Escape from LA: A few thoughts
posted at 10:38 am on December 3, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Apropos of nothing in particular …
I returned from my semi-vacation in Southern California late last night, having left temperatures in the 70s to arrive in a lightly falling snow and below-freezing temperatures in the Twin Cities. We didn’t get back to the house until around 11 pm last night, and thanks to the time difference didn’t get to sleep until well after midnight. We’re gradually coming to life this morning … gradually.
We both lived in the LA area for most of our lives, and each time we return, we regret leaving it less and less. Our families still live out there, which is why we love visiting, but the area itself seems tired and dingy, especially Los Angeles County. There was a brown haze there for most of our trip, which may have been accentuated by the recent fires, although they were put out a few days before our arrival. The effect was a little depressing.
But I was mostly struck by how little effort California and its counties have put into maintenance. Freeway signs in areas I frequented as a resident have never been repaired or replaced, as an example, and they look old and faded. The buildings look worse. That look permeated most of the LA area, with some brighter spots in Orange County and in the nicer sections of the Valley. This state has a budget of $103 billion, 20 times that of Minnesota, and you have to wonder where the money goes.
Of course, Minnesota has its problems too. I missed this little gem of a story until Kevin McCullough brought it to my attention, but public bathrooms have once again become a hot spot:
While police say a high-profile indecent conduct case in the Minneapolis Metrodome Saturday is closed, a Carroll woman involved in it told the Daily Times Herald she believes she was a victim of foul play rather than a willing collaborator.
Lois K. Feldman, 38, of Carroll, and Ross M. Walsh, 26, of Linden, were ticketed for indecent conduct after they were reportedly caught engaging in sexual activity in a Metrodome men’s restroom handicapped stall during the University of Minnesota Golden Gophers game with the Iowa Hawkeyes. More than a dozen people in the restroom were cheering Feldman and Walsh by the time authorities arrived, a University of Minnesota Police report says. ….
When asked to respond to Feldman’s suggestion that she is a victim of a crime, Hestness said: “All I can say is the actions went on for some period of time with many witnesses on hand and no one reported either party was objecting.”
Hestness said Feldman made no allegations to the officers at the scene about the incident being non-consensual.
“If the implication is lack of consent due to intoxication, I guess that could be true for either party, however, they declined the officer’s request to submit to an (alcohol test) so the extent of intoxication cannot be demonstrated,” Hestness said.
Minnesota — a great place to live if you remember to use the toilet at home. I wondered why people on the plane seemed so eager to hit the lavatories before the plane landed.
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Ok….
Akzed on December 3, 2008 at 10:42 AM
I much prefer parts of Ventura and Orange counties. And San Diego over LA any day.
JammieWearingFool on December 3, 2008 at 10:44 AM
Illegal Aliens and social programs to support them. This is the problem with turning a blind eye to it. So goes California goes the rest of the nation. If California is going bankrupt, I expect the USA to go bankrupt soon. I’m looking to put most of my money in gold because the US dollar won’t be worth much after this government gets through with it.
ThackerAgency on December 3, 2008 at 10:45 AM
Texas is the place to be.
terryannonline on December 3, 2008 at 10:45 AM
That’s funny.
Agree with you about the decline. Every time I go back to visit family I am shocked at the infrastructure. Seems to me CA’s on life support. A nice, orderly, managed bankruptcy would do it well, but we all know they’ll opt for the gov’t handout instead.
Have a nice day. :)
JiangxiDad on December 3, 2008 at 10:46 AM
I served my time in hell – 10 years in LA working in show biz. Back in the relative sanity of New York City for 5 years now and very happy. Aside from my friends, one who is a staunch semi-closeted conservative, that city is a wasteland on every level.
J.J. Sefton on December 3, 2008 at 10:48 AM
terryannonline-
It is the place to be. 5th generation Texan.
Brian on December 3, 2008 at 10:48 AM
Greetings from California, Ed. Yes, Los Angeles IS dingy. Sadly, the city of LA is becoming a Third World city before our eyes. The current mayor is busily running as many businesses out of town as he can, helped by his friends in SEIU. The business climate is ghastly.
My family is full of small business people. In the last two years, three have left for Nevada or Arizona and others are planning to get out as soon as they can. There is simply no reason to knock yourself out to make a go of it only to have it all taxed away.
I grew up in the San Joaquin valley. Today, the place looks like rural Mexico. Whole town on the west side of the valley are 99% Hispanic now. You can actually see people living in houses with no electricity because they won’t pay the bill for it. Kerosene lamps will have to do!
The state budget is $134 billion. We are $28 billion in debt. The solution: Let’s raise taxes!
You were lucky to get out. I have a couple of more years and I’m out of Dodge as well.
My native state is ruined. Twenty years of left-liberal dominance of government has destroyed this place, perhaps forever.
sdillard on December 3, 2008 at 10:49 AM
I don’t even like going to the bathroom in a public bathroom and anything beyond what I absolutely have to do there is clearly beyond the pale.
Whatever they were drinking, they weren’t sipping it.
NoDonkey on December 3, 2008 at 10:49 AM
I’m with ya there. Headin to Long Beach myself in a couple days.
johnnyU on December 3, 2008 at 10:52 AM
One of the issues that people tend to miss with government mismanagement is cost control. Governments never seem to get the best bang for their buck. Given that a government the size of California should wield strong buying power in the way that Wal-Mart exerts strong buying power over its vendors to push down costs, you would think they would get the best bang for their buck. But no: that is never the case. One reason for this stems from the federal prevailing wage laws, which artificially inflate wages for public projects. Another reason stems from the nature of government where there is no political capital to be gained for being stingy with the public’s money. There is a great incentive to be generous to public contractors who fund a local politician’s campaign. With an artificially high cost structure, it is not a surprise that California doesn’t have sufficient money for more projects that would rejuvenate the state.
