Quotes of the day
posted at 9:30 pm on December 5, 2008 by Allahpundit
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“Sachs’ testimony was striking in that he gave no ground when lawmakers complained that their constituents would be ‘mad’ with them for helping the auto companies.
‘They are going to be very mad when unemployment reaches 9%; they will be really mad if unemployment reaches 12%,’ he told Rep. Jackie Speier (D-Calif.). ‘If we allow the most important industry in this country to disintegrate, believe me, the fury will be nothing like what will happen when they hear about this kind of bailout.
‘We have to take the macro-economics seriously right now. We’re in the steepest descent we’ve been in in modern times. This is crucial to stop this. So the American people need to understand. This isn’t a favor for the industry. This is a favor for the American people… This is to brake a collapse of our economy that is under way right now.’”
*
“If there was ever any question whether Congress actually wants to ’save’ Detroit, this week dispelled it. This is not a bailout that Congress is debating. It is a federal takeover. We don’t mean that in the sense that the feds will own the companies on paper, although that can’t be ruled out. What Congress wants to own is their business plan, and Detroit seems prepared to oblige…
The car makers’ request for a bridge loan, by contrast, looks like a $34 billion bridge to nowhere. It has already morphed into an opportunity for political extortion — and we don’t even have a bill yet. When, in a couple years, costs have not come down as expected because of political pressure to keep the unions happy and the green cars aren’t selling — because they were designed in Washington, not for consumers — the companies will be back for more money.”
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When AIG, Bear Sterns and Citi came calling the govt wrote a blank check which will end up being in the hundreds of billions for these 3 alone. No questions asked, no conditions given.
Yet when the Big 3 ask for money it’s a whole circus show.
While I am opposed on principle to any bailout for anyone, I can see why some people are saying WTF is happening here. You give Wall St a blank check and yet the Big 3 have to beg for $25B?
There is something wrong with that scenario. Yes it is wrong for people making $20 an hour to subsidize the UAW worker making $40 an hour on the assembly line. But it’s nothing compared to the 99% of us who make less than $1M a year to subsidize the thousands of Wall St employees making seven figures who have been rewarded by the Wall St bailouts.
angryed on December 6, 2008 at 9:01 AM
” I wish a Ford and a Chevy still last 10 years like they should.
Is the rest of the free life behind us now and are the good times really over for good”.
Merle Haggard
thomasaur on December 6, 2008 at 9:34 AM
And how much of that 34 billion will be returned to politicians in the form of campaign donations.
Why we allow a bunch of bottom feeding lawyers to determine our economic policy is beyond me. I hate them.
Socmodfiscon on December 6, 2008 at 9:40 AM
You know,, there have been other car companies that have failed over the years. Other major businesses have as well. Let them fail and someone else will come along and take their place.
If they go bankrupt,, will the earth cease to exist? Will our resources disappear? No,, the earth, the land, the trees, water and soil will all remain. There will still be inventors and designers,, there will still be engineers and craftsmen,, there will still be people who will want to create business and bring things to market. There will still be consumers out there somewhere that will come up with the cash to buy products they want and need, and there will be those who have a strong enough desire to see that they create the right products at the price those consumers can afford.
JellyToast on December 6, 2008 at 9:54 AM
Disgusting bunch.
These idiots pandered to crooked politicians and the gangster/communist unions for so long that they no longer have any credibility or dignity. The ideal solution would be to tar and feather them then shove them out to sea in a small boat with holes in it.
rplat on December 6, 2008 at 9:57 AM
We have had very good luck with our Ford cars. We have two that are well over 10 years old and well over 100K miles and are still going strong. No rust, no oil use and start every time. I am still against the bail out but if I had money I was willing to spare I would buy Ford stock. Actually at the price of the stock I am sure I have the money I just don’t want to go through the trouble of reopening an account. Lazy.
Cindy Munford on December 6, 2008 at 10:01 AM
More: with the big 3 out, they would order even more parts from these vendors, probably at a discount for a while. Likely, even more of those “foreign” cars will be made in the US.
