Israel prepares for Iranian strike without US cooperation
posted at 8:33 am on December 4, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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According to the Jerusalem Post, Israel has begun planning for a strike on Iran’s presumed nuclear-research sites without cooperation from the US. Sources tell the JP that they’d prefer to partner with the Americans, but that they have to plan for the contingency of refusal:
The IDF is drawing up options for a strike on Iranian nuclear facilities that do not include coordination with the United States, The Jerusalem Post has learned.
While its preference is to coordinate with the US, defense officials have said Israel is preparing a wide range of options for such an operation.
“It is always better to coordinate,” one top Defense Ministry official explained last week. “But we are also preparing options that do not include coordination.”
Israeli officials have said it would be difficult, but not impossible, to launch a strike against Iran without receiving codes from the US Air Force, which controls Iraqi airspace. Israel also asked for the codes in 1991 during the First Gulf War, but the US refused.
According to the Post, Israel has twice asked for a green light and the codes, and the Bush administration has refused. The US has installed missile-defense systems and deployed our own people to man them. The Post notes that our intentions serve both Israel and ourselves, as it allows the US to watch Israel for any signs of military action.
Israel would have a difficult but not impossible task in hitting enough sites in Iran to make a difference. The most direct route would take then through Iraqi air space, which would also require the IFF codes to avoid getting attacked by US forces. Otherwise, they’d probably have to fly around the Arabian Peninsula, refueling along the way and making their presence known well ahead of the attack. They’d have to hope that they got the actual nuclear sites, as the Iranians decentralized the program as a result of Israel’s attack on Osirak.
What effect would an attack have on the region? If they violate Iraqi air space to do it, we can kiss our position in Iraq goodbye. The Iranian regime would be immeasurably strengthened in the short run; it’s hard to imagine a more unifying event than an attack from Israel on the Iranian populace. Iran would almost immediately order its proxy armies of Hezbollah and Hamas into action against Israel, touching off a war on the Lebanon border and in Gaza.
Would all of that be worth ridding the world of Iranian nukes? You bet it would — but only if it could completely destroy the Iranian nuclear program. That’s a long shot on the order of hitting the lottery, even with US cooperation.
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If the India massacre wasn’t it, is this the crisis that Joetox Biden prophesied?
jgapinoy on December 4, 2008 at 8:35 AM
Oh that’s just great. Oil prices through the roof again.
lodge on December 4, 2008 at 8:37 AM
Since India is currently boiling angry with Islamofascism, can Israel count on India as an ally? They’ll need more than just US if they attack Iran.
jgapinoy on December 4, 2008 at 8:39 AM
Nah. That stuff will happen after hope-and-changeling swears in.
Guardian on December 4, 2008 at 8:40 AM
Don’t underestimate the military power of Israel when fighting the rag tag Iranians. If I had a nuke to give them I’d launch it myself.
Doppleganker on December 4, 2008 at 8:43 AM
We might as well help them, the Iranians are going to retaliate against US forces in the region anyway in an attempt to draw us in. Attacks on naval forces in the Gulf and shipping in the Straits of Hormuz are likely avenues.
If the Iranians attack US naval forces hat choice do we have but to retaliate?
johnsteele on December 4, 2008 at 8:43 AM
Unfortunately, it’s almost getting to a point where no one will have any other choice than some operation such as this. Everyone has piddle-dinked around, knowing full well that the Iranians were only stalling during the “negotiations” with the EU.
And that was how were were supposed to deal with Sodamn Insane, according to these people.
JamesLee on December 4, 2008 at 8:43 AM
I dunno. Bush seems to be the lamest lame duck ever, & Obamessiah is more eagerly anticipated by most than the real Messiah. If the worst happens, whose press conference will be better attended?
jgapinoy on December 4, 2008 at 8:44 AM
Why deal with a problem when you can talk about it and let it get worse?
/sarc
johnsteele on December 4, 2008 at 8:45 AM
How many hundreds of our troops have Iranian weapons already killed?
jgapinoy on December 4, 2008 at 8:45 AM
Without US cooperation? Ummmm…who paid for all their weapons?
