Video: Bush on faith and Christianity
posted at 8:00 pm on December 9, 2008 by Allahpundit
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One hundred comments in the Headline item means you’re probably interested in the clip. A far-ranging chat here with a few surprises (e.g., he doesn’t believe the Bible’s literally true), but predictably the conversation steers around to whether he thinks he’s on a mission from God that might, perchance, involve voices in his head giving him military advice. All part of the media’s Stillson-ification of evangelical hawks, for whom imputations of this sort are de rigueur. Although in fairness, depending on whom you believe, Bush may have gone further in his rhetoric at times than is customary.
The most interesting bit: The beginning of the second clip, when he talks about Christianity being but one “avenue” to the God whom believers of all faiths worship in common. A fine, politic answer, but in my Catholic days I was under the impression that the only path to salvation lay through Christ. Maybe I’m misremembering?
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No Allah, you aren’t misremembering. I’m a Baptist and it’s still the same answer. Jesus said, I am the way the truth and the life, no one cometh unto the Father, but by me John 14:6
flytier on December 9, 2008 at 8:09 PM
Spoken like the President of people of many faiths.
Cindy Munford on December 9, 2008 at 8:13 PM
First: I am by no means a theologian.
I think we do all pray to the same God in that there is only one God who hears us. He must hear everything because He knows everything. If a man prays sinfully, such as a Jihaddist, God does not hear that prayer. What other avenues there are to God is true. Other people do choose other avenues. They are just wrong. Christ is the only way.
I didn’t see anything wrong with what he said. I didn’t care for hos term “broad” because that is obviously not the way. He may be saying that there are broad paths that lead to Christ and THEN the path is quite narrow. Otherwise, how would Moslems, etc find Christ? They are travelling down the broad path that leads them to Christ. Then they either choose to follow Him or not. Very much like Jesus’ followers who followed Him up to a point and then followed Him no more.
Mr_Magoo on December 9, 2008 at 8:14 PM
It is not clear in my mind how much “salvation” is in his response, or in her question either. The questions is almost too vague to offer a concise response.
But clearly I may be wrong.
Mr_Magoo on December 9, 2008 at 8:18 PM
But when do you find the path through Christ.
Must it be before your heart, lungs, and brain cease to function?
Christians don’t have to believe that other religions possess none of the truth, just that have Truth embodied in the Man.
There are mysteries still maintained by God.
silverfox on December 9, 2008 at 8:18 PM
Jesus made it pretty clear. If you are dead, it’s a little hard to repent and come to him.
flytier on December 9, 2008 at 8:24 PM
A fine, politic answer, but in my Catholic days I was under the impression that the only path to salvation lay through Christ. Maybe I’m misremembering?
Well, ‘Christ’ was God incarnate, so….you kinda missed that point from your ‘Catholic’ days.
GWBush…what a humble, honest man. What an idiotic reporter.
bridgetown on December 9, 2008 at 8:24 PM
Interesting to see his inclusive theology. Does anyone think we will ever be able to elect guys like Jefferson, Adams, and Lincoln again? Guys who say “Yes, I believe in God, and I believe Jesus had had a fantastic moral system, but I really don’t buy into that whole Jesus was God and performed miracles stuff.” Of course, those presidents had the advantage of keeping their religion private. That’s not really an option with the modern media.
justfinethanks on December 9, 2008 at 8:25 PM
With all the events of the day, I can’t help compare President George W. Bush to what is going on in Chicago………………
…………….. I am truly going to miss you sir.
Seven Percent Solution on December 9, 2008 at 8:27 PM
Thomas refused to believe until he could put his hand in Jesus’ actual wound, and yet he’s saved. Do you think any individual will not be offered a lesser chance, even if it it post-death?
I don’t believe God lets death take any souls that He doesn’t want saved, even if the lips haven’t uttered words of faith.
silverfox on December 9, 2008 at 8:28 PM
My wife and I love George and Laura. We still have 2 voicemails on our machine at home. Robocalls from 2004.
“This is George W. Bush…” and
“This is Laura Bush…”
We will never delete them.
Mr_Magoo on December 9, 2008 at 8:29 PM
finding out he’s not a fundamentalist isn’t exactly suprising.
that said, taking the entire bible literally is very different than beleiving the Bible is Infallible
jp on December 9, 2008 at 8:30 PM
How can you believe God created the Universe and not believe in Miracles after you already believe in the greatest Miracle of them all?
jp on December 9, 2008 at 8:32 PM
Yes indeed. Our Associate Pastor had the same comment. Revelations for example?
Mr_Magoo on December 9, 2008 at 8:32 PM
How can anyone say “The moment of conception beyond any specificity is above my pay grade”?
“Guys” say a lot of things!
Mr_Magoo on December 9, 2008 at 8:34 PM
God gave Bush the role of stopping up ears and placing scales over eyes.
