Comments on: World markets take a beating on bailout failure; Update: White House “considering” TARP fund loan; Update: TARP funds coming http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/ The world’s first, full-service conservative Internet broadcast network Wed, 30 May 2012 01:23:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: World markets take a beating on bailout failure; Update: White House “considering” TARP fund loan; Update: TARP funds coming « Top Daily Digest Reading http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1752516 World markets take a beating on bailout failure; Update: White House “considering” TARP fund loan; Update: TARP funds coming « Top Daily Digest Reading Thu, 01 Jan 2009 16:25:27 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1752516 [...] Proceed here. [...] [...] Proceed here. [...]

]]> By: ElRonaldo http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1717116 ElRonaldo Sun, 14 Dec 2008 06:21:46 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1717116 As noted elsewhere here, it looks like the LA Times <a href="http://patterico.com/2008/12/13/la-times-falsely-tells-readers-that-democrats-didnt-have-the-10-republican-votes-necessary-to-pass-the-auto-industry-bailout/" rel="nofollow">felt like it had to lie</a> about the vote.   They said that the vote needed 10 republicans without mentioning the fact, that exactly 10 republicans did indeed vote for the measure. It failed by 7 votes. If the dems had had control of their defections and absences, the measure would have passed. A total of 8 dems either defected or did not vote.   A better headline would have been <strong>'Lazy, Inept Dems Lose Bailout Vote'</strong> As noted elsewhere here, it looks like the LA Times felt like it had to lie about the vote.
 
They said that the vote needed 10 republicans without mentioning the fact, that exactly 10 republicans did indeed vote for the measure. It failed by 7 votes. If the dems had had control of their defections and absences, the measure would have passed. A total of 8 dems either defected or did not vote.
 
A better headline would have been ‘Lazy, Inept Dems Lose Bailout Vote’

]]> By: shaken http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1716541 shaken Sat, 13 Dec 2008 18:42:40 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1716541 We both provide loan guarantees <i>and</i> force Chapter 11 restructuring. A bankruptcy trustee can use the guaranteed funds to ensure that suppliers are not infected by the cash flow contagion, and thereby reduce ripple. Chapter 11 allows the automakers to stare down the UAW/CAW. At the end, the big 3 emerge efficient, or terminal. In either case, the landing is softened, and the contagion more or less contained. It's not Chapter 11 or loan guarantees: it's both. We both provide loan guarantees and force Chapter 11 restructuring. A bankruptcy trustee can use the guaranteed funds to ensure that suppliers are not infected by the cash flow contagion, and thereby reduce ripple. Chapter 11 allows the automakers to stare down the UAW/CAW. At the end, the big 3 emerge efficient, or terminal.

In either case, the landing is softened, and the contagion more or less contained.

It’s not Chapter 11 or loan guarantees: it’s both.

]]> By: Ortzinator http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1716539 Ortzinator Sat, 13 Dec 2008 18:40:54 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1716539 Um... Henry Paulson = Wesley Mouch? Um… Henry Paulson = Wesley Mouch?

]]> By: Grand Theft Auto Bailout: Weekend Edition « JoHNBRoDiGaNDoTCoM http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1716454 Grand Theft Auto Bailout: Weekend Edition « JoHNBRoDiGaNDoTCoM Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:36:29 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1716454 [...] Journal, all eyes turn to the Bush Administration who signaled that they may tap into the existing TARP funds (i.e. the first bailout that caused all this). The reason the UAW refused to deal with Bob Corker [...] [...] Journal, all eyes turn to the Bush Administration who signaled that they may tap into the existing TARP funds (i.e. the first bailout that caused all this). The reason the UAW refused to deal with Bob Corker [...]

]]> By: BL@KBIRD http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1716450 BL@KBIRD Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:34:58 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1716450 This is being handled with the same adroitness as the War on WTF. This is being handled with the same adroitness as the War on WTF.

]]> By: kanda http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1716423 kanda Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:20:04 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1716423 <blockquote>Mr Purple on December 13, 2008 at 5:14 AM</blockquote> Common sense is what you have sir. Being a realist is never popular when things are going wrong but it is a good position to have none the less. Keep plugging away and you'll eventually find you are correct.

Mr Purple on December 13, 2008 at 5:14 AM

Common sense is what you have sir. Being a realist is never popular when things are going wrong but it is a good position to have none the less. Keep plugging away and you’ll eventually find you are correct.

