In case you haven’t been paying attention, God is the leading cause of death around the world. Always has been and sadly always will be.

dk on December 11, 2008 at 11:55 PM

Since we’re going back in time, you seem to be forgetting all of the killing done by God himself. Heck, you don’t even have to get out of Genesis to see that many more people died at the hands or command of God than Hitler, Pol Pot and any other human you can think of was responsible for. But let me guess, God’s killing don’t count, right?

dk on December 12, 2008 at 12:35 PM

First, a minor point, because of the exponential growth of population, I’d say it could be shown that even the great flood killed less people than abortion alone.
Second, and more important, you say that sadly God will always be the leading cause of death. To make your argument, you indicate you believe the Old Testament, which would indicate that you believe what it says about God. God is not the author of death, but the author of life. He created life. Death was not his original plan. Back in the days of the flood,

the earth was evil in God’s eyes and full of violent ways.
And God, looking on the earth, saw that it was evil: for the way of all flesh had become evil on the earth. Genesis 6:11-12

And yes, the time is coming when another great God’s judgment is coming. And yes, at that time He will be the leading cause of death.

Matthew 24:37 and as the days of Noah — so shall be also the presence of the Son of Man;
Matthew 24:38 for as they were, in the days before the flood, eating, and drinking, marrying, and giving in marriage, till the day Noah entered into the ark,39  And they had no care till the waters came and took them all away; so will be the coming of the Son of man.

Revelations tells us that more than 1/3 of men will die in the last days.
So I see your point and it is sad. (But God is not the culprit here. He is not wanting that any should perish, but all come to repentence. (2 Peter 2:9). Man chooses death over life, chooses to be separate from God, chooses to get outside his protection and loving arms, hateful that they can’t “Do what thou wilt.” (the Satanist creed).
I guess that’s the whole point: puny men decide they can flaunt their violence and evil, and woe be God if he decides to interfere. So with this situation in publicizing and promoting this assisted suicide. But God is still God and even if men don’t believe Him or in Him, He will still get the last word. I’d rather live in a world that God ultimately controls for good, than a world that man has the last say.

Legally and politically, I think assisted suicide should be a state issue. The federal government needs to butt out.

Again, the same argument could be made for abortion: no one imagined in 1973 that the right to “choose” would lead to born alive babies being abandoned to die alone in some room in a hospital; or what about “partial birth abortion”? Was that procedure invisioned by original proponents of abortion? No. Yet here we are…

Never say never.

I understand that humans intervene out of a sense of mercy, but do animals comprehend mercy? When you stick a needle in the vein of an animal, does it know it’s about to never wake up again? Of course not. That’s why the analogy I pointed out is flawed.

That our mercy may alleviate their pain is unknown to the animal, it is more for the benefit of the human owner than the animal. Most animals are scared to death of the vet – are you really easing suffering, or creating massive anxiety in the animal in it’s last moments?

PAS is also not Euthanasia. They are completely different. One does not lead to the other. No organization of merit here in the US advocates for euthanasia for humans.

Cat – animals do comprehend suffering, and sometimes if left to their own will will “go off & die” in a place of safety to avoid further suffering at the talons of vulture. Humans intervene out of mercy. Allowing them to die in our arms with their pain at ease is as much for them is it is for us, just as the relationship in life has been mutual.

Is there an argument against PAS that is on the merit of PAS? Yes – the example of 12th monkey’s grandfather who overcame a terminal diagnosis to 20 years beyond his expected life… but what if we had a PAS protocol in our system? Wouldn’t it have given him a chance to seek counseling after being allowed to openly speak of his desire to die. A board that could have evaluated his situation and maybe came to a different conclusion or protocols than his oncologist. Our medical advancements have contributed to the great suffering experienced by those in the latter stages of their life. Shouldn’t those advancements also include compassion and truly embrace to do no harm?

Mark Garnett on December 12, 2008 at 11:15 AM

How exactly can God bless a man who killed himself? I

I take you at your word Mark, but you admit the contradiction.

You say you love God and have God in your life, yet you may have allowed your own mother to kill herself, forever alienatin her soul from God?

Frankly, your post seems a bit selfish – it was the worst two years of your life, would you have wanted your mom to end her own life if able, you wouldn’t assist anyone but would allow them to kill themselves…that last part seems a bit cowardly to me.

Seems to me that the 20th century was perhaps the deadliest as far as wars are concerned.

Christian Conservative on December 12, 2008 at 12:30 AM

Since we’re going back in time, you seem to be forgetting all of the killing done by God himself. Heck, you don’t even have to get out of Genesis to see that many more people died at the hands or command of God than Hitler, Pol Pot and any other human you can think of was responsible for. But let me guess, God’s killing don’t count, right?

