM

In a capitalist, free-market economy (even such as ours with considerable gov’t interference) failures are as important as successes.

whitetop on December 16, 2008 at 9:50 AM

What does the federal government do if a state fails?

huckleberryfriend on December 16, 2008 at 9:32 AM

If it’s smart, nothing.

MarkTheGreat on December 16, 2008 at 9:51 AM

Produce affordable muscle first, and force unionbusters to stand down for ~30 years. Then you can have a leg to stand on with opposing the bailout.

sethstorm on December 16, 2008 at 9:49 AM

So anyone who disagrees with the sacred Union, is by definition a union buster?

MarkTheGreat on December 16, 2008 at 9:54 AM

A government of the greedy, by the greedy and for the greedy.

fogw on December 16, 2008 at 9:55 AM

sethstorm on December 16, 2008 at 9:49 AM

What’s your problem with the South, kid? Is it because we had sense enough to be suspicious of Unions?

kingsjester on December 16, 2008 at 9:56 AM

Which is why they are so desperate to get Check Card passed.

If they can’t talk people into joining and supporting unions, they will have to force them.

MarkTheGreat on December 16, 2008 at 9:44 AM

Exactly, nothing more dangerous then a wounded animal fighting for survival.

right2bright on December 16, 2008 at 10:10 AM

Sen. Corker was on Bill Bennett’s show this morning. Most of the folks in the negoiations made huge concessions ($.30 on a dollar for bond holders) and only the union didn’t want to play. They even took the retirees off the table, according to the senator. I think the Union is being less than honest about their dealings.

Cindy Munford on December 16, 2008 at 10:12 AM

Two points: One, the Big3 aren’t in trouble directly because of a terrible product. They’re in trouble because of stupid financial decisions, namely placing so much of their financial future is the lease-resell market of the automotive industry. They shot their load hoping that a niche market (yes, urban assault vehicles like the Chevy Equinox and the Lincoln Navigator are niche vehicles) would become a market mainstay, and the leasing would pay itself off. Not to be, the majority of Americans like sedans, and the Big3 haven’t made a decent sedan since the Chevy Citation. That’s why you see so many Camrys, Accords, and Jettas doing the commute. Japan and Germany have been making and perfecting the mainstay vehicle while the Big3 were trying to bring a niche vehicle into the mainstream, and they thought leasing them out would do the trick!
That leads to my second point: The majority of Americans oppose the bailout because they are in no way impacted by autoworkers losing their jobs. And since those people also drive foreign made sedans that are comfortable, sporty, safe, and fuel-efficient, why should they worry about those automakers who don’t make cars they want?

Spc Steve on December 16, 2008 at 10:16 AM

I love talking to Union members and asking about the FACTS that Toyota, made right here in the NON-UNION South made the same number of cars, but made MILLIONS in the black while the SAME NUMBER of cars made in the bitter Rust-Belt LOST BILLIONS… ROFL, watching the look of horros on thier faces as they understand that Americans are waking up and WE KNOW the truths that the UNIONS are casuing the issues with big 3, while better made cars MADE IN THE SOUTH NON-UNION are kicking thier Union asses… Let the Big 3 and the UNIONS die and we’ll take them all down South and show the Northern boobs how to WORK FOR A LIVING… and produce.

Mark Garnett on December 16, 2008 at 10:20 AM

luckily i can grow enough tomatoes to can. and i can make pickles & bread. my husband fishes & hunts. where can i hook up with someone who makes cheese & butter? or i can get my own milk cow. then i won’t have to cut the grass all summer.

kelley in virginia on December 16, 2008 at 10:23 AM

“acting unpatriotically”

WTF? GM doesn’t buy American so why do I? For the last 10 years GM has been switching to foreign suppliers. The Toyota Camry and the Honda Accord have more North American content in them then most GM vehicles.

Chapter 11, Baby!

Caper29 on December 16, 2008 at 10:23 AM

oh, btw, someone mentioned here the other day that the kennedys had chicago ties with owning part of the merchandise mart. remember how old joe kennedy bought the chi-town mob so his son jack could win the presidential election? that’s the big chicago connection.

kelley in virginia on December 16, 2008 at 10:24 AM

Bob Dole was pretty pathetic.

MarkTheGreat on December 16, 2008 at 9:46 AM

Yes he was. So was Bush 41 in ’92. But McCain was worse than either of them.

