Arrest made in $50 billion Wall Street fraud

posted at 10:37 am on December 12, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

It may be difficult to grasp the scope of a $50 billion fraud on Wall Street, so think of it this way: it’s three times the size of the loan that the Big Three automakers tried squeezing out of Congress this week.  No help?  How about 1/14th the size of Hank Paulson’s TARP fund to rescue … er … Wall Street?  Feds arrested the former chairman of Nasdaq for perpetrating the biggest financial scam since the UN’s Oil-for-Food program:

A Wall Street powerbroker for nearly 50 years who built an influential firm has confessed to a massive fraud scheme that will cost investors at least $50 billion, federal authorities say.

Bernard L. Madoff, 70, facing a single count of securities fraud, declined to speak with reporters after a federal magistrate judge in U.S. District Court in Manhattan ordered him released Thursday night on $10 million bail.

Andrew M. Calamari, associate director of enforcement in the Securities and Exchange Commission’s New York office, said the SEC had filed a civil securities fraud charge as well and was alleging “a stunning fraud that appears to be of epic proportions.”

Madoff allegedly told senior employees that his firm had been insolvent for years and that he was running a Ponzi scheme to make money.  Madoff used incoming investments to show results for previous investors, a mirage that would eventually leave the last set of investors holding a very large bag.  The size of that bag at Madoff’s arrest?  About $7 billion in redemption demands that Madoff was desperately trying to cover.

Why did Madoff tell his employees what was happening?  He wanted to warn them about the storm to follow, but not before he fleeced an additional $200 million or more to give his senior employees some golden parachutes before Madoff turned himself in to the authorities.  One of the employees tipped off the FBI, which swooped in to end Madoff’s fraud.

Madoff got released on a $10 million bond pending his trial.  Believe it or not, that’s twice the maximum fine he could get for his crime.  Of course, Madoff could also get 20 years and be forced to provide restitution, but somehow I doubt he’ll have much liquidity left by the time a verdict gets delivered in the case.

We know that this financial crisis has its roots in government distortion of lending markets and the irrational escalation in housing prices that followed, but that doesn’t mean fraud doesn’t occur as well.  If the feds have the scale correct in the Madoff case, it will send shock waves through the investment community and could fatally undermine confidence in Nasdaq as well.

Blowback

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Now why wouldn’t you trust him with your money? He looks so honest.

bloggless on December 12, 2008 at 10:38 AM

Wait! You mean there actually is a man named “Calamari”? That is newsworthy in and of itself.

bloggless on December 12, 2008 at 10:39 AM

Bailout???
Bailout….
Bailout!!!

nolapol on December 12, 2008 at 10:39 AM

We know that this financial crisis has its roots in government distortion of lending markets and the irrational escalation in housing prices that followed, but that doesn’t mean fraud doesn’t occur as well. If the feds have the scale correct in the Madoff case, it will send shock waves through the investment community and could fatally undermine confidence in Nasdaq as well.

This is why I have disagreed with Michelle’s approach of no government intervention.

I did not (and do not) support the bailouts, but I do think that the private sector f’d over investors and recourse for justice involves government – investigation, prosecution of fraud like this, etc.

Spirit of 1776 on December 12, 2008 at 10:40 AM

Hire the guy to run Social Security since that is what it is anyway a big Ponzi scheme….

sven10077 on December 12, 2008 at 10:41 AM

Madoff…Madoff…Madoff…hmmmm…could he be a Jewish DEMOCRAT? Or is that profiling? Will the media tell us he has connections to democRATS? Nope. Only Republicans. RIGHT!!!!

Jarhead68 on December 12, 2008 at 10:42 AM

Absolutely disgusting. If convicted and it seems like a sure thing, I hope he rots in jail.

Lance Murdock on December 12, 2008 at 10:42 AM

Oh… I don’t know… this doesn’t even begin to touch the BIGGEST Frauds in history…

Like… Income Tax? The FEDERAL Government has no law on the books that says you have to file a 1040… states do… but they say its based on if you have to file federaly… There are also Supreme Court cases after the 16th was ratified that said it gave the Fed Gov no new power to tax…

Or, Man Made Global Warming???

Or, the latest National Reserve Banks creation of a few Trillion dollars, to give to its OWNERS (other banks) in direct contravention of the Constitution, that says ONLY the Federal Govenment can mint coins (ie create money).

This are all a bit bigger than a paltry 50 Billion… it takes a Government to defraud in a really big way….

Romeo13 on December 12, 2008 at 10:43 AM

AR15 – check

Other guns and loads of ammo – check

Remote cabin up north – check

Ability to hunt and fish – check

Truck always with at least 3/4 tank of gas – check

It never hurts to have a plan, never.

Bishop on December 12, 2008 at 10:44 AM

lol, I think we’re gonna see more of this. There are a lot of hedge funds denying redemptions to clients…I wonder why.

lodge on December 12, 2008 at 10:44 AM

Wait! You mean there actually is a man named “Calamari”? That is newsworthy in and of itself.

bloggless on December 12, 2008 at 10:39 AM

“It’s a TRAP!”

