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CNN 2012 poll: Huckabee 34, Palin 32 among Republicans and independents

posted at 4:20 pm on December 5, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Tough choice. Do we go with the blue-collar populist social con who’s soft on immigration? Or do we go with Huckabee?

Relax. It’s within the margin of error.

“It might come as a surprise to some that Palin does better than Huckabee among GOP men but that Huckabee beats Palin among Republican women,” says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. “Palin’s strength is also concentrated among older Republicans, but Huckabee may have a slight edge among conservative Republicans.”

Among voters who consider themselves born again or evangelical, Huckabee draws more support than Palin, with a 9 point edge. Meanwhile, Palin holds a 7-point advantage among non-born again or evangelical voters.

Mitt pulls 28, Gingrich 27, Giuliani(!) 23, and Jindal 19. The good news? If this is the race we end up with, come 2011 there’ll be a new Kathleen Parker “oogedy boogedy” column every week. Exit question: To the extent there’s anything newsworthy about this moronic poll, which, like all the rest thus far, shows Palin atop the field, what’s more significant? The fact that Huck seems to have a base of fanatic supporters as large as hers? (The 34/32 number comes from voters who say they’re “very likely” to support their candidate. If you include “somewhat likelies,” Palin leads by two.) Or the fact that the ‘Cuda leads significantly head to head among non-religious voters? Given her strict views on abortion and the media’s demagoguery of her beliefs, I’m reading that data less as a reflection on her than as a perception that Huckabee’s a hardline theocon.


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Sarah Palin has nothing to be ashamed of in having cut her teeth as the mayor of a small town. I’m much rather have a president who started her career governing on a local level with all the decisions that involves with maintaining a police force and dealing with crime and public ordinances, taking care of schools, attracting businesses and jobs, and listening first hand to all the problems ordinary people face every day. I’d rather have that the your typical lawyer politician who moves to D.C. and cuts his or her teeth at Fedzilla land by finding the best way to keep his or her job by not doing too much but doing enough to pretend that they’re doing a good job. Fedzilla is the problem with this country. Small town mayors are the solution.

ramrocks on December 5, 2008 at 8:19 PM

Notice who was leading the CNN poll (HUckabee) and who most of us are talking about (Sarah) on the thread.

technopeasant on December 5, 2008 at 8:10 PM

More telling, see which one inspires the most hatred on the left. That one’s the real threat.

ddrintn on December 5, 2008 at 8:19 PM

Become a liberal, pro-choice Democrat. Nothing else would do.

Look, you’re arguing with a fanatic. Don’t waste any more time on it. Might as well try to get a Wahhabi to become a Jew.

ddrintn on December 5, 2008 at 8:16 PM

ROTFLMAO!!! You rock!

ramrocks on December 5, 2008 at 8:20 PM

Sarah Palin has nothing to be ashamed of in having cut her teeth as the mayor of a small town.

ramrocks on December 5, 2008 at 8:19 PM

I couldn’t care less if she was the mayor of Wasilla or Chicago. What matters is that she seems to be well-grounded, has common sense and a pretty firm sense of right and wrong. None of which characteristics I can apply to either Obama or Mr. and Mrs. Clinton.

ddrintn on December 5, 2008 at 8:22 PM

No thanks to Huckabee.. He’d sell his soul to the devil.

reshas1 on December 5, 2008 at 8:23 PM

Look, you’re arguing with a fanatic. Don’t waste any more time on it. Might as well try to get a Wahhabi to become a Jew.

ddrintn on December 5, 2008 at 8:16 PM

Its not that bad. If Noneya can see the Democrat problem on foreign policy, he still has a chance to pull himself out of the muck, but these things don’t happen overnight.
Usually.

Count to 10 on December 5, 2008 at 8:24 PM

No thanks to Huckabee.. He’d sell his soul to the devil.

reshas1 on December 5, 2008 at 8:23 PM

Its not his soul most should worry about.

Count to 10 on December 5, 2008 at 8:25 PM

Does anybody know Huckabee’s record as Governor of Arkansas in terms of his views on fiscal conservatism and tobacco?

technopeasant on December 5, 2008 at 8:30 PM

Does anybody know Huckabee’s record as Governor of Arkansas in terms of his views on fiscal conservatism and tobacco?

technopeasant on December 5, 2008 at 8:30 PM

Not with great detail, but I hear that it is lousy.

Count to 10 on December 5, 2008 at 8:35 PM

….. I’m much rather have a president who started her career governing on a local level with all the decisions that involves with maintaining a police force and dealing with crime and public ordinances, taking care of schools, attracting businesses and jobs, and listening first hand to all the problems ordinary people face every day. I’d rather have that the your typical lawyer politician who moves to D.C. …… Fedzilla is the problem with this country. Small town mayors are the solution.

ramrocks on December 5, 2008 at 8:19 PM

Bulls Eye, Ramrocks. like the Founders envisioned, we need citizen politicians, not an elite ruling class.

Red State State of Mind on December 5, 2008 at 8:38 PM

2012 is going to be hard enough, no matter how much of a mess Obama makes. It might be too soon to nominate Palin, but I promise you guys this: we nominate Huck, we’re f**ked. It will be a Mondale style blowout. McCain lost because he was a backstabbing lowlife and a good portion of his party hated his guts enough to watch him crash and burn. Huckabee is like the weird kid that bites that nobody wants to play with; we hate him just because we can feel the wrongness. If we want to lose that bad, don’t nominate anyone; just concede. It will be less embarassing than nominating that bloody idiot and getting our a**es kicked and laughed at.

austinnelly on December 5, 2008 at 8:45 PM

Does anybody know Huckabee’s record as Governor of Arkansas in terms of his views on fiscal conservatism and tobacco?

technopeasant on December 5, 2008 at 8:30 PM

One of the things that is most often reported inaccurately is Governor Huckabee’s tax record. There will always be groups like The Club for Growth, and Cato Institute who will never be satisfied, and who will continue to attack Governor Huckabee.

