Global warming arrives in Minnesota
posted at 2:27 pm on December 15, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Looks peaceful and placid, right? Not when you have to shovel the driveway and the wind is gusting up to 20 MPH. In order to get the barrels out this morning for the trash pickup, I had to clear the driveway first — and even bundled up and wearing my heaviest winter gloves, my fingers went numb about five minutes into the effort. I did manage to finish in about 20 minutes, getting back into the house at just the moment one of the First Mate’s friends informed us that they knew of a service that would have done the job for about twelve dollars. I probably would have spent that much to stay warm.
For the record, our below-zero days usually come in January and February, not December. It looks as though we will have a second long, cold winter in a row. That’s what makes this report from the AP so ludicrous:
When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore. Now it is a ticking time bomb that President-elect Barack Obama can’t avoid. …
Mother Nature, of course, is oblivious to the federal government’s machinations. Ironically, 2008 is on pace to be a slightly cooler year in a steadily rising temperature trend line. Experts say it’s thanks to a La Nina weather variation. While skeptics are already using it as evidence of some kind of cooling trend, it actually illustrates how fast the world is warming.
The average global temperature in 2008 is likely to wind up slightly under 57.9 degrees Fahrenheit, about a tenth of a degree cooler than last year. When Clinton was inaugurated, 57.9 easily would have been the warmest year on record. Now, that temperature would qualify as the ninth warmest year.
Did the AP forget how to do research? The warmest years on record mostly occurred before Clinton became President — and before Clinton was born. John at Power Line, suffering under the same weather conditions as me at the moment, noted this last night:
This displays a remarkable level of ignorance on the part of the Associated Press. Global temperature records are nowhere near accurate enough to rank years, over a period of centuries, with any confidence. For the recent past, though, we have the world’s best data set here in the U.S. And it’s true that at one time, it was widely believed that the 1990s were the warmest recent decade. But that was before it was discovered that NASA’s James Hansen, Al Gore’s chief scientific ally, had been fudging the data, either accidentally or on purpose. NASA was forced to correct its data, with the result that the ten warmest years on record here in the US are as follows: 1934, 1998, 1921, 2006, 1931, 1999, 1953, 1990, 1938, 1939.
The AP apparently hasn’t gotten the word, perhaps because it is relying on the report of the U.N.’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. But the IPCC report was a political document, not a scientific one, which deliberately ignored the most current research in the field.
They haven’t gotten the word? More likely, they have ignored it in order to engage in global-warming hysteria. Meanwhile, Hot Air readers in Minnesota should try to keep bundled up to avoid frostbite from all that global warming that just got delivered overnight.
Update: I forgot to mention that it was -8 when I woke up, and -6 when I cleared the driveway … with a -26 wind chill. Yee-haw.
Update II: Actually, I have both a longish driveway and a snowthrower — but the latter is in the shop at the moment. Believe me, I missed it this morning.
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sorry for double post, sort of. thought it was eaten
JiangxiDad on December 15, 2008 at 4:27 PM
upanik, how does finding pollen and micro-organism remains in ancient ice cores negate the CO2 also found trapped there?
starfleet_dude on December 15, 2008 at 4:27 PM
Yeah, enjoyed the 40 degree weekend. Did not enjoy my car doors being frozen shut. Then, after getting the door open, it wouldn’t close. Drove to work with one hand holding the door closed.
What is it I like about this state, again?
MadisonConservative on December 15, 2008 at 4:28 PM
I used to have to go to MN on business. Fortunately, I mostly went in June and July. However, once I had to go in January. Glad to be back home in Texas where, yesterday, I was driving around with the top down on the car….
Don’t forget: for the last few years there has been an observable shrinkage of the polar ice caps — on Mars.
Kafir on December 15, 2008 at 4:28 PM
Did the sea level rise in the middle ages?
Johan Klaus on December 15, 2008 at 4:28 PM
What? I document how it’s been human activity that’s led to an 104ppm rise in CO2 levels over the past two hundred years, and you pull this “yearly” figure out of your hat?
starfleet_dude on December 15, 2008 at 4:29 PM
Also, what would drive the desperate movement of millions of refugees from Bangladesh would be a rise in sea level followed by a typhoon. It doesn’t take much of a rise to cover considerable areas of the Ganges delta.
starfleet_dude on December 15, 2008 at 4:31 PM
Anyway, the objections about how global warming can’t be happening are nothing new. Like creationism, global warming denialists habitually cherry-pick some data that they say proves global warming isn’t happening (or if it is, that it isn’t due to what humans are doing), or try to stir up whatever fear, uncertainty and doubt they can on the actual science. All the while, those who cite such things seem unaware that much of what they’re referring to is stuff created and passed along by denialist organizations funded by oil and coal companies, just like creationists are funded by religious organizations who believe in the literal word of the Bible. The tactics of both are the same, and it’s unfortunate that so many unquestioningly repeat their mistruths. It’s one thing to have a skeptical point of view, but denialists are not true skeptics at all.
starfleet_dude on December 15, 2008 at 4:32 PM
The football and the beer dude, the football and the beer.
