I think of it like jihad Fi sabeel illah. Jihad in the way of Allah.
Science fi sabeel illah. Science is accepted as long as it is true to Islam and illah

blatantblue on December 4, 2008 at 11:45 AM

So, just like everything else, science is accepted, as long as it suits Islam’s and Allah’s purpose, which face it, is subject to change depending on what the men of Islam want. What is their conquest of the month?!…

And if you have the time,I’d like a list of those”best elements of the Islamic world”.I can’t think of any right now.

jellybelly on December 4, 2008 at 2:50 AM

Well put: You’re so blinded by hatred, you can’t see anything else but objects of hatred. You’re probably like a lot of others here: In addition to accepting effectively the same interpretation of Islam as the Islamists, and in addition to granting the Islamists’ most fervent wish – to be seen as the true representatives of true Islam – they are so obsessed with what they hate and fear and have read about Islam, that they’ve ceased seeing Muslims as people, and they’ve forgotten how, in both productive ways and negative ways, the vast majority of human beings are not ruled by the strict and narrow precepts of their faiths, certainly not by the strictest and narrowest interpretations of them.
CK MacLeod on December 4, 2008 at 12:29 PM

It’s the Islamic scholars and Imans who preach the strictest and narrowest interpretations of their holy books every where and all the time.If you know of any scholar or iman who does otherwise, name him.
As a human being living on this planet I have more things in common with my fellow men than there is that sets me apart and I know that it’s the things that set us apart from each other that are the cause of problems.
I don’t hate muslems I feel sorry for them.They are trapped in a totalitarian belief system with no easy way out.

Time to nuke Pakistan.

urbancenturion on December 4, 2008 at 1:06 PM

I wish i had a magic wand.

Just go *poof* and have em all go away

The media needs to wake up.

The media needs to be burned at the stake. Let’s bring back the old ways!

And if you have the time,I’d like a list of those”best elements of the Islamic world”.I can’t think of any right now.

jellybelly on December 4, 2008 at 2:50 AM

Well put: You’re so blinded by hatred, you can’t see anything else but objects of hatred. You’re probably like a lot of others here: In addition to accepting effectively the same interpretation of Islam as the Islamists, and in addition to granting the Islamists’ most fervent wish – to be seen as the true representatives of true Islam – they are so obsessed with what they hate and fear and have read about Islam, that they’ve ceased seeing Muslims as people, and they’ve forgotten how, in both productive ways and negative ways, the vast majority of human beings are not ruled by the strict and narrow precepts of their faiths, certainly not by the strictest and narrowest interpretations of them.

Are Muslims inherently less capable than Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, or Jews of respecting their sacred texts and traditions while acknowledging that everything in them can’t be lifted from them raw and applied literally to the lives of human beings on Earth in the modern world?

I wouldn’t deny for a moment that Islam is full of monstrous and dehumanizing belief systems whose purveyors must typically be fought to the death. Sadly, we are undeniably implicated in the perpetuation of these tendencies – not solely responsible, but implicated in countless ways, including most prominently in our shared economic reliance on Middle Eastern oil. To deny that fact is to put yourself outside of all conceivable responsible discussion of the way forward. If you think, further, that the answer is to kill or force the conversion of ca. 1 billion people, or carry on a campaign of defamation and condemnation while fantasizing about endless war, then you represent or are a victim of a monstrous and dehumanizing tendency, too.

To answer your comment in a different way: Read a serious book about the American experience in Iraq or Afghanistan – such as Col. Mansoor’s chronicle of his year in command of the US brigade combat team, BAGHDAD AT SUNRISE. His focus is on military matters, but you can’t read the book without being aware of how many Iraqi Muslims, including deeply religious ones – from the cleaning ladies and the homeless to the students and soldier and police trainees to many Sunni and Shi’a sheiks and imams – were desperate to move out of the Muslim dark ages, and how many of them remained that way even after having been desperately disappointed by us time after time.

At the same time, they are all not backwatered mid east hicks.

Let’s take just the leaders of todays modern Sunni and salafist jihad movement. They are men of science! They are educated and are experts of Islamic jurisprudence and doctrine. I cannot see how this makes Islam anti science.

Perhaps Islam provides a much more narrow role for science, but science, like all other aspects of life for Muslims, is viewed
through the prism of Allah.

I still believe Islam accepts science.

I think of it like jihad Fi sabeel illah. Jihad in the way of Allah.
Science fi sabeel illah. Science is accepted as long as it is true to Islam and illah

Rahm — put Hillary in at State and she will no longer be a burden.
Obama — she’ll have her own kingdom and undermine my foreign policy.
Rahm — what foreign policy? Besides, Barry, everyone will be focused on the economy.
Obama — true. It’s not like Israel is going to bomb Iran without our permission or India and Pakistan will be at the brink of war. What harm can she do? I feel better now, Rahm. Fo shizzle!

SilentWatcher on December 4, 2008 at 9:02 AM

Said it way better than I could.

Islam does not forbid creation or science, in fact it is welcomed. This is seen with Sayyid Qutb, Ayman Al-Zawahiri, the 9/11 hijackers (since many were engineers), Ramzi Yousef, etc., etc.