Doughboy on December 16, 2008 at 10:27 AM

right2bright on December 16, 2008 at 10:10 AM

That’s why the remaining believers of Reaganist ideology want to get rid of them. They are a wounded animal that wishes to make a final stab at the UAW. They must be denied this last stab.

Mark Garnett on December 16, 2008 at 10:20 AM

I also like to point out that the Big Three never have given up on an affordable performance. I doubt Toyota and such don’t know what that means.

Remember that GM is the one that provides the initial body for the Presidential vehicles, not Toyota. That’s right, UAW builds for everyone from the top to the bottom without forcing them to an I-4 engine.

MarkTheGreat on December 16, 2008 at 9:54 AM

If you make it your job to bust them, you are.

sethstorm on December 16, 2008 at 10:36 AM

Bush is for it – the polls (fluff created for news agencies) show data against it. Let’s see how the polls play for Hussain.

nolapol on December 16, 2008 at 10:44 AM

I guess everyone everywhere hates America.

Yeah. Mission accomplished for the libs and the MSM.

mrsmwp on December 16, 2008 at 10:56 AM

sethstorm on December 16, 2008 at 10:36 AM

I can not believe that you are defending Unions in this day and time. Unions once served a noble purpose, now they are the strong arm muscle for the Libs and America bashers. Union workers have ZERO incentive to work hard, ZERO incentive to learn new skills, ZERO incentive to advance. There is NO merit pay in most Union deals, only one-ness, uniformity to LOW standards… The best get the same as the worst, you can’t fire horrible workers without an act of God, I know because I work in Managment at a Sheet Metal Union plant. We can not compete with non-Union shops, we are lucky to still be open… I’m from Texas, owned my own Tool & Die company for over 15 years, non-Union and was VERY sucessful… I would and could ALWAYS beat Northeastern Union shops… And we wonder why all the manufacturing jobs are gone… ROFL! So simple to fix too, KILL THE UNIONS, GET WORKERS WORKING AGAIN, MERIT PAY, PROMOTIONS FOR PRODUCTIVITY… Competition is a winner. Unions are losers in todays World. 25% unemployment is on it
s way again, hello Pres Carter part 2!

Mark Garnett on December 16, 2008 at 11:03 AM

Where the hell do we the American People go to get our government back? How on earth can anyone call this the land of the free anymore? We are not free. We are sitting ducks. We actually got the majority of Senators to represent our will and say “no” to the automaker bail out. Bush and Paulson turn around and say they don’t give a hoot, they are going to do it anyway AND they may illegally use TARP funds to do so.

Sorry, just joined the group that wants to impeach Bush.

katablog.com on December 16, 2008 at 11:15 AM

One of the many consequences of letting them fail would be “why”……………. and that is something the unions just don’t want the American people to know.

Seven Percent Solution on December 16, 2008 at 11:18 AM

. I think the Union is being less than honest about their dealings.

Cindy Munford on December 16, 2008 at 10:12 AM

Do ya think?

Knucklehead on December 16, 2008 at 11:34 AM

Mark Garnett on December 16, 2008 at 11:03 AM

I defend them as they’re more than willing to make what the transplants wont at the prices transplants wont touch. I defend them as they keep companies honest. I defend them as their enemies would rather make it possible to send our work offshore even faster.

Another point is that unions serve to keep non-union companies honest. While NCR is non-union in our area, they were willing to do what the unions would have. They acted as a profitable, responsible member of the community. The only thing that broke them was AT&T.

Keep that in mind when the transplants turn on you.

Perhaps living next to Michigan in union-friendly, Honda-friendly Ohio helps. Only one of those two groups is willing to do affordable non I-4 performance. Hint: It isn’t Honda.

sethstorm on December 16, 2008 at 11:55 AM

Which organization will cause greater damage to the United States in the next 5-10 years?

A) Al Qaeda
B) The UAW

If Americans understood this, we would not consider any baliout for Detroit.

grdred944 on December 16, 2008 at 11:55 AM

The biggest culprit in the Gallup poll for the demise of the bill wasn’t Republicans, but auto executives, followed closely by the unions.

Any idiot can blame the eevil auto executives. When the vast majority blame the unions, which was not even a choice in the WaPo poll, I’ll find reason to celebrate.