(Sorry, couldn’t resist)

Skywise on December 12, 2008 at 10:44 AM

Jarhead68 on December 12, 2008 at 10:42 AM

Hey buddy lets lay off the anti-Semitic tirades. IF you want to blame the Jooooos for every world ill why don’t you go visit your pals at the National Vanguard.

A$$hole.

Lance Murdock on December 12, 2008 at 10:44 AM

Well, that will knock the Pig 3/union bailout right off the front pages.
OOOh, Wall Street Greed!!
Tailor-made for the drive-bys.

Janna on December 12, 2008 at 10:46 AM

(D)emocrat donor

DEMOCRATIC SENATORIAL CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE (D)
SCHUMER, CHARLES E (D)
JEFF MERKLEY(D) FOR OREGON
RANGEL, CHARLES B (D)
CLINTON, HILLARY RODHAM (D)
DODD, CHRISTOPHER J (D)
DINGELL, JOHN D MR. (D)

But he gave Bush 41 about $2k in ’91 so it all doesn’t matter right?

DANEgerus on December 12, 2008 at 10:46 AM

Great! Even more evidence that handing 700 billion dollars of our money with virtually NO questions asked, NO checks and balances and NO oversight over investment firms was absolutely the right decision. Thank you corporately bought Dems and Republicans. Thanks for raking manufacturing industries that employ Americans, the supposedly beloved “job creators” over the fracking coals. Thanks for pitting workers against the taxpayer while bending over and allowing wall street explore ALL your cavities. I love politicians and the hack media which has allowed this to continue.

Obama’s support for the wall street bailout should be a liability. Foolishly, Republicans care about a tenuous Blago relationship. THIS is the crime. THIS is the corruption. Americans should be PISSED. I don’t know how all workers aren’t doing what those in Chicago did. If your compay is owned by a bank that got bailout money and that company is doing layoffs something is wrong. And you need to get off your ass and exercise this right we have of peaceful protest. Is this America or not?

DeathToMediaHacks on December 12, 2008 at 10:46 AM

Over at Opensecrets.org, a search of Bernard Madoff shows he was a big donor to Democrats, especially the Democratic Senate Campaign Committee, along with Chuck Schumer.

Steve Tsouloufis on December 12, 2008 at 10:48 AM

could he be a Jewish DEMOCRAT? Or is that profiling?

Of course it is. Just like white southern republican, or white middle class proletariat etc. etc.

More importantly, what’s his voting record and who are his lobbyists?

nolapol on December 12, 2008 at 10:49 AM

DANEgerus on December 12, 2008 at 10:46 AM

nice work – your quick.

nolapol on December 12, 2008 at 10:51 AM

No, I still believe “Globull Warming” is the biggest fraud in US History, but this does seem to be a very close second!

Fuzzlenutter on December 12, 2008 at 10:52 AM

If investors lost $50 Billion, where did it all go? You can blow a few hundred mil on cars, yachts, and homes. The stock market has lost about a third, so where’s the rest? Under the mattress?

Mark30339 on December 12, 2008 at 10:52 AM

Madoff…Madoff…Madoff…hmmmm…could he be a Jewish DEMOCRAT? Or is that profiling? Will the media tell us he has connections to democRATS? Nope. Only Republicans. RIGHT!!!!

Jarhead68 on December 12, 2008 at 10:42 AM

This site continues to degenerate with idiots like Jarhead68, MB4 allowed to post the most vile racist and anti-semitic stuff

mainmann on December 12, 2008 at 10:53 AM

This is why “free market libertarianism” is a misguided joke that would never work.

Crooks are everywhere.

However, if the government actually had an effective enforcement mechanism (Congress) that wasn’t in the pockets of the Wall Street establishment, this wouldn’t happen as often.

I agree with the CHinese: a violaion of the public trust by politicians or businesses should be subject to the strictest punishment, including life terms with no parole.

In addition, the Congress should build a wall between itself and businesses. If that wall is violated than extreme punishment should be dealth upon conviction.

mylegsareswollen on December 12, 2008 at 10:53 AM

I don’t know how all workers aren’t doing what those in Chicago did.

What did they Do?

If your compay is owned by a bank that got bailout money and that company is doing layoffs something is wrong. And you need to get off your ass and exercise this right we have of peaceful protest. Is this America or not?

Frogs in a pot…

nolapol on December 12, 2008 at 10:53 AM

Awesome. So this guy ran a Ponzi scam for how many years? The outrage!

Yet nobody cares about the largest Ponzi scam of all…..’social security’.

You get what you deserve.

LimeyGeek on December 12, 2008 at 10:56 AM

DANEgerus on December 12, 2008 at 10:46 AM

Over at Opensecrets.org, a search of Bernard Madoff shows he was a big donor to Democrats, especially the Democratic Senate Campaign Committee, along with Chuck Schumer.

