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The sadly obligatory SCOTUS birth-certificate post

posted at 10:20 am on December 4, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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The Chicago Tribune briefly revives the Obama-birth-certificate kerfuffle in an update today, if only to throw more cold water on it.  Tomorrow, the Supreme Court confabs over whether to grant a review to Leo Donofrio’s lawsuit after having it rejected in district and appellate courts:

The U.S. Supreme Court will consider Friday whether to take up a lawsuit challenging President-elect Barack Obama’s U.S. citizenship, a continuation of a New Jersey case embraced by some opponents of Obama’s election.

The meeting of justices will coincide with a vigil by the filer’s supporters in Washington on the steps of the nation’s highest court.

The suit originally sought to stay the election, and was filed on behalf of Leo Donofrio against New Jersey Secretary of State Nina Mitchell Wells. …

The Obama campaign has maintained that he was born in Hawaii, has an authentic birth certificate, and is a “natural-born” U.S. citizen. Hawaiian officials agree.

The latest buzz surrounds the decision by Clarence Thomas to circulate the appeal petition to the entire court after David Souter rejected it immediately.  That really doesn’t mean much, as the Tribune explains.  Of the 842 petitions circulated in that manner, only 60 got a spot on the court calendar, and not all of those succeeded.  Thomas may have been interested in the technical aspects of the suit rather than the merits, or perhaps it was a slow week.

It does, however, make it news, no matter how much some of us wish it would go away.  The state of Hawaii has repeatedly insisted that their records show Obama was born in Hawaii, as the Certificate of Live Birth states.  The COLB would get any Hawaii native an American passport with no questions asked, even without the official endorsement of the Republican governor and her Department of Health.  There is even a contemporaneous birth announcement in a local paper confirming it.

I’m sure the comments section will fill with various conspiracy theories over Indonesian school records, Kenyan births, and so on.  None of it — absolutely none — has any real, solid evidence showing that Obama was born anywhere else than Hawaii apart from sheer speculation and hearsay, and even less evidence that Obama’s stepfather renounced Obama’s birthright citizenship, which he didn’t have the power to do anyway.  It’s a conspiracy theory spun by conspiracy theorists (Philip Berg is a 9/11 truther) who use their normal thresholds of evidence for this meme.

Unfortunately, the Supreme Court can’t kill the conspiracy theories.  It can only kill the lawsuits, which is what they will almost certainly do tomorrow when they meet.

Update: From October 31:

The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed on Friday what Barack Obama has been saying all along: the presidential candidate was born in Honolulu.

“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate,” said Chiyome Fukino. “State law prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.”

Citing her statutory authority to oversee and maintain Hawaii’s vital records, Fukino said she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

“No state official, including Gov. Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawaii,” Fukino added.

Update II: From the comments, a link to Donofrio’s explanation:

“Don’t be distracted by the birth certificate and Indonesia issues. They are irrelevant to Senator Obama’s ineligibility to be President. Since Barack Obama’s father was a Citizen of Kenya and therefore subject to the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom at the time of Senator Obama’s birth, then Senator Obama was a British Citizen “at birth”, just like the Framers of the Constitution, and therefore, even if he were to produce an original birth certificate proving he were born on US soil, he still wouldn’t be eligible to be President.

The Framers of the Constitution, at the time of their birth, were also British Citizens and that’s why the Framers declared that, while they were Citizens of the United States, they themselves were not “natural born Citizens”.

Hence their inclusion of the grandfather clause in Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution: No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution shall be eligible to the Office of President; That’s it right there. (Emphasis added.)

If so, this is an even dumber argument than first thought.  The children of immigrants born in this country are ineligible to be President?  Since when does “natural born” refer to the parents of citizens?  Natural born means the person at question was born in US territory, and it always has.  Immigration-enforcement activists have been trying to change that definition to eliminate the “anchor babies” issue.

Also, adoption only changes the parentage on the birth certificate, not the place, date, or time of birth.  I’ve done an adoption myself and can personally attest to that fact.  If Obama had been adopted by Mr. Soetero, Hawaii would only have changed the father’s name on the record — and since Barack Obama Sr has been listed on the birth certificate, it appears that Mr. Soetero didn’t adopt Obama anyway.

Update III: As a rebuttal to Update 1, this from the comments:

The paper lied on purpose. The HI Dept of health went of its way to say everything but that. They do have his original birth certificate, but from where?

The State of Hawaii only keeps birth certificates from births in Hawaii.  The State of California only keeps birth certificates from births in California, Minnesota only keeps those from births in Minnesota, and so on. They don’t store information on births outside of their state.  Why would they bother to do that?  Use some common sense.

Update IV: The Honolulu Advertiser reported on the Dept. of Health statement on November 1 in a little more detail:

State Health Department employees continue to be barraged by requests from people demanding to see Barack Obama’s birth certificate, including some who have called the department’s registrar of vital statistics at home — in the middle of the night.

“This has gotten ridiculous,” state health director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said yesterday. “There are plenty of other, important things to focus on, like the economy, taxes, energy.”

So, in what likely will be a vain attempt to halt the inquiries, Fukino yesterday issued a statement saying that she and the registrar of vital statistics personally inspected Obama’s birth certificate and found it to be valid.

Will this be enough to quiet the doubters?

“I hope so,” Fukino said. “We need to get some work done.”

Fukino issued her statement to try to stomp out persistent rumors that Obama was not born in Honolulu — and is therefore not a U.S. citizen and thus ineligible to run for president.

Fukino, however, repeated the Health Department’s position that state law prohibits her or any other officials from actually releasing the birth certificate, which Obama’s campaign says shows he was born in Honolulu on Aug. 4, 1961.

“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate,” Fukino said in the statement. “State law (Hawai’i Revised Statutes ¤338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record. … No state official, including Gov. Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai’i.”

I guess they’ll have to wait a little longer to get any work done.


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Is that Act an American law? And if so, can you (or AS) quote the line which states that this law applied to children born in the US? (If it’s not an American law, then it’s irrelevant, assuming that O was born in Hawaii.)

baldilocks on December 4, 2008 at 10:44 PM

That law applied to Obama just as American law applies to children of Americans born overseas. Your assertion that it is irrelevant if it is not an American law is legally incorrect. Remember, Obama’s website is where that information came from in the first place. He’s not disputing he possessed dual-citizenship.

flyfisher on December 4, 2008 at 10:57 PM

No, RBMN, if you look carefully at what she said, she was ver careful never to say that Obama was born in Hawaii. She only said that there is a long-form birth certificate on file in Hawaii. She doesn’t say where Obama was born. That certificate could say he was born in Mombasa, Kenya.

justincase on December 4, 2008 at 10:58 PM

Especially if he was adopted by Lolo Soetero in Hawaii before the family moved to Indonesia, RBMN. If I understand it correctly.

justincase on December 4, 2008 at 11:00 PM

This is an interesting read:

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/constitution/pdf/con031.pdf

upinak on December 4, 2008 at 11:01 PM

justincase on December 4, 2008 at 10:58 PM

I think she was well aware of the main issue in question when she answered the question. And, as Ed said, Hawaii doesn’t maintain Kenyan birth records.