RedSoxNation on December 3, 2008 at 10:53 AM
Did they wash first?
Akzed on December 3, 2008 at 10:53 AM
Sadly, Los Angeles is slowly fading away into the Sepia colored hell of faded tans, brown dingey creams that is Tijuana. I try to avoid it as much as possible. However work forces me into the City of Angles quarterly and the slow fade is progressing nicely.
portlandon on December 3, 2008 at 10:56 AM
Texas is nice, but come on up for a real experience. ;)
upinak on December 3, 2008 at 10:57 AM
How many times will the Dems bail out the autoworkers? How many times will the Republicans bail out the bankers? That’s how many times CA will feed at the US taxpayer trough. After that, it will all be over.
JiangxiDad on December 3, 2008 at 10:58 AM
Yes, LA is a third world city now. Drive down Wilshire–there is not even a nominal effort to have signage in English. The may of Al-Lay, Tony Villar, has abandoned all civic activity; he is merely building his empire. But he’s well on his way to beautifying LA and planting his promised million tress (he’s on 43 now!).
PattyJ on December 3, 2008 at 10:58 AM
Infrastructure (bridges, roads, highways, etc) is crumbling in many large cities across the country, not just L.A. This is a nationwide problem, not just a California problem.
Go to any city – big or small – in America and you’ll see similar problems.
cornfedbubba on December 3, 2008 at 11:00 AM
I’m going to make 3 guesses. Tell me if I’m close.
1. Mexico
2. Mexico
3. Mexico
Vic on December 3, 2008 at 11:00 AM
Just wanted to chime in here and say as a fellow Californian living on the outskirts of Los Angeles, I agree. I will make my escape with 1 year… I’m looking at Texas and Idaho.
Homosexuals (and our own Governor) going against the voters on gay marriage. Legalized pot and prostitution. Insane taxes. The climate alone is not enough to make me stay anymore.
Bob Feeblethorp on December 3, 2008 at 11:01 AM
Can’t. Imagine. Why.
BKennedy on December 3, 2008 at 11:01 AM
Lucky for us we have the largest
make-workre-distributionpublic works program since the Great Depression on Obama’s drawing boardJiangxiDad on December 3, 2008 at 11:02 AM
Safe-Haven Cities, Illeagles, Violence, Gangs, Gays, Rotting Schools and low morals… Comming to a rural town near you in the next 4 years…
If only all States had the gonads that OK. has, it’s enforcment effort on Illeagles has ALREADY reduced crime by 17%, illeagles are FLEEING in droves, unemployment is WAY DOWN… State has budget SURPLUS… Simply be enforcing CURRENT laws, nothing more… Get fed up with liberals, radicals and illigeals and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, like OK did…
Mark Garnett on December 3, 2008 at 11:03 AM
The game must have been pretty bad for fans to prefer watching two Democrats do a Billmonica in a toilet stall.
whitetop on December 3, 2008 at 11:04 AM
Ed,
I moved to Hayward CA, once. I stayed for no more then 7 days. No joke I brought all my stuff down and hated it so much I up and left.
I remember thinking the weather was great (even though I got heat stroke), but somethign was wrong. The houses weren’t in the greatest of shape. The roads were REALLY bad in some areas.
But it was the people more then anything. They were worn out, tired, depressed and aggitated. I can see why no one was happy as well. It wasn’t just the people either…. it was the way the place felt. Like a huge brink sinking down on them.
When I left (I had my car PACKED) blew out my shocks on the way back up to Washington, it was different. Cleaner, better attitudes and just not that depressing aura.
California might be a great place to visit and great weather. But you couldn’t pay me to live there.
upinak on December 3, 2008 at 11:05 AM
America started on the east coast, Plymouth Rock and Jamestown, and our population has moved west west west…water. Hmmmm.
All that are left are North, South, and East. I’m guessing that those taxed out of California would head straight East, keeping to the temperate zone they enjoyed in California-not moving too far South or North. Of course, Ed moving to Minnesota blows that theory,so who knows?
Doug on December 3, 2008 at 11:06 AM
Well, I love it. I love LA and I love the area and I love the people.
So there.
Something does need to be done about the budgeting problem, though. All the goodhearted people are spending the state into oblivion.
MayBee on December 3, 2008 at 11:06 AM
Massively overpaying state workers (especially prison guards, who have an incredibly powerful union).
Realist on December 3, 2008 at 11:08 AM
Just like GM, Ford and Chrysler much of it goes to ridiculously high salaries for government employees, a Christmas tree of benefits and finally, 20 or 30 year retirement pensions at 75%+ pay.
State and local governments who agreed to this unsustainable idiocy must not be bailed out by the states where the people were smarter.
NoDonkey on December 3, 2008 at 11:08 AM
Minnesota lost 55-0 to Iowa.
strictnein on December 3, 2008 at 11:09 AM
Once the federal bailout of states begins, there may be no financial reason to move. Residents of states that lived within their means and balanced their budgets (S. Carolina, for ex,) will bail out states that didn’t, like CA. They’ll probably get away with that heist for some time. If you move, you may see conditions worsen in the new place, as funds are diverted to rescue the old sh*thole.
