Bailout cloture vote: Republicans hold the line
posted at 11:12 pm on December 11, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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The Senate just held its long-awaited vote on cloture for the auto bailout bill, and it failed 52-35. Good.
A few surprises: The Maine Sisters voted to end debate and not to support the filibuster, but Montana’s two Democrats, Max Baucus and Jon Tester, sided with the Republican filibuster. Norm Coleman voted to support the filibuster, which surprises me just a little. Richard Lugar voted in favor of the bailout. Bob Corker, who tried to fashion a last-minute deal, voted in support of the filibuster. Sam Brownback, George Voinovich, Arlen Specter, and John Warner all voted for the bailout. I knew it had failed when Harry Reid voted no, a parliamentary maneuver which allows him to reopen the vote.
Harry Reid says he won’t be offering any more business in this session of Congress, which means this bailout died a well-deserved death. He urged President Bush to use his executive powers to offer the bailout from TARP funds, and as early as tomorrow, with any conditions he sees fit. I’d bet we’ll see just that within 24 hours.
In the meantime, congratulations to Senate Republicans. Most of them, and a few Democrats like Baucus and Tester and Blanche Lincoln, must have read their Robert Byrd Pocket Constitutions and realized that the federal government has no role in bailing out private enterprise with taxpayer money.
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It sucks too lose so much, but then why has the UAW been gouging their employers if that is where the retirees’ benefits are coming from. Address your complaints to the union leaders, not to us taxpayers.
pedestrian on December 12, 2008 at 2:15 AM
Hallelujah and Amen, preach on!
sdun1 on December 12, 2008 at 2:15 AM
I’m honestly not smart enough to tell you whether or not to vote for this bill. My job has nothing to do with spending 12 hours a day on issues like this… it has to do with 12 hours dealing with other issues.
I really wish I could trust these 535 people to spend their 12 hours learning what is or isn’t right. About the only reason I follow politics is that I don’t trust these people. I wish their job actually entailed them learning about issues, and helping us understand why they feel the way they do.
But, alas. I’m not going to hear a peep from my state’s senators in our local newspaper. I’m going to hear from Reid and McConnell, and my guys get to show up and press a button.
askheaves on December 12, 2008 at 2:24 AM
As a long time conservative I can smell a liberal troll a mile away. REAL long time conservatives don’t peddle “blue collar-to-white collar jobs” class warfare; we don’t cave to the UAW’s extortion tactics that hold up “families” to shield the unions from economic reality, and we sure as hell don’t find resisting government intervention to rescue bad business practices “maddening”.
As a real long time Conservative, I am also well enough informed to know that bankruptcy is not the same as “going under”. For more information see “airlines”.
Who the hell do you think you’re fooling?
Kane Rogers on December 12, 2008 at 3:22 AM
This will be an inverse Blago from the UAW “We gave those F***ers 400mill , and we got nothing , NOTHING!!”
the_nile on December 12, 2008 at 3:36 AM
In my haste I obviously misconstrued the “bluecollar to white collar” part of Tobias’ comment and acknowledge the error. That doesn’t affect my central argument. No true conservative can be unhappy with tonight’s results in the Senate; protecting the families for which Tobias professes such concern by bailing out the automakers in the short term would leave countless more families exposed to the resulting and much worse consequences in the longer term.
It’s called biting the bullet. Been there, done that.
Kane Rogers on December 12, 2008 at 3:37 AM
Good news: Warner ain’t comming back! (yeah, yeah, a Dem took his seat, big deal. When they crash the ecconomy we’ll get it back elsewhere.)
You expect this sort of thing by guys like Lugar, Voinovich, Specter and the Maine Sisters, but Brownback kinda surprises me.
SuperCool on December 12, 2008 at 4:27 AM
In the meantime, congratulations to no one, as the Senate republicans (so-called, and yes, small r) once again stuck their fingers in the wind and voted not their conscience but their perceived future.
I’m sure there are a few good men (and women) left in the Party, but I’m having a helluva time finding them.
They got it right this time, but where were they when the Republican Party was busy spending its way to doom?
hillbillyjim on December 12, 2008 at 4:58 AM
I could be a hellatious Republican Spend-O-Crat.
Problems with your infrastructure? Call me.
Can’t get people hired? Call me.
Trouble with your iron uptake? Call me.