RBMN on December 4, 2008 at 11:02 PM

690 comments must be some kind of record. Guess I know what I’ll be writing about tomorrow. The death of the conservative wing of the Republican party and the rebirth of the John Birch Society.

Unequal Time

bryanmyrick on December 4, 2008 at 11:05 PM

Hawaii has the CertificaTION of Live Birth for people who register their foreign births. They have a Hawaii CertificaTION of Live Birth – like what Obama says he posted.

But with that they should have a long-form vault CertifiCATE of Live Birth, which contains the information of where they were born – which in the instance of a registered foreign birth would be a foreign location.

This gal never said that the Certificate of Live Birth showed a Hawaii birth. By law she COULD NOT say what was on that certificate – which is what she just got done saying: that she couldn’t say what was on there. Funny that the media had her saying she couldn’t legally say what was on there… and then said she DID say what was on there. Made no sense at all.

justincase on December 4, 2008 at 11:07 PM

I also believe that if Obama was adopted by Soetero in Hawaii, the birth records revealing his blood father (original birth certificate) would be sealed. Those birth records could be from Kenya or anywhere, and would be replaced by records from Hawaii. At least that’s how I understand it, from what adopted people have told me. Somebody correct me if I’m mistaken on that.

For Hawaii’s records to be SEALED -not just unavailable for public viewing – I wonder if there had to have been an adoption.

Can anybody help me out on this?

justincase on December 4, 2008 at 11:10 PM

Bryamyrick, is it only John Birch people who care to have our Constitution followed?

Do you think the NJ Sec of State should follow the law which requires her to certify the eligibility of any candidate whose name is put on the ballot? If not, why not? If not, then why do we even have laws and why do we call ourselves a society based on law?

Please don’t poo-pooh this. This is as serious a question as you will ever be asked.

justincase on December 4, 2008 at 11:12 PM

Just produce the REAL certificate, Obama. Not a copy.

SouthernGent on December 4, 2008 at 11:15 PM

The glaring fact is America still doesn’t know who B> Hussein Obama is as he continues to hide documents that would give us an insite to the real man.

Conspiracy theories? Heck, do you know who BHO is yet? I thought not!

DannoJyd on December 4, 2008 at 11:15 PM

690 comments must be some kind of record. Guess I know what I’ll be writing about tomorrow. The death of the conservative wing of the Republican party and the rebirth of the John Birch Society.

Unequal Time

bryanmyrick on December 4, 2008 at 11:05 PM

I believe the birth certificate question is interesting, but likely a big waste of time. But by golly I support those fighting to see it because they believe that is the route to ensure we uphold the constitution. They are not John Birchers and they are not crazy. We know virtually nothing about Obama with certainty. I believe the natural born citizen route is the legal fight we should be having. Regardless, we damn sure better be about enforcing the constitution for the day we no longer enforce it is the day we no longer exist as a nation. Your comment wasn’t nearly as cute as you believe it was. My guess is you are in college or perhaps you’re a recent graduate. You have that young man’s “I’ll show my genius through my enlightened cynicism” thing down.

flyfisher on December 4, 2008 at 11:20 PM

That law applied to Obama just as American law applies to children of Americans born overseas. Your assertion that it is irrelevant if it is not an American law is legally incorrect.

I’m not trying to be difficult but can you give me more than just your word? If you have already in this thread then a point in the right place is fine.

Remember, Obama’s website is where that information came from in the first place. He’s not disputing he possessed dual-citizenship.

flyfisher on December 4, 2008 at 10:57 PM

That doesn’t make it true; he’s could be just playing to the “world citizen” crowd. It’s also odd that you’re going to take his word for anything, even something that can be used against him. If he told me the time of day, I’d get a second opinion.

baldilocks on December 4, 2008 at 11:20 PM

Hawaii FOI PDF file see p.15 (or Adobe p19) regarding information on deceased people.

The example FOI form is included in the PDF.

Looks like anyone can send a request. Have at it HA fans.

faraway on December 4, 2008 at 11:22 PM

I believe your questions is what Donofrio is attempting the court to answer. His own reading of the law is that it does negatively impact Obama’s constitutional eligibility.

marti124 on December 4, 2008 at 10:55 PM

Got it. Thanks.

baldilocks on December 4, 2008 at 11:23 PM

I just got back in after being out all day. The more I read the more I’m convinced that there is some major problem with obama’s credentials. You don’t spend over 3/4 of a million dollars hiding something that doesn’t matter.

Flyfisher has really helped me understand this a bit more..

thanks

bullseye on December 4, 2008 at 11:27 PM

baldilocks on December 4, 2008 at 11:20 PM

I don’t know of an efficient way to prove the laws of a foreign country apply to the children of their citizens just as the laws of this country apply to the children of Americans who happen to be born overseas. I’m a lawyer and just know it to be true.

You are right that Obama stating something doesn’t make it true, but he would have a hard time arguing that he didn’t have legal rights that flowed to him through his father at birth. Unless his father was not the man he has always claimed he was, how can that be?

flyfisher on December 4, 2008 at 11:28 PM

bryanmyrick,

Sorry for my last comment. I just get tired of these cutesy comments from people who have not taken the time to study the legal issues and the facts. I blasted you more than I should have. I apologize.

flyfisher on December 4, 2008 at 11:30 PM

bullseye on December 4, 2008 at 11:27 PM

Thanks for taking notice. This has been a frustrating thread to comment in.

flyfisher on December 4, 2008 at 11:31 PM

I enjoy a good “Capricorn One” type movie too, but that’s the category I put this issue in. Overactive imagination meets Hawaii privacy law, and Hawaii privacy law wins. I assume that the Supreme Court will agree with that. The best case for contesting it would probably be if John McCain asked for the original birth document, because at least he can demonstrate some direct harm if it’s not adequate to prove that Obama is American-born, but short of that, I don’t see the Supreme Court overruling Hawaii on this.

RBMN on December 4, 2008 at 11:32 PM

baldilocks on December 4, 2008 at 11:20 PM

I’ll try to find the dang link again… but its British law from the time Barry was born… and basicly states that if your Father is a British citizen, no matter where you are born, you are a british citizen.