BadgerHawk on December 15, 2008 at 4:33 PM
LOL! That was seriously brilliant! :)
Oink on December 15, 2008 at 4:34 PM
Oh! A new word. I love new words.
The fact is that the proper term is, “denieratorists”.
progressoverpeace on December 15, 2008 at 4:34 PM
The latest pronouncement from the Church of Climate Change is that cold weather is caused by global warming. That’s because no matter what weather we get it’s important that we don’t lose faith in the genius of Rev. Al Gore.
Fred 2 on December 15, 2008 at 4:35 PM
That’s clever.
BadgerHawk on December 15, 2008 at 4:38 PM
Wow! We actually beat MN here in Denver! It was -18 last night with a windchill of -36. DEFINITELY not the usual for this time of year. We do get below zero but usually not until the end of January.
Sat was 58 so we had quite a temperature drop Sat night to -11. 6 inches of snow too, with more on the way.
We could use a bit of global warming right now. How about a sun dance?
Common Sense on December 15, 2008 at 4:39 PM
And in other news, the sky is green, and white is black. Just how stupid do they think their readers are? At least I have the satisfaction of knowing that thousands of scientists have finally realized that I was right all along, that there is no anthropogenic global warming.
Vashta.Nerada on December 15, 2008 at 4:39 PM
Greenland was called Greenland because it was …green. Olive trees werw grown in the Rhur Valley in Germany. Of course it too cold to grow them there now.
Johan Klaus on December 15, 2008 at 4:40 PM
Actually it was called “Greenland” by Erik the Red who was trying to sell real estate there to suckers, er, enterprising Vikings I mean…
starfleet_dude on December 15, 2008 at 4:42 PM
I think I learned something similar in grade school. Seriously. Plus, Iceland got it’s name because they didn’t want anymore immigrants. Is that true or was that just 1970’s public education at work?
Oink on December 15, 2008 at 4:44 PM
Sounds like gore’s scientific evidence.
Johan Klaus on December 15, 2008 at 4:45 PM
We are in Alice in Wonderland. We’re in a nightmare and we can’t shake ourselves awake.
Oink on December 15, 2008 at 4:45 PM
Olive trees werw grown in the Rhur Valley in Germany. Of course it too cold to grow them there now.
And England was once known for its wines.
Bishop on December 15, 2008 at 4:46 PM
not kidding, I thought the Vikings called Greenland “Green land” becasue they wanted to encourage people to emigrate there, even though it was not very hospitable…and similarly, they called Iceland ” Ice land” becasue they wanted to discourage people from going there, keeping it for themselves. This is what I was taught a long time ago; have I been wrong all these years?
Red State State of Mind on December 15, 2008 at 4:46 PM
This can work both ways. i.e.:
“Like creationism, global warming believers habitually cherry-pick some data that they say proves global warming is happening…”
And it’s not only about the data, it’s also about the validity of the models, and what should or should not be done about it.
Should we destroy the global economy based on a shaky hypothesis? And after that happens, will anybody really care about curbing their CO2 emissions? Ask China to please don’t worry about starvation, just shut down your coal power plants?
ZenDraken on December 15, 2008 at 4:46 PM
Oceans rising is nothing new. Its mean happening for thousands of years, and gone up some 400 ft. People move to higher ground. A typhoon later is not going to be much different than a typhoon now or in the past.
Count to 10 on December 15, 2008 at 4:47 PM
Your place looks a lot like ours used to. We had 1 1/2 feet of snow but we lost quite a bit of it because of a warmish (40 deg.) drizzle yesterday. Now we’re 15 degrees and everything is ice.
We can’t use a snowblower on our drive way because it’s way too big. Instead, we have to have it plowed out. Well, technically we don’t have a drive way. We have a parking lot.
Kim Priestap on December 15, 2008 at 4:47 PM
Yes, didn’t you know England was connected to Europe before the invention of the automobile?
hehe
18-1 on December 15, 2008 at 4:49 PM
Now all we have to do is figure out how to ever keep the oceans from rising, ever, anywhere.