BL@KBIRD on December 9, 2008 at 8:38 PM
Well, Diests like Jefferson and Adams believed the God made the world and simply left it alone, in a sense. Jefferson wondered why it was that when ancient greek or Roman historians wrote about things like talking cows, it is dismissed by thinking people as nonsense without a second thought. But when Jesus’ biographers wrote of supernatural things, they are are thought to be true.
justfinethanks on December 9, 2008 at 8:39 PM
I wish they’d ask Barry what voices he listens and listened to to form his beliefs–and perhaps influence his thinking on military strategy.
JiangxiDad on December 9, 2008 at 8:40 PM
Saw this last night. Reaffirmed to me why I like GWB so much.
nickj116 on December 9, 2008 at 8:41 PM
Btw, Bush has given more money and aid to Africa than any other president in U.S. history. He has literally saved millions of people.
nickj116 on December 9, 2008 at 8:44 PM
How could Jesus have a fantastic moral system if He wasn’t God. Jesus claimed to be the Son of God. If He wasn’t Son of God then He is a liar. How can a liar have a fantastic moral system?
flash044 on December 9, 2008 at 8:45 PM
This is the guy who thinks the god of Islam and God of the Bible are the same entity. A cursory reading of either scripture would show how idiotic this stance is.
America will pay for his ignorance.
Valiant on December 9, 2008 at 8:48 PM
There’s only one God; some religions suck.
JiangxiDad on December 9, 2008 at 8:49 PM
So Jews are going to hell?
For what, for eliminating the middle man?
Who needs retail when you can get it at wholesale prices?
mylegsareswollen on December 9, 2008 at 8:52 PM
Jefferson didn’t think Jesus was a liar. He thought that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were. Famously, he took a bible and cut out all of the verses that he thought that the gospel authors “added,” and leaved only certain biographical information and his teachings. No miracles or claims to deity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_bible
justfinethanks on December 9, 2008 at 8:53 PM
Exactly. He’s a good man and a man of his faith, and those were good answers given his position and the media’s insistence on trying to make him look like their conception of a “crazy fundie.”
brak on December 9, 2008 at 8:53 PM
Actually, you may want to do some research. The God of Abraham is the same for Jews, Christians, and Muslims. They just get off the boat at different times, so to speak. But you don’t exactly sound like the open-minded so I won’t bother.
brak on December 9, 2008 at 8:55 PM
For eight years I have defended Bush to my friends. I’ve insisted all along that he was a good Christian. I even have the book “A Man of Faith- The Spiritual Journey of George W. Bush”.
But this morning I saw this interview.
To say that you rely on the Bible for guidance, but… you can’t really take it literally. That’s just idiotic. Why would anyone rely on a book for guidance if it can’t be taken literally? Isn’t that really coming full circle and saying that in the end you rely on your own judgement anyway?
The Bible is a more than a great book. It is to be taken literally. And that means that Jesus is literally the only way to reach God.
My copy of “A Man of Faith” went into the garbage today.
Bob Feeblethorp on December 9, 2008 at 8:59 PM
This sort of thing is only ever a surprise to militant atheists. Those of us who know that the religious are not all snake handlers recognize that lots and lots of religious people are not Bible literalists.
Kensington on December 9, 2008 at 9:05 PM
You are indeed misremembering. See Romans 2:
Translation: Those who have not heard the Word will be judged by their natural law, while those who have heard it (the harder path) will be judged by it. In both cases, the judge is God. It is not by acts motivated by the good will of other men that we will be judged, but by acts motivated by inner faith (or morality in the case of the natural law).
The Catholic Church does hold that it has the fullness of the teachings of Christ, but does not hold that it is the only way to salvation. Here, are the words of Benedict himself:
Hopefully that is sufficient commentary on Allah’s few sentences.
unclesmrgol on December 9, 2008 at 9:05 PM
Saw this last night and thought it was a good interview.
terryannonline on December 9, 2008 at 9:08 PM
I knew they’d ask him if God talks to him. Make him out as a kook. The idea of so many people, so many paths is more Hindu than Christian. Yet it seems perfectly consistent with Christianity to me.
Paul-Cincy on December 9, 2008 at 9:15 PM
Meaningless trash. Asking “is the bible to be taken literally?” is like asking “is every book in my local library to be taken literally/”. Some is, some isn’t. Sheesh.
Darth Executor on December 9, 2008 at 9:21 PM
I think (think) perhaps what he may have been trying to say is that some feel that parts of the Bible are not literal. I am thinking of Revelations when I say this. There may be other areas. A little online research would probably clarify his position.
Your comments sound strangely like those during the campaigning: “I’ve been a Republican all my life but I just can’t vote for McCain.” Sounds trollish in a BDS sort of way.
But hey, I’m just a little bald guy with thick glasses and no eyeballs!
Mr_Magoo on December 9, 2008 at 9:52 PM
I cannot watch Nightline. Sorry.
Zorro on December 9, 2008 at 9:55 PM
My guess was that he was a disenchanted Roman Catholic..
The Roman Catholic Church changed their theology drastically when they split from the Orthodox Church 1,000 years ago.
Often you hear of Roman Catholics becoming atheists because the theology they learned seemed kind of negative and cruel.