Don’t get me wrong. I would love to see Iran taken to task by someone else, but we’re still footing the bill.
kcluva on December 4, 2008 at 8:46 AM
I think this is one of the things Biden was talking about. However he was also talking about people rising up in the streets. Not sure what that was about, but I can imagine a few very heinous circumstances that would lead to it.
In reality, Israel has no choice, but it is somewhat frustrating that the US isn’t backing this. It isn’t like terrorist attacks will be altered by the US staying out of the fray.
Look at the insanity that Pakistan has devolved towards, realizing that they are a nuclear power. Does that model look very good for Iran?
Marine_Bio on December 4, 2008 at 8:47 AM
Israel will get our co-operation. After it is explained, to the Arab states in detail.
Nothing concerns me less, then Iran and it’s allies at being upset with the U.S.
Every time we have done something like this, there is a bunch of yelling and screaming…then they settle down. They know that their could have been a different target…just ask Kadafi.
And we just have to let Iraq know, that that airspace will also defend them against an attack.
And attack from any other state but Israel is a given, Israel will never invade Iraq.
Time for Iraq to choose sides, freedom or Iran…
right2bright on December 4, 2008 at 8:49 AM
When pigs fly:
Iraq has been under Iranian attack since the US invasion to topple Saddam’s regime. Iraq COULD permit Israel to fly over, make specific demands in return.
Turkey COULD have done the same for us after 9/11 and our determination to combat al-Qaeda in Iraq.
maverick muse on December 4, 2008 at 8:49 AM
Israel maybe the last hope for freedom in the middle east! Heaven knows that Barry wont do a thing to help! In fact the terrorists think that Barry is a friend to their cause.
grapeknutz on December 4, 2008 at 8:51 AM
I say we get some German special forces to solve this problem…you know, our “allies” in Afghanistan who were there for THREE years without a single mission…before going home.
Bush took out oppressive regimes/tyrants in Afghanistan and Iraq–and the world cried about it. He let them take the reigns on “negotiations” with Iran and it failed miserably. And now they blame him. Morons.
Let Israel do what needs to be done.
watchmen on December 4, 2008 at 8:52 AM
Time for Iran to pay the piper. Let’s see if A-jad has anything to say about this, though the left took great pleasure in reminding America he is not the leader of Iran.
Also, let’s see if Mein Fuhrer steps up to the plate and backs Israel, unconditionally, or pulls the ‘Iran is a little country and not a threat’ bull.
Ball’s in your court, Hussein.
madmonkphotog on December 4, 2008 at 8:52 AM
Until we do not exist, IRAN is permanently upset with the USA and Israel whether we act or do nothing. So any factor of upsetting Iran is void of substance.
maverick muse on December 4, 2008 at 8:52 AM
No, if Iran’s nuclear and only nuclear is attacked Iran won’t do anything…the leaders know that they could have just as easy been the target.
Bunch of riots, saber rattling, yelling, U.N. resolutions against Israel(what else is new), moving of troops…then nothing.
right2bright on December 4, 2008 at 8:52 AM
watchmen,
Would those be the fat German soldiers recently headlined as losers incapable of battle @ Drudge?
maverick muse on December 4, 2008 at 8:53 AM
I see it playing this way:
- Israel makes a preemptive strike on Iranian nuclear facilities without our cooperation (They have no choice, Western civilization depend on it and unlike us, they know it)
- Iran responds by winding up Hezbollah and Hamas
- Iran also can’t resist drawing the US into it and attacks US naval forces in the Gulf and the Straits.
If this occurs before January 20 2009 the US responds by obliterating Iranian nuclear facilities, Iranian Army, Air Force and Navy facilities.