Count to 10 on December 6, 2008 at 10:02 AM
I think I was just using the first line to emphasize the second.
thomasaur on December 6, 2008 at 10:10 AM
It’s been proven by the previous bailouts that it doesn’t matter what the majority of the public thinks about this. So much for representing the people.
scalleywag on December 6, 2008 at 10:19 AM
Sachs is from the famous Columbia University, same as Ayers and Obama. This blowhard is in the tank for the UAW also. I wouldn’t take his opinion for a penny’s’ worth of salt.
la.rt.wngr on December 6, 2008 at 10:25 AM
Folks, this is chump change.
Congress is doing this to look tough to the American people, while NOT doing anything about the Unconstituional creation of large amounts of Money by the Federal Reserve Bank, to help out the banks WHICH OWN IT.
This is 35 or so billion, while DAILY the bank bailout grows, until now we are apparently on tap for 7.5 TRILLION.
This is a circus being used to distract the American electorate from the total takeover of the Banking industry by a select group, using US Fed Funds to do so.
Romeo13 on December 6, 2008 at 10:27 AM
I know, I was just making a stand for the product but noting that they don’t deserve any special treatment. I posted on the Union thread that I would love to have a break down of the number of employees and their salaries of the Union itself. It would be interesting to see what benefits they get when you consider that nothing changes for them if there is a strike and that they live off the dues of the workers. I think the Unions are getting a free ride in more ways then one in this mess.
Cindy Munford on December 6, 2008 at 10:28 AM
My son bought a 2002 Taurus. At the same time, I bought a 2002 Accord. We drive practically identical miles. He has put $2,000 into repairs, and his car is falling apart. I only had to replace a burned-out headlight, and my car runs like new. The company I work for supplies us with leased vehicles, and their policy limits them to Big Three vehicles. I put on 30K work miles a year, and have been provided with Chevy Celebrity, Dodge Dynasty, numerous Caravans, and a few Tauruses. Even the best of them cannot compare with the Accord.
I cannot even calculate how much the incompetence, corruption and union thuggery of the Big Three has cost America over the past 50 years. I would have to multiply every UAW-made vehicle sold in that period of time by what amount….maybe $5,000?
jay12 on December 6, 2008 at 10:34 AM
Ya know, i keep hearing about the “quality ” of the “new “american cars.This is nothing but pure unadulterated bullcrap.
go drive a 6 yr old ford,chrysler , or gm.
then
go drive a 6yr old honda or toyota.
results will speak for themselves.
UNREPENTANT CONSERVATIVE CAPITOLIST on December 6, 2008 at 10:48 AM
And now the Feds want to manage it all. We’ve seen how well that works. Look at the perks that federal employees get and the pols(which we pay for too). No matter what anybody does, the Big 3(as we know them presently)will NEVER AGAIN BE COMPETITIVE. They got too heavy and are collapsing on themselves and–unfortunately–the rest of us. Maybe we just have to let them have their “loans” in order to prove that they just can’t ever climb out of the pit they have all dug for themselves. A sure fire mess but with a silver lining–the UAW might become the poster boy for how unions can destroy an industry and themselves. Now–is it worth the price?
jeanie on December 6, 2008 at 10:52 AM
Exactly. No one likes to see a company fail, and the consequences aren’t very pleasant. But life goes on. We humans are kind of like a bunch of ants. Someone may step on our ant hill from time to time and things might grind to a halt, but it’s only a matter of minutes before it’s back to business as usual and everyone comes together to rebuild.
scalleywag on December 6, 2008 at 10:58 AM
I own and drive both an American auto (Chev) and a Japanese auto (Lexus). In my humble opinion the japanese product is far superior to the American product in both functionality and service. My experience with Honda’s and other American branded cars were similar. I have no bone to pick here . . . I simply know what I like.
rplat on December 6, 2008 at 11:01 AM
OT that picture on your banner for LGF’s Charles Johnson makes him look pretty sinister.
scalleywag on December 6, 2008 at 11:03 AM
Yugo!
PattyJ on December 6, 2008 at 11:13 AM
Hmmmm… and whats really funny, the Big Three are a micro experiement of our own Federal Government… let see…
The Big Three, through the Unions, made promises to workers that when they retired, they would be taken care of… free medical… pay… while knowing all the while that there was no funding for it….