These groups like to oversimplify an issue, and while Governor, Mike Huckabee learned that many issues were not cut and dried. State government’s job is to provide prisons and state police for public safety, good roads for transportation and public education.

As Governor, that is what he did while being responsible with the revenue and state budget. Keeping the state budget balanced and spending as low as possible wasn’t easy because he also had to deal with a state legislature that had the largest percentage of Democrats of any in the country as well as court mandates from judges who think spending more and more tax dollars is the only solution to any problem.

Tax Cuts

Mike Huckabee is a fiscal conservative who cut taxes almost 100 times in the state of Arkansas.
Mike Huckabee returned almost $400 million to Arkansas taxpayers. He believes it is immoral to take more money from taxpayers than is needed to run the government, and if a surplus occurs because of growth in the economy and good fiscal policy, it should be returned to the people.

He was the first Governor of Arkansas to pass a broad-based tax cut in the history of the state.

He also doubled the standard deduction to $2,000 for individuals and to $4,000 for married couples, as well as the child care tax credit and eliminated the marriage penalty.

He eliminated the capital gains tax on the sale of a home.

He eliminated the state income tax for families below the poverty line.

He reduced the capital gains tax for businesses and individuals.

He indexed the income tax to protect people from paying higher taxes because of “bracket creep.”

Governor Huckabee left the state with almost a $1 billion surplus- a state record, setting the stage for further tax reductions. The “Huckabee Surplus” enabled his successor to follow Huckabee’s lead to begin the elimination of the state sales tax on food.

He urged that the surplus should go back to the taxpayers in the form of a rebate or tax cut.

He cut welfare rolls by almost 50 percent.

With respect to the tax and spending that he had under his control, spending rose about six-tenths of one percent a year during his ten-and-a-half year tenure.

Governor Huckabee established the Murphy Commission by Executive Order (his first as governor) to streamline government to save taxpayers’ dollars and make government more efficient.

Governor Huckabee also led efforts to establish a Taxpayers’ Bill of Rights and a Property Taxpayers’ Bill of Rights, which established a uniform notice and due process procedure guaranteeing all Arkansans they will be treated fairly in the assessment of property taxes.

Tax Increases and answers as to why:

Governor Huckabee worked hard to ensure that any tax increase we needed were supported and approved by Arkansans. We were not going to have a case of the Legislature imposing general tax increases on the people behind closed doors.

He made sure any tax increase was targeted, time-limited, and addressed specific state needs. Huckabee has been outspoken in saying that a significant portion of almost $1 billion in state surplus should go back to the taxpayers. He has always believed that a tax refund or reduction makes more sense than a government spending spree.

In 1996 voters approved an increase in the sales tax to support conservation which was a wonderful investment in Arkansas. 1/8 cent sales tax increase approved by voters to fund conservation and park services to preserve Arkansas natural and cultural heritage.

In 1999, Arkansans supported a fuel tax increase that allowed Arkansas to completely rehabilitate the interstate highway system, changing the interstate system from one of the worst in the country to the best according to Truckers Magazine. The $1 billion project was completed on budget and on time. The legislature passed the gas tax, but it wouldn’t be implemented unless the people voted on, and approved, the bond issue; which was passed by an 80% vote of the people in 1999.

In 2001, a sales tax increase offset revenue lost from constitutional amendment cutting property taxes by $180 million. The sales tax increase and property tax cut were voted on by citizens of Arkansas – they chose how to be taxed.

In 2003, a cigarette tax increase of 25 cents per pack funded state healthcare obligations. Arkansas tobacco taxes are still low, 33rd in the U. S.

In 2003, there was a temporary increase in the income tax to offset the economic recession our country was facing in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001. They were needed for one year, and unlike most “temporary taxes,” Governor Huckabee made sure that the legislature kept its promise to the people that it was eliminated after two years.

In 2003, Arkansas had a $110 million hole in the state budget that had to be addressed aggressively. Medicaid, education, and prisons were the main areas that needed funding to keep them operating. Those three services took up to 91 percent of the general revenue fund. Arkansas didn’t have the revenue coming in that was needed to meet the expenses going out and it got to the point where we didn’t have the money to meet basic obligations to the state.

In 2004, he allowed a 7/8 cent sales tax increase to become law without his signature to comply with a Supreme Court order to increase funding for education, which avoided the courts taking over public education in Arkansas. Mike Huckabee was the first governor in state history to oppose a tax increase. He had already cut state budget by 11%.

SPENDING

Club for Growth says that state spending in Arkansas increased 49% during Governor’s ten-year tenure. THIS MUST BE PUT IN CONTEXT – a 49% increase is in line with a 46% increase in aggregate state spending over same time period. It’s still much lower than the 70% increase in federal spending for that period.

The Governor didn’t control higher education spending as that is controlled by the trustees of each institution. Those who want to distort Governor Huckabee’s record of tax and spending includes those in higher education to further their own goals.

Arkansas ranks 43rd so far this decade in spending as a percentage of personal income – this is a fairer judge of spending given disparity between poorer and richer states.

States have to increase spending every year by at least 5-6% just to keep up with rising costs of healthcare, education, and other services.

Spending that Governor controlled, not federal pass-throughs and programs controlled by the Democrat legislature, rose only about six-tenths of one percent a year during his tenure.

Minimum Wage –he increased minimum wage by $1.10 to avoid passage of a constitutional amendment that would have increased minimum wage annually by the amount of inflation. The Governor accepted one-shot deal as price of avoiding regular increases.

jparks1972 on December 5, 2008 at 8:48 PM

Huckabee, shmuckabee! Do we REALLY want to lose AGAIN???

ErinF on December 5, 2008 at 8:52 PM

Ah yes, Mike Huckabee is ready to pick up the McCain mantle and destroy the GOP once and for all.