If this occurs after January 20, 2009 the US apologizes for having our ships in the way of Iranian missiles and withdraws US forces from the region.
johnsteele on December 4, 2008 at 8:54 AM
All they really need to do is take out the enrichment centrifuges. You can decentralize a program, but each component is still reliant on the next; the centrifuges are pretty key and the most time-consuming to replace (other than the experts themselves).
michaelo on December 4, 2008 at 8:55 AM
“We” should not presume to project Iranian responses based upon Western logic.
maverick muse on December 4, 2008 at 8:55 AM
I disagree. Remember that Russia has a tight relationship with Iran and is helping them with their Nuclear Facility. I don’t think this will end with Iran.
Metaphorically this will be the firing pin pulled from the middle-east grenade.
Marine_Bio on December 4, 2008 at 8:59 AM
That’s very true, that’s why I see their reponse to an attack by Israel as attacking US forces. Their “logic” is sufficiently illogical that they see US as the “real” enemy and will be unable to resist the urge to attack us despite knowing that doing so will result in a dath blow.
johnsteele on December 4, 2008 at 8:59 AM
johnsteele
If war is to occur, better initiate it RIGHT from the start.
GWBush is NOW the absolute right man for that job, having learned (God willing) the lessons from mistaken moves.
So, all said and done, does GW (still) care? Time will tell.
God help us.
maverick muse on December 4, 2008 at 9:00 AM
I think your metaphor has merit. My assessment went no further than the Israel/Iran/US connection. I expect that it will ignite more trouble. But I don’t see a general war, a US-Russian confrontation or even a generalized Middle East conflict. Iran has no friends in the region and just about everyoen will be happy to see Iran with a bloody nose. Of course they are also going to be happy to see us get banged up a bit in the process as long as it doesn’t spill over into their little harems.
johnsteele on December 4, 2008 at 9:02 AM
johnsteele 8:59 just so.
However, Marine_Bio is looking yet at the larger picture.
maverick muse on December 4, 2008 at 9:03 AM
GWB still cares, but his legacy is in such tatters that he is practically immobile. the financial crisis took whatever remaining wind there was in his sails. but maybe i’m wrong.
the war on “tara” was/is the central theme of his administration.
kelley in virginia on December 4, 2008 at 9:04 AM
Muse…These would be the German soldiers I was talking about
Even when our “allies” are with us, the United States always does the heavy lifting. Poland, the Brits (when they’re not cutting deals with Sadr), and Australia are about the only ones who are worth having around.
watchmen on December 4, 2008 at 9:05 AM
As much fun as it is to see the IAF flying to Greece and back to play with their defense systems (same as the ones in Iran, oddly), I think the Israelis have lots of plans up their crafty little sleeves. Yes, the air attack worked with the Egyptians, the Syrians, the Iraqis, and the Syrians again, but I suspect the Israelis have some other kind of contingency plan going down.
The IAF is one of the best air forces in the world and could certainly pull this off.
I think the Israelis think long and hard before pulling any of this missions off. They know that they are the top on a powder keg and they have no intention of starting something they can’t win. Iran is probably always on the table, but I think the Israelis are trying to balance what is best for them and what won’t start off World War IV.
Of course, you never know what them wacky Iranians will do themselves….
mjk on December 4, 2008 at 9:08 AM
I’m calling my Senators to demand that they tell the Administration to help Israel. It’s something we can all do.
thuja on December 4, 2008 at 9:10 AM
Medvedev and Putin are the huge threat. Socialist Russia’s global ploys are more secure than our democratic alliances now. Russia’s allies are itching to fight the US and can’t wait. Our allies are as tepid and ineffective as the UN; and they consider their UN membership/status more compelling than NATO or anything else regarding alliance ties to the USA.
Iran will play Russia while Russia plays Iran.
Our current instabilities are their dream come true.
OPPORTUNITY.
maverick muse on December 4, 2008 at 9:13 AM
hasn’t this “israel ready to take out iranian nukes” headline been in the papers for a long time? does anyone think the israelis have reached that “critical mass” stage now?
kelley in virginia on December 4, 2008 at 9:14 AM
and i would call my senators & congressman, but they are all bambi supporters. they don’t care what happens to anything or anybody except what bambi says is relevant.
kelley in virginia on December 4, 2008 at 9:16 AM
Russia has some mighty big dreams.
