Triggerism, Trutherism, and Birtherism
posted at 9:00 am on December 5, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Michelle takes a close look at the conspiracy-theory impulse on the Left, Right, and fringe today in her syndicated column. Whether one thinks that Sarah Palin has to prove her maternity of Trig or that Barack Obama has to produce a witness to his birth in Hawaii or that the 19 al-Qaeda terrorists actually flew commercial jetliners into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, the real truth is that these conspiracy theories become belief systems based on conjecture and speculation rather than actual facts and evidence:
The plain truth will never mollify a Truther. There’s always a convoluted excuse – some inconsequential discrepancy to seize on, some photographic “evidence” to magnify into a blur of meaningless pixels – that will rationalize irrationality. Palin could produce Trig’s umbilical cord and it still wouldn’t be enough.
Alas, Trutherism thrives on both the left and right. Which brings us to the spate of lawsuits challenging President-elect Barack Obama’s U.S. citizenship. On Friday, the U.S. Supreme Court considers one of those suits filed by New Jersey citizen Leo Donofrio, who maintains that Obama is not a “natural born citizen” because his father held British citizenship.
There may be a seed of a legitimate constitutional issue to explore here (how is the citizenship requirement enforced for presidential candidates, anyway?) And at least Donofrio concedes that Obama was born in Hawaii. But a dangerously large segment of the birth certificate hunters have lurched into rabid Truther territory. The most prominent crusader against Obama’s American citizenship claim, lawyer Philip Berg (who, not coincidentally, is also a prominent 9/11 Truther), disputes that Obama was born in Hawaii and claims that Obama’s paternal grandmother told him she saw Obama born in Kenya.
Berg and his supporters further assert that the “Certification of Live Birth” produced by Obama was altered or forged. They claim that the contemporaneous birth announcement in a Hawaii newspaper of Obama’s birth is insufficient evidence that he was born there. (Did a fortune-teller place it in the paper knowing he would run for president?). And they accuse anyone who disagrees with them of being part and parcel of the grand plan to install Emperor Obama and usurp the rule of law.
I believe Trig was born to Sarah Palin. I believe Barack Obama was born in Hawaii on U.S. soil. I believe fire can melt steel and that bin Laden’s jihadi crew – not Bush and Cheney – perpetrated mass murder on 9/11. What kind of kooky conspiracist does that make me?
Just read the comments section, Michelle, and you’ll soon find out. (The column is also at NRO in shorter form.)
Update: Case in point, as e-mailed to me by Allahpundit. Everyone else’s conspiracy theories are kooky, except for Andrew’s. Andrew claims that no documentary evidence exists of Palin’s pregnancy, but that overlooks this report from her doctor:
The letter, dated Nov. 3, is from Dr. Cathy Baldwin-Johnson, who works at the Providence Health and Services Alaska clinic in Anchorage.
Ms. Palin, Dr. Baldwin-Johnson wrote, has been a patient at the clinic since 1991. She said Ms. Palin’s visits “have been related to routine women’s health care and pregnancy.”
Ms. Palin gave birth to her five children in 1989, 1990, 1994, 2000 and 2008. Regarding the birth of her fifth child, Trig, Dr. Baldwin-Johnson said Ms. Palin had “no risk factors other than her age.”
Don’t stop believin’, Andrew!
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And I also believe that we landed on the moon, Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, and that there is no extraterrestrial things or ideas at “Area 51″ or elsewhere.
And in my world, the sky is blue and the grass is green.
rbj on December 5, 2008 at 9:07 AM
The truthers on the right tend to be the atheist-libertarian types, the Ron Paul folks, etc. And lefties, being naturally godless, are natural born truthers. Who does that leave out? Christians.
It’s ironic to me that we Christians are the ones who get slapped around for being gullible and stupid.
I’m saying that maybe the disease in American discourse is not a lack of rationality, but an obsession with it. Truthers are impeccably logical. Perhaps that’s the malady.
Think it over.
jeff_from_mpls on December 5, 2008 at 9:09 AM
The media/left hate Sarah Palin because she’s so effective and brought us a breath of fresh air. Once we got to know here we really liked her. So she must be destroyed.
perroviejo on December 5, 2008 at 9:09 AM
I believe Obama was born in Hawaii. That being said, it is kind of… strange… that he won’t either produce a birth certificate, or allow Hawaii officials to make it available.
It’s pretty easy to get an official birth certicate for yourself or your kids. I recently did so, by computer and credit card, from different states for myself & my kids. Came in the U.S. mail, didn’t even have to visit the birth state in person. (The states I’ve dealt with often offer a variety of options, depending on the need for official seals, etc.)