Jim-Rose on December 5, 2008 at 8:54 PM

Huckabee is a whiner … the only serious Republicans left from this election cycle that do not whine are Palin, Romney and Rudy

joey24007 on December 5, 2008 at 8:57 PM

As a politician, Brother Mike makes a great talk show host. He’s a funny guy, very personable, and has some good ideas, but he’s just not a front-runner.

kingsjester on December 5, 2008 at 8:59 PM

Bulls Eye, Ramrocks. like the Founders envisioned, we need citizen politicians, not an elite ruling class.

Red State State of Mind on December 5, 2008 at 8:38 PM

We need politicians who will listen. I read this also in Johnson’s bio:

On the campaign trail, Sarah didn’t make promises she couldn’t keep. At one meeting with a group of trawlers and processors on Kodiak Island, Sarah listened but respectfully disagreed on a particular issue. Volunteer Frank Bailey recalled that before wrapping up the meeting she told the fishermen, “At this point I’ll understand if you decide to support my opponent. Regardless of that, if I become governor I want you to know that I respect your views and will continue to listen to your concerns.”

The next morning, back at Anchorage campaign headquarters, the fishermen’s group called asking for two large eight-foot “Palin for Governor” signs to display in Kodiak. “We’ve decided to support Sarah because we believe she’ll listen,” the caller said.

[....]

More than Sarah Palin’s stance on any particular issue, the message that moved Alaskans was Sarah’s simple promise:

“I’ll listen.”

Earlier in the book, Johnson notes the following:

“Sarah’s governance is consensus oriented,” [Mat-Su Borough manager Donald] Moore added. “She makes sure everyone has a chance to have a say; nobody gets left out. But there comes a point when the debate is over and a decision has to be made. She’s also the type of manager that once she reaches her cadence, she expects everyone to keep up.”

ramrocks on December 5, 2008 at 9:00 PM

I don’t know if you’re hockey fans but Sean Avery got suspended 6 games for saying some unkindly and indiscreet words about his ex-girlfriend but if he had hit an opposing player from behind for the purpose of breaking his neck he would have got a 3-5 game suspension. I ask you: what is the worst crime? This is what is wrong with political correctness: that it infringes on and penalizes one for free speech and taking advantage of one’s first amendment rights, that it promotes ridiculous and untenable situations. decisions and punishments so as to cater to groups who are intimidating and may threaten your business (thug element) and that it promotes guilt concepts such as ‘white (historical) guilt’ that helped get Obama elected which the MSM could 24/7 use as a club against the GOP and to ‘beat some sense’ into undecided voters thus increasing the GOTV for Obama. Out of political correctness, group intimidation and thuggery and white guilt are we going to send the righteous soul of America down to the river Styx for its final burial while we wallow in our own despair watching CNN on a daily basis permanently etch Messiah’s visage into Mount Rushmore, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity being deprived of their livelihood and liberty, and the country we all love so much turn into a socialist Utopian paradise where freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength and war is peace?

technopeasant on December 5, 2008 at 9:00 PM

2012 is too soon for Palin and Jindal. Let them govern their states for a while longer.

Who else of the rest is a “true” conservative?

Crux Australis on December 5, 2008 at 9:09 PM

technopeasant on December 5, 2008 at 9:00 PM

I hate Sean Avery, Sean Avery is a gnat who deserves to be crushed by Scott Stevens and knocked out like Eric Lindros … Avery is a piece of garbage on and off the ice

Go Devils

joey24007 on December 5, 2008 at 9:12 PM

jparks1972 on December 5, 2008 at 8:48 PM

Dude, do you work for the Huckster or do you really carry his campaign and talking points around in your head?

Fours before the next election and you post all of that?

Pardner, you got some serious Huck hang ups. You need to get a life.

UT Cowboy on December 5, 2008 at 9:15 PM

They said that about Wayne Gretzky, Tiger Woods, Mozart and Maria Sharapova as well-let them grow and develop first; they’re not ready yet. Hey for some special folks that come around every 20-40 years the time is now; they are that good and that ready.

technopeasant on December 5, 2008 at 9:16 PM

Go Devils

joey24007 on December 5, 2008 at 9:12 PM

Jersey boy. *snickers*

Go Red Wings!

BTW, my favorite aspect of this past election was the introduction into the national lexicon of the term “Hockey Mom”. This native of Hockeytown approves.

ramrocks on December 5, 2008 at 9:20 PM

No waaay. I have trouble believing this. I suspect this is the same poll that brought us McCain… and would have brought us Lieberman, had they thought we’d swallow it.

petefrt on December 5, 2008 at 9:22 PM

My 2 cents? Who cares what a CNN poll says about who the GOP frontrunners are for 2012? Aren’t you guys tired of this sh!*?

the_stoics on December 5, 2008 at 9:22 PM

technopeasant on December 5, 2008 at 9:00 PM

I love how you always find some way to develop a sometimes arcane sports related analogy/anecdote to illustrate your point. If a thread lasts long enough, you always find some way to get the sports analogy in.

LOL! Good on ya. ;)

ramrocks on December 5, 2008 at 9:23 PM

What it shows is that CNN is ready to play ball with our heads again and that the 2010 and 2012 campaign has aready started. The question is are we going to sit by on the sidelines and let them do to the conservative movement the same thing that they did in the 2008 election cycle?

technopeasant on December 5, 2008 at 9:27 PM

What it shows is that CNN is ready to play ball with our heads again and that the 2010 and 2012 campaign has aready started. The question is are we going to sit by on the sidelines and let them do to the conservative movement the same thing that they did in the 2008 election cycle?

technopeasant on December 5, 2008 at 9:27 PM

I’ve heard about independents voting in NH and skewing the primaries. But I still think that we ended up with McCain because Huckabee and Romney split the vote between them and McCain eked out a slim victory over the two. I don’t think CNN had anything to do with it, and I really don’t think those last minute “low information” swing voters care what CNN tells them every four years when they decide to vote.

ramrocks on December 5, 2008 at 9:32 PM

ramrocks: let’s resolve to put the baton in Sarah’s hand so she can run with it all the way to the finish line at the 2012 GOP Convention.

technopeasant on December 5, 2008 at 9:34 PM

Here is how fiscally conservative Huckabee is.

