That’s how the UAW thrives: fear and animosity.

And the UAW forward a narrative like they are part of the landscape and cannot be changed or marginalized.

I had friends who used to brag about how they would do nothing all day. They thought it was funny right up to the day they were terminated.

Now I work as a professional in what’s left of a union plant not related to the auto industry. The union labor I encountered on a daily basis are (were?) the most pathetic excuses for workers I’ve ever seen in my life.

Their sob stories are falling on deaf ears.

Good riddance to the unions.

http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189

These are American workers you people are talking about–not parasites.

…and these particular workers are begging the government to make taxpayers bail out their jobs. That makes them human parasites.

The management at GM has been over a barrel for decades by both US Government policy and unions…the only two aspects of this discussion some of you seem to (kind-of) understand.

Yeah, right… and these American workers stood opposed to their unions putting GM over a barrel… Isn’t that right, Youngs86? The management! The poor management! See how they suffered! Dang unions! By god, you do write such nonsense, Youngs98.

The Unions need to go away yes, but the entire US auto industry? You better sit back and look at the big picture of what that would mean for our country. Right or wrong, if they do not get the money they need to stay in business right now, the results will be disastrous.

Then clearly, in your mind, allowing the consumer to decide the fate of the Detroit auto industry would yield disastrous results. The U.S is ~already~ heading towards economic disaster ~because~ of democrats and soft cock conservatives pumping trillions of monopoly money dollars into the loan market, and bailing out large failing businesses is going to somehow reduce that probability…. Hmmm… I wonder how that works? Perhaps I need a soft cock conservative to explain it to me.

BUT, for every overpaid union worker, there are dozens of others who worked for 5 to 10 years that it takes to take a vehicle from the drawing board to production. None of them are union and they are definitely not parasites.

I sure do empathize with the engineers and other professionals at the automakers who are facing tough times. I even have sympathy for the folks at the major newspapers who are getting laid off, despite how much I loathe the MSM. I think a lot of us from various employment sectors are already experiencing the negative effects of the economic problems which I think are being exacerbated by the Lightworker’s victory. But the point of this thread is the UAW “concessions” — a lot of us are pretty unimpressed by the supposed concessions and skeptical of another bailout.

At times like these all you can hope is that being a skilled, educated professional counts for something and that the engineers and other non-union workers will be able to find good jobs elsewhere.

The bottom line is this: these companies are begging for this bailout money so that they can go on operating in exactly the same manner that they have for decades…give them the money and that’s exactly what they’re going to do. And when they continue doing exactly the same thing they’ve been doing, guess what?…in a few years, they’re going to end up in exactly the same place: begging for another handout from US taxpayers.

Does it suck for auto workers…engineers…suppliers…etc.? Of course. Doesn’t change one bit of one thing. Continuing down this path amounts to nothing more than a nationalized car industry.

No thanks.

And you can stop with the doom-n-gloom about the collapse of America if these companies go under. Why? Because they’re not going to go under. These are perfectly viable businesses…and the market knows as much. They’re simply being squeezed to death by unsustainable union pressures. When those pressures are removed – and eventually, one way or the other, they will be – the American auto industry will see a new dawn.

rvastar on December 4, 2008 at 5:06 PM

But the point that you’re not getting is that – ultimately -supply and demand will be the forces behind GM ceasing to make cars.

Wrong. GM was well on its way to a nice recovery last year and the stock price (then increasing) proved that. Then we had the credit “crisis” compounded with high fuel prices which has sunk EVERY automakers bottom line. What is killing our guys is the fact that they’ve relied on large, high profit margin vehicles while gas was cheap. Trucks. Toyotas heavy HEAVY investment in trucks proves that…although they too have just idled their shiny new Texas truck plant.

This isn’t rocket science: American consumers have a choice between reliable foreign-made cars and sh-tty American-made cars, all for basically the same price. More and more, consumers are choosing the reliable foreign-made cars.

You have no idea what you’re talking about here. When was the last time you were even in an American made car? I take that back if you have and it was a Dodge Avenger.

What’s the answer? Trim down those excessive wages and benefits to levels that the market dictates…not unions, not Democrats…which will then free up money for….

