Corker: All we asked is that the UAW give us a date by which it would become competitive

posted at 3:06 pm on December 12, 2008 by Allahpundit

But of course that was asking too much, because evidently the UAW prefers the risk of bankruptcy and mass layoffs to further pay cuts. Their excuse:

The sticking point apparently was the union’s refusal to agree to lower wage and benefit rates as soon as next year.

Representatives for the union, which had already accepted a series of cuts in its current contract, sought instead to push any more concessions back to 2011, when the U.A.W.’s contract with Detroit auto companies expires.

In a statement Thursday night, the union said it was “prepared to agree that any restructuring plan should ensure that the wages and benefits of workers at the domestic automakers should be competitive with those paid by the foreign transplants. But we also recognized that this would take time to work out and implement” using programs like buyouts and early retirement offers to bring in new workers at lower rates.

Would the union have agreed to Corker’s plan if they didn’t have Bush waiting in the wings to bail them out with TARP money? (Yup, says Corker.) After all, TARP is a sweeter deal for them than Corker’s bill since, as one White House source noted, the loans come with few strings attached. Thus have the inefficiencies of the initial Wall Street bailout made this bailout more inefficient, too. Watch, then read on.

Two points about all this. One: If Bush is going to bite the bullet and release the TARP money (legally or not), why not blame it on Obama? Call a presser, affirm that he opposes funding the Big Three without stringent restructuring requirements, then humbly declare that he doesn’t want to complicate life for the incoming administration by sinking the auto industry knowing they support a bailout. The media’s constantly whining anyway about the lag time between the election and The One’s ascension to the throne. Point to that and frame the bridge loan as a grudging measure necessary to an orderly transition.

Two: I made this point before in the context of the Wall Street bailout, but let me make it again. Is anyone in the GOP leadership weighing the costs of action versus the costs of inaction or are we running on pure dogma here? I keep thinking about Mitch McConnell saying yesterday that he’ll oppose the bailout even though it’s “impossible to know” what the consequences of bankruptcy would be. Hey, Mitch? Not good enough. No one’s asking for absolute certainty on the outcome, which really is impossible; what I want is a good-faith attempt at assessing costs, benefits, and probabilities of all courses of action. If they’re convinced that economic catastrophe is inevitable and don’t want to burn any more taxpayer money trying to deflect the asteroid, that’s fine. If, on the flip side, they think the consequences of letting the Big Three fail and losing a million jobs in this economic climate won’t be that bad, that’s fine too. Both are good reasons to oppose a bailout. But make the case. Explain to me why, in the middle of a global economic crisis, propping up a failing industry to save jobs at least until the crisis is over is a worse option than pulling the plug now. The prospect of being taxed to support a $100 billion rescue of the auto industry is awful, but not nearly as awful as the cascade effect of consumer purchasing power drying up and me losing my job as part of a $500 billion hit to the economy. Is that what we’re looking at here or is it something less, or more? My sense is that both sides are uninterested in exploring the question, and that our side is content to repose religious faith in the divine market to arrive at the least painful solution. Can I at least see some numbers before I take communion? If not, then this really is much a crisis of political leadership as it is a financial one.

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Comment pages: 1 2

The prospect of being taxed to support a $100 billion rescue of the auto industry is awful, but not nearly as awful as the cascade effect of consumer purchasing power drying up and me losing my job as part of a $500 billion hit to the economy.

This is my quandary as well.

SlimyBill on December 12, 2008 at 3:14 PM

“[T]his really is much a crisis of political leadership as it is a financial one.”

[From Instapundit]

cthulhu on December 12, 2008 at 3:14 PM

Explain to me why, in the middle of a global economic crisis, propping up a failing industry to save jobs at least until the crisis is over is a worse option than pulling the plug now.

For me, it depends on who benefits from that bailout.

Slublog on December 12, 2008 at 3:15 PM

The prospect of being taxed to support a $100 billion rescue of the auto industry is awful, but not nearly as awful as the cascade effect of consumer purchasing power drying up and me losing my job as part of a $500 billion hit to the economy.

Canned food and dry noodles dude. Now’s the time to start stocking up. Might want to go ahead and invest in a good tent and sleeping bag too.

meltenn on December 12, 2008 at 3:16 PM

Bleh. Hit submit by accident. I don’t like the thought of federal money going to prop up a failing industry, but I’d like that money to be distributed as part of a larger, organized restructuring.

Slublog on December 12, 2008 at 3:17 PM

The retired workers at the Big3 were promised their pensions from earnings made at a later date. That’s the same promise that Madoff made to his investors. Sooner or later the jig is up.

pedestrian on December 12, 2008 at 3:18 PM

There’s NO way the socialist-inspired UAW is going to back off from its SOP now that a Marxist is about to be sworn in as Prez.

stonemeister on December 12, 2008 at 3:18 PM

I guess it comes down to this.

Do we let the Big 3 die to get rid of the UAW?

Or do we keep the UAW to save the Big 3?

I’d much rather go with the former.