Marine_Bio on December 4, 2008 at 9:16 AM
“Footing the bill” so to speak isn’t enough. Weapons are one thing. Logistical and strategic support, i.e. intelligence, and any other support short of being the sharp end of the spear, is what Israel needs to have at least a shot at pulling this off.
J.J. Sefton on December 4, 2008 at 9:17 AM
With what, exactly? Their pathetic little speed boat “navy”? C-802 anti-ship missiles? 30 years old. http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsurf/articles/20060829.aspx
Even if we don’t go in on it with the Israelis, they’ll certainly tip us off so our ships can go on high alert in anticipation of the whacky Iranian response.
NoDonkey on December 4, 2008 at 9:17 AM
Israel’s prospects for taking out ALL facilities are limited.
However, I imagine they are working to identify and target the prominent scientists. Even to target them simultaneously in the event of an air strike.
No single strike will do. It will take a sustained effort, and broader targets. But the scientist are the key. They can be taken out over a period of months after a primary strike.
Agrippa2k on December 4, 2008 at 9:19 AM
Whatever happens viv-a-vis Iran, I think that the last thing we should worry about is the price of oil. If the West allows itself to be neutered because of inconvenience, then it deserves no success.
OldEnglish on December 4, 2008 at 9:20 AM
The IAF is certainly one of the best in the world but that mission would be a stretch for anyone, anyone who didn’t have air and naval assets in the immediate area certainly :-)
The problem the Israelis have is that they have to provide both a potent strike force and significant force protection in the same strike package over a great distance. And they likely only get one shot at it.
The US on the other hand has the resources in the region to take out Iranian air defenses and then, essentially at our leisure, take out the nuclear facilities — and the Iranian/IRGC ground force facilities along with Iranian naval facilities along the way.
johnsteele on December 4, 2008 at 9:21 AM
US cooperation = flying through Iraqi airspace
I believe, as part of the SOFA agreement, the Iraqis have full control over their airspace. By allowing Israel flyover rights, we would be violating our own agreement with Iraq.
BohicaTwentyTwo on December 4, 2008 at 9:22 AM
Just wait till Hopeychange gets his hands on these Iranians. Whoa boy!
Mojave Mark on December 4, 2008 at 9:23 AM
I didn’t say they would be successful, only that they could not resist trying to draw us in. The result for them will be catastrophic but they don’t think the way we do.
johnsteele on December 4, 2008 at 9:24 AM
I think what Biden was talking about was Barry declaring war on Israel in response. BTW, way to go Post, for broadcasting this – many of us knew it would happen if McCain lost, but its better to keep quiet until the bombs have dropped.
Vashta.Nerada on December 4, 2008 at 9:24 AM
Yep, and the best Israeli option for an air strike stages through Georgia… and the Israeli’s were helping to build 2 airfields there prior to Russia puntitive expedition into Georgia…
Not sure where that all stands now… but I would bet that Russia is watching those airfields, and will strike if there is a large amount of Israeli aircraft suddenly there…
Oh, and Russia also needs the price of oil to escalate… their economy is in the tank as well, so an international incident would help.
Key is that I don’t think anyone pulls the trigger until after Barry is in office… or there is more chaos in America.
Romeo13 on December 4, 2008 at 9:24 AM
This is a case of the less said the better as far as information / speculation goes. The Jerusalem Post probably should not have posted the article. There is nothing like telegraphing your military plans. The only thing missing is Geraldo drawing a map in the sand explaining the different scenarios
Guest1.1 on December 4, 2008 at 9:24 AM
No it won’t at least eventually…
And
And
If God is to be spurned like the atheists are doing and His Word discredited, how come Ezekiel is sounding like today’s headlines? Only we know the end from the beginning….
Christian Conservative on December 4, 2008 at 9:25 AM
Yeah, he’ll hope them to death; I know he already has done to me.
johnsteele on December 4, 2008 at 9:25 AM
Screw Iraq.
Blake on December 4, 2008 at 9:26 AM
I find it hard to believe that we wouldn’t cooperate. You can’t go and put that on the front page of any paper in that region and not have the Iraqi people revolt.