Buy Danish on December 16, 2008 at 12:05 PM

Let the Big 3 and the UNIONS die and we’ll take them all down South and show the Northern boobs how to WORK FOR A LIVING… and produce.

Mark Garnett on December 16, 2008 at 10:20 AM

Via card check, the unions are coming south, and will feast on Toyota and Honda once they finish the bones of GM. Elections have consequences, and this is one of them.

Vashta.Nerada on December 16, 2008 at 12:08 PM

grdred944 on December 16, 2008 at 11:55 AM

How about I see your intention and raise you:
A) Jackson Lewis
B) The Burke Group
C) Grigsby & Cohen
D) Anybody from the South in Congress
E) The countries that control the transplants

sethstorm on December 16, 2008 at 12:15 PM

Vashta.Nerada on December 16, 2008 at 12:08 PM

There won’t be enough unionbusters in the world to stop that deal.

Two choices may happen – you bail them out to keep card check at bay, or you end up with a UAW filled South.

Either Detroit wins or their enemies lose.

sethstorm on December 16, 2008 at 12:19 PM

Knucklehead on December 16, 2008 at 11:34 AM

LOL! I am the master of understatment, what can I tell you?

Cindy Munford on December 16, 2008 at 12:20 PM

sethstorm on December 16, 2008 at 12:19 PM

The best of all worlds is union workers standing up for themselves and the secret ballot. I don’t think “right to work” will be as easy to get rid of as you think. Someone will stand up these people. It’s not like the past where these people could get away with intimidating workers and their families. Why did the workers go south only to bring what they left to their new locations? Do you think they miss the union mess?

Cindy Munford on December 16, 2008 at 12:26 PM

sethstorm on December 16, 2008 at 11:55 AM

**** So your fine with allowing / having all workers reguardless of ability or motivation make the exact same wage, no result based pay, no promotions on merit only time sreved? Your ok with crappy workers keeping jobs that better productive workers should get? Your fine with Companies paying 80% of a person REGULAR check to them even though they have been laid off for months, going to a “job bank” and REFUSING to re-locate to go to work?

You are a typical lazy Liberal Union worker who wants wants wants, but offers nothing in return but loyalty to the Union, not America.

Mark Garnett on December 16, 2008 at 12:29 PM

sethstorm on December 16, 2008 at 11:55 AM

BTW, I own a 1999 GMC Yukon that has over 300k Miles and it’s wonderful… I only own American, never said they build horrible cars… Said Unions have KILLED the car industry, still stand by that statment, I work with Union guys. Like them as friends, hate the work ethic, very different in Texas then in NJ… fact, not opinion.

Mark Garnett on December 16, 2008 at 12:32 PM

The best of all worlds is union workers standing up for themselves and the secret ballot.

The problem is that such ballot alone will not prevent abuses of the law. It won’t prevent a betting pool or a complaint box from being used to divine opinion. It won’t prevent a flood of vetted anti-union workers from being hired to tilt the vote. It won’t prevent intimidation on the behalf of the company towards those they have identified. It has not prevented some from violating labor laws. It is only secret if you are in support of the company(and wish to remain anonymous) or manage to outsmart well-funded/researched labor relations firms.

You are a typical lazy Liberal Union worker who wants wants wants, but offers nothing in return but loyalty to the Union, not America.

For the record, I’ve not worked with any unions – but see their value as a check against abuses in any workplace.

Their job bank was a sop to the “lifetime employment” of the Japanese culture. If they want to get rid of that, fine. For all that laziness you’ve said, I’ve seen works of art come from those factories at affordable prices.

I continue to drive a CAW built Buick, 15 years strong – and only can complain about the door handles. No complaints about its 3800 engine, no complaints about a still working 2-piece stereo, no complaints about the transmission or suspension. Before that, I’ve driven an 1985 Astro with 220k miles on the clock before it was sold. I’m sure it’s still on the road.

sethstorm on December 16, 2008 at 1:11 PM

Mark Garnett on December 16, 2008 at 12:32 PM

My concern is that they want to throw out their good works just because it was made with union labor. There needs to be some way to sell them the idea that a union won’t work for them. The problem is that it’s been tried in an adversarial setting. Now would be a time to look at companies that have been able to resist unions without having a grudge with them.