If he had learned Orthodox theology VS. Roman Catholic theology, he probably wouldn’t be in apostasy right now.
SaintOlaf on December 9, 2008 at 9:55 PM
Typical bad new age philosophy from the masonic skull and bones one-world crowd. He probably believes that all currencies and governments are but different paths to the same ends. This really worries me, and I’m not a So-Con, seriously what gives?
abobo on December 9, 2008 at 10:00 PM
This is my all-time favorite The Onion article:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/43189
Mr_Magoo on December 9, 2008 at 10:02 PM
ALLAH:
Once a Catholic ALWAYS a Catholic…you are right about salvation only through Christ
joepub on December 9, 2008 at 10:07 PM
So, you believe that the Earth is only about 10,000 years old? Don’t you have to take that literal result given the geneaology of Jesus Christ?
And if you do believe that, could you explain why there are stars more than 10,000 light years from Earth?
PackerBronco on December 9, 2008 at 10:16 PM
No you remember things correctly, but you have to be careful. The only path to salvation is through Christ, but God is not limited to this path. God can save anyone He pleases, no matter what direction they come from. To claim otherwise places a limit upon God.
PackerBronco on December 9, 2008 at 10:20 PM
Think! All the “gods” contradict eachother. How stupid it is to believe that all faiths leed to the same god. Either Jesus is THE WAY as He said, or he’s not THE WAY, but a way amoung many! It can’t be both! I am a serious layman of the Christian faith and a believer in Christ Jesus. I would recommend hundreds of great theologians but this site is good to begin with. Equip.org
Mercy4Me on December 9, 2008 at 10:39 PM
Actually, it’s a fairly common answer for a Methodist like Bush and essentially the same as the one Hillary, another Methodist, gave when asked the same question.
Strick on December 9, 2008 at 10:40 PM
What a hit peice,and I don’t know why President Bush
continues to allow these Lefty tools to mold and
manipulate the Republican cause!
The same crap was pulled on SarahCuda with the witch
doctor episode to Sarah’s church!
Its amazing how Obama didn’t get the same treatment
by the ever helpful MSM!
canopfor on December 9, 2008 at 10:43 PM
I think George Bush is a sincere man. Don’t agree with him on everything, but I like him. And I think he means well too. I do. That said, his understanding of who God is, Christianity, and how a person gets to heaven is deeply flawed. I’m concerned for the man after watching that interview because I have no idea if he is saved or not now!? Somebody please sit down with the President. Call one of these folks (Joel Rosenberg, Ray Comfort, Ken Ham). Get them to sit down with the President and make sure he’s saved and going to heaven! First big biG BIG problem we got here is when Bush said that all people and all different religions pray to the same god. First place, it’s not what the Bible says, okay. You’re welcome to believe that Mr. Bush, however, you need to understand you’re not talking of the God of the Bible. You might be talking about god like Osama Bin Laden talks about god, but that’s not the God of the Bible. He’s got a different god than Christians do, okay. The Mormons have a different god than Christians do. The Harry Chrishnas with all their gods have a different god than Christians. Just because somebody says the word “god” does not mean they are talking about the same person that is the God of the Bible. So, uh, no, Mr. President, God does not use all these different religions as a pathway to Him. There’s no evidence for that anyways, okay. Look, uh, if there is a God and there is a Devil (and I believe there is) it would be smart for the Devil to do that very thing — to corrupt God’s Word. To confuse humanity, to start 50,000 religions and get people confused and distracted, the same way that war does. The enemy comes in. They turn the road signs. They blow up bridges. They try to confuse the enemy. I think there’s a real God and there’s a real Devil, and Satan is using tactics of confusion to try and keep people away from the truth. The truth is very simple. Jesus Christ died for your sins and was buried; and that He rose from the dead on the third day. You must believe and confess this in order to be saved. “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is NONE OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN given among men, whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4:12). Amen.
apacalyps on December 9, 2008 at 10:45 PM
+1
Andrew D on December 9, 2008 at 10:54 PM
AP, you’re not misremembering. Atheist you may be, but your understanding is better than GWB’s.
INC on December 9, 2008 at 10:56 PM
Continue on to Romans 3, and you will see that Paul says:
“We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. As it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one;”
INC on December 9, 2008 at 11:02 PM
Jesus said, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father in Heaven except by me”.
jgapinoy on December 9, 2008 at 11:07 PM
I guess you would draw the same conclusion about Billy Graham:
Mr_Magoo on December 9, 2008 at 11:08 PM
Jesus said, “Narrow is the way that leads to life. Broad is the road that leads to destruction”.
jgapinoy on December 9, 2008 at 11:08 PM
While standing on the rope line shortly after 9/11, my wife told him “God bless you Mr. President, we are praying for you,” He returned to her twice to thank her and said “You know this is all in God’s hands.” To which she said her prayer warriors would be supporting him daily with their prayers.
We’ve met him twice since then and she has reminded him she is still praying for him. Each time he has thanked he and ask her to keep him in her prayers.