It will be interesting to see the Big O make a choice between siding with Israel or Iran, he can’t side with both.
moonsbreath on December 4, 2008 at 9:27 AM
So to be not misconstrued as elitist (I wasn’t trying to say only Christians/Jews know), last sentence should read, Except Ezekiel tells us the end from the beginning…
Christian Conservative on December 4, 2008 at 9:28 AM
He’ll vote “Present” on this one.
johnsteele on December 4, 2008 at 9:31 AM
yes, john steele, i am afraid you are right & that the One will vote “present”. what a wimp.
kelley in virginia on December 4, 2008 at 9:33 AM
WATCHMEN re: German military
Take their present (lack of) performance in Afghanistan as (non-participant) part of the NATO effort. Germany sabotages.
Historically since its 19th Century unification, Germany does not ally. Don’t presume to point to Italy or Hungary during WWI and WWII. Germany did not ally with anyone as the USA does.
For Germany to be a member of NATO is ridiculous, as they failed their initiation rite of passage in Afghanistan.
As per post WWII alliances, it is imperative to secure exactly what Japan is up to these days regarding military, specifically regarding threats from Communists and terrorists.
When China pulls the credit on the USA in coordination with the military aggression from global Communist forces in coordination with Islamofascists, who stands by the USA?
Never Germany.
Never France.
These nations are too self centered.
Please don’t reference our Revolution, because the French murdered their King and aristocracy, all who helped us only in order to hurt Britain, not because they cared about us. Once in battle with Britain AGAIN, France under Napoleon viciously engaged in piracy of all American enterprise killing our merchants and marines and enslaving all Americans kidnapped.
I question Japan’s nature as they have never truly allied militarily in the past, though they had a truce within the WWII Axis of Powers. Japan remains aloof and self centered on the record to date.
Yes, Socialism has perverted those of our traditional allies including Canada, Britain, and Nordic Europe.
The wild bunch and the wild west of Australia and America remain tight.
And America had best ally strong support with/from INDIA.
maverick muse on December 4, 2008 at 9:37 AM
Don’t worry people. Israel probably won’t go through Iraq. They’ll probably come from the north, aka Georgia.
Lance Murdock on December 4, 2008 at 9:37 AM
I thought Russia took out the airfield that would have been of most use for that purpose when they invaded Georgia.
Marine_Bio on December 4, 2008 at 9:39 AM
Just cripple their their refining capacity. Iran will disintegrate from within.
shaken on December 4, 2008 at 9:40 AM
Romeo13 on December 4, 2008 at 9:24 AM
Yes.
We have that announcement/PROMISE on record from Biden.
maverick muse on December 4, 2008 at 9:41 AM
Hurrah. We’re freaking bankrupt – we can’t afford to get any more involved. It is time for Israel to stand on her own two feet anyway. If they want to be a sovereign nation then they should act like one.
angelat0763 on December 4, 2008 at 9:42 AM
I always assumed Biden’s warning and request for assistance was directed at the American Jewish community. Biden was telling them that the US wouldn’t back Israel, but to trust that it was all for the best.
As for the J-Post article, I think it’s a response and warning to Obama and Biden, and not some kind of NY Times style traitorous leak.
JiangxiDad on December 4, 2008 at 9:42 AM
I understand the sentiment. But remember, Israel’s enemies are armed from abroad as well.
JiangxiDad on December 4, 2008 at 9:44 AM
Read between the lines…. information is disinformation. Everyone expects the inevitable (and appropriate) response from Israel. Regardless, we will all be surprised when it actually happens. Did the U.S. actually “refuse” to work with Israel? The “Press” certainly thinks so. I know one thing with relative certainty: The mad mullahs are not even going to know what hit them. What I truly love about the Israeli military is their ability to fake you out and then totally punch you out! When’s the last time the State of Israel was conquered in modern times? Anyone? Anyone? Those who do not stand with Israel face a fate worse than death!
HomeoftheBrave on December 4, 2008 at 9:44 AM
I’m sure those have been repaired, bigger problem is that Russia moves Surface to Surface Missles into the breakaway regions… well within range of those airfields.
