Israel prepares for Iranian strike without US cooperation
posted at 8:33 am on December 4, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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According to the Jerusalem Post, Israel has begun planning for a strike on Iran’s presumed nuclear-research sites without cooperation from the US. Sources tell the JP that they’d prefer to partner with the Americans, but that they have to plan for the contingency of refusal:
The IDF is drawing up options for a strike on Iranian nuclear facilities that do not include coordination with the United States, The Jerusalem Post has learned.
While its preference is to coordinate with the US, defense officials have said Israel is preparing a wide range of options for such an operation.
“It is always better to coordinate,” one top Defense Ministry official explained last week. “But we are also preparing options that do not include coordination.”
Israeli officials have said it would be difficult, but not impossible, to launch a strike against Iran without receiving codes from the US Air Force, which controls Iraqi airspace. Israel also asked for the codes in 1991 during the First Gulf War, but the US refused.
According to the Post, Israel has twice asked for a green light and the codes, and the Bush administration has refused. The US has installed missile-defense systems and deployed our own people to man them. The Post notes that our intentions serve both Israel and ourselves, as it allows the US to watch Israel for any signs of military action.
Israel would have a difficult but not impossible task in hitting enough sites in Iran to make a difference. The most direct route would take then through Iraqi air space, which would also require the IFF codes to avoid getting attacked by US forces. Otherwise, they’d probably have to fly around the Arabian Peninsula, refueling along the way and making their presence known well ahead of the attack. They’d have to hope that they got the actual nuclear sites, as the Iranians decentralized the program as a result of Israel’s attack on Osirak.
What effect would an attack have on the region? If they violate Iraqi air space to do it, we can kiss our position in Iraq goodbye. The Iranian regime would be immeasurably strengthened in the short run; it’s hard to imagine a more unifying event than an attack from Israel on the Iranian populace. Iran would almost immediately order its proxy armies of Hezbollah and Hamas into action against Israel, touching off a war on the Lebanon border and in Gaza.
Would all of that be worth ridding the world of Iranian nukes? You bet it would — but only if it could completely destroy the Iranian nuclear program. That’s a long shot on the order of hitting the lottery, even with US cooperation.
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I’m guessing that your speaking from some kind of basis, but I have no idea what that is. I’m guessing that you were never in the Navy? I was, and antisubmarine warfare was, and still is, my bread and butter. The Typhoon never left port for 1 basic reason. They didn’t need to, the missles they carried were capable of hitting the US from port. They were a bit noisier than the Ohio Class, but that was only during transit. On patrol, they weren’t that different from the Ohio…both were nuclear and both made more noise than a deisel.
The Kilo class is not the Typhoon and thanks to Bill clinton, the Oscar II is super quiet. Kilos are the submarines still in full production. The days of the run silent run deep submarine warfare are over.
The Kilos are the most dangerous deisel electric submarines in production, and have the US Navy sweating bullets if facing one. This is the reason that the restrictions on peacetime sonar training, such as the ones the supreme court just threw out in Southern California are the quantifiabley the most dangerous things our destroyers have to deal with, because it leaves our sailors unprepared to face a Kilo.
Marine_Bio on December 4, 2008 at 11:52 AM
The only problem I fear and always will when it comes to pre-emption is pre-911 syndrome. Who would have believed that 19 men would fly planes into buildings? They would have called them nuts, and until there is tangible proof that Iran has nukes the world will call it another Bush war or Israeli aggression.
Sucks having to defend ourselves PRIOR to being attacked.
broker1 on December 4, 2008 at 12:02 PM
Grrrrr. Stupid transposition error.
deiseldieselMarine_Bio on December 4, 2008 at 12:03 PM
What’s that smell that has all our enemies salivating and just itching for a fight with US and Israel?
Weakness, my friends. Our enemies smell US weakness, and with The One taking office, surrender is at hand. Like sharks in the water, they smell it and the circling grows tighter…
Fishoutofwater on December 4, 2008 at 12:19 PM
Fishoutofwater on December 4, 2008 at 12:19 PM
One of my greatest fears is that Obama has no clue what he’s up against with Putin.