]]> By: Mr Purple http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1716099 Mr Purple Sat, 13 Dec 2008 10:14:08 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1716099 I guess I'm in the minority. We are going to have to do something. I'm not convinced that rooting for bankruptcy is exactly the best road to travel. I like this mini bailout idea. The companies won't go bankrupt under Bush and the Dems will have to deal with the mess they have created. Mortgage crisis induced economic peril, and unions that cripple competitiveness and amplify risks in slow times. These are Democrat problems. They have 2 years to solve them and the clock started a month ago. I think the Republicans in the Senate missed a chance here to get some concessions from the union. I'm certainly not a big fan of unions, or government involvement in business - but should the government really sit by during an economic crisis and do nothing at all in every instance? When would you intervene? I guess I’m in the minority. We are going to have to do something. I’m not convinced that rooting for bankruptcy is exactly the best road to travel.

I like this mini bailout idea. The companies won’t go bankrupt under Bush and the Dems will have to deal with the mess they have created.

Mortgage crisis induced economic peril, and unions that cripple competitiveness and amplify risks in slow times.

These are Democrat problems. They have 2 years to solve them and the clock started a month ago.

I think the Republicans in the Senate missed a chance here to get some concessions from the union.

I’m certainly not a big fan of unions, or government involvement in business – but should the government really sit by during an economic crisis and do nothing at all in every instance? When would you intervene?

]]> By: DaMav http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1716027 DaMav Sat, 13 Dec 2008 07:11:13 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1716027 This is some of the most tortured logic yet. The markets started out with a modest downturn Friday morning which the media attributed to the bailout. We were promised an Armageddon of sorts, nothing remotely resembling that emerged. In fact the Dow regained positive territory which the media now attributed to the "possibility" that there would be an alternate bailout. At market close the markets were modestly in the green. In spite of all the talk of panic and drama there was very little. And its not clear that much of it was a reaction to the bailout issue at all. Don't forget that the other news hitting investors was a 50 billion dollar scam that impacted investment funds. Hard not to conclude that some folks are selling tickets for a wolf show that isn't coming to town. The fact that Bush/Cheney and Obama/Reid are aligned on this one is truly disgusting. This is some of the most tortured logic yet. The markets started out with a modest downturn Friday morning which the media attributed to the bailout. We were promised an Armageddon of sorts, nothing remotely resembling that emerged. In fact the Dow regained positive territory which the media now attributed to the “possibility” that there would be an alternate bailout. At market close the markets were modestly in the green.

In spite of all the talk of panic and drama there was very little. And its not clear that much of it was a reaction to the bailout issue at all. Don’t forget that the other news hitting investors was a 50 billion dollar scam that impacted investment funds.

Hard not to conclude that some folks are selling tickets for a wolf show that isn’t coming to town. The fact that Bush/Cheney and Obama/Reid are aligned on this one is truly disgusting.

]]> By: Dorvillian http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1715823 Dorvillian Sat, 13 Dec 2008 04:44:22 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1715823 I've got a dinner party planned for tomorrow night, but anytime after that I'm available for rioting in the streets. Anyone else free for violent protests either this Sunday, or possibly next weekend? Tiki torches are not that intimidating on their own, but if we all bring one (don't forget to bring oil and a lighter) we might make a pretty strong statement. <strong>I'm in the Atlanta area.</strong> I’ve got a dinner party planned for tomorrow night, but anytime after that I’m available for rioting in the streets.

Anyone else free for violent protests either this Sunday, or possibly next weekend?

Tiki torches are not that intimidating on their own, but if we all bring one (don’t forget to bring oil and a lighter) we might make a pretty strong statement.

I’m in the Atlanta area.

]]> By: Texas Gal http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1715804 Texas Gal Sat, 13 Dec 2008 04:33:47 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1715804 <blockquote>I own two Fords. If they refuse Federal money, I’ll buy another one. Saltysam on December 12, 2008 at 9:48 PM</blockquote> Me too. I love my Ford.

I own two Fords.

If they refuse Federal money, I’ll buy another one.

Saltysam on December 12, 2008 at 9:48 PM

Me too.

I love my Ford.

]]> By: joey24007 http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1715758 joey24007 Sat, 13 Dec 2008 04:13:33 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1715758 TARP requirement : Granholm must go TARP requirement : Granholm must go

]]> By: Saltysam http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1715570 Saltysam Sat, 13 Dec 2008 02:48:02 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1715570 <blockquote> Ford finally got it right, and said they would not take Federal money this round. Maybe I am grasping at straws, but it’s something. mw on December 12, 2008 at 9:45 PM</blockquote> I own two Fords. If they refuse Federal money, I'll buy another one.