JiangxiDad on December 3, 2008 at 11:09 AM
Texas has nice weather too :)
It is very nice 72 degrees where I live right now. Although, the summers are pretty hot.
terryannonline on December 3, 2008 at 11:09 AM
lol, Welcome Home Ed.
abinitioadinfinitum on December 3, 2008 at 11:10 AM
terry is I was to move (due to medical issues, not mine) I would go for North/West Texas.
Though I think I would become a snow bird.
upinak on December 3, 2008 at 11:11 AM
Yeah, them illeagles can’t spell worth a damn.
Bob Feeblethorp on December 3, 2008 at 11:12 AM
Personally my favorite city in Texas is San Antonio. I’ve only been to the Dallas/Fort Worth area once and wasn’t impressed. Houston is too big and dirty. Austin is a good city for young career people. Never been West Texas though.
terryannonline on December 3, 2008 at 11:14 AM
http://www.sacbee.com/editorials/story/1305330.html
Realist on December 3, 2008 at 11:15 AM
The BF is from Worth area. He has land out somewhere west as well.
I don’t have a problem with toughing it out… Humid heat is the issue. I can’t deal with a lot of humidity. West is drier from what I have been told.
upinak on December 3, 2008 at 11:17 AM
Many of the potential newcomers eying Texas are political refugees from the socialist states. Your list of towns include many of the most liberal parts of Texas. We don’t want to have to move all over again in a few years for the same reasons. Why would a refugee from MA or NY or CA want to move to Austin, for ex., or Dallas. Wasn’t it there just last week that the schoolboard was giving the illegal aliens they employ fake SS numbers?
JiangxiDad on December 3, 2008 at 11:22 AM
I see. I hate humidity too. Although dry heat stinks also. It just feels oppressive (if that makes any sense).
terryannonline on December 3, 2008 at 11:24 AM
Not 75%. I have a relative who retired from a senior position in a law enforcement agency in California. He held that senior position for one year, and retired on 95% of the salary he received that final year. He will likely be collecting a pension for 25 years.
Realist on December 3, 2008 at 11:24 AM
I see what you mean. But I like oppressive better then stifling… if you know what I mean.
upinak on December 3, 2008 at 11:26 AM
I don’t know. I just don’t think a post like this would be written about a ‘red’ area. It seems completely unnecessary to write about how awful a city seems. It’s a gratuitous bashing.
MayBee on December 3, 2008 at 11:26 AM
I’ve lived on the west side of LA for over 25 yrs. It has definitely gone down hill from over use and under repair. It sounds knee jerk, but it’s primarily due to liberalism. Government taxes the productive and supports the nonproductive. The productive have been leaving for years while the nonproductive have been growing in numbers and in expense. It primarily is just liberal spending run amok. LA is going through what the rust belt did 20 years ago. It will recover faster, but not until conservative government gets to take over after the ensuing collapse. I still love the place though. It’s a bustling international city where you can ski, hang glide, surf, hike mountains or scuba dive and all of them nearly year round. I ride my bike to work year round in a t-shirt and shorts, and I can’t do that in most parts of the country. And Ed, the fires did make the air much dirtier than normal the worst I’ve ever seen it, but that was just for a couple weeks. Otherwise the LA air has gotten much better since I moved here in 1981.
bagoh20 on December 3, 2008 at 11:32 AM
I think the only really liberal city I mentioned is Austin because of the academia living there. I actually wouldn’t consider the other cities as extremely liberal.
terryannonline on December 3, 2008 at 11:32 AM
True north strong and free…
… well, lots of pretty scenery, anyway.
Frozen Tex on December 3, 2008 at 11:33 AM
yes, I suppose it’s all relative anyway. A TX lib is prob. a conservative here in NY. I was using the county by county red vs. blue state map of TX for my comment. The big cities and surrounding counties were all blue.
JiangxiDad on December 3, 2008 at 11:34 AM
Very true. Although most urban areas vote blue. The GOP needs to make gains in big cities.
terryannonline on December 3, 2008 at 11:37 AM
The question is how too.
upinak on December 3, 2008 at 11:39 AM
Back in the 90’s I had a job that put me in Newport Beach for one week of every month. The coast in Orange County is still perfect. Cost of living sucked but it was a great place to visit for a week a month. The rest of SoCal is a dump.
The state government is so wrapped up in social services programs that no matter how much their economy grows (grew) they still run deficits. And of course, now they want the rest of us to pick up the tab.
grdred944 on December 3, 2008 at 11:39 AM
Fake SS ID’s
This has been going on for years at DISD. The hammer will come down soon.
DISD is corrupt and inept. I live in Plano which has great schools & teachers.
My wife is a sub-teacher. The environment of a school system is no better than the community that surrounds it. It is hard to attract good teachers to a failed system. I don’t know the answer but before anything changes it usually hits rock bottom and DISD is there. DISD does have some innovative schools and I have several friends that attended them. The problem’s created by the “spread the wealth” mentality is manifest in DISD. Just wait until Obama comes on board and tries to “fix” education.
As it is, Texas has a “robinhood” plan which takes money from “rich” school districts (Plano gives over 33% of it’s tax money to other “poor” districts.) and gives it to “poor” districts. So we are already living in the socialist utopia of spreading the wealth. We pay more for our kids to do things in school as a result. It is OK with me to a point because Plano does have the McMansions – some upto 6 and 7 Million. I figured about $2000 of my property taxes per year go to other districts.
I just want to keep the hoardes of libs that move to Texas under control.
If you bring that “New York” or Kalifornia attitude here, we will
beat that out of you real quick.