This is a good man, who like many of us, is seekeing God’s will in their lives!
illinidriller on December 9, 2008 at 11:11 PM
If someone asked if I take what’s in the Bible literally, I’d first have to ask what they meant by literal. If they meant the sort of wooden literalism that you find among, say, dispensationalists, I would say no. If they would mean it as Luther did, where passages are to be interpreted from within their literary context, I’d say yes. I was encouraged when he said that the way he made sure it wasn’t his ego (self) talking back when he prayed was by staying in the Bible (I interpret this as meaning that the Bible is to be viewed as the standard, not the individual).
dufflepud on December 9, 2008 at 11:30 PM
No, you’re not misremembering, AP. You are absolutely, unequivocally, unmistakably, positively, 100%, correct. BTW: I noticed your Catholicism remark. Uh, some big problems with Catholicism. I don’t recommend it. When I was a baby I was baptised as a Roman Catholic. After I grew up and found out what it was all about I got out. My own research of Roman Catholicism has shown me it should be categorised as a false religion, rather than a cult. I believe that they have hijacked the simplicity of Biblical Christianity from the fourth century onwards. Their unbiblical obsession and worship of Mary does cause some serious problems – idolatry being one of them. BTW 2: Before any of you think I’m being hard on Catholics know that several of my family members are Catholic as I am half Italian. I think Catholics are some of the most decent people around. Nono (grandpa in Italian), nona (grandma in Italian) were very good to me. I loved them very much and would not purposely hurt them. That said, I think the majority of Catholics are involved with a false Church. There are probably a few Catholics saved and going to heaven, but they’d be the ones who have fled the system, that is, abandoned “Vatican Incorporated,” they’ve sold there shares in the Vatican, and invested their lives in the Lord Jesus Christ as He and He alone is the One true Mediator (not your parish priest or even the Pope) that Scripture speaks about (Hebrews 8:6; 9:15; 12:24.) So may I leave you with Grattan Guinness’ urgent plea to Catholics:
“It is done. Rome’s last word is spoken. Her fate is fixed, fixed by her own action, her own utterance, her own oath. Individuals may escape, may flee the system; but as a Church it is past recovery and utterly beyond reach of reformation. Oh that thousands [now millions] might escape from it while yet there is time! ‘Come out of her, My people.’ Oh that they would wake from their blind and abject submission to the tyranny of hypocrites while there is room for repentance” (Romanism and the Reformation, pg. 90.)
apacalyps on December 9, 2008 at 11:47 PM
Good interview. I liked how he tried to include those that didn’t accept the literal translation of the Bible into the group that is “Saved.” Who is to say what group someone else is to fall into when we have to guard our own egotism, which may lead us astray. When you look at life and see all the hurting people there should be no sense of competition, since there are enough to go around to be ministered to. If your faith is better than mine then show me by the positive fruitage that it is and I will at least acknowledge and bless the good works that I see. I may even gain from it and be a better person for it, especially in God’s eyes.
DL13 on December 9, 2008 at 11:48 PM
Mr_Magoo…
If putting God’s word before any president is “trollish”, then label me a troll. Last I checked though, fundamentalists were considered pretty darn conservative.
PackerBronco…
The earth is 6,000 years old (Genesis says so). Again, the Bible is literal book. Stars may be older, this does not contradict Genesis.
Bob Feeblethorp on December 9, 2008 at 11:53 PM
President Bush showed his strong and intelligent faith in God in the interview. He realizes that he is not perfect and he trusts in God.
***
His answers about whether others (non-Christians and atheists / agnostics) can be saved is a good one. The Bible does say that the only way to Heaven is via belief in Jesus Christ as God’s son and our redeemer.
***
The Bible does give a clue about how those that died without the chance to repent and confess Jesus as Lord and Savior received forgiveness. This is also found in the Christian creeds–”He descended into the place of the dead” and apparently saved them–after his death and before his resurrection.
***
I know good Jewish people–they pray to God like I do. God hears them, and my faith in God tells me that he has a plan to save them also. I think this must also be true for good Muslims who sincerely pray to God. The old and new testaments give many examples of God’s forgiveness and willingness to forgo punishment of people who repent and trust in him.
***
As far as taking the Bible literally–we are not capable of understanding all that God did, does, and will do. This is where faith (trust in God) comes in. We can ask Him about anything we don’t understand when we stand before Him–if we dare!
***
President Bush has a good heart and has tried to do the right things as president. He is not perfect–but he trusts in God. It was good to see him the first lady, and Vice President Cheney and his wife in church. Compare this video with those of “reverend Wright” and the “Black Liberation Theology” rants and raves against our country.
