The sadly obligatory SCOTUS birth-certificate post
posted at 10:20 am on December 4, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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The Chicago Tribune briefly revives the Obama-birth-certificate kerfuffle in an update today, if only to throw more cold water on it. Tomorrow, the Supreme Court confabs over whether to grant a review to Leo Donofrio’s lawsuit after having it rejected in district and appellate courts:
The U.S. Supreme Court will consider Friday whether to take up a lawsuit challenging President-elect Barack Obama’s U.S. citizenship, a continuation of a New Jersey case embraced by some opponents of Obama’s election.
The meeting of justices will coincide with a vigil by the filer’s supporters in Washington on the steps of the nation’s highest court.
The suit originally sought to stay the election, and was filed on behalf of Leo Donofrio against New Jersey Secretary of State Nina Mitchell Wells. …
The Obama campaign has maintained that he was born in Hawaii, has an authentic birth certificate, and is a “natural-born” U.S. citizen. Hawaiian officials agree.
The latest buzz surrounds the decision by Clarence Thomas to circulate the appeal petition to the entire court after David Souter rejected it immediately. That really doesn’t mean much, as the Tribune explains. Of the 842 petitions circulated in that manner, only 60 got a spot on the court calendar, and not all of those succeeded. Thomas may have been interested in the technical aspects of the suit rather than the merits, or perhaps it was a slow week.
It does, however, make it news, no matter how much some of us wish it would go away. The state of Hawaii has repeatedly insisted that their records show Obama was born in Hawaii, as the Certificate of Live Birth states. The COLB would get any Hawaii native an American passport with no questions asked, even without the official endorsement of the Republican governor and her Department of Health. There is even a contemporaneous birth announcement in a local paper confirming it.
I’m sure the comments section will fill with various conspiracy theories over Indonesian school records, Kenyan births, and so on. None of it — absolutely none — has any real, solid evidence showing that Obama was born anywhere else than Hawaii apart from sheer speculation and hearsay, and even less evidence that Obama’s stepfather renounced Obama’s birthright citizenship, which he didn’t have the power to do anyway. It’s a conspiracy theory spun by conspiracy theorists (Philip Berg is a 9/11 truther) who use their normal thresholds of evidence for this meme.
Unfortunately, the Supreme Court can’t kill the conspiracy theories. It can only kill the lawsuits, which is what they will almost certainly do tomorrow when they meet.
Update: From October 31:
The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed on Friday what Barack Obama has been saying all along: the presidential candidate was born in Honolulu.
“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate,” said Chiyome Fukino. “State law prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.”
Citing her statutory authority to oversee and maintain Hawaii’s vital records, Fukino said she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.
“No state official, including Gov. Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawaii,” Fukino added.
Update II: From the comments, a link to Donofrio’s explanation:
“Don’t be distracted by the birth certificate and Indonesia issues. They are irrelevant to Senator Obama’s ineligibility to be President. Since Barack Obama’s father was a Citizen of Kenya and therefore subject to the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom at the time of Senator Obama’s birth, then Senator Obama was a British Citizen “at birth”, just like the Framers of the Constitution, and therefore, even if he were to produce an original birth certificate proving he were born on US soil, he still wouldn’t be eligible to be President.
The Framers of the Constitution, at the time of their birth, were also British Citizens and that’s why the Framers declared that, while they were Citizens of the United States, they themselves were not “natural born Citizens”.
Hence their inclusion of the grandfather clause in Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution: No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution shall be eligible to the Office of President; That’s it right there. (Emphasis added.)
If so, this is an even dumber argument than first thought. The children of immigrants born in this country are ineligible to be President? Since when does “natural born” refer to the parents of citizens? Natural born means the person at question was born in US territory, and it always has. Immigration-enforcement activists have been trying to change that definition to eliminate the “anchor babies” issue.
Also, adoption only changes the parentage on the birth certificate, not the place, date, or time of birth. I’ve done an adoption myself and can personally attest to that fact. If Obama had been adopted by Mr. Soetero, Hawaii would only have changed the father’s name on the record — and since Barack Obama Sr has been listed on the birth certificate, it appears that Mr. Soetero didn’t adopt Obama anyway.
Update III: As a rebuttal to Update 1, this from the comments:
The paper lied on purpose. The HI Dept of health went of its way to say everything but that. They do have his original birth certificate, but from where?
The State of Hawaii only keeps birth certificates from births in Hawaii. The State of California only keeps birth certificates from births in California, Minnesota only keeps those from births in Minnesota, and so on. They don’t store information on births outside of their state. Why would they bother to do that? Use some common sense.
Update IV: The Honolulu Advertiser reported on the Dept. of Health statement on November 1 in a little more detail:
State Health Department employees continue to be barraged by requests from people demanding to see Barack Obama’s birth certificate, including some who have called the department’s registrar of vital statistics at home — in the middle of the night.
“This has gotten ridiculous,” state health director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said yesterday. “There are plenty of other, important things to focus on, like the economy, taxes, energy.”
So, in what likely will be a vain attempt to halt the inquiries, Fukino yesterday issued a statement saying that she and the registrar of vital statistics personally inspected Obama’s birth certificate and found it to be valid.
Will this be enough to quiet the doubters?
“I hope so,” Fukino said. “We need to get some work done.”
Fukino issued her statement to try to stomp out persistent rumors that Obama was not born in Honolulu — and is therefore not a U.S. citizen and thus ineligible to run for president.
Fukino, however, repeated the Health Department’s position that state law prohibits her or any other officials from actually releasing the birth certificate, which Obama’s campaign says shows he was born in Honolulu on Aug. 4, 1961.
“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate,” Fukino said in the statement. “State law (Hawai’i Revised Statutes ¤338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record. … No state official, including Gov. Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai’i.”
I guess they’ll have to wait a little longer to get any work done.
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I have given you links that disprove this 3 times already.
faraway on December 4, 2008 at 1:32 PM
Thanks flyfisher. You are doing a great job at explaining this simple yet complicated and certainly very important issue that Ed and many others seem to dismiss. Hopefully the SCOTUS will take the case and settle this once and for all.
rslancer14 on December 4, 2008 at 1:34 PM
He “released” his complete military records to exactly 3 people-the Boston Globe’s Michael Kranish-who had written a book about him-a reporter from the LA Times, and a reporter for Associated Press. Both the Globe and LAT endorsed this empty suit.
The AP reporter is the same guy who earlier this year went ballistic on Mitt Romney during a press conference, so I think you get the idea about how Leftist the three people Jean-Claude Kerri entrusted with his secret really are.
Del Dolemonte on December 4, 2008 at 1:34 PM
Please, read the reports from Hawaii, it states what the officials believe…the original BC, and Obama’s do not have any decrepancies.
