http://www.thefire.org/

Y-not on December 15, 2008 at 4:10 PM

Well here in NY, we have the “Professional Staff Congress.” To them everything is an academic matter…but the board fights them day in and day out. Lately by appealing directly to student councils they’ve been able to disarm some tactics used by the unions. Im sure there are student governments out there who arent happy that well to do students are being harassed over opinions…and when spoken to like adults those student councils can be vital allies in fighting overbearing faculty and department chairs. This is a fight, however, that must go on at the local level…know your trustees, know your faculty leaders, know your student leaders, know your budget process and give a damn about your state’s public university system.

you a) overestimate the power of trustee boards and b) underestimate the power of the unions in these matters.

ernesto on December 15, 2008 at 3:48 PM

You’ve raised good points.

In my experience, Trustees are very powerful when it comes to allocation of resources (ie: they usually sign off on capital/building projects, major faculty appointments, and good trustees are major donors to the institution). Trustees are actually officers of the university (ie: they are accountable for the overall health of the institution), but they generally do not get involved in academic matters.

The challenge is coming to an agreement about what is an academic matter and what is something that extends beyond that (such as things that would damage the institution’s reputation).

In terms of unions, they are still (thankfully) pretty rare. Of the 11 institutions in my personal experience, only a couple had unions and those were for service and clerical workers, not the faculty and professional staff who really hold the power.

There is a lot of work that needs to be done to break down the barriers that separate from the academics from the “real world.” A good board of trustees partnered with a strong university president can do a lot, particularly if the institution is in a fundraising campaign. When a university is in campaign the professional staff are actively engaging alumni and the community — and teaching the faculty to do the same — so the institution is postured to “listen” and more open to change. But, rank and file faculty lead most of their professional lives without thinking about these things and, in fairness to them, they are not judged on how effectively they work with the community. That needs to change, but in a way that does not lead to a deterioration in the quality of their scholarship and teaching.

Esthier on December 15, 2008 at 2:31 PM

BINGO. That describes law school for me for three years. I used to say a conservative going to law school is like an atheist join the priesthood. You tell the others “I’m not down with socialism and liberalism” and they respond “then why are you here?”

snaggletoothie on December 15, 2008 at 3:15 PM

you a) overestimate the power of trustee boards and b) underestimate the power of the unions in these matters.

in all fairness the boards cant take ownership of the various departments and mandate school activities/lecture schedules. you are simply asking too much.

what i suggested was that people understand their systems better…find out what they are and arent capable of, and work to those ends. not set some ultimatum that isnt achievable…even if you packed the board with people who “care about education” which i assure you these people do.

People who get into education on the non-union, administrative side ARE the ones who care about education…but look what they’re up against.

How this manifests itself at the faculty ranks is that faculty who are conservative generally remain in the closet, particularly before they get tenure but even after. The effect is that the majority of the faculty operate as if conservatives do not exist. If you assume that all educated/intelligent people are liberal, it will color the asides, examples, and jokes you use in your lectures; the things you say to alumni, prospective faculty, or visitors; and every other interaction you have with the community, students, administration, and colleagues. So the liberalism becomes magnified.

This was my mother’s experience at law school. She told me professors would often come up and talk to her and her friends and talk as though they both agreed with him that Bush was horrible, etc.

Grades are subjective there, so none of them corrected the professors.

With the exception of our time as students (where, admittedly, we were so focussed on getting degrees in the sciences that we would not have noticed much anyway), every place we’ve worked has been to some extent intolerant of conservative viewpoints. And, by “conservative” I just mean typical, run of the mill Republicans or conservative Democrats.

How this manifests itself at the faculty ranks is that faculty who are conservative generally remain in the closet, particularly before they get tenure but even after. The effect is that the majority of the faculty operate as if conservatives do not exist. If you assume that all educated/intelligent people are liberal, it will color the asides, examples, and jokes you use in your lectures; the things you say to alumni, prospective faculty, or visitors; and every other interaction you have with the community, students, administration, and colleagues. So the liberalism becomes magnified.

On top of that, since many faculty have a bit of a Peter Pan complex and they think that most students lean to the left, they are motivated to show how hip they are by expressing their political views openly in class and on campus. All semblance of decorum and professionalism are lost.

