Unions start to get the message
posted at 9:58 am on December 12, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
Maybe the UAW should take note of the SEIU’s belated recognition of the economic situation in California. After blowing up a potential compromise on the auto bailout last night by refusing to compromise on concessions, the union all but guaranteed that one or more of the Big Three will declare bankruptcy and potentially void their labor agreements. SEIU California has begun to show more flexibility:
Has California’s growing budget mess pushed public employee unions into retreat?
Take Service Employees International Union Local 1000, which represents 95,000 state workers in a wide variety of jobs. Last week local President Yvonne Walker told The State Worker, “There are going to have to be cuts. We’re going to have to raise taxes” to address the state’s cash crunch.
This was the same union leader who last month, after Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger proposed furloughs and other measures to trim the budget deficit, said, “We’ll fight back with everything that we have.”
Between Walker’s two quotes, the governor threatened to detonate the labor equivalent of a nuclear bomb: layoffs. It’s one thing a California governor can unleash without negotiating with unions or legislators.
Last night, Bob Corker (R-TN) had $15 billion lined up for the UAW’s employers if only the union would agree to renegotiate their contracts to get pay equity with other autoworkers in the country by a date certain. The UAW refused to make that commitment, which any lender or creditor would consider a key point for resolution before restructuring or giving additional loans. The lack of those three words, “by date certain”, showed that the UAW either didn’t understand the stake they had in these negotiations or figured that no one would defy them in the end.
The Big Three won’t compete effectively until they lower their labor costs and produce better management. As Tom Coburn told the Senate, GM and Toyota sold roughly the same number of vehicles over the last year, but Toyota turned a $1.7 billion profit while GM lost around $9 billion. That doesn’t happen by accident. Until these automakers and their unions resolve the structural problems that creates this kind of unprofitability, they are a terrible credit risk and a lousy investment — and neither management nor labor shows much willingness to change for the taxpayer subsidies they now demand.
What happens now to the UAW? GM at least will have to file for Chapter 11 quickly for protection from its creditors, and that means that they can start from scratch on a labor agreement. Ford will probably follow suit, and Chrysler may have to entertain thoughts of a lockout to get enough concessions to remain competitive. The UAW will have almost no choice but to make significant concessions or wind up losing the jobs of two million members in the process. The UAW may well go out of business otherwise — which was the conclusion the California SEIU seems to have finally reached a little sooner in the process than their UAW brothers.









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The thirty-year gravy train has ended………
Rovin on December 12, 2008 at 10:01 AM
Maybe they are getting it.
No jobs = NO UNION DUES = No UAW rep jobs
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on December 12, 2008 at 10:02 AM
The Pig 3 came to the government for a bailout specifically so that they could avoid any meaningful restructuring. It’s too much work, and they figured that the UAW owns enough of Congress that the job would be an easy one.
Oops.
CantCureStupid on December 12, 2008 at 10:03 AM
UAW waking up and smelling the coffee???
Nah what is more likely is that we will subsidize 78 buck an hour sloth ’til the cows come home….
the wanna-be red brigades better wake up and smell the soykaf when the “proles” rise up they will be viewed as robin’s egg blue a bad combo of white and blue collar not “comrades like us”….
sven10077 on December 12, 2008 at 10:03 AM
The UAW has a press conf. right now on CNBC
lodge on December 12, 2008 at 10:04 AM
F Gettlefinger
deedtrader on December 12, 2008 at 10:04 AM
Please God let the Republicans stand strong…they are winning big battles right now. Ignore and defeat the clown in the Whitehouse who right this very moment is trying to come up with a way to save the corruption in the Big 3.
PierreLegrand on December 12, 2008 at 10:04 AM
We’re going to have to raise taxes
The Left’s answer to every problem.
Tony737 on December 12, 2008 at 10:05 AM
This country should really get the message and outlaw every goddamned one of them.
BigWyo on December 12, 2008 at 10:06 AM
Finally, we are getting somewhere…the unions will realize that they are not an island.
All the Auto wants is parity, but the unions will push this to the end, and then concede…
Chap 11 is where this should go, good for the Republicans.
right2bright on December 12, 2008 at 10:06 AM
Unions once served an honorable purpose, now they are so filled with corruption, fraud, and hatred, unions have become a huge liability on the American way of life.