Steve Tsouloufis on December 12, 2008 at 10:48 AM

I was amazed at how fast you two are-I also searched Nasdaq and came up with 24 donations individual donors as employees of Nasdaq to democrats,4 donations went to republicans. Hmmmm.
I guess it really is a fallacy that the rich are all republicans…

canditaylor68 on December 12, 2008 at 10:57 AM

Hank Paulson says: “This guy’s a piker! I’ve ripped off at least 20 times more money than he has!”

MrScribbler on December 12, 2008 at 11:00 AM

Ya know, ‘Starship Troopers’ continually offers answers to our problems, in this case public whipping of all the involved individuals.

I say we turn to ST for answers from now on.

Bishop on December 12, 2008 at 11:00 AM

This is why “free market libertarianism” is a misguided joke that would never work.

Educate yourself before you start spouting this nonsense.

lodge on December 12, 2008 at 11:00 AM

This is why “free market libertarianism” is a misguided joke that would never work.

No. You’re making the classic mistake of confusing exploitations with systemic failures.

You’re also using the wrong term – it’s “free market capitalism” (or “laissez faire”)….libertarianism is but one ideology that espouses such an economic model.

LimeyGeek on December 12, 2008 at 11:00 AM

mainmann on December 12, 2008 at 10:53 AM

Seriously, I always enjoyed this site b/c Allah, Bryan and Ed would never set foot near these anti-Semitic conspiracies. It is a shame that they allow members mouth off whatever these a$$holes fell like.

Powell does have a point, if the Republican party wants a future in this country. It has to completely wipe clean xenophopic a-holes like Jarhead68, MB4.

Since everyone hear claims to a William F. Buckley Jr. fan, he would have smack these racists people out of his circle and cut all connect with these scum.

Lance Murdock on December 12, 2008 at 11:00 AM

Spirit of 1776 on December 12, 2008 at 10:40 AM

I agree.
Wretchard has a nice piece on this. Be sure to read the comments.

http://tinyurl.com/create.php

a capella on December 12, 2008 at 11:01 AM

I say we turn to ST for answers from now on.

Bishop on December 12, 2008 at 11:00 AM

Citizenship (and voting rights) through military service.

LimeyGeek on December 12, 2008 at 11:01 AM

No, I still believe “Globull Warming” is the biggest fraud in US History, but this does seem to be a very close second!

Fuzzlenutter on December 12, 2008 at 10:52 AM

Maybe, but I wouldn’t overlook the Y2K pandemic fraud foisted upon us by government and the hardware/software companies (Larry Ellison, Scott McNealy, Bill Gates, et. al.)

BadDogMN on December 12, 2008 at 11:01 AM

AR15 – check

Other guns and loads of ammo – check

Remote cabin up north – check

Ability to hunt and fish – check

Truck always with at least 3/4 tank of gas – check

It never hurts to have a plan, never.

Bishop on December 12, 2008 at 10:44 AM

Yep, have all the above, plus emergency food, gold coins, water, flashlights/batteries, candles, kerosene heater. Did I leave anything else out?

corvettelady on December 12, 2008 at 11:02 AM

Maybe, but I wouldn’t overlook the Y2K pandemic fraud foisted upon us by government and the hardware/software companies (Larry Ellison, Scott McNealy, Bill Gates, et. al.)

BadDogMN on December 12, 2008 at 11:01 AM

Yeah. I made out like a bandit in that one. Suckers.

LimeyGeek on December 12, 2008 at 11:02 AM

a capella on December 12, 2008 at 11:01 AM

Can you try the link again? Thanks.

Spirit of 1776 on December 12, 2008 at 11:06 AM

makes you wonder if any of this is what caused the house of cards to start to collapse on wallstreet forcing the bailout?

The timing of the financial mess(largely thanks to CDS(Derivatives) which Warren Buffet referred to as “Weapons of mass Financial Destruction” which were largely owned by Hedge Funds/Investment banker who tend to be Democrats.

then the timing of Gas prices staying inflated thanks to Speculators which were this same group of people(Hedge Funds) not to mention our foreign enemies and the fact that Bubble is now bursting right as the Election finally ended.

really makes you wonder if there isn’t a group of people that are really controlling things(or now how to do it).

Given the UN Oil for Food Scam was the largest in world history, I’d about bet Bush made some serious and powerful Enemies from that and has paid a heavy price for bringing some Justice to them.

jp on December 12, 2008 at 11:06 AM

If the feds have the scale correct in the Madoff case, it will send shock waves through the investment community and could fatally undermine confidence in Nasdaq as well.

Ed,

It will do no such thing. His Nasdaq trading desk is a separate business. His ideas and innovations are cornerstones of the market.

Where he ran aground was in a separate area of his personal business as a money manager. Those affairs were kept totally apart from all other businesses. My guess, once they review all the records, they will find he got into a series of losing trades–who knows maybe the internet bubble or even 1987 and the ponzi scheme started. The actual losing accounts were made whole with new deposits. Only the accounts at the end-now-will lose the money the others actually lost.

But as Warren Buffett so famously quipped, “when the tide goes out you see who is swimming naked”.

patrick neid on December 12, 2008 at 11:07 AM

Seriously, I always enjoyed this site b/c Allah, Bryan and Ed would never set foot near these anti-Semitic conspiracies. It is a shame that they allow members mouth off whatever these a$$holes fell like.

