Quotes of the day
posted at 9:30 pm on December 5, 2008 by Allahpundit
“Sachs’ testimony was striking in that he gave no ground when lawmakers complained that their constituents would be ‘mad’ with them for helping the auto companies.
‘They are going to be very mad when unemployment reaches 9%; they will be really mad if unemployment reaches 12%,’ he told Rep. Jackie Speier (D-Calif.). ‘If we allow the most important industry in this country to disintegrate, believe me, the fury will be nothing like what will happen when they hear about this kind of bailout.
‘We have to take the macro-economics seriously right now. We’re in the steepest descent we’ve been in in modern times. This is crucial to stop this. So the American people need to understand. This isn’t a favor for the industry. This is a favor for the American people… This is to brake a collapse of our economy that is under way right now.’”
*
“If there was ever any question whether Congress actually wants to ‘save’ Detroit, this week dispelled it. This is not a bailout that Congress is debating. It is a federal takeover. We don’t mean that in the sense that the feds will own the companies on paper, although that can’t be ruled out. What Congress wants to own is their business plan, and Detroit seems prepared to oblige…
The car makers’ request for a bridge loan, by contrast, looks like a $34 billion bridge to nowhere. It has already morphed into an opportunity for political extortion — and we don’t even have a bill yet. When, in a couple years, costs have not come down as expected because of political pressure to keep the unions happy and the green cars aren’t selling — because they were designed in Washington, not for consumers — the companies will be back for more money.”










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First Rule of Holes – when in one, first stop digging.
Murphy9 on December 5, 2008 at 9:37 PM
For the love of God, please no more favors!
Murphy9 on December 5, 2008 at 9:39 PM
For the sake of my own 100% complete employment…
For the sake of my ability to drink beer and watch football…
For the sake of my rottie Arwen…
for my Wife
and for goodness sake, for my children…
Can I have a bailout?
I’ll only need about $200K?
Whadaya say?
catmman on December 5, 2008 at 9:40 PM
I’M NOT PAYING MY BILLS EVER AGAIN.
gringo69 on December 5, 2008 at 9:41 PM
Blackmail. And bullshit. Bullshit blackmail.
Jim62sch on December 5, 2008 at 9:42 PM
catmman on December 5, 2008 at 9:40 PM
Of course my previous request for $200K is predicated on my knowledge of the need to make these types of requests using government math…
When I say $200K I really mean I only need about $800,0000,000,000.
Just to keep me afloat you see…
It’s for America!
catmman on December 5, 2008 at 9:43 PM
That trends guy who predicted the “panic of 08″ just bought himself a new domain a few days ago…
http://collapseof09.com/
ninjapirate on December 5, 2008 at 9:45 PM
When the salaries paid to UAW workers is directly controlled by Congress the that will be even more overpaid than before.
I will never buy another American car. Ever.
pedestrian on December 5, 2008 at 9:45 PM
ME EITHER
gringo69 on December 5, 2008 at 9:46 PM
Demand that, in order to secure federal financial subsidies, the auto company shareholders must agree to:
1) Fire all existing executives. No severance packages.
2) Pull a Reagan: fire union workers…hire non-union workers….
3) Refuse to renegotiate any sweetheart union deals once any current contracts expire.
4) Sunset any union benefits currently contracted. Pull the plug on any for non-working/non-injured workers.
Remind the auto company shareholders, and have them relay it to all incoming executives, that they’re running business. They need to keep costs down, and they need to produce products which customers want…not ugly, mis-engineered “feel-good” automotive equivalents of Mr. Gore’s favored “squiggly light bulb”….
Finally, remind Congress that they are not running a business. They are to craft legislation, not act as executives. Even a cursory read of the Constitution should remind them that a whole branch of government exists to house executives.
Who’s to be bailed out next? Individual states, one by one (with California taking pride of place at the head of the like, hat in hand)? The Mexican government (to coax them to keep more of their citizens at home)? Maybe they could send me a few bucks…and I’ll promise to speaking glowingly of them for the next, oh, two years….
…when in doubt, stuff currency into the holes in the dike….
Puritan1648 on December 5, 2008 at 9:47 PM
Good news: Yes.
Bad news: Barney Frank has the check secreted about his person…next to the skin, I hear…and you have to go find it.
Puritan1648 on December 5, 2008 at 9:49 PM
The UAW has become so skilled at extorting great pay and benefits out of the auto makers that now the UAW with help from the democrat party has set their sites on a large target.
Now the UAW is threatening the 48% of voters who did not vote for Obama with economic collapse unless we pay them off with even greater benefits.
Pay off or no work. Only union workers and friends of the democrat party will have a job.