Labor laws now are in place throughout the country, and we can thank (in part) the efforts of past union members for this effort that has been good for the worker. Unions now serve no purpose other than to act as a huge cash cow for Democrats, thus the need to breed hatred for anything “non-union” at every meeting held.
I talk from my own experience.
Keemo on December 12, 2008 at 10:08 AM
No American auito industry = no UAW = success. simple equation, but true.
rplat on December 12, 2008 at 10:08 AM
dubya’s TARP executive order will kick the can down the road till the next session.
a capella on December 12, 2008 at 10:09 AM
I might add this:
The hatred by Democrats & union members for Wal-mart is well documented. Some cities have refused to allow a Wal-mart to be built within city limits. To this day, a viable argument against Wal-mart has yet to surface, just simple raw hatred brewed in union meeting and spread by the media.
Keemo on December 12, 2008 at 10:11 AM
Let’s do a little auto-industry thought experiment: Let’s say the “big 3″ tank completely and go out of business. Lots of money is lost. Maybe enough to even slightly dampen demand for automobiles. But there will still be demand. So who will fill it?
Well, maybe it will be those non-union factories in the South. And maybe the demand will be so much more than they can supply that the prices of cars spike, temporarily. Then they see that the way they can meet the demand is to buy the defunct factories of the former big 3, the purchase and reactivation of which the temporarily improved profit margins will allow. So then they’ll need to buy parts, employ workers, etc. But the deal won’t be the same: the workers will have to work for less, the parts suppliers will have to be efficient. The supply will come up when the reactivated factories come on line, so therefore automobile sticker prices will fall, but the manufacturers will still be profitable because their cost base is lower.
No doubt, some people will be temporarily displaced. No doubt it will be something of a shock to the economy. But what do we end up with? A more efficient auto industry, and ultimately cheaper cars, which means more money in the pockets of auto buyers, which means they can spend the money elsewhere.
That would imply that the bailout is actually harmful to the economy, and should be avoided. At least, this is how I was taught that business and the market economy works. How is this wrong?
mr.blacksheep on December 12, 2008 at 10:11 AM
It’s wormy PC-talk like that which keeps these criminal filth in power.
Unions were never noble. Never.
TMK on December 12, 2008 at 10:13 AM
Buy Walmart and buy McDonalds to support them as they fight the union thugs.
bill30097 on December 12, 2008 at 10:15 AM
Good, shut down the UAW.
t.ferg on December 12, 2008 at 10:15 AM
Gettelfricker is slamming everyone and their brother right now…he is a tool of the largest magnitude.
Tim Zank on December 12, 2008 at 10:17 AM
…which is why we do all of our grocery shopping & a lot of our other shopping at Wal-Mart.
jgapinoy on December 12, 2008 at 10:17 AM
What’s eating the “big three” alive is the UAW’s retirement program which is virtually paying thousands the same monthy check that today’s workers are recieving. It was great in the SUV boom before fuel prices went through the roof. Liquid cash was no problem.
A UAW Rep (Gettlefinger)is talking on a financial channel right now mostly about wages and benifits. He’s blaming the “minority” and the Republican Party for suggesting the UAW use Toyota as a benchmark for wage considerations. Senator Corker is getting the brunt of his discust. Gettlefinger seems to be drawing a line in the sand to preserve the wage and benifit structure of the UAW. He’s framing this as an assult on organized labor.
Rovin on December 12, 2008 at 10:18 AM
I am gonna repost this comment from the other thread. For those of you who’ve already seen it- please forgive the repetition.
UAW- the way it was, THE WAY IT IS…
the UAW is absolutely responsible for the ruination of the American auto companies. I worked four summers in the late 1970’s and early 1980’s for Buick as a college student Cooperative student.
I began as a wide-eyed lib and left 4 years later as a stone cold anti-union conservative.
At 22, I knew the unions would kill GM and ruin my hometown (Flint MI) even though at the time GM was ridin’ high.
EVERY UAW member/worker had a parts/job quota for his day. Most all finished within 45min to 1 hr after clocking in. At that time they shut down the machine and went to the bar. After no more than 2 hours the machine floor would go silent and the lines would stop. THIS IS TRUE OF ALL UAW PLANTS- still even to this day. I have MANY friends and family who are shoprats still and I know I can always find them at the bar nearest the plant.