And on and on and on and on and on. And on.
hillbillyjim on December 12, 2008 at 5:02 AM
Brownback?!
Thought he was a conservative.
Scratch him off that list.
iamse7en on December 12, 2008 at 5:43 AM
Doesn’t shock me that Lugar voted liberal again. He’s well past his freshness date and senility breeds liberalism.
SKYFOX on December 12, 2008 at 5:52 AM
Bush has to bail them out.
If there is No Bailout – and No Resulting Disaster – Is there any possible justification for the Bank Bailout?
So as cover for the bad decision on the bank bailout – Bush has to bailout the Detroit Shrinking 3.
huckleberryfriend on December 12, 2008 at 6:04 AM
Let me start by saying that I am not in favor of a bailout of the auto companies in the form that it is currently being discussed. I am of the mind that the auto companies may need bankruptcy proceedings to shed the lousy retirement deals they had with the unions. But I would support a bailout if the option is to see the auto companies go under completely.
The auto companies represent the majority of the large scale manufacturing left in America. They are a strategic resource that is needed in time of war. Just look at the role they played in WWII to see my point. We cannot afford to lose this manufacturing ability as a nation.
I also have a SERIOUS problem with how the financial institutions are getting a free ride with damn little accountability, while the auto companies are being asked to jump through fiery hoops for only a small fraction of the money. This is BS politics at its finest.
Hawthorne on December 12, 2008 at 6:12 AM
I just have one question for you, smart guy.
How come Ford doesn’t need or want a bailout?
fossten on December 12, 2008 at 6:13 AM
Headline this morning: World Markets Plunge. Goody. I think I will go buy some champagne and celebrate. Yippee!!!!
Terrye on December 12, 2008 at 6:36 AM
With all of this talk of a government bailout of the auto industry, I was thinking to myself that it is too bad that there isn’t some legal procedure available to the corporations in which they could say that they can’t pay their bills so they ask a court for protection while they reorganize. The corporation could then sell some stuff off to pay creditors, get rid of onerous union contracts, shed portions of it business that weren’t profitable, recreate itself around a profitable core of its current business…
Nah, what a terrible idea. No wonder no one in the long history of trade has ever thought of such a thing.
/sarc off.
turfmann on December 12, 2008 at 6:42 AM
Only if you ignore Caterpillar, Deere, Melroe, New Holland, Terex, Case, Ingersoll-Rand, and others.
Dasher on December 12, 2008 at 6:51 AM
Why aren’t the Republicans on every news program this morning selling their case?
If the UAW was the cause of the negotiations failing, then lay it out there. Don’t let the Democrats get out there first and blame the Republicans for the failed bailout.
Won’t they ever learn this is as much a PR battle as a political one?
huckleberryfriend on December 12, 2008 at 6:55 AM
Dasher:
Have you looked at the stock value of Caterpillar lately? I bet it is down even more by the end of the day. I remember when International Harvester went under. I did not believe a company like that could actually fold, but they did.
I think people are whistling past the grave yard here. Obama won with 66 million votes, and he supports this. Democrats picked up seats and most of them support it. They will be taking power in January. By then people might well be ready for something like this.
I think the right sometimes overestimates the importance of the loud people. They thought that illegal immigration would be a big help to them because of all the people screaming at their Senators, but when it came to vote in 2006 and 2008, all that noise did not lead to votes. I am afraid this might be the same thing.
Too bad they can not come up with a compromise like the one Corker {R} from Tennessee was talking about. Otherwise all sorts of companies in the midwest will lose orders with the Big 3 soon and they too will begin laying people off. Unless there is something to take the place of GM and right now I do not see that happening.
Terrye on December 12, 2008 at 6:59 AM
Fossten, Are you insinuating that Ford is an exception?
Ford is on life support, too. We are talking about monthsof possible existance. And why? They sold Jaguar, Land Rover and everything else they could move and mortgaged the rest. And we are on an egg timer for them?
Kane Rogers — Wow. The problem is that the foreign companies on our shores don’t have the UAW — but their employees also don’t have fringes. And who do you think is going to be paying for their fringes? The other thing that bothers me is the fact that this nation does NOT seem to recognize what will happen to the (dumb) American worker if everything moves to Asia. Ford was giving them the rope to hang Ford and other auto makers when it sold whole brands to Asians.