Skandia Recluse on December 5, 2008 at 9:55 PM
What a joke for the company execs to say it’s for the American people. What’s wrong with bankruptcy? Kmart did it and came back, the airlines did it and came back, many companies have filled chapter 11 and came back so why can’t the big three file?
blueboat on December 5, 2008 at 9:55 PM
That’s it.
This whole thing just makes so angry I could spit fire. Then you add in that “help or else” UAW commercial….
tru2tx on December 5, 2008 at 9:55 PM
“It gives us the bailout or it gets the hose”
batterup on December 5, 2008 at 9:56 PM
When did the auto industry become “the most important industry in this country?” The US needs banks to survive as a country (although the bailouts are being handled horribly), but the US doesn’t need the Big 3 to survive.
markytom on December 5, 2008 at 9:56 PM
I heard Celente on Coast To Coast AM last night. He says the next big problem will be commercial real estate. Consumers will stop spending and retailers will go out of business leaving empty commercial properties that nobody else wants to buy or lease.
Mark1971 on December 5, 2008 at 9:57 PM
Don`t they supply some hardware to the U.S. military? We can always replace the good `ol Humvee with the Mini Cooper. :)
ThePrez on December 5, 2008 at 10:00 PM
He who pays the piper dictates the tune. If Detroit gets federal taxpayer money in the form of anything but a business loan, it becomes a government company…
Do I really want my tax dollars invested on my behalf, without my permission in a business which is doomed to fail?
Great Sage on December 5, 2008 at 10:00 PM
Just another instance of the government transfusing blood from a healthy person (Rearden Steel) to a decaying corpse (Orren Boyle’s company). Makes the healthy person sicker and does nothing for the corpse.
Bite me, Detroit. You elected Kwame Kilpatrick and Jennifer Granholm, live with the consequences.
Jim62sch on December 5, 2008 at 10:06 PM
Hell, I’d settle for half of that.
CurtZHP on December 5, 2008 at 10:07 PM
Sure, and when they go Chapter 11 those assets/plants will be sold to somebody else. Just because they go Chapter 11 doesn’t mean everything stops. Pieces will be sold off to other companies who will hire those workers to make cars, parts, or whatever.
markytom on December 5, 2008 at 10:07 PM
Oh God, don’t say that. As a 23-year veteran of the U.S. military, I’ve had to live firsthand with the consequences of the Carter Chrysler bailout. Carter made the military buy Chrysler vehicles, and for a decade afterward we had to deal with cars and trucks that broke down if you looked at them. It was only a few years ago that we finally got rid of the last of them.
When we are deployed to the Middle East most of our vehicles are Toyota and Nissan trucks leased from local companies. They are reliable and dependable. I don’t buy anything but Honda and Toyota anymore (I just bought my daughter a new Civic for a Christmas present.)
Jim62sch on December 5, 2008 at 10:11 PM
Meet Joe and Jane Average. They live someplace warm and sunny, far removed from the cold rustbelt and the dark gray clouds over Detroit. Jane works for an insurance company and Joe does computer support for a large nationwide tech company. As a matter of fact, Joe and Jane met on the job when he was a contract worker at her site. While driving to work in a Toyondissandai, an average Asian branded car, they hear on the radio that General Motors may go bankrupt. GM will run out of money to operate by the end of the year. The crippled giant automaker has three options. Get loans from the government, go through reorganization under Chapter 11 bankruptcy, or be forced to liquidate under Chapter 7. GM says they won’t file for Chapter 11 and there isn’t any credit available without government involvement. So GM may end up being liquidated. Joe and Jane give a moment’s thought to how it might affect them.
“No wonder,” Jane says, “Nobody buys an American car anymore,” telling her self silently what a smart shopper she was as she gazes approvingly at the interior of the Toyondissandai.
Joe says, “Boy, I’m glad I didn’t take that job with that automotive supplier. Can you imagine having to work in a factory?” Joe asks, silently trying to forget having to sit in a cubicle most of the day.
“Can you imagine having to live in Detroit?” Jane jokes, and Joe laughs, as they drive past a graveyard.
Only 12% of the US economy is manufacturing. Most people, like Joe and Jane, work in other sectors, in their case the service economy. The closest the average Joe and Jane gets to any kind of factory or shop is watching How It’s Made on cable tv. Actually so few Americans are involved in manufacturing that How It’s Made is made in Canada. Most people don’t make things so they have no idea how things are made.
Joe and Jane Average may have heard the phrase “supply chain” tossed around in connection to the auto industry’s crisis. I’m guessing that it means about as much to them as other terms like “credit default swaps” and “derivative securities” do. Let me give Joe and Jane a little lesson about how things are really made.
