Triggerism, Trutherism, and Birtherism
posted at 9:00 am on December 5, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Michelle takes a close look at the conspiracy-theory impulse on the Left, Right, and fringe today in her syndicated column. Whether one thinks that Sarah Palin has to prove her maternity of Trig or that Barack Obama has to produce a witness to his birth in Hawaii or that the 19 al-Qaeda terrorists actually flew commercial jetliners into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, the real truth is that these conspiracy theories become belief systems based on conjecture and speculation rather than actual facts and evidence:
The plain truth will never mollify a Truther. There’s always a convoluted excuse – some inconsequential discrepancy to seize on, some photographic “evidence” to magnify into a blur of meaningless pixels – that will rationalize irrationality. Palin could produce Trig’s umbilical cord and it still wouldn’t be enough.
Alas, Trutherism thrives on both the left and right. Which brings us to the spate of lawsuits challenging President-elect Barack Obama’s U.S. citizenship. On Friday, the U.S. Supreme Court considers one of those suits filed by New Jersey citizen Leo Donofrio, who maintains that Obama is not a “natural born citizen” because his father held British citizenship.
There may be a seed of a legitimate constitutional issue to explore here (how is the citizenship requirement enforced for presidential candidates, anyway?) And at least Donofrio concedes that Obama was born in Hawaii. But a dangerously large segment of the birth certificate hunters have lurched into rabid Truther territory. The most prominent crusader against Obama’s American citizenship claim, lawyer Philip Berg (who, not coincidentally, is also a prominent 9/11 Truther), disputes that Obama was born in Hawaii and claims that Obama’s paternal grandmother told him she saw Obama born in Kenya.
Berg and his supporters further assert that the “Certification of Live Birth” produced by Obama was altered or forged. They claim that the contemporaneous birth announcement in a Hawaii newspaper of Obama’s birth is insufficient evidence that he was born there. (Did a fortune-teller place it in the paper knowing he would run for president?). And they accuse anyone who disagrees with them of being part and parcel of the grand plan to install Emperor Obama and usurp the rule of law.
I believe Trig was born to Sarah Palin. I believe Barack Obama was born in Hawaii on U.S. soil. I believe fire can melt steel and that bin Laden’s jihadi crew – not Bush and Cheney – perpetrated mass murder on 9/11. What kind of kooky conspiracist does that make me?
Just read the comments section, Michelle, and you’ll soon find out. (The column is also at NRO in shorter form.)
Update: Case in point, as e-mailed to me by Allahpundit. Everyone else’s conspiracy theories are kooky, except for Andrew’s. Andrew claims that no documentary evidence exists of Palin’s pregnancy, but that overlooks this report from her doctor:
The letter, dated Nov. 3, is from Dr. Cathy Baldwin-Johnson, who works at the Providence Health and Services Alaska clinic in Anchorage.
Ms. Palin, Dr. Baldwin-Johnson wrote, has been a patient at the clinic since 1991. She said Ms. Palin’s visits “have been related to routine women’s health care and pregnancy.”
Ms. Palin gave birth to her five children in 1989, 1990, 1994, 2000 and 2008. Regarding the birth of her fifth child, Trig, Dr. Baldwin-Johnson said Ms. Palin had “no risk factors other than her age.”
Don’t stop believin’, Andrew!
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No but I notices a extra crease in Biden’s suit the other day…and you know what an extra fold does…it means he is a forger.
right2bright on December 5, 2008 at 4:50 PM
But you said all powerful men and leaders are mason’s…all of them.
What does your church say about false accusations…isn’t that a sin?
Bush is a mason? Reid is a mason? Kennedy? Romney? Huck is a mason, he is a leader, Huck is satanist Mason according to you.
I did look one thing up, because it is a “secret society”, Catholics are not supposed to be a Mason…can’t keep secrets from those priests…
right2bright on December 5, 2008 at 4:55 PM
If my parent was a US citizen when I was born it doesn’t matter if they were ever a citizen somewhere else.
But Barack Obama Sr. was not an American citizen, ever.
justincase on December 5, 2008 at 4:56 PM
Yeah, the people on this thread who are asking for Obama to produce his birth certificate sure are truthers. /sarc
What about the people who claimed that Mitt Romney’s allegiance to the U.S. would be in doubt because he is a Mormon? Remember writing this little gem?
Be careful how you throw labels around.
Y-not on December 5, 2008 at 5:01 PM
Oh, old enough to be Retired Navy… and a small business owner involved in software development, as if it mattered to the discussion.
Your basic arguement is that when asked, he does not have to produce adequate proof of his constitutional requirements to be President.
Or that he took ANOTHER lawyers advice that the document in question would be adequate (when it clearly, legaly, is not)… and is either too lazy, or too stupid to put this to rest by releasing his long form birth certificate, just as McCain did when this exact same question came up about him.
That he would rather spend Hundreds of thousands on Legal Fees, and take this all the way to the Supreme Court, instead of producing the document is nonsensical.
Legaly, economicly, moraly, and even politicaly, if there is nothing to hide in that document, it makes no sense not to release it.
But to flip this a bit… why don’t you just call on him to release the document, to shut people like me up? Because I am not a “truther” as you so claim, and once that long form is in COURT, or at least vetted by some experts, I’ll go away.