MadisonConservative on December 12, 2008 at 3:20 PM

Do we let the Big 3 die to get rid of the UAW?

Why do want to get rid of the UAW?

terryannonline on December 12, 2008 at 3:23 PM

Whose ginned up numbers would you believe? No one’s.

The market says take a hit now. It’s better than what we take later.

TomJW on December 12, 2008 at 3:23 PM

then this really is much a crisis of political leadership as it is a financial one.

Does this qualify for a bailout too?? *sigh*

nolapol on December 12, 2008 at 3:23 PM

The “bail out” of the Big Three may save auto workers jobs in the short term, but it doesn’t save jobs for the nation. When you take tax money to make a welfare clients of the Big Three, you are destroying the jobs that tax money would have kept afloat when spent by taxpayers on products they actually want. Since some of the tax money is burned up by government when it transfers it from taxpayer to UAW worker, it is by its nature an inefficient arrangement.

How serious can the auto industry be about being competitive when they maintain a job bank of employees doing jack at 95% pay for four years after they are laid off. Demanding their members get paid for nothing in job banks shows how little committed the auto workers unions are to keeping their industry viable and competitive and how committed instead they are to getting their members something for nothing.

Has anyone but me noticed that the media has not referred even once to this bailout as welfare for the Big Three? Isn’t that an odd omission, dontcha think?

Tantor on December 12, 2008 at 3:24 PM

Slublog on December 12, 2008 at 3:15 PM

That was an excellent piece you linked to. We own a small business, too, and we have made many hard decisions since Obama and his anti-small business Democrats were elected.

People cry about the Big 3 and job losses, but what about all the job losses that will ensue when Barry and his Congressional majority gets their filthy, Marxist hands on us? It’s already happening, as that piece illustrates.

I very much doubt we’ll be hearing how important all the small businesses are, and how they need to be bailed out to save those jobs, which will exceed whatever job losses the Big 3′s restructuring would have.

Rae on December 12, 2008 at 3:27 PM

The prospect of being taxed to support a $100 billion rescue of the auto industry is awful, but not nearly as awful as the cascade effect of consumer purchasing power drying up and me losing my job as part of a $500 billion hit to the economy.

So when do we stop subsidizing failure? If you float a job that has no demand to support it, you do not have a real job. You essentially rob from the productive part of society to subsidize the unproductive part. The only party enriched is the government.

If the Big 3 truly went under (I believe at least one would survive), that would create greater demand for cars made in TN, AL, SC, TX, etc. by the other auto-makers and workers with skills could relocate to those (non-union) states and get jobs in productive environments.

If the demand I reference isn’t there, $100 trillion wouldn’t work. We are assuming that there is a demand for autos, just not autos from Detroit. How is giving them money going to change that? It won’t, so we need to let whatever happens happen and wait for the market to absorb the demand and to create REAL jobs with profitable companies.

mankai on December 12, 2008 at 3:28 PM

I thought the left thought there were to many cars on the road as it is. One less car company wouldn’t be a bad thing.

If Cerberus can be a part of dismantling and liquidating Mervyn’s department stores then they can surely dismantle Chrysler.

nolapol on December 12, 2008 at 3:33 PM

Why do want to get rid of the UAW?

terryannonline on December 12, 2008 at 3:23 PM

Because they bear a good portion of the responsibility for killing Detroit. UAW starting salary is over $60K plus gold-plated benies. The rules do not allow for firing bad employees, and the big three have to have “job banks” to pay folks who are not working. Employees are partially responsible for shoddy quality of how American POS’s are put together. Execs should be keelhauled for the designs, business planning, and failure to act sooner, but overpaid workers represented by UAW thugs have made it impossible for America to compete.

Laura in Maryland on December 12, 2008 at 3:34 PM

It’s not an all or nothing situation. Absent a bailout, one or more of the Three will likely file Chapter 11. That’s not the end, but is the best chance to restructure the companies into viable business enterprises. Multiple airlines did the same thing, and for similar reasons.

I disagree with referring to conservative’s most cherished principles as “dogma.” America is more successful, with a consistently lower unemployment rate than our European cousins, in part because we adhere more closely to the principals of capitalism, which thrives in part because organizations that have become unviable are allowed to fail. That frees up capital and other resources for successful organizations. It is true that the benefits of adhering to that principal are a quiet prosperity that is hard to trace in a news story, while the costs are highly visible at a media and political level. But if we abandon it, we are taking the path of the Luddites — or the Europeans, and will pay the price, albeit with the same misallocation of political blame we’ve seen in the Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac-driven housing crisis.

Splunge on December 12, 2008 at 3:36 PM

Why do want to get rid of the UAW?

terryannonline on December 12, 2008 at 3:23 PM

Among other reasons, they’re one of the most thuggish and most powerful unions left in existence, and they are part of the reason the American automotive industry is in the state it’s in. They hold all the nightmare policies of the NEA.

MadisonConservative on December 12, 2008 at 3:37 PM

So how much bailout money would be needed to keep GM and Chrysler afloat at current UAW wages until 2011?