Bishop on December 15, 2008 at 4:50 PM
Bishop on December 15, 2008 at 4:50 PM
Tell the POTUS-Elect. He’ll take care of it. /sarc
kingsjester on December 15, 2008 at 4:52 PM
thomasaur on December 15, 2008 at 4:52 PM
This cannot be true. Greenland was hospitable enough to support dairy farms. Cows do not fall for real estate scams.
ZenDraken on December 15, 2008 at 4:53 PM
Associated Press = Associated Propoganda
Seven Percent Solution on December 15, 2008 at 4:55 PM
Are the oceans really rising or are all of the land masses on the planet sinking?
thomasaur on December 15, 2008 at 4:55 PM
I have not heard that theory, but I graduated from college in 19–, before too many liberals got in control of higher education. And I doubt that the liberals had control of education in Eric’s time.
Johan Klaus on December 15, 2008 at 4:56 PM
Curiouser and curiouser.
Cheshire Cat on December 15, 2008 at 4:57 PM
For anyone who’s interested, check out climateaudit.org. Steve McIntyre is one of the guys who destroyed Mann’s Hockey Stick a few years ago, and has taken up the task of analyzing the models and raw data tirelessly. He blogs about it constantly, and has consistently found minor to huge errors in the models used by the AGW scientists.
He’s been involved in some serious tussles with the data keepers, trying to extract the raw data so that he can perform his own analysis. The gate keepers, because they’re so much smarter and world-wise than us peons, have fought tooth and nail to keep their algorithms and raw data a secret. When he does get the original raw data sets, more often than not he will find huge gaps in the data that are “mysteriously” filled later in with data that supports AGW. Funny, that.
Much of the work that McIntyre does is dense. It takes some pretty solid knowledge/understanding of mathematical and statistical modeling to really grok what he’s saying. But it’s worth the effort. And he’s got a comment section, where he really makes an effort to answer criticism and rebuttals to his work. He doesn’t claim perfection, but he is a serious statistician who is willing to do the work to challenge the lazy thinking and deceptive modeling going on in the climate science world.
nukemhill on December 15, 2008 at 5:01 PM
Greenland was indeed green at the time and suppported a Viking colony. When it got colder during the mini-Ice Age they mostly died out.
The story I’ve heard most often told about Iceland states that it was called that because one of the earliest explorers of the island saw ice from a high point on the island.
18-1 on December 15, 2008 at 5:03 PM
upinak are you one of those California-Alaskans? You sure seem to have trouble with the cold weather.
benny shakar on December 15, 2008 at 5:08 PM
starfleet_dude, you do not impress me. I read your post on “denialists” and their supposed funding by oil companies or what-not, and it reads as a piece of propaganda. At the very least, you didn’t come up with any of it and you’re just repeating what you’ve been told to say.
And in case anyone cares, I’m a scientist. I’ve been to six of the seven continents to include Antarctica and the arctic. I’ve seen geologic evidence of waterfalls at ~80 deg S, Antarctic forests ~30k and ~100k years ago, and I’ve seen drowned polar bears in the arctic. I’ll spare you too many gory details, but even if there were no human beings on the planet it would still be warming up. This current spate of low temperatures is part of the wide variation that is normal. We have data on global temps and CO2 content going back to almost 100,000 years thanks to ice cores, and our planet is currently undergoing a cyclic, predictable warm period. Good thing, too, ’cause otherwise we’d be living in an ice age, which is actually more typical than our current climate historically speaking.
Now, it never hurts to be careful with our environment and to be good stewards of the only planet we have. Controlling our CO2 emissions is probably a good thing, as our planet has never seen the measurable CO2 increase we’ve inflicted on it and we really don’t know what it will do (climate modelers be damned). With that said, the global warming yahoos are either alarmists who cherry-pick data, politicians, or mindless followers who think they’re serving their political masters by repeating the kind of crap that starfleet_dude has to offer. Again; I am not impressed, and I’m certainly not going to advocate crippling our economy or brainwashing our children over their breathless, vapid hysteria.
commenter on December 15, 2008 at 5:16 PM
from http://explorenorth.com/library/weekly/aa121799.htm
For over 200 years agriculture supported colonies in Greenland. Information on the details of the warm periods in Europe and the North Atlantic regions is readily available on-line, in books, and on cable science programming to disprove the myth stated above about the origin of the name Greenland. BTW, did you know that hundreds of years ago the French King instituted trade tax levies in that country to keep out cheaper wine from northern England?
in_awe on December 15, 2008 at 5:17 PM
There isn’t anything special about CO2 made by human activity. Photons don’t look for some “Made in the USA” tag when they get absorbed by whatever molecules they happen to hit.