The US Gov, has made promises to take care of all retirees, with funds and medical…. while knowing they do not have the funds to do it…
Big three, being smaller, are just going under first.
Romeo13 on December 6, 2008 at 11:15 AM
I have to admit that since I have never owned anything but a Big 3 vehicle I can’t in good conscience compare. But I will not hesitate to buy one of the others when the free market makes it’s decision.
Cindy Munford on December 6, 2008 at 11:21 AM
the sky is falling, the sky is falling.
let them file chapter 11 and end this circus of idiots now.
la.rt.wngr on December 6, 2008 at 11:26 AM
Detroit still has a manufacturing infrastructure, unless Granholm burns the factories to the ground before she leaves, and there are still plenty of creative and intelligent people who could find a way to put it to use. If the big three are allowed to fail, the vacuum will be filled by new people with new ideas. If they allow the union stranglehold to remain, the only people left will be the walking dead that are kept animated by puppet strings, and there won’t be any fertile ground left to work with here.
Let my people go, already.
ral514 on December 6, 2008 at 1:58 PM
Thanks, but no thanks.
BacaDog on December 6, 2008 at 2:23 PM
Have any of those publicity-seeking dildo reps we send to DC stepped back to look at the big picture. It’s really simple. Get government life savers, rescue boats and life lines unhooked from the sinking businesses. Keep our government, as pathetic as it is, safe from the economic whirlpool sucking life from the economy and, at least, save the Union from being sucked down that hole. Geez, this is suicide!!
PaCadle on December 6, 2008 at 6:41 PM
Nobody wants? So if I said nobody wants Apple computers would you believe me? After all, they have less than a 3% market share of the pc market. The American auto makers still have a 55% market share of the US car market. That’s right, a majority of cars sold here are by the Detroit companies. GM outsells Toyota. Ford and Chrysler both outsell Honda, Nissan and Hyundai.
Keep repeating the same bullshit about nobody buying American cars or that American cars are crap. I’m no fan of the UAW or other unions but you folks are as bad as 9/11 troofers in the urban legends and myths you believe.
If the domestic auto industry collapses, Toyota and Honda won’t be able to build cars here either. They rely on the same supply chain – which will no longer exist.
What would prevent them? Oh, just a little thing like being out of business. This is how it will be: GM is liquidated in a Ch. 7 bankruptcy. Tier 1 vendors go belly up because GM isn’t paying them what they are owed now that they are unsecured creditors. That means the Tier 2 vendors aren’t getting paid either and they also go out of business. While many vendors sell to the global auto industry, most US suppliers are dependent on sales to the domestic companies. When you lose 60% of your sales because your three biggest customers are no longer extant, it’s kinda hard to stay in business to serve the remaining 40%.
The lead time on many automotive components, even for the holy Toyota and the saintly Honda, is measured in years, not days. If the domestic companies implode, it will make it very difficult for the transplants to operate.
It will also make it very difficult for US defense plants to operate, since they rely on much of the same supply chain.
If HotAir is representative of the conservative movement I despair that conservatives will remain in the political wilderness for a generation. You guys are so angry at union boogeyman that you’d let our ability to build weapons disintegrate just to crush the UAW.
If you knew anything about the history of the US labor movement, and how fiercely Walter Reuther fought to keep communist and socialist influence out of the UAW, unlike, for example the Mine Workers union, you’d realize how silly you all sound. Like I said, I’m no fan of organized labor and consider it a necessary evil at best (along with stock markets and venture capitalists).
But hey, when its your job that’s chopped because of fallout from a liquidation of GM, well, I suppose you can blame the UAW.
Meanwhile, 1.8 million federal civilian non-postal employees average over $66,000/year in salaries and about an equal amount in benefits. California is broke because of public employee pensions. Federal employees average about $103K/yr in wages and benefits compared to $50K for people in the private sector. The federal government is transferring billions and billions out of California, the industrial Midwest, and states like New Jersey and sending it to the South, Southwest and the DC suburbs.
But go ahead, blame the UAW.
When we have to buy tanks and jets from the Chinese, you can tell me how it’s all the fault of greedy autoworkers.