Then there are two Brit court cases having to do with Colonys being given their freedom… and the effects on the offspring of those Ex Colonys…

I’ll see if I can find it again, its been a couple of months, but it boiled down to the reason we fought the War of 1812… under Brit law, once a brit citizen, you are always a Brit citizen… unless you legaly go to them to give it up.

Romeo13 on December 4, 2008 at 11:33 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Overseas_Territories_citizen

BOTC by descent
A person born outside the Overseas Territories on or after 1 January 1983 will automatically acquire BOTC by descent if either parent is a BOTC otherwise than by descent at the time of the birth.

Its Wiki… and current law… but from what I read its the same as before…

only one parent needs to be a BOTC otherwise than by descent – either the father or the mother.

Romeo13 on December 4, 2008 at 11:37 PM

The link I was thinking about in regards to eager lawyers awaiting any defendants charged with violating a law that Obama signs after becoming President is here: http://www.thebulletin.us/site/news.cfm?newsid=20210273

Obama Fomenting A Constitutional Crisis: Constitutional Lawyer Discusses Ramifications Of Controversy
By John P. Connolly, The Bulletin
12/01/2008

marti124 on December 4, 2008 at 11:38 PM

The constitutional lawyer interviewed in the Philadelphia Bulletin has a longer article on the Obama BC issue here:

http://www.newswithviews.com/Vieira/edwin84.htm

OBAMA MUST STAND UP NOW OR STEP DOWN

By Dr. Edwin Vieira, Jr., Ph.D., J.D.
October 29, 2008

marti124 on December 4, 2008 at 11:42 PM

http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/aboutcitizenship/

Heres somthing from the Brit Gov itself…

Basicly, if one of your parents is a brit citizen, you are a brit citizen, but if you are born outside of British territory you don’t pass that citizenship to YOUR children..

At least thats the way it seems to read…

As Obama senior was a brit cit when Barry was born… by that very fact, the Brits consider him a citizen of Great Britain… and thus, a dual citizen.

Romeo13 on December 4, 2008 at 11:42 PM

I have also done some reading on the British nationality law

The British Nationality Act 1948 established the status of Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (CUKC), the national citizenship of the United Kingdom and those places that were still British colonies on 1 January 1949, when the 1948 Act came into force. However, until the early 1960s there was little difference, if any, in United Kingdom law between the rights of CUKCs and other British subjects, all of whom had the right at any time to enter and live in the United Kingdom.

British Citizenship can be acquired in the following ways:

1. lex soli: By birth in the United Kingdom to a parent who is a British citizen at the time of the birth, or to a parent who is settled in the United Kingdom
2. lex sanguinis: By descent if one of the parents is a British citizen otherwise than by descent

I am no expert, but is Obama also a “British citizen by descent”?

As far as I can tell, there is no expiration or registration requirements.

There could be an expiration on his “kenyan citizenship” as he states on his website.

faraway on December 4, 2008 at 11:44 PM

You are right that Obama stating something doesn’t make it true, but he would have a hard time arguing that he didn’t have legal rights that flowed to him through his father at birth. Unless his father was not the man he has always claimed he was, how can that be?

flyfisher on December 4, 2008 at 11:28 PM

Fair enough.Basicly, if one of your parents is a brit citizen, you are a brit citizen, but if you are born outside of British territory you don’t pass that citizenship to YOUR children..

At least thats the way it seems to read…

As Obama senior was a brit cit when Barry was born… by that very fact, the Brits consider him a citizen of Great Britain… and thus, a dual citizen.

Romeo13 on December 4, 2008 at 11:42 PM

baldilocks on December 4, 2008 at 11:45 PM

As Obama senior was a brit cit when Barry was born… by that very fact, the Brits consider him a citizen of Great Britain… and thus, a dual citizen.

Romeo13 on December 4, 2008 at 11:42 PM

Except, in reality, they don’t consider him a British citizen. He had a window of time to apply for British citizenship when he became an adult, but he didn’t apply, and the window has passed. Once you become an adult, it’s not automatic. You have to apply for it.

RBMN on December 4, 2008 at 11:47 PM

Actually, he might have been a triple citizen – US (our laws – US mother), British (British laws – father British citizen), and Kenyan (Obama states on his website he was a Kenyan until “his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982″.

faraway on December 4, 2008 at 11:48 PM

He had a window of time to apply for British citizenship when he became an adult, but he didn’t apply, and the window has passed. Once you become an adult, it’s not automatic. You have to apply for it.

RBMN on December 4, 2008 at 11:47 PM

Do you have a link to this registration requirement?

I didn’t see it perusing through the Act itself. (could have missed it)

faraway on December 4, 2008 at 11:50 PM

Oops.

You are right that Obama stating something doesn’t make it true, but he would have a hard time arguing that he didn’t have legal rights that flowed to him through his father at birth. Unless his father was not the man he has always claimed he was, how can that be?

flyfisher on December 4, 2008 at 11:28 PM

Fair enough.

Basicly, if one of your parents is a brit citizen, you are a brit citizen, but if you are born outside of British territory you don’t pass that citizenship to YOUR children..

At least thats the way it seems to read…

As Obama senior was a brit cit when Barry was born… by that very fact, the Brits consider him a citizen of Great Britain… and thus, a dual citizen.

Romeo13 on December 4, 2008 at 11:42 PM

Didn’t these circumstances change when Kenya got its independence in 1963? If I’m not mistaken all Kenyans born before this chose to be either Kenyan or British subjects–but not both–upon this event. Then, as someone else mentioned above, Kenyans made their own law, almost identical to that of the Brits wrt to paternity. But how would that affect the American-born children of 1963’s former Brits and new Kenyans? (As marti mentioned earlier, Kenyan law says that if the eligible citizen of another country doesn’t claim Kenyan citizenship by age 21, then it is forfeit.)

See why this is unworkable?

(I’m still not down with the idea of being a Brit as you can tell. No offense to our Lime-eating allies.)

baldilocks on December 4, 2008 at 11:55 PM

I HAVE to address those who claim John McCain is not a natural born citizen, YOU ARE WRONG, The Naturalization Act of 1790, which has never been repealed, states; “The children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens.” Mccain was born of two American citizens, on a U.S. Military Base, in the Panama Canal Zone which was sovereign U.S. Territory in 1936 and had been since November 18, 1903 with the signing of the Hay-Bunau Varilla Treaty.
McCain met statutory requirements of a natural born citizen.

nelsonknows on December 5, 2008 at 12:00 AM

nelsonknows on December 5, 2008 at 12:00 AM

hmmm nelson in Cali?

upinak on December 5, 2008 at 12:05 AM

For a crowd so fascinated by beginning-of-life distinctions, it’s funny to see “day of birth” become so important. What if he was conceived on a romantic trip to Cancun?