That turns out to be far from the whole story. The Arkansas Department of Finance and Administration found that 90 tax cuts were enacted in legislative sessions from 1997 through 2005, while Huckabee was governor, and those cuts reduced tax revenues by $378 million. But Huckabee fails to mention the 21 tax increases that occurred under his watch and that raised revenues by substantially more. The total net tax increase under Huckabee’s tenure was an estimated $505.1 million, says the Department of Finance and Administration’s Whitney McLaughlin, adding that the figure has been adjusted for inflation.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/huckabees_fiscal_record.html

V15J on December 5, 2008 at 9:35 PM

Go Red Wings!

BTW, my favorite aspect of this past election was the introduction into the national lexicon of the term “Hockey Mom”. This native of Hockeytown approves.

ramrocks on December 5, 2008 at 9:20 PM

Hey, remember 1995? bwahaha

Scott Niedermayer goes “coast to coast”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYGS-ooHq8w

Scott Stevens destroys Kozlov
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYQf9cxzJFg

joey24007 on December 5, 2008 at 9:39 PM

…Sarah began delivering on campaign promises. First, she took a pay cut, from $68,000 a year to $64,200. Second, she cut property taxes from 2 mills to 1.2 mills and eliminated personal property taxes and a business inventory tax. Third, she pushed through a $5.5 million road and sewer bond designed to attract new commercial development…
ramrocks on December 5, 2008 at 8:01 PM

The truth about Palin’s “paycut”.

But just-released records from the Wasilla clerk’s office show a slightly more complicated picture. Palin’s pay did drop from $64,200 in October 1996 to $61,200 in January 1997, but in June 1998 it jumped to $68,000. Palin’s pay did dip once more in July 1999 to $66,000, according to the records, but it jumped back to $68,000 three months later, and it stayed at that level until Palin left office in October of 2002.

ramrocks again.

or her work as Governor in which she negotiated and today has signed the license on a $40 billion natural gas pipeline which will be the largest private infrastructure project in North American history.

This will not be the largest infrastructure project in NA history because it will never happen. This license doesn’t obligate anyone to make anything, it only obligates Alaska to pay a Canadian company a half a billion bucks to do some paperwork.

lowandslow on December 5, 2008 at 9:51 PM

but CNN and the MSM will make every effort to thwart and undermine the conservative base from attaching itself to one of their own too early in the process. Don’t be surprised in the backrooms of the MSM if program directors, with specific directive from their liberal masters, are not meeting daily to hatch nefarious ideas and to decide who to focus on, who to attack and ridicule and who to showcase and make more viable to make a certain contest more competitive and better ensure that the GOP victor in the primary state and hopefully overall is someone that does not stack up well against Obama. ramrocks, you better believe that the MSM orchestrates a lot of this s**t. Goebbels would be proud of such tactics and propaganda. As conservatives as I have said on several occasions we must decide on one conservative candidate as soon as we can in the next election cycle to prevent the MSM from playing its ‘divide and conquer’ card and frustrating our chances of beating Obama. Let’s say Sarah decides to run and Sarah has the race all sewn up by the end of 2010 or spring 2011-do you think that the impact of that coalescence around one candidate would be felt all the way down to the grassroots in terms of enthusiasm, fundraising and GOTV, let alone the time it would give Sarah to prepare for the coming war in the fall of 2012?

technopeasant on December 5, 2008 at 9:55 PM

lowandslow on December 5, 2008 at 9:51 PM

Um, you want to give me a source for that info? And, basically, she took a pay cut, just as I wrote.

As for the natural gas pipeline, you must not understand AGIA because the whole point of how it was crafted is to insure that there are specific legal measurable progress goals in the construction of the pipeline. The license was signed today. The project is on target. It’ll be completely finished by 2019.

It’s really quite an amazing victory for Alaska and the US. It’s also quite sad that your hatred of Palin blinds you to this. Perhaps you would prefer that we go to war with Putin and Chavez over their resources instead of using our own natural gas?

ramrocks on December 5, 2008 at 10:18 PM

but but we need mystical green energy to power our 10th century windmills and v-1 Pelosi-Scooters

joey24007 on December 5, 2008 at 10:23 PM

My 2 cents? Who cares what a CNN poll says about who the GOP frontrunners are for 2012? Aren’t you guys tired of this sh!*?

the_stoics on December 5, 2008 at 9:22 PM

YES!!! I was afraid to say it, but now that you mention it…
I couldn’t stand the polls before the election, and I cannot believe we’re still doing this! It’s a bunch of speculation and I for one am sick of it.

4shoes on December 5, 2008 at 10:26 PM

Hey, remember 1995? bwahaha

joey24007 on December 5, 2008 at 9:39 PM

GRRRRRRRR…

We’ve made up for that many, many times since then — from this one to this one and numerous in between!

ramrocks on December 5, 2008 at 10:29 PM

What it shows is that CNN is ready to play ball with our heads again and that the 2010 and 2012 campaign has aready started. The question is are we going to sit by on the sidelines and let them do to the conservative movement the same thing that they did in the 2008 election cycle?

technopeasant on December 5, 2008 at 9:27 PM

Exactly! I plan on ignoring the polls and focusing on who I like and what qualities they have that can help this country. I also plan on doing more as far as helping the campaign spread the word.

4shoes on December 5, 2008 at 10:31 PM

Oh and by the way…. GO PENS!

4shoes on December 5, 2008 at 10:34 PM

As for the natural gas pipeline, you must not understand AGIA because the whole point of how it was crafted is to insure that there are specific legal measurable progress goals in the construction of the pipeline. The license was signed today. The project is on target. It’ll be completely finished by 2019.

