CNN poll: 61% now “dead set” against auto bailout
posted at 8:30 pm on December 3, 2008 by Allahpundit
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You should have flown commercial, boys.
In early November, polls indicated that nearly half the public supported federal assistance to the big automakers when this issue first came before Congress.
But evidence in surveys from other organizations suggests that the poor performance by executives from GM, Ford and Chrysler at congressional hearings, and the admission that they had taken private jets to get there, resulted in a steep drop in support for government assistance to automakers…
Opposition to the bailout of the auto industry is widespread across the country, even the Midwest, where the domestic automakers have their headquarters and many of their assembly plants.
The poll indicates that most opposition to the bailout comes from the West, where opposition reaches 67 percent. Sixty-one percent of those polled in the Northeast, 64 percent in the South and 53 percent in the Midwest oppose using federal dollars to help the automakers.
Here’s video from this afternoon of GM’s VP promising to streamline operations if he gets what he wants and warning that he’ll take 10 percent of American labor down with him if he doesn’t. See page two of this IHT story for the job-cutting, factory-closing, debt-renegotiating details, which turn out to be not very detail-oriented at all. The White House isn’t ruling anything out, but in light of tonight’s poll and the fact that Obama supports a bailout, what possible reason does the GOP have to help push through a comprehensive plan? If they want to give GM $4 billion to keep them in business until Inauguration Day, so be it. Then The One can dine on this crap sandwich and suffer the political consequences. He’s already got the spin all set; it’ll be a good test of his “elevation” powers to see if he can BS people into changing their minds.
Update: Congress is already seeing results from driving a hard bargain. Harder than usual, anyway.
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Just say NO to bailouts. Especially for
unionsautomakers.Zorro on December 3, 2008 at 8:34 PM
Very interesting,so this is CNN’s very first
honest poll!!
canopfor on December 3, 2008 at 8:36 PM
I am in the 61% majority opposed to more bailouts. I am also a lawyer who has been in private practice for over 30 years. There are existing legal procedures to deal with these bailout situations. For banks, there is FDIC receivership. For companies like GM and Ford, there is Chapter 11 reorganization in the bankruptcy law. The auto companies should not be making promises to Congress, but to creditor and shareholder committees in Chapter 11 proceedings.
Phil Byler on December 3, 2008 at 8:39 PM
With the hundreds of billions being passed around a piddly 30 billion or so for the auto industry sounds OK by me.
Goodale on December 3, 2008 at 8:45 PM
I think IBD has a very apt cartoon for this:
Meric1837 on December 3, 2008 at 8:47 PM
This is ABSURD!!!!
ALL “BAILOUTS” MUST STOP AND THE POLICIES AND POLITICIANS, A.K.A DEMOCRATS, THAT CAUSED THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE NEED TO CALLED OUT, PLACED UNDER OATH, AND HELD FRICKEN ACCOUNTABLE!!!!!!!!!!!
Seven Percent Solution on December 3, 2008 at 8:47 PM
Oops, here it is:
Meric1837 on December 3, 2008 at 8:47 PM
61% of people say “Let them eat fail”.
mram on December 3, 2008 at 8:48 PM
Ok, I give up: http://ibdeditorials.com/CartoonPopUp.aspx?id=313105137270067
Meric1837 on December 3, 2008 at 8:48 PM
A 100 billion here, and 100 billion there, and pretty soon, you’re talking about serious money.
Wino on December 3, 2008 at 8:48 PM
This isn’t a bailout of companies or jobs…..it’s a political payoff of the unfunded union pensions and I am 150% against it. Bankruptcy Court is the only suitable place to fix the structural problems with the Big 3. If the pesnsions can’t be financed from the bankrupt estate it can enter the federal government’s pension guarantee program.
David in ATL on December 3, 2008 at 8:51 PM
This afternoon Greta Van Susteren had a post up about the CEO of Chrysler, Bob Nardelli.
He canceled an interview with her and in the course of doing research as to why he did that, she came across a forgotten story from her show in January 2007, in which she mentioned that as CEO of Home Depot, Robert Nardelli had been fired with a severance pay of $210 million.