I think his COLB is valid- but I don’t think it’s a “birth certificate,” per se. There may be a flame under all that smoke, but it’s probably a tealight candle rather than a forest fire.
cs89 on December 5, 2008 at 9:10 AM
Let me yawn again in response to Obama’s birth certificate maladies. He’s the president-elect. We got past Clinton and we’ll survive Obama.
perroviejo on December 5, 2008 at 9:12 AM
Contemporaneous? 9 days later? It is not stretching one’s imagination too much to believe that indeed Obama was born in Kenya because his mother was too pregnant to fly and that she later registered his birth in Hawaii and announced it. It doesn’t have to be a conspiracy to believe a mother wanted her child to be a US citizen (but couldn’t convey that to him because she was only 18 and the law required she be 19 at the time).
What does stretch one’s imagination is that one would spend thousands of dollars knocking down more than a dozen law suits over the situation rather than simply producing the original copy of the birth certificate – not the Certificate of Live Birth which anyone could get by registering their child’s birth in Hawaii within 1 year of their birth
katablog.com on December 5, 2008 at 9:14 AM
George Washington never existed.
Prove it.
mylegsareswollen on December 5, 2008 at 9:14 AM
Good column Michelle, and good post Ed.
Although there are a few conspiracies that I’m starting to buy into. The Bills lost four Super Bowls in a row, one to Joe Gibbs’ Redskins (Gibbs is a Republican donor), and two to the Cowboys (from Bush country). Even though Jim Kelly is a Republican, it all clearly has GWB’s handiwork all over it.
Plus, who really shot J.R.? Again, it’s oil, money, and Texas. Bush again.
Pope Linus on December 5, 2008 at 9:15 AM
Is it my imagination, or are the fringes on the Left much more populated than those on the Right?
jgapinoy on December 5, 2008 at 9:15 AM
Well, I also believe that we landed on the moon (several times)…
I’m fairly sure Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone (however that “magic bullet” thing and the police officer running toward the grassy knoll keep me from agreeing unequivocally)…
…and while I don’t THINK there’s alien technology in Area 51, as far as alien life in general, allow me to quote from the movie Contact and say “If there isn’t, it’s an awful big waste of space.”
Of course, it’s often cloudy in my world and the grass tends to turn brown…
(not meant as an argument, just saying…)
Religious_Zealot on December 5, 2008 at 9:15 AM
Good point, Christianity and Islam are great examples of what happens when conspiracy theories get out of hand. First you start with pods on planes and thermite and all that junk, and if you are gullible to believe that I bet you’d believe that ghosts can impregnate people, people can rise from the dead, and whole cemetaries can rise from the dead.
LevStrauss on December 5, 2008 at 9:15 AM
Concerning Obama’s citizenship, someone told me that the law was amended such, that as long as his mother was a USA citizen, it didn’t matter where he was born; he would be a “natural born” USA citizen. We got any constitutional scholars in the house?
manwithblackhat on December 5, 2008 at 9:16 AM
Good God! Give the birth certificate thing a rest people! Obama was born in Hawaii; he is a natural born American citizen. Eyes roll… The whole idea of the article is that the birth certificate conspiracy theories make conservatives look as ignorant as the Truthers and Andrew Sullivan.
Illinidiva on December 5, 2008 at 9:17 AM
Wow, the HA bloggers getting defensive. They told the peeps to pipe down, but the peeps won’t do as told.
Hot Air lumps the 9/11 Truthers, the Palin Faux-Pregnancy Truthers and the Obama lawsuits. But one of these 3 is not like the rest. One of these 3 that the HA gang lumps together is before the Supreme Court today. The other two are not. Ed, Clarence Thomas is no Truther.
james23 on December 5, 2008 at 9:17 AM
Er, no. They become belief systems based on a twisted form of wishful thinking.
flipflop on December 5, 2008 at 9:17 AM
Excellent point, another correlation to Christianity and Islam.
LevStrauss on December 5, 2008 at 9:18 AM
Without endorsing any conspiracy theories, it has been suggested that, so long as he was elected, Obama’s citizenship doesn’t matter. I would point out the obvious, that we are a nation under the rule of law, not the tyranny of a mob. There’s a big difference, and whether a candidate is “ex post facto” eligible for office DOES matter. Our Constitution says so, and we are obliged to comply.