Powell does have a point, if the Republican party wants a future in this country. It has to completely wipe clean xenophopic a-holes like Jarhead68, MB4.

Since everyone hear claims to a William F. Buckley Jr. fan, he would have smack these racists people out of his circle and cut all connect with these scum.

Lance Murdock on December 12, 2008 at 11:00 AM

Well Said

mainmann on December 12, 2008 at 11:08 AM

This is why I have disagreed with Michelle’s approach of no government intervention.

I did not (and do not) support the bailouts, but I do think that the private sector f’d over investors and recourse for justice involves government – investigation, prosecution of fraud like this, etc.

Spirit of 1776 on December 12, 2008 at 10:40 AM

I think a pure free-market approach is only feasible in these cases if we actually had a Free Market. Instead anti-bailout types are trying to use a free-market solution(do nothing) to a non-free market. Not to mention the fact the Govt. helped create the mess.

I’m for some of the financial bailout(can’t have the house of cards fall all at once unless you want Martial law and watch our cities burn) and definitely against the Auto-Bailout. Only way I’d support the Auto thing is IF it was attached with freeing the Auto Industry of the UAW and Govt. Regulations.

jp on December 12, 2008 at 11:10 AM

This is why “free market libertarianism” is a misguided joke that would never work.

Libertarians believe that punishment under the law should be limited to offenses involving force or fraud. This case clearly is one of fraud, and thus would be fully punishable under the ideals of “free market libertarianism.”

Bugler on December 12, 2008 at 11:10 AM

I think a pure free-market approach is only feasible in these cases if we actually had a Free Market. Instead anti-bailout types are trying to use a free-market solution(do nothing) to a non-free market. Not to mention the fact the Govt. helped create the mess.

That is one motivation, sure. Not mine, but I understand your point.

Spirit of 1776 on December 12, 2008 at 11:13 AM

This is why “free market libertarianism” is a misguided joke that would never work.

it would work better in a Rational world, instead its a world of imperfect and evil humans.

I go back and forth on the topic, cases like this guy are why the “Free Market Libertarianism” is such a big loser politically. I think the truth is there are some areas that need Regulations and others that need much less if any Regulations on them.

The Credit Default Swaps(Multi-Trillion dollar problem now) are Private contracts and new instruments that had no regulations for example. Had we just had 300 Billion in bad mortgages to worry about it would be a much simpler problem to deal with.

jp on December 12, 2008 at 11:20 AM

Seriously, I always enjoyed this site b/c Allah, Bryan and Ed would never set foot near these anti-Semitic conspiracies. It is a shame that they allow members mouth off whatever these a$$holes fell like.

yeah but anti-arab anti-Muslim and anti-hispanic crap is all good, right?

You open the door to some bigots and you’re bound to let in others. Just look at Robert Spencer.

mofo on December 12, 2008 at 11:20 AM

Gephardt supporter, turned Kerry supporter in 2004.

Big supporter of the Dem Senatorial Campaign Committee last year.

Not that he’s a member of a certain political party or anything.
/sarc

Y-not on December 12, 2008 at 11:22 AM

yeah but anti-arab anti-Muslim and anti-hispanic crap is all good, right?

You open the door to some bigots and you’re bound to let in others. Just look at Robert Spencer.

mofo on December 12, 2008 at 11:20 AM

must have missed where Europe “lost” millions of the other “aggrieved” groups you are going on about….

sven10077 on December 12, 2008 at 11:23 AM

Why does this remind me of Trading Places… or whatever that movie is called.

Weird.

upinak on December 12, 2008 at 11:28 AM

This site continues to degenerate with idiots like Jarhead68, MB4 allowed to post the most vile racist and anti-semitic stuff

mainmann on December 12, 2008 at 10:53 AM

I agree.

As for this idiot’s “point” about who Madoff is and what his associations are, it seems to me that rather than speculating — and including his ethnic/religious heritage in his speculation as if that was relevant — jarhead (whom I hope to heaven is not a Marine) could do some ferkin’ research and confirm what I just did. He’s a major Dem donor.

But it’s easier to just speculate that the guy is a joooo and imply that that somehow explains his corruption.

If you’re going to be a bigot, at least put some effort into.

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life. — Dean Vernon Wormer

Y-not on December 12, 2008 at 11:30 AM

Powell does have a point, if the Republican party wants a future in this country. It has to completely wipe clean xenophopic a-holes like Jarhead68, MB4.

Since everyone hear claims to a William F. Buckley Jr. fan, he would have smack these racists people out of his circle and cut all connect with these scum.