Oh, Russia won’t make an obvious frontal assault, but he’s clearly consolidating power in Russia, the former Soviet satellites, and is quietly working in the Middle East and Latin America. The U.S.S.R. may be gone, but Soviet influence is not.
cs89 on December 4, 2008 at 12:24 PM
As a followup, just note the personality and motives of GWB and Putin. Putin moves from President to Prime Minister- Bush moves to Dallas.
Why is Putin still in Moscow?
cs89 on December 4, 2008 at 12:26 PM
Marine_Bio – I’m glad that in your capacity you are concerned, but I am not so much. The Russians have always overblown things.
This is what I heard about those vaunted Ruskie-Venezuela Naval exercises:
There was no live fire training between Russia and Venezuela; instead of a 21-gun salute, the Ruskies received a 20-gun salute for the 21st gun malfunctioned;
Chavez and Medlev’s bodyguards got into a tussle on the gangplank (Chavez’s bodyguards were denied boarding);
22 ranking Russian officers were robbed of personal belongings at a Caracas five-star hotel;
two Russian military men died in Venezuela – the first had a coconut fall on his head while napping and the second committed suicide over a woman.
Same ol’ incompetent, drunken Ruskies. Keep on top of them, but the Russians are the Russians and the Venezuelans are completely useless when it comes to anything military.
NoDonkey on December 4, 2008 at 12:34 PM
Why? The Iraqis themselves would probably welcome the destruction of a nuclear threat from Iran, although they would probably fear that Iranian forces would invade southern Iraq, so they would call on the United States to strengthen their defense of Southern Iraq.
In such a scenario, the incoming President Obama would probably be forced to give up on withdrawing all the troops from Iraq in 16 months, because even HE wouldn’t want to be accused of leaving Iraq defenseless after it had been stabilized under the last two years of the Bush Administration, and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who voted FOR the Iraq invasion, would probably push for increased troop strength along the Iran/Iraq border, which the Iraqis would welcome.
There’s no doubt that, in the event of an Israeli attack on Iran, Iran would intensify its proxy war in Lebanon, and Israel would need strong leadership. With a foreign-policy rookie like Obama as President, many Americans would probably regret not voting for McCain, and wish they could get a do-over election.
Steve Z on December 4, 2008 at 12:37 PM
Don’t discount the Israeli/Turkish military relationship. They train together and Turkey is worried about Iranian nukes. Israel could travel through Turkey’s airspace to hit several of Iran’s nuclear facilities in the north.
knat on December 4, 2008 at 12:38 PM
Sorry, I jumped on my soapbox too soon. I thought you were saying something different. The Russian modern equipment is far better than most people understand, and they have no fear of a fight when their nationalist emotions are at play.
From the baseline motivation of the individual warfighters though, yes, they are a wreck. The biggest danger with Chavez isn’t his military might, but his alliances. Mr. Ahm-A-Mad-Man has an alliance with him, and ineffective though their military may be, there is a porosity to our southern border that is very troubling for Iranian infiltration.
Just some food for thought.
Marine_Bio on December 4, 2008 at 12:48 PM
Note to Israel: Please do it soon.
dogsoldier on December 4, 2008 at 1:09 PM
Ahem….At some point the Israeli’s will do what they have to regardless of our blessings or support. The Iraqi Air Force consists of a few old transports and helicopters with no AD capacity whatsoever, we will not fire on the IAF. As to those that are soiling their panties over our militaries vulnerabilities when compared to the ex-super power of drunken barbarians and the mighty Iranian war machine, stop reading British tabloids!
dmann on December 4, 2008 at 1:10 PM
Question becomes one of power projection.
In the Black Sea, they are both near homeport (no unreps needed) and more importantly, covered by Land Based Air.