He doesn’t have the original, because it was not, and may not be released to him. They would have to get a court ruling, and since they say they match, why go to the effort to appease a couple of hundred nutty people?
right2bright on December 4, 2008 at 1:35 PM
Ooh, ProudPalinFan. You weren’t legally born since there was no witness.
jim m on December 4, 2008 at 1:35 PM
This says nothing of what information is on the BC. The BC could say he was born in Kenya. Hawaiian specifically allows for this. She does not even verify the factcheck copy. Hawaii does not even allow the use of COLB for Hawaiian Homestead purposes they check the “vault” copy. The vault copy would have the Hospital where he was born. It would be original (not amended) information. The real COLB would have notations if it was amended.
Now if Obama were adopted to an Indonesian Father as an Indonesian citizen he could then get an Indonesian passport and remain an Indonesian citizen when he became an adult thereby renouncing his American citizenship (you have to choose your nation when you become an adult). The fact that he visited Pakistan in 1981 as he states in his own book indicates he had his Indonesian Passport at that point as Americans were not allowed in Pakistan then (Indonesians were). How on earth could this not matter. If this is the case he either immigrated or used a forged COLB to get his American Passport. In either case he is hardly a natural born citizen. That is just the facts. It scares me that we could well have an illegal immigrant as President I admit.
Steveangell on December 4, 2008 at 1:35 PM
Republican Truthers
The Race Card on December 4, 2008 at 1:35 PM
jim, it’s already accepted by the SCOTUS that there are two classes of citizens in that clause. Otherwise, it simply wouldn’t make sense.
“or a Citizen of the United States”
That includes ALL citizens right? So what’s the point of adding natural born citizen?
MrX on December 4, 2008 at 1:36 PM
I believe this is how that sentence should be read:
“No person except a natural born Citizen, OR a Citizen of the United States at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President…….
Obviously, the 2nd part was so that one of the British born framers could be elected president. Now that so much time has passed only the 1st part is relevant today.
mrsmwp on December 4, 2008 at 1:37 PM
You and I agree here. The “African” designation issue is silly. They would not say “Negro” for someone from Africa.
faraway on December 4, 2008 at 1:37 PM
Should be so easy to prove/disprove. Do it.
Schadenfreude on December 4, 2008 at 1:39 PM
That’s the question. Your interpretation may be correct. But if so, why did they include the natural born requirement at all? It’s only a requirement for the presidency, not any other federal office.
flyfisher on December 4, 2008 at 1:39 PM
You say — over and over — that the State of HI “can’t release” Osama Obama’s true, accurate birth certificate.
They can: to Obama.
He could then call a news conference, as he so loves to do, and show it to reporters.
End of story.
Add his response to this issue to the lack of documented “work” history, college grades, health records, etc. and you have a man who gives the appearance of having one or more potentially disqualifying skeletons in his closet.
Wanting the truth out there in the open is not “trooferism.” I would put your brand of sophistry, evasion and name-calling out there as a kind of “trooferism.”
MrScribbler on December 4, 2008 at 1:39 PM
Words from an old movie.
Ignore the man behind the curtain.
I am the great and Powerfull Ozbama
ColdWarrior57 on December 4, 2008 at 1:39 PM
Forgot to add that on this document there is a side, typed note that is addressed to the Registrar that states: (translation) The Division of Demographic Registry and Vital Statistics will return to be reissued all and any certificates that may have (can’t read) or any alterations made in violationn of the dispositions of the Law of the Demographic Registry. THIS DOCUMENT IS (can’t read) PERMANENT REGISTRY. TYPE IN A TYPEWRITER OR PERMANENT INK, BLACK OR DARK BLUE. NOT (can’t read), NOR LIGHT BLUE. DO NOT USE OR ALLOW THE USE OF BALLPOINT PENS. RD-78 (9-61)
The (can’t read) words are words that are on the left side of the bottom third part of the certificate, that seems to have a covered part-dunno?? I assume that the words missed are “marks” and “red”.
ProudPalinFan on December 4, 2008 at 1:39 PM
I just wasted my time, you gave no links, just some quotes.
I gave actual links showing the whole context…the state says what Obama has matches what the original BC has…he was born in Honolulu.
Now show me the link that says he was not born there.
Here it is again, there are several but this cover it for all but the true cultists.
right2bright on December 4, 2008 at 1:40 PM
Go ahead and retract.
Hawaii Dept of Health
Ordinarily, you would be right, Ed, but Hawaii hands out BCs to foreigners.
faraway on December 4, 2008 at 1:42 PM
Ooh, ProudPalinFan. You weren’t legally born since there was no witness.
jim m on December 4, 2008 at 1:35 PM
CRAPPOLA! Therefore, I don’t exist…and the musings from this notebook posted here are just made to continue to the length of this issue.
ProudPalinFan on December 4, 2008 at 1:42 PM
Wow, you’ve really showed your ignorance regarding the whole Obama birth certificate controversy in this post Morrissey.
The HUGE OBVIOUS PROBLEMS with just the “certificate of live birth” that Obama and factcheck.org have posted should make any reasonable person question its authenticity. Especially after expert testimony by digital graphic professionals which point out that the different certificates of live birth are OBVIOUS forgeries.
If you want the details Morrissey then watch this video where Dr Polarik (who has a PhD in instructional media with expertise in graphics) covers the evidence in detail.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDIVEfVGLBQ&fmt=18
You can read his full report here.
http://polarik.blogtownhall.com
All Obama would have to do is SHOW HIS VAULT BIRTH CERTIFICATE to end the discussion. So, why in the hell doesn’t he do this?
Your dismissing this important matter seems to be another example of what I am finding to be your quasi-Catholic morality that in this case excuses LYING about the president-elect’s birth certificate. You’ve also showed your disinterest in upholding the universal law YOU SHALL NOT MURDER when it comes to abortion by claiming that abortion is a “state;s rights issue” which is a horrendously evil thing to say.
That you can so easily brush aside all of this evidence against Obama being a natural born citizen is troubling. Especially when Obama could end the controversy by simply showing his vault birth certificate (if he indeed has a valid one).
TheMightyQuinn on December 4, 2008 at 1:43 PM
Troof about BHO?
Ask me.
Fukino!
/
Christien on December 4, 2008 at 1:43 PM
Obama can get the BC any time he wants it.
faraway on December 4, 2008 at 1:43 PM
MrScribbler on December 4, 2008 at 1:39 PM, agree.
A constitutional question…sadly obligatory? Perhaps. How about ‘Trust, but verify?’
Nikita on December 4, 2008 at 1:44 PM
Excuse me, but that is NOT what your own links are saying.