Romeo13 on December 5, 2008 at 5:02 PM
http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/
LOL, funny you should ask… this guy has…
Romeo13 on December 5, 2008 at 5:06 PM
I have no problem, and he came out and exclaimed that he would follow the constitution before his “prophet”. That was good enough for me to suggest he would make a good VP or cabinet person…you seem to have not found those posts of me promoting him for that.
BTW, his word was good enough, I didn’t ask for a sworn statement, or have some guy on youtube tell me what to believe.
The Mormon’s are sworn to follow the “living prophet”, they feel he is the spokesperson for God on earth. Mitt saying he doesn’t follow that line, was good enough for me.
right2bright on December 5, 2008 at 5:10 PM
SaintOlaf is an ignorant arrogant asshole. He does not know what he is talking about in the slightest.
My father, who died Dec. 7 ‘06, was a Mason. They are all good people who do many great things to help many people.
You think my dad was some cult-Satanist? Kiss my ass, jerk. Why don’t you return your empty head to the posterior of your saviour, The Huckaphony, so we in the real world can’t hear your demented ravings? Do us a favor and smother yourself in Huckness. You might smell better.
Brian1972 on December 5, 2008 at 5:23 PM
I think that the burden of proof to establish that you are eligible to be sworn into the highest office in the land should be higher than someone’s “word,” particularly when that someone has demonstrated himself to be a consistent liar.
Y-not on December 5, 2008 at 5:23 PM
Also, I have examined my own birth certificate and I have concluded something shocking:
I AM SARAH PALIN’S BABY!!!1!!1!!
Brian1972 on December 5, 2008 at 5:25 PM
Did I say all Masons are satanists, or just 33rd degree Masons?
Who is the ignorant arrogant one now?
Was your dad a 33rd degree Mason?
SaintOlaf on December 5, 2008 at 5:26 PM
I will have to sue myself until I admit my dark secret to myself. The shame I have had to live with in the last five minutes is unbearable, and demands compensation.
I want a piece of that upcoming bookdeal, MOMMY!!1!
Brian1972 on December 5, 2008 at 5:28 PM
Go jerk off Alex Jones you freak. I have nothing to say to you, since you do not live in the real world.
All Masons are good people. Accept it, because it’s true.
Brian1972 on December 5, 2008 at 5:30 PM
Satanist and 33rd degree Mason Aleister Crowley in full Masonic garb.
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/aqc/crowley_mason.jpg
SaintOlaf on December 5, 2008 at 4:49 PM
Either you believe Aleister Crowley is a good man or YOU do not live in the real world.
SaintOlaf on December 5, 2008 at 5:37 PM
310 posts… whew. Without reading all of them because I was at work all day and missed out on the conversation, I gotta say.
Comparing those who are suspicious as to Obama’s birthplace to those who believe 9/11 was a inside job is throwing long at the very least. In 9/11 we have a terrorist group that has celebrated and claimed responsibilty for the terrorist attack. On the BC we have a President Elect that is going through extordinary steps to make sure his BC does not come under public scrutiny.
9/11 truthers want U.S. government officals to confess to crimes they didn’t commit.
BC “truthers” are no such thing, they are just smart enough not to trust the DNC, Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Ried, and especially the frequent lying Barrack Obama who’s whole adult life is being hidden from public scrutiny, to include his college years, his community organizing years, his Annenburg years, and his Illinois senate years.
What happened to transparency in the Obama administration? Oh wait, he was probably talking about transparency for Republican’s only….
Hog Wild on December 5, 2008 at 5:38 PM
A picture? you are going off a Picture?
What about the Roman Catholic Crusades? Whom wore flowing robes and dressed in BLACK, not white. What about those Rabbi’s whom wear BALCK and not white robes?
Do you know anything about what you speak of other then what is written by men whom have never been in the Masons?
Seriously, to become a Mason you have to go through tests. And why do they go through them… to see if they can keep a secret. It isn’t a SECRET Society! It is a society on quiet revelation and how to Worship GOD in all respects.
You will NEVER see a Mason, push Christianity down your throat, as most supposed Christians do. You will never see a Mason not lend a helping hand. BTW they also don’t have secret orgies either. The reason they are quiet is because people are stupid and spread to much gossip. It is like going to the Mormon Churches. You can see outside, but only those whom are part of the “Church” can go in. And I respect that of Mormons. Can you?
Give it up will you.
This is about “conspiracies” on this blog thread, not secret societies.
upinak on December 5, 2008 at 5:46 PM
Heh. A commenter over at Michelle’s says “Can’t we all just agree [he's] Rosemary’s Baby?”
meltenn on December 5, 2008 at 5:54 PM
So when members of a secret society DOMINATE politics on both sides of the aisle and DOMINATE the mainstream media….that is not a conspiracy?
BTW I am talking about 33rd degree Masons and the seperate group they swear allegiance to….not the lower level freemasons.
Big difference.
SaintOlaf on December 5, 2008 at 5:56 PM
Prove whom is in the Masons.
Unless they say they are, you have no proof.