Ford finally got it right, and said they would not take Federal money this round. Maybe I am grasping at straws, but it’s something.

mw on December 12, 2008 at 9:45 PM

I own two Fords.

If they refuse Federal money, I’ll buy another one.

]]> By: Saltysam http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1715565 Saltysam Sat, 13 Dec 2008 02:45:42 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1715565 <blockquote>When I refer to them as “lazy”, I’m letting them off extremely lightly. LimeyGeek on December 12, 2008 at 3:34 PM</blockquote> They're not lazy. They're busy. I'm not making excuses though. A large percentage of the population, though busy, are spoiled brats. They've no understanding of their responsibility, and have come to expect everything to run of its own accord. Personally, I believe that we've finally come to the end of the peace dividend from WWII, and they've no idea that is why they've been spoiled. Hell, they've no idea they are spoiled.

When I refer to them as “lazy”, I’m letting them off extremely lightly.

LimeyGeek on December 12, 2008 at 3:34 PM

They’re not lazy. They’re busy.

I’m not making excuses though.

A large percentage of the population, though busy, are spoiled brats. They’ve no understanding of their responsibility, and have come to expect everything to run of its own accord.

Personally, I believe that we’ve finally come to the end of the peace dividend from WWII, and they’ve no idea that is why they’ve been spoiled.

Hell, they’ve no idea they are spoiled.

]]> By: mw http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1715562 mw Sat, 13 Dec 2008 02:45:19 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1715562 In my fantasy world, the 60%+ of Americans who oppose these bailouts start voting with their wallet by shunning companies suckling at the Federal teat, and supporting companies that resist the temptation, even if their competitors do not. In this case, it would mean <a href="http://westanddivided.blogspot.com/2008/12/if-they-take-bailout-boycott-gm-and.html" rel="nofollow">buying Ford, boycotting GM & Chrysler</a>. There is far greater manufacturing capacity than there are customers. Why wouldn't rational customers preferentially buy from a company that shows the minimum management competence of understanding their marketplace and operating without bailouts? If more consumers make this choice, it would keep the Ford lines running, and shut more GM lines down. Don't get me wrong. Ford CEO Alan Mulally did not cover himself or his company in any more glory than the rest of the bozos in either of his two appearances before Congress. But this week, <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28159257/" rel="nofollow">Ford finally got it right</a>, and said they would not take Federal money this round. Maybe I am grasping at straws, but it's something. In my fantasy world, the 60%+ of Americans who oppose these bailouts start voting with their wallet by shunning companies suckling at the Federal teat, and supporting companies that resist the temptation, even if their competitors do not. In this case, it would mean buying Ford, boycotting GM & Chrysler. There is far greater manufacturing capacity than there are customers. Why wouldn’t rational customers preferentially buy from a company that shows the minimum management competence of understanding their marketplace and operating without bailouts? If more consumers make this choice, it would keep the Ford lines running, and shut more GM lines down.

Don’t get me wrong. Ford CEO Alan Mulally did not cover himself or his company in any more glory than the rest of the bozos in either of his two appearances before Congress. But this week, Ford finally got it right, and said they would not take Federal money this round. Maybe I am grasping at straws, but it’s something.

]]> By: Saltysam http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1715510 Saltysam Sat, 13 Dec 2008 02:16:47 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1715510 If there was no frickin' expectation in the world markets for taxpayer subsidies to failing private enterprise and failing UNIONS, there wouldn't be so much as a mosquito fart in the world markets. What the hell have we come to? If there was no frickin’ expectation in the world markets for taxpayer subsidies to failing private enterprise and failing UNIONS, there wouldn’t be so much as a mosquito fart in the world markets.

What the hell have we come to?

]]> By: sethstorm http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1715392 sethstorm Sat, 13 Dec 2008 01:32:31 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1715392 <blockquote> nolapol on December 12, 2008 at 7:11 PM </blockquote> You fail to recognize that there are people who would buy those cars. Plenty of them who look to see that they make affordable performance.

nolapol on December 12, 2008 at 7:11 PM

You fail to recognize that there are people who would buy those cars. Plenty of them who look to see that they make affordable performance.