Again, this does not lend credence to any accusations being promoted lately. To put it another way…
It’s the Constitution, stupid!
manwithblackhat on December 5, 2008 at 9:20 AM
Mental hospitals are populated with people like you, old friend. Hyper-rational folk who think everything can be worked out in pure logic. Have you ever conversed with a paranoid schizophrenic? They’re impeccably logical. Every piece fits together. The pieces that don’t fit together they’ll stay awake for days trying to work out. Very similar to atheism.
jeff_from_mpls on December 5, 2008 at 9:20 AM
No, it was Cheney. He’s a better shot.
manwithblackhat on December 5, 2008 at 9:21 AM
it’s almost insulting to insist that Trig truthers are on par with birth certificate ‘truthers’!
Obama’s not supplied one person who can attest to the fact that he was born in HI.
Obama’s own grandmother is what started this controversy.
Obama will not supply his birth certificate.
If he’s born in HI, I don’t understand why supplying a birth certificate (!) is so hard to do.
In terms of the argument about his citizenship in Indonesia, I really don’t care…but the birth certificate issue is very relevant.
bloghooligan on December 5, 2008 at 9:22 AM
No tin foil here.
I just want to see the long form with the details.
I don’t want to see Putin, Chavez, Ahmadinejad, et al, rolling over a border, or popping off a nuke, while holding a different birth cert for the president, and declaring him ineligible, and doing as they please.
Show the form – or subpoena Nancy Pelosi who signed his certification for eligibility.
Wander on December 5, 2008 at 9:24 AM
people like conspiracy theories because there is no falsifability and they fit into their already perceived notions of events
they are especially useful to those with no rational though process and who hate a certain individual
like the poster above said ” George Washington did not exist, prove it”
joey24007 on December 5, 2008 at 9:24 AM
“Michelle takes a close look at the conspiracy-theory impulse on the
Leftfringe and the Right.”As for Obarfy, it does seem odd that he won’t produce his actual birth certificate, and that being said, if his U.S. citizenship was ever renounced, he is ineligible for POTUS.
Bishop on December 5, 2008 at 9:26 AM
Wow! That’s one intensely stupid line of reasoning, to try and draw equivalences between all of these – and that’s besides missing the fact that the SCOTUS case today has NOTHING to do with the birth certificate. But don’t let any facts get in your way, there.
The birth certificate thing is all about BHO. Do we now have a “conspiracy of one”, or do you need a dictionary?
progressoverpeace on December 5, 2008 at 9:27 AM
LevStrauss on December 5, 2008 at 9:15 AM
Yeah, there are a lot of intellectual lightweights who believe this “religion” stuff. Dummies like Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, Martin Luther… Bunch of undereducated, knuckle-dragging Neanderthals….
sarc/
cs89 on December 5, 2008 at 9:27 AM
If you’re going to peg me as a truther, than lump in the country of Kenya, which has a museum dedicated in Kenya to the site of Barack Obama’s birth.
Thanks for being consistent.
indythinker on December 5, 2008 at 9:28 AM
Ed,MM,LGF,HA don’t want to believe it matters.So fall in line sheeple…or be labeled a truther.
Jed1899 on December 5, 2008 at 9:28 AM
Christianity and Islam are great examples of what happens when conspiracy theories get out of hand.
That would be YOUR conspiracy theory. Welcome to the ranks.
Bishop on December 5, 2008 at 9:29 AM
Obama is the president. Nothing is going to change that except the passage of time. (hopefully 4 years not 8). Idiotic conspiracy theories are best left to the people who have problems forming word endings. Conservatives need to focus on the things they can do, not “what if” scenarios.
The Truthers and the MSM attack Sarah Palin with this nonsense because this is the only ammo they have against her. They can’t attack her values or accomplishments with any credibility at all. This is what scares them into acting like the morons they truly are.
Tommy_G on December 5, 2008 at 9:29 AM
Could someone please explain the actual difference between a “birth certificate” and a “certificate of live birth”? The latter sounds like it’s simply a fancier term for the former, and they both convey that they are certificates denoting birth.
SD on December 5, 2008 at 9:29 AM
Every once in a while Michelle chooses an odd bone to pick, and this is one of those times.
Whatever you think of the issue, it certainly seems reasonable to me that a presidential candidate should be able and willing to produce his or her birth certificate.
BigD on December 5, 2008 at 9:29 AM
This BC issue is not going away and it’s not unreasonable to want to pursue it. There is too much of Obama’s profile that is missing and people wonder who this man is, what does he believe and where did he come from, literally and figuratively. To equate the 9/11 truthers and Palin’s maturnity issue in the same breathe is unreasonable.
katy on December 5, 2008 at 9:31 AM
No there are abnormalities in life, just none of that superstitious nonsense. When was the last time you saw somebody die and magically arise three days later? How about a whole cemetary rise from the dead “thriller” style? There is a difference between understanding that everything doesn’t fit into a perfect pile, and believing in stuff that just plain doesn’t happen. Sorry Jack but you were sold “magic beans” and you just don’t want to admit it.