Read JUST what the Officials said, not the spin the reporter put on it.
Is there a Cert of Live birth in Hawaii? Yes.
Does Hawaii change birth certs during adoptions? yes.
Does Hawaii give Certs of Live Birth to folks born outside the country? Yes.
Has any Hawaiin Official said Barry was born in Hawaii? no, they very carefully say they looked at a LEGAL Birth Cert, not ORIGIONAL Birth Cert… but LEGAL Birth Cert.
Did any Hawaii Hospital have records of Barrys birth? no…
Does Barry’s Grandmother say he was born in Kenya? Yes…
Has Barry released his origional birth records, or gone to get Hospital records to put this to rest? No.
Has Barry released ANY documentation besides his 2007 generated Certificate of Birth? No…
Has Barry shown ANY documentation on his citizenship? Even though he could be British/Kenyan/Indonesian/US? No.
Sorry… this ONE doc, even if real, does not proove where Obama was born….
Heck, I could give you my long form birth cert, get my hospital records from birth, and get a bunch of witnesses in a couple of days to proove where I was born… and it sure would not cost me $100s of thousands of dollars to do so.
Romeo13 on December 4, 2008 at 1:44 PM
Ed reported what she said. She said nothing like you are saying. In fact she went to great lenghts to say the Vault copy could only be released with Obama’s consent and she didn’t have it. State Law did not allow her to comment on the contents. Now one of Obamas campaign staff said this and it was in the paper along with what the Gov said but it clearly quoted him not her.
If what you claim were true there would be no discussion at this point. All Obama needs to do is sign a document allowing the release of his Vault Copy of his BC. Instead he spend unlimited amounts on lawyers to avoid that. How can you justify that? It is only a tinfoil hat issue if facts are ignored they aren’t here. The proof that Obama is eligible has simply not been provided. He could be an illegal immigrant form what we know. He has kept all information on his immigration/birth information under lock and key. That is simply un-American.
Steveangell on December 4, 2008 at 1:45 PM
I don’t know why it was written the way it was.
But it’s pretty clear to me that Congress has the ability to define what natural born means anyways, so the whole thing is just an intellectual exercise.
jim m on December 4, 2008 at 1:45 PM
As an AVID follower of these cases (not a tinfoil-wearing conspirist or a chimp, I assure you all) there are quite a few errors of statment posted above as “truths”.
1. The section of US Code posted above as “proof” that, so long as his mother was a US Citizen and had lived in country for 5 years past her 14th birthday is incorrect. Obama’s mother was reportedly 18 at the time of his birth. No chance at getting to those 5 years. Also Hawaii was a Territory less than 3 full years prior to his birth. The math doesn’t add up. Let’s call this a gray area and move on.
2. The section posting the CURRENT U.S. Law (US Code (Title 8, Chapter 12, Section 1401)) above is also incorrect, as Obama’s natural born right would have been governed by the laws of 1961. See Berg’s legal document for the correct statement of that code. Suffice it to say, if Berg is right, and Obama was born in Kenya, and his mother was 18 (and not 17) under the laws of 1961, that made him a British subject only. Again, see Berg’s legal documents for an excellent explanation of this.
3. If his birth was recorded in Hawaii some days later as a “Certificate of Live Birth” then there is no true long-form birth certificate available. Since Hawaii does record both “Certificate of Live Birth” and “Birth Certificate” forms, the statement by the director of Hawaii’s health services is misleading. She DID NOT SAY that Obama was born in Hawaii, only that Hawaii maintains a document “in accordance with their laws”.
4. If Obama cannot provide a “long-form birth certificate” from 1961 then not only is he NOT eligible to be POTUS, he’s in a whole HEAP of Federal trouble. It’s not that he has to step down, it’s that he’s NEVER BEEN ELIGIBLE to be a SENATOR, all of his income given to him by the Gov’t is subject to fraud charges. There would be MASSIVE jail time for him, and for members of the DNC charged with vetting his credentials (Nancy Pelosi or Dianne Feinstein, I forget which).
5. In the laws of the day, if Barak Obama was adopted by Soretoro, by the laws of the US and Indonesia, his US Citizen was forfeit. This is a separate issue from the “natural born” question. At some point, after his 18th birthday, he would have HAD to “re-naturalize” in a ceremony, which comes with it’s own set of paper records. Berg asked for proof of this too. In order to attend Indonesian schools as a student, which there is ample proof that Barak did, one HAD to be an “Indonesian”. End of story.
6. Barak admitted that he traveled to Indonesia and Pakistan in 1981. This could NOT be done on a U.S. Passport. There were no passports issued to Pakistan. On which nation’s passport did he travel. Use of another country’s travel documents is an acceptance of citizenship, under US Law.
7. Then, finally, we come to the real reason why Barak’s college records are sealed. If he was listed as “Indonesian” on them, he was admitted as a foreign exchange student. To every college. If he was truly a natural-born citizen, then he “gamed the system” illegally. That’s fraud. If he was a natural-born citizen, surrendered in favor of Indonesian citizenship, then he went to school legally, but couldn’t serve in the Illinois Senate or the US Senate unless he has proof of re-naturalization. If he cannot prove this, then it’s fraud once more, as he would STILL BE an Indonesian citizen!
Legally, I say that We, the People do have the right to challenge a candidate’s credentials as WE are all members of the electorate. The SCOTUS will have to hear at least one of these cases as the final say on Constitutional law. We are a “nation of laws” and in this case, no one on the side of the DNC can truly say that they’ve seen his official Hawaii long-form birth certificate. Congress is willing to haul CEOs of major corporations before their committees in order to prove that, without Gov’t assistance, they’ll fail, yet not one of them has been willing to step up and say, before the cameras, “Yes, I’ve seen Sen. Obama’s true birth certificate.” That is VERY telling.
I hope this helps you understand just why Obama is fighting these cases tooth and nail. One further point… where is the money coming from for these high-power lawyers? The DNC? The Obama campaign? Illegal use of campaign contributions, anyone?
The man fit to be POTUS is the one who simply stands up and says “Here’s my birth certificate.”
BTW-www.obamacrimes.com has an excellent video as to exactly why the factcheck.org “certificate of live birth” is a forgery. It’s a 2008 document with a 2007 border on the paper! It turns out the State of Hawaii changes it’s border on the paper every year (and the seal and stamp too). The seal and stamp are correct for 2008, the paper’s border is not. There’s more than just that, but that’s the most revealing proof, and one which would stand up in a court of law. Go and watch it. The implication is that someone within the campaign would have consciously-chosen to perpetuate fraud with this document. As well-made as it is, it’s not perfect, but someone evidently spent some time trying to make it so.