To get to the Gulf however, they would have to transit past Turkey, through the Med, then either through the Suez or around Africa…
Or come from Murmansk… which is a long way…
Could they get a few subs down there? Sure… could they sustain operations like the USN? Not without a secure supply base… Kilo’s cruising range is only 6000 miles…
So, IMO, the only viable threat would be subsurface, and for a short period of time…
Oh, and just so ya know… I’m an old Navy Cold Warrior myself… worked for SubPac for awhile… but been retired for a few years…
Romeo13 on December 4, 2008 at 1:14 PM
cs89,
No one in the world wants Iran to have nukes, including other Muslim nations, because they know the likely outcome. Any protest would have been purely for appearance’s sake. Domestic politics played a bigger role in this decision than international politics.
exhelodrvr on December 4, 2008 at 1:39 PM
Marine_Bio – no offense, I’m enjoying the discussion. I’m Navy medical, so I’m just a civilian when it comes to Navy power. Been on some Gator freighters, but that’s an entirely different matter from subs (did have a nice tour of one once though).
The Russians fight quite well defensively. I don’t recall them doing well offensively though.
Why would the Russians involve themselves anyway? Seems to me they’d be secretly happy with the Iranian oil off of the market and with the resulting spike in oil prices.
NoDonkey on December 4, 2008 at 1:49 PM
No arguing with that logic. My main point with NoDonkey was that if Russia were as insignificant as he had dismissed them to be, then we wouldn’t have backed down on sending our ships into the Black Sea to help with Georgia. I also wasn’t saying that the US was on equal footing with the Russians, just that the Russian equipment is better than the myths paint them to be. (Particularly the Kilo, which Iran owns 7 hulls if memory serves me correctly.)
I think I had concluded that you’re ex-Navy on a different posting, but using the phrase power projection and your knowledge of the ports would have told me that as well. :)
This one is in my backyard, so I may have come across more like a pit bull than I should have, but that is my nature.
Marine_Bio on December 4, 2008 at 1:55 PM
Well, I’m sure they would enjoy the spike in oil prices, but they have some wierd issues with Israel.
Marine_Bio on December 4, 2008 at 1:58 PM
I hope you’re right. But, isn’t Russia helping Iran with their “power plant?”
cs89 on December 4, 2008 at 2:00 PM
I’m sure they would enjoy the oil prices. However, they do have some wierd issues with Israel.
Annoyingly, every time I try to post this as a link it goes into nowhere and my post is gone.
http://www.cria-online.org/5_2.html
Marine_Bio on December 4, 2008 at 2:01 PM
Anti-semitism has always been a part of Russian culture. Stalin was planning a massive pogrom against Jews before he died, that was thankfully never enacted.
And the Doctor’s Plot . . . does Putin aspire to be another Stalin? Maybe that’s why he wants Georgia back.
NoDonkey on December 4, 2008 at 2:03 PM
Wow, there’s a large lag. I saw NoDonkey’s 2:03 post a full 5 minutes before my 2:01 repeat post. I wonder if it is tied to something in the link I tried to use?
Anyway,
Yeah, the SCOTUS post has gone from mildly amusing to really repetitive and boring.
:(
Marine_Bio on December 4, 2008 at 2:12 PM
Ain’t gonna happen. We’ve seen these predictions for the last 3 years.
Hilts on December 4, 2008 at 2:50 PM
Don’t forget that Ehud Olmerde the worst piece of excrement is still in the Prime Minister’s office The less said about Israeli plans (non plans) the better.
Hilts on December 4, 2008 at 2:55 PM
Destory the Wehrmacht’s tanks but leave the Nazi leadership in Berlin? No thanks. Remove the mullahs, by whatever means necessary. Asap. It’s 30 years overdue.
JDPerren on December 4, 2008 at 3:08 PM
Israel doesn’t need the IFF codes unless Iraqis are operating Air Defense these days in Iraq – which I doubt.
US forces will not shoot down Israeli fighters … codes or not.
The Israelis should overfly Iraq, and announce their intentions to the US forces just before entering Iraqi air space. There is no way that any General … or President Bush, will order a shootdown.