A few hot Texas summers will drive the pansies out.
izoneguy on December 3, 2008 at 11:45 AM
I live in Sacramento, and don’t even go down to the LA area any more unless I want to go to Disneyland.
Bob's Kid on December 3, 2008 at 11:46 AM
I was born and raised in Los Angeles. My parents and one of my brother’s still live there. I live in San Diego. I left L.A. in 1982 and I’ll never ever regret it.
And I absolutely loathe going to L.A. to visit anymore.
From the time I was born, to about the late 70’s, L.A. was a great place to live. As a child, I can remember waking up in the mornings to clear blue skies and a gorgeous view of Mt. Baldy and Big Bear mountain from my bedroom window. Every winter the mountain tops were capped with snow. It was a beautiful and uplifting sight to wake up to. L.A. was also well cared for. The street sweepers came every week, the freeways weren’t too clogged and ‘bumper-to-bumper’ only happened during rush hour, and the people for the most part were friendly and very cognizant of their community. They showed it in the pride they took in keeping up their yards, homes, and neighborhoods.
Then in the 80’s, everything seemed to change over night.
Starting in the early 70’s and ever since, L.A. County and Orange County was, and is, the #1 destination for Vietnamese, Korean, and Chinese immigrants. They took over entire cities and neighborhoods and made them their own. They bought up every house and business they could find, and they still do. Most of the business signs are in foreign language and many refuse to speak English unless absolutely necessary. Most of the Asian gangs only prey on their own and they really don’t graffiti much though, but vast neighborhoods became far too inhospitable for natives.
Starting as far back as I can remember, L.A. was the #1 destination for Hispanic illegal immigrants which, when illegal immigration was still a crime, wasn’t too noticeable as most of them were decent hard working people and families, and they kept a very low profile. They didn’t want to be arrested and deported for being “illegal”. As the number of Hispanic illegal immigrants in L.A. began to swell to vast numbers, they took over vast neighborhoods as well. ‘Illegal Immigration’ as a crime ceased to be a threat whatsoever. They brought with them the same measure of ‘civic pride’ they had in their homelands (hello… *Mexico*). They prey on anyone and everyone ruthlessly, and they utterly destroy their communities. They have ZERO civic pride and they want the “American Dream” handed to them on a silver platter. The Mayor and so-called ‘City Leaders’ that were elected then, and ever since, have kowtowed to that community, as has the State of California. The welfare and social services aspect of California was hijacked and even many of the natives jumped on board that gravy train. Couple that with the African American community, also vast and also with ZERO ‘civic pride’ and the same ruthlessness in crime.
Eventually, no one hardly cared anymore. But for the few small cities in the suburban areas of L.A., you might as well be living “Escape from New York”.
But if I had to point to a single aspect that has brought L.A. and the entire State of California to it’s knees, it’s illegal immigration, more than any other thing. That, coupled with horrible civic leadership, tax-and-spend economics, and the businesses that employ cheap illegal immigrant labor, with most of them being paid ‘under the table’ while they ride the welfare and social services gravy train simultaneously, has done more to destroy L.A. and the entire state.
That’s way over simplified, but trust me, I grew up here starting when this place was still beautiful and I have lived in So. Cali my whole life. Retirement and my “Escape from Los Angeles” is near, and I am chomping at the bit to flee this state.
FlatFoot on December 3, 2008 at 11:48 AM
Shhh. It’s getting too crowded already.
Vashta.Nerada on December 3, 2008 at 11:51 AM
Easy:
1) A legislature that has never met a spending program it didn’t like: any one-time revenue source becomes an excuse for recurring spending. We’ll figure where the money for future programs will come from, later. (hint: taxes) It has also almost never met a program it would cut.
2) A left-liberal Democratic legislative majority that has never met a tax increase it didn’t like, regardless of its usefulness or the harm it might do. Just a few years ago, then-State Assemblywoman “Hurricane” Jackie Goldberg was part of a group that stood too near an open mike as they planned to stretch out a state budget crisis in order to force people to accept higher taxes. Our masters accidentally dropped the curtain on that one. Meanwhile, businesses flee the state and unemployment rises, thus lowering tax revenues needed to fund all those programs. But wait! We’ll raise taxes on “the rich!” Yes!
3) A governor more concerned with being popular than with doing the right thing for the state’s fiscal health. I voted for Arnie in the recall, but I’ve been sorely disappointed in him. After getting his head handed to him in an ill-conceived special election that saw several needed reform measures go down to defeat, he’s spent more time ignoring or fighting his fellow Republicans than battling the legislative majority. (I should have voted for McClintock.) He’s also backed some very stupid and wasteful bond measures, thus increasing our debt and leaving us with less money for truly needful things. Still, I will give him a little (very little) credit for maintaining the budget at a level $103 billion. Against this legislature, that counts for something.
4) Voters who don’t pay attention, don’t care, don’t educate themselves, or just want to vote for whatever makes them feel good*. Just look at whom we keep electing and the stupid ballot measures we approve. Yet more debt just so we can have a needless bullet train to San Francisco? Oy, vey!
*(Not counting those who actually agree with left-liberal stupidity, of course.)
5) Related to #4, a ballot-initiative system that is broken. It’s too easy to get a measure on the ballot, and thus it’s exploited by every special interest (Right or Left) that wants public money committed to their favored cause. And once these measures are approved, I don’t believe the legislature can cut the committed spending, even if conditions demand it. Thus, more debt, more money committed to debt and interest, and thus less for infrastructural maintenance — other than by issuing more debt. :/
(Also, the legislature uses the initiative process as a coward’s way out of dealing with unpopular issues, shoving their jobs off on the people, who often don’t have the time to deal with very complicated pieces of legislation. The whole initiative process here is broken.)