Finally, I loved MSNBC just selling the class warfare for all it is worth. They should get sick with the mix of socialism and Democratic ring kissing they serve up every AM. Hello!!!! We bailed out the banks ’cause if we didn’t the financial system would collapse. Rent an economist — you LOOK LIKE IDIOTS, MSNBC!!!
Yew, but what economist would they get?
IlikedAUH2O on December 12, 2008 at 7:00 AM
huckleberryfriend:
No, they won’t. They will be too busy saying it is all a crock, these guys don’t need the money, it won’t hurt the economy, etc and that way when things get really nasty they can get all the credit for that too.
Terrye on December 12, 2008 at 7:01 AM
Have the Big Oil companies bail them out….
albill on December 12, 2008 at 7:02 AM
Republicans always lose PR battles. That is why the idiot Democrats can stay competitive.
IlikedAUH2O on December 12, 2008 at 7:03 AM
Republicans always lose PR battles. That is why the idiot Democrats can stay competitive.
IlikedAUH2O on December 12, 2008 at 7:03 AM
The federal gov’t has no Constitutional role in education, entertainment, art, or health care, but billions of tax dollars are wasted therein yearly.
jgapinoy on December 12, 2008 at 7:14 AM
No. I was pointing out the absurdity of his comment.
The Big 3 are in this situation because of their own mishandling. Toyota isn’t in the red. But giving them a bailout isn’t going to fix anything. Ford is, at least, trying to do it right, through mechanisms already available.
fossten on December 12, 2008 at 7:16 AM
How about Mack, Freightliner, Kenworth, Peterbilt, and others. Saying that GM, Ford, and Chrysler are our last manufacturing is over statement of there importance.
I do remember International Harvester, my dad worked there years ago, as well as at American Hoist which is also gone. But that is the process in America, the strong survive, and the weak die, or restructure. Which is what GM and Chrysler for sure need to do. Ford is on a little better footing and I hope they can remain competitive.
Dasher on December 12, 2008 at 7:21 AM
quite the contrary ****-pirate what we OUGHT to do is just let the UAW be in charge of the printing presses for treasury….
Fact is the UAW has known it has made unrealistic demands wage and benny wise since the ’70s.
This fantasy that 78 bucks is not enough is what is wrong.
32*40=1280
1280*52=66560
That’s pretty close to Bambi and Scranton Joe’s definition of “evil rich”……throw in overtime and bonuses and they are likely over the line.
sven10077 on December 12, 2008 at 7:24 AM
Let’s enjoy this small victory for capitalism while it last. Next year it all ends. With the ten or more “Lincoln Chafee’s” Repub senators, there will be no bill or big spending idea that won’t pass the Senate. On each bill it will be a different mix but the results will always be the same.
The moronic posters here, posing as conservatives, that love government interference will be pigs in the slop for the next eight years.
patrick neid on December 12, 2008 at 7:26 AM
GM is down 35% in Frankfurt
lodge on December 12, 2008 at 7:28 AM
If I’m reading Michelle’s Final roll call vote on the UAW bailout column correctly, 52 senators voted for the bailout with 4 Democrats voting no, including Reid (so he can bring it to the floor later) and 3 Democrats not voting.
I find it interesting that, if the 7 Democrats that voted no or did not vote, had voted yes, the total yays would have been 59. If Obama hadn’t resigned his senate seat, he could have cast the deciding yay vote and the bailout bill would have passed.
But, what am I thinking, Obama most likely would have voted “present”.
Xiphos on December 12, 2008 at 7:31 AM
we’ve lost that ability because you have the mule *UAW* dictating what direction and how far the company can go….also don’t fool yourself the Big Three decided to get out of the defense business…..
they are good little democrats my friend.
sven10077 on December 12, 2008 at 7:32 AM
He’ll be replaced by Dem Mark Warner. Not much difference really, except Mark is a real democrat as opposed to Mr Liz Taylor.
abcurtis on December 12, 2008 at 7:43 AM
“…the federal government has no role in bailing out out private enterprise with taxpayer money.”
That’s the bottom line for me too, especially when the bailout wouldn’t reduce the underlying problems, but only prolong them. The auto companies need to use Chapter 11 to restore business to a financially sustainable footing.
petefrt on December 12, 2008 at 7:49 AM
The fact that GM is above zero is the miracle. Why? When the bailout passes and it will, even in its current form, the equity dilution alone would probably over time put the stock under a dollar. The other fallacy is thinking this bailout is going to prevent layoffs. Once the restructuring starts I would imagine GM will be less than 1/2 its current size if it even survives. Smart money is wagering that any bailout is money down a rat hole.