UAW workers commited crimes against GM every day- arson, sabotage of bldgs., machines, and CARS. Violent crimes took place on the machine floor all the time beatings, rapes, etc. The UAW threatens WALKOUTS if management did ANYTHING to the UAW worker responsible.
The “rats” took delight in screwin’ management at every turn. Union rules FORBID white collar folks from plugging in any appliance/device, from moving a chair from one desk to another, from changing ANY furniture at all. It is often the job of students to go looking through the local bar for an electrician to come back to the shop to plug something in. Usually the white-collar person is told to go f— off.
IF ANY WHITE COLLAR PERSON DID ANYTHING THE UAW DIDN’T LIKE– WALKOUT.
I had relatives who drew FULL PAY AND BENEFITS for 30 years and were on “Sick Leave” the ENTIRE TIME. Many, many doctors could be bought off easily and cheaply.
Folks in Michigan know to NEVER BUY A UAW made car that was made on Friday or Monday. “Rats” are ’startin’ the weekend early’ or in a real bad mood- and sabotage the cars on purpose.
I worked in the engine plant, foundry, assembly, engineering and the Buick Main Office. It was the same everywhere- and it still is.
ExTex on December 12, 2008 at 10:18 AM
Will Gettlefinger work for $1 a year? He is a typical union thug! He needs to know the tail dont wag the dog!
Chapter 11 is the only thing that will SAVE the big 3
grapeknutz on December 12, 2008 at 10:19 AM
I really think the Big 3 went to DC to 1) see what they could get and 2) if they got nothing, it would show the UAW they were acting in good faith. “Acting in good faith” is a very important phrase in contract negotiations.
Oink on December 12, 2008 at 10:20 AM
It isn’t. If my competitor prices himself out of the market, my sales increase. Assuming demand stays constant.
redshirt on December 12, 2008 at 10:21 AM
My whole family- both sets of grandparents, my dad, my aunts and uncles, almost all of my 52 first cousins worked at Buick City, Fischer Body, AC or Chevy as Executives(4) or skilled labor(8 or so) or ‘rats’( the rest).
I grew up with Generous Mother. I loved and relied on her- but the pact she has with the devil UAW killed her and my hometown.
ExTex on December 12, 2008 at 10:21 AM
Gettlefinger: “Bankruptcy is not an option—we would go into LIQUIDATION, not bankruptcy”
Bullcrap!
Rovin on December 12, 2008 at 10:21 AM
I drive by a huge Ford factory everyday on my way to work that has been shut down for over a year and is now being torn down. Only a few blocks away is the UAW building still standing tall, I guess they are still getting their union dues even though they put everybody at that plant out of work. Unions are for Unions.
Maxx on December 12, 2008 at 10:22 AM
Don’t kid yourself about the UAW, President Obama will find the cash to keep them afloat.
doufree on December 12, 2008 at 10:23 AM
Question, will the UAW bosses still have jobs when all their members are in the unemployment line?
GarandFan on December 12, 2008 at 10:23 AM
Naw…the UAW has not gotten the message, at least that is my read from the Gettelfinger (SP???) press conference here. He is blaming the eeeeeeeevil Republicans in the Senate for wanting the poor workers to carry this bailout on their backs and is bearing no responsibility for blowing up the deal. Listening to this guy is pi**ing me off. He is still not offering concessions, he is just calling on the White House to give em money….and in response to a question if he would offer terms to the White House, he basically just said no. F-in tool. It is his way or the highway…nope, Mr. Goldfinger here has not gotten the message.
HawaiiLwyr on December 12, 2008 at 10:23 AM
Translation: we were the cancer you right-wingers have said all along….
if the UAW really thought they were as smart as they pretend they’d welcome liquidation so they could buy the companies and “run them right”….don’t hold your breath.
sven10077 on December 12, 2008 at 10:23 AM
I’ve got an idea, when the Big 3 execs show up asking for money, the Congress looks at them and goes, “Whaaa? What the hell are you talking about, we aren’t giving you any money…go claim bankruptcy if you’re not turning a profit, that’s what every other company in the US does when they can’t sell their products”. Then, the companies can say in return, “those regulations you have been forcing down our throats, yeah, you can stick those up your asses, later biotches!”.
That would be great.
Geministorm on December 12, 2008 at 10:23 AM
Fokkin arrogant Beggars…. F the UAW… Referencing anonymous emails… blaming republicans for their situation.