Lance Murdock on December 12, 2008 at 11:00 AM

I thought Jarhead was banned a while ago. I remember that AP gave him a public spanking and a banning. What the heck happened?

newton on December 12, 2008 at 11:31 AM

BTW, Bernie is a huge dem donor. 100K to the DSCC in the last 5 years.

http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/search.php?name=madoff%2C+bernard&state=&zip=&employ=&cand=&c2008=Y&c2006=Y&c2004=Y&sort=N&capcode=mnhyx&submit=Submit

BuzzCrutcher on December 12, 2008 at 11:31 AM

Spirit of 1776 on December 12, 2008 at 11:06 AM

Sorry. Here’s the long version.

http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/12/11/the-age-of-pyramids-and-the-power-of-illusion/

a capella on December 12, 2008 at 11:35 AM

Please, let not this place become like LGF, where select lizards jump all over people for being unPC, because their sensibilities were offended and shout racist, bigot, nazi go home. Left the left do that crap.

keep the change on December 12, 2008 at 11:36 AM

a capella on December 12, 2008 at 11:35 AM

Thanks.

Spirit of 1776 on December 12, 2008 at 11:38 AM

Not to be a wet blanket in all the snarky festivities, but: Obama is the President Elect, and some of us, many of us, let that happen. We get to watch, now, and be snarky. I’m not at all convinced that was the wisest route to choose, nor the preferable sensible route……. Two years until the mid-terms, let’s get it together and get some serious people out there to do some serious representing for/of us in Washington next time, huh?

KendraWilder on December 12, 2008 at 11:40 AM

keep the change on December 12, 2008 at 11:36 AM

Let’s put the PC stuff aside for a moment and just think about Hot Air as a place for intelligent discourse. Please explain to us what is defensible, purely from an intellectual standpoint, about including speculations about a guy’s religious or ethnic background on a thread that is about his arrest for fraud.

Then, reflect for a minute about the history of the Jewish people in 20th century Europe.

Now tell me why it is a good idea for us to sit idly by when someone implies that being Jewish equates with being a crook.

Y-not on December 12, 2008 at 11:41 AM

a capella on December 12, 2008 at 11:35 AM

I thought this was a Ponzi not a pyramid scheme?

Am I wrong?

upinak on December 12, 2008 at 11:45 AM

Y-not on December 12, 2008 at 11:41 AM

I could answer your thread with an essay, but to do so would get me banned. Like Islam, certain topics are taboo.

keep the change on December 12, 2008 at 11:45 AM

“a stunning fraud that appears to be of epic proportions.”

Sorry. I didn’t realize this thread was about Socialist Security.

oldleprechaun on December 12, 2008 at 11:47 AM

Is he a Democrat?

DL13 on December 12, 2008 at 11:48 AM

I thought this was a Ponzi not a pyramid scheme?

Am I wrong?

upinak on December 12, 2008 at 11:45 AM

A Ponzi scheme is a subset of a pyramid scheme, from the horse’s mouth..erum as….assets….

sven10077 on December 12, 2008 at 11:49 AM

Now why wouldn’t you trust him with your money? He looks so honest.

Greed is blind. Anybody who falls for a Ponzi scheme deserves what he gets.

Literally the FIRST thing every fund manager (including, I’m sure, Mr. Madoff) tells every investor is: “Past performance is no indication of future results.”

And the SECOND thing every fund manager says is: “In the last ten years, this fund has averaged a 20% return on investment so, well, the conclusion is obvious…”

They’re all con men. The distinction between the average fund manager and people like Milken and this guy is not a difference of morality, but only of skill. Some are hacks; some are good enough grifters to get rich at it; and a rare few are so spectacularly successful that they eventually get caught.

logis on December 12, 2008 at 11:50 AM

I could answer your thread with an essay, but to do so would get me banned. Like Islam, certain topics are taboo.

keep the change on December 12, 2008 at 11:45 AM

It’s taboo to explain how posting based on speculation isn’t sloppy intellectually?

It’s taboo to explain why it’s not intellectually lazy to imply something is relevant without providing any factual basis for that assertion?

‘Seems to me that the first half of my question to you is just Logic 101.

In light of the Christmas season, I’ll keep my speculation about the root cause of your intellectual laziness and obfuscation to myself.

Y-not on December 12, 2008 at 11:51 AM

Is he a Democrat?

DL13 on December 12, 2008 at 11:48 AM

Yes. Major donor.

Y-not on December 12, 2008 at 11:52 AM

Biggest fraud in US history, not by a 1,000 orders of magnitude.
That accomplishment belongs to all that have supported Social Security and Medicare.

Amendment X on December 12, 2008 at 11:53 AM

Please, let not this place become like LGF, where select lizards jump all over people for being unPC, because their sensibilities were offended and shout racist, bigot, nazi go home. Left the left do that crap.

keep the change on December 12, 2008 at 11:36 AM

It’s not about “political correctness.” It’s about judging people by what they do, not what they are. Individual vs. collective, if you will.

I oppose collectivism in all its permutations because it denigrates and reduces the responsibility of individuals. That includes racism, anti-Semitism, sexism and all the rest. From both sides.

My strongest political belief is in individual liberty. Yours may be otherwise. None of this “guilt by identity” has any place in a worldview based fundamentally as mine is. I want no part of it and hope HotAir will not become a place that encourages it.

Gilda on December 12, 2008 at 11:57 AM

The absolute arrogance and audacity of these guys never fails to amaze me. With the way things are right now, this guy still insisted on playing his parlor games here.