The automakers mostly assemble major components and subassemblies provided by suppliers into finished automobiles and rely on a supply chain. As the name implies, the supply chain involves a multi-tiered network of businesses that provide both raw materials and finished products that go into automotive components and ultimately complete vehicles. Usually vendors are classified as either Tier 1 or Tier 2 suppliers, depending on whether they sell directly to the automakers or sell to other suppliers. It’s not a rigid difference since many companies are themselves both tier 1 and 2, and there are many levels in tier 2. Components can move around a bit before they are completed. Perhaps supply web is a better metaphor because of how interlinked and interrelated the various companies are. That’s for one part or component. A modern car or light truck probably has 20,000 individual “parts” before they are assembled into major components or sub-assemblies.
Many companies that are part of the automotive supply chain don’t just make automotive parts, they supply a number of industries. Johnson Controls, for example, one of the three biggest tier 1 suppliers, gets about 1/3 of its revenue from the automotive industry. A large part of the manufacturing base of the country, 12% of the economy as mentioned before, is one way or another involved in the auto industry. Remove the domestic automakers and their supply chain and you’ve removed most of the US manufacturing base. You can’t make F-22s if you have no manufacturing base.
Using the chain metaphor, you can understand how a break in one link immediately affects the chain in both directions, up the chain and down the chain, and also breaks the entire chain. So when one company fails, the companies below the broken link dependent on selling things up the chain are distressed, and the companies above the break depending on using downchain products are distressed. When Plastech, a large tier 1 and 2 supplier of molded parts failed, Johnson Controls and other tier 1 vendors stepped in with a reorganization plan to ensure supply of parts they needed for their own production. Plastech ultimately supplied about 5000 different parts to all three domestic automakers.
What’s been described as a ripple or tsunami affect takes place, with bankruptcies and economic distress radiating in all directions. I think there might be a better aquatic metaphor. As individual companies circle the drain, other companies get sucked into the whirlpool.
The companies are so interconnected and the connections go in many directions. You can see how if GM goes bankrupt and that bankruptcy causes suppliers in its supply chain to fail that Ford might also be threatened because it can’t get parts. It wouldn’t be just Ford. Joe and Jane think that if GM, Ford and Chrysler disappear Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai and other foreign companies with North American operations will just sell cars to the people that used to buy Chevys, Fords and Dodges. They hear ads about Camrys made in Kentucky with 86% US content. Joe and Jane Average don’t understand that much of the US content in Toyondissandais assembled in the US comes from the same supply chain dependent on the domestic companies. If GM is liquidated the foreign owned assembly plants now operating in North America would have a difficult time producing cars because of supply chain disruption. Foreign owned suppliers in North American will also be distressed because they sell to the domestics as well as to the transplants.
So lots of businesses will fail or be distressed, laying off workers, buying less. Joe and Jane’s neighbor, John Doe, may lose his job. For now, though, Joe and Jane still feel somewhat secure in their service sector jobs. Soon though, Jane’s department starts to cut back. Her company offers automobile insurance and auto sales were down 30-40% before GM went belly up. She’s in a different part of the company, but you know how things are when belts are tightened. The insurance company cut back on their contract labor but Joe had already moved on to a different contract position so he’s still safe in his job, for now.
Back to the supply chain. The thing about a supply chain is that it’s almost infinite, like a fractal or a house of mirrors. It includes things generally not associated with making cars, like the Cray supercomputers at GM’s Tech Center, or the desktop computers and CAD software used by an engineer at a component vendor. Joe doesn’t work for an automaker or parts supplier, but his company has a contract with a large Tier 2 automotive vendor in Michigan that is struggling to stay in business. They decide to go with a cheaper IT contractor and Joe’s employer starts retrenching.
Auto sales by now have completely cratered. Joe and Jane may have thought that nobody bought American cars, but in November of 2008 the domestic brands had a 55% share of the US market. Normally, when you remove more than half a market’s supply, prices from remaining producers should go up because of the law of supply and demand. However, the fire sale prices as GM went down and took all its dealers with it meant that other brands could not raise their prices. They had a hard enough time just making cars with the collapse of the US auto supplier base. Their dealers had to cut prices to stay in business as the surplus GM fleet hammered retail prices.
Jane’s employer has now closed its auto insurance division. Jane’s hopeful to keep her job since her company just received it’s third tranche of TARP funds, but she worries and she expects a pink slip every day. She talks to Joe on the phone a lot. His company has really cut back. He was offered the choice of a severance package or a transfer back to the company headquarters so he took the job. They’d like to meet on weekends, but can’t afford to fly. Joe’s living expenses are making it hard for them to keep their house.
rokemronnie on December 5, 2008 at 10:11 PM
Wow, UAW talking points. Did they get them from the buggy whip manufacturers?