Can’t stand that Gettlefinger
deedtrader on December 12, 2008 at 10:24 AM
Sorry, this guy has gotten my blood pressure up and I believe my rant above is almost uninteligible.
HawaiiLwyr on December 12, 2008 at 10:25 AM
Take out all the problems caused by unions, and the US automakers would still have been crushed by the Japanese. This total fixation on the unions as the root of all evil is kind of absurd. It’s not that simple.
bayam on December 12, 2008 at 10:26 AM
Laugh? I nearly shat.
LimeyGeek on December 12, 2008 at 10:26 AM
If TARP money is used to keep them afloat long enough to seat the new Congress, the UAW won. Are you sure they were dumb?
JiangxiDad on December 12, 2008 at 10:28 AM
They are looting our treasury, you guys.
This isn’t the beginning, it’s the endgame for the marxists.
Who will take the last stand in Congress? That man will be my hero.
jeff_from_mpls on December 12, 2008 at 10:29 AM
I am watching the UAW twat give his press conference and all I can say is wow……this guy is a scumbag of Biblical proportions and he is sticking his finger in the eye of the party that brought Bush to the dance….if Bush bails out that scumbag and his thugs, Bush should resign tomorrow.
David in ATL on December 12, 2008 at 10:29 AM
Hank Rearden
JiangxiDad on December 12, 2008 at 10:31 AM
May be picking nits here, but wouldn’t Chrysler be the more likely chapter 11 candidate than Ford? Ford said they didn’t need this installment of the bailout.
BadDogMN on December 12, 2008 at 10:31 AM
Go ahead and blame the Republicans, most people dont work for unions, and will see exactly what this is. Funny its kind of ironic, that these union idiots are asking for taxpayers money, which we could assume comes from alot of non union workers. Yet they tell us how wonderful unions are. Well how come you need a bailout, from non union tax payers. Go F-OFF
MDWNJ on December 12, 2008 at 10:32 AM
It would be sweet if we could stick a fork in the UAW once and for all.
jonezee on December 12, 2008 at 10:33 AM
Not an expert, but isn’t Chap. 11 for the reorganization of businesses that have a chance of surviving? From what I read, Chrysler has no chance, and is probably better off being liquidated for its assets (Chapter 7?)
JiangxiDad on December 12, 2008 at 10:34 AM
If President Bush does an end run around the Senate and authorizes TARP funds for the Big 3 without securing the ‘certain’ date from the UAW….he’ll be dead to me.
And I still have Bush / Cheney campaign signs up on the wall of my office.
DrW on December 12, 2008 at 10:34 AM
Say what you will about the UAW, it can’t be bad enough, but they know how to play Texas hold-em.
They torpedoed the deal last night because they know a better one is coming from Bush. Bush has never been able to resist anything that domestically is bigger government or more spending.
GM and the union will be getting their money. Furthermore, based on the old rule of thumb the ultimate total will be over 100 billion dollars if we go into a severe recession. That figure is arrived at by taking the original request-34 billion-and multiplying it by 3. It works on virtually every proposal of any kind.
The over/under is do they get the money by Sunday.
patrick neid on December 12, 2008 at 10:34 AM
looks like you’re wrong, Ed. The UAW is laying down the law
lodge on December 12, 2008 at 10:35 AM
Not all, but most. I was in charge of cost-cutting in a number of groups both at the OEM level and at the supplier level. Whenever our group had an idea to save a couple bucks per vehicle, and part of that was making the line more efficient, the union would shoot it down no questions asked. They couldnt get rid of a worker, no matter what the savings. Management has a lot to to as well, but its like a 80-20 split toward the union. Get rid of the unions, become competitive. Restructure management, take over market share.
ConservativeLawStudent on December 12, 2008 at 10:35 AM
+1
thomasaur on December 12, 2008 at 10:36 AM
“We have to save our phoney baloney jobs.”
Harpoon on December 12, 2008 at 10:36 AM
Can the SEIU be declaired ‘brankrupt’ and be done with them?
Workers want better representatives then should learn a lesson from this.
Sir Napsalot on December 12, 2008 at 10:37 AM
I wonder if President Bush was worth it after all? I’m starting to wonder if the damage he’s doing now outweighs the benefit he gave us by fighting terrorism aggressively.