LevStrauss on December 5, 2008 at 9:31 AM
I believe, for every drop of rain that falls, a flower grows…
whitetop on December 5, 2008 at 9:31 AM
Obama is the president.
No, he isn’t. The election results aren’t official until December 15th, and he hasn’t been sworn in yet.
Is it really conspiracy theory to ask that the leader of our nation and damn near the world produce a few documents?
Obarfy won’t release his college transcripts, his records from Annenberg, his real and actual birth certificate; it’s not unreasonable to ask “why the hell not?”
Bishop on December 5, 2008 at 9:33 AM
I read something a while ago about the conspiracy theories around JFK’s death.
Instead of attacking and belittling those who held to those conspiracies (while also denying the truth in them)…
…it gave a psychological insight into them wherein the impulse for adhering to the conspiracies was an attempt to keep chaos at bay.
The point was this – it is easier to believe a planned and coordinated attack by known enemies of JFK than it is to believe that one nutjob can change the course of history.
And while I don’t agree with that, I can see the allure.
One nutjob changing world history is the very essence of chaos. In a ’sane’ world, one average, powerless person shouldn’t be able to affect the world. Thus, LHO didn’t act alone – he was a ’stooge’ for Cuba or the Teamsters or or or…
Of course, lying below all of that is suspicion and paranoia (and even hatred) toward the groups accused.
And none of this explains why people believe Trig isn’t Gov. Palin’s baby. That, I think, is simply hard-core hatred intertwined with a good dose of actual insanity.
Religious_Zealot on December 5, 2008 at 9:34 AM
Palin could produce Trig’s umbilical cord and it still wouldn’t be enough.
Heh, Michelle has a way with words!
C’mon, everybody knows the moon landing was filmed in Hollywood! Those people just LOOOOVE Nixon and would do ANYTHING to make him look good!
Mythbusters did a great job on that one.
Tony737 on December 5, 2008 at 9:34 AM
Oh please, shut up LevStrauss. Your equivocation of long-standing theological traditions and fringe conspiracy theories is ridiculous on its face.
Your dogma happens to be an obnoxious, deeply hateful, anti-religious form of atheism. My dogma happens to be in an eternal justice that extends beyond the temporal.
Go hunt down the Bilderbergers and The Trilateral Commission, you stooge.
BKennedy on December 5, 2008 at 9:34 AM
This is the funny thing. The responses from some of you fools. Some troofer will get on here and say, “buildings don’t fall at free fall or that WTC 7 wasn’t hit by a plane” and somebody sounding sensible will step up and say, “well there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for this here is the facts”. But if you were to go to the same people and say that “you can die and rise later” or “you can hear magical voices” or “or one can multiply fish and bread with the wave of a hand” or that “one can turn water into wine” or that one can “walk on water”, these same people think your crazy if you don’t believe in it. You’re getting suckered for 10% most likely and resenting me for pointing that out.
LevStrauss on December 5, 2008 at 9:38 AM
it must have been those wacky wight wingers who made grandma Obama tell the story of Barack’s birth in Kenya. unless she completely missed that she flew 20 hours to Hawaii and witnessed it there. senile old woman.
bloghooligan on December 5, 2008 at 9:39 AM
Well Jeff, I’m not religious (not an atheist, more of an I-don’t-careist) and am much more libertarian than Republican, and I do not believe any of the conspiracy theories. And no, paranoid schizophrenics are not logical, at least not in any sortof objective sense. They always have conspiracy theories to explain away any inconsistencies or missing pieces.
What we need to spend our energies on is opposing Dear Leader’s socialist policies, not some sort of idiocy about his birth certificate. He’s my president and I’ll support him when he’s right and oppose him when he’s wrong (which will be most of the time).
rbj on December 5, 2008 at 9:39 AM
LevStrauss on December 5, 2008 at 9:31AM
Never. But I do believe it happened. I was named after the apostle Thomas, from whom we get the phrase “Doubting Thomas”. As Christ clearly pointed out to him, “Blessed are those who have not seen, but still believe”. This is what is know as faith.
Tommy_G on December 5, 2008 at 9:39 AM
Richard Hofstadter wrote about this forty four years ago. Still pertinent.
Grow Fins on December 5, 2008 at 9:39 AM
ronsfi on December 5, 2008 at 9:40 AM
Let’s not forget the people still railing on about how McCain wasn’t a citizen either.
strictnein on December 5, 2008 at 9:41 AM
the problem is the conspiracy theorists on the right are a minority while the conspiracy theorists on the left are a majority.
lavell12 on December 5, 2008 at 9:41 AM
When was the last time you saw somebody die and magically arise three days later?