Any military buildup there and Russia WILL strike… they will say the buildup is against them… and they are just defending their borders…
Romeo13 on December 4, 2008 at 9:44 AM
I’m not sure what you base that on. I am sure they would not assume the risk without a reasonable chance of success. Besides you don’t have to hit the sites necessarily. You can destroy their infrastructure until it hurts so bad they give it up. Also those centrifuges don’t run on Joo hate alone. They need power. Cut the power and no more enrichment.
ronsfi on December 4, 2008 at 9:45 AM
very true. whether Israel hits iran first or not, war is inevitable…
and we can all rest easy knowing the One is our leader *smirk*
its gonna be a wild ride!!
right4life on December 4, 2008 at 9:46 AM
I know what you’re saying. Personally I’ve been waiting for Isaiah 17:1 to happen any day now, given the tensions between Syria and Israel. However, I think that the attack of Iran could easily be a piece of what will cause the event in Zechariah 12:2.
I don’t remember which translation it was, but I think it is better described as a cup that drunkens the surrounding people.
Marine_Bio on December 4, 2008 at 9:47 AM
Iran may not have “friends” in the region, but they are Muslims. And with Muslims (just like families) if you pick on one, you’re picking on all. The people in that region will choose Iran any day of the week over the US and Israel.
PLUS, Russian navy’s in Venezuela. NOT GOOD under any circumstance. You can bet for every ship there’s at least two subs along with them. I’ve gotta believe US subs are in the area too. They have to be.
IMO the axis of evil is A-jad, Chavez, and Putin (who is definitely calling the shots for Russia.) I don’t believe for a second that China wishes ill toward the Americans. They need us too badly. They have a good taste of what a good American economy will do for them. North Korea – sabre rattling.
Oink on December 4, 2008 at 9:50 AM
Very good point on the Russian Navy, and it is part of why I believe this is will be a real mess. The only point I would disagree with would be China, but we’ll have to see what happens.
My bet is that as our economy tanks, they’ll be less inclined to believe they need to play nice with us, remember they are holding most of the US markers. They just might discover the reality that they could be a phenomenal enforcer for repayment of debts owed to them.
Marine_Bio on December 4, 2008 at 9:58 AM
FRANCE vs. USA
Since our banking system was finally established by our 18th Century Founders, the USA was on the gold standard, as was Europe (”the world” to us then).
For 200 years, we were on the gold standard during which time the price of gold was stable around $26./ounce. At the conclusion of WWII, it was decided by all to base standards on the US Dollar. All of the gold standard economic stability was ruined decades following WWII when DeGaul brought all of the dollars France possessed to Nixon/USA and demanded all of the gold in trade for the paper currency. Nixon “bought” all of the American currency from DeGaul’s France with gold from our national reserve, after which he declared that the USA is no longer backing our currency with gold. And that was the end of the gold standard as I understand it. Since then, we’ve driven ourselves with paper money and more recently with loans from Communist China. LUNACY.
Long story short, France has yet to prove alliance with the USA as their dealings with us to date have proven a record of sabotage.
It isn’t as though there are no good French people. But their successive governments have always been more self-centered than ours has been. The more we find ourselves replicating France, the worse we become, imo.
maverick muse on December 4, 2008 at 9:58 AM
If the airfield was damaged, I’m sure Israel and Georgia have already begun repairing it.
Lance Murdock on December 4, 2008 at 10:01 AM
Yeah, that makes sense. Politics of the region are very messy, which is why I was very glad we hadn’t admitted Georgia into the UN.
Marine_Bio on December 4, 2008 at 10:02 AM
D’Oh – BrainF*rt. NATO.
Marine_Bio on December 4, 2008 at 10:04 AM
They can shoot at us and then we have every right to destroy their radar sites, their tin pot “navy” and everything else we feel like destroying.
And as far as Russian ships being in Venezuela? Better to monitor them. The Ruskies know enough about the balance of naval power to know that their entire fleet will be sittingg on the bottom of the ocean if the mess with the US Navy.