When the CO2 levels in the atmosphere were up above 4000 ppm, (i.e. throughout almost all of Earth’s history) there wasn’t a runaway positive feedback cycle that killed everything. Why on earth would you expect anyone to believe that there would be a runaway feedback effect at less than one tenth of that amount?
Ha We on December 15, 2008 at 5:18 PM
As for La Nina:
JPL says: FORGET LA NINA: OSCILLATION RULES AS THE PACIFIC COOLS
INC on December 15, 2008 at 5:27 PM
During the Medieval Warm Period (ca. 1000 to 1300) the Viking settlers raised sheep along the grassy coasts of Greenland. Then they abandoned it around 1400, and it’s still too cold for sheep.
Actually, a little of both. The earth’s crust is not static, but rises or falls slightly due to the weight on it, such as that of oceans or glaciers. If a glacier melts, and the water flows into the ocean, the sea-bottom sinks slightly under the extra weight, but the additional pressure would force the glacier-bed upward under the lighter load.
The opposite would happen if a glacier were to thicken on a continent–the land under the glacier would be pushed down a little, and the sea bed would rise. Geologists call this process “isostasis”.
So when someone reports that the sea level is rising 2 millimeters per year, that’s relative to the land whose shoreline is changing, which itself might be rising or sinking. Still, 2 mm/year isn’t much to worry about. The disaster scenario shown in “Inconvenient Truth” is the result of a hypothetical 20-foot rise in sea level. Twenty feet is 6,096 millimeters, meaning it would take 3,000 years at current rates.
Since we’ve already had two long periods of warmer climates than now over the PAST 3,000 years (one during Roman times, and the Medieval Warm Period) followed by sharp cooling, chances are we’ll have another cooling period over the next 3,000 years, and sea levels will go back down again before Florida is drowned.
Ocean levels can rise due to thermal expansion, and sea ice areas can decrease due to warming of the oceans. But this phenomenon tends to be self-correcting with relatively warm, open water near a cold land-mass like Greenland or Antartica. Open water tends to increase evaporation rates, and storms tend to form along the sharp temperature boundary between the land and sea, resulting in high snowfall rates on mountains on the cold land mass. If snow accumulates in winter faster than it melts in summer, glaciers will become thicker. But the evaporation also removes heat from the ocean, which tends to cool it until the ocean freezes, which slows down the evaporation rate.
We see this phenomenon every fall and winter, on a smaller scale, on the lee shores of the Great Lakes. In November and December, when the lakes are open and relatively warm, cold air out of Canada picks up moisture and gives heavy snow to the southern and eastern shores of the Great Lakes. Later in winter, as the lakes freeze, snowfall rates drop sharply, with February being the driest month.
Summers are warm enough around the Great Lakes to completely melt all winter snow. But what about snow dumped on Greenland, beyond 65 degrees north latitude, at altitudes above 2,000 meters? Up there, the temperature rarely gets above freezing, even in summer, and the glaciers get THICKER when there is open water along the coast.
Steve Z on December 15, 2008 at 5:29 PM
<>
Think again. The effect of increased CO2 and global warming is so small as to be generally unmeasurable. In fact, the science has any additional warming effect (if there is one) after reaching the current level of C02 and beyond to be minimal. The earth is now entering a cooling phase because of the lack of sun spots, which is another way of saying, we were in a warm phase because of increased solar activity, NOT man-made CO2.
For scientific references start with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAUdDLTLXGU
droofus on December 15, 2008 at 5:35 PM
Clearly, this is the warmest 100 years on record. We must do something for the children! For the children!
Y’know, most of us here would be in favor of changes if we felt that global warming on a catastrophic level was going to occur.
But most of us just don’t believe the elites when they feed us this nonsense. Like when we’re told only “the rich” are going to be taxed. Or that all it takes are hugs and smiles to prevent war.
And this is always how it works: the elites feed us a line, and then tell us we’re not smart enough to debate it.
“You just don’t understand. The snow is irrelevant. What’s important is that it’s warming. Little details like it not actually warming are also irrelevant. If only you went to an Ivy League school like me, instead of being a bible-thumping gun-toter, you’d understand.”
12thMonkey on December 15, 2008 at 5:40 PM
I think most of us are in agreement that it’s cold and getting colder. We are spiraling out of control into an ice covered planet thanx to the wise policies of our CO2 cutting overlords. However, now that we are enjoying growing glaciers and heavy snow in Mississippi in mid-December, we must make sure that we do not become a victim of our success! We have to stop global cooling! How can we force banks in the upper Midwest to make house loans to the underprivileged when all of the housing is under a mile of ice?!