Jim62sch on December 5, 2008 at 10:16 PM
Long version:
Short version: That’s a nice house there, be a shame if something happened to it.
The UAW knows only one thing: extortion.
Well, FFFFFF You!
We are buying elsewhere. We will not become your slaves. We are Spartaaaaaaaaa!
pedestrian on December 5, 2008 at 10:26 PM
They are going to be very mad when unemployment reaches 9%;
No, dipstick.
It is going to be 9%.
There’s no sense wasting another $50 billion on three failures in the meantime.
You morons are going to be back within a year for mroe money.
Better to take the hit now and start to heal.
drjohn on December 5, 2008 at 10:27 PM
Random thoughts –
I nearly threw up when I saw the mayor of Detroit (I think) talk about how the Cadillac CTS was Motor Trend’s car of the year. Just how many people can own a Caddy? How proud he was of the workers. Of course he is a Democrat. The 1967 Mercury Cougar was also a Car of the Year, why? I’m beginning to think that MT is a wholly owned subsidiary of Ford and GM. I did, however, like my 68 Cougar, it was quiet, rode nicely, and handled fairly well, but the engineers who designed that particular power steering system, should have had their licenses suspended.
GM and Ford cannot continue to make badge engineered cars. Chevy, Buick and Pontiac are the same cars in different clothes, just like Ford and Mercury.
It all came obvious back in the eighties when people discovered that their Pontiacs and Chevies had the same engines. My 1968 Cougar had a 302 V8 that had a label stating it was manfactured by Ford Motor Company. The engine block was not painted yellow; it was Ford blue. At least Ford didn’t try to fool anybody.
If they get the cash, expect the legislators to start demanding that they stop making Corvettes, Mustangs, and Dodge Challengers – immediately. How many flex-fuel, green Corvettes will Chevy sell?
Pelayo on December 5, 2008 at 10:29 PM
Anyone have the article about Palin telling Oprah to go **** herself? It was just on the ABC channel here that carries Oprah.
SouthernGent on December 5, 2008 at 10:30 PM
Jesus Christ.
People need cars.
If there no Fords, Chryslers or GM cars, guess who will get sell MORE cars made in the US?
YES! Honda, Nissan and Toyota.
And that means they will hire MORE people and need MORE parts from vendors!
Helllloooooooooooooooo????????????
drjohn on December 5, 2008 at 10:30 PM
Puritan1648 on December 5, 2008 at 9:49 PM
Since Barney and his Dem buddies have us all BOHICA’d anyway…
On second thought, never mind – they can keep the money…
Ewwww. Dude. Just. Plain. EWWWWWW.
catmman on December 5, 2008 at 10:30 PM
Like during the amnesty travesty, I suggest we send emails far and wide to family and friends and call on everyone to swamp the phone lines at the capital…… Or we can vent our rage on a blog and watch our country go to hell in a handbasket. It may still go the way of the handbasket but we will have tried to stop its descent
katy on December 5, 2008 at 10:30 PM
Last one out of
VietnamDetroit be sure to turn off the lights.MB4 on December 5, 2008 at 10:35 PM
rokemronnie.. it seems you left out one little detail.
When a company goes bankrupt, someone else sees an opportunity, calculates the variables, negotiates deals with those parties who are now in economic distress, and begins supplying the demanded goods, or services that the consumer will support.
Skandia Recluse on December 5, 2008 at 10:36 PM
Break the UAW’s back! I’ve been an engineer in semiconductor manufacturing for the better part of 30 years and have watched in horror as company after company has been forced to file or just go bust due to a host of competitive pressures. To argue the BIG 3 are immune to the realities of business and should be spared the harsh realities for bad decisions is ridiculous. When an assembly line production autoworker is pulling more coin than degreed engineers, technicians and support personnel in other manufacturing enterprises its time to flush to toilet and watch the union capo’s swirl down the drain!
dmann on December 5, 2008 at 10:37 PM
Give them a mere 33.5 billion, and give me a paltry .5 billion, and I’ll wager I turn a better profit.
profitsbeard on December 5, 2008 at 10:41 PM
Sorry, but that supply chain story is, well, just a story.
The reality is that if there is no bailout, then GM will probably go into chapter 11. At that point, the Chrysler guys will either get more money from cerebus, or they will go chapter 11 as well. (since I think they are actually owned by the labor unions, I suspect they will simply get more money to continue on). This will put Ford, who has already indicated they can probably muddle thru 2009 w/o fresh cash, in a position to dominate the US local auto market.