Our whole fiscal system and political culture is a mess, and it starts with legislators protected by safe seats (thankfully, that ends in 2010): gerrymandered districts that almost guarantee a Democratic majority (Republicans agreed to a near-permanent minority in order to keep some seats “safe”). Safely ensconced under the Capitol Dome, the Mandarins of Sacramento have become basically a self-renewing oligarchy who are only barely responsible to their voters. Thus they can get away with using state funds to pay off unions (like the prison guards) and state workers, and expanding social services beyond any reasonable point. They’ll just keep increasing taxes, oblivious of the fact that one day, the main taxpayers will have had enough and just leave.
So, to answer your question Ed, it all goes to service ill-conceived debt and self-serving projects.
irishspy on December 3, 2008 at 11:52 AM
I have lived in Ca. since I was 1. I grew up in the pits of Ontario, Ca. Lived in Cucamonga for a few years. Moved to Vegas when I was 18. Hated it there. Moved back to Ventura, in my early twenties. Hated Ventura. To many street people, and the town was a pain getting a job. Then moved to Santa Barbara. Nothing spectacular. To many tourists and made getting around my spots a pain. We finally sold hubby’s home and moved a hour North. It is a beautiful Coastal area. I like to drive to Morro Bay, San Simeon. The roads around here on not kept up to well. Unfortunately, we live next town north of Santa Maria. That is where I drive and pick deposits up from businesses. It is Mexico! Don’t let the ads fool you about being the safest City! It is not safe! The Murder rate is high. And illegals are always being arrested. We have more registered sex offenders who are Mexican. When I come home, it is in another world. Our town is small. Our home is on 1.2 acres. Very pretty home. Neighbors are not close. At 3:00 or so in the morning, I can vacuum, even blast my music. You cannot hear a thing. In the summer we play midnight basket ball. No one has ever heard us. But, we are fed up with Ca. Have house on Market. Will take some time to sell. Not sure of where we will move to. Been looking at homes in GA. The People of Ca. are agitated. Can’t blame them. Until the illegals are swept out of here. It will continue to go down the hill. Los Angeles is the pits! I cannot stand going there at all. I have family in Chino, so at times I do go there. San Diego, is pretty but still to many illegals. Orange County is so so. I lived in Anaheim for a few years. Is a crap town. Ca. is going down and fast. Will never be the same.
sheebe on December 3, 2008 at 11:52 AM
As a former Minnesotan, just a quick comment:
California occupies an area almost twice as large as MN and has a population about 7 times larger. California’s larger in most terms than a lot of countries. So it’s not that surprising that they have a significantly larger budget than MN. And don’t forget all the professional sports teams they have. :)
Dagnar on December 3, 2008 at 11:53 AM
And don’t forget all the professional sports teams they have. :)
Dagnar on December 3, 2008 at 11:53 AM
What Teams? The Lakers Rock! Other than that, the other teams are not that great………. Use to be years ago.
sheebe on December 3, 2008 at 11:58 AM
And The Ducks are cool too!
sheebe on December 3, 2008 at 11:58 AM
Yep, that and the fact that there are probably more firearms per family than anywhere else in the country would make them squeemish and the unapologetic taste for all things fried, bbq’d and spicy.
God Bless Texas
tru2tx on December 3, 2008 at 12:05 PM
- and has a GDP 7 times that of Minnesota (#9 per capita GDP in the nation), and just about everything is more expensive here than it is in Minnesota.
California’s not without its faults, but the gratuitous bashing from the rest of the country is getting pretty tiresome. Frankly, we don’t like you folks back east very much either; and while I get annoyed with the taxation, crime, regulations, and lefty/greenypants tendencies of so many of the people around me, I still can’t think of any state in the country where I’d rather live.
Alex_SF on December 3, 2008 at 12:05 PM
I’ve spent most of my life in Southern California, growing up in the late 60’s and the 70’s in the L.A. area. The Los Angeles of then is vastly different and I have many fond memories of how great the area used to be.
I live just north of San Diego, along the coast, and it is lovely here. It’s expensive, but lovely. I’ve been here 11 years now and if I am to live in California, I can’t imagine doing it anywhere else and certainly not anywhere near Los Angeles or anywhere in the Bay Area.
I do long for an escape from California with Wyoming being my destination of choice. For now that’s just a future dream because my husband’s job is very much tied up here for now. When it becomes too painful financially (not all that far away, I suspect) to stay here and prosper, I imagine we’ll find another home.
For now, I feel like I live in a little bubble of Southern California that’s still beautiful.
Athena on December 3, 2008 at 12:05 PM
I’m a Nebraskan. Our climate isn’t perfect, but I’ve noticed perfect climates draw lots of people, many who aren’t employed. Right out of school, I took and passed the board exam in Florida ’cause that was where the gold was supposed to be located and the climate seemed appealing.
Even then, I decided I would rather have some winter weather and a few good neighbors than join the gold rush. Haven’t been sorry, but it is a tradeoff.
a capella on December 3, 2008 at 12:06 PM
I like SoCal, too. (I’m in LA County – San Gabriel Valley.)
Obviously the political situation is a huge mess and it has led to so many problems that has weakened this state, but after two years here I would not condemn the place. Every place has its problems, but not every place has pluses and SoCal has plenty of those. I’ve lived in the Balto-DC corridor, Burlington VT, Chicago, Boston, Houston, and central Indiana. I liked most of them for different reasons (although after 6 years in Indiana I can’t really say there is much to recommend it), but I’d say SoCal is faring very well by comparison. Depending on my mood, I’d rate it #2 or #3 of the places I’ve lived.