I propose that we act quickly, but in a way that is fun for all. Drive more gas guzzling cars and SUVs more miles while singing tribute songs to Al Gore with the family. We can drill here, drill now, burn more! And don’t forget FLATULENT FRIDAY’S! Let ‘er rip for the planet we all love before all of the snow machines are out of stock and the price is too high for the common man.
If we fail, at least we can open up trade between Alaska and Russia via the land bridge that will bring us all closer together.
Ordinary1 on December 15, 2008 at 5:53 PM
Does the “Z” stand for zapper?
It seems like when you make one of your intelligent posts, it zaps all of the trolls and they disappear.
right2bright on December 15, 2008 at 6:03 PM
Actually some scientist over the weekend said that it is still global warming, but we are going through a mini-cycle of cooling, and the warming will begin again in 2015.
I mean, how can you argue that logic?
right2bright on December 15, 2008 at 6:05 PM
No doubt Steve. Great post!
Ordinary1 on December 15, 2008 at 6:05 PM
My head just blew up.
ThePrez on December 15, 2008 at 6:06 PM
What amazes me the most is that you pack of dufus are actually wasting time replying to crap being spouted by a guy called starfleet_dude?!?!
Damn, pissing in the wind would be more effective. Quick, someone named Captain Douchebag on pajamas media is refuting creationism! Let’s Get Him!
/eats
Falconsword on December 15, 2008 at 6:23 PM
Here in Tulsa, OK it is 18 degrees as we write. Bring on Global Warming — where is it when we need it! And when are we going to make these alarmist clowns look like the emporer in his new clothes? Are we condemned to have our country go along with this hoax just because the powerful want it that way? We need to take our country back!
Even if global warming were occuring (which it obviously is not), the cap and trade solution is the worst because it will drive us all to socialism and ruin our economy. And even the proponents have to admit that their solution won’t solve the problem, but just lower the temp by less than a degree! If we had to build dikes around NYC and Miami, LA and San Fransisco (well, maybe we wouldn’t bother with San Fransicso — just kidding!) it would still be cheaper than what the climaterrorists are proposing!
Christian Conservative on December 15, 2008 at 6:26 PM
I’ve been praying for global warming now off and on for a couple years. What did it get me? Record cold in Alabama.
Does the Big Guy have a sense of humor or what?
Scientists think that the dinosaurs lived millions of years with higher levels of tempurature, CO2, O2, and humidity. Looks like a formula for generations of more life and bigger animals. I hope cockroaches don’t get that much bigger though. :)
I miss the warming of two years ago. Now we are cooling again. This sucks.
Sapwolf on December 15, 2008 at 6:36 PM
When I left the house to go to work this morning…yes, I work outside,…it was -20 with a windchill of -26. Here in Colorado that’s a bit early for that. How I wished for global warming today.
boomer on December 15, 2008 at 6:41 PM
Hey Steve,
“Got any mo dem dare longhaired books?”
Foghorn Leghorn
Sapwolf on December 15, 2008 at 6:41 PM
It’s like that movie with Charlie Sheen where the aliens are artificially creating more CO2 to make the planet more favorable to them so they can take over the planet. These are the illegal aliens we should worry about. :)
Sapwolf on December 15, 2008 at 6:44 PM
and it was “snowing” in Houston a week ago. I have never seen snow in this area in any early December. Global
warming my #@!.
gary on December 15, 2008 at 6:46 PM
The Northwest Passage was navigated by wooden sailing ships 100 years ago. Liberals in 1906 reportedly blamed the widespread use of Stanley Steamer horseless carriages for the depletion of the ice pack at the North Pole allowing the passage to be transited in open waters.
in_awe on December 15, 2008 at 6:47 PM
starfleet_dude condescended to inform the unwashed masses:
People like you can continue to try to berate the rest of us into rejecting our own common sense in favor of the self-appointed experts, but you’re losing your audience in droves.
I mean, screw you. I have a freaking memory. We unwashed are capable of noticing that it’s not getting any warmer. If your precious global warming is too subtle to notice without an advanced degree, even after 20 years of dire warnings, and you’re still cheerleading for the team, lecturing and insulting people for refusing to buy your crap wholesale, maybe you should be taking another look at the data yourself. Just to make absolutely certain that you’re not making an obnoxious ass of yourself. Or letting yourself be used by the most obvious of con men.
Wishing you a Happy Screw You from Michigan, where we should have known that global warming would let us down too.
ral514 on December 15, 2008 at 6:49 PM
starfleet was one of the resident college kids at Ed’s Captain’s Quarters blog before Ed moved here. He’s harmless, just like a potted plant or a piece of lawn furniture. Let’s not forget, according to MSNBC, O’bama won 70% of the high school dropout votes in such battleground states as Ohio and Floriduh
Latest news from here in New Hampshire-after the Great Ice Storm of 2008 on Thursday, we still have over 150,000 NH people without power. Many won’t get it back unti later this week. I “only” lost my juice for 2 1/2 days. They made some progress today, as it was 50 degrees and most of the ice simple melted.