***
John Bibb
rocketman on December 9, 2008 at 11:56 PM
I have no comment on Billy Graham. I hope he is saved and going to heaven. I hope George Bush is going to heaven too. All I know is that when somebody purposely makes the Bible say something it does not say, they are making themselves an authority over God’s Word, and when you do that, they are in placing themselves in danger of judgment. Call me a literalist for my interpretation of the Bible, but that is what I am, and I am unashamed of it, and I believe very strongly that that is how the Bible should be taken. A Christian cannot just ignore part of the Scripture and still claim to be a Christian. I see alot of people creating a god to suit themselves. They’ll just say something like this; “To me, God is like this…”, and you shape a god to suit yourself and then you can sin your little heart out. Idolatry is perhaps the greatest and most dangerous of all sins, because once you create a god in your mind that your comfortable with, you’ll also create a moral standard to go along with him. People need to understand that it matters what we believe about God. He says, “I am the LORD, I change not” (Malachi 3:6).
apacalyps on December 10, 2008 at 12:18 AM
I understand what you are saying but you seems quick to toss him and his book in the trash. Maybe you should have kept the book and prayed for him instead.
Mr_Magoo on December 10, 2008 at 12:21 AM
No.
And when you talk about all religions, you have to look at them one by one..
Islam: a Christian heresy that denies the Divinity of Christ and the Holy Trinity (Mohammed was taught by an excommunicated heretic)
Judaism: another Christian heresy. The hebrews rejected the God they claim to worship….they deny the Divinity of Christ the Word and the Holy Trinity(the God of Abraham the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob)
Pagan religions: worship of the fallen angels, demonology
Hinduism: Demonology, worship of fallen angels
Buddhism: Hinduistic demonology/little bit of Taoism
Taoism: One could make a plausible case that Taoism is in a way a prophecying of Christ to prepare the asiatic people for Christ…taoism is totally insuficient in itself as a whole though.
No.
All religions are not the same.
Oh and that caveat about..”what about the people before the Incarnation of Christ” doesn’t hold up either.
Christ descended into Hades after the crucifixion to preach (with St. John the Baptist going first to prepare the way for him).
The point is Jesus Christ is REAL, LIVING and RISEN.
God, the Holy Trinity…Father,Son,Holy Spirit(also called The Thought,The Word,The Breath) is REAL and He will reveal Himself to all who earnestly seek Him.
SaintOlaf on December 10, 2008 at 12:49 AM
It’s not unBiblical(but then again the Roman Catholic view of the Virgin Mary is wrong and quite a bit different than the Orthodox view)….
The Archangel called her “blessed amongst all women”, and the Holy Spirit (prophecying through St. Elizabeth) prophecied that ALL generations would call her blessed.
When one looks at an icon of Christ and prays, your prayers aren’t to the icon but are passed through to Christ.
In a similar way, when one prays to a saint to ask them to pray to Christ for you, it is God who passes the prayer through to them, and the prayer from the saint holds more sway or is heard better in a sense.(also in the heavenly liturgy spoken of in Revelations and Isaiah..the incence before the throne is the prayers of the saints).
The saints are not dead but they are alive (also spoken of many times in the Bible).
And in a mysterious way, the saints are able to participate in the Divine Energies of God.
Frankly IMO, the Church is poor without the wealth of the saints, and the Blessed Virgin Mary is the greatest of the saints. She (as the temple of God, with Christ inside her) is the archetype of all Christians.
You ask other Christians to pray for you and know that it works, I’m sure you wouldn’t mind saints praying for you, and who would you rather have praying for you than the greatest of the saints, the Theotokos herself?
As for the interpretations regarding the ever virginity of St. Mary…Martin Luther,John Calvin,Zwingli and other protestant reformation leaders all believed in the ever virginity of St. Mary, called her Theotokos(Mother of God or God Bearer) and interpreted the Scriptures as such.
Jesus’s “brothers” are not blood brothers but relatives, like Abraham and his “brother” Lot..(actually his nephew)
The new interpretation of her having other children only originated within the last 50 to 100 years.
SaintOlaf on December 10, 2008 at 1:50 AM
GW says he still reads the bible, believes it is the truth, though he says he is not a literalist. If he continues to
read the bible earnestly,and prays for the holy spirit to
guide him, he should find the truth as we all should be doing. The bible is the truth literally. It has,
historical accounts, parables (Stories with examples illustrating truth.) And states prophecy with symbols.
But is much more than just a book. It is God’s character
and way of communicating with us. It is him. He is the word.
dec5 on December 10, 2008 at 2:00 AM
Your worship of Gods is a farce. You silly superstitious fruitcakes are an embarrassment to sober minded faithful and a running joke here on HA. Your Insane Clown Posse of Ignorance and Hate could not be more hollow and meaningless. Same dumb asses spewing the same Quasi-Spirituality. If you were less horny for the Apolyclips and more concerned with living Christ’s example you might be somewhere near as profound and effective as you seem to delude yourselves to be. But no. You are cardboard cutouts of concrete thinking cultists. Ignorance and Righteousness mixed perfectly to nauseate.
ronsfi on December 10, 2008 at 2:10 AM
Well what the bible says is that you will know those who
know God by their fruits (actions,and words.) They will
continue to glorify God instead of themselves or any earthly
agenda. GW seems to be aware of the dangers of power with
egos and prays for God’s guidance by reading his word.
He knows he is not perfect, and he is in need of God’s words
in the bible. I am glad he will continue to seek Christ out
in his life.
dec5 on December 10, 2008 at 2:33 AM
I like Bush as a person, but I’ve often thought that his born again status interfered with the reality on the ground that Islam sucks and is the problem.