So, the supply chain guys will simply find themselves sending more parts to Ford, Chrysler, and the various foreign manufacturers who will all increase their market shares.
Now, with the recession going at the same time, there will be about a 20-40% drop in sales next year regardless of anything the federal government attempts to do. So all business will need to plan accordingly.
Now IF congress sticks its nose into this, they will artifically prop up GM and Chrysler, and setup all 3 companies to fail in a shrunken market place.
Remember, it takes congress to really screw up a market place!
Freddy on December 5, 2008 at 10:46 PM
Not once in fokemronnie’s soliloquy was there any mention of working harder, taking less money, or any other kind of change of behavior.
It’s like talking to an employee who refuses to acknowledge any responsibility for the consequences his actions. Time for a firing.
pedestrian on December 5, 2008 at 10:48 PM
profitsbeard, I have no doubt whatsoever!
The unions, and their insane demands, and the politicians who own them, are at fault. Let them die, or retire poor, or both. It’s time they all get a reality check. I can’t believe the 3 are fighting for saving the unions arses. They s/b fighting to save the companies, and in this scenario it will never happen.
Gas prices are aroun $40/barrel, going on $25/barrel. Our population has the attention span of gnats – there’s no way they’ll hold themselves to account for alternative anything, nor will the politicians do a damn thing about it.
It’s all about the unions. Get lost, for good.
Entelechy on December 5, 2008 at 10:52 PM
Im sorry, but these companies were SUPPOSED to be designing cars for the consumers for the last 10 years while the Japanese companies were doing everything they could to edge us out. NOW they try and tell us that only THEY can design cars for consumers????? This is madness. It is absolutely clear that these automakers have NOT been designing cars for consumers, and now they have to go, i say give washington a try, as the only other option has ALREADY FAILED
ernesto on December 5, 2008 at 10:56 PM
Give me 100 Million and can make a film about the end of the Big 3.
I can probably turn a profit of 800 Million Dollars. And that would
be using Hollywood accounting methods.
izoneguy on December 5, 2008 at 10:57 PM
Isn’t this just wonderful? This is what we have come to?? if these businesses are too big to fail,, then break them up and never let them grow again! They can’t seem to handle growth! Congress broke up Ma Bell.
Break up the auto industry into 10 different separate industries and never let them grow beyond a certain point again! This is just so sickening!
If the government takes these dogs over, I will never buy a car from any of them again. I will buy used or I will buy Japan. I am sick of listening to how great they think they are and I am sick of listening to how smart congress is!
JellyToast on December 5, 2008 at 10:58 PM
No suprise in these quarters that you miss the bigger point. If bailing out the automobile manufacturers is the right thing to do and that enrages the constituents, the politicians need to be able to make the case. IT’S AN ANCIENT ART CALLED LEADERSHIP! Being the leader isn’t all about being popular but doing the right thing. As much as your secular humanist crowd refuses to admit it, GWB has been a leader. Your hero, Obama, is like Clinton in being more concerned with polls than doing the right thing. It’s a little thing called pastel patriotism.
highhopes on December 5, 2008 at 10:59 PM
Come to think of it, I cannot think of any auto manufacturer going through Chapter 11. Studebaker and Packard merged but about ten years later ceased production. Nash and Hudson became American Motors and were bought by Chrysler, the only remnant of AMC’s auto division is Jeep.
However I do believe that re-organizing through Chapter 11 is better than having a bunch of bureaucrats with their fingers in the assembly line.
Pelayo on December 5, 2008 at 11:01 PM
for rokemronnie
Bank of America violated union workers rights (to a job).
Skandia Recluse on December 5, 2008 at 11:06 PM
Don’t forget the military needs can also be supplied by; Catapillar, John Deere, Melroe, New Holland, and Terex, and other heavy equipment companies.
Dasher on December 5, 2008 at 11:12 PM
I have this image of American automobiles being designed by Congress. Not just the technical specs like efficienicies but all the rest too. We’d get a state manufactured “Yugo” like car. Might as well kill off the industry than allow that to happen. It would be a coup de gras.
highhopes on December 5, 2008 at 11:12 PM
Liberals hate catapillar. The Israelis use the companies products to build that barrier.
highhopes on December 5, 2008 at 11:14 PM
Just one simple question….
If their product is so good, why the need for government bailoiuts? The answer is that if you can’t sell it, then you need to subsidize it with government funds?
Yes, the CAFE standards and other such nonsense didn’t help. But KIA, Volvo, and Mercedes aren’t asking for government help.
If it was a good product, people would buy it. Ask for advice from the IPhone people on how to run a business.