Burn him!

pilamaye on December 12, 2008 at 11:59 AM

It’s taboo to explain why it’s not intellectually lazy to imply something is relevant without providing any factual basis for that assertion?

Oh, I could provide you with my argument, but what good would it do me to make it to you, since I’m sure you have heard the same argument before. Certain things can not be said in public. It’s just that simple. It’s frustrating I know, because PC mentality make such a discussion between me and you impossible without negative consequences for me.

keep the change on December 12, 2008 at 11:59 AM

Where some of the money went.

Where some more of the money went.

And a bit more.

These guys were MAJOR Democratic supporters. Friends of Hillary, Friends of Schumer, and the big clincher, $100,000 to the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee over the past four years?

Never has so little bought so much.

unclesmrgol on December 12, 2008 at 12:06 PM

Get the ROPE….

DL13 on December 12, 2008 at 12:08 PM

yeah but anti-arab anti-Muslim and anti-hispanic crap is all good, right?

You open the door to some bigots and you’re bound to let in others. Just look at Robert Spencer.

mofo on December 12, 2008 at 11:20 AM

Are you saying that Robert Spencer is an anti-Arab, anti-Muslim bigot? And if so, what can you offer to support that claim?

awake on December 12, 2008 at 12:15 PM

Please, let not this place become like LGF, where select lizards jump all over people for being unPC, because their sensibilities were offended and shout racist, bigot, nazi go home. Left the left do that crap.

keep the change on December 12, 2008 at 11:36 AM

I could answer your thread with an essay, but to do so would get me banned. Like Islam, certain topics are taboo.

keep the change on December 12, 2008 at 11:45 AM

Looking at your posts about you being robbed of your “right” to rant about every non-WASP group out there; at least I know for future a reference to never take anything you say on HA seriously.

Lance Murdock on December 12, 2008 at 12:15 PM

He looks like Joe Wilson + 20 years.

MayBee on December 12, 2008 at 12:17 PM

Lance Murdock on December 12, 2008 at 12:15 PM

Me thinks you are taking things personally. But since I don’t know you, and you don’t know me, what possible significance should your opinion of me have? Or for that matter, what possible interest could you have in my opinions? I can’t think of any. Yet, you seem quite concerned with my views on this topic.

keep the change on December 12, 2008 at 12:21 PM

yeah but anti-arab anti-Muslim and anti-hispanic crap is all good, right?

mofo on December 12, 2008 at 11:20 AM

No, but those labels get thrown around indiscriminately by some posters. I’ve been accused of being anti-hispanic more than once, because I oppose illegal immigration and the policies and attitudes that encourage and support it. I also choose to live in a state with a large population of American citizens of Mexican heritage, more than a few of whom are my friends and neighbors. I am no more “anti-hispanic” than I am “anti-Irish” or “anti-Chinese” because of the tens of thousands of Irish and Chinese citizens who are living in the U.S. illegally, and for whom I also oppose any form of amnesty. But it doesn’t matter to some posters here, who choose to label as “racists” or “bigots” anyone whose views differ from their own. It’s a classic and much-overused ploy of Liberal Lefties, who frequently trot it out to avoid having to debate a poster on the substantive issues. So much easier just to call someone a name, and pretend to be morally superior. But it’s quite tedious for the rest of us.

AZCoyote on December 12, 2008 at 12:22 PM

mylegsareswollen on December 12, 2008 at 10:53 AM

Lets see.
We have here a case where a man ripped of $50B, right under the nose of govt regulators.
From this you conclude that only govt regulators are capable of catching crooks.

Right

MarkTheGreat on December 12, 2008 at 12:29 PM

Ten bucks says he sent the majority of his funds to Dubai and we all know they are the modern day Casablanca/Swiss Accounts.

Tim Burton on December 12, 2008 at 12:32 PM

Maybe, but I wouldn’t overlook the Y2K pandemic fraud foisted upon us by government and the hardware/software companies (Larry Ellison, Scott McNealy, Bill Gates, et. al.)

BadDogMN on December 12, 2008 at 11:01 AM

The only reason Y2K wasn’t a problem was because billions were spent retrofitting old code. I was involved in several projects repairing old code. Any of them would have caused major financial difficulties for my company had they not been fixed.

Was the problem over hyped? Perhaps.
Was there a serious problem that needed to be addressed? Definitely.

MarkTheGreat on December 12, 2008 at 12:32 PM

When Jews start beheading people for their religious beliefs, or treat women as property, or support terrorism, then being anti-Jew will be the same as being anti-Muslim. Obviously not all Muslims do those things, so we have to be careful not to pre-judge individual Muslims, but that is the religion.

pedestrian on December 12, 2008 at 12:34 PM

I thought this was a Ponzi not a pyramid scheme?

Am I wrong?

upinak on December 12, 2008 at 11:45 AM

Two names for the same thing.

MarkTheGreat on December 12, 2008 at 12:38 PM

If investors lost $50 Billion, where did it all go? You can blow a few hundred mil on cars, yachts, and homes. The stock market has lost about a third, so where’s the rest? Under the mattress?