She mentioned poor performance. I’ve been looking at some old articles that cite his management style. I vaguely remembered the Home Depot story, but I’d forgotten the name until I saw it at GretaWire.
Anyone with more knowledge on this?
INC on December 3, 2008 at 8:54 PM
And weren’t a majority of Americans against the mortgage bailout and look how the politician’s listened to that. We don’t matter anymore it seems.
VinnyL on December 3, 2008 at 8:55 PM
I have a great recovery plan and it will only cost 350 million dollars.
Why doesn’t the government just send a million bucks to every man,woman, and child in the US ?
Then we can pay off our mortgages and stimulate economic growth with our new found wealth.
Almost too easy….
DeweyWins on December 3, 2008 at 8:59 PM
61% against it right now… let’s keep up the fight. Once we peak 80% against the deal, then congress will rush to act and pass it and then chastise all of the ignorant flag-waving, liberty-loving, not tree-hugging, fly-over citizens.
gatorboy on December 3, 2008 at 8:59 PM
Everyday I am looking more and more forward to economic apocalypse. In my town, a major auto parts supplier just announced they are closing both factories and laying off 850 people at the plants that made parts for cars purchased by people who couldn’t afford them. That kind of production is poison for any society. We need to be producing only what we can afford to consume, or what we sell abroad.
keep the change on December 3, 2008 at 9:00 PM
Yeah, 3 million jobs. Those are 3 million people who could be used as a backbone for a new, better American car industry. That’s the way economics work. People are a commodity, just like everything else.
jimmy the notable on December 3, 2008 at 9:00 PM
Cut the spicket off, and let the strong / smart survive. If the Big 3 becomes the Big 2, so be it. Or at the VERY least put the UAW on the hook for the loan as well. Make the auto makers and the workers become a team, for real.
Hog Wild on December 3, 2008 at 9:03 PM
off by a factor of 1,000,000, but the point is clear…
Give everyone $100,000 which would only set the treasury back a cool $35 Trillion.
gatorboy on December 3, 2008 at 9:04 PM
I believe that a Congressman introduced a bill that would take away ALL taxes for the foreseeable future
I don’t have all of the details
but your plan of another stimulus will not “work “
joey24007 on December 3, 2008 at 9:04 PM
If the UAW is so good at making cars and they are always blaming management
why don’t they pool their resources and buy controlling shares in the companies so that THEY can be the management
joey24007 on December 3, 2008 at 9:05 PM
Actually, that’ll cost 350,000,000,000,000 (that’s trillion), if you really mean 1,000,000 dollars to every man/woman/child in America.
jwehman on December 3, 2008 at 9:05 PM
The last time I drove a Ford or GM or Chrysler was when I had to rent a car.
And it is at those times I wonder how they could sell such crap.
The biggest car buying mistake I made was getting “patriotic” and buying a Chevy Van – what a POS. The unions, the economy, the timing have created a perfect storm for GM and no amount of money will ever fix their problems.
Maybe GM can move it’s HQ to Europe and give it go over there. They seem to be able to compete in Europe. If the death of GM could breakup the UAW then that would benefit America over the long haul (20-30 years). It will be painful but sometimes it is better to pull the plug then let the patient die instead of using heroic methods to keep them alive.
izoneguy on December 3, 2008 at 9:05 PM
what is it about the automakers who operate plants all across the southeast? they seem to be just fine and not running to DC for a handout.
seems that any plants that go idle just might get dusted off and open again under new management.
gatorboy on December 3, 2008 at 9:06 PM
I hope someone comes up with a plan to rescue the economy from the government.
Wino on December 3, 2008 at 9:08 PM
OK – how about 100K to every registered voter ?
Since we are handing money out just print some more and send it my way.
DeweyWins on December 3, 2008 at 9:08 PM
right-to-work
joey24007 on December 3, 2008 at 9:09 PM
No Bail out! GM? Forget it! Chapter 11! Ford said they might not need a bail out. Not sure if they said same thing this time. Kill the Union’s!
sheebe on December 3, 2008 at 9:15 PM
A lot of smart people seem to think chapter 11 would work just fine for these companies. Or are they so far in the whole that a simple restructuring would still not work? if so, what would 34 bn do but just delay the inevitable?
bilups on December 3, 2008 at 9:18 PM
The politicians know that however much they screw us over, chances are we’ll hold our noses and vote them right back into office next time. We’ve demonstrated this to them so many times it’s sickening. We SUCK!