Connie on December 10, 2008 at 2:55 AM
That’s right. Jesus said, “For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened” (Matthew 7:8). The Bible says if you seek after God, God will see to him, that you find Him. “But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul” (Deuteronomy 4:29). There are those who don’t want God though cause they’re afraid of some of the rules that go along with an authority, and that why in the 1800’s this philosophy evolution caught on.
apacalyps on December 10, 2008 at 3:47 AM
How is that possible? First there was light and then there was the Earth. At most, by your interpretation, the stars can only be 6,000 years and one day old.
Which is ridiculous, by the way.
How is it that there are still so many people in this day and age who think religion and science are mutually exclusive (that goes both ways, of course)? I’m not sure one could exist without the other, actually. God Himself is, after all, the Ultimate Scientist.
NoLeftTurn on December 10, 2008 at 5:08 AM
Why am I not shocked to read that AP, the atheist, is an ex-Catholic? The most condescending and self-righteous of anything is always an “ex”. Not that it matters, but I don’t believe he rejects the existence of God; he’s just pissed off at God for some reason and hasn’t finished his “time out”.
SKYFOX on December 10, 2008 at 5:20 AM
I find it hard to believe that Jesus Christ, the Prince of Peace would consign billions of people to a pit of everlasting fire because they failed to proscribe to a certain faith.
I think that Bush probably feels that God created the laws of nature and allowed them to take their course, which is what Carl Sagan believed. So there is no lack of faith there. It is possible to accept evolution and still believe that God created life.
I am a Christian and so I believe Jesus when he said only through me, I am the way. But then again, what does that mean exactly? I am not sure about that. I think God is the one who calls the shots here and I just do not feel like I am qualified to know His will.
Terrye on December 10, 2008 at 6:40 AM
You’re not misremembering, AP. And the “one way” is not just for Catholics either. Jesus plainly said in John 14:6, “I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life. No one comes to the father except through me.”
This is an example of why I could and would never be a politician- I will never compromise my beliefs or integrity to ingratiate myself for a vote. I’m really disappointed in Bush – again.
Terrye – Jesus does NOT consign billions of people to a pit of everlasting fire – those billions do that themselves. Are you aware of a sin debt owed by us to a Holy and Perfect God, who is just as well as merciful? Each one of chooses who will pay that sin debt – ourselves or Jesus. Believing a certain way does not get you into Heaven, it’s WHO you believe in. Adam sinned and ruined it for all of us, his sin is imputed to us because we are his decendents and have his tainted blood in our veins. When we accept Christ as savior, then HIS righteousness is imputed to us and our sin is wiped away because Jesus paid the sin debt on the cross.
We get in the next life what we choose in this life. We can choose to enter the presence of a Holy and Perfect God through Jesus and thereby sin free, or we can choose to spend this life apart from him and thereby spending eternity apart from him, paying for our own sins because God cannot allow sin to come into his presence.
The choice is ours, not God’s.
abcurtis on December 10, 2008 at 7:15 AM
Spoken like a politician who’s too much of a coward to stand up for the truth.
Are you saying, Cindy, that because I’m a Southern Baptist, and hold to Jesus being the only way to Heaven, that I cannot effectively represent people of other faiths or no faiths if I were elected to political office? Where to you get such a stupid notion? If I’m voting on something that affects the people who put me in office, the way I vote wont be predicated on what the people of my district, or state believe or dont believe where God is concerned. Your statement is typical liberal clap-trap.
abcurtis on December 10, 2008 at 7:20 AM
What part of “I am the way” dont you understand? I find it helpful to go to a Strong’s concordance to see what the original language says when I’m struggling with clarity. Be assured, God does not make the decision as to which individual goes to Heaven or hell – that choice resides with the individual. And why dont you know His will? Do you read His Word? You can get a pretty good indicator there.
abcurtis on December 10, 2008 at 7:24 AM
Bush is certainly not honest in this interview. I prefer to think Bush is a member of the Laodicean church.
And it seems Bush has no problem denying his Savior before man.
abcurtis on December 10, 2008 at 7:33 AM
The right answer for a Christian President:
RegularJoe on December 10, 2008 at 7:36 AM
With all due respect, Bush neglected his secular obligations of party building and selling his positions to the public to the extent that all of us will suffer on earth before our time in Heaven. I take the position that a person’s religion is their private business and should be kept that way.
JAW on December 10, 2008 at 7:40 AM
You are mistaken in your belief, silverfox. There is no repentance or forgiveness after death. Dying in unbelief is the unpardonable sin Jesus talked about. When we die, we wake up in Heaven or Hell. You cannot call out to God from Hell. Read the story of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke.
God does not want any to perish but everything He does for us requires a response on our part. Nowhere in scripture do you see Jesus sending emissaries into Hell preaching repentance.
abcurtis on December 10, 2008 at 7:41 AM
At RCIA last night our sub instructor-our deacon was out of town-basically said that all good and wellmeaning paths lead to God-to which I responded with something like if I can believe what ever I want than why be a Christian.