I know it’s codified this way in the Constitution, but it’s really silly to quibble over 2-3 day difference. It’s not like he was secretly scheming with the enemy while suckling.

It will be an interesting footnote for historical records, but I’d be comfortable with someone who spent their first year in another country.

askheaves on December 5, 2008 at 12:11 AM

“askheaves on December 5, 2008 at 12:11 AM”

MISSING.THE.POINT!

Buckaroo on December 5, 2008 at 12:13 AM

flyfisher,

Apology accepted. Sometimes we can disagree with each and still regard each others intellect and knowledge. Jefferson wanted us to duke it out more than peridiocally; it’s all part of the rough-and-tumble marketplace of ideas.

If you saw the post I made on my own blog, you must have seen that my objections to this have nothing to do with whether there is fire underneath all of the smoke. I’m just being pragmatic. However, if it ends up being proven and the Birthers get their wish, and the country survives it, I won’t be upset in the least.

Unequal Time

bryanmyrick on December 5, 2008 at 12:19 AM

2. Every person who, having been born outside Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall, if his father becomes, or would but for his death have become, a citizen of Kenya by virtue of subsection (1), become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963.

This is from the Kenyan Constitution… whats interesting is that they don’t allow dual citizenship… you have to choose, and give up other citizenships…

BUT, this does not affect British law… I’m looking but can’t find anything that says a Brit cit of Kenyan descent gives up his citizenship of Britain… unless you do the paperwork? still looking…

Romeo13 on December 5, 2008 at 12:23 AM

MISSING.THE.POINT!

Buckaroo on December 5, 2008 at 12:13 AM

More like NAILED the point.

askheaves on December 5, 2008 at 12:26 AM

nelsonknows on December 5, 2008 at 12:00 AM

1790 also says you gotta be White… and citizenship flowed from the Father… so I don’t think its applicable law today…

But that will be up to the Supremes to decide…

Romeo13 on December 5, 2008 at 12:31 AM

I really doubt that BO was born anywhere other than Hawaii, and I’ll people more knowledgeable than me debate on citizenship laws and whatnot.

It just seems ridiculous to me that Obama would pay all these lawyer fees instead of just releasing the real certificate. He is fueling this conspiracy theory himself.

Just produce it and get it over with. No harm in that. Heck, I had to show mine to get my job, why can’t he?

xSerenityx on December 5, 2008 at 12:33 AM

Romeo13,

1790 also says you gotta be White… and citizenship flowed from the Father… so I don’t think its applicable law today…

But that will be up to the Supremes to decide…

So you’re a proponent of judicial activism?

The legal inequities you cite were corrected with appropriate legislation and amendments, not legislation from the bench.

Are conservatives going to throw overboard a dedication to constructionism because it stands in the way of a good lynching? (Yes, I said it.) The liberals and Dems will be quite impressed to find us giving ourselves the one-two punch to own core values.

Unequal Time

bryanmyrick on December 5, 2008 at 12:36 AM

Jonathan Turley, a law professor, writes a cuurent, good review on this issue: http://jonathanturley.org/2008/12/04/eligibility-questions-can-clinton-serve-obama-and-can-obama-serve-the-country/#comment-30141

Eligibility Questions: Can Clinton Serve Obama and Can Obama Serve the Country?

His impressive legal bio is here: http://jonathanturley.org/about/

marti124 on December 5, 2008 at 12:36 AM

Romeo13 on December 5, 2008 at 12:23 AM

Which makes O Jr. not a Brit (and me neither thank God) and makes the father-citizenship route a pointless blind ally if O Jr. was born in the US and never sought Kenyan citizenship before age 21.

Question: Is everyone whose father was born in the UK or in a UK possession considered a dual citizen by American law, even if that person is a bona fide natural born American citizen?

baldilocks on December 5, 2008 at 12:37 AM

faraway on December 4, 2008 at 11:50 PM

As I understand it, since Barack’s father (who was a citizen of Kenya, a British protectorate) never applied for a British passport, as he could have, then Barack’s only path to British citizenship was to become a Kenyan citizen himself first, and then apply for British citizenship as a Kenyan. So, when Barack’s opportunity to become a Kenyan citizen passed, so did any chance of his becoming a British citizen.

RBMN on December 5, 2008 at 12:38 AM

Are conservatives going to throw overboard a dedication to constructionism because it stands in the way of a good lynching? (Yes, I said it.)

bryanmyrick on December 5, 2008 at 12:36 AM

You did, but was it really necessary?

baldilocks on December 5, 2008 at 12:39 AM

RBMN on December 5, 2008 at 12:38 AM

He had to have a British or Commonwealth passport… he was in America before Kenya became a country.

bryanmyrick on December 5, 2008 at 12:36 AM

Nice snark, but when you have conflicting laws, that is exactly what the court is there to decide. As you admited, parts of 1790 have been superceded by later law… like the 1995 Law… but without going through line by line, its hard to tell what is applicable, and what is not…

So, Judicial activism? No… doing their job? Yep…

Romeo13 on December 5, 2008 at 12:48 AM

Grrrr… superceded by the 1795 law…

Romeo13 on December 5, 2008 at 12:49 AM

You did, but was it really necessary?

baldilocks on December 5, 2008 at 12:39 AM

I apologize for using the word “good” to describe lynching even in mocking the near-sighted exuberance of so many Birthers. “Lynching” was deliberately provocative, but isn’t that what this is turning into? Isn’t that how it will be spun? Our cause is going to be gutted for this one at a time when we desperately need to rebuild a relationship with the American people, most of whom voluntarily, gleefully voted for a man, many of whom won’t care if you told them he came from Venus.

bryanmyrick on December 5, 2008 at 12:53 AM

The Naturalization Act of 1790, which has never been repealed, states; “The children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens.”

nelsonknows on December 5, 2008 at 12:00 AM

It was repealed on Jan 29th, 1795.

Buddahpundit on December 5, 2008 at 12:57 AM

A Professor JONATHAN TURLEY, a law professor, has written yesterday a lengthy review of the law cases involved here and it is entitled: Eligibility Questions: Can Clinton Serve Obama and Can Obama Serve the Country?