FloatingRock on December 3, 2008 at 9:19 PM
What this tool in the video should be ashamed isn’t the fact that you blew it last time you begged congress for a loan, or the stupidity of having to be SHAMED in to driving to congress the second time instead of buying a $20000 airplane ticket, it’s the fact that your are THREATENING to fire 10% of the American workforce if you don’t get your way. And not only that but he makes this ridiculous threat about the technology wars being lost in the world without GM’s technological expertise.
Listen you dummy: you aren’t allowed to make that argument until you stop making cars that have windshield wipers that catch on fire.
Unbelievable.
Nissan currently has plants and offices that employ thousands of Middle Tennesseans in my neighborhood with good jobs that aren’t going anywhere and they aren’t begging right now. I don’t buy that they couldn’t pick up the load if GM stopped making Yukon’s.
A funny anecdote to this was watching the first year of NHL here in Nashville. Scotty Walker, their first draft pick, used to joke about when the Detroit Red Wings came to town the Predators would have to try and “silence the crowd. At home.” because it was full of displaced Michigan Red Wings fans who came here to work at Saturn and Nissan.
Sorry big three, but you lost this argument 15 years ago when you got greedy with Explorers and Hummers instead of perfecting Accords and Camrys.
Tman on December 3, 2008 at 9:20 PM
In the 1920’s almost every major American city, and quite a few regional centers, had car and truck factories pumping out all sorts of models and styles. What was to become the Big Three was the result of buy-outs, force-outs, and clever marketing and economies of scale. By the 1950’s. when Kaiser, and Nash and Packard and a few others finally went under, we had pretty much what we have today.
Bailouts? Why?
Why not straight-up loans with conditions and interest and repayment schedules laid out in advance? Why should ANY American industry (outside of a massive act of God disaster) expect any sort of government bailout or assistance? (And in the case of a massive act of God disaster, isn’t that what insurance is for?
I can’t get a bailout if I go under. Nor can just about anyone else. So, we go to banks, lenders, friends…and borrow, on fixed terms, if we wish to continue what it was we were doing…and along the way we are forced to look at and fix the things we did that got us in a nine-line bind in the first place. Or, we walk away…broke…but perhaps a bit wiser.
It was government that established the chain of events that got us to where we are today…AIG, the mortgage industry, the banks, the auto industry…and people actually expect that government is going to fix the problem?
Yes, the Big Three are in one hell of a bad position…but it didn’t happen overnight. Nor are ALL automobile manufacturers in the US going under.
This reorganization of the auto industry is long long overdue. Government (our elected officials and non-elected regulators) the unions, and consumers as well…and, of course, the chain of lousy managers and CEO’s over the years have had ample opportunity to stare the problems in the face, and fix the problems long before today.
If this bailout is allowed to proceed…then what? Other than being un-Constitutional, look at the Pandora’s Box this bailout will open. Any industry that is faltering, any industry that has experienced losses, can they be permitted to draw off the government teat to take our money to fix their problems? Hollywood having a bad couple years? Give them our money. The major print media crumbling at curbside? Give them our money to fix their poor decisions. Where does it end? And at what cost?
Either the industries face reality and take necessary steps to become profitable or they perish. Getting a bailout with our money? Not a good idea. A perilously bad idea.
coldwarrior on December 3, 2008 at 9:21 PM
“INC on December 3, 2008 at 8:54 PM”
nardelli wuz one of the 3 “finalists” to succeed welch at ge. when he wasn’t given that he went over to hd. i frankly don’t know if hd’s subsequent problems, which happened to occure after a sustained period of massive growth, are mostly due to him or not, but regardless, to accept $210M on yer way out the door under ANY circumstances is terrible. chrysler was so screwed up at that point they prolly figgered they could hardly do worse than bob — and, same as hd, it’s very much an open question just how much of their recent failings can be put directly at his feet …
Buckaroo on December 3, 2008 at 9:22 PM
“Why not straight-up loans with conditions and interest and repayment schedules laid out in advance?”
fwiw, that is actually what the package that is under consideration by congress consists of, the frakking lll media has unfortunately battered us with the “bailout” term for so long now we all just reflexively use it …
:-(
Buckaroo on December 3, 2008 at 9:24 PM
My point exactly. The UAW wants all the concessions and none of the risk.