I haven’t then again, how do we really know that Neanderthal man actually existed?
In fact, was the universe really formed from the ‘Big Bang’?
Wtf.
Bishop on December 5, 2008 at 9:42 AM
My post in the other thread:
I agree with Michelle that birth certificate mania is approaching trutherism in some quarters. However, that Michelle even mentioned the birth certificate/Philip Berg in the same article with Leo Donofrio is an embarrassment and it served to minimize the importance and seriousness of the constitutional issues in Donofrio v. Wells. By mentioning them in the same article she implies moral and factual equivalence, which is just not so. If she had carefully distinguished the cases, I wouldn’t have a problem with her piece. Instead, she drops a couple of sentences about Donofrio’s case in the middle of a piece about 9-11 truthers, Baby Trig conspriacies, and Philip Berg nuttery. I give her credit for acknowledging there may be the seed of a legitimate constitutional issue to explore in Donofrio’s suit. But that’s not what people will remember. They will remember he was lumped in with all manner of kookery.
Donofrio alleges no conspiracy. He’s not been on any fact-finding trips in Hawaii or Kenya or Indonesia. Donofrio merely weighed Obama’s own admissions against the requirements for the presidency found in United States Constitution and found Obama wanting. And other lawyers who have looked at his case agree there is a case to be made that Barack Obama, based on his own admissions, was not a natural born citizen. Neither Michelle nor I nor any other attorney know if that is true because this is a case of first impression, meaning the Supreme Court has never ruled on this issue directly. After examing the legal issues here, I am persuaded by Donofrio’s arguments, but I can also build an arguable case against Donofrio’s claim. I am certain this is a case and controversy begging for Supreme Court action, otherwise we will be treated to never-ending, nation-dividing debate on his legitimacy.
All I know for certain is that this matter needs to be lititgated. We need to know what that natural born citizen clause means. The Framers had a reason for making it a requirement of the presidency. They weren’t fools. They added that clause with intention, while leaving that requirement out to serve in Congress. Why did they do that? If we decide that little technicalities in the constitution do not matter today, litte things like freedom of the press may be done away with tomorrow.
Without adherence to the constitution we have no country. Come on Michelle, you can do better.
flyfisher on December 5, 2008 at 9:42 AM
Obama will be the president on January 20, 2009. I stand corrected.
Tommy_G on December 5, 2008 at 9:42 AM
Apparently, Michelle Obama confirmed that her husband was born in a Kenyan mosque during an interview with African Press International. The tape of the interview will be released…any…day…now…
YYZ on December 5, 2008 at 9:45 AM
It is an excercise in convenience to throw all the conspiracies into one big nutter ball and chalk them up as equal. 6 or 7 hundred posts yesterday from a majority of reasonable people with good questions, interesting information and for the most part a great dialog. Let’s not throw this BC issue in with the Conspiracy issues. This is a legitimate issue and should be given that much respect. If Michelle,Ed and Allah and others cannot make the distinction between thinking Bush Blew up the towers and Obama showing the citizens of the US his birth certificate, then those poeple have a serious discernment issue.
katy on December 5, 2008 at 9:46 AM
Thus, LHO didn’t act alone – he was a ’stooge’ for Cuba or the Teamsters or or or…
I’m no JFK truther, but, I also can’t explain Jack Ruby killing Oswald. Was this mafia scumbag so patriotic that he shot the guy who killed the president?
And none of this explains why people believe Trig isn’t Gov. Palin’s baby. That, I think, is simply hard-core hatred intertwined with a good dose of actual insanity. – R.Z.
Right on. They just hate her. And even if she isn’t Trig’s mom, so what’s it to them?
Tony737 on December 5, 2008 at 9:46 AM
Some conspiracies I don’t believe in and others I’m not so sure about.
Palin pregnancy – believe it
Obama citizen – don’t care anymore, probably believe it
JFK assassination – an awful lots of weird stuff going on (see interviews that day of people in the plaza) for it to be Oswald 101% IMO
Moon landing – believe it
UFOs – I’ve seen a lot of strange things that make me wonder, but nothing irrefutable yet
rockbend on December 5, 2008 at 9:47 AM
Well you’ll be delighted to know that a crackhead stopped me on my way out of a 7/11 the other day and told me that he can talk to God and Jesus and that he has made short trips to heaven. This guy actually exists. I would suggest you give him 10% of your earnings too.
LevStrauss on December 5, 2008 at 9:49 AM
Totally agree with ID here. (no pun intended) But, where would the media be on the BC issue if Obama was a Republican?