The funniest point of the whole issue is this; if Obama’s mother had been 17 at the time of his birth, he would AUTOMATICALLY been labeled a “ward of the state” no matter where he was born, and would AUTOMATICALLY have been granted natural-born US citizenship! Again, from the Berg legal document… look it up! That there’s funny, no matter where yer born!
photomunkey on December 4, 2008 at 1:47 PM
My goodness this place if saturated with stupidity. I thought otherwise, but apparently, the people who post here are not different that the conspiracy morons on freerepublic.
mainmann on December 4, 2008 at 1:48 PM
^too many typos from me sorry
mainmann on December 4, 2008 at 1:49 PM
Give it up right2bright. You’re beating your head against the proverbial brick wall in arguing with these guys. No serious person would give this non-issue a second thought. The bozos you’re “debating” with are no better than the 9/11 Truther nuts. An embarrassment to conservatives everywhere.
dakine on December 4, 2008 at 1:49 PM
Ed, I await your retraction.
faraway on December 4, 2008 at 1:49 PM
Listen, I would love for Obama to be a citizen of Kenyan, I would even pray for it…but it won’t make it true.
First, they have to have their attorney issue a statement that they can release the documents to Obama…why waste the money when they just confirm that the document is accurate.
Second: Yes,Obama could demand and send his attorney in to do it, but why? To appease a few hundred right wing nut jobs? I wouldn’t release them either, I would love to see truthers run around, do you think they help the liberal cause, people see what they are, nutty.
Third: Why demand the original, when the state said his document is accurate?
I haven’t “evaded” anything, are you nuts? I have answered every challenge of this. And yes I will call people what they are. Cultists, truther clones…
And finally, I am more more concerned that the press didn’t press more for his Columbia records, report on his very weak academic showing as “Law Review”, or even the fact that him being elected, after these four years this will be the longest he has ever held a job.
He has so many weaknesses, he is so incompetent…but his documents show he was born in Honolulu.
right2bright on December 4, 2008 at 1:51 PM
Here’s the link to the pdf file so you can read exactly what Dr. Fukino stated in her news release:
http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2008/08-93.pdf
This link was posted in a blog at americanthinker.com:
“That October 31, 2008 statement says that Dr. Fukino “ha[s] personally seen and verified that the Hawai’i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.” That statement does not, however, verify that Obama was born in Hawaii, and as explained above, under Hawaiian policies and procedures it is quite possible that Hawaii may have a birth record of a person not born in Hawaii. Unlikely, but possible.”
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/11/why_the_barack_obama_birth_cer.html
TeleL on December 4, 2008 at 1:52 PM
Ed, you keep posting from the HI paper that lied about the statement by Ms. Fukino.
I will let you examine her statement yourself and then you can tell me if she is saying the BC is valid or from HI.
Please post a link here for all to see.
faraway on December 4, 2008 at 1:53 PM
An 1861 case discussed “natural born citizen” and a full copy of the text is posted here.
From that case:
All persons born in the allegiance of the king are natural born subjects, and all persons born in the allegiance of the United States are natural born citizens. Birth and allegiance go together. Such is the rule of the common law, and it is the common law of this country, as well [**18] as of England.
Is a man born with dual citizenship presumed to have allegiance to the United States? I submit the Framers would have said no. Such a man could just as easily be loyal to the other country as to the United States. The Framers were clearly concerned with divided loyalty.
There are other interesting points in that opinion.
flyfisher on December 4, 2008 at 1:54 PM
mainmann,
Win yew wont two attach udders fur bean stew pet’ bee shear year stoop id, too????twelvity?
Christien on December 4, 2008 at 1:54 PM
The new B.C. has the following info:
CERTIFICATE NUMBER
NAME OF REGISTRANT
DWELLING HOUSE
BIRTHDATE/REGISTRATION DATE
BIRTHPLACE/SEX
FATHER’S NAME/AGE
FATHER’S BIRTHPLACE
MOTHER’S NAME/AGE
MOTHER’S BIRTHPLACE
DATE ISSUED
**********************(yes, these are there)
THIS IS AN ABSTRACT OF THE RECORD FILED IN THE DEMOGRAPHIC REGISTRY OF PUERTO RICO ISSUED UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF LAW 24, APRIL 22, 1931
Signature of the Secretary of Health (different, more recent). Same goes below for the State Registrar).
Bottom middle, the seal of the Department of Health (pretty much the same only contemporary), and *joke* because of course of increase in costs of living, another stupid $2.00 green stamp from the IRS.
At the bottom, a note that states as a warning that any alterations or missing info voids the certificate.
ProudPalinFan on December 4, 2008 at 1:54 PM
Ed, I am not sure that this is quite right.
Jacob Howard, the author of the Citizenship clause in the 14th Amendment stated in debate that it excluded “persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, [or] who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers.”
One SCOTUS case held that children of Native Americans who were not citizens were also not citizens. Later they ruled that children born in the US to Chinese citizens were also citizens but no mention if immigration status was made.
It might be argued that by entering illegally, they had not come under the jurisdiction of the US until some interaction with the federal government took place since they had not yet placed themselves under that jurisdiction and the US had not had a chance to assert it. Mind you, I am no lawyer so I could be completely wrong on this. But clearly SCOTUS has held that not ALL people born in the US are citizens.
OBQuiet on December 4, 2008 at 1:54 PM
farway, there’s really no civil way to say this, so I won’t try. You’re an idiot. Obama is a US citizen. He is eligible under the US Constitution to assume the office of POTUS. Give it up. You look like a fool. You make the rest of us look like fools by association, so please stop and make the rest of your unhinged buddies stop as well.
dakine on December 4, 2008 at 1:56 PM
So what.
Meaningless.
All adopted children have valid Birth Certificates even those born in foreign countries. No doubt he could have gotten one were he born in Kenya because his mother was Hawaiian. His mother could have also said he was born at home and gotten a certificate saying he was born in Hawaii when he was really born in Kenya. The Vault certificate will have this information on it. We know it exist and is “valid” but have no clue what it says. What is says is the all important question of whether he is qualified to be President.
How does this answer the question of what country he choose to be a citizen of when he reached 18 (or 21?)? He could have chosen British, Kenyan, Indonesian or USA. But we do not know what he chose. We only know he ran for and won the Presidency. His trip to Pakistan strongly argues that he chose Indonesian as that would have allowed his entry to Pakistan while in 1981 Americans were not allowed in.
Steveangell on December 4, 2008 at 1:57 PM
Why does Morrissee keep posting what he believes to be the most irrelevant comments as “Updates”?
There are a lot of potential issues here, but the whole problem would disappear if Obama would simply release his medical records.