The other insanity currently floated by the morons in Congress and their supporters even here, is the idea that they in their infinite wisdom are going to appoint a “Auto Czar” that will manage the business and rule over expenditures over $100 million.
You can’t make up stupidity like that. If that “Person” ever existed they would be running the companies now at about $50 million a year!
I don’t know who is dumber, Congress/Bush thinking they can run the auto industry or the people here that want to let them try. Yikes. God invented Chapter 11 so that stupid people would not get to run the machinery.
patrick neid on December 12, 2008 at 7:50 AM
Nice shooting, Kane. Love to see that Mozambique drill in action.
mr.blacksheep on December 12, 2008 at 7:55 AM
The arrogance/ignorance of some politicians is mind-boggling.
petefrt on December 12, 2008 at 7:58 AM
Just wait a minute:
They’ve done such a great job running the government they feel the need to expand that level of efficiency and expertise to all industries….
//sarc
sven10077 on December 12, 2008 at 8:04 AM
Let the UAW help the auto companies. They could use their pension fund to bail them out if they’re so committed. Or they could immediately help by reducing the auto makers’ wage cost by 50% to bring them in line with other, non-union auto manufacturers.
But when they say “the huge cost burden we put on the manufacturers is non-negotiable”, then we’re not talking about “assistance” or a “bail-out”, we’re talking welfare; welfare for people who do assembly-line work and get $100k/year for it.
Lost jobs? Well, the UAW has ensured that its members are the walking dead by making their jobs unsustainable. If they were twice as productive as the non-union workers, then they’d be worth it. But they aren’t. In fact, they are a huge ball-and-chain on productivity with restrictive work practices.
The best thing we could do for this country is let the auto makers fail and point to them as an abject lesson in “the cost of excess”. Maybe the rest of this country would wake up and start to understand that the concept of “a fair day’s work for a fair day’s pay” cuts both ways: your best chance of a sustainable fair day’s pay means you do a fair day’s work to get your day’s pay: a day’s pay that’s commensurate with the economic value-add of your day’s work,no more, no less.
mr.blacksheep on December 12, 2008 at 8:05 AM
As a Detroit resident, I say hallelujah.
Rollie on December 12, 2008 at 8:08 AM
But Bush has resisted this for months, saying it is not within the scope of the law (and he’s right). And if he’s just going to give them payroll and operating cash, which is all they want anyway, what meaningful conditions could he possibly attach to it.
It would just be a cash gift — that’s it.
BigD on December 12, 2008 at 8:09 AM
I can go for Chapter 11. I just don’t want the combination of conservative economics and liberal conservation putting my bottom in a Prius.
IlikedAUH2O on December 12, 2008 at 8:11 AM
Let ‘em burn.
Republicans who want to rebuild the party will keep their fingerprints off this crime scene.
If Obama and the other marxists want to do it, make them stick their own necks out. We need to know clearly and without ambiguity who is to be removed from office when the time comes.
jeff_from_mpls on December 12, 2008 at 8:15 AM
Well if the UAW isn’t willing to cut back on wages (something the CEOs pledged to do) then obviously the big 3 aren’t in such dire straits.
It can’t be that the UAW wants zero wages as opposed to 2/3 or 1/2 wages.
rbj on December 12, 2008 at 8:15 AM
It still doesn’t make sense to go through the government to get 15 billion and basically do a reorganization anyway. Although I realize they wouldn’t get the money, why not just go through the courts instead of Congress? I would not want those fools in Congress running my business, even in the form of a Car Czar. I would think that Chapter 11 would be a preferable choice.
Cindy Munford on December 12, 2008 at 8:20 AM
And your solution is to have the taxpayers pick up the tab?
These guys worked for a union that negotiated unsupportable contracts. If these guys had accepted more reasonable contracts both now and throughout there working lives there wouldn’t be a problem now.
These guys that you are crying about, caused this problem, now you feel that someone else should pay for it.
No thanks.
MarkTheGreat on December 12, 2008 at 8:24 AM
Sadly, this won’t go away until the likes of Dodd, Reid, Schumer and Frank go away.
wepeople on December 12, 2008 at 8:29 AM
You also have to ignore all of the auto companies who aren’t part of the Big three.