Rovin on December 5, 2008 at 9:49 AM
Haven’t heard or seen the clip or article on this.
Could this woman be either telling a lie or trying to make herself (and Kenya) important or simply a tad senile?
Are any of these even possible? Why if Darth Barry is such a liar (and he is I believe) should we think his paternal grandmother is a bastion of facts and truth?
Okay, if he was born in Kenya and flown to Hawaii, and given citizenship status because of it – his mom is an American citizen.
Doesn’t that by Constitutional law deem his empty-suited self American citizenship?
I agree – just fess up, come clean with the documents and move on, but he’s not going to. However, I honestly believe this story has had to be checked out and cleared by proper authorities.
kybowexar on December 5, 2008 at 9:50 AM
So, when does Baby Buckley start blogging at HotAir? It seems that this site has cut the difference with him down to about … nothing.
progressoverpeace on December 5, 2008 at 9:50 AM
As far as I know the father of Barack Obama was not a citizen of the USA when he gave birth to Barack. Donofrio’s contention is that Barack Obama, although born in the USA is NOT natural-born. For lay people like me, is there evidence to counter his argument that Obama is indeed a natural-born citizen (eg that if the mother only is an American citizen and her baby is born in the USA that means her offspring is a ‘natural born citizen’)
technopeasant on December 5, 2008 at 9:51 AM
Maybe Kathleen Parker called Michelle “oogedy-boogedy” and Michelle’s trying to make it right.
BigD on December 5, 2008 at 9:51 AM
Obama will be the president on January 20, 2009. I stand corrected. – Tom
We knew what ya meant :-)
Tony737 on December 5, 2008 at 9:52 AM
Asking for a birth certificate is not “trutherism”. I think the HA brain trust of AP, ED, and MM, need to be concerned less with their image vis-a-vis other mainstream bloggers and more concerned with the same principles that the vast plurality of their readers share.
Remember, just because you’re paranoid, doesn’t mean that everyone isn’t out to get you. Similarly, just because something may be conspiratorial, doesn’t mean that it’s not true. The brain trust needs to be concerned with truth above all, not with maintaining a narrative.
keep the change on December 5, 2008 at 9:52 AM
That’s a good question. But then again I don’t frame my whole worldview around these debatable questions. Reality works best.
LevStrauss on December 5, 2008 at 9:52 AM
damn … Obama has more problems than the birth certificate then … if his FATHER gave birth to him lol
a typo on your part but still funny !
joey24007 on December 5, 2008 at 9:53 AM
Yep. It’s always important to remember the distinction between whether something is valid and whether it is true.
Mr. D on December 5, 2008 at 9:54 AM
I noticed several statements claiming that certain groups are more likely to believe lunatic conspiracy theories than others. My observation has been that lunacy knows no boundaries, and that the surest way to believe something lunatic is to be smug about how correct your ideas are.
thuja on December 5, 2008 at 9:55 AM
Ha!!
katy on December 5, 2008 at 9:55 AM
I got it…. he was hatched, just like the grand plan for him to take over the U.S. and change the country as we know it. We’ll soon find out won’t we? It’s very very odd that he simply won’t show the birth certificate, since he wrote about it in his book that he kept it neatly folded in a book he always read. So, show it. What scares me is that they don’t require proof to run for the office in the first place. Seems like a no brainer to me. I want to see the Certificate that the Republican Governor of Hawaii put under seal. Then compare the one that Obama says is his to that one. Then we will know once and for all.
suzyk on December 5, 2008 at 9:56 AM
MM is just staking out her mainstream conservative bona fides.
Let’s see the birth certificate, college transcripts, and medical records please. Why must we be branded as “truthers” for wanting to see such easily producable and uncontroversial things?
Akzed on December 5, 2008 at 9:56 AM
+1 !!
katy on December 5, 2008 at 9:56 AM
Another thought on why “birtherism” (shouldn’t it be called Birth Certificate-gate?) shouldn’t (yet) be lumped in with the rest – the others have had outside people look into the matter and declare it legitimate.
The JFK assassination had The Warren Report.
The Moon Landing has Buzz Aldrin’s fists.
9/11 had the 9/11 Report.
Trig Palin has had independent confirmation from reporters and doctors.
The to-do over Obama’s birth certificate has yet to have a meaningful corroboration.