I’m not quibbling with Ed’s perceptions about LA. I’m sure it’s changed and in many ways not for the better (although from all accounts the pollution here in the San Gabriel valley and Inland Empire is vastly improved, so I disagree with him about the brown haze thing — I experienced much worse pollution in DC, Houston, and Indiana). I would say though that our perceptions of places to live are dramatically affected by where we are in our stage of life, as much as by the places themselves.
When I lived in Chicago after living in the DC area it took me several years to adjust. I didn’t understand a place that politicized the parks department, for pity’s sake, after just having left an area as politically sophisticated (on a federal and international level) as DC metro. Over time, I grew to really love Chicago and was sad to leave. But… I’ve been back and now, after living in other places and post-9/11, Chicago seems dirty and grumpy and rushed, like a less cavernous version of NYC. And the long, grey winters and springs…. and miles of flatness… ugh.
In terms of diversity and quality of the natural areas around here as well as weather, SoCal has the other places I’ve lived beaten by a mile. I also find the people here to be diverse in a way that feels familiar and welcoming to me (having grown up in the DC area). Overall, I think they’re pretty nice and tolerant folks, if a little distracted/preoccupied with their own challenges. And, the folks in this area are interesting, because they’ve been exposed to change or are part of the change themselves. I hate to sound catty, but try striking up an interesting conversation with someone who’s lived in the Midwest all their lives… or any conversation with a stranger in Boston (they really are as unfriendly as their reputation)… Californians (at least Southern Californians) are pretty nice folks.
Different strokes for different folks, obviously, but in my opinion you can still feel Reagan here. There is still a frontier spirit of people trying to improve their lives. I’ve the places I’ve lived, this feels the most similar to Texas with a smattering of DC from the diversity of people here. I think things can get better. It’s a shame that people are giving up on LA and moving away. I understand why, but I do think it’s a shame.
Y-not on December 3, 2008 at 12:06 PM
Right on! This LA Gal agrees with you. I love the Golden State and always will.
I refuse to leave Reagan Country to the leftist vultures. I’ll stay and fight. Someday this state will throw its 55 electoral votes to a Republican again.
People assume that the Hispanic vote is solidly Democrat. I don’t believe that. I think these voters are solidly socially conservative. The first time Californians voted down gay marriage the effort was led in part by Catholic and evangelical Latino voters. The only Republican in recent years to make any effort to reach these voters was George W. Bush, and he actually got a good percentage of their vote. We like to rag on Bush (at least I do) for many reasons, but he was effective in speaking to these people, and we should build on that. Many of them are blue collar small business owners like Joe the Plumber and Tito the Builder. Small business owners traditionally are Republicans. We should start reaching out to them there.
ramrocks on December 3, 2008 at 12:13 PM
Watch out for Austin. I’ve watched over the years as Chapel Hill and the NC university system are slowly killing NC.
Liberals are like locusts.
Let’s roll.
ex-Democrat on December 3, 2008 at 12:15 PM
You’re right. That’s exactly what happens. College grads move here and many end up leaving after 10 years or so.
We had a huge exodus in the mid-90s after the riots and the earthquakes, but we then went through a slow population boom from 2000 on. I think we’ll be seeing a down-tick soon because of the economy.
ramrocks on December 3, 2008 at 12:18 PM
Dig a little deeper and you’ll find: liberal Democrats. They destroy every community where they are the majority.
ex-Democrat on December 3, 2008 at 12:19 PM
I am willing to at least consider this Minnisota woman’s side of the story.
Maybe she could come over some night and we could discuss the matter over drinks?
Kasper Hauser on December 3, 2008 at 12:19 PM
Yep, the bashing from the rest of the country feels a little bit like the U.S.-bashing I’ve taken from Europeans. Some of it stems from jealousy, I think.
Before we moved out here, my hubby interviewed at a number of places all across the country. He was born and raised a New Englander and one of the places was in Portland, Maine. I remember him telling me about the leg of his flight from Philly to Portland which was slightly delayed on the ground. The folks on the plane, primarily white business people, were openly blaming the delay on the ground crew’s ethnic background. I can’t imagine that happening here.
I was raised in a very integrated town in Maryland outside DC. Although I’m white, I find myself a little uncomfortable in homogeneous communities. I like the variety of people here.
Y-not on December 3, 2008 at 12:20 PM
Ed, I lived in the Bay area for 5 years (’96 – ‘00), and was crushed to leave (my job required it). Now everytime I go back to visit friends, I am stunned at the traffic, population density, and dreariness of the freeways. Oh yeah, and the taxes!
I’m with you… I don’t miss it much anymore (but I do miss being 3 hours from Tahoe and 4 hours from Yosemite).
lionheart on December 3, 2008 at 12:21 PM
Totally true! Southern Californians are very friendly and are some of the most curteous drivers in the country. Seriously, we let people cut in! We have to otherwise we’d never get anywhere. Everytime I go back to Michigan to visit family I’m stunned with how nasty Michigan drivers are. And with how unfriendly people in the rest of the country are.
ramrocks on December 3, 2008 at 12:23 PM
Best way to deal with the Texas heat in the summer is to have your pool handy. 100 degree day, 88 degree water. 78 degree night, 88 degree water. Perfect. Houston is big and very accomodating but don’t let the secret out past this blog because we don’t want to attract the wrong element. If you have a heartbeat you can find a good job.