MarkTheGreat on December 12, 2008 at 8:34 AM
Perhaps this whole thing has been orchestrated by the UAW, forcing the CEOs to apply for a bailout. Going into Chapter Eleven would not suit the UAW at all, as does accepting any wage cuts.
If the Big Three filed for Chapter Eleven, the UAW would go on strike, rather than cooperate with any reorganization required. The CEOs know that this would kill the goose, stone dead.
Incidentally. the timing stinks to high heaven.
OldEnglish on December 12, 2008 at 8:37 AM
I agree. A freidn of mine in Louisiana who works for a UAW support staff (legal services) may well lose her job. She is a rock solid conservative but is enraged at David Vitter of Louisiana. She is in her 50’s and will most likely be out of work now.
Hilts on December 12, 2008 at 8:42 AM
The union has killed the goose that layed the golden egg…at least until the next congress. Now millions of innocent non-union workers will lose their jobs in retribution by the auto companies. See how big business always wins out over the little guy? This is why these super large banks are screwing us so bad even after gettting our money, they want more of it.
kanda on December 12, 2008 at 8:44 AM
Most companies retirement plans for health insurance are a supplement to Medicare. Even individual plans of that type cost only $100 / mo or less. Do the UAW have something that bypasses Medicare?
Dasher on December 12, 2008 at 8:53 AM
she is enraged at a man who had nothing to do with the decisions of the UAW or for that matter the Big3 in caving to the UAW deciding that I should not have to sacrifice my wealth, less by the way than the “average” member of her Union, to help them sustain their now non-market driven largesse?
Well you can tell her from an Ohioan with family in the sling on this as well….
“lie down with dogs wake up with fleas”….
me personally I blame Santa Hoffa….
sven10077 on December 12, 2008 at 8:54 AM
And what am I supposed to do about that other than put on violin music. Who is sending my wife money? She has been laid off since July as an advertising exec recruiter–30 years experience. When Ad revenues dropped firms cut back dramatically. There will be no work in her field for probably a couple of years.
So Tobias and Hilts I’ll forward my address and tell you where you can send money. This way you can really help! I can be your bailout!
patrick neid on December 12, 2008 at 8:54 AM
I guess all their hopes are pinned on W, which is the very definition of irony. Maybe while Mr. Obama is president the UAW can make sure the court system is favorably packed so that they are protected on all sides of any situation.
Cindy Munford on December 12, 2008 at 8:55 AM
Gee, Ed:
You left out the really juicy part of the story: That the price of approval for dissenting Rethuglians was nothing less than a UAW wage concession rider. Their price for support was nothing less than a rollback of UAW wages to match those of non-union autoworkers in the South.
Republicans have had it in for UAW workers all along, speciously claiming that they made $70 an hour (true only if you add in benefits and such for the most senior workers), but this last-minute grandstanding was appalling in its mean-spiritedness. Does this mean that Republican support for health-care reform will be contingent on the wages of unionized registered nurses being rolled back to those of non-union RNs?
sdm on December 12, 2008 at 8:55 AM
If this vote causes major damage to the economy – and odds are high at this point that it will – then the jabroni who brings up Sarah Palin or “small town values” when talking about bringing the Republicans back into power is gonna get hit in the face with a sockeye salmon.
This vote – right here, right now – is what may have guaranteed Obama a second term. If this vote kills one of the automakers – and it very well might – no one is going to trust an Republican in power again for a very, very long time.
Mal Carne on December 12, 2008 at 8:55 AM
I work in the student loan industry and although still employed since the Dem took over Congress our company has been shrinking at an alarming pace. Because there should be “free” college educations.
Cindy Munford on December 12, 2008 at 8:58 AM
Mal — GM is for practical purposes already dead, or hadn’t you noticed? This is about putting in a feeding tube.
You think a federal takeover is going to save them?
BigD on December 12, 2008 at 9:01 AM
sdm on December 12, 2008 at 8:55 AM
Mal Carne on December 12, 2008 at 8:55 AM
Explain why any industry should be bailed out. We have recessions all the time, why is it now the tax payer has to foot the bill on both ends. They not only live through the normal hardship of the “correction” but their taxes will be increase to supposedly stop what’s going to happen anyway. And the banks that received 350 trillion are sitting around with 600 billion cash on hand instead of the usual 5 to 10 billion. Why aren’t they lending it, it was “free” money anyway.