I posted earlier with a link but it never got posted, I wonder if HotAir does not like links to other sites. I tried posting this 3 times. Anyway, you should be able to google for this article.

marti124 on December 5, 2008 at 1:05 AM

Also on Dec. 3, the Wall Street Law Blog addressed this topic (poorly researched though) but the comments are lengthy (about half as many as here) and many are good:

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/12/03/obamas-citizenship-again-questioned-and-then-answered/#comments

marti124 on December 5, 2008 at 1:11 AM

I am going to try posting the link to Professor Turley’s piece, as it is good. I wonder if I failed using too much html before so I am trying using TinyURL now: http://tinyurl.com/5we8df

marti124 on December 5, 2008 at 1:13 AM

“askheaves on December 5, 2008 at 12:26 AM”

no, you are defending the entire “well, just ’cause the supreme law of the land says something is NO REASON to adhere to it!” position …

/some people’s stupid, emo kids …

Buckaroo on December 5, 2008 at 1:13 AM

I just loved this posting just made at the WSJ Law Blog:

Why can’t you guys investigate this stuff? There was a day when reporters got off their bottoms & actually went to the sources, staked-out leads, & delivered the TRUTH. Stop reporting opinions on other peoples speculations & get some facts on the issue. The Framers were clear on who can be POTUS…they just never made it anyone’s job to check…I expect that’s why they gave usa free press…free to find out or free to sit on the bench for the big game.
Comment by RichMo – December 3, 2008 at 11:51 am

marti124 on December 5, 2008 at 1:16 AM

It was repealed on Jan 29th, 1795.

Buddahpundit on December 5, 2008 at 12:57 AM

Correct. It also only deals with naturalization, not the definition of what is a natural born citizen such as is required by Article 2, Section 1, U.S. Constitution.

Where I agree that there is a lot of room for interpretation (there has never been a case before the SCOTUS for precedent) is in the wording. You know how lawyers love parsing grammar and punctuation to find meaning.

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Semi-colons seperate clauses such that the one clause may not advise the other. I’m not so sure that this law is as solid as we have thought, particularly in light of the fact that it has never been subjected to legal challenge for interpretation or the establishment of precedent.

bryanmyrick on December 5, 2008 at 1:16 AM

Time for a laugh, you all. Check out this link — it alleges that Obama’s mother worked for the CIA. I give it zero credence but a good read. http://www.rense.com/general84/cutut.htm

marti124 on December 5, 2008 at 1:18 AM

For those who didn’t bother reading the Naturalization Acts of 1790, 1795 and 1798, actually, the 1790 Act was never repealed but were AMENDED by the following acts in 1795 and 1798, both prior acts were repealed in 1802.
AGAIN, “The children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens.”
Mark Levin wrote a very informative essay on the subject, Levin, is probably the most informed authority on the subject and on the Constitution.

nelsonknows on December 5, 2008 at 1:35 AM

For whatever reason, the COLB posted on the Obama site appears to be a forgery. Please look at the analysis yourself.

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/07/atlas-exclusive.html

The border differences and the font variations are very convincing.

I looked at the “FactCheck” article (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html) Near the end of the article is this statement:

When we asked about the security borders, which look different from some other examples of Hawaii certifications of live birth, Kurt said “The borders are generated each time a certified copy is printed.

That statement confirms one of the strongest points in the techdude analysis. A computer generated border “is a vector image and would appear crisp and defined”

I use Photoshop in my work and hobby. The border on the Obama COLB looks like Photoshop work to me.

roydee43 on December 5, 2008 at 1:42 AM

For those who didn’t bother reading the Naturalization Acts of 1790, 1795 and 1798, actually, the 1790 Act was never repealed but were AMENDED by the following acts in 1795 and 1798, both prior acts were repealed in 1802.
AGAIN, “The children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens.”
Mark Levin wrote a very informative essay on the subject, Levin, is probably the most informed authority on the subject and on the Constitution.

nelsonknows on December 5, 2008 at 1:35 AM

Sec. 4. And be it further enacted, That the act intituled ” An act to establish an uniform rule of naturalization,” passed the twenty-sixth day of March, one thousand seven hundred and ninety, be, and the same is hereby repealed.
APPROVED, January 29, 1795

I win.

Furthermore, the 1795 Congress actually redefined McCain’s sort of citizen status to the exact sort of citizenship that a foreign born child under 21 would have once his parents became naturalized. I suspect that this was done because the SCOTUS took issue with the prior definition, but records on these sort of matters weren’t kept at the time. The Chief Justice at the time was actually the person who inserted the “natural born” qualifier into the Constitution and he would likely have a say as to how it’s defined.

Buddahpundit on December 5, 2008 at 1:54 AM

nelsonknows on December 5, 2008 at 1:35 AM

Notice the amendment states “The children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens.” — the key word here is “citizens” — for Obama, that was not the case – only his Mother was a citizen, not his father.

marti124 on December 5, 2008 at 1:58 AM

nelsonknows on December 5, 2008 at 1:35 AM

Notice the amendment states “The children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens.” — the key word here is “citizens” — for Obama, that was not the case – only his Mother was a citizen, not his father.

The pluralization is merely in accord with “children”. If you read it that literally than you have to conclude that the law can’t even apply to an individual because it isn’t written as “The child of a citizen”.

Come on. You’re reaching.

bryanmyrick on December 5, 2008 at 2:10 AM

STAND BY ME

Read this most excellent essay by “Dr. Kate” at TexasDarlin:

“The main point of the ‘let there be light’ analogy is to say that the Constitutional eligibility of Barack Hussein Obama is clearly and significantly in question. It is not a rumor, it is not an axe to grind, it is not about race, the popular vote, or affirmative action. It is about our Constitution. We the People have illuminated this subject. And We the People deserve and demand an answer.”

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/12/05/stand-by-me/#more-5324

TeleL on December 5, 2008 at 2:16 AM

/some people’s stupid, emo kids …

Buckaroo on December 5, 2008 at 1:13 AM

Weeeeeeeeeee

askheaves on December 5, 2008 at 3:53 AM

As Chris Matthews said:

He is a gift from the world to us!

IlikedAUH2O on December 5, 2008 at 6:07 AM

Read what you actually WROTE, right2bright. Your claim was that NO ONE can get the BC.

…That’s a false claim. I pointed out that the state law only restricts release OF THE INFORMATION to those with a tangible interest….
If there is at least one person that has a tangible interest, then SOME ONE can get the BC…

VekTor on December 4, 2008 at 9:05 PM

And this was my post…take some of your own advice and read and understand what is posted.

This is my answer to your accusation of misconception… short cut some posts because I linked and they could read it for themselves…

The state cannot release the original BC’s to the public…get it, now if you don’t like that tell the state, not me, I don’t make the rules.right2bright on December 4, 2008 at 8:37 PM

Specifically said she can not release the original BC by state law, tangible interest seems to be the benchmark…

As a result, Fukino said she does not believe Health Department officials could release Obama’s birth certificate to the public even with his permission, although she would need to get a legal ruling to be certain.right2bright on December 4, 2008 at 8:16 PM

See where I stated I short cut some of my posts, but provided links? Others can read the link and make their own decisions.
Now see where I posted the words TANGIBLE?
I will quote me again so you can readily see it…sheesh.