That’s true–good work. Some nice conservative principles will always bring you back in-line, even when your understanding of an industry is lacking.

Companies can move with their feet also. I supect the proximity to the iron mines of the Great Lakes region, has lost its glamour as a reason of where to locate an auto plant.

Looking forward to it.

These are American workers you people are talking about–not parasites.

These are workers who get paid more than 3/4 times than any other, for same effort, and then are forced to get paid the same retirement, for a longer period than they were employed, because they retire early, with almost 100% of base pay, per contract. It needs to stop. Either you believe in Capitalism, or socialism is your friend and we all go under, together.

Synergy is when we all go under together.

That assumes that I absolutely need a new car now and con not keep my current car running until the SD curve evens back up in my favor. So some Americans will be forced to not buy a new car every three years. That may solve the credit problem also. It is a win win. A new car(and new house) is not a need right now comodity, which a lot of Americans have forgot. That is one of the reasons we are in the economic crisis we are in now.

rvastar on December 4, 2008 at 5:06 PM

It is not even reliable foreign made cars. It is reliable non-union US made cars produced for an overseas HQ’d multinational company. The question is what happened to American pride in craftmanship in the Union shops. And don’t even get me started on the closed shop, where is my feedom to not be represented by the union.

“These are American workers you people are talking about–not parasites.”

Yes….American workers who would fight to be first on the picket line if Big 3 management didn’t agree to the worker-backed UAW compensation packages that put them where they are today.

Oh no you won’t. Not for a few years anyway.

Then I’ll buy Japanese! Or I simply won’t buy at all.

But sometimes you have to factor in the human side of things. We tend to look at the unions as an “It” instead of being made up of living , breathing human being’s. Would I take a large paying , 8hr a day job, with tons of goodies, YOU Bet !!! Would I ever join a union on my free will? NOT on your life.
The union leaders have done alot of really bad things in there days and there is no excuse for a lot of what THEY have did.
Some would say ” the chickens are coming home to roost”

Out of the 250 million cars on US roads today, 66 million are GM brands–44 million more than Toyota.

But this is meaningless. The real point is the trend. How many of those GM cars are 10+ years old? 20+ years? And what are the same numbers for Toyota?

If GM ceases to make cars, supply and demand dictates that the price of the remaining vehicles will skyrocket, will sell out, and the remaining automakers will take years to ramp up to meet the hole left by GM–let alone Ford and Crysler.

But the point that you’re not getting is that – ultimately – supply and demand will be the forces behind GM ceasing to make cars. It’s not the responsibility of the American taxpayer to subsidize GM/UAWs refusal to acquiesce to the realities of the laws of economics.

This isn’t rocket science: American consumers have a choice between reliable foreign-made cars and sh-tty American-made cars, all for basically the same price. More and more, consumers are choosing the reliable foreign-made cars. Period. Why can’t US cars compete in quality? Because in order for US automakers to pay the ridiculously exorbitant wages and benefits of their unskilled workers, they have to skimp on quality. What’s the answer? Trim down those excessive wages and benefits to levels that the market dictates…not unions, not Democrats…which will then free up money for a) improving the quality of US cars while b) maintaining a competitive price.

If they do those things, they will succeed. If they don’t, they will fail. And no amount of double-talk, “turnaround” plans, bailouts, or whining is going to change that.

Maybe there is some hope for the country after all.

Now that the UAW has grown a brain, what about the Media, Educators, Politicians and Trial Lawyers?

Is it possible, they could grow brains as well?

UAW Leader: “Bankruptcy and restructuring plan is not an acceptable plan at this time”—-”studies show that the customers will not buy cars from a company in bankruptcy”

But we’re supposed to believe that throngs of people WILL buy cars from companies within days (if you believe them) of complete financial collapse without a taxpayer funded bail-out?
What a load! They (and it looks like the UAW, now) will say anything for a few billion $.
I don’t blame the big 3 or the UAW. I blame congress and the Prez for even making this an option! Hell, I’d do or say any damn thing it took if I thought someone might reward me with 25 Billion dollars!