Cindy Munford on December 12, 2008 at 9:04 AM
Why do you feel that the union members should be protected from the consequences of their folly?
Why bring up nurses? If hospitals were asking for bailouts, I would demand that any worker share in the sacrifice.
I’m a worker, and I’m being told that I’m going to have to sacrifice my standard of living in order that union workers won’t have to sacrifice theirs.
Thanks, but no thanks.
MarkTheGreat on December 12, 2008 at 9:09 AM
what BS. this bailout is nothing but a gift to the corrupt UAW thugs. bailouts don’t work. why should my money be given to those fat-cat union thugs??
right4life on December 12, 2008 at 9:10 AM
And if the vote had passed, it wouldn’t matter whether Republicans were voted into office ever again or not.
We would have the govt running everything anyway.
MarkTheGreat on December 12, 2008 at 9:10 AM
Progress?
2000 yrs ago, three wise men sought to give gifts to King Jesus.
Today, three unwise CEOs seek to get gifts from King Government.
jgapinoy on December 12, 2008 at 9:15 AM
UAW- the way it was, THE WAY IT IS…
the UAW is absolutely responsible for the ruination of the American auto companies. I worked four summers in the late 1970’s and early 1980’s for Buick as a college student Cooperative student.
I began as a wide-eyed lib and left 4 years later as a stone cold anti-union conservative.
At 22, I knew the unions would kill GM and ruin my hometown (Flint MI) even though at the time GM was ridin’ high.
EVERY UAW member/worker had a parts/job quota for his day. Most all finished within 45min to 1 hr after clocking in. At that time they shut down the machine and went to the bar. After no more than 2 hours the machine floor would go silent and the lines would stop. THIS IS TRUE OF ALL UAW PLANTS- still even to this day. I have MANY friends and family who are shoprats still and I know I can always find them at the bar nearest the plant.
UAW workers commited crimes against GM every day- arson, sabotage of bldgs., machines, and CARS. Violent crimes took place on the machine floor all the time beatings, rapes, etc. The UAW threatens WALKOUTS if management did ANYTHING to the UAW worker responsible.
The “rats” took delight in screwin’ management at every turn. Union rules FORBID white collar folks from plugging in any appliance/device, from moving a chair from one desk to another, from changing ANY furniture at all. It is often the job of students to go looking through the local bar for an electrician to come back to the shop to plug something in. Usually the white-collar person is told to go f— off.
IF ANY WHITE COLLAR PERSON DID ANYTHING THE UAW DIDN’T LIKE– WALKOUT.
I had relatives who drew FULL PAY AND BENEFITS for 30 years and were on “Sick Leave” the ENTIRE TIME. Many, many doctors could be bought off easily and cheaply.
Folks in Michigan know to NEVER BUY A UAW made car that was made on Friday or Monday. “Rats” are ’startin’ the weekend early’ or in a real bad mood- and sabotage the cars on purpose.
I worked in the engine plant, foundry, assembly, engineering and the Buick Main Office. It was the same everywhere- and it still is.
ExTex on December 12, 2008 at 9:15 AM
Bankruptcy now! Restructure, rebuild and reemerge stronger than ever . . . that’s capitalism and not the quasi communism the Democrats are attempting to thrust upon us.
Give those union gangsters nothing.
rplat on December 12, 2008 at 9:16 AM
Just remember that Republicans are being blamed for this whole mess. And the media will keep it up forever.
I am as conservative as anyone here and think that the financial industry bailout was just a crazy panic. However, if Republicans had not fixed the problem, the meltdown could have tanked our WHOLE economy. The Republicans could then plan to win their next election in the next century. Like 2132 or so. Further, as someone here pointed out the other day, President Hoover intervened when the depression started.
And can we get someone out in the reasonable media (WSJ or FOX) to separate the resistance to saving some failing carmakers from the need to support our financial institutions? One supplies a fungible product available from numerous sources while the other facilitates most of our daily lives.
MSNBC was just playing the difference between helping Wall Street and helping Detroit as a blue collar/white collar thing.
IlikedAUH2O on December 12, 2008 at 9:21 AM
ExTEx let us decertify the union, then. Il go for that!