Specifically said she can not release the original BC by state law, tangible interest seems to be the benchmark…

right2bright on December 5, 2008 at 6:57 AM

So if the state emplyees of Ohio could not arbitrarily view Joe the Plumbers records without either Joe or a higher, legal authority giving them permission, who gave fukino authority to go into barry’s records. just because there are lawsuits going on elsewhere, who or what compelled her to go into his file? Unless I guess, hawaii officials are allowed to go digging into anything they want.

Two things stand out about this story and post;

1) barry can easily put all this stuff to rest by having his actual 1961 birth certificate sent to him, put it on pdf and make it available on his website.

2) How ed thinks because the left are a bunch of conspiracy nutjobs, conservatives can’t ask any questions and should bend over and grab their ankles. Hope you get that big cable news payday you’re hoping for, ed.

peacenprosperity on December 5, 2008 at 7:13 AM

Assuming 1) everyone raising the issues is crazy, 2) it’s all a conspiracy theory, 3) blah, 4) blah, 5) blah, ….999,998) blah, 999,999) blah, where is the friggen birth certificate? Let’s see it!

scrubjay on December 5, 2008 at 7:19 AM

I can see Ed’s point.

All these ugly rumors about The One being a marxist, corrupt, an empty suit and now some sort of a Trojan horse or noncitizen will NOT stand up.

There was this same kind of nonsense the last time we were fortunate enough to have a Democratic president. People said that Big Mac Bubba ran with bimbos, was corrupt, lied most of the time, had a nutjob ‘Maoist light’ for a wife who was full of ambition and was gonna cut defense and would fail to take action against foreign enemies or terrorists.

And none of that became a problem!

IlikedAUH2O on December 5, 2008 at 7:37 AM

Tiresome.

The only thing that is tiresome is the secrecy and lack of forthcoming information about our President Elect. We already know that he is and is surrounded by pathological liars. It’s just a birth certificate, and it’s sealed away by order of the Hawaii Governor in a different department than it normally resides in.

How is that not suspicious?

Hog Wild on December 5, 2008 at 7:38 AM

And The One’s full birth certificate will be available at the right time. Just like the Rose law firm records.

IlikedAUH2O on December 5, 2008 at 7:41 AM

…and once a copy of the birth certificate get released, the conspiracy kooks can start arguing that *that’s* a forgery.

It’s a conspiracy theory by this point, folks. Every time that a new piece of evidence comes out, the theory changes around the evidence, or the evidence is wrong. We’ve seen exactly the same sort of behavior regdaring the 9/11 troofers.

There’s only one way to kill a conspiracy theory like this – you ignore it. Which is precisely what the President-Elect is doing. Bluntly, considering the strength of the arguments presented to date, it’s not even worth his time.

Mal Carne on December 5, 2008 at 7:46 AM

This proof of legitimacy is purely a Constitutional matter.

That is the case in point, Ed.

Either the Constitution is upheld, or it further dissolves.

Ed, you never outline the argument against Obama according to every letter of the law, whereas other conservative blogs have taken the time to argue every point of this Constitutional matter, lawyer against lawyer. It is as though you have yet to read their blog posts, or have dismissed their expertise because it would require that you change your own mind to conform with Constitutional legalities.

Everyone appreciates your fair-play approach to life as a conservative. Apply as much of that spirit towards those with the guts to confront an illegitimate POTUS as you do the man who refuses transparency in government.

There is reason to support the Constitution as specified regarding Presidential requirements, though populists may find it tiresome and eschew the application of Constitutional requirements out of spite for unrelated subjects or personalities. Inconvenience or good intentions are poor excuses for breaching Constitutional safeguards.

Personally, I eschew revisionism as it erases historical record and enables authoritarianism while the Constitution is dismissed out of hand.

While I appreciate your position, we have a respectful difference of opinion.

maverick muse on December 5, 2008 at 7:48 AM

peacenprosperity — What is this about conservatives bending over and touching their ankles?

The One already has us doing that to check our tire pressure.

It is the official position of support for the One.

IlikedAUH2O on December 5, 2008 at 7:50 AM

OK here’s a basic question.
Why is Obama being held to a higher standard than any other person born in Hawaii? If ALL long form certificates in the state are sealed, then his use of the short form should be accessible. By demanding a state to change its law for the conspiracy theorists doesn’t that encroach on the state’s right to make decisions about how it handles birth certificates.

DeathToMediaHacks on December 5, 2008 at 7:54 AM

Hog Wild on December 5, 2008 at 7:38 AM

That’s just how things are shaping up around here:

Ed – tiresome
Allah – BC madness
Michelle – Truthers to the left of me, truthers to the right

What a gang. They are all reminding me of Kathleen Parker, Baby Buckley and Peggy Noonan. Just a little late to the BHO party. I think it makes them feel really smart, though.

progressoverpeace on December 5, 2008 at 7:55 AM

LOL Progressoverpeace you are why the GOP is screwed. You’ve traded reason for “loyalty” as the primary standard for advocates for your ideas. Ed, Allah and Michelle are deeply intelligent (well maybe not Malkin) and strong advocates for conservatism, but you’re lambasting them and lumping them with hacks like Noonan and Parker (who isn’t that bad) because they aren’t loyal to this aspect of your ideology. And please don’t confuse your obsession with this with an “objective” evaluation. But this is what’s happened all over the conservative movement. Dissent is not discussed, it’s shunned. In case you haven’t noticed, on the other side of the aisle we are LOVING this kind of stuff. A few posters here *get it*. And you are right there HAS been a shift in Ed and Allah’s posts of late…they are actually trying to engage with the ways conservatism can succeed, rather than fume, in the future. I don’t know why I’m telling you this. I want conservatism to continue to lose, but it’s almost no fun when you are just foaming on and on about this foolishness.

DeathToMediaHacks on December 5, 2008 at 8:03 AM

Carne, making even less sense than usual. If this was not worth The One’s time, release the records. You see spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on lawyers as easier?

At the worst, this could take a couple days of staff time including the Indonesia allegations.

We have precedent — McCain cooperated. His problems vanished. But The One has always had special treatment like a complete lack of vetting, which is why we have this problem.

His ‘ignore it’ tactic is not having great results. They are going to have protesters on the steps of the Supreme Court today. And a conference.

The One smells bad.