Hog Wild on December 3, 2008 at 9:25 PM
“The UAW wants all the concessions and none of the risk.”
when they’ve basically been able to do just that for ~40 yrs., it prolly gets kinda addictive …
:-(
Buckaroo on December 3, 2008 at 9:28 PM
Thanks for the additional info. The $210M number was stunning to me.
INC on December 3, 2008 at 9:28 PM
Face it! Even the CEO’s do not want a bail-out. They need to go through a bankruptcy so they can re-negotiate the contracts with UAW, Dealerships and Suppliers. To be competitive they have to bring their costs down! $78/hr for UAW employees compared to $27/hr for USA Toyota Employees. State set Dealership concessions. It is just too expensive to run the big 3 as they are organized now.
OldSarg on December 3, 2008 at 9:29 PM
From what I’ve seen thus far…there is no set plan from Congress nor the Big Three. Will these “bailouts” be grants or loans? If loans, at what rate and payment schedule? And what are the pre-set killers included? What are the penalties for non-complaince? Is the federal government gonig to take over the Big Three? A nationalized auto industry in the US?
Giving a loan to a bad credit risk doesn’t make sense at all. Precisely what changes are going to be required from within the auto industry to make sure all the mistakes and stupidity of the past several decades are not allowed to continue? Are the unions going to be able to veto any of the process? If so, why? Frankly there are still way too many what if’s and unanswered questions at this point, that if I were a loan officer at the local Bank of Podunk, I send the application back almost immediately.
coldwarrior on December 3, 2008 at 9:31 PM
It is a bailout. They can’t get the loan from anyone else, and they already owe other bank loans. That’s why they have to come to the taxpayers, so we will “bail them out”.
We should “just say no”.
Tman on December 3, 2008 at 9:31 PM
Aw, who cares what We The People think? Certainly not Hussein or congress.
ErinF on December 3, 2008 at 9:35 PM
NO BAILOUT!
write your congressmen and senators now
explain to them they can be replaced.
UNREPENTANT CONSERVATIVE CAPITOLIST on December 3, 2008 at 9:36 PM
I actually feel sorry for the Big Three and their CEO’s, but I sure as hell don’t want them to have a bailout. I hope we can create some new, better auto companies to replace them.
Achilles on December 3, 2008 at 9:37 PM
It would be asinine for Bush and the GOP to support this now. Which, incidentally, probably means they’ll be on board soon. Sigh..
changer1701 on December 3, 2008 at 9:38 PM
“Tman on December 3, 2008 at 9:31 PM”
we’re prolly gonna have to agree to disagree here — if they do indeed pay back the prinicpal, that cannot be an actual “bailout” imo …
Buckaroo on December 3, 2008 at 9:44 PM
I was listening to some radio talk show, not normally politically oriented, and the discussion came up where it was revealed the “big 3″ had all “sold their private jets”. All the callers knew that this just meant when the bailout passed, they were all ordering spanking new ones.
Marcus on December 3, 2008 at 9:44 PM
They made their bed, now sleep in it………….
………….. let the light of day shine brightly on the Union contracts and mis-managed companies for all Americans to see……
………….. especially when they can’t change a channel, on TV or Radio, without seeing or hearing a commercial for the “new car” coming out………. “with FINANCING!”
Seven Percent Solution on December 3, 2008 at 9:45 PM
When the UAW takes a hard paycut and benefit reduction for their active members to let the automakers become competitive, then there will be something to talk about.
But they won’t, so let them fall.
btw – I’m a proud Hummer and Jeep owner and don’t think that these models are bad, but the union crapsters are the main problem at the big three, and they must be defeated. Adding $2000 per vehicle for their pork is not a viable business model.