But then we have the next president…
IlikedAUH2O on December 12, 2008 at 9:24 AM
I can’t believe what you wrote. How horrible it must have been. I worked at a Ford plant in Lorain Ohio in the 1975-76 timeframe. Nothing ever shut the line down except plant closures over the holidays and model turnover. Once they did go on strike but the union got what they wanted. Maybe Ford knows what they are doing since they don’t want the bailout. Gosh GM union sounds like a street gang from what you wrote. Walkout usually requires a union vote doesn’t it?
kanda on December 12, 2008 at 9:28 AM
And we get hurricanes all the time, too… but this recession is a lot more like Katrina than Gustav. It’s worse than anything we’ve seen for 50 years. Blowing it off is a major mistake.
GM may well have been on life support for a while, but if/when it fails now, this vote will be pointed to as the direct cause. Maybe that’s just semantics, or an oversimplification; maybe a bailout now would give the company a chance to make a softer landing now after the lending industry has had a chance to stabilize somewhat. I don’t know enough to predict either one – I’m a cook. But the Democrats will waste no time connecting A to B. Remember how Ohio is always important in any Presidential election? The Rust Belt just went heavily for the Democrats, for a long time to come.
Well, at least the Republicans have their principles to comfort them. Kind of like the Shakers – they were big on celibacy, as I recall. Not too many of them around anymore…
Mal Carne on December 12, 2008 at 9:29 AM
Same thing in Coventry, England. Only difference being that it wasn’t restricted to the car industry. I believe that similar behaviour occurred throughout the country, in all large industries.
OldEnglish on December 12, 2008 at 9:31 AM
and the government bailouts are making it worse.
I’d rather fall with my principles than bend over to the union thugs and their democRAT allies.
right4life on December 12, 2008 at 9:31 AM
they didn’t fix the problem, they just threw money at it, and kicked the problem down the road. please.
and MADE IT WORSE. then FDR made it even worse.
right4life on December 12, 2008 at 9:33 AM
Let’s give senator dumas a trophy because he showed up and tried really hard and his bill looks nice. You don’t pass legislation that is bad for the country because some senator worked hard. You pass legislation that is good for the country. That’s liking paying a building contractor for a home with bad plumbing, bad electrical, bad HVAC, and a leaky roof beause he worked real HARD.
thomasaur on December 12, 2008 at 9:39 AM
Dear All:
I support an auto industry bailout only most reluctantly. Auto execs do not deserve to be rewarded for their incorrigibility, but neither do assembly-line workers deserve to be punished.
The anti-union animus expressed here and by the senators who demanded what are almost certainly illegal concessions from the UAW is extraordinary. And the bloviating of the ExTexes who blame it all on the blue-collar men and women who have brought domestic brands up to comparable quality levels of non-U.S. brands is just pathetic.
And yes, the unionized nurse analogy is not only appropriate, it is likely prescient.
I hate to start a link-a-thon, but I’ve expressed my views in detail here and here:
http://kikoshouse.blogspot.com/2008/11/detroit-bailout-dilemma-why-reward-gm.html
http://kikoshouse.blogspot.com/2008/12/many-more-questions-than-answers-as-big.html
sdm on December 12, 2008 at 9:40 AM
And the Federal Government should only replace what it is responsible for during natural tragedies. But no they give money to the uninsured, the unemployed and the all other takers. And what kind of society does this promote? A bunch of people who do anything they damn well please, whenever it suits them with the assurance that someone will come along and “bail” the out. The Auto Execs signed on to unmanageable contracts, the UAW promoted them and of course the workers wanted the best for themselves, none with an outlook to the future. And then they run to get help from the masters of the same outlook, Congress. You know the folks who run Social Security, Medicare and Fannie and Freddy. Please give me a big fat break.
Cindy Munford on December 12, 2008 at 9:42 AM
I worked for a company that gave the NCLEX, nursing exam. You would not believe how many nurses they have been importing from foreign countries. Whole business dedicated to that alone. So are we heading towards a glut?
Cindy Munford on December 12, 2008 at 9:44 AM
…said the dinosaur.
Mal Carne on December 12, 2008 at 9:46 AM
Ever worked in a large, unionized, metal-work industry?
OldEnglish on December 12, 2008 at 9:47 AM
+10!
DeathToMediaHacks on December 12, 2008 at 9:47 AM
None of these UAW people are Republicans. Almost all of their states are heavily Democratic or becoming more Democratic (Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Indiana, etc).