]]> By: raybojabo http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1715252 raybojabo Sat, 13 Dec 2008 00:41:34 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1715252 Tell these clowns what I tell my brother-in-law. WHAT DO I LOOK LIKE? A BANK?<strong></strong> Tell these clowns what I tell my brother-in-law. WHAT DO I LOOK LIKE? A BANK?

]]> By: nolapol http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1715171 nolapol Sat, 13 Dec 2008 00:11:33 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1715171 <blockquote>sethstorm on December 12, 2008 at 4:33 PM</blockquote> Nationalized help (not endorsed) may be one thing but Detroit is still does not make a desirable product nor are they competitive.

sethstorm on December 12, 2008 at 4:33 PM

Nationalized help (not endorsed) may be one thing but Detroit is still does not make a desirable product nor are they competitive.

]]> By: sethstorm http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1714595 sethstorm Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:33:50 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1714595 <blockquote> LimeyGeek on December 12, 2008 at 2:11 PM Buddahpundit on December 12, 2008 at 2:08 PM </blockquote> Unfortunately you'll find out that Japan has given some national support to their car companies. Korea has done it in the past with their chaebols. India has done it as well with theirs before the end of the License Raj. Germany makes muscle, but deep pockets and unionization are the rule. That leaves China, where the best you get from them is a poor copy of a car made by an auto parts manufacturer with a large government interest. I'll be glad to help take up the slack. I've always wanted to get new, top-shelf Detroit muscle for fire-sale prices. Thank you for your efforts.

LimeyGeek on December 12, 2008 at 2:11 PM
Buddahpundit on December 12, 2008 at 2:08 PM

Unfortunately you’ll find out that Japan has given some national support to their car companies. Korea has done it in the past with their chaebols. India has done it as well with theirs before the end of the License Raj. Germany makes muscle, but deep pockets and unionization are the rule. That leaves China, where the best you get from them is a poor copy of a car made by an auto parts manufacturer with a large government interest.

I’ll be glad to help take up the slack. I’ve always wanted to get new, top-shelf Detroit muscle for fire-sale prices. Thank you for your efforts.

]]> By: The Auto Bailout -- Thwarting the Will of the People | Axis of Right http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1714560 The Auto Bailout -- Thwarting the Will of the People | Axis of Right Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:28:17 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1714560 [...] in a cloture vote (which requires 60 votes to succeed) due to lack of union concessions.  It is now being reported that the Bush Administration, through the Treasury Department, is going to ignore the will of the [...] [...] in a cloture vote (which requires 60 votes to succeed) due to lack of union concessions.  It is now being reported that the Bush Administration, through the Treasury Department, is going to ignore the will of the [...]

]]> By: GarandFan http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1714466 GarandFan Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:12:36 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1714466 US Taxpayer screwed again. US Taxpayer screwed again.

]]> By: Rae http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1714402 Rae Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:57:49 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1714402 Please call your reps and ask them to support <a href="http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:h7309:" rel="nofollow">this legislation</a>. For one thing, it repeals TARP. Please call your reps and ask them to support this legislation. For one thing, it repeals TARP.

]]> By: Ace of Spades HQ http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1714362 Ace of Spades HQ Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:46:20 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1714362 <strong>Source: TARP Bailout Not a Done Deal; May Even Include the Concessions Corker Demanded for the Senate Bailout...</strong> Here's hoping Larry Kudlow's source is right: But my sources tell me that the TARP deal is not done — not by a long shot. At a minimum, it’s going to take the Treasury several days to walk through the...... Source: TARP Bailout Not a Done Deal; May Even Include the Concessions Corker Demanded for the Senate Bailout…

Here’s hoping Larry Kudlow’s source is right: But my sources tell me that the TARP deal is not done — not by a long shot. At a minimum, it’s going to take the Treasury several days to walk through the……

]]> By: The Automotive Bailouts: The Other Side of the Story | Political Byline http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/world-markets-take-a-beating-on-bailout-failure/comment-page-3/#comment-1714326 The Automotive Bailouts: The Other Side of the Story | Political Byline Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:38:30 +0000 http://hotair.com/?p=37325#comment-1714326 [...] have been sitting here, trying to keep out of this. But I have sat and looked at the Republican and Neo-Conservative Spin on this Story and I’m sick of [...] [...] have been sitting here, trying to keep out of this. But I have sat and looked at the Republican and Neo-Conservative Spin on this Story and I’m sick of [...]

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