HondaV65 on December 4, 2008 at 4:17 PM
Israel is synonymous with unilateral.
Shame on us.
locomotivebreath1901 on December 4, 2008 at 4:24 PM
If you take just one of Iran’s nuclear reactor,Bushehr.
It is an industrial city with one million residents,70.000 foreign engineers.
It also has a large gas field.
If Israel bombs a fully fueled nuclear power plant and with enrichment facilities.
Containment will be breached.
Radioactive elements will be released into the enviroment causing horrific deaths for families in the vicinity.
Contamination would cover Afghanistan,Pakistan and India.
Reactors that are built underground would need powerful explosives maybe nuclear warheads.
The explosions will blow the contamination high into the atmosphere,where that would go isn’t clear.
The fallout would have a half life of 700 million years,it
will make it’s way towards America.
By claiming that Israel successfully bombed Syria and Iraq’s reactor’s with no ill effect and it was easy. There is a difference.
They were construction sites,not loaded reactors.
How many troops and bases does the u.s have in the region?
mags on December 4, 2008 at 4:30 PM
I only have 2 words: BOMBS AWAY!
Noneya on December 4, 2008 at 4:51 PM
Shouldn’t have let them get so far then, should we? Now you’re saying we shouldn’t do anything because of the horrific consequences of acting too late. Still looks better to me than actually letting them get away with it, IMHO. After all, most of the first casualties will be Iranian.
Fortunata on December 4, 2008 at 5:05 PM
Bombing Iran will backfire. The Iranians will rally around the leadership and make things difficult for our allies.
lexhamfox on December 4, 2008 at 5:16 PM
The problem is that we and the Israelis have let Iranian nuclear development go on for too long already. Taking out the nuclear reactors and centrifuge sites without unacceptable civilian damage will be enormously difficult, even with bunker busters and pinpoint bombing. And the chances of failure are high—remember ’shock and awe’, when we attempted to nail Saddam in his palaces and bunkers? We kept missing.
I suspect a little disinformation here. I don’t doubt the Israelis have something up their sleeve, but a long-distance attack with fighter-bombers may not be it.
What then? Special forces raids in the dead of night? Just getting into the sites would be a feat. Suitcase nukes smuggled in? Too risky.
Do the Israelis have cruise missiles? If so, what is their range?
Time for some creative planning. Maybe strike from within: you work with a local anti-mullah underground, infiltrate the key nuclear sites and key infrastructure facilities, and coordinate a strike on those with an attack on the leadership. Is there a viable underground ready and willing to help?
The Russians are a puzzle. They encourage the Iranians, doubtless in order to tweak the Americans. But Iran is an Islamist theocracy on Russia’s border. They can’t be happy with the prospect of a nuclear Iran helping Islamist terrorists in all the –’stans on Russia’s south. Does Russia really know where her interests lie? I wouldn’t be surprised if they haven’t booby-trapped the facilities they have given Iran, as a precaution against Iranian adventuring.
MrLynn on December 4, 2008 at 5:22 PM
the Air Force doesn’t just check IFF and then shoot it down if it doesn’t match… the Israeli Air Force could theoretically fly through without the codes.
-
if they flew a non-aggressive formation around sensitive areas, they might be escorted if they did not comply or answer radio calls, their visual confirmation as Allies would deter any confrontation with American Pilots…
-
there’s not very much going on in Iraqi Air Space… in fact I would venture to bet the last air-to-air engagement in Iraqi Air Space was 5 years ago…
Kaptain Amerika on December 4, 2008 at 5:22 PM
Fortuna,
Even your own CIA and government can not find evidence to justify an attack on Iran.
They have a right to develop nuclear fuel,and was co-operating fully until you called them an axis of evil.
How can you de-huminise and call for collective punishment of a nation.
Iran has a historical presence,rich with culture,an ancient civilization full of beauty and artefacts.
It is not camels and desert.These people deserve respect.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pFfHjNximGg
mags on December 4, 2008 at 5:47 PM
Mags at 5:47 pm
“How can you de-huminise and call for collective punishment of a nation.