Ya know, there is a Congressional election in 2010. This might be a good issue to run on.

President Reagan took on the air-traffic controllers’ union in 1981, yet starting air-traffic controllers today make $80K per year without unions. If there’s enough demand for the service, people will pay the price. But when it comes to cars, if there’s non-union competition out there, you’ve got to make your car either better or cheaper, or it won’t sell. Which is hard to do when you’re paying people who made their last car 20 years or more ago.

I gave money to Corker’s campaign two years ago–now THAT was a good investment!

Steve Z on December 12, 2008 at 3:38 PM

Two: I made this point before in the context of the Wall Street bailout, but let me make it again. Is anyone in the GOP leadership weighing the costs of action versus the costs of inaction or are we running on pure dogma here?

It’s not pure dogma – some of this has to do with a misinformed idea of what the American people really want in preparation for the next election (Hint: this is not going to be a big deal considering all of the other economic issues that we are going to be dealing with in the near term, and when everything is finally sorted out, nobody’s going to care what these peoples’ positions on the automotive bailout were).

If this were pure dogma, you’d think they might have decided to be a bit more observant sooner.

Big S on December 12, 2008 at 3:39 PM

A consumer based economy is the problem. Whether we like it or not, we have to allow the collapse of not only the banks but all other mismanaged industry as well. The bailouts have only delayed the inevitable collapse of an economy that doesn’t produce anything. A debt based economy.

Consider this, we are borrowing money from China for these bailouts, we are also buying the stuff they make with that borrowed money. So they loan us money to buy their stuff and then we still have to pay back the original paper.

This is insane.

True_King on December 12, 2008 at 3:41 PM

Question: Should Detroit get bailed out today and fails anyway next year won’t this be on The One. (Call the bridge loan to nowhere expensive congressional advertising).

nolapol on December 12, 2008 at 3:42 PM

It strikes me that if the heads of the Big 3 were really forward thinking and actually gave half a damn about their companies and the future of the american auto industry, they’s put on their track shoes and run, not walk, to the nearest bankruptcy court.

trigon on December 12, 2008 at 3:49 PM

Bailouts are handouts, and we don’t need to reward failure with money.

molonlabe28 on December 12, 2008 at 3:49 PM

Would the union have agreed to Corker’s plan if they didn’t have Bush waiting in the wings to bail them out with TARP money? (Yup, says Corker.

I’m not entirely convinced the GOP (and Dems, maybe) senators aren’t happy that Bush is doing the bailout. The bailout is extremely unpopular, President Bush is unpopular. The GOP senators get to be on the popular side while sticking an unpopular bailout with an unpopular president who’s leaving in a few months.

terryannonline on December 12, 2008 at 3:50 PM

OK. Here’s a certainty:
The UAW life support system Big 3 can’t be competitive while the UAW remains in any form close to its current one. For the UAW host organism Big 3 to survive, therefore, the UAW must be broken. Not just “concessions.” It must have its influence drastically reduced to provide the bottomless pits of sweet, sweet union cash automotive companies the flexibility required to operate competitively. Any kind of assistance which does not radically reduce the UAW’s power over its witless, pathetic victims partners in excellence will fail, and in the relatively short term, no matter what the other particulars of that assistance might be.

jdub on December 12, 2008 at 3:50 PM

The prospect of being taxed to support a $100 billion rescue of the auto industry is awful, but not nearly as awful as the cascade effect of consumer purchasing power drying up and me losing my job as part of a $500 billion hit to the economy.

How about this for awful, the dollar and U.S. treasuries start falling because we have borrowed so much that foreign creditors lose faith in our ability to pay them back.

We can’t keep bailing out failed industries without consequences. Besides, the only solution to the automakers problems is to restructure and be smaller but profitable. We are in for years of weak growth because of our debts.

Bill C on December 12, 2008 at 3:51 PM

It’s mostly dogma, but in this case they are right. Its really hard to find anyone who thinks GM and Chrysler won’t be back for more when the new regime takes over, and the case for Ch. 11 leading to systemic collapse is much harder to make in this case.

phronesis on December 12, 2008 at 3:51 PM

Hey Allah,

How much good have all the bailouts done so far? I suppose the answer is that we cannot know, right? Or could we get a sh*tload of accountants and a few hundred boxes of Boston No.4 pencils and figure it out. “Not good enough!”? As if any answer arrived at would be unassailable. What a stupid statement: “Not good enough”

How about this? How about $7 trillion and we’re still going down for the count? How about adding massive devaluation to an aleady ugly economic picture? How about giving corrupt government idiots even more control over businesses that they have no clue about? How about we figure out how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Sorry, Allah. This piece was not good enough.

PD Quig on December 12, 2008 at 3:53 PM

The big 3 are not going out of business and the lost of millions of jobs is simply a way to play it to the people who are once again getting sucked in. IF those jobs were really on the line, then the workers should have a real problem with their unions refusing concessions to save their jobs. At job with a $10 an hour pay cut is better than no job at all if you are still making enough to feed your family (even if your lifestyle goes down a bit).