Why? Because we still have the military capacity to eliminate every square inch of islam, and we have the power and will to rebuild any city they are foolish enough to attack. But we might not be able to rebuild American culture after Bush’s incomprehensible, unconditional surrender to our internal enemies.
jeff_from_mpls on December 12, 2008 at 10:38 AM
If that happens, they can kiss my car payments goodbye.
LimeyGeek on December 12, 2008 at 10:38 AM
I worked in a Buick shop in south Chicago (real close to Gary) that was union. While the quotas weren’t met in the time that is mentioned in the above post, they were sufficiently easy to achieve that it only took 5-6 hours of “hard” work, however we also got paid by the part over the quota, which is like getting paid OT. So, if you did 8 hrs of work, you got paid like you had worked 10-12 hours. The union was a PitA about things that a union member had to do (management wasn’t allowed to), but no one got their panties in a bunch about it. And, we all did “retire” to the local bar shortly thereafter.
However, that post sounds very over-the-top. My dad was a GM employee for 35 years and it wasn’t that way at his plant either…beatings and rapes?!? I don’t think so, no company would have allowed that, at least not the places I worked. If the company didn’t stop it, the other workers would have. No one wanted to have a walkout either, it would have been a big deal for them to have a strike or walkout, and not for something minor either. If an individual union member/employee was in trouble for anything with the company, the union provided a liason and a lawyer if necessary, to work with the company and come to an arrangement, they didn’t just threaten walkouts. Companies don’t respond to blackmail like that, a walkout is a last straw type of response, not the first thing out of the union reps mouth whenever there is a problem. Perhaps this poster didn’t quite know what he was talking about?
Geministorm on December 12, 2008 at 10:41 AM
That is a very good question. I had never asked myself that before. In my mind, his response to 9/11 always compensated for anything else he did. But it’s reasonable to wonder what might have happened if it had been someone else in charge (Kerry?). Perhaps it the answer to your question that determines his legacy.
JiangxiDad on December 12, 2008 at 10:41 AM
Take out all the problems caused by unions, and the US automakers would still have been crushed by the Japanese. This total fixation on the unions as the root of all evil is kind of absurd. It’s not that simple.
bayam on December 12, 2008 at 10:26 AM
I agree that the UAW is not the only problem the US auto industry is facing. Poor leadership, many awful designs, poor engineering, bloated dealer bodies, stagnant quality, etc ad nauseum.
But their root problem is labor costs and work rules. That’s where fixing the problem must start. They simply must get their labor costs in line with non-unin manufacturers, and they simply must integrate their suppliers onto the factory floor or they will simply cease to exist.
DrW on December 12, 2008 at 10:42 AM
I was hoping people would wake up and realize that this is a UAW bailout, not a GM bailout. GM would be fine had it not been raped by the mobsters of the UAW to the point that it simply could not be competitive with companies unburdened by ridiculous union contracts.
My grandpa was a union man, president of the BT&T local in Chicago in 1904. I am immensely proud of that because, as anyone who has read Upton Sinclair’s The Jungle will remember, there was a need for unions then to combat criminally unethical behavior on the part of employers who treated the industrial workers of the age worse than slaves – because slaves were at least customarily cared for when they had outlived their usefillness, as a simple matter of decency. Industrial workers were cast aside and blackballed.
There was a need for unions back then, and it took courage to be a union man. But since 1904 there has been enormous federal involvement to protect workers from exploitation by business. The need for unions is long gone. The only reason the unions still exist is to explolit the same workers they pretend to represent.
The union man just a mob shakedown artist between you and your paycheck, and the unions themselves are an enormous source of political power for organized crime – but don’t believe me, ask Blago. He’ll be talking soon, if he doesn’t “get depressed” and “commit suicide,” as so often happens in this sort of situation.
BTW, every bit of this applies to professional “black leaders” who still hang on like leeches after the real work of gaining equality for blacks has been accomplished.
What a country!
Venusian Visitor on December 12, 2008 at 10:42 AM
Your car payment is one of the assets.
JiangxiDad on December 12, 2008 at 10:43 AM
You forgot to add, “get the government out private business and mandating ‘green’ technologies”.