Meanwhile, Google [Toyota, engine, sludge] and [Honda transmission problems] and tell me how perfect Japanese cars are.
rokemronnie on December 7, 2008 at 3:36 AM
I have a difficult time totally embracing the ‘let them fail’ side of the equation…
True or False:
CAFE standards imposed by the Federal Government manipulate what the Big 3 manufacture.
The Big 3 make profits on SUVs and Trucks, but lose money on many smaller, compact vehicles that are aprt of their strategy to reach a certain CAFE #.
(As mentioned) the Big 3 are heavily unionized, and have huge legacy costs. These are the primary differences between their cost equations and the cost equations of their foreign owned competitors, who build a large % of their cars here in the US, emplying US workers.
If I am wrong on any of these, please provide links. THX
Red State State of Mind on December 7, 2008 at 11:23 AM
Reading all of your comments this morning, I kept flashing back to:
http://snltranscripts.jt.org/86/86dadobe.phtml
Red State State of Mind on December 7, 2008 at 11:29 AM
rokemronnie and Red State: I don’t disagree at all, and my family will be in that group that suffers most if the auto companies go down. Please don’t think that I’m able to set that aside, for even a moment.
It’s just that I don’t see any way out of this mess without drastic failure. It isn’t all about CAFE standards and the UAW, it’s about a suicidal political climate that has taken over the whole environment. There aren’t any political or business leaders here to stand up for rationality – the only people able to rise to power and influence in Michigan are the leftists and their enablers. My neighbors continue to cancel out my vote with their mantras of hope and change. Do you know what happens when you try to reason with these people? I suspect that most here do know, and the rest can well imagine.
My god, they reelected Granholm after she spent 4 years promising that, if we were just willing to make one more sacrifice, happy days would be here again. She’s trying to increase the gas and sales tax AGAIN, and I have no doubt that she’d still win reelection if she was able to run. There are plenty of decent and intelligent people that are still here, but we’re hopelessly outnumbered. I suspect that there are a lot of people here who are realizing that they’ve been backing failed ideas, but they’ve been arguing for those ideas so forcefully, for so long, that they can’t back down now without admitting to allowing an unconscionable amount of responsibility for the harm that’s been done. Most of them took their positions out of a desire to feel good to begin with, so they’re not likely to adopt any new position that would make them feel that “bad”.
Such a waste. Such a ridiculous waste. If there’s a way off of this cliff edge, I’m listening, and I keep hoping that someone actually does know of one, but I’m fresh out of ideas. All I know is that it’s sometimes easier to rebuild than to repair, but you have to do it before all of the resources are destroyed.
ral514 on December 7, 2008 at 3:56 PM
ral514m
Democratic politicians are like baseball managers. Failure is a career advancing move. Even when they lose elections, they get appointed to sinecures. Look at Sandy Levin’s son, Andy, who lost a 2006 election to the state Senate. Granholm appointed him to be assistant director of the Mich. dept. of labor and economic development @ $124,000 a year plus bennies.
When I see what kind of pay and benefits government employees make it’s almost enough for me to say to hell with the private sector. When I see the feds shoveling money at billionaire bankers I feel like finding out how I can get on the gravy train.
rokemronnie on December 7, 2008 at 8:22 PM
Progress?
2000 yrs ago, 3 wise men sought to give gifts.
Today, 3 unwise men seek to get gifts.
jgapinoy on December 8, 2008 at 8:47 AM
That is exactly the point I try to make. Yes, it seems that free market principles would dictate that we let the auto companies fail, and I would love to stick to that, but there is a lot more connected to them than just the companies themselves. Bankruptcy might not eliminate all of them, but it could certainly eliminate quite a large number of companies that are in direct business with one of the big three. And yeah, that would be pretty darn painful for our country. I like that you mentioned defense, that is something I hadn’t thought of.
Because I live in Michigan and the company I work for is connected to GM, I would really hate to see them go under. And that isn’t only because of my job, but because a lot of the tool and die industry/manufacturing in my area does the majority of their work for the auto companies. That’s a lot of commerce in the area, indirectly connected but reliant upon Detroit.
How we elected her again is beyond me. We’ve had one of the worst economies and highest unemployment rates among the states for quite a long time; while not her fault directly, it doesn’t seem to me that Lansing’s approach really helps.
thequeball on December 8, 2008 at 11:50 AM
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