It’s really quite an amazing victory for Alaska and the US. It’s also quite sad that your hatred of Palin blinds you to this. Perhaps you would prefer that we go to war with Putin and Chavez over their resources instead of using our own natural gas?

ramrocks on December 5, 2008 at 10:18 PM

No, the pipeline dream ends in 2010 when it goes to open season and it gets no commitments. It’s that simple. It’s not a victory for Alaska or the U.S., it’s just more of the same, playing politics. All while pissing away more time and money.

lowandslow on December 5, 2008 at 10:37 PM

Gotta love my Giuliani holdouts.

We never stopped loving him, we just never got a chance to vote for him in the primary.

jimmy the notable on December 5, 2008 at 10:41 PM

We’ve made up for that many, many times since then — from this one to this one and numerous in between!

ramrocks on December 5, 2008 at 10:29 PM

yes but … head to head and all that jazz

and we have won twice since then

hell we even lost one!

to Colorado … ugh

joey24007 on December 5, 2008 at 10:41 PM

2012 is too soon for Palin and Jindal. Let them govern their states for a while longer.

Who else of the rest is a “true” conservative?

Crux Australis on December 5, 2008 at 9:09 PM

You might be right. If Obama-Mania is still rampant (I doubt) than don’t waste Palin & Jindal on 2012. Let them come back in 2016. Send in the Placebo for 2012. Has anyone seen Bob Dole? He did well in ‘96.

portlandon on December 5, 2008 at 10:42 PM

portlandon on December 5, 2008 at 10:42 PM

Huckabee – McCain 2012!

joey24007 on December 5, 2008 at 10:44 PM

Has anyone seen Bob Dole? He did well in ‘96.

portlandon on December 5, 2008 at 10:42 PM

Which reminds me, Liz lost here in NC, and I never even saw an interview with her…nary a word about her losing…weird.

right2bright on December 5, 2008 at 10:47 PM

Say what you will about Huckleberry’s policies, his IQ is about 50 points higher than Palin’s.

And that’s a conservative estimate.

benny shakar on December 5, 2008 at 10:49 PM

So probably is the IQ of Arlen Spector. What do think of the Warren Report and ‘the single bullet theory’? Give me someone with common sense, prudence, mettle and moxie every day of the week.

technopeasant on December 5, 2008 at 10:56 PM

It’s amazing when I read some of the comments about Sarah, especially the ones that say ’she is not a deep enough thinker’. Sarah was not running for resident philosopher in the White House. Secondly, have you ever heard her speak at a podium, especially without a teleprompter? Folks, the last time I checked: as a human being you have to think before you can speak. Is Sarah as intelligent as Mozart, Einstein or Michelangelo? No, but few people are.

technopeasant on December 5, 2008 at 11:04 PM

to Colorado … ugh

joey24007 on December 5, 2008 at 10:41 PM

Now that’s something we can both agree upon! The Avalanches suck.

ramrocks on December 5, 2008 at 11:04 PM

If Benny is supporting Huckabee, I saw we’re on the right track with the ‘Cuda!

conservative_in_texas on December 5, 2008 at 11:06 PM

Say what you will about Huckleberry’s policies, his IQ is about 50 points higher than Palin’s.

And that’s a conservative estimate.

benny shakar on December 5, 2008 at 10:49 PM

This scientific measurement is based on the Democratic Threat Scale: a prospective candidate’s intelligence is expressed as an inverse measurement of how likely they are to kick Democrat ass. The higher that likelihood, the lower the (totally hypothetical) IQ.

ddrintn on December 5, 2008 at 11:07 PM

No, the pipeline dream ends in 2010 when it goes to open season and it gets no commitments. It’s that simple. It’s not a victory for Alaska or the U.S., it’s just more of the same, playing politics. All while pissing away more time and money.

lowandslow on December 5, 2008 at 10:37 PM

I’m just noted this for later so that I can come back in two years and go “nah nah nuh nah nah”.

ramrocks on December 5, 2008 at 11:08 PM

Say what you will about Huckleberry’s policies, his IQ is about 50 points higher than Palin’s.

And that’s a conservative estimate.

benny shakar on December 5, 2008 at 10:49 PM

Yeah, Benny has apparently personally measured the IQs of all prominent figures in American politics.

Benny, what do you say to Elaine Lafferty’s assessment? Have you spent enough time with Sarah Palin to be able to refute it?

Jim62sch on December 5, 2008 at 11:17 PM

12 months ago, Rudy and Her Majesty were the polling favorites to win the party nominations. Look how that turned out. Are we seriously entertaining polls this far out, or are we simply chumming the waters? Oh wait, it’s Allah. It’s chum.

Physics Geek on December 5, 2008 at 11:20 PM

The ADN on the clothes disclosures from the RNC today with a statement from Meg Stapleton on behalf of Palin (a couple of bonus links from the ADN related to Tasergate here and here) . It also mentions that the clothes issue doesn’t seem to be hurting the ‘Cuda based on the polling from CNN.

meltenn on December 5, 2008 at 11:20 PM

Have you spent enough time with Sarah Palin to be able to refute it?

Jim62sch on December 5, 2008 at 11:17 PM

As noted elsewhere: “Sarah is a very gracious woman, but she doesn’t suffer fools.”

ramrocks on December 5, 2008 at 11:25 PM

meltenn on December 5, 2008 at 11:20 PM

From the article:

They show spa expenses and shopping trips for additional “campaign accessories” from dozens of stores in various cities including Toys “R” Us ($151.71), the shoe store Aldo ($431.24), Saks Fifth Avenue ($4,542), Neiman Marcus ($2,952) and Victoria’s Secret locations in Philadelphia and Cincinnati ($148.37).

Okay, I can understand spa expenses because when a candidate works 19 hour days, a massage is appropriate. I can even understand Toys R Us — you need last minute baby stuff. But what the heck did she need at Victoria’s Secret — twice? LOL!