As long as that childishly simple issue is sidestepped, OF COURSE an infinite number of ancillary points will always come up. But sniping at those strawmen doesn’t help anything — it only exacerbates an already very elaborate effort at obfuscation.
logis on December 4, 2008 at 1:58 PM
still waiting , ed.
faraway on December 4, 2008 at 1:59 PM
Natural Born citizen isn’t a phrase contained in a bill passed by Congress. It is from the founding document of our nation. Congress can’t rewrite that document. And all the Court is supposed to do is interpret that document.
flyfisher on December 4, 2008 at 2:00 PM
Aww.. does this mean you can’t ever be President?
Thank you all for the insight.
From what I have now gleaned, I see that you can have a Hawaiian BC & still never have been actually born in that state.
So this is all very interesting.
It is also very telling that Obama is not producing a real BC for the people.
You would think he’d like to clear this thing up & move on.
People who have nothing to hide will comply easily with requests like this.
So I am therefore mystified as to why the man has not done so.
And please spare me the “he doesn’t have to” schtick.
You bet he should have to. He’s a public figure about to become POTUS for God’s sake.
BTW-as an amateur genealogist, I see false info on BCs all the time, as far back as you can go on these things in age.
So it would not surprise me if the state of HI had given him a BC if he wasn’t born there.
I think Obama’s mother actually understood the implications of his birth & if she couldn’t have really been there due to this supposed plane incident in her late pregnancy, then I could see why she might have had motive to cover her tracks & lie about his birth, which was easier then than it is now.
But we will probably never know. The dead do not speak. Unless you’re Jennifer Love Hewitt.
Badger40 on December 4, 2008 at 2:00 PM
I got my passport last year.
In order to get the passport I had to produce my BIRTH CERTIFICATE which I thought I had.
What I had was a CERTIFICATE OF BIRTH and IT was/is NOT acceptable. In order to get my BIRTH CERTIFICATE WITH THE RAISED SEAL, I had to go to the office of records and vital statistics. THEY have the original BC.
I was able to get a copy of the original BC WITH a raised seal to use to get the passport.
The CERTIFICATE OF BIRTH has a seal on it, but it is PRINTED, NOT RAISED.
As has been stated by SO MANY OTHERS here, NO BC FOR OBAMA HAS EVER BEEN PRODUCED. NO STATE OFFICIAL HAS EVER SAID THAT OBAMA WAS BORN IN HAWAII.
The ONLY thing that Hawaii state officials have said is that the COPY of the COLB matches the ORIGINAL COLB and that the BC is on file.
If it is ILLEGAL for the state to release the BIRTH CERTIFICATE, what document was posted on the internet?
A copy of the COLB, NOT the Birth Certificate. TWO. ENTIRELY. DIFFERENT. DOCUMENTS.
Talon on December 4, 2008 at 2:00 PM
I give up, the Kool-Aide was too strong. You drank too much, you read things that don’t exist, you see things that only a few are chosen to see.
dakine is correct, it is a losing battle…even official statements doesn’t sway the cultists.
I can see why the JFK stuff lingers, how OJ was let off after all the evidence presented, I can see why the 9/11 cling to their beliefs, Scientology with their men on the other side of the moon, Rev. Jones, Heaven’s Gate, and maybe why people were so enamored by Obama.
I give up, I surrender…I think Obama is a space alien, maybe a shift-shaper (one of the lizard people)….
right2bright on December 4, 2008 at 2:01 PM
I’m fearfully waiting for this re-writing to occur.
And of course we know the courts do more than ‘interpret’.
Badger40 on December 4, 2008 at 2:01 PM
- The biggest question I can see arising from this is: Would the SCOTUS declare the Presidental election results to be null and void due to fraud? If the Primary selection process was altered due to fraud, can you claim that the Electorate was given a fair choice? Would we be stuck with Biden?
- I say we would not, if the SCOTUS hears the case and decides before Inauguration Day. If the top of the ticket was fraudulently presented, then that would make the entire ticket, and the DNC party as the source of the verification of Obama’s credentials, culpable. Accessories to fraud, if you will. Poof! Where would that leave us?
- With Nancy Pelosi as temporary President until a new election could be help. Bush and Cheney both leave office by law on January 20th, 2009. Voila, Speaker of the House succeeds to POTUS. Temporarily, we have our first woman President. We don’t have to like it but that’s the law.
- I think THIS is the real reason why Obama’s doing everything he can to ACT like a President now. He has no office or title until after the Electoral College votes.
- Personally, I don’t like to see Ed’s implication that this is a frivolous story. This is a Constitutional issue, and at the very core is the right for someone to be elected to lead our country. As far as stories go, it really cannot get any bigger than this. This is NOT some giant conspiracy on the part of the right. This is about whether someone running for the highest office can legally deny access to his birth certificate, even though it states directly in the Constitution that he must reveal if he’s a natural-born citizen. The long-form birth certificate is the ONLY PROOF acceptable in court. Period. End of the conversation. For Ed to insinuate that we’re all loopy for INSISTING on sufficient proof… well now, that there’s just plain crazy!
photomunkey on December 4, 2008 at 2:01 PM
With a raised seal, with a signature, and confirmed to be real by the state officials.
Other then that, he probably is one of the Lizard People.
right2bright on December 4, 2008 at 2:02 PM
You Betcha this is gonna beat Sarah’s posts! LOL!!!
Just as an FYI, I dunno what you consider “long” or “short” forms; both my birth certs. as you can see, are pretty different as to the information provided, the original looks like crap and the new one well, looks superb and still brand new. Just like my firstborn! The new BC is issued in a sheet of paper that resembles the dollar bill, three-toned with little strands all over the place and the background has a white seal of the Dept. of Health. Compared to my DH’s BC both are 8.5X11 and his is short and to the point as well.
My point is, because B.O. is OLDER than me, I am most CERTAIN his BC is detailed as MINE is. So cough it up, shinemeinster!
ProudPalinFan on December 4, 2008 at 2:04 PM
Ah, yes, when you can’t win an arguement with facts, just dismiss the opposition as insane…
Romeo13 on December 4, 2008 at 2:05 PM
Heh, another laugh…
- Quoting from the Chicago Tribune as a source which is “throwing more cold water” on this issue is like trusting any of the MSM for your election facts. Haven’t we already gone down that discredited road far enough? Isn’t that the whole point of being on the Hot Air blog in the first place? LOL
-Isn’t the Chicago Tribune the head cheerleader for the home team in this case?
photomunkey on December 4, 2008 at 2:05 PM
Ed’s comment proves he knows even less about this than I first thought. I am embarrassed for you, Ed.
flyfisher on December 4, 2008 at 2:06 PM
At least the American People can rest assured that Barack is not his real name and he is not a licensed community activist with sudden celebrity.