I was playing devils advocate with and though she knew it she gave me some generic well this is your choice and the others don’t matter line.
“I am the truth, the Way, and the Light. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
No ambigouity there.
annoyinglittletwerp on December 10, 2008 at 7:41 AM
Bush as asked to speak to his beliefs, not those of the nation. Why is it so hard to speak the truth – Jesus IS the only way. There- Iv’e said it, it’s not hard. It’s hard only if you dont really believe it, as Obama says he doesnt and it looks like Bush doesnt either.
abcurtis on December 10, 2008 at 7:44 AM
Here is the wonderful thing folks –
The fact that there is a Way to forgiveness and redemption. One has to admit that the nature of man is far from perfect and when set alongside God’s Holiness – we have all come short of that standard.
It is no hidden mystery – as some pastors or priests might want it to be. The truth is clear – read the Bible for what it is and it will become clearer.
defendfaithandfamily on December 10, 2008 at 7:45 AM
Your worship of Gods is a farce. You silly superstitious fruitcakes are an embarrassment to sober minded faithful and a running joke here on HA. [etc.]
ronsfi on December 10, 2008 at 2:10 AM
I assume this little stink bomb was for all believers.
My response: God loves you, and would love to take away the hurt and anger you (apparently) feel.
What you may not realize is that you’ve given Christians a blessing: “Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.” (Matt 5:11, NASB)
RegularJoe on December 10, 2008 at 7:47 AM
Is there a difference between infallible and inerrant? I am convinced that scripture in its original form is God breathed and is the inerrant word of God, revealed to men of faith by God Himself.
And to be honest, the entire Bible should not be taken literally because some of the language is metaphorical. Such as, when Jesus said at the Last Supper, this is my blood, poured out for you, did he open a vein and drain it into a cup and pass it around? How about when he said, “this is my body which is given for you” and he broke the bread and passed it around. Did he break off a piece of his body and pass it around? No, the bread and wine were and are symbols of his body and blood. He was speaking symbolically.
Discernment is a big help when reading scripture.
abcurtis on December 10, 2008 at 7:49 AM
So do immoral and corrupt politicians who want Planned Parenthood’s support.
abcurtis on December 10, 2008 at 7:52 AM
So your associate pastor is saying that Revelation (no “s”) is only symbolic, and not to be taken literally? On what does he base this claim?
abcurtis on December 10, 2008 at 7:54 AM
Well, the Deists are wrong arent they? Scripture speaks of no such “hands-off” Deity. And as far as Jefferson and the talking cows, had he ever read the story of Balaam and his talking donkey? I wonder if Jefferson ever took into account that the miracles recorded in the Gospels were recorded by eyewitnesses to those miracles?
abcurtis on December 10, 2008 at 7:58 AM
Terrye, ABCurtis was somewhat indelicate (harsh, actually), and I don’t wish to be. But I would like to offer a couple of thoughts on the subject of knowing God’s will, if you will permit me.
First, knowing His will is the reason He has given us His word. Obviously we must each seek his SPECIFIC will (should I take this job? marry that person? etc.); but on the universal matters, and as a framework within which to live our lives, a Christian should seek answers within God’s word, and trust that they are true. After all, if we can’t believe it (and I know many don’t), upon what can we base our faith?
Second, remember Paul’s admonition to Timothy: “For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and discipline.” That means we can stand strong on the promises of God, confidant that they are true.
______________________
As a general topic on the subject of universalism, my daughter — who I’m sad to say is not even a Christian, but was raised in the Church — observed that God wouldn’t come in the flesh to suffer torture and die a horrible death if there were “other ways”. Some say God is too loving to send people to Hell; I say God is too honest to lie about such a thing.
RegularJoe on December 10, 2008 at 8:00 AM
Can you show me a scripture verse where Jesus said to keep our “religion” (I hate that word) to ourselves? This would kind of negate the Great Commission and make Jesus a liar wouldnt it? And being a liar he could not be God could he? As far as I see, only Liberals like Dean and Kerry and Obama keep their “religion” to themselves, and that’s because they have no clue as to what they believe. And if all they have is religion and not a relationship, then the best thing they could do is keep it to themselves. Because “religion” takes the focus off of Jesus.
I’ll share Jesus anywhere and anytime. All you have to do is ask.
abcurtis on December 10, 2008 at 8:03 AM
I found GW’s interview to be a little unsettling, though. GW seems too distracted with spurious glitter. IE: all roads lede to Rome, etc.
I find this to be a specious argument. All religions can be false, but not all can be true.
That being said, I can forgive the man his misunderstandings, mis-statements, or confusions. The horrendous glare of conflagration and depravity have crossed his desk 24/7 for the last eight years. It would force even the strongest among us to cry out for some semblance of compassionate unity.
Reflective perspective is needed. Christmas Time is here.
locomotivebreath1901 on December 10, 2008 at 8:03 AM
And yet he is under no obligation to answer someone who is not earnestly seeking. Jesus at times was coy with his answers to the Pharisees. That didn’t mean he was timid, but wise.