Hog Wild on December 5, 2008 at 11:18 PM
When did generations of people lose or never develop morals or values? That is the only thing, I got out of the above. These people, that state they can’t file bankruptcy are lying. If they thought they couldn’t get away with what they are trying to do Milk the American tax payers pockets, they would have filed already, that is their option.
When I was growing up, I learned right from wrong, like lots of other people. Either we are dealing with people who never learned right from wrong or they disregarded Morals as having nothing to do with them not pertaining. You don’t give into the morally weak, that isn’t a winning strategy.
Dr Evil on December 5, 2008 at 11:20 PM
Well, I can’t say I’m for the bailout, but IMO the auto industry IS the most important industry in the US. The banks are a service to us, but there will be no money flowing through them if there is no auto industry. Let’s face it, autos are the last big thing we make. Yeah, we might make some farm equipment here, but not much else. There are so many small businesses that rely solely on automotive industry to keep their own businesses afloat. Believe me I know this. I’m living it. I’m telling you that if the Big 3 go down the tubes, it will be a complete disaster of Biblical proportions.
I’m afraid there is no right answer anymore. It’s going to be bad no matter what.
Oink on December 5, 2008 at 11:26 PM
There was a proposal several years ago to standardize the instrument layout of all cars. The light switch would be here and be a certain configuration, the windshield wiper knob would be there, the radio would look like this or that, and the speedometer would be arranged per government regulations. It did not get implemented. Liberals have always wanted to design cars, now they are gonna get their chance.
I also think they tried to write standards to place the rear brake pedal on the right and the shifter on the left for all motorcycles. As I foggily recall, it was also dropped becuase it would have caused Harley Davidson to redesign their engines, and probably killed the company.
Pelayo on December 5, 2008 at 11:27 PM
I forgot to add that the Feds determined that all automatic transmissions would be PRNDL, because some transmissions were different. My Aunt’s 1954 Chevy was
RPNDLPNRDLuh, I don’t exactly remember. The problem was that some people would put the car in reverse insted of the correct selection causing many accidents.Why would the government have to step in? I believe it was the complete failure of the Society of Automotive Engineers to develop safety standards.
Pelayo on December 5, 2008 at 11:39 PM
Every conservative needs to be reading Atlas Shrugged RIGHT F-ING NOW.
fossten on December 5, 2008 at 11:40 PM
.
As a general staement, Congress shouldn’t be allowed to tell America where the light switch is located on their cars. That’s part of the creative process of design. Any bailout for this industry is just selling out to the UAW unless it comes with fundamental reform.
highhopes on December 6, 2008 at 12:02 AM
WHERE’S OBAMA?
This is the same thing we got from “Mr.Hope and Change”in September when Fannie/Freddie started this slide.
Media coverage and words but no positions or actions.
NOTHING!!!
Haven’t we been hearing from the NY Times and entertainment
industry that they would like for him to start right away.
For what,to sit on the sidelines and wait until it is safe to take a position that the poles will show him to take.
If this is the liberals idea of leadership,the next 4 years
are going to be worse than expected.
Baxter Greene on December 6, 2008 at 12:15 AM
I’ve come under the impression that one of the problems Detroit, and GM in particular, have is the UAW’s incredible retirement package concessions.
What are the numbers? If GM, or any or all, go under this and other contractual obligations is effectively nullified, leaving thousands (more?) without their retirement. Wouldn’t the government have to bail them out, as well?
Government management of the auto industry will have the cars looking like egg cartons, filled with ‘features’ to keep us safe. No one will want them (c’mon, does the government have anything for sale you really want to buy?) which is a problem now – crappy cars that are too expensive, so the government will have to enact ‘protections’ for the 3 on Government Cheese, which will kill the hell out of the rest of the domestic auto manufacturers. How can the elected elite really be this dumb?
Besides, no one can actually buy a car without money, or credit. Wasn’t this whole thing started so credit would start flowing again? What the hell happened to that?
TinMan13 on December 6, 2008 at 12:19 AM
Except the only alternative to “congress telling America where the light switch is” on their cars (though indeed a gross exaggeration of even the worst case full nationalization scenario) is the current management and leadership structure…which has already failed catastrophically. So lets see, public sector (independently contracted) design (akin to NASA and Defense contracting) and government management, with real potential to be legislated in the open and done right, of only the worst off US automakers (GM maybe Chrysler), or proven catastrophic failure…ill take the former.
ernesto on December 6, 2008 at 12:21 AM
I keep wanting to compare the Big 3 and the UAW to hosts and parasites.
Confutus on December 6, 2008 at 12:21 AM
Supposed to be the other way around, isn’t it?