I’m not talking about Toyota or such. I’m talking about places that say “Here are the policies. However, we also believe in doing what it takes to satisfy every customer we can – internal or external.”.

Make a non-adversarial, compelling case that giving up on the union is a way to secure their job.

sethstorm on December 16, 2008 at 1:41 PM

sethstorm on December 16, 2008 at 1:41 PM

Ok, common ground here, nice… Well stated… Agreed. I am NOT in favor in any form of any Company abusing workers. We have laws that protect most workers, most of the time, I do not say it is perfect, but Unions had a great and noble purpose in the past, times change, forcing companies to become Union is wrong. Again, never said, UAW made bad cars, I said they got fat and lazy. Job banks must go, merit pay must happen, dead weight and fat must go, the future of the company must become the priority for Unions to survive.

Mark Garnett on December 16, 2008 at 2:07 PM

Chapter 11 7, Baby!

Caper29 on December 16, 2008 at 10:23 AM

Fixed that for ya.

Show no mercy

nolapol on December 16, 2008 at 2:16 PM

How about I see your intention and raise you:
A) Jackson Lewis
B) The Burke Group
C) Grigsby & Cohen
D) Anybody from the South in Congress
E) The countries that control the transplants

sethstorm on December 16, 2008 at 12:15 PM

I could say, “Ok they are all going to lead to our downfall,” but I refuse to let the UAW get away with only being 1 of 7 equal parts responsible.

I truly feel that the UAW will do more damage (albeit economic) to this country in the next 5-10 years than Al Qaeda.

That may seem flip, but between Labor, Congress (both parties) and the White House; they have done more long term damage to this country in the last eight years than any terrorist group has come close to inflicting. It is only going to get worse.

grdred944 on December 16, 2008 at 2:17 PM

All Unions need to Go Down!!! No Bail Out. Chapter 11. I feel like a recording. Is how I feel about this.

sheebe on December 16, 2008 at 2:45 PM

Mark Garnett on December 16, 2008 at 2:07 PM

That’s the kind of talk and action that needs to happen. Think beyond which group people want gone, but to see how the company can survive.

To blame any single part is to ignore the contributions of the other. Not just unions, not just management.

sethstorm on December 16, 2008 at 4:09 PM

If the UAW gets the 15 billon .I will not by any car made by the big 3.Its time for The UAW to die.The unions in the USA have destroyed the country. The Unions can take there
sorry A$$ back to hell. I spit on the scum suckers that are going to lose there jobs.The union members can take there sorry buts back to hell with the dam UAW.The Unions and there members have been laughing all the way to the bank.
And They laugh at all of us .The ones that buy the junk cars they make.

Denniscat on December 16, 2008 at 8:01 PM

Something that doesn’t get mentioned is that the state of Michigan is close to bankruptcy. If any of the Big 3 goes down, Michigan becomes a completely failed state. Other businesses will flee the state and the tax base will shrink by a huge factor. They already have the highest unemployment rate in the nation.

What does the federal government do if a state fails?

I don’t know. Maybe you should ask Arnold.

California will be insolvent before Michigan. CA has 3.5 times the number of residents and 12 times the amount of debt Michigan has. Michigan’s state constitution also has mandated a balanced budget since 1963. California enacted Prop 58, which requires a balanced budget, only in 2004, so Michigan, despite it’s economic woes has a lot more experience being fiscally responsible than California.

As for unemployment. Rhode Island and Michigan are at 9.3% and California is right behind at 8.2%.

rokemronnie on December 16, 2008 at 10:22 PM

Big Three Bailout – Give Me a Break (Video) (5min) (John Stossel, 20/20)

Poptech on December 17, 2008 at 12:23 AM

Where Would GM Be Without the United Automobile Workers Union? (George Reisman, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Economics)

Without the UAW, General Motors would not be faced with extinction. Instead, it would almost certainly be a vastly larger, far more prosperous company, producing more and better motor vehicles than ever before, at far lower costs of production and prices than it does today, and providing employment to hundreds of thousands more workers than it does today. Few things are more obvious than that the role of the UAW in relation to General Motors has been that of a swarm of bloodsucking leeches, a swarm that will not stop until its prey exists no more. It is difficult to believe that people who have been neither lobotomized nor castrated would not rise up and demand that these leeches finally be pulled off! – George Reisman, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Economics

Poptech on December 17, 2008 at 12:40 AM