DanMan on December 3, 2008 at 12:24 PM
I lived in LA for 3 years in the ’80s. If I drove about 2 hours inland I could find normal people.
California is definitely a nice place to visit (one-of-a-kind parks and scenic beauty abound), but I would never, ever live there again.
The entire west coast will be destroyed in a few generations.
ex-Democrat on December 3, 2008 at 12:25 PM
Moved to Long Beach with my mom and brothers from Illinois when I was 13. Left to join the Army just before I turned 18. Settled in my wife’s home town in Indiana in ‘75 and never looked back…except in the middle of winter. Hoosiers may not be as friendly as southerners (so I’ve been told) but they aren’t cold and burned-out like the Californians I left behind. Call me if California ever slides into the ocean. I’ll buy some Arizona coastal property.
SKYFOX on December 3, 2008 at 12:25 PM
As a California native, who’s lived all over the nation, I can say that California is one of the worst run states in the nation. I feel as you do, sad when I return, and how much money they have wasted on everything BUT the things they are supposed to; Schools, Infrastructure, Fire/Police, etc.
suzy.denim@gmail.com on December 3, 2008 at 12:28 PM
Yes, that’s absolutely true! My husband and I were amazed to both find ourselves concluding the same thing. The worst drivers I’ve encountered were in Boston, but Chicago was catching up fast the last time I was there. In Indiana you mostly just have to watch out for the trucks filled with pigs. Never drive behind one with your windows down! :-)
Having said that, years ago I interviewed for a job in Minneapolis and my prospective boss took my to a Twins game (he was trying to recruit me). As we’re driving along the highway, I noticed a line of cars forming… several miles from the exit. The Minnesotans were so polite, they were lining up to make the exit way ahead of time and no one was trying to cut in! Amazing!
I liked what I saw of Minneapolis-St. Paul years ago, but the weather was hot and humid (and this was in May), the suburbs seemed very non-descript, and the terrain is so flat. But as a city to live in (not in the burbs, perhaps) it seemed nice.
Y-not on December 3, 2008 at 12:31 PM
Not surprisingly, all major cities are also run by Democrats.
MarkTheGreat on December 3, 2008 at 12:33 PM
illeagles?
Isn’t that what vets are for?
MarkTheGreat on December 3, 2008 at 12:36 PM
*snickers*
NEVER go overseas… especially Germany or italy. Michigan drivers will look like a dream scape.
Especially when you are on the autobahn. Oh man I have stories!
upinak on December 3, 2008 at 12:38 PM
Actually a census report was released recently – if you count income from all funding streams (state, federal, etc.) – California government spends roughly $233 billion (!?!?!) per year. To compare, that’s twice as much as the next state down the list (NY). Compared with Texas, they spend twice as much per resident.
The Governor declared another ‘fiscal emergency’ yesterday. This allows him to call the legislators into special session. In short, he wants to raise taxes (again). The only thing keeping this from happening is the legislature does not have a 2/3 majority (3 short in senate & assembly). Basically the few Republicans left are all that’s keeping our taxes from going sky high here.
As for where the money goes, think welfare. Pretty much every other state welfare program has gone into line with federal standards. Basically get a job in five years or get cut off. Cali has not. This simple change alone would save billions. Additionally, this makes the state a ‘welfare magnet’ even as anybody productive is trying to leave. Taxes go up, middle/upper class people leave, those who wants welfare show up. Less tax revenue comes in, more funds go to welfare. Less money for everything else. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Of course, this does not take into account the illegal immigration problem here. Fixing that would save at least $10 billion per year alone.
Suihei Deloi on December 3, 2008 at 12:41 PM
I left LA in 1978. I wonder if there could be a connection.
MarkTheGreat on December 3, 2008 at 12:42 PM
I know what you mean, Ed. I grew up in Memphis, and I live in Jacksonville, FL, now. My parents and my brother still live back in Memphis, and while I love getting back to visit them, I get reminded of why I don’t live in Memphis anymore. It’s a shell of a town that it used to be.
crushliberalism on December 3, 2008 at 12:43 PM
The Army played a sick joke on my dad and my family and made his last assignment here in Southern California. That was ten years ago.
Granted, I found my wife here, and made a few good friends here as well, I never really feel comfortable in California. The weather is great and there are an unbelievable amount of state and national parks to see here. Vegas and the Grand Canyon aren’t far and you can make it to Yellowstone in two days, driving through beautiful country. Its just the people here. Far too many that just have no character whatsoever.
However, I want to move, bad. I was so glad when my wife brought up Montana one time. We just got back from Minnesota a couple of weeks ago, and I loved it there, freezing weather and all. While California isn’t all bad, I’d still rather live in Texas, where I spent a good chunk of my childhood. I remember really liking Bryan, TX.
conservativejack on December 3, 2008 at 12:46 PM
What about those of us that are staunch, rock-ribbed conservatives that are simply sick of dealing with our Liberal state?
I live in New York state (Buffalo NY area) and frankly, I’ve been contemplating a move for some time now. The only things keeping me and my family tied here are my children. They BOTH have Autism Spectrum Disorder, and the services available for children with Autsim are pretty good here.
Honestly, while I generally hate social services as stupid government wastes of money, I make an exception for Special Needs children’s services because they are just EXORBITANTLY expensive, to the point that nobody but the upper middle class and the wealthy could ever afford them. Frankly, neither me nor my wife make enough money that we could afford to pay for our children’s services ourselves. No matter how hard we work, we could NEVER make the kind of money needed. (Try FOUR GRAND A MONTH for ONE child. We have TWO.)