Prove they exsist! I am sure you have all the stupid Mason crap bookmarked. But I doubt you can prove anything.
upinak on December 5, 2008 at 5:59 PM
Yes, see
“PRESIDENT?” CHESTER ARTHUR et al – WHY THEY AREN’T PRECEDENT FOR OBAMA’S ELIGIBILITY
marti124 on December 5, 2008 at 6:09 PM
I already posted a video list of 33rd degree masons earlier.
For the proof that the majority of politicians on both sides of aisle are illuminati members…look at the treasonous and globalist, Council on Foreign Relations roster.
The group, set up by illuminist David Rockefeller, openly supports a one world government and almost all politicians on both sides of the aisle belong to this anti-American group.
SaintOlaf on December 5, 2008 at 6:10 PM
Olaf… your crap list is anything but real.
I have other things to do with my time then argue with a book reading secret society work of fiction wishing Christian wannabe who thinks everyone is out to get him.
Thanks for playing Olaf.. you just showed total ignorance.
upinak on December 5, 2008 at 6:13 PM
Okay, obvious question. How many of you defenders of the Constitution have actually seen President Bush’s birth certificate? How about Sarah Palin’s? No? Dick Cheney’s?
I thought not.
Brainster on December 5, 2008 at 6:52 PM
In which you, being the fact you aren’t running for any political office, can’t say much since you wouldn’t know and haven’t seen it either.
You do realize others, who have run for political office and have turned over their “information” is out that beautiful thing called the internet. What a concept huh!
upinak on December 5, 2008 at 7:00 PM
Having ‘reasonable doubt’ over an issue does not make one a truther. Rather, it makes one a cautious person, one who would prefer that clarity prevail – before making any final judgement.
OldEnglish on December 5, 2008 at 7:05 PM
Uh, well, when McCain was questioned on whether he was eligable, he released his…
Romeo13 on December 5, 2008 at 7:06 PM
And that is the point. Any President would easily release his/her BC. No problem.
And for those who think this should die and move on… Why did the founding fathers think citizenship was important enough to make it a requirement and yet many here including MM care to let it go. Why have a Constitution if nothing in it is preserved or defended!!!
katy on December 5, 2008 at 7:28 PM
You are Satan’s liar…you stated all the powerful men were mason…
Satan has made you a liar, stating false accusation. You son of Satan, even Satan will quote scripture to capture of hearts with lies…purge yourself of Satan, beg forgiveness for your sin of false accusation…how dare you in the name of Jesus Christ, your savior, that you sin against innocent men, you satanist, you are going to hell. You cloak yourself in faith, like a wolf in sheep’s clothing…but you lie in the name of Christ, false witnessing in his name, taking his name in vain and making a lie out of His church…Satan couldn’t be prouder of his son, SaintOlaf, now that he has you bearing false witness, he used you like a tool, and now you are his…selling your faith for such a small price.
Satan is laughing at your stupidity and how easy it was to turn you, you are his now, son of Satan.
right2bright on December 5, 2008 at 8:04 PM
McCain’s was a copy…but I don’t remember how many folds his had, do you?
right2bright on December 5, 2008 at 8:05 PM
Wow. That’s just as retarded as saying all Masons are rotten apples.
Dark-Star on December 5, 2008 at 8:09 PM
Here is John McCain’s birth certificate…notice it is not signed. I suspect it is not the original or not official without the signature or the embossment.
right2bright on December 5, 2008 at 8:14 PM
Connie on December 5, 2008 at 8:17 PM
In other words do not feed the Trolls or the Loons by opening up the trough for them to come forth and dine.
Let them eat over in the PUMA fever swamp where they belong.
AprilOrit on December 5, 2008 at 8:21 PM
Interpreting the intention of the words of others is not one of your strengths, but you’re certainly free to think what you want.
Connie on December 5, 2008 at 8:31 PM
His birth has been verified – in the USA – it’s over.
He won, it’s over, whatever. I didn’t vote for him but the majority did, and as Allah said the day after the election – he is my President.
I refuse to emulate bad behavior and act like The Left acted over Bush. I mean – again – are we all going to start acting the way the KOS kids acted in 2000?
Hillary created some serious monsters however – those PUMSa are beyond pyscho. They are this year’s new insane.
AprilOrit on December 5, 2008 at 8:37 PM
And certainly not one of yours either.
I will stand by my comment. Thanks for reminding me of my rights.
AprilOrit on December 5, 2008 at 8:38 PM
Excuse me? Verified? NOT…
Please don’t try to pontificate on matters you have not bothered to research.
Romeo13 on December 5, 2008 at 8:50 PM
As Michelle wrote –
Berg and his supporters further assert that the “Certification of Live Birth” produced by Obama was altered or forged. They claim that the contemporaneous birth announcement in a Hawaii newspaper of Obama’s birth is insufficient evidence that he was born there. (Did a fortune-teller place it in the paper knowing he would run for president?). And they accuse anyone who disagrees with them of being part and parcel of the grand plan to install Emperor Obama and usurp the rule of law.
It’s done, it’s over.
The plain truth will never mollify a Truther. There’s always a convoluted excuse – some inconsequential discrepancy to seize on, some photographic “evidence” to magnify into a blur of meaningless pixels – that will rationalize irrationality.