Religious_Zealot on December 5, 2008 at 9:58 AM
Left unasked in all this mess is, how the hell can he get even a lower-level security clearance without it?
wccawa on December 5, 2008 at 9:58 AM
What I don’t get now is why HA readers are being told ad infinitum how much of a non-story this is (cf. “Sadly obligatory SCOTUS post”, “Triggerism”, MM’s article), yet as the previous list would imply, you guys keep writing article after article about it. Either stop writing essentially open invites to the readers to talk about the birth certificate or admit it’s an actual story. You seem to want it both ways — People, stop talking about it PLUS hey people here’s another chance to talk about it.
LastRick on December 5, 2008 at 9:58 AM
Barry is fast becoming the world champion liar …
What I find weird is a Presidential candidate won’t come clean and produce a birth certificate. I just got a drivers licenses renewal, they asked I bring a certified copy of my birth certificate — which I duly produced and got my new drivers licenses.
The mere fact that someone won’t do what is for all practical purposes a ‘zero cost’ thing is really weird, and deserves answers. I mean, aren’t we trusting the character of this person? It’s not like he isn’t applying for a job that requires public trust.
Yeah, I believe he was born in Hawaii, but I also think there is something fishy about his ‘natural born’ citizen requirement. Which is at the crux of the keep away routine. When you are adopted by a foreign person, you do have the option to denounce the birth citizenship, and assume the Father’s citizenship — As well as change the baby’s name to Barry Soreto.
We have a right to know, if for no other reason.
tarpon on December 5, 2008 at 9:59 AM
It’s good for business.
Now shut up, truther!!!!/s
wise_man on December 5, 2008 at 10:02 AM
Lets come down out of the clouds shall we..
A couple of facts, that tell me deception is a foot..
Since August, Obama has spent nearly one million dollars fighting at least 17 lawsuits to keep a single piece of paper – his birth certificate – under wraps.
One of his legal point men fighting at least one of the lawsuits also happens to be a lawyer for, and active member of Council on American Islamic Relations.
Why not just produce the original certificate and put the issue to rest?
Madam Liberty on December 5, 2008 at 10:02 AM
katy on December 5, 2008 at 10:02 AM
Good question, Madam Liberty.
Now shut up, truther!!!!/s
wise_man on December 5, 2008 at 10:03 AM
“it must have been those wacky wight wingers who made grandma Obama tell the story of Barack’s birth in Kenya. unless she completely missed that she flew 20 hours to Hawaii and witnessed it there. senile old woman.”
My grandmother insisted to me that my father attended a high school that was built well after he graduated. Sometimes old folks say things that just aren’t so.
SD on December 5, 2008 at 10:04 AM
Problem I have with the Kenyan grandma story is she is speaking in a launguage I do not speak, and translated by someone I do not know.
One call, one $12. check, one answer.
Wander on December 5, 2008 at 10:05 AM
As I understand it.. Since his mom is a US citizen.. even if she was overseas when she had him, it would depend on what citizenship he declared when he turned 18..
My brother and I were talking about this the other day.. he mentioned to me about all of Barack’s school records being sealed. Columbia and Harvard..
If he did declare to be a citizen of Kenya, then that would be on his records as well.. in state, out of state.. foreign student..
all of this can be put to rest if BHO would produce one. simple. paper.
DaveC on December 5, 2008 at 10:11 AM
Also, can anyone source the amount Mr. O. has alleged to have spent fighting these law suits?
I hear all sorts of amounts batted around, but NO source.
Certificate of live birth from Hawaii is the same equivalent to a learners permit and a valid drivers license.
Wander on December 5, 2008 at 10:12 AM
Sorry, katy. Reason and measured argument is, evidently, considered lunacy at HotAir, now. My, how the world has changed in a few weeks.
progressoverpeace on December 5, 2008 at 10:12 AM
Is this the “whitey” tape we are craving for?
And, if I may say, I am utterly incensed and offended that no one has dared to mention here where is the Abominable Snowman. Incredible!
/sarc off on this one.
ProudPalinFan on December 5, 2008 at 10:15 AM
Sully is still pursuing this crap to this day. At first it was because McCain was wrong to pick Palin. Now that McCain is essentially retired, it is about just hating Palin.
What a little bitch Sully has become.
Mr. Joe on December 5, 2008 at 10:17 AM
More conspiracies, apparently.
Grow Fins on December 5, 2008 at 10:18 AM
I’ll pay the $12.00, we know he’s strapped after raising 1 Billion during and after his campaign.
thomasaur on December 5, 2008 at 10:19 AM
Now that was funny … for once.
progressoverpeace on December 5, 2008 at 10:20 AM
we are a nation of Men now..
eff the nation of laws and the Constitution..
DaveC on December 5, 2008 at 10:21 AM
While I agree that the BC thing is probably just a technicality waiting to be shot down-I still don’t understand why he doesn’t just come out in the open to clear the whole mess up. This makes no sense to me.