And as far as that greenie-weenie crapola, who in their right mind will buy those crappy little gold-plated golf carts?
One good outcome – kill this union bailout and the omnibus union bill that the dems are pushing will be defeated, for sure…
Americans are going to continue to buy cars, but why should they be punished by these begging grifters?
TexasJew on December 3, 2008 at 9:51 PM
“Marcus on December 3, 2008 at 9:44 PM”
ahem, they are selling the jets because they are desperate for cash.
/eyeroll
Buckaroo on December 3, 2008 at 9:53 PM
Still hope for America, slim, but it’s there.
tarpon on December 3, 2008 at 9:53 PM
As my 401k and other assets vanish like a fart in the wind and blabber-mouth Barney Frank and Chris Dodd bellow on about accountability, some other thoughts come to mind. Who’s going to bail me out? How about all those union-built flawed cars I’ve owned over the past 53 years and their dealers which were and still are reluctant to bail me out of their mistakes when things went wrong mechanically? Screw them and the union built jets they flew in on. They might start building cars like they did in the 50’s and roll the prices back about the cost of a union pension and we can start talking.
wepeople on December 3, 2008 at 9:57 PM
no…more likely voter fraud on a massive scale…
jerrytbg on December 3, 2008 at 10:02 PM
One little personal story – in 1975, I took a break from the grueling oil patch to take a nice little comfy sales job at a Chrysler dealership in Big Spring, Texas with a gentleman named Dewey Ray. I was going back to UT/Austin and needed a little safer employment for a couple of months after a harrowing experience on a rig blowout before I returned to civilization. As you may recall, Chrysler products in 1975 were about as popular as a case of gonorrhea.
Right before I interviewed with Dewey, he made national news by refusing to sell the Dodge Colt, a hideous little tin box that was simply put out on the market because it had very high gas mileage. He told CBS news that he refused to sell it because it was far too dangerous a car for a family to drive – a statement of fact. The national news ate this up.
During the interview, I asked him about this, and he told me “Jim, that was just a big line of bullshit. I refuse to sell that little piece of crap because I can’t make $300 from the damn thing. Now, when I sell a Coronet to the DPS or a Chrysler Imperial to some old lady, I really clean up.
That should be a good example of how the feasibilty of selling unpopular greenie-weenie Pelosi-approved 40 miles-per-charge Volts and thsoe tiny high-mileage tin cans will have on the future viability of the Big Three.
TexasJew on December 3, 2008 at 10:07 PM
Norman Mattoon Thomas (November 20, 1884 – December 19, 1968) was a leading American socialist, pacifist, and six-time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America.
He said this in a 1944 speech:
“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of “liberalism,” they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.” He went on to say: “I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democrat Party has adopted our platform.”
Entelechy on December 3, 2008 at 10:12 PM
If the pesnsions can’t be financed from the bankrupt estate it can enter the federal government’s pension guarantee program.
I hope so. My mother depends on my dead father’s pension from Ford. I don’t want to support her. I’m too self centered and selfish. I’m begging you all to run out and buy a new Ford. Those Crossovers are pretty cool, yes?
manfriend on December 3, 2008 at 10:18 PM
Over at NRO’s “The Corner” Stephen Sprueill reports that the UAW is producing pro-bailout ads to be run in several states. The UAW must be flush with funds in order to afford that effort.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MzUwNDI3ZTBkODk1Yjc1ZTQ2Njk2NjI2ZDk3MDExYjY=
Pelosi is squawking that the Big Three must not go into bankruptcy. Is she afraid that her UAW constituency will be lost if the companies have to restructure and renegoiate?
onlineanalyst on December 3, 2008 at 10:24 PM
What is supposed to power those over-priced electric cars? Windmill-generated electricity?