I could really care less about all of this. Having worked on sets and organized large events, I’m well away of fluke last minute purchases that add up. A campaign must be amazing for all such expenses. I wouldn’t be surprised if in time we learn that she spent less than the other candidates.

ramrocks on December 5, 2008 at 11:34 PM

I’m just noted this for later so that I can come back in two years and go “nah nah nuh nah nah”.

ramrocks on December 5, 2008 at 11:08 PM

Why wait two years, explain it to me now. You claim I don’t understand AGIA but it seems I understand it a whole lot better then you. I even understand that BP & ConocoPhillips Denali pipeline isn’t going have enough of a commitment from Exxon for them to get through their open season. The ironic thing is the only hope for any viable pipeline (Denali) would have been if Exxon could have moved forward this winter at Point Thompson and the Palin Administration themselves obstructed that. And that was a viable pipeline proposal, Palin’s and TransCanadas pipeline was dead before it even started. Now show me where I’m wrong.

lowandslow on December 5, 2008 at 11:36 PM

This scientific measurement is based on the Democratic Threat Scale: a prospective candidate’s intelligence is expressed as an inverse measurement of how likely they are to kick Democrat ass. The higher that likelihood, the lower the (totally hypothetical) IQ.

Good call.

It seems that many people on the left have low self-esteem and no confidence and as a result they resort to insulting the intelligence of someone more successful and smarter as a way to compensate for their own inability to achieve anything.

V15J on December 5, 2008 at 11:40 PM

I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that McCain staffers were embezzling stuff and charging it off to “Palin expenses”.

Jim62sch on December 5, 2008 at 11:43 PM

To this day, the Governor has not seen a list of expenses for the campaign and its staff, and she does not know who benefitted from all the expenditures reported.

So Palin thinks some folks were going shopping while she was on the campaign trail?

An Era of Hate on December 5, 2008 at 11:46 PM

All this only means that the MSM looked at the Chambliss win and panicked and are trying to diminish Palin anyway they can. To believe Huckabee can get anywhere close to palin is plain ridiculous. BTW, does anyone remember the CNN’s show-of-hands poll? This must be one more isntance of that.

promachus on December 5, 2008 at 11:47 PM

Jim62sch on December 5, 2008 at 11:43 PM

Also, don’t forget that there is a wing in the RNC which would dearly love her head on the chopping block to promote its own centrist policies. I am sure that there would be any no. of RNC practitioners who would sabotage her to promote their own candidates/interests.

promachus on December 5, 2008 at 11:50 PM

That Sarah was instrumental in producing the Chambliss landslide was a wake-up call for the MSM; they gave SP a pass for a month, but the relentless pursuit to destroy will now begin anew. Fortunately, she is more prepared for the media onslaught-round 2. And so are we!

technopeasant on December 6, 2008 at 12:04 AM

Jim62sch on December 5, 2008 at 11:43 PM

I’ve wondered about that myself. I can buy that Palin might have asked for some (or even most) of the things in the latest disclosure just because some of the stores seem more up her alley (Politico’s article on it names Target, Dicks Sporting Goods, and Ann Taylor as being among them). I have a harder time buying the meme that she had a meaningful role in the original $150K of purchases. ramrocks talked last night about how stylists work, and Rick Davis has said that they failed to give the stylist any real parameters.

meltenn on December 6, 2008 at 12:12 AM

lowandslow on December 5, 2008 at 11:36 PM

The Denali pipeline proposal is the one that’s dead in the water. In the end the state holds all the cards, not the big producers. Much of the gas is located on State land that has the State has leased to the producers. Under their lease contracts with the State, those producers have a contractual duty to commit gas to a pipeline where it is economic to do so. And it is economic! They either use it or lose it. They’ll be bidding in the TC open season.

The biggest challenge for the TC pipeline is getting it through all the territorial wrangles in Canada. I’m confident it’ll get done.

ramrocks on December 6, 2008 at 12:25 AM

I don’t believe it for a minute. It’s the MSM already trying to choose the Republican candidate they can beat. Huck is already a parody of himself with his TV show and his sour grapes over Palin’s popularity.

rivlax on December 6, 2008 at 12:27 AM

I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that McCain staffers were embezzling stuff and charging it off to “Palin expenses”.

Jim62sch on December 5, 2008 at 11:43 PM

I can buy that she asked for some (or even most) of the things on the latest disclosure just because of some of the stores (Target, The Limited, Dicks Sporting Goods, and similar stores are among them). I have more trouble buying that she had a meaningful role in the first $150K. ramrocks talked last night about how stylists work, and Rick Davis said that they didn’t give the stylist any real parameters. And if you go back and look at pictures from the trail it starts to really look weird on where all that money went because she wore some things several times, and it’s obvious that she wore some of her own clothes as well. The whole thing’s pretty crazy. I never understood why they didn’t just ask Cindy McCain to pay for it and make it a personal gift to Palin. I feel sure that she could have afforded it.

meltenn on December 6, 2008 at 12:30 AM

It seems that many people on the left have low self-esteem and no confidence and as a result they resort to insulting the intelligence of someone more successful and smarter as a way to compensate for their own inability to achieve anything.

V15J on December 5, 2008 at 11:40 PM

Yeah, they know their ideas by themselves won’t sell, for the most part. They have to be helped along by trying to destroy or at least denigrate the opposition. It’s insecurity in the viability of their own position. I’m not that old, but I’ve seen it often enough.

ddrintn on December 6, 2008 at 12:31 AM

This scientific measurement is based on the Democratic Threat Scale: a prospective candidate’s intelligence is expressed as an inverse measurement of how likely they are to kick Democrat ass. The higher that likelihood, the lower the (totally hypothetical) IQ.

ddrintn on December 5, 2008 at 11:07 PM

Exactly.

As far as this poll is concerned: The MSM will be pushing Huckabee in 2012, hoping that he’ll split up the social con vote enough to keep Palin from the nomination.