Iran has a historical presence,rich with culture,an ancient civilization full of beauty and artefacts.
It is not camels and desert.These people deserve respect.”
The Germans produced Beetoven, Kant, Bach, asprin, etc. They were a great people with a long, honorable history. BUT, w;hen they decided to conquer the world and eradicate several groups of people, they lost any claim to respect. The only respect left was to consider the skills of their military when we killed them.
Just because a people have a long history of architecture and arts and love their children, it does not entitle them to respect if they are trying to eradicate another group of people and are actively sewing hate and discontent in the world. The people are the nation. If they wont change the destructive course of their leaders and mullahs, then they inherit the leaders and mullahs fate. RESPECT has nothing to do with it.
I know you! I have seen your type before. You are the guy, who after the shit was kicked out of him by the neighborhood bully, wants to sit down and talk with the bully to find out why the bully hates him. It would never dawn on you to learn how to fight back and defend yourself, (except with the barbed tongue which you really believe like the pen is mightier than the sword).
Old Country Boy on December 4, 2008 at 6:49 PM
So the only thing standing between a world with Iran as a nuclear power is Israel?
I know it is a longshot, but Israel FTW!
SimplyKimberly on December 4, 2008 at 6:59 PM
(No outside food allowed.)
Tzetzes on December 4, 2008 at 7:11 PM
To Mags and Lexham…
Stay in whatever rathole you call home and worry about the Martians invading earth. Iran is luck to still exist as anything other that a glass parking lot. The regime is the people and not some external occupying force that has enslaved the population for nefarious purposes.
dmann on December 4, 2008 at 7:18 PM
“Candygram for Mr. ImAdinnerjacket”!
44Magnum on December 4, 2008 at 7:35 PM
Mags at 5:47 pm
“Even your own CIA and government can not find evidence to justify an attack on Iran.”
All hear the words of Ahmedinejad, the President of Iran, All see Iranian support over the last 30 years for international terrorism.
“They have a right to develop nuclear fuel,and was co-operating fully until you called them an axis of evil.”
Iran has been evading the IAEA, why? Iran intends to develop nuclear weapons. Why?
Why does Iran desire nuclear weapons? To detonate one, maybe several, in American port cities? We, the US, have a better idea: no.
For the past 30 years, absence of Iranian nuclear weapons has rendered them immune to US military strikes. This was the most effective shield the world has ever seen. Now they discard it, Why?
The Iranian Mullahs and government desire dead bodies; very well, let them supply the live ones to be turned into dead ones. Let’s start with the mullahs; the death count might end at 10,000 or so, with only a few buildings destroyed.
“How can you de-huminise and call for collective punishment of a nation.”
Ahmedinejad, the President of Iran, does exactly this. Why? For what reason(s) are his calls legitimate?
The calls to strike Iran and destroy Iran’s nuclear capability are a response to Ahmedinejad’s words and the action of the Iranian mullahs and government of selling tens of thousands of missiles to Hiaballah,
“Iran has a historical presence,rich with culture,an ancient civilization full of beauty and artefacts.”
Interesting. Muslims, particularly Muslim clerics, are known for despising “ancient civilization full of beauty and artefacts”.
“It is not camels and desert.These people deserve respect.”
If “[t]hese people deserve respect” they should show respect, partly to other nations and partly to their own women.
But civilized behavior seems beyond the mullahcracy. It took the funeral of Pope John Paul II to get an Iranian official to publicly talk in civil words to an Israeli.
The thread topic:
The Israelis might strike Iran, and it is not necessary to fly over Iraq or Turkey, or even near US forces to do so. There are a few possibilities that are easily imagined, and they fit the requirements for “surprise”.
I think that a military strike is about a 50%-probability option. I expect to see mysterious fires at certain Iranian facilities first.