Too many of our congressional greenies live in or are attuned to urban areas, where these undersized vehicles might be appropriate. They are no suitable for extended travel, especially on highways filled with lethal 18-wheelers.
onlineanalyst on December 3, 2008 at 10:34 PM
That is precisely what her problem is.
cjs1943 on December 3, 2008 at 10:35 PM
Live by
the swordgreed, die bythe swordgreed.Tav on December 3, 2008 at 10:35 PM
I will not be able to attend the funeral of The Big Three and the UAW, but I will be sure to send a nice card saying that I approve. [updated]
- Mark Twain
Tav on December 3, 2008 at 10:37 PM
I would like to see, but will never happen, all of the money that went to the mortgage companies and banks returned to the feds and let them file for bankruptcy, too.
Screw them all.
cjs1943 on December 3, 2008 at 10:38 PM
My ass.
If we give them tax dollars for having produced crap, crap will continue to be made.
And then those jobs fade away anyway.
And we will continue to buy Kia Motors products. Drive one. Then try kidding yourself that the Big Three are in the same league.
BTW Kia got good AFTER they went through bankruptcy.
Stephen M on December 3, 2008 at 10:40 PM
This is all such a thumb in the eye to all of us who have conducted ourselves responsibly over the last few decades.
Go to hell, Pelosi.
Go to hell, Dodd.
drjohn on December 3, 2008 at 10:44 PM
From the link about driving the harder bargain:
$100 BILLION?????????????
And that was supposed to be a “major victory”? I don’t understand.
As to the larger picture of all these bailout requests, this is what happens when we don’t allow recessions to regularly occur in our economy. We grow businesses that have no “immunity” to recessions and are dead at the first sight of a slowdown, since they’ve been growing in an artificial environment. That’s the only way that a bank like Citi could just ignore the possibility of a recession, and then be on the brink if growth even slows to .5% and home prices stop rising.
After all the screaming that libs do about teaching evolutionary theory, they seem to have no concept of evolutionary pressures and their value, at all. If we want strong businesses, they must be tested every so often with economic downturns. But we are well past that …
progressoverpeace on December 3, 2008 at 10:50 PM
61% dead set against bailout? When that number breaks 70% is when Congress will act and bail their a$$es out….our “elected” officials never listen to the people.
jbh45 on December 3, 2008 at 11:12 PM
53% is a significant number considering how invested the region is in auto manufacturing.
That being said, somebody needs to explain how it is that the big three flew into DC to demand $25B and when they drive in a few weeks later they are asking for another $9B on top of that. This despite the fact that the bastards at the UAW have finally seen the handwriting on the wall and are making very small and insignificant concessions which is “progress” if not meaningful.
highhopes on December 3, 2008 at 11:15 PM
Best quote on local talk radio is some politician (don’t know who) referring to the bailout as the “ready, fire, aim” approach to problem resolution.
I’m not necessarily against any particular bailout but this random approach all because Barney Frank and Chris Dodd were too corrupt to do their damned jobs is really appalling. Hey Barry and Congress- Show us the damned plan before you strap all this debt on our grandchildren because you refuse to say no to special interests with their hands out.
Hey Barney and Chris! Why the hell aren’t you in jail?
highhopes on December 3, 2008 at 11:19 PM
I’ve never been against anything more than bailing out GM. They must be allowed to fail!
Paul-Cincy on December 3, 2008 at 11:20 PM
Absolutely. The Republican position should be firmly against any bailouts, and let the Democrats take responsibility if they want to rescue the UAW. Of course, as always the Dems will be grabbing for Republican support to provide cover. And the 2010 elections are far-off enough.
Here’s one instance where I would hope the Reps do exercise something like “party discipline”.
ddrintn on December 3, 2008 at 11:24 PM
Why GM and its network of suppliers and not party-happy AIG or Fannie Mae?
I’ll say it again…… There needs to be a plan if we want to flush billions of non-existing federal dollars into the economy. To date there is no plan. Just politicians looking out after their special interests including the UAW. Without a plan, the government can’t pick and choose which industries are “worthy” of salvation.
highhopes on December 3, 2008 at 11:31 PM
61%?
Big deal.
More people wanted the border problem stopped.
How did that go?
Saltysam on December 3, 2008 at 11:32 PM
Everyone of those Detroit ’suits’ can eat shit and die before I’d give any of them a penny.
GarandFan on December 3, 2008 at 11:35 PM
Is actually on to something (bad math aside).