We the People are once again being sold down the river! Remember the last “hurry up and rush” bailout? As Dr. Phil would say: How did that work for you?

katablog.com on December 12, 2008 at 3:58 PM

I think I see whats going on…

UAW KNOWS it owns the next Congress, which will pass Card Check.

They then need TIME to Unionize the Southern plants… three years would be more than enough.

This will, de facto, bring all the American Auto Manufacturers Labor costs in line… not by lowering the costs of the big three, but by RAISING the costs of the others. Once this is done, ask your Pet Congress to ensure that tariff’s are inforce which will ensure domestic cars are competivly priced…. and Abra Cadabra! Problem solved…

American companies are competitive… Labor keeps its benifits… Congress keeps its pork… and the only losers are the Taxpayers and consumers … but who cares about them anyway…

Romeo13 on December 12, 2008 at 4:00 PM

The prospect of being taxed to support a $100 billion rescue of the auto industry is awful, but not nearly as awful as the cascade effect of consumer purchasing power drying up and me losing my job as part of a $500 billion hit to the economy.

If you are going to lose your job, you will lose it, the question is when. Besides the constitutional questions of whether the government can take our tax money and bail out or buy private companies, we have the band aid issue. Do you want to jerk off the band aid, or pull it off slowly and painfully? Intevention cannot make the situation better (and maybe make it worse), it can only defer and probably lengthen the recession/depression.

Vashta.Nerada on December 12, 2008 at 4:02 PM

Can I at least see some numbers before I take communion?

Nope, it’s time for panic, not numbers. No time for numbers. Just nationalize everything, or the sky will fall down.

petefrt on December 12, 2008 at 4:04 PM

But we also recognized that this would take time to work out and implement” using programs like buyouts and early retirement offers to bring in new workers at lower rates.

Translation: no salary cuts for any current member of the union, and golden parachutes all around.

unclesmrgol on December 12, 2008 at 4:04 PM

So I see, Bush is stepping up to be even more unpopular so that GOPers could be righteously indignant about the proposed bailout.

Next quarter 2009, when Obama/Pelosi/Reid formally bailout Detroit when Big 3 ask for more ready cash, thus set up the comeback of the Republicans in 2010 or 2012?

Will there be anything left after all this?

Sir Napsalot on December 12, 2008 at 4:05 PM

BOHICA…

catmman on December 12, 2008 at 4:05 PM

Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?
- King Henry II

Will no one rid us of this greedy bloodsucking UAW?
- Joe and Sally Taxpayer and the Grandkids

MB4 on December 12, 2008 at 4:06 PM

The car companies are like a sinking ship… The UAW members are the passengers, and the union salaries, union benefits, retiree legacy benefits, and government regulations are the cargo.

Someone on the ship had better decide to throw some(a portion) of the cargo overboard to keep the ship afloat long enough for the bilge pump to empty the bilge well.

The UAW had better realize that they need the ship more than they need all of the cargo, and the government had better realize and concede that a lot of their regulations are weighing the ship down.

I hate their audacity. They are not willing to sacrifice to help to fix their own problems. American taxpayers, like me and like you, should not be saddled with their burden.

Fundamental Fred on December 12, 2008 at 4:07 PM

When the UAW makes cars, they keep on running buys politicians, they stay bought.

MB4 on December 12, 2008 at 4:08 PM

If you don’t believe the UAW is a major part of the problem, just take a look at This. I Just saw it at Michelle Malkin’s blog, and it explains alot!

Let the Big 3 file Ch. 11, and clean house!

Salukidog on December 12, 2008 at 4:09 PM

Romeo13 on December 12, 2008 at 4:00 PM

By golly, I think you’ve got it.

After they get the southern car plants, they’ll go for Wal-Mart.

Rush suggested Obama-Reid-Pelosi may transfer gubmit’s ownership interests in the car companies to UAW. Redistributive justice.

petefrt on December 12, 2008 at 4:11 PM

Why didn’t we demand wage cuts for investment banks? This is nothing but hypocrasy. Protect those making millions. Screw those who make many times less. And STOP the lie about the 70 bucks an hour. That includes pension and healthcare and everyone who’s read more than a headline gets that.

DeathToMediaHacks on December 12, 2008 at 4:14 PM

Let the Big 3 file Ch. 11, and clean house!

Salukidog on December 12, 2008 at 4:09 PM

Ch. 11 would be analogous to an alcoholic going to AA meetings. Bailouts are analogous to giving the alcoholic still more booze just to temporarily mask an even bigger liver failure.

MB4 on December 12, 2008 at 4:14 PM

It’s time to suck it up and remember we are Americans have have ideals about the way our government needs to act. Did we elect any of these people to take control of business — especially failing businesses? Does anyone truly believe that this bailout does anything to help the economy? Do you really believe that by putting off bankruptcy for three months using money that is going to mostly be pissed away is somehow beneficial to the nation as a whole?

grdred944 on December 12, 2008 at 4:15 PM

Why didn’t we demand wage cuts for investment banks? This is nothing but hypocrasy. Protect those making millions. Screw those who make many times less. And STOP the lie about the 70 bucks an hour. That includes pension and healthcare and everyone who’s read more than a headline gets that.