Christien on December 4, 2008 at 2:07 PM
I never said they won’t rewrite the Constitution. I fully expect them to either ignore this or do some rewriting. If they decide to render an opinion at all, I will anxiously read either the Thomas or Scalia dissent to know how this case should have been decided.
flyfisher on December 4, 2008 at 2:08 PM
Yes, that is the press release about how they handle the release or non-release of the original birth certificate. NO one is arguing that, they can’t release it and they have handled it within the confines of the state laws.
That is why Obama has a COPY, you just have now taken a step towards our side.
Next find the press release saying that the documents are accurate…hint, I have you the press release. That they are hoping that this is finally put to bed, that Obama was born in Honolulu…then you will have stepped into enlightenment…
right2bright on December 4, 2008 at 2:09 PM
I’m disappointed in Ed too, flyfisher. If Ed has bothered to read Dr. Fukino’s statement as we both linked to above, he would realize how misleading the Honolulu Advisor was when it reported on Dr. Fukino’s statement.
TeleL on December 4, 2008 at 2:11 PM
I’m just bummed that no one commented on my theory that the fix was in with Hawaii because Obama’s father was the leading importer of macadamia nuts on the African continent back in the 60’s.
That and the Sakarno – Boy’s From Brazil – connection leave no doubt that Obama is actually Jesus Christ. Or just another Muslim bastard-child from Indonesia.
Next topic please.
grdred944 on December 4, 2008 at 2:11 PM
What’s he hiding that he wont just release it?
more info;
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2141909/posts
christene on December 4, 2008 at 2:11 PM
Actually, flyfisher, Congress can interpret (through amendment) what “natural born” means. Otherwise, how would the amendment to 8 USC 12, 1401(g) that changed the 5 years to 2 years have occurred? And why would McCain have asked for a clarification of his status by the Congress?
jim m on December 4, 2008 at 2:11 PM
How about the fact that it would be far cheaper. Or the fact that it would shut up the “right wing nuts” for good on this issue.
But he would also have to show proof he chose the USA and not another countries citizenship when he turned 18. He could easily do this by releasing his passport information from back in the 1980’s when he traveled to Pakistan.
Steveangell on December 4, 2008 at 2:11 PM
Yeah, you’re not insane, you are obsessed…do yout hink the truthers are “normal”, do you think Rev.Jones followers were “normal”, well I think you guys are the same kind of “normal”.
right2bright on December 4, 2008 at 2:12 PM
Key here is WHEN Obama is found not meet the requirments for President.
Remember, there are still two Constitutional steps needed for him to be President, the Electoral College, then the House must certify the Electoral vote.
If he is found deficient BEFORE the electoral vote, they still vote… Some McCain Votes, some Obama votes (by state law), some other votes (Hillary?). Then the House decides… with each state getting ONE vote, and they can only vote for one of the top three electoral vote winners.
If between the Electoral Vote and Congress certifying, then the HOUSE chooses the President from the top three electoral vote getters… (McCain wins… as only Obama and McCain would have electoral votes).
IF after the Congress accepts the Electoral vote Obama is found deficient… it gets really murky… it could be aruged that Pelosi takes power until a President is legaly selected (back to Congress?), or, they could devolve down to Biden, due to the laws of succesion….
Romeo13 on December 4, 2008 at 2:12 PM
right2bright, I don’t have a “side”. I just see this as a mystery. I like to see facts to solve a mystery.
Obama does not have a COPY. The state has the original BC from 1961 (from somewhere). Obama has shown a COLB.
The link that I have shown you 3 times is here
faraway on December 4, 2008 at 2:14 PM
I have to admit, the thing about him travelling to Pakistan in 1981 has me wondering. I’ve never read his book, never will, but does he admit to travelling there with a passport? Maybe he snuck in.
I would like to see this ‘natural born citizen’ stuff cleared up once and for all. If my husband ever got stationed overseas, and we had another child, I’d hate to think that that child was not the same type of citizen as the ones born stateside. Military kids are some of the most patriotic kids I’ve ever met; they’re the last people I’d want to bar from the Presidency.
Anna on December 4, 2008 at 2:15 PM
This says nothing. Sure they looked at a BC and saw a piece of paper but said nothing of the actual place of birth and whether it ocurred in Hawaii or some place else.
Hawaiian residents have up to a year to record a Certificate of Live Birth regardless of where the birth took place.
As to only a few hundred people who are interested in this. Try in the hundreds of thousands as witnessed by those signing the petition at World News Daily.
iamsaved on December 4, 2008 at 2:15 PM
Right wing nuts?
You might want to check out the political party who started this journey, also Hillary and hussein on McCain’s birth Certificate.
christene on December 4, 2008 at 2:16 PM
Ed said:
For one thing, Obama’s father was not an immigrant. He was never a US citizen. Had Obama, Sr. become a citizen, the natural born citizen question would be moot.
Furthermore, it’s not about Obama’s parents. It’s about Obama, who possessed dual-citizenship at birth. The question is whether or not a person with dual-citizenship is natural born under the Constitution. At best that is an open question. It’s a case of first impression. And your references to anchor babies and adoption cases are irrelevant. They are meaningless bits of trivia that will have little to nothing to do with the outcome in this case.
flyfisher on December 4, 2008 at 2:16 PM
Ah, so now I’m the same as a Jim Jones follower… intersting…
Its interesting that while we are asking for EVIDENCE and source documents, that are easily attainable, we are the “truthers”…
Romeo13 on December 4, 2008 at 2:19 PM
Ed, you are welcome to put this link in your updates.
HI Stae Dept of Health
It does “defy common sense” as you put it. But that is why Hawaii has many thousands of Birth Certificates on file from other countries.
faraway on December 4, 2008 at 2:19 PM
If he’s found deficient before the House certifies the Electoral College vote, methinks Pelosi and Co. will attempt to change the rules on the playing field.
photomunkey on December 4, 2008 at 2:20 PM
Yeah, but to do that they would have to amend the Constitution… hard to do in a short period of time… espeicaly with that Pesky Ex Post Facto provision in there….
Romeo13 on December 4, 2008 at 2:23 PM
Remember this. Hillary’s supporters are the ones trying to upend Obama’a election results with this BC controversy.
Berg is a Hillary supporter.
If this is successful, she will try to lay the blame on the GOP (stolen elections, etc.)