AMEN
AprilOrit on December 5, 2008 at 8:57 PM
Ha! Even Gawker thinks the Trig Truthers are nuts (I refuse to give them a link after they posted Palin’s emails and used them to harass her kids – and, by the way, they can still be accessed on their site.). If Gawker thinks you’re over the line that should clue you in that you’re so far past it that you can’t even see it anymore. Who else thinks the Trig Truthers won’t notice?
meltenn on December 5, 2008 at 9:04 PM
Unless you have seen the youtube video, and can recite the 5 wrongs, you have no say.
Here are the steps to becoming a birtherist:
First visit Berg’s website, don’t pay attention to the 9/11 stuff, we know he is crazy…but read the stuff about Obama’s BC, Berg is not crazy there, that was the other Berg.
Next download the youtube video, there is 5, that’s right, 5 reasons that the COLB is a phony (ignore the one about the folds, that was a mistake, and ignore the one about the border that was a mistake also, and the seal is okay, so one or two are really authentic to this unknown “expert”)
Now you have to repeat those 5 things over and over and over and over.
BTW, did you know McCain’s birth certificate wasn’t signed?
Anyway, after that you will be an expert.
Summation of an expert:
Review Berg’s website, watch youtube video.
You are now an expert.
Please do not post until you have done those things…otherwise you don’t know what you are talking about.
right2bright on December 5, 2008 at 9:07 PM
Although I would still like to know the real story behind INSLAW, who really killed Danny Casolaro and who the Octopus really is.
AprilOrit on December 5, 2008 at 9:11 PM
I am sorry, I refuse to buy into it. I am not listening to a kook like Berg. Nor should you.
Just as I would have been appalled by the same behavior of The Lonney Left had McCain won. They would have pulled the same crap.
Tell me right – when does/will it end?
Not until there is total submission by the side that has won? This is what The left wanted from us over Bush, now we assume their position and follow suit?
AprilOrit on December 5, 2008 at 9:16 PM
As a red meat eater, I LOVE these threads! Unlike myths, this particular matter is real, and deserves a real answer. For example, a COLB serves only to verify a live birth. In this particular case it goes not certify where!
OldEnglish on December 5, 2008 at 9:21 PM
Then you are not allowed to learn the secret handshake of the birterists…you are an outcast.
Watch and learn:
See that is how you must learn to post.
Forget the fact that the COLB states place of birth as Honolulu (but not Hawaii), it could have been Honolulu, Kenya.
Until ApriOrit youi learn the 5, oops now 6, reasons you will not be an “expert”, and therefore you are not allowed to comment.
Or to paraphrase SNL…AprilOrit, you ignorant slut…
right2bright on December 5, 2008 at 9:41 PM
Got it…LOL
AprilOrit on December 5, 2008 at 9:43 PM
Here is John McCain’s birth certificate…notice it is not signed. I suspect it is not the original or not official without the signature or the embossment.
You’ll notice that birth certificate names the hospital and the doctor attending. (I don’t know about embossments.)
Which hospital was Obama born in?
Why does no one know?
Whey can we NOT know?
What is the state secret?
Doesn’t this bother you?
We have an upcoming president and we aren’t allowed to know which hospital he was born in.
It bothers me, and I’m no nut or “truther.”
I do, though, have common sense, which oodles of people seem to have taken their leave of, for fear of how they might “appear” to people they don’t even know and will never meet.
Alana on December 5, 2008 at 9:58 PM
Incorrect. Place of register, post-partum, Honolulu. That is the place where the mother registered the birth, in attempt to ensure US citizenship. It, in no way, certifies that the birth took place in Honolulu. I’m sure you are well aware of Hawaiian law at that time, regarding the allowance of “other” births to be registered there.
OldEnglish on December 5, 2008 at 10:03 PM
Show me examples of where that happened…this has been blogged about for weeks, I am sure someone has posted several instances of what you say can happen. I mean everyone is talking about it, as if it was common practice. So I am sure you have many examples.
Please, link it for me…thanks…
right2bright on December 5, 2008 at 10:07 PM
Obama claims as his birth hospital Kapi’ olani Medical Center
right2bright on December 5, 2008 at 10:16 PM
Ed, that something is missing does not mean that something does not exist. Aligning with a juvenile argument because it is more comfortably aligned with your limited environment hardly eliminates the existence of what is absent.
Though it may influence interpretation or practice, popularity does not equate to Constitutional law.
When you disclaim the legality of the Constitution because it seems reasonable and practical to do so, that is wrong. When you excuse yourself on account of a strong personal bias, bigotry occurs. This is a difficult thing to comprehend as your mindset is firmly entrenched in your own self interests that literally disregard the finer points within the Constitution. What a shame. Derision of differing opinions does not destroy an opponent except in the eyes of the weak.
Over the years I reflect on how John began his account of truth. “In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God.” When the word is revised, history is lost, tradition is lost, meaning is lost, relevance is lost, memory is gone. It is not that nothing may change. Your style is changing. But when the salt loses its savor, it is good for nothing.
To repeat, Ed, I respectfully disagree with your assessment of our Constitution as it regards every POTUS. It appears that you draw the line in the sand and smear those who see things differently so as to feel better about your own perceptions. In attempting to prove your argument, you change the subject to rile everyone to your cause. Beyond disappointing, that proves ironic as your premise was to be logical, calm, cool and collected. But then, your premise was not to prove Constitutional merit. Your circle is using influence to convert rule of law into whatever Michelle wants as most politically expedient and advantageous to her own cult. No matter the good intentions for what seems to promote congeniality, that would be a disgusting power play. Whatever political sway Malkin has hardly adds one whit of intelligence to her false premise. She has her own flaws.