DeathToMediaHacks on December 12, 2008 at 4:14 PM

It has been mainly conservatives and Republicans who have been against socialist bailouts and welfare to free loader screwups of any stripe. You need to talk to the liberals and democrats.

MB4 on December 12, 2008 at 4:18 PM

Can I at least see some numbers before I take communion? If not, then this really is much a crisis of political leadership as it is a financial one.

Even if they could somehow come up with the numbers, they’d ignore them just as they’ve done so many times before. Just last year our so-called political leaders tried to cram an ill-conceived massive amnesty bill down the public’s throat, without any real idea of what it would cost U.S. taxpayers. When The Heritage Foundation crunched some of the numbers (even based on the ridiculous gov’t underestimates of how many illegals are actually living in the U.S.), they pointed out how legalizing tens of millions of under-educated, unskilled, non-English-proficient illegals and their eligible-to-tag-along family members would tremendously burden U.S. taxpayers and would likely bankrupt Social Security and Medicaid/Medicare much sooner than anticipated. Did that stop our so-called leaders from trying to pass that irresponsible POS legislation? Hell no, it didn’t even slow them down.

The same was also true with our dear leaders’ idiotic encouragement of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac’s insane lending policies that set the whole subprime mess in motion and pushed our entire economy to the brink of ruin. Gov’t auditors warned them over and over again for years that they were flirting with disaster. Did they listen? Hell no. “More risk” demands Barney Frank, not less.

Let’s stop pretending these people are making decisions based on reason or logic or what’s actually in the best interests of the country. They’re blithering idiots, doing whatever “feels good” to them and/or whatever will pacify the demands of their biggest contributors. They don’t give a damn about consequences; they never have and they never will. And why should they, when voters refuse to hold them accountable?

AZCoyote on December 12, 2008 at 4:18 PM

Michigan, unlike Texas, South Carolina and a few other states has a closed union arrangement. In other words, employees are forced to accept the union. Furthermore, Michigan and the federal government have pandered to the UAW and are as responsible for this fiasco as are the auto manufacturers. They’ve allowed these communist unions to dictate to them and the result was chaos and financial ruin. It must stop and if it costs Republicans the state of Michigan, then so be it. We have a simple choice in this country to either have a democratic, free market economy or follow the Democrats into a Marist/communist state. For me the choice is clear

rplat on December 12, 2008 at 4:19 PM

I keep thinking about Mitch McConnell saying yesterday that he’ll oppose the bailout even though it’s “impossible to know” what the consequences of bankruptcy would be. Hey, Mitch? Not good enough.

I oppose the bailout even if it does cost a million jobs. I oppose it even if it costs my job. How’s that, Allah?

t.ferg on December 12, 2008 at 4:21 PM

The resident bit*h over at PMSNBC Norah O’Dumbo naturally sided with the UAW and attacked the foreign automakers in the south not being intelligent enough to understand that those are AMERICAN WORKERS in those plants.

I believe the principal of subsidizing private companys will destroy this nation. In the face of what’s transpired in the past few months with our government, (and yes, the Bush administration) basically nationalizing our financial institutions and soon our auto industries, it’s only a matter of time. The more the government continues to “invest” in private industry, the more dependent we “the people” become to some one in Washington—where the heart of corruption begins. Show me a government program that could survive in the private sector. Simple answer is they can’t. The bureaucratic system swallows any profit structure.

I fear that if the Democratic Party, (and Mr. Obama), erect even 50% of the new entitlements, (and any government funded program), disguised as a stimulas, will only advance our dependency on the power structure in Washington and the representatives we elected. It’s not a “slippery-slope”, it’s a recipe for disaster. Capitalism and the free market principals that forged this great nation has taken a giant step backwards.

Rovin on December 12, 2008 at 4:23 PM

Why didn’t we demand wage cuts for investment banks? This is nothing but hypocrasy.

DeathToMediaHacks on December 12, 2008 at 4:14 PM

Looks over at the Remote Readout Device monitoring the 4th plane of He11….

Yea… pretty darn cold down there….

I have to actualy agree with you… we should have demnaded that Banks and such cut their costs… especialy of the execs…

Romeo13 on December 12, 2008 at 4:25 PM

We should have demanded that banks opperate more effeciently, yes. But just because we did the wrong thing with the banks doesn’t mean we should do the wrong thing with the auto industry.

t.ferg on December 12, 2008 at 4:27 PM

and that our side is content to repose religious faith in the divine market to arrive at the least painful solution.

You sound like a democrat. You need to watch more Peter Schiff videos.

lodge on December 12, 2008 at 4:28 PM

The more the government continues to “invest” in private industry, the more dependent we “the people” become to some one in Washington—where the heart of corruption begins.