IlikedAUH2O on December 5, 2008 at 8:06 AM

Obama, as the president-elect, is being held to the US Constitutional Standard regarding ALL Presidents of the United States.

As Chief Executive of our nation, the POTUS is held to the highest standard of transparent conformity to SUPPORT AND UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Individual states can not effect a law that pre-empts the US Constitution. THAT would be unconstitutional. Hawaii has no legal grounds for hiding the legal documents required of every POTUS.

But you all knew that.

maverick muse on December 5, 2008 at 8:11 AM

It is outrageous to ask The One for his long form birth certificate just so he can be president. Why Deathtomediahacks thinks the long form is sealed. And we have all the other forms and records on this guy.

Wait a minute…

IlikedAUH2O on December 5, 2008 at 8:12 AM

One more point — Kenya has sealed Obama’s records. Why would Kenya have any records to seal on someone who was not born in Kenya? Does Kenya keep records on everyone who was born in Hawaii?

scrubjay on December 5, 2008 at 8:13 AM

DeathToMediaHacks on December 5, 2008 at 8:03 AM

This issue has nothing to do with conservativism. This is a Constitutional question … several independent facets of a very important Constitutional question.

progressoverpeace on December 5, 2008 at 8:17 AM

That’s just how things are shaping up around here:

Ed – tiresome
Allah – BC madness
Michelle – Truthers to the left of me, truthers to the right

What a gang. They are all reminding me of Kathleen Parker, Baby Buckley and Peggy Noonan. Just a little late to the BHO party. I think it makes them feel really smart, though.

progressoverpeace on December 5, 2008 at 7:55 AM

Somehow I think, and I never even thought I would say this about Michelle Malkin, that she, AP and Ed aren’t TRUE Conservatives. Rather they are, dare I say NEOCONS who don’t care about the Constitution, a vital part of the nation’s sovereignty? Michelle is spot on when it comes to immigration and other cultural things. But her column about Trig Palin and her comparison to this potential powder keg for the Constitution…

APPLES MEET ORANGES.

Speaking of her column, one of her posters made an interesting point.

On December 5th, 2008 at 7:34 am, Ralph Gizzip said:

Just because Mr. Berg is a 9/11 lunatic doesn’t automatically mean he’s blowing smoke about BHO’s Constitutional qualifications for the office to which he’s been elected. Remember, BHO has rendered a large portion of his personal file “off limits” to examination. Among those documents are some of his and Michelle’s collegiate papers and his official, original certificate of live birth. I also believe I read where the State of Hawaii will issue “birth certificates” to people not born in Hawaii and that two hospitals on Oahu have no record of his mother ever being a patient. All Mr. Berg is asking is that the SCOTUS examine the documents to settle once and for all BHO’s Constitutional qualification. To my mind that’s a whole lot different than running around screaming, “The government did it!” and it should be de riguer for every Presidential election.

And don’t forget some of the Marxist Socialist Media (Mainstream…if you can call them that) are spinning this. NBC has done two “stories” on this…HELL IT EVEN MADE KEITH BLOWBERMAN’S SHOW!

ABC did “something” as well, but Leo Donofrio’s own site shoots down the inaccuracies in the “story.”

Well, it isn’t ABC itself, it’s a story by ABC affiliate WMAR-TV in Baltimore.

BobAnthony on December 5, 2008 at 8:19 AM

BobAnthony on December 5, 2008 at 8:19 AM

Yeah, things are getting really weird. I find it all more than bit shocking.

progressoverpeace on December 5, 2008 at 8:23 AM

Why doesn’t he just show us his birth certificate at one of his stump speaches he still seems to like to give? I don’t really doubt he is a US citizen but come on man, just show us the damn thing, make fun of all the people getting upset over this and then it’s done.

cadams on December 5, 2008 at 8:41 AM

IlikedAUH2O on December 5, 2008 at 8:06 AM

You talk about “hundreds of thousands of dollars” like it was a big amount of money for the Obama campaign… They probably spent more on pizza for the staffers then they did debunking this idiocy. And Obama’s certainly never dignified this rumor by addressing it directly.

Let me ask this question: If a “long form” copy of the President Elect’s birth certificate was posted online somewhere, does anyone seriously think it wouldn’t be “proven” as a forgery within a day? Someone would claim the border was fuzzy or some such. There is no satisfying a conspiracy theorist, ever. Take a look at the history of the 9/11 troofer movement and you’ll get it. It is *impossible* to prove the President Elect’s citizenship beyond all doubt, because the true believers just don’t care about the evidence.

Mal Carne on December 5, 2008 at 8:41 AM

690 comments must be some kind of record.

bryanmyrick on December 4, 2008 at 11:05 PM

No, here is the record holder.

labrat on December 5, 2008 at 8:49 AM

Why shouldn’t he produce it since there are questions?

Everyone seems to want to pass the buck on the verification process.

I’m more concerned about his Indonesian citizenship and what passport he used to travel to Pakistan. If he got a passport from another country (and affirmed citizenship and allegiance) as an adult that is important to me.

He should also release his college transcripts. There is no pressure on that front either.

We hear all those cries about the secrecy of the Bush administration but Obama hasn’t released a damn thing. His donations are suspect, his background is suspect. Even the prominent right wing pundits take a pass on the subject.

They seem to be making reasonable requests about a verification process that seems to be incredibly outdated for the times if existent in any form at all.

What seems out of the ordinary is the amount of people that are OK with not even checking Obama’s records or eligibility.

This is the right’s ‘Bush stole the election’ battle cry. This is the first step in belittling him in the public’s view.

Until he answers all the questions the theorits will remain alive in some form or another – and we should encourage it.

Mr Purple on December 5, 2008 at 8:59 AM

There is a legitimate question in front of the courts.

Unless we have become so post-modern that we don’t even bother to enforce our laws because that might detract from the hope and change we elected, the president-elect should be forced to produce his birth certificate. It is as simple as that.

Y’all may not like who is raising the issue.
Y’all may think that we should be past worrying about where someone was born.
But it is the law, and the president-elect needs to demonstrate that he complies with it, or the Supremes should say all official-like that we live in postmodern land where that constitution thing is just kind of a suggestion.

With a president-elect who has demonstrably lied about much of his history, and is concealing much more, a good beginning might be to at least know the circumstances of his birth.

It would be nice if the arbiters of the right-o-sphere (Michelle & Charles & Morrissey et al) would get onboard with asking for production of this simple document, rather than acting like we don’t have the right to inquire about the president-elect’s eligability.

It is a simple question, with a very simple solution.

Produce the Birth Certificate, Mr Obama, and make us go away.