That nothing is all good or all bad is to be understood.
maverick muse on December 5, 2008 at 10:33 PM
Yes, please do…
AprilOrit on December 5, 2008 at 10:34 PM
Notice the how the conspiracy spins…
“His birth certificate isn’t signed!”
“Neither is John McCain’s. They don’t have to be.”
“It doesn’t list the place of birth!”
When Point A disputes your theory, don’t question the theory. Find something else to defend the theory. Protecting the theory, not questioning the theory, is your primary goal. And thus, it’s not a theory at all. It’s a belief tenet.
Mal Carne on December 5, 2008 at 10:40 PM
Thank you, right2bright. I should have been more specific.
What I meant was I think we should have that that information come from something more official than Obama’s sister, particularly since it has also been reported that he was born in Queen’s Hospital.
(I haven’t been able to find where Obama himself said which hospital he was born in; do you have a link?)
And particularly since people report having checked with the hospitals and found no record of his having been born there (whether or not those reports are believable is another issue).
Something official – like the official long-form birth certificate – would do. I would like a judge to see and confirm that.
Mind you, I think he WAS born in Honolulu! As I said in this or the other thread, there is the application to school in Indonesia, where “Honolulu” was listed as his birthplace, years ago, which is further evidence to me.
But what we have is a man who won’t share this information unless forced. Along with all his other sealed records. A man who will let money be wasted in a number of court cases, just to make sure no one can see it. Who will let people distrust him rather than share basic information.
That bothers me, and I’m no nutcase. Why can’t we see these various documents? Don’t you even wonder?
Alana on December 5, 2008 at 10:50 PM
I know you are not one of the nutty ones.
No, I don’t really wonder, I think it will come out in one of these cases…I know that I would not, if I were him, respond to these calls. He fulfilled the legal requirements that was asked of him.
I am no fan of him, but he is right by giving only what is needed.
We have seen how any bit of info about Bush is taken out of context and “blown up”. Every little nuance (he was reading a childs book during 9/11), he was flying in a plane over Katrina, the CBS Dan Rather junk, it goes on and on, he met with the Arab prince, his father, his mother, his brother, Skull and Bones, endlessly…
Obama did exactly, if I was his attorney (and I am not one, however my two kids are), what was required and only what is required and no more.
If he states some hospital, and for some reason they don’t have those records, maybe they transferred them…then imagine the blow back…
A smart attorney only gives the information needed, and he did that.
right2bright on December 5, 2008 at 11:12 PM
A commonplace event is not necessary for a law to be both valid and spoken of. It merely needs to be in place. People who demand examples are usually the sort who seek to cast further doubt on a doubtful subject. To quote the existence of the law is valid, nothing more is required. See your own post above.
OldEnglish on December 5, 2008 at 11:35 PM
Sigh, Obama has not released anything… they showed a document to a website… that by the way was owned by people that Obama had once worked for, and was funded, in part, by the Obama organization.
Please explain to me, why he would not be willing to release his long form birth cert?
And not just a… well… Lawyers never release information they don’t have to, becase this is a POLITICAL question, not just a legal question.
I am glad that you found others who hold your same mindset… that we as American citizens don’t have the RIGHT to question those we have elected… now I understand how tyrany begins.
Romeo13 on December 5, 2008 at 11:39 PM
PS… interestingly enough, the Supremes have NOT announced they will take the case… even though they did post announcements they would take a couple of others…
Things do not look good for the Right to Petition for Redress for the American people…. or the trust that those who SWORE to uphold the Constitution, will do so.
Romeo13 on December 5, 2008 at 11:42 PM
Conspiracy theories:
Moon landing… YES
Ufos… NO
Loch Ness monster… YES
Bigfoot… Michelle Obama
Illuminati… NO
Bilderbergers / CFR… YES
Freemasons… NO
JFK / RFK assassinations… NO,
meaning I reject official versions
911… ditto, it was rogue spooks
from our government
As for Obama “smears”… NO,
he cried wolf too many times
Muslim, foreigner, communist… YES
chunderroad on December 6, 2008 at 12:12 AM
Thank you!!
AprilOrit on December 6, 2008 at 12:17 AM
It appears that fear and political correctness might trump the Constitution, in the most explicit way. If that ends up being the case, then we will have thrown out any concept of our Constitutional Republic and will have turned into a true Democracy, which will thrill all those who have no idea what lay at the foundation of America’s greatness, and the mob shall have its way from now on. I cannot think of any sadder an occurence.
progressoverpeace on December 6, 2008 at 12:17 AM
You forgot to mention –
Bohemian Grove
Dan Casolaro
INSLAW
The Octopus
Vince Foster
WACO
Franklin Savings and Loan
blah
blah
blah
AprilOrit on December 6, 2008 at 12:19 AM
Oh and I forgot another one – the favorite of KOS a few years back –
Jeff Gannon is really Johnny Gosch.