After all, with
– so many harsh, flammable, etc., chemicals on-hand,
– lots of electrical power routed and used,
– lots of dust (read up on grain elevators),
– NK technology (known to cause deaths of workers, and therefore disgruntlement),
– vast quantities of spare (and old and unstable) RPG-7s in the area (you never know whrn 50 or so will go off and whack a sensitive building or two),
and
– the relative inexperience of the Iranians
. . . . . . self-inflicted disasters are inevitable.
Arbalest on December 4, 2008 at 7:36 PM
Big deal; they’ve kept producing them (strength in numbers) and our ASW capabilities have not been kept up to par, a situation that won’t be bettered when that Marxist mongrel takes office.
Dark-Star on December 4, 2008 at 7:42 PM
Unfortunately, George W. Bush is too much of a gentleman to launch an unprovoked attack on Iran with only a month or so left in his presidency; why saddle the new guy with a new war?
On the other hand, a few incursions across the Iraqi border into Iran might stimulate the Iranians into going after one of our ships, and that would be a convenient excuse for a joint US-Israeli military strike at the Iranian military, infrastructure, and (by the way) nuclear facilities.
After all, a state of war has technically existed between the US and Iran ever since they seized our embassy in 1979, aggravated of course by Iranian sponsorship of Islamist terrorism and proxy attacks on our troops in Iraq. The pusillanimous James Earl Carter hid in the White House instead of taking care of the situation in 1979, but it’s never too late.
W could think of it as an inauguration present for Obambi: “Here’s Iran, all nicely tied up, with a bow, and no nukes. Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and have a nice four years”—George.
MrLynn on December 4, 2008 at 8:06 PM
In the Bhagavad Gita, Arjuna tells Krishna he doesn’t want to fight his kinfolk and teachers and mentors to win the kingdom. Krishna reminds him about duty, and the difference between the material world and the transcendent, and the fallacy of lamentation.
Imo, sometimes George Bush got in the way of the President.
JiangxiDad on December 4, 2008 at 8:40 PM
Ed, all of the scenarios you speculated upon assume that the Israeli strike would be conventional. If they were to take the approach of not surgically destroying Iranian weapons development facilities, but of making Iran cease to function as a state altogether, their strategic concerns regarding that (former) nation would have been achieved.
That said, the polical repercussions would obviously be enormous. I don’t know if there’s any realistic chance the Israelis would take such a gamble, especially as it’s most likely Iran’s Israel-oriented nuclear rhetorical is likely just that, and in reality the Mullahs would use their nuclear arsenal much as other nations have–to threaten for strategic effect (which would still be bad news for us). However, I suspect it is something within Israel’s capability and probably shouldn’t be discounted out-of-hand.
Blacklake on December 4, 2008 at 8:41 PM
Might as well help Israel level Iran if they are going to attack them. the US will get the blame anyway. If Israel/US attacks Iran we might as well destroy them. Make sure they are never a problem again.
lavell12 on December 4, 2008 at 9:09 PM
I don’t think turning Iran into glass is necessary, though it is not impossible that Israel may see a targeted atomic attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities as the only option. Even with tactical nukes, the damage and loss of life would be very high.
But if we can speculate about it, so can the Israelis. They are such a tiny nation that this might ultimately be their only chance (three nuclear strikes from Iran would effectively destroy Israel), but my guess is that they would use it only in extremis.
What happens to Iran will depend to a large extent on the Iranian people: how much longer will they tolerate the autocratic rule of the mullahs? Is there a viable alternative developing? Is there an underground? Faint hope, I know, in the short run. But if so, we want to encourage it, and help make its emergence possible.
MrLynn on December 4, 2008 at 9:47 PM
Without us cooperation, eh?