Geministorm on December 12, 2008 at 10:43 AM
Like deToqueville, sometimes it takes a visitor from afar to see things as they really are. Thank you, seriously, for that comment. Venusians seem to be a frank and honest
peoplethingy.JiangxiDad on December 12, 2008 at 10:45 AM
EVERY UAW member/worker had a parts/job quota for his day. Most all finished within 45min to 1 hr after clocking in. At that time they shut down the machine and went to the bar. – ExTex
I had a buddy in the A.F. who used to work for Buick too. He left because of exactly what you’re describing here.
Tony737 on December 12, 2008 at 10:45 AM
Who didn’t know that the UAW contracts would lead to businesses that were not sustainable. And shouldn’t sustainability be part of the UAW contract negotiation?
Here is a video of what needs to be done and how to do it.
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/fords-most-advanced-assembly-plant-operates-in-rural-brazil/
You may note that the new advanced Ford assembly plant is in rural Brazil where they have willing workers and no UAW interference.
tarpon on December 12, 2008 at 10:45 AM
Chapter 11 is the dreaded medicine.
patrick neid on December 12, 2008 at 10:46 AM
And subject to negotiation. Just like my mortgage.
LimeyGeek on December 12, 2008 at 10:46 AM
Maybe President Bush thinks he is being compassionate by using TARP to bail out the violent unions.
This rips my heart out. It is not compassionate to condemn future generations to servitude. President Bush has given Congress cover for amassing a $1 trillion deficit. Deficit!
If Bush thinks this is for the children of the union thugs, if he thinks this will bring a feeling of warmth in the Christmas — er, “holiday” — season, he might be right (though I doubt even that, he should expect not a shred of gratitude from these people). This incomprehensible act on Bush’s part condemns future generations to the suffering of socialism. History books are filled with horror stories about it’s aftermath, and yet President Bush is ready to pull the trigger — hiding behind “the children.”
I’m sick to my stomach.
jeff_from_mpls on December 12, 2008 at 10:47 AM
Unions finally waking up and smelling the coffee…well maybe but it looks like it is still Star Bucks Coffee, not Dunkin Doughnuts or McDonald’s Coffee.
Dr Evil on December 12, 2008 at 10:49 AM
your entire comment has just won post of the week. well done.
DrW on December 12, 2008 at 10:50 AM
Yes, it is.
Count to 10 on December 12, 2008 at 10:50 AM
The only reason the unions still exist is to exploit the same workers they pretend to represent. – Visitor
Yup, and to protect the unproductive.
Tony737 on December 12, 2008 at 10:52 AM
Very nicely done.
But you understate the situation. The unions are getting their double dippity mocha choco fantasy latte served to them by actual working people dressed as waiters. And we have been instructed not to make eye contact, but to bow and declare, “your coffee sir, I trust it is as you like it.”
jeff_from_mpls on December 12, 2008 at 10:54 AM
I believe this is precisely what he thinks. I believe he also feels that if the banks can get money, why can’t the ordinary people. As usual, we won’t know what he thinks, because he won’t articulate it. I also think that Obama will blame the resulting increase in the unemployment rate on Bush, and Bush doesn’t think he was sent to Washington to do that. In other words, I think he has a modern liberal outlook on the issue.
JiangxiDad on December 12, 2008 at 10:56 AM
Also, could someone with analytic skills compute the average cost per vote for the democrat party, how much we working people are paying per person for these democrat votes?
E.g., size of
squandered treasury payoutbailout divided by number of UAW “workers”. Should be easy to do.jeff_from_mpls on December 12, 2008 at 10:58 AM
All headlines blame the Auto Bailout Collapse on the minority party. Will anyone put the blame on the UAW for refusing concessions to make US cars competitive? Moderate republicans in the senate were on board to help, but UAW was the proverbial scorpion hitching a ride on a swimming frog.
Mark30339 on December 12, 2008 at 11:01 AM
You may have some very good points but I still don’t see how the unions are responsible for the biggest problem- designing and developing the wrong cars.
I mean, if US automakers were to design and market the right kinds of vehicles, then consumers would be willing to pay a small premium instead of dealers having to offer massive discounts that wipe out profits. Yes, the union system leads to higher costs and some inefficiencies, but the real problems here are driven by management decisions.
Let’s take one problem that we all acknowledge- awful design. Think that’s because our cars are designed in the US while competing cars are designed in Japan? Not at all- the Japanese run auto design centers in southern California, while US companies design products in Detroit. Does it take a genius to realize that designers and artists in a land-locked, homogeneous, and bland place like Detroit would get buried alive by design teams in California. Does anyone believe that someone in Detroit could have designed the iPhone? Why do Americans continue to design cars in Detroit when other parts of the country have far greater artistic talent and diversity of ideas that inspire great design?