Look for a large jump in the northenr New England birth rate about 9 months from now…
Del Dolemonte on December 15, 2008 at 7:19 PM
DUDE, last month I started an internet campaign to “SAVE THE SNOWMEN.” Essentially, for 1500.00 dollars I would plant a carbon-offsetting dogwood tree in my back yard and send the donor a certificate (on 100% recycled paper) commending them for being a good steward of the earth…
You have to kill this thread NOW!!! It is bad for my business.
Fundamental Fred on December 15, 2008 at 7:23 PM
Funny that it is cold in the WINTER and warm in the SUMMER and somewhere in-between SPRING and FALL. Some seasons are warmer than others and some are cooler. I grew up thinking this was what happened when the SEASONS CHANGE.
*headdesk*
illustr8r on December 15, 2008 at 7:25 PM
I’m freezing my a$$ off here in Minneapolis! We need Global Warming NOW!
sabbott on December 15, 2008 at 7:33 PM
It’s 29.6 degrees F here in Round Rock, Central Texas, at 6:30 in the evening. School openings are delayed until 10:00 tomorrow, due to the predicted freezing rain, tonight. When the lovely and charming Debbie came to visit Texas for the first time 11 years ago, it was 74 degrees and we went hiking over the lake in shorts and T-shirts.
By the AP’s carefully modeled, scientifically validated reasoning, by mid-December 2019, it should be approximately -14.8 degrees, assuming that we can still live around here. You see, the melting ice caps will have surely by then caused the Gulf of Mexico to have innundated much of coastal Texas, certainly as far as San Antonio, and perhaps as far as the Waxahatchie metroplex. (2019, remember?) It’s a good thing we live on a hill, and have lots of ammunitiion.
This is surely global warming at it’s worst, until next year!
I’ll get back to working on our Global Warming Awareness Quilt. Save the planet! It’s the only one with beer.
Peyton on December 15, 2008 at 7:44 PM
I live in Arkansas and it’s been 18 degrees all day long.
DerKrieger on December 15, 2008 at 7:44 PM
Hello neighbor. Moravia, Texas
Johan Klaus on December 15, 2008 at 7:51 PM
How about your pipes freezing in your house because you like it colder then others? I keep my house at 64 degrees but my house is old and the insulation isn’t high standard. Hmmmm guess I should have had the inspector check the insides of the walls.
Benny how about we meet. I am SURE you being of liberal mind wouldn’t mind having a nice meeting concerning you and I and how we can speak about Alaska and whom has been up here longer and the politics of it all.
But I am sure you are to much of a chicken to even bother and besides you never stay on track concerning any subject anyways. Also, do you mind if I carry my .40 cal? I don’t go anywhere without it.
upinak on December 15, 2008 at 8:07 PM
The bottom of my shoe to the feckless AP writer.
Since when did the press make facts, truth and morality a basis for any story? They are selling ideology and forcing agendas. They’ve learned from Hitler’s propaganda machine what works and they are hell bent on destroying the free world.
wepeople on December 15, 2008 at 8:09 PM
over at Ace’s he is saying that the skiing industry wants bail-outs….
via Michelle-ski industry wants bail outs
Of course we’ve been here before….
Kraft durch Freude(strength through joy
sven10077 on December 15, 2008 at 8:11 PM
here at Ft Polk La La Land it has been floating within 10 degrees of freezing for a week and a half….
remember it is *not* global warming the cult renamed it “abrupt climate change” so heads they win and tails we lose.
sven10077 on December 15, 2008 at 8:13 PM
HAHAHHAHAHHA! Skiing industry… just wait, next will be the dog sled teams, and then the sledhead industry (snow machiners).
upinak on December 15, 2008 at 8:14 PM
We had a really hard freezing rain that turned into a snow and THAT is what is hard on the pheasants and other critters.This is an early winter for us, and really cold.
The birds hate this freezing rain and can withstand snow/cold much better.
lizzee on December 15, 2008 at 8:14 PM
Yeah it is surreal….you ever hear of the Fantasy RPG Shadowrun?
Anyway I never played it but I did get suckered into reading the novels based on the game….the timeline calls for the US government to be a shell of itself by about 2011 or so if I recall correctly….they said the Amerinds were to blame, but I am suspecting Mullah the Mullato here to do the job for them….