The sad thing is that most science and engineering faculty really would be able to focus on their disciplines and leave politics at home if they weren’t positively reinforced to join in on the conservative bashing and if they were required by the administration that they maintain a professional code of conduct at work. But they aren’t. The powerful university administrators — Deans, Provosts, Presidents — usually rise from the faculty ranks, often from the humanities, so they have the same bad professional habits as the faculty they are supposed to supervise.

So, now we’re experiencing a backlash, manifested in part by large segments of the public mistrusting all academics and their work. Whatever the weaknesses are with climate change research, for example, I am concerned that people want to eliminate all research in this area without understanding the benefits that it produces.

I’ve read here and elsewhere that people want reduce funding or not send their kids to college at all. If that happens, the folks who will be disproportionately affected are the science and engineering faculty and, ultimately, their students. Research programs will be cut off when the funding is cut and the faculty will take higher paying jobs in industry. (My lab, which was pretty small, had an annual budget of about $250K. I’m guessing a poetry professor can get by on about $10K a year for travel and publication costs.)

As a result, our kids will be taught by less-qualified people — folks who were probably good students, but who never made a discovery that lead to knowledge in the textbooks from which they are teaching our kids. And, a great deal of important basic research about how the world works will be left undone. I don’t see how that is good for our country.

LevStrauss on December 15, 2008 at 1:32 PM
LevStrauss on December 15, 2008 at 1:38 PM

You make some very good points. I agree that there are far too many students in college who do not belong, and that part of college is learning to think well and stand up for your ideas. Nevertheless, students should be able to count on their professors providing the best information possible, and much of the academy teaches what they wish were true (and, assuming you are not a college prof, let me tell you how dreadful the textbooks are–they are loaded with inaccuracies and simply bad information, because guess who writes them?) Most students simply don’t have the wherewithal (knowledge, time to verify virtually everything, etc.) to withstand a constant onslaught.

Your idea seems contradictory to the nature of the student/professor relationship, in which professors are reasonably expected to know more than students.

DrMagnolias on December 15, 2008 at 12:14 PM

Also this is foreign to me since, on the question of politics and in a political science class, being that we saw differently I didn’t assume he knew more or I knew more. Then I debated him after class and realized that I was more up to snuff than him. These academia liberals are just like libs in big cities, they live around a single minded dominant ideology and they don’t work hard and learn and understand how to defend their views in a hostile environment. The best thing for conservatives is an academia that is a hostile environment because it makes you more agile against your foe.

Students should not have to sort through what information is good or bad from someone whose role is present the truth as best he can.

DrMagnolias on December 15, 2008 at 12:14 PM

This is a basic function necessary for living, let alone learning. Do you assume that the MSM is giving you 100% unaduterated truth? If students cannot sort good information from bad, then they have no critical thinking skills and should not bother going to college. This is part of the problem, now the bad apples aren’t getting weeded out in the college acceptance process because the Feds give out loans to anyone with a pulse and the colleges want that cash to expand their campuses. Too many idiots are going to college is the problem, not that those idiots cannot think for themselves and might be influenced by professors.

They may be…in that case we all need to brush up on our public systems.

ernesto on December 15, 2008 at 12:49 PM

Certainly, and that’s great on a small level. Apathy has also led to these abuses. If more students and parents would address these issues head on, these incidents would be less likely to happen again.

I just don’t think that does much on a larger level, and I think the tendency of a person in a position of authority (especially over kids who are living on their own for the first time and really don’t yet know how to take care of themselves, for the most part) to abuse that authority is too common to be fixed that way.

snaggletoothie on December 15, 2008 at 12:50 PM

You obviously arent familiar with the CUNY board, or with the fact ive been saying im an undergrad all day. And in terms of results…CUNY’s board has brought serious results to the city. Grades are up, graduation rates are up, retention is up, tuition is stable. Mind you, all the reforms that got us there were fought tooth and nail by the unions. I am the furthest from a supporter of teachers unions you will ever meet…its them and their cronyism, their me first attitude towards standards and funding that creates the most trouble for colleges, and that breeds the sort of mentality that leads to an overly leftist set of professors.

Students should not have to sort through what information is good or bad from someone whose role is present the truth as best he can.

DrMagnolias on December 15, 2008 at 12:14 PM

Dr-yes they have to. They will always have to. I have to.

I went to 3 colleges-Bellevue Community College in Bellevue, WA-I had no experiences one way or another with bias. I was well taught there.