I’ll go.
vermin on December 4, 2008 at 11:23 PM
As much as I would love to see Israel kick butt! That wouldn’t be good right now. Would make it more dangerous for our Military. Might be wrong. That is how I see it. Iran is very populated. Not all of the People like what is going on. But, if Israel must, then who could stop them? This is not good right now.
sheebe on December 5, 2008 at 12:31 AM
Ed,
The exception would be if the US used precision, penetrator, bunker-busting nuclear weapons. I admit that their use is a longshot, but if they were the mission would not be one…
Or, how about using neutron bombs in those warheads..? None of the fallout or radiation signature of conventional nukes, but it does kill all of the people…And makes it hard to point fingers…
If we wanted to take out Iran’s nukie program as much as O! wanted to win-by whatever means necessary-then rest assured that we could do so…
The question really is; could we live with the oil price shock that would follow afterward..?
RocketmanBob on December 5, 2008 at 1:53 AM
Besides,
The real danger of the Iranian nukes are that they get smuggled into Syria or Lebanon. Places from which they could easily be unleashed on Israel by employing a high-tech Toyota delivery system…
RocketmanBob on December 5, 2008 at 1:55 AM
I predict WWIII will run from late 2009 to 2019.
We need to get some sh!t sorted.
TheSitRep on December 5, 2008 at 7:45 AM
Egyptian Cleric to Obama: Convert to Islam.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/32080_Egyptian_Cleric_to_Obama-_Convert_to_Islam/comments/#ctop
he obviously didn’t get the email about the election of The One and all humanity becoming one big Woodstock!
Mercy4Me on December 5, 2008 at 8:02 AM
Diffcult, Yes. Impossible, No. General public ignorance of military control and targeting capability might lead one to think it impossible. US forces would never fire on Israeli forces, except purely by mistake or if fired upon first. Last minute command/control contact would occur that would hinder this type of mistake. Plus, Israel pretty much already knows our capabilities and would take steps to exploit them thereby giving the US an excuse for not being getting involved and/or responsible in the initial phases of operations.
Lawrence on December 5, 2008 at 11:19 AM
The problem is that, without the codes, how would air defense operators know the aircraft are Israeli? What if they were Syrian? That determination that the unresponsive bogeys in question weren’t a threat would have to take place at a very high level, and without at least giving substantial forewarning (enough so that word would have time to trickle far enough down from the Pentagon to affect rules of engagement in the field), the Israeli pilots would run a very serious risk of being presumed hostile and finding themselves on the receiving end of some Patriots and AMRAAMs. And that’s obviously a scenario I expect everyone involved would seriously wish to avoid.
Blacklake on December 5, 2008 at 11:24 AM
Hopefully they won’t need to use airstrikes.
The weak spot in the Iranian atomic program are a dearth of trained techs and physicists.
Killing them is a shotgun job.
Replacing them takes half a generation of time.
Kristopher on December 5, 2008 at 1:05 PM
I don’t blame Israel one bit. I pray to God if that time ever comes whoever is president will have some ball$. But I doubt it.
Our interests should come first before an ally, but not at the expense of their survival.
Iran wants to wipe them off the map. And they will try if we stand back & do nothing. I’m betting Israel will be able to kick a$$. They have a lot more on their side than just ability.
As far as Russia-they will support whoever hates us the most, secretly or surreptitiously, of course.
Russia never got over the Cold War. They’re trying to make a come back.
Badger40 on December 5, 2008 at 2:22 PM
That was an interesting read….thanks
jerrytbg on December 5, 2008 at 7:00 PM
poopy
SgtSVJones on December 6, 2008 at 3:44 AM
To respond to Old countryboy and Arbalest,
Firstly any cooperation for Israel to use Iraqi airspace to attack Iran should be made by the Iraqi government and people,you know that democracy you keep telling me about.
Iranian,30 years of terrorism? You can not ignore US interference in that country.
Overthrowing the popular democratic leader of Iran because he wanted to nationalise THEIR oil.
Reinstalled the Shah a brutal dictator,trained their brutal police.
During this time there wasn’t any democracy.Lavishly spent the countries money on his own.
This led to the uprising,the hostages were taken in case the U.S tried to bring the Shah back because that had happened before.
Your country funded and supported Saddam to invade ,which prevented Iran growing economically.
Chemical weapons under U.S approval were used against civilian population.