Let me remind you that the American people just voted in a president and Congress that promised them “free” health care, college education and so forth. I don’t know but it seems like people want government intervention. Just saying….

terryannonline on December 12, 2008 at 4:29 PM

White House Phone Numbers:

Phone Numbers

Comments: 202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414
FAX: 202-456-2461

t.ferg on December 12, 2008 at 4:32 PM

If not, then this really is much a crisis of political leadership as it is a financial one.

well said. we lost the election and our “leaders” still have no balls. balls out!

anna on December 12, 2008 at 4:33 PM

Look at it this way (from the point of Obama/Pelosi/Reid):

All the stars are aligned in our favor.
Can’t waste this ‘crisis of a lifetime’ opportunity now, can we?

Sir Napsalot on December 12, 2008 at 4:35 PM

Why does it have to cost jobs. We could still throw money money at them, but only AFTER they file Chapter 11, get their itshay oogethertay, and come up with a viable business plan.

Laura in Maryland on December 12, 2008 at 4:37 PM

did you catch the uaw press conference this morning? good lord, the entitlement on that guy.

anna on December 12, 2008 at 4:39 PM

Let me remind you that the American people just voted in a president and Congress that promised them “free” health care, college education and so forth. I don’t know but it seems like people want government intervention. Just saying….

terryannonline on December 12, 2008 at 4:29 PM

NOTHING IS FREE terryann. And I didn’t vote in any of those asses that passed out those false promises.

I want to tell the government to get the F**K out of business. Do I sound like any of those people you’re talkin’ bout terryann?

Rovin on December 12, 2008 at 4:40 PM

NOTHING IS FREE terryann.

I know. That’s why put it quotations :)

And I didn’t vote in any of those asses that passed out those false promises.

I want to tell the government to get the F**K out of business. Do I sound like any of those people you’re talkin’ bout terryann?

No you don’t. I’m just pointing out the American people voted for Big Government. Conservatives have to make the case for less government again but it’s going to take a whole lot of convincing.

terryannonline on December 12, 2008 at 4:45 PM

An article just appeared in the NYTimes where GM announces that they will shut down all manufacturing until January 20th.

In most cases it is an extension of the holiday shutdown, but this is the first time GM has shut everything down.

One might presume that on January 21st GM would expect to find salvation in Washington.

Skandia Recluse on December 12, 2008 at 4:46 PM

Oops. That was cthulhu on December 12, 2008 at 3:14 PM that I should have given credit to on the article in my post Rae on December 12, 2008 at 3:27 PM.

Rae on December 12, 2008 at 4:46 PM

Latest Big Three ad

MB4 on December 12, 2008 at 4:46 PM

Latest Big Three ad

MB4 on December 12, 2008 at 4:46 PM

The least they can do after January 2009 is to name some of their new cars “Americans Suckered” or something….

Sir Napsalot on December 12, 2008 at 4:55 PM

And STOP the lie about the 70 bucks an hour. That includes pension and healthcare and everyone who’s read more than a headline gets that.

It isn’t a lie – you just said so yourself. All the comparison’s I’ve seen use apples-to-apples. Ya’ll are making a lot more than the workers at plants that are run more efficiently.

Note that your wages would be none of my freaking business if you weren’t insisting that I should pay them. But now, I have every right to say that you are making too much because as a direct result of your compensation package, your business is failing.

Please don’t expect me, who doesn’t make anything close to half of your salary to subsidize your life.

angelat0763 on December 12, 2008 at 4:57 PM

Here’s a question–are they going to put “US Taxpayers” stickers on all of the stock cars?

m064404 on December 12, 2008 at 4:57 PM

I know. That’s why put it quotations :)

My apologies….I missed the “‘s the first time around.

No you don’t. I’m just pointing out the American people voted for Big Government. Conservatives have to make the case for less government again but it’s going to take a whole lot of convincing.

I think you throw around that “American people” a little to liberally. Big Government will eat the country’s resources alive in no time at all. What a portion of this electorate voted for is a free lunch on the backs of the productive American worker. Everyone will pay for this impending disaster in the end.

Rovin on December 12, 2008 at 4:58 PM

An article just appeared in the NYTimes where GM announces that they will shut down all manufacturing until January 20th.

I hope fires break out.

angelat0763 on December 12, 2008 at 4:58 PM

Corker is a terrible Senator.

His support of the $700 Billion financial sector bailout/handout will cost him many votes here in Tn in 2012.

It will certainly cost him my vote in that election.

Bocephus (Hank Williams, Jr. to you yankees) is contemplating a run in the Republican primary for Corker’s Senate seat, and he is considerably more appealing to me than Corker at this point.

molonlabe28 on December 12, 2008 at 5:02 PM

And in other news…

Today Detroit announced their New Product Lines…

The New Chrysler Robber Baron…

the Ford Debt Exploder…

and GM announced, for the young at heart, the New GM Ripoff!

Romeo13 on December 12, 2008 at 5:06 PM

Latest Big Three ad

MB4 on December 12, 2008 at 4:46 PM

Roaring laughter! Good one MB4

Rovin on December 12, 2008 at 5:10 PM

I’m just pointing out the American people voted for Big Government. Conservatives have to make the case for less government again but it’s going to take a whole lot of convincing.