Main thing is that at a minimum we are running the risk of a rising corpratism that is going to be as stupid and inane as mercantilism was….
they screw us out of our money on the front end by charging us for the goods and services we buy and will screw us on the other end via taxes.
sven10077 on December 15, 2008 at 8:22 PM
One of the big demographic changes in the last few generations is people leaving the northern States for the southern States – the most classic case being NY retirees in FL – but it is a widespread event.
I wonder how much of the cult of AGW is people for whom the climate really has noticeably warmed – but because they have moved.
Call it the human “heat island” effect.
18-1 on December 15, 2008 at 8:27 PM
Denied, I live at the beach and it is in the same place it was 15 years ago and my house is still not flooded – so much for faulty satellite data.
Claim That Sea Level Is Rising Is a Total Fraud (PDF) (Nils-Axel Mörner, Ph.D. Emeritus Professor of Paleogeophysics & Geodynamics)
Poptech on December 15, 2008 at 8:49 PM
sven10077 on December 15, 2008 at 8:52 PM
well he’ll explain to you any second that you are making the false assumption that it is a GLOBAL rise it is just everywhere but your beach and at my old condo at Myrtle Beach….
our negative auras are forcing the tides to cover the rise….
sven10077 on December 15, 2008 at 8:52 PM
Oh COURSE the water is rising. It happens more often then not due to scientific fact of the sun, moon and degrees of seasons and sunspots. It is called high tide… best time to go fishing IMO!
;)
upinak on December 15, 2008 at 8:54 PM
Yawn…
- Carbon Dioxide (CO2) levels in the atmosphere have risen from 0.028% to 0.038% over the past 100 years. (IPCC)
- Carbon Dioxide accounts for about 4.2-8.4% of the greenhouse effect.
- Humans can only claim responsibility for 3.4% of the Carbon Dioxide (CO2) emitted to the atmosphere annually. (Source)
- Humans can only claim responsibility for 0.28% of the greenhouse effect.
- Water Vapor + Clouds account for 90-95% of the greenhouse effect
First of all I believe in evolution. Yet you interject this to derail the thread because you cannot back up your propaganda with science. But you touched on all the Alarmist talking points – yawn.
Global Warming Ad Hominem Attacks Show Alarmist Believers’ Desperation (The Heartland Institute)
Please explain what I am denying but first prove man-made global warming using the scientific method.
Poptech on December 15, 2008 at 9:00 PM
Del’s right, the fleet dude came out to play with us at Captains Quarters quite often with the same results. If it wasn’t the fleet dude, it was monkei or bayam. A really good night was when all three came out to play on the same thread.
It’s coming up on 7:00 here, and the temp reads -19, supposed to snow soon with winds bringing the temp down to a smooth -29. Got the fireplace raging and the hot cider flowing. Both of our boys are home and safe. All (4) dogs are inside for the night and have taken up residence directly in front of the fireplace. We just finished off some really good deer steaks. Life is good!
Keemo on December 15, 2008 at 9:01 PM
If anyone is interested on the skeptical I mean “denialist” arguments please watch these videos:
Censored Global Warming Videos
Poptech on December 15, 2008 at 9:01 PM
FACT: Only Computer Illiterates believe in “Man-Made” Global Warming
What people do not understand is that there is no proof of “Man-Made” Global Warming without using irrelevant computer models. Yes computer models have a place in engineering but are utterly useless at fortune telling, I mean “climate prediction”. With engineering you can build and test in the real world to confirm the computer model’s accuracy. You can do no such thing with the planet Earth and it’s climate. You cannot build a planet and it’s atmosphere to “test” your computer climate model.
I am a computer analyst and can program a computer model to do whatever I want. If you program a computer model so that X amount of CO2 increase “forces” X amount of temperature increase then it will happen, this does not make this true in the real world.
Poptech on December 15, 2008 at 9:03 PM
Good luck….
sincerely it is models on top of models based on models that can’t predict weather ten days out but can sincerely can tell you the temperature in 100 years….
speaking of models on top of models…..erm sorry wrong forum.
sven10077 on December 15, 2008 at 9:03 PM
Ed, I could almost feel sorry for you if it weren’t for the 15″s we got last week; the temp falling 20degrees this morning in an hour and 70mph gusts that closed the Mackinaw
Bridge to traffic. Yeah, it’s a good thing we got the Global Warming!
flytier on December 15, 2008 at 9:04 PM
How did your shock treatment go? Or was it a frontal lobotomy?
thomasaur on December 15, 2008 at 9:09 PM
He’s a Doubting Thomas not an Bloviating Albert…..