TinMan13 on December 6, 2008 at 12:23 AM
Ya can take the medicine now, or take it later. The taste isn’t going to change. What will change is the size of the hole left in the taxpayer’s wallet.
GarandFan on December 6, 2008 at 12:32 AM
Yeah, at times I swear the politicians, media, and bailout-beggars are stealing dialogue straight from Ayn Rand.
Jim62sch on December 6, 2008 at 12:33 AM
Yeah, but aren’t some parasites beneficial?
hillbillyjim on December 6, 2008 at 12:44 AM
Hey!!! If this is for America and the auto companies are too important not to help then we can pull a Reagan. When he fired the air traffic controllers because we had to keep the planes going it was for the good of the country. So, if the union ever goes on strike again, the union workers should be fired and bring in non-union help.
Vince on December 6, 2008 at 12:44 AM
In its present form, the UAW has no redeeming qualities, and the Big Three (Stooges)have very few.
hillbillyjim on December 6, 2008 at 12:49 AM
Have some compassion. It is not easy welding a part into place for $72.00/hour.
The bailout is coming, but I don’t know who is going to buy American junk. Those of us stupid enough to buy GM have spent enough time on the side of the road (AAA rules!) or sitting in Pep Boys (It’s like Cheers, I’m there so much I’ve worn an assgroove in my usual seat and everybody knows my name) that there is zero chance of me buying Americrap again.
Piglosi will have to outlaw foreign competition altogether.
Laura in Maryland on December 6, 2008 at 12:56 AM
Hope and Change?……………………..
………….yeah, this is great!
LET THEM FAIL, THEN GET A REAL JOB!!!!!
Seven Percent Solution on December 6, 2008 at 1:04 AM
++1
Kini on December 6, 2008 at 1:06 AM
The UMWA practically killed the coal industry here in Southwest Virginia in the ’80′s when Brazilian coal started replacing our exports due to our artificially (union) inflated labor costs.
The industry is slowly coming back, with non-union miners making good wages and earning good benefit packages. If card-check is passed, I look for these gains to be reversed over time.
Unions were a necessity in the youth of our industrial experience, but now are only a drain on capital and productivity, and a lead albatross around the neck of American businesses that must compete in a global marketplace.
hillbillyjim on December 6, 2008 at 1:09 AM
Wait till Obama’s Cap and Trade program takes effect.
Those electric cars…. cost you more to fill up
Kini on December 6, 2008 at 1:17 AM
The liberals won’t be happy until we’re a third-world nation.
hillbillyjim on December 6, 2008 at 1:25 AM
It’s for our own good, dontcha know.
We have to be and set the example for the world.
Kini on December 6, 2008 at 1:28 AM
I can’t believe the quote from the O.J. case by the judge didn’t make it. It was something like,
“When we started this case, I wasn’t sure if you were ignorant, or just an imbecile, or both. Now that we’ve reached the end, I have my answer. It’s both.”
Sir Corky on December 6, 2008 at 1:28 AM
With Cap and Trade, renewed union influence through card-check and union-owned politicians, and Obama’s support for now-nonexistent Clean Coal Technology (defined as coal-burning facilities that capture and sequester CO2), I can’t for the life of me fathom how we’re going to power all of these hallowed electric cars, much less afford to pay for the electricity they will require.
Maybe His vision of change involves national rolling blackouts and energy rationing?
hillbillyjim on December 6, 2008 at 1:34 AM
Although it’s hard to say there’s never any benefit to the host, by definition it’s an unequal relationship and the parasite benefits most.
Confutus on December 6, 2008 at 1:41 AM
Forgot to mention His Oneness’ glib statements about bankrupting any concern that built a new coal-fired power plant, but that’s part of his nifty hopeychangey Cap and Trade economy-killing program.
hillbillyjim on December 6, 2008 at 1:43 AM
Yes, in this case (the UAW), the parasite is only beneficial to the parasite, and deadly to the host over time.
hillbillyjim on December 6, 2008 at 1:46 AM
It’s kind of the price for being the worlds largest polluter.
Da kine of penance to pay. Even as “Clean Coal” is a misnomer of the highest degree, to charge your car with the electricity from these plants will put you in the poor house, it is the least we can do to sacrifice our way of living to make the planet mo bettah.
Let our suffering be the absolution the eyes of the world need to see. So they love us once again.
/barf
Kini on December 6, 2008 at 1:47 AM
In other words, to equate the UAW to parasites is to defame the parasites of this world.
hillbillyjim on December 6, 2008 at 1:48 AM
Look on the bright side. At least the oceans have healed.
hillbillyjim on December 6, 2008 at 1:51 AM
Symbiosis a relationship between the Big 3 and UAW in which each person is dependent upon and receives reinforcement, whether beneficial or detrimental, from the other they self abort.