Mr. Wednesday Night on December 6, 2008 at 12:32 AM

Jim62sch on December 5, 2008 at 11:43 PM

I never understood why they ran all this through the RNC anyway. Why didn’t they just ask Cindy McCain to help out (at least on the clothes purchases if not on the hair and makeup people). I feel sure that she could have afforded it, and she’s a good businesswoman. She would have kept a close eye on what the stylist was spending and where the money was going. It’s obvious that the campaign didn’t. In fact Rick Davis said that they didn’t give the stylist any real parameters.

meltenn on December 6, 2008 at 12:34 AM

I still blame Mike Duncan, the head of the RNC, for not coming out and defending Sarah. He must be defeated!

technopeasant on December 6, 2008 at 12:43 AM

Viva! Revolution!!!!!

apacalyps on December 6, 2008 at 12:52 AM

“Operation apacalyps” Full Steam Ahead!

apacalyps on December 6, 2008 at 12:53 AM

Huckabee is so bent out of shape about losing and the rise of Sarah Palin he’s already packed on 45 lbs since the primaries.

nitzsche on December 6, 2008 at 12:54 AM

No Retreat, No Surrender

apacalyps on December 6, 2008 at 12:54 AM

I still blame Mike Duncan, the head of the RNC, for not coming out and defending Sarah. He must be defeated!

technopeasant on December 6, 2008 at 12:43 AM

Who is this “Mike Duncan” you speak of?

Jim62sch on December 6, 2008 at 12:54 AM

Can I get an AMEN? [congregation shouts "AMEN!"] Can I get an AMEN? [congregation shouts "AMEN!" again]

apacalyps on December 6, 2008 at 12:55 AM

Jin62sch: the current head of the Republican National Committee who knew about the expenditures put forward to wardrobe Sarah and has remained silent up to now and has not come forward to explain that Sarah had nothing to do with the authorization of the expenditures and that the MSM claims regarding Sarah are bogus. I consider him a scumbag. He is running for re-election for the head of the RNC. He must be defeated.

technopeasant on December 6, 2008 at 12:59 AM

A little more from the Times. To me it sounds like the writers are trying to pin all it on Palin, but to me it comes off more like it was mostly the campaign’s fault.
For example:

A former McCain campaign official, speaking on condition of anonymity to give a candid account of private matters in the campaign, said that after Ms. Palin expressed interest in help from a stylist, she was referred to Ms. Kline by Nicolle Wallace, a senior communications aide for the campaign. Ms. Wallace did not return a call seeking comment.

She was ‘referred to Ms. Kline’? This sounds like we’re supposed to believe that Palin called her up and hired her herself. I have trouble buying that.

And:

Joy Leedham, the owner of Home Optics, said Ms. Palin’s campaign aides bought an extra set of eyeglasses for her with antireflective coating on the lenses that her old glasses did not have, just before the vice-presidential debate on Oct. 2. Ms. Leedham said Ms. Palin still had the glasses.

Now how does she know that? Maybe she does still have them, but how does that lady know (and if she does it is possible that she paid the RNC for them)? And the fact that the glasses were bought in order to get the anti-reflective coating says to me that that was a campaign decision and not a Palin one.

Now I can buy that Palin may have requested some (or even all) of the things from this latest disclosure. Things come up on the trail, and these stores seem more up her alley. But I have much more trouble believing that she was entirely to blame for the first $150K. It’s hard for me to believe that she had a meaningful role in that beyond trying on the clothes that they brought her. I could be totally wrong of course, I often am.

meltenn on December 6, 2008 at 1:02 AM

The Denali pipeline proposal is the one that’s dead in the water. In the end the state holds all the cards, not the big producers. Much of the gas is located on State land that has the State has leased to the producers. Under their lease contracts with the State, those producers have a contractual duty to commit gas to a pipeline where it is economic to do so. And it is economic! They either use it or lose it. They’ll be bidding in the TC open season.

The biggest challenge for the TC pipeline is getting it through all the territorial wrangles in Canada. I’m confident it’ll get done.

ramrocks on December 6, 2008 at 12:25 AM

The State doesn’t hold any cards, they played them all. Regardless of what you may believe the state can’t hold a gun to the producers head and force them to make commitments they can’t keep and are fiscally impossible. The producers don’t work for the State, they work for their owners and shareholders. Besides that, FERC won’t allow it and secondly it will be impossible for TransCanada to get the enormous financial investments they’ll need to proceed under those conditions. It won’t happen, the only and I mean only way any pipeline would have a chance is for the Palin administration to quite impeding the producers and work with them to find a viable solution. Something she doesn’t feel is politically advantageous to her right now. All this at Alaska and the U.S.’s expense. And if you think pulling the leases from the producers will gain anything you’re dreaming, who’s going to want to take them or could afford to take them after the State did that?

lowandslow on December 6, 2008 at 1:14 AM

meltenn on December 6, 2008 at 1:02 AM

This whole thing is shameful nonsense. These sorts of expenditures are routine for campaigns. The eye glasses were an excellent purchase. Can you image if she went through the debate with a glare reflecting off her eye glasses? BTW, what the hell is the RNC going to do with her prescription eye glasses? Auction them?

The idea that she asked for the stylist sounds suspicious. In an earlier story, a campaign aide who went on the record said that Palin was instructed to hire a stylist and dresser and so Nicole Wallace hired them.

The fact that the NY Times is devoting even one minute more to this stuff is proof of media bias. If they were to comb through the expenses of the other campaign they would find thousands of such minor items. Next they’re going to do an investigation of how what food she order at her hotel stops! And did she get the room with two king size beds or one? And did she use the mini bar or order movies? I mean, when does this crap stop?

ramrocks on December 6, 2008 at 1:17 AM

lowandslow on December 6, 2008 at 1:14 AM

Okay, chicken little, we’ll see who’s right. Till then, try not to be too gleeful in preaching your tales of pipeline woe.

There’s no reason why these companies wouldn’t bid on the TC Alaska’s open season. They’re just playing bs games to get a better deal from the state. At the end of the day, they’ll come around. What’s the alternative? The Denali pipeline is a joke.