Again, I don’t see how unions are the root of all evil when management has done such a miserable job.
bayam on December 12, 2008 at 11:06 AM
When Stahl points out that Frank is then talking about welfare, he responds, “Yeah, I’m for welfare. You’re not? Are you for letting people starve?”
Can someone PLEASE tell me how a-holes like this keep getting elected?
BallisticBob on December 12, 2008 at 11:08 AM
This is probably correct. If GM and/or Chrysler go into bankruptcy, there is no way Toyota, Honda, and Ford can keep up with the demand, so car prices will go up temporarily, and they will make HUGE profits, and probably use them to expand the business. Which would be easier, build more car factories from scratch, or buy an existing GM plant and hire most of its previous workers who know how it works, and are desperate for jobs?
Meanwhile, what’s left of GM would be re-organized, and they would probably bring up their most profitable plants for themselves and sell the less profitable ones to other manufacturers, who would probably plow their profits into revamping them to make smaller, fuel-efficient cars rather than SUV’s, which have become unpopular since gasoline went over $3 / gallon.
But this is a scenario for an ideal world, where the failure of the bailout bill sticks. In the real world, in a month there will be 58 Democrat Senators and President Obama, and they will pass the bailout, and the UAW gets to milk (bilk) the taxpayers for another year, while nobody buys any of their $50K cars.
Steve Z on December 12, 2008 at 11:09 AM
Ain’t that the truth. Sandwiched around my Army days, I’ve had 4 warehouse type jobs. 2 were union, 2 weren’t.
The differences between the two were incredible. Both union warehouses/loading docks were dark, dank 80 year old buildings – filled with crappy, outdated equipment, angry managers, the most miserable SOBs on the planet, lazy, pathetic losers…
The non-union companies had updated facilities, new equipment, friendly management, employees who got along, better benefits, more overtime available, lower starting pay, but more room to move up if you worked hard.
I’ll never forget the first time I unloaded a truck in 4 hours at my Union job, when it should have taken me 6 or 7 hours. Those Union a-holes were fit to be tied. They hated me “college boy” – I was working summers as a spare (still had to join the damn Union after XX hours – $600.00, plus $25 a week and this was 20 years ago!)
I just kept working hard, I think my size actually saved me from physical harm, but boy, they sure tried to intimidate me.
Lazy pricks.
I’ll never forget the threatening letters and calls from the Teamsters when I stopped paying dues – because I was only temporary and wasn’t working. They made some sort of clerical error, but I still kept expecting to see Moose and Knuckles show up at my door.
reaganaut on December 12, 2008 at 11:12 AM
No WalMart’s allowed here in Chicago. Anyone surprised? You have no idea how all the unions have a stranglehold on us idiots who live here, right down to the type of plumbing we’re required to put in our homes to the way the garbage gets picked up.
This is the same city that banned foie gras because is was cruel to the geese.
Knucklehead on December 12, 2008 at 11:16 AM
The unions will still be in charge when GM is building the 2020 model Volga.
Why do you think the UAW and other unions invested a cool billion in electing Obama… In mob speak, it’s called insurance.
tarpon on December 12, 2008 at 11:21 AM
“Take Service Employees International Union Local 1000. Please.” -Henny Youngman
Akzed on December 12, 2008 at 11:23 AM
What? Not another ponzi scheme. Who gets arrested in this one?
nolapol on December 12, 2008 at 11:24 AM
Harumph!!
I love Blazing Saddles!
Liberty or Death on December 12, 2008 at 11:26 AM
You can bet that next election the unions will pour money into beating each one that voted against the bailout
KBird on December 12, 2008 at 11:31 AM
The automakers are still going to get their money/get nationalized. The paradigm has already shifted.
I’m still shocked that America has folded so quickly on capitalism. Perhaps it was a house of cards all along…
Asher on December 12, 2008 at 11:38 AM
Capitalism will exist after the US is dust….