AprilOrit on December 6, 2008 at 12:22 AM
the people who are trying to determine if Trig is really Palin’s child, are basically a mirror image of the people chasing Obama’s BC. One is left, one is right, but they both are basically applying the same tactics…
Obama has given the authorities what they need, and what they demanded…a official certificate of birth….
They don’t care is some group of nuts are crying foul…Obama met the letter of the law…
Show me where he has to show anyone the original BC…what he has shown is official, documented, accepted as a passport.
Now here is the challenge, and when I get up tomorrow morning I know I will have the answer from you brilliant posters.
Show me the evidence of others, that have a certificate of birth, and were born elsewhere but was shown on the certificate as Hawaii.
You have been blogging this for weeks, so you must have many examples by now.
right2bright on December 6, 2008 at 12:39 AM
Amen, sister. It doesn’t make a lick of sense for him to refuse to provide his Certificate of Live Birth. IF HE’S TELLING THE TRUTH, HE’S GOT N-O-T-H-I-N-G TO LOSE.
IMHO, everyone should stay on this until there are no more opportunities for appeal. This IS a Constitutional issue. I’m sure most of us assumed there MUST be a way to confirm one’s fitness for the office of the Presidency per Article II, and now we’ve discovered that may not be the case.
But in addition to all the usual suspects, some unusual ones like Michelle and Ed are saying “Ehhh … take his word for it.” Sorry, not me. Mr. “My State Senate Records may have been thrown out” doesn’t get a pass from me. Same with Mr. “The abortion bill I voted against threatened Roe v. Wade.” Neither does Mr. “He is someone in my neighborhood” or Mr. “I will agree to accept public funding.” BARACK OBAMA HAS NOT EARNED THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT.
L.N. Smithee on December 6, 2008 at 1:14 AM
And they are so predictable, always running with torches looking for the boogeyman/monster.
It’s like a bad horror movie…Trutherstein or Truther Zombies From Hell, Night of the Living Truthers….
These are the same types who William F Buckley railed against in the 60s…
AprilOrit on December 6, 2008 at 1:41 AM
My final word on this matter. Quoting the existence of a law, and the possibility that someone would use it to their advantage, does not indicate that one needs to have examples of such for the quote to be valid. The law existed, for whatever reason, so a simple piece of paper – without corroborating evidence, is meaningless in a court of law. If the laws within the Constitution do not need to be upheld to the satisfaction of the Court, there is no point to them at all.
OldEnglish on December 6, 2008 at 1:48 AM
It’s a losing battle, OldEnglish. These folks don’t care one whit about the Constitution, or any law at all. They seem to be very at-home with the BHO concept that courts should rule by “fairness” (code for whatever is popular) and empathy (code for unrestrained judicial fiat).
Judging by what I’ve seen, here, I’m surprised that the idiot messiah didn’t win by 20%.
It’ll be morbidly interesting to see what they try and argue when the next amnesty gets stuffed down our throats (after their having shown so much much contempt for the Constitution and procedure in this debate) and the illusion of US sovereignty is totally done away with.
This is how it ends.
progressoverpeace on December 6, 2008 at 2:10 AM
I don’t care for bullies – no matter what side of the aisle they’re on. You’ve applied bully tactics ever since you registered here. You have attempted to marginalize anyone who did not agree with you on McCain (and I was one of them, but I worked like mad to get him elected because I detest everything Obama stands for). You are loud, aggressive, obnoxious, and cannot complete a post without name-calling. Ed & Michelle, if they disagreed with those who want Obama to fork his info over (and not simply his bc, but other pertinent info) should have simply disregarded it and not bothered to have posted at all on it. That they did shows their insecurity. Like I said in the post that you misinterpreted, it was not obligatory that Ed post the thread yesterday. He did. He had regrets, then proceeded to attempt to marginalize all those who thought differently than he does. This is no different from what Kathleen Parker is doing and it is no different than what Obama did by pre-emptively suggesting that anyone who opposed him had to be a racist. I said in Ed’s other post that I hadn’t followed this controversy closely enough to be able to comment on legalities, but that I think that Obama (with the help of the media) has tried to completely shutter any inquiry into his past and that we have elected someone no one knows. Knock off your high-handedness (and right2bright, as well, (who seems to have too much time on his or her hands). If Obama had been forthright about anything at all, there would be no questions – just opposition. Stop behaving like a spoiled brat who’s been allowed to think you are are some kind of genius because believe me, you’re not.
Connie on December 6, 2008 at 2:54 AM
The One should not be bothered!
I notice that none of the people who want to put the citizenship issue to rest want to phrase it in the right way:
We have about four pages on The One including academic, employment even medical forms. And to ask for a long form birth certificate or proof that he is constitutionally qualifies is outrageous. This is despite the – shall we say, international and mirky – life he has led. We should also look past the fact that the con man had rivals disposed of with such issues of moment as divorce records and contested signatures, he shouldn’t have to deal with this silliness. Like having one legal name!
Liberals are happy to Mone On! yet again.
IlikedAUH2O on December 6, 2008 at 4:35 AM
Obama “applied” for a job, it ends when proper paperwork is summited just like any other job applicaint.