THIS is the reason that HotAir and others should be covering this topic. Don’t be lulled to sleep with the stupid Berg troofer stuff.
faraway on December 4, 2008 at 2:23 PM
His people have worked on this issue for a few years now;
‘Natural-born’ requirement called ’stupidest provision’
Also ‘discriminates, outdated, undemocratic and assumes birthplace a proxy for loyalty’
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=82680
christene on December 4, 2008 at 2:24 PM
This topic is better framed as “Hillary Tries to Steal Election from Obama” vs. “sadly obligatory”….
faraway on December 4, 2008 at 2:25 PM
Y’know, it’s always been rather fashionable for Hawai’i residents to travel to Kenya and obtain official documents for their kids who were born in Hawai’i. I mean, who’d ever want to admit to being from Hawai’i?
/Locals Only, Braddah!
Christien on December 4, 2008 at 2:25 PM
I have seen that, it was asked actualy by Gov. Lingle to show that the state has handled his BC in the correct manor. Lingle is a huge supporter of Palin, and wanted to be sure she was not implicated in anything with his BC.
It shows that they handled the affair in conjunction with state laws.
They sent him the appropriate document, signed and sealed. That document’s information was based on the information from the BC which they had inspected.
And here is the zinger:
Give us some proof, and then we talk…otherwise, you can keep asking him if he will continue to beat his wife…
right2bright on December 4, 2008 at 2:26 PM
I know what Congress did, but I believe the Congressional clarification on McCain was invalid. If his status is successfully challenged, that bit of legislation won’t save him. I guarantee if the Supreme Court disagrees with the Congressional interpretation, we will abide by the Supreme’s definition.
Despite everything I’ve said and all the arguments I’ve made, I will be shocked if the Supreme Court does anything but ratify Obama’s status, most likely through inaction. But that will never mean Obama met the Framer’s definition of atural born citizen, which is the only definition that should matter.
flyfisher on December 4, 2008 at 2:27 PM
Romeo, this is a non-issue and there really wasn’t an argument for right2bright to win. If there was, however, he won it, and he won it with facts. Based on your posts and others like them, you are deluded, paranoid and unhinged for sure. Probably not insane, but pretty damn silly.
dakine on December 4, 2008 at 2:29 PM
Flyfisher, your 1861 case was a Kentucky case. As a lawywer, you’ll know that it may be considered by, but it in no way binds, the US Supreme Court.
jim m on December 4, 2008 at 2:29 PM
Oh absolutely. I just found it interesting. It is one of the few American cases to ever tackle the natural born issue in any way whatsoever. I never said it was binding precedent, because it’s not.
flyfisher on December 4, 2008 at 2:31 PM
It really wouldn’t do to have our first Halfrican-American President-elect disqualified on a technicality like he’s one of his own opponents early in his career.
/
Christien on December 4, 2008 at 2:32 PM
It was created this way because of the discrimination between the Asians.
Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, Hawaiians, Phillipinos, there was huge discrimination problems, and it often began with…where were you born. Also a large influx of “bastard” children from the war. It was a melting pot, and I think they wanted to remove as many labels as they could.
right2bright on December 4, 2008 at 2:32 PM
Interesting. If you really want to split hairs, the House could not select Biden, because a) he wasn’t running for President and b) the man he would replace according to the succession law never was President.
What a mess!
Though it didn’t come up (seriously, anyway) for 43 Presidents, I suggest a new Osama Obama Law be passed, mandating that all would-be Presidential candidates supply proof of their legal right to hold the office to the House of Representatives before they can even put their names on primary-election ballots.
This was never an issue with honorable candidates of the past. Obama breaks new ground by being the first President (if he gets through the last steps, which I’m sure he will) to make the highest office in the land a total mockery.
MrScribbler on December 4, 2008 at 2:33 PM
Jim,
I found that case on Lan Lamphere’s website. He’s a nut and his “Homerun” assertion is just plain wrong.
flyfisher on December 4, 2008 at 2:35 PM
I am reminded of this speech the late Michael Chrichton gave.
rslancer14 on December 4, 2008 at 2:40 PM
I believe the proper US Navy approved response to that is… Blow me.
Until I see an ORIGIONAL Birth Cert, signed by a Doc, he has not won anything.
We’ve shown that the document produced does not necessarily proove where he was born, under Hawaii’s own laws and statutes.
The Hawaii Officials have very carefully NOT stated he was born in Hawaii…
and in fact this:
Was an editorial statement from a REPORTER, not from the source herself. Notice, its not in quotes, like the rest of the statement???
But don’t worry, I’m apparently deluded to ask for proof that the guy who is going to be our President actualy meets Constitutional Requirememnts…. like the Oath (which is still in force as I am part of the Fleet Reserve) to defend the Constitution calls for.
Romeo13 on December 4, 2008 at 2:42 PM
Yep, its a mess all right… and it will be political/legal hair splitting to the max if this allegation turns out to be true.
Romeo13 on December 4, 2008 at 2:44 PM
Not quite. The burden of proof falls to Mr. Obama, just as it does for you to get a security clearance or drivers license.
The point of many posting here, including me, isn’t that this is a case that makes a lot of sense, but rather an extremely bizarre set of circumstances. If he’s born in HI, I think that the simplest defense in the determination of Natural born status would be to provide an official birth certificate. Why fight that? Why have lawyers associated with Mr. Obama written about the natural birth clause?
Why does he do this? That is the answer I want to know.
Marine_Bio on December 4, 2008 at 2:45 PM
Romeo, the trolls aren’t listening. Plus Ed wants to stay away from this thing – and rightly so.
faraway on December 4, 2008 at 2:46 PM
No Badger…
Perhaps I cannot be POTUS but my youngest one can, since she was born in PA. So sorry you are gonna have to put up with my presence and my buttocks on this country! To which also I may add that I do not take advantage of the system, like many ILLEGAL ALIENS do. Sorry to burst your bubble but I am a proud 2nd. Class US Citizen (read below as to why), and carry my US Passport and pay with US Dollars as much as you do. It’s all about birthplace, which is something that Barrrraackk cannot prove beyond REASONABLE DOUBT!.
If you cared enough to watch the Democratic Presidential primaries in Puerto Rico, precisely the MSM was baffled as to why the PR Democrats can vote for POTUS, but the residents of PR cannot vote for POTUS. I watched that unfold here, not there! As it turned out, Hillary became the candidate for President in Puerto Rico, mostly because the Clinton administration worked more in sync with the PR Govt.
Obama’s campaign was incredibly ridiculous, dancing salsa (please, oh please picture it because I saw it on video!) all by himself-no Michelle-while the people watched on the sidelines, barricated away from him and not allowed to touch him or mingle with his divine aura. I want to point out the difference with the Republican Party, that they do not hold Presidential Primaries in US Territories…now that, my dear Badger, is what is called a TRUE 2nd Class US Citizenship. I want to add that we go along to battle arm in arm with the troops, and help you in the quest for freedom since WWII.