BTW, you wouldn’t happen to work for the oil companies, would you?

ramrocks on December 6, 2008 at 1:26 AM

BTW, what the hell is the RNC going to do with her prescription eye glasses? Auction them?
ramrocks on December 6, 2008 at 1:17 AM

Good question. The most logical thing would be for her to buy them from the RNC, but that would pretty much the first logical thing that’s happened lately.

I mean, when does this crap stop?

Probably never. I think there really is Palin Derangement Syndrome (PDS). The media couldn’t get away with the kind of thing that they do to her with any other politician that I can think of. With her, it’s considered acceptable to report first and ask questions later, to criticize her parenting and her children, and to quote only her critics. There are legitimate criticisms that can be made, and legitimate questions that should be asked of her and of her record. But all that seems to get lost in the PDS.

meltenn on December 6, 2008 at 1:30 AM

austinnelly on December 5, 2008 at 8:45 PM

That’s it. I’m moving to Texas. I’ve spent over a decade in NY. They’re getting bombed again, and it will be worse than 3000 this time; I was there for 911; to hell with that. They brought it on themselves this time by playing Vichy, France to Obama’s Reich. Sick of the liberals; there are no more fun people in NYC anymore; the culture is overrated. I’m moving with my husband and children to Marfa, Texas. There is a Donald Judd Museum there. We’ll fight the border war and get drunk on the weekends.

chunderroad on December 6, 2008 at 1:33 AM

Probably never. I think there really is Palin Derangement Syndrome (PDS). The media couldn’t get away with the kind of thing that they do to her with any other politician that I can think of. With her, it’s considered acceptable to report first and ask questions later, to criticize her parenting and her children, and to quote only her critics. There are legitimate criticisms that can be made, and legitimate questions that should be asked of her and of her record. But all that seems to get lost in the PDS.

meltenn on December 6, 2008 at 1:30 AM

This has got to backfire on them eventually. It kind of reminds me of the nasty stories they used to do on Nancy Reagan in the 1980s when they lied about her spending money on the White House china when in fact it was all donated.

And donated is the key word. We’re talking about RNC donated money. It’s not as if Palin was bilking the tax payer for this!!

I swear the next story will be complaining about how much the Secret Service security detail for the Palins cost! And they’ll forget to mention that all the candidates had a security detail…

ramrocks on December 6, 2008 at 1:35 AM

We’ll fight the border war and get drunk on the weekends.

chunderroad on December 6, 2008 at 1:33 AM

LOL!! I sometimes think it might be nice to live in a conservative stronghold too. But I love California warts and all.

ramrocks on December 6, 2008 at 1:36 AM

BTW, what the hell is the RNC going to do with her prescription eye glasses? Auction them?
ramrocks on December 6, 2008 at 1:17 AM

Good question. The most logical thing would be for her to buy them from the RNC, but that would pretty much the first logical thing that’s happened lately.

meltenn on December 6, 2008 at 1:30 AM

Meanwhile, details on the more than $600 million raised by Team Obama are utterly irrelevant.

ddrintn on December 6, 2008 at 1:38 AM

chunderroad on December 6, 2008 at 1:33 AM

If you prefer mountains we’ve got those down here in Tennessee. No border wars though, and the Friday night football’s not as good. The college football used to be great, but it’s been a little down lately. We’re pretty chill though, and if you like Frist I’m pretty sure he’s going to be our next governor.

meltenn on December 6, 2008 at 1:38 AM

Meanwhile, details on the more than $600 million raised by Team Obama are utterly irrelevant.

ddrintn on December 6, 2008 at 1:38 AM

Why would anyone want to know if The One’s campaign accepted donations it shouldn’t have due to their negligence? That would mess with the narrative. We can’t have that.

I’m going to call it a night, gotta work in a few hours.

meltenn on December 6, 2008 at 1:52 AM

How about Obama not being eligible to be President. Isn’t that a bigger story than which glasses Sarah wears?

technopeasant on December 6, 2008 at 1:55 AM

Make it stop already…..!!!! It’s stupid petty stuff and it’s bordering on sexism….

An Era of Hate on December 6, 2008 at 2:07 AM

Make it stop already…..!!!! It’s stupid petty stuff and it’s bordering on sexism….

An Era of Hate on December 6, 2008 at 2:07 AM

Bordering on sexism? No, it’s already invaded and is now occupying the territory!

ramrocks on December 6, 2008 at 2:12 AM

Expect it to be a millions times worse in the next 4 years. We must be prepared for the media onslaught. Last time we weren’t. This time we will be,

technopeasant on December 6, 2008 at 2:15 AM

Expect it to be a millions times worse in the next 4 years. We must be prepared for the media onslaught. Last time we weren’t. This time we will be,

technopeasant on December 6, 2008 at 2:15 AM

Right on! Forth, Palinistas!

ramrocks on December 6, 2008 at 2:22 AM

Reports like these depress me because it unfairly gives her bad PR….

An Era of Hate on December 6, 2008 at 2:23 AM

meltenn on December 6, 2008 at 1:30 AM

The glasses she’s wearing here, here, and here appear to have a glare.

ramrocks on December 6, 2008 at 2:30 AM

CNN Republicans are not like real live Republicans.

Not to worry.

Elizabetty on December 6, 2008 at 2:41 AM

An Era of Hate 2:23 AM: chin up, my friend; life is not fair. We have 2-3 years to prepare ourselves to defend Sarah to the world through these threads. Accept the inevitable if Sarah decides to run: it will get nasty, nasty, nasty- not just from the MSM but by fellow Republicans, elite pundits and Democrats as well. But we have been given to us a fantastic opportunity by John McCain to fight to take back America in 2010 and 2012; that opportunity is personified in Sarah Palin. For Palin supporters we must all resolve to fight for her with all we have and to defend her to the death. With that passion and commitment we will attract more like-minded women and men; we will become first a 100,000 person army, then half a million, soon after 1million and the movement will grow exponentially from there. Like a prisoner who counts down his days in jail we will count down the days when we can retake America from the liberals and the socialists in 2010 and then in 2012.

technopeasant on December 6, 2008 at 2:51 AM

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