It seems odd to me on this issue (POTUS) that people are willing to take his word for it when it has been proven over and over again the man is nothing more than another Bill Clinton.
gdonovan on December 6, 2008 at 7:11 AM
Would anyone care to supply a link to a copy of John McCain’s birth certificate? Apparently, a copy was never released to the public… although, oddly enough, when the question of John McCain’s legal status was raised, he supplied a Certificate of Live Birth. Amazing, that – it’s almost as if it’s a document with legitimate legal standing or some such…
http://images.quickblogcast.com/96531-89184/mccain_birth.jpg
Mal Carne on December 6, 2008 at 8:08 AM
Mal Carne there is no doubt that McCain is an American citizen, he had two American parents (one in the service) and was born in a US territory, a US navel base as a matter of fact.
Nice try, doesn’t wash.
gdonovan on December 6, 2008 at 8:19 AM
I’m not asking if McCain was a citizen or not. Why would I care? It’s not like he’s president or anything. Although the issue was, indeed, in question, briefly:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/01/AR2008050103224.html
More to the point, lawsuits were filed to determine McCain’s citizenship. I can find Internet copies of MCCain’s COLB. But not his birth certificate. Go figure.
Mal Carne on December 6, 2008 at 8:38 AM
You can take solace, however, in this “money quote” from the Washington Post article:
Mal Carne on December 6, 2008 at 8:40 AM
Why are you trying to attack McCain as a defense of Obama?
McCain isn’t president elect.
gdonovan on December 6, 2008 at 8:46 AM
By all means, let us have the Supreme Court look at the matter and all documents be presented… once and for all.
gdonovan on December 6, 2008 at 8:49 AM
Because McCain’s case is a direct parallel of Obama’s. Why should the evidence for McCain’s citizenship be less stringent than Obama’s?
Mal Carne on December 6, 2008 at 8:52 AM
Also: Why is this statement invalid?
http://healthuser.hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2008/08-93.pdf
Mal Carne on December 6, 2008 at 8:55 AM
Obama’s case is not a direct parallel, McCains father was not a citizen of Kenya but an officer in the US Armed Forces deployed at a US base.
gdonovan on December 6, 2008 at 8:56 AM
Again, attacking McCain does not prove a case for Obama.
gdonovan on December 6, 2008 at 8:58 AM
I’m not attacking McCain. I wish the man nothing but the best.
But his cizitenship was is question while he was running, just like Obama’s. It doesn’t matter if McCain’s father was Kenyan, an American solider, or Jesus Christ – a non-citizen is a non-citizen. Assuming you can define it well, which the Washington Post article say you can’t.
When the question came up, McCain’s COLB was presented. I cannot find an online copy of McCain’s birth certificate online anywhere. I’ve heard people say that he presented it, mind you, but no online copy exists.
Mal Carne on December 6, 2008 at 9:05 AM
Do they not teach critical thinking in school anymore?
“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record. “Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures. “No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai‘i.”
All the statement above claims is Hawaii has Obama’s Birth Certicate, nothing more.
And Hawaii will issue a COLB to almost anyone, even those born outside the US. This information is on the Hawaii.gov website if you took the time to look.
The money quote-
“A person born in a foreign country who has been legally adopted in the State of Hawaii. ”
Done arguing with a “moby” do have a nice day and take care.
gdonovan on December 6, 2008 at 9:05 AM
Yes, indeed, goodbye. *laughs*
Gawd, I love conspiracy kooks.
Mal Carne on December 6, 2008 at 9:14 AM
I’m sorry you feel the rule of law isn’t worth following.
gdonovan on December 6, 2008 at 9:16 AM
Please point out for me in the offical statement from Hawaii Director of Health where it states Obama was born there in Hawaii?
You can’t. It isn’t there.
And you take the word of a man who lies more than Bill Clinton and released a COLB on DailyKOS?
scary.
gdonovan on December 6, 2008 at 9:19 AM
To the libtards who want to see Senator McCain’s certificate:
OK, he is not qualified! You win!
Now lets check The One’s records.
The way Senator Mccain really proved he is not qualified is not beating the Empty Suit.
IlikedAUH2O on December 6, 2008 at 9:35 AM
I’m not even sure why we’re bothering to argue anymore, since the Supreme Court declined to even hear the case.
What now, Birthers?
Mal Carne on December 6, 2008 at 9:42 AM
Some of you who contend that BO should not release his BC are acting like we are asking to see his grades, his marriage license or his mortgage. This is not just voyeurism into BO’s life. There is a Constitutional requirement that he be a natural born citizen. We’ve only asked, because there are facts (such as a statement by his grandmother that he was born in Kenya, his travel to Pakistan on a non-American passport, his Indonesian school registry claiming he was Indonesian) that suggest he is not.
A newspaper announcement 9 days after his birth is not contemporaneous. How many marriage and death announcements do you see in your local newspaper for people who use to live in the community but no longer do – or for children of people that do live in the community? If you see a death announcement in the local newspaper, does that mean that the person died in the community? Could they not have died while traveling?
katablog.com on December 6, 2008 at 9:50 AM
Oh, this is just pathetic. I’ve seen interviews where the Direct of the Hawai’i health bureau said yes, he was born in Honolulu. Actually, her press secretary said it, because she’s sick to death of the thing.
Let me ask this: How many people would be needed to conceal Obama’s citizenship to this degree? How many liars are involved? The government of Hawai’i, the Illionis state government… how many people do you think would have to keep their stories straight to keep this under wraps?