Confutus – fix your link
Kini on December 6, 2008 at 1:53 AM
Still having a hard time wondering what was wrong with the oceans in the first place.
http://ecoscraps.com/2008/10/13/274-new-marine-species-discovered-in-southern-ocean/
Kini on December 6, 2008 at 1:59 AM
I keep reading here about American junk-the last 4 American cars my wife and I have leased in the last 6 years have been top quality and consumer ratings and test bears that out-been that way for quite a while now. My guess is that those of you who say you’ll never buy America again probably haven’t for some time now.
By the way, when you have a 10 year old car with 150,000 miles or so-expect a few problems and maintenance costs whether it’s foreign or American made.
Goodale on December 6, 2008 at 2:06 AM
I forgot to mention the best part. Think how proud Michelle can now be, and how wonderful this all is for her children.
hillbillyjim on December 6, 2008 at 2:10 AM
First time in her life I suppose.
These people think they are saving the planet.
But they have declared war on the the human race.
And don’t even know it.
Kini on December 6, 2008 at 2:20 AM
Absofrikkinlutely.
Getting late here.
Aloha.
hillbillyjim on December 6, 2008 at 2:23 AM
Where ever you are. Aloha.
Good night and God help us.
Kini on December 6, 2008 at 2:26 AM
Yes, but they won’t be Union jobs, so that must not be allowed to happen!
/Dem policy.
OldEnglish on December 6, 2008 at 2:46 AM
As I said before, I live in the Detroit area and I have been around the auto companies all my life. Many relatives work for them. My father worked for Ford Motor Company for over 40 years.
With that said, I feel that the bailout is the wrong thing to do. The auto companies need the shelter of a bankruptcy proceeding to shed old union obligations and remake themselves into a competitive business again. A bailout does not fix this.
If there is any government involvement into this, it should be limited in giving the auto company retirees a severely scaled down safety net on their pensions when the courts allow the companies to drop them. The retirees can live with Medicare like the rest of the population too.
The retired UAW workers have rode the auto companies into being non-competitive and on the verge of bankruptcy. It is time they realized they need to get off the gravy train and live like most of us have to in retirement. They have to do it for our country and the future generations that will depend on the jobs the auto industry provides.
Hawthorne on December 6, 2008 at 3:30 AM
I love how your long, rambling tale of chains and webs and tiers and drains and fear leaves out two glaring facts: Only heavily unionized auto companies are making over-priced cars nobody wants, and are the only ones failing. You see, if the Big Unionized 3 collapse, it will leave a gaping hole that could be filled with, wait for it, new non-union companies and factories making non-garbage vehicles!
Ah, but you knew that already.
TMK on December 6, 2008 at 4:48 AM
Moodys says the bill will reach 120 billion in the end to support Detroit.
the_nile on December 6, 2008 at 5:25 AM
I see. So what would prevent the tier 2 links from doing business with other surviving auto companies?
anuts on December 6, 2008 at 6:33 AM
Actually, I believe the foreign automakers do get government help, at least in the form of R&D, which is why Mitt wanted to spend 20 billion to compete. Also I know that Volvo was complaining that they couldn’t meet the emission standards imposed on them.
That being said, bankruptcy is the only way to remove the union’s stranglehold.
Buy Danish on December 6, 2008 at 6:46 AM
Bankruptcy probably is a better answer. It is the only way to clean up the books. I don’t know the answers. I admit, I am way over my head here.
Terrye on December 6, 2008 at 7:31 AM
You have the craven irresponsible begging the corrupt irresponsible for money so they can afford to pay the pensions of lazy irresponsible.
Of the times he lived in, Juvenal said “it’s hard not to write satires.”
casel21 on December 6, 2008 at 7:42 AM
I’ve been driving American-made vehicles for most of my life. I won’t buy another one. Ever.
Bugler on December 6, 2008 at 8:06 AM
To H3LL with the Unions.
They have pushed and pushed and brought companies to the brink of bankruptcy with the insane idea that the jobs marketplace isn’t smart enough to pay workers what they are worth. There are part time *unskilled* workers making over 100k in Detroit.
Then there is this ridiculous healthcare-for-life and 95% pension after 30 years. Gee I wonder where all the automakers money has gone.
Jobs are created by people buying things. As long as they buy cars people will be employed by the industry. LET THEM FAIL. The execs can start a new union-free company or go work for Honda/Toyota/etc.
DavidM on December 6, 2008 at 8:23 AM
Die unions! Die!!
Coronagold on December 6, 2008 at 8:25 AM
Let it burn.
jeff_from_mpls on December 6, 2008 at 8:49 AM
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