I’m learning Chinese so I can talk to my landlord at some point.
sven10077 on December 12, 2008 at 11:40 AM
The union has a lot more say in design than you’d think. I have seen many an idea get struck down by the union because they weren’t sure their workers could put it together. They would prefer the exact same design model after model, with the exact same attachment scheme and the exact same amount of workers to put it together. They don’t sit around and wait for parts to show up, they are integral to the process from Day 1, and will fight and fight on every little thing that they just don’t like.
And IMHO, $3,000 on a $20,000 vehicle is not a “small premium.”
ConservativeLawStudent on December 12, 2008 at 11:45 AM
Which is why the big push will be made for card check. Once the UAW strips the last of the flesh from GM and Chrysler, they are heading south to begin the feast again on Toyota and Honda.
Vashta.Nerada on December 12, 2008 at 11:46 AM
Compare industry success:
– auto
– steel
– airline
vs
– software (oracle microsoft)
– web (google, yahoo, amazon)
– services (accenture, KPMG)
One group has been failing constantly for decades. The other has been succeeding.
One is unionized. One isn’t.
Coincidence?
angryed on December 12, 2008 at 12:08 PM
Ha ha!
Rush is leading the show with emphasizing this as UNION bailout, not AUTO bailout.
He’s on fire.
jeff_from_mpls on December 12, 2008 at 12:09 PM
jeff_from_mpls on December 12, 2008 at 10:47 AM
a capella on December 12, 2008 at 12:10 PM
Well, I screwed that up. Should be:
“We’re all God’s children”. Oh, wait a minute,..that was McCain and shamnesty, but it has a familiar beat.
a capella on December 12, 2008 at 12:10 PM
a capella on December 12, 2008 at 12:12 PM
Because you don’t want to see it, or you’re just clueless, or delusional. Much of what management does is dictated by the unions. Do you think it was a management decision to pay employees 50% more than the competition? No, it wasn’t. Do you think it was a management decision to pay employees who aren’t working nearly full salary for life? No,it wasn’t. Do you think it was a management decision to pay bloated pension plans to retirees? No, it wasn’t. Do you think it was a management decision to pay employees $100,000 a year to turn a couple of screws on an assembly line? No, it wasn’t.
By the way, did you miss the part where GM sold nearly as many cars as Toyota, but lost billions while Toyota made a profit? So much for your design theory being the issue.
It is the unions. You know it, I know it, and they know it. They just hope the rest of America doesn’t know it.
xblade on December 12, 2008 at 12:12 PM
Greed on the part of the unions and Malthesis on the part of management? Now they want a bailout? Better to have a “controlled” Chap11, like they did with the airlines….
DL13 on December 12, 2008 at 12:12 PM
UAW rapes GM, Ford and Chrysler and holds them hostage. GM, Ford and Chrysler suffer from the Stockholm Syndrome and join the UAW in trying to rape the American taxpayer. Taxpayers resist being raped and UAW blames the Republican Party for putting a stop, even if temporary, to UAW/Big 3 lust. Makes sense to me.
sdd on December 12, 2008 at 12:15 PM
Do you think that the people of Illinois know that the Dems have run a #6 on them?
thomasaur on December 12, 2008 at 12:18 PM
So the burden of cost cutting and efficiency is driven down to suppliers, which far outnumber and out-employ The UAW.
As a Tier 2 supplier, it is fairly well known that doing business with The Big 3 means kicking back 3-5% every year to keep the business, until said business is just worthless. Unfortunately many suppliers had all of their eggs in that basket and have (Or will) fail.
Interestingly, the Japanese Automakers are much more reasonable in terms of price and quality.
1) Prices are generally negotiated every 1-2 years, and a supplier can negotiate and win new business in the process. Quality is rewarded over price.
2) Isolated Quality issues are dealt with at assembly, which generally results in line accumulations which are charged back. The Big 3 deals with this by shutting down assembly lines @ $10k – $50k / Hr and hitting the supplier for a single .0001 PPM incident.
The supplier base has been funding this lack of management for decades.
scr00s on December 12, 2008 at 12:18 PM
For that matter that the bailout is a #6?
thomasaur on December 12, 2008 at 12:21 PM
Average UAW worker paycheck – ~$3,000 per week (considering $73/hr x 40 hours).
Average UAW Business Manager paycheck – ~$12,500 per week (considering $150,000 per year salary)
Average UAW President paycheck – ~$31,250 per week (considering $1.5M salary)
And the Union helps worker how?
SeniorD on December 12, 2008 at 12:32 PM
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