I think that a significant number of Americans voted for change, not big government. Bush ran on a very different platform than the one he actually governed under. He said no nation building, smaller government, blah blah blah. Instead, we got Iraq, No Child Left Behind, The Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act, a Car Czar, a Bank Bailout…the list goes on and on. Saying that American’s aren’t conservative because they voted the Republicans out is a bit misleading. The GOP left conservatism, not the other way around.

angelat0763 on December 12, 2008 at 5:15 PM

angelat0763 on December 12, 2008 at 5:15 PM

+1 well stated

57 million voted NO WE WON’T

nolapol on December 12, 2008 at 5:21 PM

If the Big 3 truly went under (I believe at least one would survive), that would create greater demand for cars made in TN, AL, SC, TX, etc. by the other auto-makers and workers with skills could relocate to those (non-union) states and get jobs in productive environments.

That’s laughable. They couldn’t make affordable muscle if they had to.

sethstorm on December 12, 2008 at 5:26 PM

Romeo13 on December 12, 2008 at 5:06 PM

Followed by models from the transplants such as:

Honda Trabant Si

Toyota Yugo GV-R

Hyundai Camry as well as their Kia Town & Country

Accompanying it will be an ad from the transplants:
(Picture of a transplant’s most spartan compact next to one of their luxury exotics)

Caption: Pick carefully, as these will be your only choices.

sethstorm on December 12, 2008 at 5:33 PM

molonlabe28 on December 12, 2008 at 5:02 PM

Hey, a fellow Tennessean! What part of the state are you in?

meltenn on December 12, 2008 at 5:35 PM

I have to actualy agree with you… we should have demnaded that Banks and such cut their costs… especialy of the execs…

Ha! It’s nipply here all of a sudden.

One thing the UAW guy on CNN that made alot for me is that if we’re going to delve into the details of workers compensation packages, health benefits penstions as part of our criteria for determining this bailout. Why don’t we do the same for ALL of the economnic cogs in this industry. Companies that aupply might be charging too much. THEIR workers might need to get paid. What’s the mid-level management salary/benefits package? Advertising firms who handle auto accounts? Etc. etc. etc. It’s just a little bit insane for us to look at ONE segment of the auto workforce and blame it for all of the problems and demand it be the only one that makes sacrifices.

But when you’re so ideologically anti-union, vs, being in favor of something that is truly a shared burden, you say “UAW real loud and close your ears to all else.

DeathToMediaHacks on December 12, 2008 at 5:47 PM

But when you’re so ideologically anti-union, vs, being in favor of something that is truly a shared burden, you say “UAW real loud and close your ears to all else.

Consider it a leftover from the Reagan era.

sethstorm on December 12, 2008 at 5:53 PM

Bitch set me up, dog.

CornFedBeauty on December 12, 2008 at 6:03 PM

So much negativity! I have a plan that would help most Americans but I can’t get anyone to listen. Perhaps some of you folks can help. I have a product with a proven track record although it has largely disappeared from the market because of the machinations of the devious, greedy auto makers. I’ve tried to get Congress to devote a small percentage of the bailout to my company as seed money but I continue to be stonewalled. My product is simple, easily scalable and environmentally friendly. It will help in the battle against global warming and will be a great new source of green employment. Perhaps one of you readers know of a way that I can break through the wall of silence and get a fair hearing. I’m not disclosing the nature of my product at this time because of competitive reasons. I can assure you however that it stands the same chance of success as the products make by the so-called “Big Three”. Please help.

Mason Jahr
Vice President
Alliance Horse Motivation Industries
Buggy Whip Division

Mason on December 12, 2008 at 6:03 PM

Saying that American’s aren’t conservative because they voted the Republicans out is a bit misleading. The GOP left conservatism, not the other way around.

angelat0763 on December 12, 2008 at 5:15 PM

I don’t know if Americans are or are not conservative. I’m kind of confused myself. They vote for Dems who are pretty honest that they will increase spending and raise taxes. They really don’t try to hide it. But then Americans sound conservative when they complain about Republican spending. So you figure that one out.

terryannonline on December 12, 2008 at 6:04 PM

Mason on December 12, 2008 at 6:03 PM

Could you write to your representative to refrain from stuffing his mouth with transplant manufacturer money?

sethstorm on December 12, 2008 at 6:12 PM

Mason Jahr
Vice President
Alliance Horse Motivation Industries
Buggy Whip Division

Mason on December 12, 2008 at 6:03 PM

Dear Mr. Mason,

We of Congress are sorry to be forced to deny your request for bailout funds.

It seems that two of our major core constiuencys have a major problem with your product.

First PETA has condemned your use of torture on poor enslaved horses…

And of course, Al Gore and the Greens have a serious problem with the amount of CO2 produced by the increase in horse population, AND would like to bring to your attention that Horses do pass gas…. and methane is also a Green house gas.

So, sorry, you will have to walk.