UWYO in Laramie,WY-the geology dept. was safe from politics. We were interested in real science. We never discussed politics except one time Global Warming was brought up & many of the professors said “don’t you believe it”.

Dickinson State University, Dickinson,ND-this is where I first encountered liberal bias. Some moron professor from MN, I believe, delighted in calling me a “cow farmer” in his microbiology class. He blatantly would tell us how stupid farmers & ranchers were & how he wanted to infest all available farm & ranchland with prairie dogs so he could buy it up cheap. He treated us rural folks with contempt & disdain. Our opinions were uncouth & uneducated.
He teaches my daughter now & he is still a moron, according to her.

ernesto – the apathy problem is a cancer in this country. Apathy is the hidden “sin” of man. Remember the quote about how evil will prevail when good men stand about and do nothing?
America is approaching ruination bcs of apathy. Look at the voting turnout.
Young people need to be taught to care-by their parents.
We have given public school permission to feed our children in the morning, teach them starting at 3-4 yo, parent them in after-school programs-why would anyone need to be a parent to their children with stuff like this?
I am a rancher & a public school teacher. Even in rural ND PC is here-but not very bad.
We still have X-mas programs with baby Jesus & God in our songs. We have kids reading the bible for enjoyment on our reading days.
I pray we can continue this way.
Most of the kids I teach are skeptical of govt & I teach them in my science class how to disseminate all the info that’s coming at them. I teach them how to see what’s true & what’s not.
I am teaching them critical thinking skills, not just science facts.
That’s what people really need-critical thinking skills. These closely mirror common sense (which you can’t teach).

support your local public university board of trustees ernesto

Spoken like a teacher who doesn’t want funding to go down. Those boards will get my support when they return results that deserve support.

Esthier on December 15, 2008 at 12:44 PM

They may be…in that case we all need to brush up on our public systems. Who’s on the board of trustees, who are the faculty leaders, and how can we hold them accountable. I know in CUNY (where I attend college), the board and the unions are at odds so often the union protests at board meetings constantly. Luckily for us, the board meetings are televised, so we see just how uncooperative the unions really are. Ally with trustees…they’re there to represent the will of the community, not the faculty, and in systems like CUNY can throw out college presidents.

When eco-fanatics at UC-Berkeley illegally saddled themselves in trees on campus and hurled urine and feces to block the construction of a multi-million dollar athletic facility, probably the last thing they expected was to be called racists.

I’d call them chimps, since the behavioral patterns match.

ernesto on December 15, 2008 at 12:23 PM

I don’t know about that. Evan Maloney came up with plenty of examples, ones that were fairly egregious.

Without an organization keeping track of all of these abuses of power, how do we really know how common this is?

And I don’t doubt that most students can voice their opinions. I know that was my own case in college. However, I know students who were punished with bad grades if their opinion didn’t line up with the professors. Maloney even came up with a case where a student was expelled from school because of his opinion on a paper that was given an A-. He only got back in through legal intervention.

While I don’t want to claim all colleges are indoctrination camps, I think these offenses are more common than you believe them to be.

…when they’re threatened with legal action or expulsion and one that aims to inform students of their rights…

Esthier on December 15, 2008 at 12:16 PM

Thats just the thing…those sorts of scenarios are so very rare. Theres a difference between some faculty council that has control over guest lecturers being pains the in the neck and only inviting hard lefties and some activist student getting expelled. Im positive all students can go into a classroom an express an opinion without being expelled. Even if that opinion is “gays are immoral and going to hell.” In fact, were the class a religious studies course, that sort of statement would probably be encouraged, if for no other reason than a starting point for further discussion…but lets be clear here…there are no mass expulsions of conservative students going on in colleges across the nation…just lefty academics hoarding what little power over curriculum or scheduling they have left. If anything, support your local public university board of trustees…they’re almost always at odds with faculty…often over the same sorts of labor issues we find ourselves discussing here…let alone ideological differences.

before the supposed “indoctrination” at our schools (which i dont buy, being a public university student in NYC currently) is apathy. They barely vote, they can’t point to idaho or iraq on a map, and we give a crap if they think bush is hitler?

Not being able to point to Idaho is not apathy. It is ignorance. Why didn’t anyone ever teach you that Idaho and Iraq are capitalized?
What clear thinking person wants college kids to vote? We can just be thankful that so few do.