Mal Carne on December 6, 2008 at 10:11 AM
Should be easy to provide a link no? Prove it.
Two at least.
What makes you think they even checked?
gdonovan on December 6, 2008 at 10:19 AM
Sure! Here’s your link:
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html
The money quote?
D
Mal Carne on December 6, 2008 at 10:34 AM
Excuse me, but we’ve done a very careful record search, and if you look at those articles its the REPROTERS who say Obama was born in Hawaii, NOT the State Officials themselves.
In Fact, by Law, the State Officials CANNOT release that information. What they have consistantly said was that there is a Legal Birth Cert ONFILE for Obama… not what is on it.
Obama has NOT relased ANY COLB at all, to ANY LEGAL AUTHORITY. Even the Pics of the one we see online are sitting in Chicago, in a campaigan Headquarters, AND HAVE NOT BEEN PRODUCED OR GIVEN TO ANY LEGAL AUTHORITY, INCLUDING SECRETARIES OF STATE, OR ANY COURT.
It PICTURES from a stinking Pro Obama Website.
Romeo13 on December 6, 2008 at 10:39 AM
Um, then said spokesman just broke Hawaii law. The records are sealed, and its illegal for them to give that information out…
And if the state IS willilng to give that information out, then why not just release his Long Form, and be done with it?
Romeo13 on December 6, 2008 at 10:41 AM
Heh. I love it. Classic conspiracy thinking. If the theory’s contradicted, the messenger is wrong. The theory is inviolate.
It’s moot now, anyways. The Supreme Court isn’t hearing the case. There are no legal resources of any sort left. The whole thing is nothing more than fodder for “The Big Book of Conspiracies”. And yes, Barack Obama is going to be President. The tooth fairy isn’t coming. Deal.
Mal Carne on December 6, 2008 at 10:42 AM
So it’s illegal for the Secretary of Health in Hawaii to say that Obama was born in Hawaii? Oh, that is just hilarious! You guys are just flat-out funny now!
Say, can we get the Masons into this conspiracy now? I miss Masons. Or the Illuminati! They’re really cool!
Mal Carne on December 6, 2008 at 10:46 AM
Sigh, actualy, short of a court order, or explicit permision from the individuals involved, yes it is illegal for her to release information on any birth certificate in the files.
Law was put in place to protect the privace of parents who give up their kids for adoption.
But please, don’t let facts, or law, get in the way of you dismissing us as truthers… I know its so much easier to dismiss, than to answer…
Romeo13 on December 6, 2008 at 10:53 AM
WOW! Mal Carne has broken the story!
The article by a Chi Trib and L. A. Times reporter was inconsistent with every other mainstream report on this subject. Not to say the various lawsuit participants. His blockbuster news should be spread about, don’t you think?
I looked at the gentleman’s article. How was I impressed?
He seemed at least as big a cut and paste enthusiast as the two political campaigns. But this was the money quote. And NO journalist would change words or facts for The One. We know that! Yet this tremendous news was ignored. Maybe it wasn’t accurate or so tremendous.
So, OK Carne, go at it.
Get your star reporter (his e-mail is available on the Chicago Tribune’s page and other article reprints) to send his proof (recording or certified notes) to MM or ED or even Fox News or the Washington Times. This breakthrough may go a long way to sinking this whole issue!
And you would bet on the SCOTUS not becoming involved? I would bet that your reporter is not going get involved. I think the quote is inaccurate. So does every other media outlet. But you scratched and found it and believe it.
Now who is ignoring the majority of the evidence? Hhhhmmmmm?
A man who is unqualified on numerous levels may become POTUS. Yes, the tooth fairy isn’t coming.
I am afraid that something far worse is coming!
IlikedAUH2O on December 6, 2008 at 11:06 AM
Is Our friend Carne laughing at the people above?
Before a fool laughs, he should look in the mirror.
Carne, check with the State of Hawaii or any articles on the web or elsewhere pertaining to what state officials there can say. The data on a birth certificate is confidential. Those officials are charged with keeping it that way. Secrets. This is a situation that The One seems to like. So don’t question it with no information or demonstrate your ignorance so loudly.
You see, because the con man from Chicago and Hawaii will not supply records, the national media has really been grabbing at straws trying to settle questions related to even the most elementary qualifications for the august position of POTUS. Not that these sould be relevant but…
The media has been dissecting every word from Hawaiian officials and carefully studying every nuance and sugestion. But the officials could not have said what you and The One’s er, I mean the Chicago Tribune’s reporter said he or she said.
DEAL.
Romeo Rules!
IlikedAUH2O on December 6, 2008 at 11:22 AM
What is interesting now is the LACK of any information from the Supremes on whether they take the case or not…
It could be a very bad sign…
OR, it could be that they understand the ramifications to the Nation of taking the case, and want to inform the President, and Congress, first.
If they take the case, we could very well have rioting here in America… it was threatened by some leaders of Barrak lost… and this will be construed as even worse.
Hate to say it, and sound ominous, but this decision, if based on STANDING to sue, will be the death knell of the People Right to Petition for Redress… because if the People don’t have the Right to question their own elected government, and FORCE them to answer, and make them do their dang job…. then who does?
Romeo13 on December 6, 2008 at 11:52 AM
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