I can see how HI law is so screwed up, or overwhelmingly generous to all and any who step in their land and claim US Citizenship. But another question I need to ask because it has not been brought up here, is if Hawaii has its own Constitution before becoming the 50th. US State, because it MAY clash with the US’s. That happens from time to time in Puerto Rico, but mostly when it comes to the judicial angle.
Badger, I may or may not wish to *be* Jennifer Love Hewitt, but I sure wish I had some of her curves!
ProudPalinFan on December 4, 2008 at 2:47 PM
I think that applies to most of us in some way.
Marine_Bio on December 4, 2008 at 2:48 PM
I see in the posting at http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/04/the-sadly-obligatory-scotus-birth-certificate-post/ that you quote from a link at http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2008/10/27/daily60.html a quote from the officials at Hawaii:
The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed on Friday what Barack Obama has been saying all along: the presidential candidate was born in Honolulu.
“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate,” said Chiyome Fukino. “State law prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.”
Citing her statutory authority to oversee and maintain Hawaii’s vital records, Fukino said she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.
However, the journalist who wrote for bizjournals is making an unwarranted conclusion from the statement underlined. Fukino does not state Obama was born in Hawaii.
In your second quote, taken from http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20081101/NEWS05/811010345/1001/localnewsfront there are these statements:
State Health Department employees continue to be barraged by requests from people demanding to see Barack Obama’s birth certificate, including some who have called the department’s registrar of vital statistics at home — in the middle of the night.
“This has gotten ridiculous,” state health director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said yesterday. “There are plenty of other, important things to focus on, like the economy, taxes, energy.”
So, in what likely will be a vain attempt to halt the inquiries, Fukino yesterday issued a statement saying that she and the registrar of vital statistics personally inspected Obama’s birth certificate and found it to be valid.
Will this be enough to quiet the doubters?
“I hope so,” Fukino said. “We need to get some work done.”
Fukino issued her statement to try to stomp out persistent rumors that Obama was not born in Honolulu — and is therefore not a U.S. citizen and thus ineligible to run for president.
Fukino, however, repeated the Health Department’s position that state law prohibits her or any other officials from actually releasing the birth certificate, which Obama’s campaign says shows he was born in Honolulu on Aug. 4, 1961.
Again, the reporter at the Honolulu Advertiser is making an unfounded conclusion, Fukino did not state that Obama was born in Hawaii, only that Obama’s birth certificate on file is valid.
Ed, the full statement by Fukino says nothing more – see http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2008/08-93.pdf
What about valid Hawaii Birth Certificates?
Read this piece at the American Thinker – http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/11/why_the_barack_obama_birth_cer.html
It cites this Hawaii law at http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm
[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.
(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.
(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]
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marti124 on December 4, 2008 at 2:50 PM
rslancer14,
Thank you for noticing! I appreciate it. I somehow missed your comment earlier.
You are right, this is in fact a very simple matter. Most of the arguments people have raised in this thread are simply irrelevant. The issue has been made unnecessarily complicated. I learned a long time ago to boil all legal matters down to their essence. You’ve got to examine them in their simplest terms. As with most legal cases there are all kinds of tangential questions that can be raised to muddy the waters. But most of the time, if you look closely, your case will hinge on one or two key questions. And this case is no different.
The key issue here is very simple: Does a man born with dual-citizenship meet the definition of “natural born citizen” pursuant to the United States Constitution?
I submit the answer is no, but I recognize others will disagree. The Supremes will probably disagree as well.
flyfisher on December 4, 2008 at 2:51 PM
Brilliant! Crichton was the best.
flyfisher on December 4, 2008 at 2:53 PM
Ok, I have to ask this again. (I did earlier, but I’m sure it was missed in the storm of comments)
I think the argument that one parent is a natural born citizen and being born on US soil will likely win the day. So, wouldn’t the birth certificate be a crucial piece in support of that?
Also, what would your interpretation be for McCain?
Marine_Bio on December 4, 2008 at 2:59 PM
Here is Hillary partying it on Puerto Rico:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ82U2tZoUE
ProudPalinFan on December 4, 2008 at 3:01 PM
Sorry, Ed, but I’ve got to disagree with your dismissal of this whole thing. I agreed at first that the issue seemed silly, but it has been given legs by Obama himself. The fact remains that Hawaii will hand out COB’s to foreign-born children brought to the US. That means that EVEN IF Obama comes up with a legit COB, the question of his eligibility to be president is not answered fully. I resent his evasion of this issue. His lawyers have racked up a lot of time (=money) trying to get this whole issue thrown out of court, when a straightforward, complete, and open revelation of pertinent documents would clear this issue up without ambiguity for all time.
I have to ask – what is Obama hiding? Because it sure looks like he is. Perhaps we’re just seeing a brand of arrogance, that basically he doesn’t feel he should be questioned on his qualifications. THAT is worth exploring, if nothing else.
commenter on December 4, 2008 at 3:02 PM
I’ve dealt with lawyers so long that it almost doesn’t even bother me anymore. Sure they’re constantly trying to deceive you, but they have to work at it; because they know if they get caught lying, they’re in big trouble.
But the first time I talked to a reporter, my blood ran cold. I looked in his eyes and saw: here is a person who isn’t just trying to lie; he honest-to-God couldn’t possibly care less whether what he writes is true or not. All he wants is a story – period. Worst case scenario is he ruins the lives of a hundred people he doesn’t know, and has to issue a one-line, page 22 retraction. And unless he’s done that more than a dozen times in the last few months, he knows he’s home free.
I’ve read quotes in the newspaper, allegedly from ME, that I would never even recognize if I didn’t see my own name next to the words. For all I know, I’ve been “anonomously” quoted a hundred times and had no idea what I read was supposed to have been based on something I said.
But, when it comes to anything even remotely political, it’s a lot worse than that. I trust the media to be accurate about things like local news or tomorrow’s weather almost half the time. But that’s only because they have no REASON to lie about most things. They just don’t CARE one way or the other.
Unfortunately, when it comes to politics, those stellar accuracy ratings go in the toilet. Talk to any journalism student in the country and ask them why they’re there; and not a single one of them will say “It’s because I want to report the news.” They all say: “It’s because I want to change the world!” And you don’t do that by objectively repeating facts.
Journalists HATE reporting that crap about Bobo the chimp escaping from his cage, or a local grade school’s talent contest. The only reason news organizations do that is to build up a reservoir of fake credibility so people will have a tendency to mindlessly accept their slanted political coverage.
logis on December 4, 2008 at 3:02 PM
You are right. Ed is wrong. I don’t know if Obama is a natural born citizen or not. I hate his mother effing guts so I hope not.
JiangxiDad on December 4, 2008 at 3:04 PM
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