Signed
Nancy Pelosi

Romeo13 on December 12, 2008 at 6:13 PM

The Dems will get the money from TARP like they wanted.

getalife on December 12, 2008 at 6:14 PM

I hope that it doesn’t happen often but I agree with Deathtomediahacks for a Change

Two comments:

I heard from several former workers that a UAW plant is a wasteful nuthouse, drug den and tavern. The contract cited above is another problem. It looked 18 inches thick! So bust the union hire an animal to run it and make money!

Second, I heard that the assembly factories of the foreign are hell holes and we will pay for the health benes of the poor animals trapped therein. And I know tht Asians don’t care about creating jobs here. So we follow the solution to exploit the business, make money and create jobs and drive the foreigners out.

Third, there was some sense to the financial bailout since if the financial system fails, it will be bad. Very bad for us all. We can lose the autos — but we don’t have to.

IlikedAUH2O on December 12, 2008 at 6:22 PM

Geez…this is NOT a political problem. It is an economic problem. It is a problem of SUPPLY and DEMAND. There is not enough demand for US cars. There is not enough demand for the total output of cars in general. I don’t think it is even possible to bring the cost down enough to change that in the short term.

Something has to give on the supply side. I think there are simply too many cars, and it is a zero sum game. The only way to shift the amount of demand away from foreign cars to Big 3 cars is through some form of government intervention (taxes or subsidization).

Do we want to do that? I don’t. But unless we do, at least one and probably two of the Big 3 will fail. The bailout won’t stop it. Might as well save the money for direct assitance for those laid off. Help them re-train for other jobs. Reality sux, but fighting it won’t help.

JMHO.

connertown on December 12, 2008 at 6:25 PM

This isn’t about the UAW. It’s about the economic viability of the Big 3 and right now they are a falling enterprise.
The current drama features an uncomfortable Triage of Company, Union, and above all Government.
And the American taxpayer is the last resort.

Randy

williars on December 12, 2008 at 6:28 PM

then this really is as much a crisis of political leadership as it is a financial one.

That’s the key. Let’s hope when Obama reorganizes our economy and society, Republicans have a better alternative than offering “Democratic lite” options. I frankly doubt it at this point.

Scranton on December 12, 2008 at 6:33 PM

A government bailout of the Big Three keeps huge amounts of productive inputs in firms that can’t use them efficiently. Forcing taxpayers to subsidize the continued employment of gargantuan quantities of raw materials, labor and capital goods in unproductive pursuits is a recipe for economic stagnation. The popular and politically convenient myth has matters backwards: The bigger the unprofitable firm, the more vital it is that it be allowed to fail.

msyb on December 12, 2008 at 6:34 PM

It’s inevitable that the Whitehouse will cave and there will be a deal. Hey, White House: AT A MINIMUM, PLEASE INSIST THAT WHATEVER YOU DECIDE TO CONTRIBUTE HAS AT LEAST AS FAVORABLE TERMS AS THE DEAL THAT THE SENATE REPUBLICANS WOULD HAVE APPOVED!

EconomicNeocon on December 12, 2008 at 6:37 PM

I hit submit prematurely.

I would have added that the terms must include the incredibly offensive requirment that the UAW accept an amendment to their contract equivalent to what foreign competition incurs.

EconomicNeocon on December 12, 2008 at 6:39 PM

The Dems who ran against corporate tax cuts prefer instead corporate welfare and will most likely demand a stake in the companies the unions and congressional mandates have bankrupted.
The Dems plan to socialize America is well underway and will accelerate exponentially when Barack takes over with his Dem majorities!
Bye, Bye IRA’s, 401K’s, individual annuities!
Welcome big brother, cradle to grave welfare and socialism!
The year America died added by an apathetic self serveing political class and American public so dumbed down by the teachers unions that they know not who is even in charge.
I just wonder what will rise from the ashes!
Canada do you have room for a few freedom loving, self sufficient Americans?

dhunter on December 12, 2008 at 6:52 PM

Canada do you have room for a few freedom loving, self sufficient Americans?

LMAO! There is no room anymore for freedom loving, self sufficient individuals in Canada, so we’ve all moved south of the border already.

msyb on December 12, 2008 at 7:36 PM

Mason on December 12, 2008 at 6:03 PM

I won’t let you go under. My success depends on you!

Sincerely,
The CEO of Pony Express

Laura in Maryland on December 12, 2008 at 7:47 PM

Good grief. The US automakers are as dysfunctional an industry as there’s ever been. GM built 9.3 million cars in 2007. Toyota built as many. Toyota’s profit per vehicle: $1900. GM, however, managed to LOSE $4k per unit! And people think this is viable? That it can be saved? That it’s even worth saving???
A million jobs? Doubtful that it’s that many by a long shot. Even if it were, that’s still less than 1% of the US workforce, which currently stands at around 140 million.
GM and Chrysler no longer compete. Their union workers have seen to that. Both were great corporations in their day, but that day is long past. It’s time to let them slip away.

n0doz on December 12, 2008 at 7:55 PM

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