Sayyid Qutb wrote in his book “Milestones” about his appreciation for Western science and technology, but his disdain for our morality, values, and cultural traditions.

I’m getting to the discussion late as always, but I’ve gotta disagree with this. Islam is against anything that takes away from the word of Allah, they don’t mind using someone else’s technology if it furthers their cause, but they are against anything “Western” that may detract or cause distraction of muslims from hearing and obeying the literal words of Allah. In Robert Spencer’s book ” The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam”, there’s a whole chapter called, ‘How Allah Killed Science’.

You cannot. That is why there are no moderate muslims. To be true to the Prophet, you must be true to His tenant. Convert or kill all infidels. That is the tenant of their “religion”

Does it pay rent?

Oh. The word you’re looking for is “tenet”, which means something else entirely.

The father of modern day Sunni, and more specifically Salafi, militancy, Sayyid Qutb, who also was a direct inspiration for al-Qa’eda, and one of the older members of the Muslim Brotherhood, was all for science, but in the pursuit of Allah and his justice. He wrote in Milestones that he appreciated our technological abilities, but disliked what he saw as our cultural decadence and lack of morals.

The point is, Islam, and many Muslims might not support science in the way you do, or the way we like, but they don’t necessarily have a problem with science, technology, and advancement.

Not every place in the Muslim world is an intolerable shi*thole that has no modern technologies. Too many here picture the foothills of Tora Bora as the entire Middle East.

So many places in the Muslim world, like Algeria, Morocco, Tunsia, Jordan, Egypt, and many other places have modern transport practices, communication practices, storage facilities, etc. They might not be the most wealthy, but they certainly aren’t backwater.

So many terrorists are wealthy and educated, mainly in the sciences. Studies prove this. The idea that Islam and Muslims are anti-science is really just a reflexive attack based on a dislike of Islam (that I share).

Obama’s crawling to them for the next 4 years may be a blessing in disguise: we will see how that emboldens them and maybe in 2012 we can elect a smackdown-oriented leader who can see the barbarian threat for what it is.

As long as the Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone. In fact, they may be featured in articles and films, stereotyped for their colourful uniqueness:
United States — Muslim 1.0%
Australia — Muslim 1.5%
Canada — Muslim 1.9%
China — Muslim 1%-2%
Italy — Muslim 1.5%
Norway — Muslim 1.8%
At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs:
Denmark — Muslim 2%
Germany — Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom — Muslim 2.7%
Spain — Muslim 4%
Thailand — Muslim 4.6%
From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.
They will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves — along with threats for failure to comply.
France — Muslim 8%
Philippines — Muslim 5%
Sweden — Muslim 5%
Switzerland — Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands — Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad &Tobago — Muslim 5.8%
At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islam is not to convert the world but to establish Sharia law over the entire world.
When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions ( Paris –car-burnings). Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats ( Amsterdam – Mohammed cartoons).
Guyana — Muslim 10%
India — Muslim 13.4%
Israel — Muslim 16%
Kenya — Muslim 10%
Russia — Muslim 10-15%
After reaching 20% expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning:
Ethiopia — Muslim 32.8%
At 40% you will find widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks and ongoing militia warfare:
Bosnia — Muslim 40%
Chad — Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon — Muslim 59.7%
From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels:
Albania — Muslim 70%
Malaysia — Muslim 60.4%
Qatar — Muslim 77.5%
Sudan — Muslim 70%
After 80% expect State run ethnic cleansing and genocide:
Bangladesh — Muslim 83%
Egypt — Muslim 90%
Gaza — Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia — Muslim 86.1%
Iran — Muslim 98%
Iraq — Muslim 97%
Jordan — Muslim 92%
Morocco — Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan — Muslim 97%
Palestine — Muslim 99%
Syria — Muslim 90%
Tajikistan — Muslim 90%
Turkey — Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates — Muslim 96%
100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’ — the Islamic House of Peace — there’s supposed to be peace because everybody is a Muslim:
Afghanistan — Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia — Muslim 100%
Somalia — Muslim 100%
Yemen — Muslim 99.9%
Of course, that’s not the case. To satisfy their blood lust, Muslims then start killing each other for a variety of reasons.
http://www.frontline.org.za/books_videos/sti.htm “Slavery, Terrorism and Islam”, Dr. Peter Hammond.

UnderstandingisPower on December 4, 2008 at 12:16 AM

Thanks for the post. I have posted several times, alluding to Islam as the “Borg” having nothing at all to do with religion but instead it is a totalitarian political entity using religion as a burka, I have also mentioned a mythical critical mass where the cancer cell that Islam is becomes metastasized. Your link gives an outline as to what that number may actually be.

The amazing thing based on the stats provided is how little in numbers it takes for an extreme minority to have a readily felt impact. Here in the states Universities are installing “foot baths” for religious purposes. Can you imagine Catholics in today’s day and age, asking and getting holy water fountains strategically placed about campus? It boggles the mind.

Europe remains the canary.