Mark30339 on December 12, 2008 at 10:52 AM

This was no-doubt highly leveraged. At 10-to-1 leverage, a 10% loss in underlying value results in a 100% loss of capital.

If it was leveraged at only 3-to-1, the “third” loss of the stock market would wipe it all out.

VekTor on December 12, 2008 at 12:38 PM

keep the change on December 12, 2008 at 12:21 PM

My problem with your comments is that you want to view the world through your narrow vision of what you see through the media or what you read on the internet. The world is a far more complicated place and it seems you rather just throw certain groups of people into stereotypes rather than discuss the problem.

I don’t agree with Charles’ massive banning of people. But neither am I surprised that he got tried of defending nutcases either. Did he go overboard, yeah, but it’s his website and if he wants to make his website suck that’s his choice.

But it is disconcerting when I see people here on this site start blaming whole groups of people for certain things. It annoys me when people on this site saying that all Jews are evil commie/capitalistic democrats, Muslims are all mass murders or Hispanics are all lazy alien invaders trying to take over our country. These are lazy arguments and pathetic too. That’s why I stay away from Allah’s ‘redmeat’ topics b/c people tend to go overboard and I don’t want to see it. But I will confront people on this site when I do see it, especially when Allah or Ed post a topic which has nothing to do religion or ethnicity.

Lance Murdock on December 12, 2008 at 12:50 PM

If investors lost $50 Billion, where did it all go?

The money was paid out to the investors who already withdrew their funds. The investors still in get nothing back. While the scam was running, Madoff could have taken out as much as he wanted, but the more he took out the sooner he would be caught.

His top associates claim they didn’t know about it until the very end. BS.

pedestrian on December 12, 2008 at 12:51 PM

If we eliminated all slanderous comments toward Jews, Christians, Muslims, Atheists, blacks, whites, liberals and conservatives…

Then the Internet would then consist of absolutely nothing but porn.

logis on December 12, 2008 at 12:53 PM

logis on December 12, 2008 at 12:53 PM

har-har

Lance Murdock on December 12, 2008 at 12:56 PM

We have here a case where a man ripped of $50B, right under the nose of govt regulators.
From this you conclude that only govt regulators are capable of catching crooks.
MarkTheGreat on December 12, 2008 at 12:29 PM

And what did he finally have to do to FINALLY get the Fed’s attention?

…Call a staff meeting and give a full confession to a crowd of people.

The guy’s seventy years old. Who wants to be he’s terminal, and he just wanted to take all the heat so the friends and family members he made into billionaires will get off scott free?

logis on December 12, 2008 at 1:02 PM

If he was an elected Dem, this would get him a committee chair. If he was also a rainbow waving Gay, it would mean a VP slot.

Isn’t calamari translated to squid?

Ponzi da Squid, “AAAAAA”

Hening on December 12, 2008 at 1:16 PM

Tip of the iceberg…this won’t be the only one of these, maybe the largest, but this will be a bloodbath…the “mattress” investment looks pretty good right about now.

right2bright on December 12, 2008 at 1:19 PM

The guy’s seventy years old. Who wants to be he’s terminal, and he just wanted to take all the heat so the friends and family members he made into billionaires will get off scott free?

logis on December 12, 2008 at 1:02 PM

Excellent point, all his 50B is dispersed to his relatives who will live like royalties…
The only fair way is to backtrack and find out where every penny went, and take if from them…that was stolen goods and should be returned to the owner.

right2bright on December 12, 2008 at 1:21 PM

I agree.

As for this idiot’s “point” about who Madoff is and what his associations are, it seems to me that rather than speculating — and including his ethnic/religious heritage in his speculation as if that was relevant — jarhead (whom I hope to heaven is not a Marine) could do some ferkin’ research and confirm what I just did. He’s a major Dem donor.

But it’s easier to just speculate that the guy is a joooo and imply that that somehow explains his corruption.

If you’re going to be a bigot, at least put some effort into.

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life. — Dean Vernon Wormer

Y-not on December 12, 2008 at 11:30 AM

Hahaha – pot calling kettle black. First you say hey! Just because he is Jewish doesn’t mean he is bad. Then you say hey! He donates to the Democrats so he must be evil.

Hell – a majority of jews prefer the Democrats – they must be the evil too then!

Moron.

A Axe on December 12, 2008 at 1:32 PM

$50 Billion, that number rings a bell, that’s the same number given to the “Oil for Food” scandal. That’s big.

kirkill on December 12, 2008 at 1:46 PM

My problem with your comments is that you want to view the world through your narrow vision of what you see through the media or what you read on the internet.

Not at all. My view of the world has been shaped over time despite a media that tries to whitewash everybody but Christians. That’s all I got going to school. It is all I read picking up the paper, it is all I see watching TV, going to the movies. The media has done its best to make me see things their way. But reality kept interfering. So I had to make allowances for it. I had to see through that propaganda. Most people buy it. Some see through it. We were all told that there is no truth in stereotypes. But through observing the world around me for 40 years, I began to see bit by bit, that there is indeed much truth to them.

keep the change on December 12, 2008 at 1:53 PM

This is why I have disagreed with Michelle’s approach of no government intervention.