You shot down a civilian plane killing hundreds including 66 children,the seventh worse aviation incident.
On 9/11 The Iranians held candlelit vigils ,and marches saying death to terrorists.
It was condemned by the religious leaders, even dropped the ‘death to America’ chants at Friday prays,which sounds daft but it was a huge shift in policy towards the U.S.
They cooperated in Afghanistan,it was them that persuaded the northern alliance to cooperate,encouraged voting and helped Karzai.If U.S soldiers were shot down and landed in Iran they would be returned.
Look up The Grand Bargain that was nearly done with the Reform Party.
When Bush called them an axis of evil, he humiliated these reformers,this led to Ahmadinejad being voted leader.
U.S backed terrorist group MEK has killed many including their president and prime minister.
If you want all Iranians annihilated the least you can do is get the facts.
Ahmadinejad did not threaten to ‘wipe Israel off the map’,
He said the regime occupying Jerusalem will disappear from the pages of time.
Zionism,when we wanted to get rid of communism in USSR it didn’t mean that we wanted to kill all Russians. It’s the ideology.
Apartheid in the South Africa has vanished from the page of time.
What the Holocaust denial people are saying,is let there be more research,why is it against the law to question the numbers that were killed or anything about what happened.
Some Americans want another inquiry into 9/11.Don’t they believe the CIA and George Bush did it?
Who killed JFK ? I am in the U.K and the next person who tells me,Prince Philip had Princess Diana killed because she was pregnant with a Muslims’ baby i will hit.
Also, the holocaust is used to condone any actions by Israel.
They say that if it did happen as told,then what did the Palestinian people have to do with it?
Why do they have to be thrown out of their homes for something carried out Europe.
The AIEA, to whom Iran is a member(unlike Israel that has hundreds of fourth and fifth generation nukes undeclared)
has been calling on Israel/U.S to share the information with them that shows Iran has nukes.
Israel has violated more U.N resolutions than any other country with impunity.It is still on occupied land.It has bombed Syria and Lebanon in the last couple years.
Who is the aggressor?
mags on December 6, 2008 at 1:10 PM
The world watches as Acmademidum threatens to wipe Israel off the face of the map while touting Iran’s nuclear bomb building process. Is anyone surprised about Israel’s response. How would you respond? Negotiate? Now that’s been working well over there for at least fifty years.
Ernest on December 6, 2008 at 1:52 PM
“Apartheid in the South Africa has vanished from the page of time.”
Please explain oh Guru.
“the regime occupying Jerusalem will disappear from the pages of time” sure sounds like a threat to me or am I just not appreciative of some cheap poetry?
Ernest on December 6, 2008 at 2:01 PM
Obama doesn’t have one, much less two so the world can now do as it wishes to the USA. It was a great ride while it lasted. Thank you Democrats, you’ve made us all so proud.
Ernest on December 6, 2008 at 2:11 PM
Ernst,
You are calling for regime change in Iran,after getting regime change in Iraq.
It’s the same,they are saying to the Palestinians,hang in there ,who would of believed that the Shah’s regime would be history.
He was quoting the Ayatollah Khomeini in the 80’s(when he said it nobody said it was a threat.)
He said that who would of believed that the Soviet Union would end. Even Saddam ,who would of thought he would be taken down.
There is a difference between zionism and Jewish people.
http://uk.youtube.com/results?search_query=wipe+israel+off+the+map&search_type=&aq=0&oq=wipe+israe
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NnA75S6M4Nk
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4mScWWtRfGQ&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pFfHjNximGg
Zionism as an ideology and their action’s will pass.The way to do this is by giving Palestinians a free referendum to be able to have self determination.
What ever they decide will be abide by,democracy.
Ernst the Iranian people are one of the most pro America/West in the region.
70% under 40,and 70% literate,they want change in their country but it has to be from the ground up.
Persian are proud people with a historical presence and influence.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pFfHjNximGg
Please watch the clips,i genuinely want to know your thoughts.
mags on December 6, 2008 at 5:20 PM
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