I don’t mean to sound like I’m beating up on you but I didn’t address this in my previous comment…

The reason I think your dogs/cats/ anlogy is faulty is that animals have no rational faculties – not like humans do. Animals can indeed feel pain, but do they comprehend suffering? No. Humans attach that emotion to the animals.
An animal will carry on and “suffer” through life until they drop dead, unless humans intervene on their behalf.

Ask yourself this: When an animal is euthanised, do they “want” to die? How do you know? You don’t; Man projects what he believes is in the animals best interests, the animal could care less either way – they are an animal and lack the ability to reason. So who is the euthanasia really for? The animal or the owner?

Again, not beating up on you just relating my thoughts…

Our experience with abortion is instructive when considering the casualness with which many people consider abortion.

When it was legalized abortion wasn’t meant to be an easy way to correct an oversight to properly use contraception.

What was once supposed to be rare and infrequent has evolved into a procedure as common as Lasik – and cheaper.

That’s why I fear any form or Physician Assisted Suicide and Euthanasia.

I become very, VERY nervous when I contemplate the government, state or federal, getting involved with the process of dying.

The ultimate, (to me) Nanny state power is euthanasia.
Euthanasia, legalized in Belgium in 2002, although it had been accepted in practice since at least the early 90’s.

“A number of quantitative studies of the rate and major characteristics of these practices have been conducted in 1990, 1995 and 2001. These have demonstrated a disturbingly high incidence of euthanasia being carried out without the patient’s explicit request and an equally disturbing failure by medical professionals to report euthanasia cases to the proper regulatory authority.”(Emphasis added)

As originally contemplated, doctor assisted suicide was supposed to be a rare event to ease the unrelenting pain and suffering of a person who was not going to get better.

What its become in Europe is a way to knock off granny before she becomes a burden on the family or to allow the kids to get their hands on granny’s estate a little sooner, possibly before illness eats up the inheritance.

And, more and more, it appears granny’s not being consulted on the subject.

As I said in the beginning, it a conflicted and conflicting subject clouded by more emotion than rational discussion, but as for me, today, I’d rather take my chances with death without the state jiggering the odds; it’s a crooked deck anyway and we’re all going to lose. How long you make your stake last is all that matters

My fears aren’t theoretical.

We – well, many of us- are conflicted on this subject which is why it remains a hot button topic; its controversial.

Would I like to be able to pull the pin when I’m in pain and terminal? Probably, I don’t know, I’ll call you and let you know.

But I damn well know I don’t want my kids to have a hold of the same pin (sorry Jimmy and Scotty, no offense)

I believe the opposite, these people who are participating in this “assisted suicide” may indeed not be afraid of death…

they are afraid of LIFE.

Humans are not dogs and cats, I think the analogy is faulty.

This is another way for people to “make it easier” on themselves (or the family), and not do what needs to be done to fight for every breath – painful or otherwise.

Dying is easy, living is what’s hard.

That is exactly the point – in this case it isn’t time, these people are killing themselves (or having other people do it for them…)

Lingering and suffering is part of living, why shouldn’t it also be part of dying?

How far does this new “choice” go? Now we are dealing with a terminally ill patient. In 20 years what will be the justification? I can’t pay my bills, so I’ll just end it all so I don’t have to deal with the financial “pain”?

Dignity? The dignity I carry with me throughout my life and into my death is not based on how clean my bedsheets are when I go to meet my maker – the “dying with dignity” argument to me is a cop out.

I believe life is to be lived – through the good and the bad. Some people’s lives end in peace and tranquility, others in suffering and pain – that is how life is. People experience up’s and downs throughout their life, what is so hard to accept that the end of life is the same?

If your life does not belong to you, to whom does it belong?

Would rolling my bed into the backyard for a last view of the sunset and leaving me there overnight to die of exposure be ok? Is that assisted suicide?

I got no problem with euthanasia despite my Catholic upbringing. When it is time, it is time, no sense lingering and suffering.

May God have mercy on us all.

I do take note of your example of abortion, and believe that it should be a rarity – not simply as a quick fix for irresponsible behaviour. But I don’t buy into the argument that because there is the possibility for abuse, that something should not be done, when there is, from my perspective, a very valid argument for permitting it, with tight regulation to prevent potential abuse. As it is kind of hard for me to envision a ‘hurry up and kill someone’ scenario, time constraints are a possibility – if someone is just depressed and wants a way out, making them wait a week, or a month, and attend counseling or other intervention treatment would probably dissuade 95=99% of the ‘fashionable’ requests. And for the 1-5% hell bent on checking out, well, they’re probably going to take care of it themselves without saying boo to anyone beforehand.