RegularJoe on December 10, 2008 at 8:05 AM
Where does it say in scripture that God uses another path besides Jesus? This does not limit God. God built a bridge in the shape of a cross so mankind could come to Him. All roads might lead to this bridge, but this bridge is the only bridge across the gap between Man and God to Heaven. Is there another bridge by which we may enter Heaven and be saved? Is there any other name we can call on besides Jesus that we may be saved? Can you show it to me in scripture?
abcurtis on December 10, 2008 at 8:07 AM
Yahweh is not the God of the Muslims, Allah is. Allah and Yahweh are diametrically opposed to each other. If Allah and Yahweh are the same, then Allah has a son, and a Muslim will come close to killing you for stating that.
Muslims trace their lineage back to Abraham through Ishmael, this, they think, gives them some sort of birthright because Ishmael was Abraham’s first born son, although illegitimately. Yahweh is the God of the Jews and the Christians, not the Muslims.
And call me close-minded if you want, but what I say I can back up. My mind is not so open my brains have fallen out.
abcurtis on December 10, 2008 at 8:15 AM
Not all of them are going to Hell, just as not all Christians are going to Heaven. Jesus made it plain the Nicodemus that salvation is not a birthright. Any Gentile or Jew dying apart from Jesus will NOT enter the kingdom of Heaven. Period. There are Jews who have recognized their Messiah, and Scripture tells us there will be 144,000 sealed Jews during the tribulation that will carry the gospel forward into the world at that time.
So never, ever make the blanket statement that Jews are going to Hell and dont make the blanked statement that all Christians are going to Heaven.
We seem pre-occupied with who is and who is not going to Hell. Why not just share the gospel and let the individual make up his or her own mind?
abcurtis on December 10, 2008 at 8:27 AM
How do Jews make atonement for sin in a manner prescribed by Yahweh, since the Ark of the Covenant is long gone, and the Temple was destroyed over 2000 years ago so there have been no temple sacrifices? God was very specific in the OT how his people were to come to him – through blood sacrifice. The fact of the matter is, as told to me by a Messianic Jew, they have no way apart from Jesus to make atonement for sin. Good does not get you into Heaven, both the OT and the NT are clear on this. And yes, God did and still does have a plan to save Israel – through Yeshua Messiach. Messiah came to the Jew first to make the ultimate and perfect blood sacrifice for them, but most have rejected him. And because of the behavior of the so-called Christian church that has persecuted the Jews over the last two millennia, I dont wonder why they continue to reject Jesus and hate us.
My prayer for Israel is the same as the Apostle Paul’s – that all of Israel would be saved.
abcurtis on December 10, 2008 at 8:37 AM
This is true, but Bush is not Jesus and has no reason to be coy. Jesus did not give the Pharisees direct answers because as he said, they wouldnt believe him anyway. So some things he kept hidden from them because they did not deserve to know. Why? Because they knew the law and the prophets, added to each, and rejected Messiah. Jesus was giving them what they asked for.
And why is Bush under no obligation to give an answer to someone who is not earnestly seeking? This is contrary to scripture, as 1st Peter 3:15 says –
But then, Bush says he does not take scripture literally so I guess he’d ignore this too.
Sorry. I have no respect for someone professing to be a Christian but wont be honest about what he believes. And that includes the president of these United States.
abcurtis on December 10, 2008 at 8:44 AM
He wasnt a witch doctor – he was a Pentecostal minister from Africa. BIG difference.
abcurtis on December 10, 2008 at 8:53 AM
Can you show me the specific verse n scripture? If Jesus descended into Hell, then did the thief on the cross go with him? After all Jesus told the thief “this day you will be WITH me.”
abcurtis on December 10, 2008 at 9:01 AM
One-time-only get out of jail free card? As an agnostic I think that’s so unfair. I bet a lot of those who converted in hell wouldn’t have been Christians even if they’d heard the word before. But once you’re in hades and then Christ comes along to offer a way out, I bet most would go for it. What’s the downside? Now they get to be in heaven and I’ll be stuck in hell for eternity.
DarkCurrent on December 10, 2008 at 9:01 AM
So you think the reporter in this case was prepared to believe him?
Bush clearly EITHER lied about his beliefs, or doesn’t really believe the Bible. Since someone who believes the Bible would not generally lie about his beliefs, I have to conclude that his disbelief is genuine, which is sad.
If I may say, ABCurtis, your zeal and knowledge are admirable; but (as one who is almost certainly older) may I suggest that you should take care to demonstrate more grace? I suspect your zeal is born of concern for others, but (I wish I could say this privately, which would be much more correct) you come across as somewhat brusque and self-righteous. I ask only that you look at your own posts prayerfully, and with an open heart, and consider whether there are changes you should make.
RegularJoe on December 10, 2008 at 9:08 AM
Being the absolute and creator of the universe, God knows all past and present and future. Therefore he knows who’s going to hell even before he creates their souls, right?
DarkCurrent on December 10, 2008 at 9:13 AM
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