NoDonkey on December 4, 2008 at 10:12 AM
I wasn’t aware that there was an alternative.
pussum207 on December 4, 2008 at 10:15 AM
It would be cool if when Israel does wage all out war against Iran,and Iran blocks the straight of Hormuz and oil still goes to 15 dollars barrel.
TheSitRep on December 4, 2008 at 10:18 AM
Are your serious? I’m guessing you missed the little muscle flexing display that turned around US warships from going to the aid of Georgia when Russia invaded? They have NO FEAR of the US Military, because they are NOT WEAK.
I would consider it to be more of a draw at best. The Russian Navy never stopped producing submarines, which is an offensive weapon. Many were produced for sale, but many more were retained. Why retain large numbers of the offensive weapon? One quiet submarine equalizes a seapower conflict, with the US aircraft carriers being the largest sitting duck.
Marine_Bio on December 4, 2008 at 10:21 AM
I suspect that our missiles would miss the Israeli planes and land by mistake in Iran. We, of course, would apologize profusely.
Then our aim would improve greatly when the Iranian planes and missiles were headed the other way.
faraway on December 4, 2008 at 10:21 AM
About time!
I’m sure in one way or another while President George Bush is in office, America will have Israel’s back.
Hussein on the other hand,will leave Israel for the dogs!
christene on December 4, 2008 at 10:25 AM
Even setting it back five to ten years would be worthwhile, but I have to wonder how accessible the crucial facilities are to air and missile attack, unless we start using some of these cutting-edge bunker-buster weapons I’ve been reading about. More likely, it would take commando boots on the ground to do the job right –assuming we know where everything is– by both wrecking facilities and killing the scientists.
I still think an attack on Iran would have a far larger chance of failure than of success, even if we participated. It should not be attempted until we exhausted other strategies, such as economic warfare and assistance to the political opposition in Iran. (It’s there, it’s large, and it wants our help.) Trouble is, I see no will in Bush or Obama to do just that.
irishspy on December 4, 2008 at 10:27 AM
As far as America is concerned, “all of that” just means NOT SHOOTING DOWN ISRAELI PLANES!
So, yeah, I say we make the supreme sacrifice here and take the muzzle off of the only country in that whole part of th world that’s not certifiably insane.
logis on December 4, 2008 at 10:35 AM
Don’t worry once Israel destabilizes the region with the attack and Pakistan becomes ultimately becomes untenable as the destabilization dominos throughout the region, that “war of civilizations” that Kristol wanted will be a reality.
LevStrauss on December 4, 2008 at 10:36 AM
Israel is the only sane country in the West. Every other Western country exists in Bizarro-world.
When your very existance is at stake, hoping isn’t enough.
Godspeed to Israel.
notagool on December 4, 2008 at 10:36 AM
“Would all of that be worth ridding the world of Iranian nukes? You bet it would — but only if it could completely destroy the Iranian nuclear program”
Even a significant delay would be worth it. If you care about the future of Israel, that is. I suspect that the Israelis do.
Which is why it would have been better for the U.S. to do something; less chance for escalation.
exhelodrvr on December 4, 2008 at 10:39 AM
Which is why it would have been better for the U.S. to do something; less chance for escalation.
exhelodrvr on December 4, 2008 at 10:39 AM
cs89 on December 4, 2008 at 10:51 AM
Oops, reversed the quote thingy.
cs89 on December 4, 2008 at 10:51 AM
Just be certain Russia stays out of it, and go for it, but let’s not put it on Drudge or anything. gawd.
Prediction? Me being a common citizen with an intuition, I’d suspect after xmas and before Bommie’s swearing in, presuming the election results are certified with him being winner. Isreal would be a damn fool to sit and let them develop a weapon. Wipe out that jerk of an Iranian leader while your at it and let them put in someone who isn’t thriving on hatred and plays well with others. You’d think that a-hole would learn from Saddams demise. Not sure if Saddam would have joined in aiding Isreal, and maybe thats one reason he’s gone since Iran has been set on doing this for quite some time .
johnnyU on December 4, 2008 at 10:57 AM
Doubt it will happen.