I *believe* in evolution but not spontaneous life creation by anything other than an intelligent outside force….tell you what whip me up some life from minerals, chemicals and electricity m’kay?
sven10077 on December 15, 2008 at 9:13 PM
But,but its Global Warming,because ummmmmmmmmm,the snow
is warm,and,uuuummmmmmmmm,therefore ah,it is warm all
over,ah,and uummmm,therefor ah,ummmmmmm,its,
mans fault!! (Sarc!)
canopfor on December 15, 2008 at 9:15 PM
The science of global warming does not collapse on one or two years below average, just as one or two particularly warm years shouldn’t be something to get worked up about. It’s about a long term trend of net global warming that has different manifestations in certain areas of the globe.
As conservatives and libertarians we should focus our opposition to intrusive and dangerous government regulation on the fact and principle and not fall into science denial.
starflyer on December 15, 2008 at 9:35 PM
Sorry upinak I am sure you’re a nice girl but I’m not interested.
I suggest you try hannidate. :)
benny shakar on December 15, 2008 at 9:37 PM
Rewarding a “science” that was only off by 3000% in its predictions of where we’d be right now with defacto control over our economic system and personal liberties is a bit “re*arded”.
I am a tax preparer, and a hazmat specialist I screw up by more than 15% on your taxes I get fined….I screw up on more than 3% of the cargo I load or clean up at a cargo company or clean-up sight I can get fined and/or go to Jail…..
I’ll reiterate 3000% off…..
Robert Ehrlich has as much credibility as Gaius Caligula.
sven10077 on December 15, 2008 at 9:41 PM
Yeah Binny I bet….you interested in joining with me on Al’s Antarctic Enclave Estates?
I figure we’ll either call our Antarctic colony that or New Texas if I can’t get enough leftoids in on the idea….
since global warming is breaking out all over I figure we’ll have a fairly sovereign plug of arable land there on the bottom of the Earth…..see you there.
sven10077 on December 15, 2008 at 9:43 PM
I’m not sure what the 3000% off comment is referring to, but climate science is a deep field and the validity of the discipline does not stand or fall on one study. Regardless, I would wager that that number is based on a misinterpretation of the research. It’s also a false analogy to compare climate science with tax preparation; one is retrospective and the other prospective. Science always deals with error bars, but we close those over time and consensus emerges. Few serious climate scientists engage in global warming denial.
As I indicated, I’m opposed to any of the regulation I’ve heard proposed with regard to global warming. However, the trend is real and science will get us out of this jam through new technologies. I just hate to see conservatives (and the country at large) turn our backs on science.
starflyer on December 15, 2008 at 9:58 PM
Global Warming is nonsense! It is a lie! A lot of scientist that swore it was Global Warming, or Climate Change. Are now saying that it is not true. There are things we can change for air quality. But Global Warming is a joke.
sheebe on December 15, 2008 at 10:02 PM
When they predict that the temperature will rise by 10 degrees(before Congress in the early 90s) and it winds up going up(arguably) .1 degress and also arguably only .03 degrees that is a pretty epic PHAIL.
There is no evidence of global warming let alone AGW but the new religion of global warming is not about Science it is about $cience.
They want control of the means, methods, and goals of production.
sven10077 on December 15, 2008 at 10:06 PM
When you understand the chemical equation for photosynthesis you will understand that carbon dioxide is not a pollutant. It is plant food. Green growing things are natural CO2 ’scrubbers’.
Skandia Recluse on December 15, 2008 at 10:28 PM
yeah swear to g^d $cientists want to create artificial trees….
http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2008/06/carbon-capture.html
sven10077 on December 15, 2008 at 10:31 PM
Well, there is evidence the earth is warmer now then say 100 years ago (if we discount the current trend, of course). Which means we are finally close to recovering from the Little Ice Age that decimated the world population in the late middle ages.
Why this is a concern though is an open question, as is what role, if any, humanity has played compared to long term planetary processes and the input of the sun.
That AGW can answer none of these questions makes it absurd on its face. It is like studiously measuring world temperatures at the start of spring in the northern hemisphere, and pronouncing that bbqing is making the world too hot and we will surely all boil come December.
I am still shocked that the “hockey stick’s” disproval, and the almost certainty that it was a deliberate fraud is not more seriously considered by global warmists.
18-1 on December 15, 2008 at 10:36 PM
Sorry if this was linked somewhere else in the thread and I missed it: Al Gore’s 12 Days of Global Warming.
meltenn on December 15, 2008 at 10:45 PM
Benny you have balls? What a surprise…. but I wouldn’t date you if you were the last fertile male with mongoloid in the world!
Get a clue you little weirdo.
upinak on December 15, 2008 at 11:10 PM
LMFAO! Awesome!!! The drilling on the globe was priceless!
upinak on December 15, 2008 at 11:12 PM
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