The way back for Republicans is not to bribe voters with money or create constituencies that depend on government money to stay alive. That is the Democratic way. If we go that route, the Republicans are no better than the Democrats, and don’t deserve to be in power.
We lose little from opposing the bailout. Screw the UAW, screw their workers, and screw their families. They’re all Obama-losers anyways.
Tabris on December 12, 2008 at 9:50 AM
Hooray for compassionate conservatism!
Mal Carne on December 12, 2008 at 9:54 AM
Regarding the roll-call on Michelle Malkin’s site:
10 Republicans voted FOR the bailout, of whom 3 lost election (Dole, Domenici, Warner) and will be replaced by Democrats.
4 Democrats voted against the bailout, including Reid.
8 Republicans didn’t vote, of whom 3 lost election to Democrats (Smith, Stevens, Sununu), 1 (Hagel) was replaced by a Republican.
4 Democrats didn’t vote, including Kennedy and Kerry.
So what happens next month when the Democrats pick up a net 7 seats (assuming Coleman holds on, and Obama and Biden are replaced by Democrats)?
The Democrats will then have 58 Senators, of whom 4 voted against the bailout, but Reid will change his vote, give them 55. Seven of the 10 Republicans who voted for the bailout will be back, and cloture for the bailout gets 62 votes. Unless at least three Republicans change their votes, of whom Bond(MO), Brownback(KS), and Voinovich(OH) would be the most likely.
But it’s highly likely that this lame-duck vote just delayed the inevitable. GM and Chrysler will hang on for another month or so, and the bailout will sail through with President Obama rallying the union thugs, and all will be peachy in UAWland and Dearbornistan, while people BUY cars made by Toyota and Honda in non-union shops in Dixie.
Steve Z on December 12, 2008 at 9:54 AM
Compassionate conservatism is for losers. It’s destroyed the Republican Party.
Tabris on December 12, 2008 at 9:58 AM
Mal Tumor “compassionate conservatism” was whipped like a rented mule despite our victory such as it was in 2000 and 2004, it got its a** beat in 2008…..
“keep the change”.
sven10077 on December 12, 2008 at 10:00 AM
EVERYTHING I told you about my OWN EXPERIENCE with GM and the UAW is 100% TRUE.
And- I HATE IT.
My whole family- both sets of grandparents, my dad, my aunts and uncles, almost all of my 52 first cousins worked at Buick City, Fischer Body, AC or Chevy as Executives(4) or skilled labor(8 or so) or ‘rats’( the rest).
I grew up with Generous Mother. I loved and relied on her- but the pact she has with the devil UAW killed her and my hometown.
ExTex on December 12, 2008 at 10:04 AM
rather be a dinosaur than a sell-out loser.
right4life on December 12, 2008 at 10:04 AM
use YOUR money mel baby, instead of trying to take mine, to bail out your union thug buddies.
send em a check. put your money where your mouth is…but like all good libs you won’t. you need other people’s money to make you feel ‘compassionate’.
right4life on December 12, 2008 at 10:05 AM
If it takes money out of my back pocket, you know what you can do with your compassionate conservatism. I look after my family, others may look after theirs as best they can. No-one is owed a living.
OldEnglish on December 12, 2008 at 10:07 AM
I got your six.
OldEnglish on December 12, 2008 at 10:09 AM
Why don’t the Big 3 go to UAW and ask for a lone? They could go to the others families (Teamsters, SEIU, Teachers, government employees unions et.al.). Isn’t that how they built Vegas.
thomasaur on December 12, 2008 at 10:10 AM
lone=loan
thomasaur on December 12, 2008 at 10:10 AM
Thanks dude. It kin git lonely out here.
ExTex on December 12, 2008 at 10:14 AM
Having the companies declare bankruptcy is reality, that is where they belong…file for bankruptcy.
Then re-organize and re-negotiate the union contracts, and get them rolling again under new leadership.
I don’t get the problem here…they aren’t “failing” and going away, they have failed at keeping there companies running under the present “plan”.
If they are so sure the money will help, then re-organize under chap. 11 and prove it.
right2bright on December 12, 2008 at 10:17 AM
Tell me, you are the kind of person, whose kid if runs across the busy street without looking, applauds them for being skillful at not being killed…rather then reprimanding them for doing something foolish.
Don’t want to look like a “mean” parent…
right2bright on December 12, 2008 at 10:21 AM
right4life on December 12, 2008 at 10:23 AM
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