I know you can get a BC without being born in the place you’re trying to get it from. It wasn’t that hard back then.
So I see no problem with anyone trying to establish where he was REALLY born. Yes, it’s only a little thing & quite trivial to most, but since it’s in the Constitution I believe it should be fully investigated bcs if it comes out later he really wasn’t born in HI, then our document isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.
That’s not a conspiracy.
Badger40 on December 5, 2008 at 10:22 AM
What I find interesting is that Obama could put all this birth certificate stuff to rest if he would just provide the long/original version of his bc. Why won’t he? This is exactly the kind of thing that encourages people to believe there is fraud going on. I don’t think that is unreasonable or makes people nutjobs.
I believe JFK was killed on orders from the mob because the mob was furious with him, his brother and his father for a variety of reasons from promises during the election and what Bobby Kennedy was doing in office afterwards. Does this make me a truther or an idiot? I don’t think so. There is plenty of legitimate information out there for me to believe what I do.
Differences of opinion does not always make people crazy. What does is how extreme your opinions are and a refusal to accept hard concrete facts.
katieanne on December 5, 2008 at 10:24 AM
Nobody says that YOU can do these things. They say that one specific, historically existent person named Jesus Christ of Nazareth can. Aside from the rising from the dead thing, which only applies to the body at the end of time, otherwise only the soul rises.
Really, atheists are quick to categorically point out all the supposedly fantastical claims of a particular religion, but as usual prefer not to mire themselves in the actual details. Atheism is theology for armchair quarterbacks.
BKennedy on December 5, 2008 at 10:24 AM
For all her fight and moxie…
It’s 4th down and inches to go…
And Michelle Malkin decides to punt!!
120pages on December 5, 2008 at 10:27 AM
Well said.
whitetop on December 5, 2008 at 10:28 AM
I’m fairly sure that the odds of someone firing three rounds from a bolt action rifle in under 5 seconds, scoring two hits, including a headshot on a moving target from nearly 40 yards away is incredibly difficult, especially on a weapon that an individual only used for recreational hunting, having no known experience firing it or any other weapon under high-stress conditions….like trying to hit a human moving target. Marine or not, incredibly difficult. Given the choice between the one-man conspiracy of Oswald and WWIII over an assassinated President, be it Cubans or Russians or whomever, I would have made Oswald the stooge in a heartbeat.
But Trig is Sarah’s baby, a bunch of pissed off Muslims committed the acts of 11SEP01, fire doesn’t need to melt steel in order to break down its structural integrity, and Barack Obama is an American, because the simplest solution is almost always the correct one.
Spc Steve on December 5, 2008 at 10:29 AM
But the good money is on the bet that, because you are paranoid, nobody is out to get you, but your disease won’t let you realize that.
As I’ve stated in comments on a previous post, if Obama were born overseas, there would be a record at State concerning his initial entry into the US, because his mother would have had to secure a passport for him at an Embassy. Kids don’t enter or leave the US for places like Indonesia without a passport.
Again, a person born overseas is a natural born citizen ius sanguinis if they were, according to the current law, born to a citizen parent who had spent, at any point, at least five consecutive years in the United States, two of which were 14 or older. They do not have to be naturalized (as would a non-citizen) — they are natural-born. This same rule would have applied to Mr. McCain, had the left wing truthers brought up his birth in the Canal Zone. I personally think such an argument is moot; the Certificate from Hawaii is good enough for me — it shows that, in a timely fashion, Mr. Obama’s birth was recorded.
unclesmrgol on December 5, 2008 at 10:29 AM
Exactly. If Obama did release his birth certificate for review of the people and any other documents they wanted to see and some people then still believed he was not a citizen and gave outlandish, illogical reasons to continue their belief – then you could label these people truthers in the same arena as the ‘fire can’t melt steel’ and trigigerism crowd.
It really is unfortunate that so many of the audience here is being insulted this way.
wise_man on December 5, 2008 at 10:30 AM
Good point.
Spirit of 1776 on December 5, 2008 at 10:31 AM
Yes…
and President Clinton was NOT having affairs… (dang dress)
and Nixon, no way he’s covering anything up… (blasted tapes)
Hidenburgh Letter? Never existed… (dang Brits…)
Soviet Bufflalo Bomber? They gots thousands of em…
Some conspiricy threories are more equal than others… and oly time will tell (or Obama real Birth Cert).
Romeo13 on December 5, 2008 at 10:32 AM
OH NO!!! I agree with Wiseman…. checks his Remote meter attatched to a thermometer in He11…. dang… it is awfull cold down there….
Romeo13 on December 5, 2008 at 10:34 AM
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