ANV on December 5, 2008 at 9:20 AM

scrubjay on December 5, 2008 at 8:13 AM

One more point — Kenya has sealed Obama’s records. Why would Kenya have any records to seal on someone who was not born in Kenya? Does Kenya keep records on everyone who was born in Hawaii?

Most excellent point, seems to be 100% ignored by all those who put down those pursuing the BC issue.

The documentation of such lockage is over at WND – it happened when Jerome Corsi visited Kenya to go over the records. I can’t find a good link now.

marti124 on December 5, 2008 at 9:31 AM

If it’s proved that Harry Reid was born to a Jackass and a Pig, will he be removed?

marklmail on December 5, 2008 at 9:33 AM

It is a simple question, with a very simple solution.

Produce the Birth Certificate, Mr Obama, and make us go away.

ANV on December 5, 2008 at 9:20 AM

Spot-on!

sinsing on December 5, 2008 at 9:38 AM

Morning!

Tiger Woods has a similar scenario (triple whammy), but even his personal situation was way too easier to decipher than this problem we got with this guy right now.

We were confused enough about “double” citizenship scenario, now a 3rd one is in play (or replaced by another country?), and we are as more confused as ever! I would not doubt for a second that this site is being monitored by the left wing “Obama-Media-Mania”, as Sean Hannity likes to call it-and figure out counter-attacks and steps ahead in front of all of us by posting here.

I would not even be surprised if even THEY are twisted like a pretzel and are figuring this out right now! :-P

It is like the Natalee Holloway personal scenario: Easier than what really happened, but more complicated than what it really is. BTW I saw Katablog here; Hey, shout out to you from a Scared Monkey!

ProudPalinFan on December 5, 2008 at 9:50 AM

If it’s proved that Harry Reid was born to a Jackass and a Pig, will he be removed?

marklmail on December 5, 2008 at 9:33 AM

Well, you know the answer to that one, and yes, there are ways to work around these issues…/sarc off

ProudPalinFan on December 5, 2008 at 9:53 AM

Geez, I gotta get to work…

Anyway, I do have a couple of thoughts.

1. As Lt. Columbo used to say “Summtins Bodderin Me”.. The way obama is shielding that cert seems to indicate that there is either something disqualifying or extremely embarassing in it.

2. There simply isn’t a critical mass of people demanding that he show the cert. Figure 52 percent voted for him. When we look at the ‘conservative’ side..we see a lot saying ‘Ho Hum’.. So, perhaps only about 2-4 percent of the country is aware of the issue and feels that something stinks.

3. In situations like that, about the only thing left is to go to the courts. However, regardless of what anyone says, judges are political animals. Can anyone in their right mind believe that Ruth Bader-Marx-Ginsburg would vote to force obama to show the long form??

4. Some in government might also feel that, IF there is a problem with the credentials, it might be better to bury the issue than risk some upheaval. THAT would be treasonous on their part.

5. Remember that obama is narcasisstic and arrogant. ie giving hillary the finger, the pigs in lipstick comment, giving McCain the finger.. He puts up a nice slick facade for those who choose to see that but the chicago thuggery is right underneath. Rememeber the threats of lawsuits agains stations runnning NRA ads, Remember the St Louis attorneys and sherrif, remember Joe the Plumber..

bullseye on December 5, 2008 at 10:11 AM

Guys:

I can explain why Obama will not produce his birth certificate, and it’s not because he can’t, nor because it doesn’t prove he was born in Hawaii.

1) It’s not relevant. The Donofrio case does not rest on where he was born, but on whether his dual citizenship (Kenya/US) at birth qualifies him to be a “natural born citizen” per Article II section 1 of the Constitution.

2) Let’s not forget, Obama won both of the elections he’s won by aggressive court action. The first, he succeeded in having four candidates thrown off the ballot by challenging their ballot petitions in court. The second, surrogates managed to open two sealed case files against two different opponents and make issues of their messy divorces.

Obama, therefore, knows not to take lightly a legal challenge to his candidacy, even if it’s a silly one. Consequently, he won’t simply try to win a case like this on its merits; he’ll pull out all the stops and fight every aspect of the case tooth and nail, hoping to prevent it from ever being heard.

My own sense is that Obama is not, technically, a citizen of the US at all; I think his mother had him naturalized as an Indonesian citizen when she married Soetoro and moved to Indonesia, and I suspect young Barry never formally reinstated his US citizenship. But that’s not at issue in the case the Supremes are reviewing today, and that’s not why BO is fighting these cases so hard. He’s fighting them because he knows, first-hand, that even spurious legal challenges can turn elections.

And let me say, if by some chance one of these cases does manage to knock The One from the throne, karmic justice will have been served in a most delicious manner. Only, I don’t want to be around for the riots when they start.

philwynk on December 5, 2008 at 10:14 AM

Mal Carne — let us see, The One can’t (or shouldn’t bother to) answer these allegations for what reason?

Because someone may doubt Him? Because there are always radicals or nuts?

Gee, that is what kept him from answering questions during the campaign!

This is the dumbest thing I heard since I was stuck in line at DMV and some libtard started saying that we couldn’t do ANYTHING in the mideast since we might make some kid mad who would come back and kill thousands of people. In America or elsewhere.

You answer the question, like McCain did, and put the matter to rest. This is a qualification for the job. Go study the Constitution and the Thomas and Bork hearings. Liberals have inquiring minds. Those with minds at all.

IlikedAUH2O on December 5, 2008 at 10:15 AM

DeathToMediaHacks on December 5, 2008 at 7:54 AM

I’ll bite, even though I shouldn’t…

The ONLY Jobs where dual citizenship, are an issue, are certain high National Security and Military Jobs, and the Presdident of the US.

President is the ONLY job the Framers put the Natural Born requirment on.

His short COLB does NOT state give adequate eveidence of where he was born, because Hawaii law says it can be given to children who are foreign born, and can is also amended during the adoption process.

Barry MAY have been foreign born, and he name changed at least twice, pointing to legal proceedings potentialy including adoptions.

We need his origional 1961 Birth Cert to ensure he was born in the US… the one probably SEALED by Adoption proceedings.

Romeo13 on December 5, 2008 at 10:16 AM

philwynk on December 5, 2008 at 10:14 AM

Good points… but ANY case of this nature is going to allow discovery, which is why I think he is fighting so hard to get them thrown out…

Romeo13 on December 5, 2008 at 10:18 AM

If this was an “anchor baby” issue, MM would be all over this story.
If this was an affront against my “good government state”, Ed would be all over this story.

Obama needs to produce his long form birth certificate instead of producing billable hours for his team of attorneys.

The Supreme Court needs to do its constitution duty…

Gohawgs on December 5, 2008 at 10:21 AM

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