I did not (and do not) support the bailouts, but I do think that the private sector f’d over investors and recourse for justice involves government – investigation, prosecution of fraud like this, etc.

Spirit of 1776 on December 12, 2008 at 10:40 AM

Please don’t say ridiculous things.

The political grouping that believes there should be no governmental involvement in prosecution of crimes is not called “conservatism,” it’s called “anarchism.” They are not the same thing. They’re not even cousins. Please get a clue.

Nobody on either side of the political maintains — publicly, anyway — that the government should not investigate and prosecute crimes. Certainly Ms. Malkin does not maintain that.

Of course, the Democrats consistently try to get the government to overlook crimes committed by Democrats, but that’s not true anarchism, that’s just garden-variety corruption. How else would Chris Dodd and Barney Frank still be holding office?

philwynk on December 12, 2008 at 2:15 PM

Hell – a majority of jews prefer the Democrats – they must be the evil too then!
A Axe on December 12, 2008 at 1:32 PM

The same thing applies to black people, actors, journalists, and union members. It’s called a “generalization.” And a knee-jerk reaction to a generalization is tantamount to the belief that all generalizations are evil.

And when you think about it, that may well be the silliest meme in the history of human thought.

logis on December 12, 2008 at 2:23 PM

Hell – a majority of jews prefer the Democrats – they must be the evil too then!

Moron.

A Axe on December 12, 2008 at 1:32 PM

Too many Jews support the Dems, and too many Dems and Jews support far left causes. As a Jew I feel ashamed about that, and am largely estranged from my own family and community over it. Other groups, like African Americans, as an example, are also guilty of excessive support of politicians that are radical. But I don’t think either they, or Jews, are out of bounds for criticism.

For the record, I’m referring to Jews in the cultural sense and not the religious sense. The religion is fine. Most Am Jews are completely secular and know next to nothing about Judaism the religion, much less practice it. That’s part of the problem.

JiangxiDad on December 12, 2008 at 2:43 PM

Most Am Jews are completely secular and know next to nothing about Judaism the religion, much less practice it. That’s part of the problem.
JiangxiDad on December 12, 2008 at 2:43 PM

If you take away the religion, then isn’t Judaism JUST racism?

When people form into cultural and political blocks based solely on their genetic heritage, then why am *I* the one who’s being “racist” for criticizing them?

logis on December 12, 2008 at 2:59 PM

If you take away the religion, then isn’t Judaism JUST racism?

When people form into cultural and political blocks based solely on their genetic heritage, then why am *I* the one who’s being “racist” for criticizing them?

logis on December 12, 2008 at 2:59 PM

I don’t know if someone called you a racist. I scrolled back but didn’t see that comment. I wasn’t. I was only trying to say that I don’t think the majority of Jewish Americans are distinguishing themselves in the culture and political wars, and as a Jew, I’m willing to admit that. I am embarrassed about the high percentage of Jews who voted for Obama.
As for whether Jews are racists because they’re not particularly religious, that’s silly. They’re culturally Jewish by virtue of certain holidays, foods, expressions, etc. There’s no law against that, and it’s not racism. You wanna be Jewish, just join.

JiangxiDad on December 12, 2008 at 3:29 PM

I’m married to a Jew. My daughter is part Jewish. My brother in law is Jewish.

Is it inappropriate to note that Jews are disproportionately liberal. That they are disproportionately represented in certain fields. That they tend to be clannish and hold certain views? If so, then my wife, brother in law and friends would all hate me because I point out these facts all the time.

There are differences between groups. Sorry, but that’s a fact. That being said, however, my wife is as hard core a conservative as there is.

Charles Martel on December 12, 2008 at 4:20 PM

Hey buddy lets lay off the anti-Semitic tirades. IF you want to blame the Jooooos for every world ill why don’t you go visit your pals at the National Vanguard.

A$$hole.

Lance Murdock on December 12, 2008 at 10:44 AM

Up yours, buttboy. There was nothing anti-semitic in that remark at all…just stating the obvious. My wife is Jewish and most of my friends are Jewish. So kiss my goyisha ass.

Jarhead68 on December 12, 2008 at 5:07 PM

his site continues to degenerate with idiots like Jarhead68, MB4 allowed to post the most vile racist and anti-semitic stuff

mainmann on December 12, 2008 at 10:53 AM

Uh, what was vile and racist about stating the obvious? Note the emphasis on the word DEMOCRAT, you idiot. I have a Jewish wife and Jewish friends. Can you state the same? I don’t hate Jews, I hate democRATS. You’re retarded, I suspect.

Jarhead68 on December 12, 2008 at 5:10 PM

This guy is not a politician. That is what is interesting. This is the private sector we are talking about. Time and again I hear how much more honest real private enterprise is and then I hear about something like this and I have to wonder.

Terrye on December 12, 2008 at 5:17 PM

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