So I am understandably concerned about moving. While I could likely find a much better paying job there, my wife would lose her Librarian job here, and probably wouldn’t find another. The only way it would work for us is with State funded education assistance. It would likely have to cover everything, as we probably couldn’t afford to pay for any of it.
Are there any programs in Texas like this? I’ve heard about a tentative voucher program being discussed in Texas, but I don’t know much about it. Can any Texan Hot Air denizens help a fellow Conservative out here?
wearyman on December 3, 2008 at 12:47 PM
Do you guys think we can talk Mexico into taking California back?
MarkTheGreat on December 3, 2008 at 12:48 PM
Reno’s going through a tough time right now, but it has Nevada’s culture, is about 15 degrees cooler than Vegas, it’s even closer to Tahoe and about the same distance from Yosemite. (It’s closer to Yellowstone as well.)
MarkTheGreat on December 3, 2008 at 12:52 PM
Yeah, at least they would drill off the coast and the oil would be available for the world market.
thomasaur on December 3, 2008 at 12:54 PM
Than why do Californians turn into such jerks when they move to Oregon to escape California? Or do we just get the troublemakers?
http://www.platypuscomix.net/fpo/history/niceometer.html
portlandon on December 3, 2008 at 12:54 PM
they aren’t use to rain. Come on man! Get with the program!
upinak on December 3, 2008 at 12:55 PM
Haven’t lived that many places, but Iowa has the friendliest people I have ever met. I’m striking up conversations with new friends I meet in the grocery store almost every time I go. (Football team isn’t bad either.)
MarkTheGreat on December 3, 2008 at 12:57 PM
I just made the move from LA to Laguna Hills in Orange County. I have two small children and I just could not send them to LA schools. I commute 2 or 3 times a week into LA and I am utterly shocked every time I cross the county border on the 5 freeway. The smooth well designed well kept lanes are replaced by bumpy unkept chaos. And it has been that way for a long time. I was always proud to be an LA resident and through it all — riots, OJ jury, fires, earthquakes — I said I was determined to plant my feet and hold my ground. That was fine when I was single, but I have kids now. This nonsense is just not worth it any more.
tommylotto on December 3, 2008 at 12:58 PM
I can’t speak to that, but it seems like both Oregon and Washington both have some problems with excessive social liberalism. Did that come from the California transplants or from the Microsoft boom or something else?
I would add that in my experience Southern Californians are a distinctly different breed than their northern cousins. I’ve had pretty bad experiences with the Bay Area and the Central Coast.
Y-not on December 3, 2008 at 12:59 PM
MarkTheGreat on December 3, 2008 at 12:52 PM
Lived in Reno for a while. It is horrible there! The crime rate when I was there was high. Been years though, if it is getting better. Then it could be a nice town. Let me know, there were some cool places there.
sheebe on December 3, 2008 at 1:05 PM
I truly think there is a little bit of “you can never go back-itis”. Things are never what they were as you remember them. Maybe even a little selective memory.
I grew up in Washington State and would never move back. Miss some of the friends I once had, but have made new friends who are more in line with the way I am now, not 35 ago.
tru2tx on December 3, 2008 at 1:09 PM
LA looks dingy and grimey?
No surprise, since LA = Mexico
pseudonominus on December 3, 2008 at 1:11 PM
Oh I forgot:
VIVA LA RAZA! VIVA AZTLAN!
pseudonominus on December 3, 2008 at 1:12 PM
Not to mention… the rattlesnakes! And scorpions!
Mention that often. Also, mention the state’s conceal-carry laws. That should scare the living daylights out of any leftist.
newton on December 3, 2008 at 1:13 PM
I’ve found driving in Italy and Germany to be a refreshing breath of fresh air compared to driving in the U.S., actually. No left-lane hogs who won’t move over & get out of the way for faster traffic; no clueless cell-phone talking / burger-munching / onboard-navigation-fiddling idjits; they actually look before changing lanes; they are actually aware of (1) where they’re going and (2) what’s around them on all sides; and most of them drive like they’d actually like to get somewhere, preferably today.
There were a few exceptions in the several weeks I spent there — a couple of those weeks on a motorcycle — but those people more often than not had French or Austrian tags on their cars.
I love America and generally like most Americans, but let’s be honest: most drivers here are clueless, inconsiderate, inattentive, and downright dangerous behind the wheel. Most of them would be run off the road in Italy, and rightfully so, which is I think where they get the idea that Italian drivers are “crazy,” as so many of them have lamented to me. No, they’re better drivers than you; you just couldn’t get into the flow of how traffic moves there.
And as for the autobahn: if you stick to the right lane except to pass, keep an eye out for faster-moving traffic behind you so you can get out of its way and not pull out right in front of it, you’ll fit right in.
Alex_SF on December 3, 2008 at 1:26 PM
Wearyman, a couple of years ago I helped a family moving that had special needs children here find a home. I do not remember the problems they had, but they told me that Texas, and the Austin ISD, were some of the best available. I think you can find more here http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/CSHCN/
Webrider on December 3, 2008 at 1:36 PM
Not 75%. I have a relative who retired from a senior position in a law enforcement agency in California. He held that senior position for one year, and retired on 95% of the salary he received that final year. He will likely be collecting a pension for 25 years.
Realist on December 3, 2008 at 11:24 AM
I know a worker who was promoted to a senior management position at a community college and after a year, he retired based on that last year’s salary.
silverfox on December 3, 2008 at 1:41 PM
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