Israel will have new elections early next year so nothing going on between now and then. Plus the new Israeli govt. will want some time to think about and see what Obama does.
albill on December 4, 2008 at 11:01 AM
Long odds? …you mean like the Red Sea parting and stuff?
bard on December 4, 2008 at 11:03 AM
Meh..You have to believe the truth of the bible for that one. (I do, but many don’t)
However, there are 20th century examples to point towards as well. There were some fairly amazing things that went on with the Golan Heights during the 6 day war.
Marine_Bio on December 4, 2008 at 11:08 AM
Turn Israel loose. Rock the Casbah.
greggriffith on December 4, 2008 at 11:23 AM
“The Russian Navy never stopped producing submarines, which is an offensive weapon.”
Yes and they were made with the same old Soviet incompetence.
The Typhoon is no match for our Ohio Class.
And no match for our destroyers.
Even the mongoloid KGB hack running Russia realizes this.
NoDonkey on December 4, 2008 at 11:31 AM
Right – the without U.S. cooperation – RIGHT !!!!!!!!!
jake-the-goose on December 4, 2008 at 11:40 AM
There is also the Turkish route. If memory serves, the Turks and Israelis have cooperated on military matters in the recent past.
That said, Israel is going to have to go sooner rather than later. The best cover we can give them in the UN is our veto vote in the UNSecurity Council (intentional sp), and that goes away as soon as Susan Rice shows up in Turtle Bay.
steveegg on December 4, 2008 at 11:41 AM
Good for Israel. One issue I have always had with American foreign policy and particularly with this administration is this belief that what is good for us is not good for others. Israel faces a threat from a country that still has designs of wiping it off the face of the earth. We in the States have this nasty habit of waiting for our enemies to strike first and then go attack whoever we please. I don’t blame the Bush administration for not giving them the codes or for even refusing to cooperate but I also believe Israel has a right to defend itself BEFORE they are attacked.
grdred944 on December 4, 2008 at 11:45 AM
Modern Israel has a pretty good track record on taking out enemies–up until the recent poor performance against the Lebanon based Hizbollah terrorists. The air strike against Sadam’s Osirik reactor and the Entebbe rescue operations were good examples of proper planning and execution.
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I don’t think that lack of IFF codes (secure mode IV) will mean much–modes I, II, and III can be used like commercial airlines do. No U.S. missile battery is going to fire against an aircraft until an attack on our assets occurs–too much fear of “friendly fire” incidents.
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One concern is the possible need for mid air refueling of strike aircraft–does Israel have tanker planes / refueling capabilities? Another is the effectiveness of Israeli bombs and / or air-to-ground missiles to take out a hardened underground target. Can an Israeli nuke penetrate far enough underground to be effective?
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Israel must take this action soon–if their excellent human intelligence determines that the time is now or never. They must not coordinate with the U.S.A.–too many security leaks, fear, lack of will, etc. They can not count on our country at all. I hope they still have the will to survive–they seem to be losing their political will.
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The Iranians have always armed our enemies and are actively destabilizing Lebanon–they will take it over soon. Iran has never had to pay a price for their evil actions–why would they worry now? Western countries have no stomach for a fight. Israel stands alone against the Gaza inspired Hamas and the West Bank PLO terrorists–and are under rocket attack from Lebanon based Hizbollah terrorists. Why not go for the source of the problems–Iran–before Holocaust II is brought on by the mullahs?
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John Bibb
rocketman on December 4, 2008 at 11:48 AM
Dunno if you’ve been paying attention, but the USN surface ASW capability has gone down the tubes the last 16 years. Besides, it would be the Los Angeles/San Juan-class submarines that would be hunting the Typhoons (and the more-numerous Delta IVs, and the Oscar IIs) underwater, not the Ohios.
steveegg on December 4, 2008 at 11:50 AM
Never, EVER underestimate the Israelis.
TheUnrepentantGeek on December 4, 2008 at 11:50 AM
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