If we are going to bail-out our way out of this mess, lets
Instead of giving 700 billion to bailout the banks. Lets bailout the population instead.
And then the US can become socialist.
During the last election The One spent over 650 million.
In short he spent roughly $2 in the hopes that every man, women, and under aged child (counting the Acorn vote/foreigners) would vote for him.
The $700 billion bailout amounts to $2000 for every man women child in America.
Assume a family of 4, that would be roughly $8k per family.
That is certainly higher then what a stimulus check provides (I did not get one of those).
Where is my money?
/sarc
F15Mech on December 3, 2008 at 11:38 PM
Really, though, the suits aren’t the totality of the problem.
ddrintn on December 3, 2008 at 11:40 PM
My question is, how much money is in the auto makers’ pension and health trust funds right now? Why can’t they borrow 10 or 20 billion from them?
progressoverpeace on December 3, 2008 at 11:40 PM
Really, though, the suits aren’t the totality of the problem.
ddrintn on December 3, 2008 at 11:40 PM
The real problem is the UAW and the excessive labor costs in the manufacture of each Big 3 vehicle.
GM has been under notice for years about its insane caving to the unions. The whole Wagner Act is an anachronism and the Dims are trying to push the unions over the will of the rest of the workforce.
Until the UAW is broken, there will be no profitable Big 3 company.
All this whining about the execs flying in on private jets is a big red herring. Typical stupid Dim propaganda.
The problem is the UAW. Kill it, as well as the entire regressive Dim pro-union agenda and the problems will solve themselves.
TexasJew on December 3, 2008 at 11:49 PM
Then they could move their entire operations to the South and West. There’d be an American automotive renaissance. What’s happened is ossification.
ddrintn on December 3, 2008 at 11:59 PM
Speaking as a resident of Michigan, the auto industry is far larger and the impact of any federal bailout is far more complex than boiling it down to a few auto executives.
The auto industry is massively regulated already by the feds. OSHA telling them how they need to run their plants and the EPA telling them what kind of vehicles they need to build. Throw in the UAW and the special interest politicians (the ethenol crowd pimping Midwestern corn or Louisiana and Texas sugarcane idiots) that jump into the fray and it becomes clear this is more than a “suit” issue.
Whether and to what extent the feds will bail out the auto industry is somewhat moot since Congress will pay attention to organized labor and the special interest politicians before they do what is right in this situation. If a single company with spendthrift executives like AIG is too important to fail, how can you make the claim that an entire industry should go down?
Personally, I think AIG and all the rest should have gone down for their bad stewardship. But once you start down the path of bailout where do you stop? Lehman execs are, I suspect, royally pissed these days since Congress told them to go to hell just before they whipped out the checkbook for anybody or anything that claimed a need.
highhopes on December 4, 2008 at 12:00 AM
The UAW will have to be the first one to give.
I did not watch the hearings however was UAW even asked about/mentioned?
If I was a elected official I would have have sent subpoenas to the UAW head and asked the CEO’s about before I would even consider a bailout.
F15Mech on December 4, 2008 at 12:13 AM
That’s right. The problem then is, no matter how much money is given to them now, this lunatic Congress is going to put enough eco-rules into effect to drive them out of business in a few years, anyway – just like BHO was happy about bankrupting the coal industry. This is the real problem, for which there is no solution – not while we have moron leftists running things, at least.
People forget that the first $25 billion, that’s already been okayed by Congress, is just to retool to meet up with stricter eco standards that this same Congress imposed on them. It’s funny how nobody is really reporting that – morbidly funny, at least.
progressoverpeace on December 4, 2008 at 12:15 AM
All unions are driving this country in the same direction as the Big 3. Here in Ca. cities and the state are looking at going bankrupt for the exact same reasons as the Big 3, bloated union contracts with unrealistic benefits and taxpayers are left to foot the bill. Unions need to be busted and dissolved, these are no longer the days of Upton Sinclair’s “The Jungle” but a highly competitive market that wants and will take care of good workers. I remember when Mercedes set up its plant in Al. and they had 10 times the apps they needed for the positions they had. The unions and their legislative arm the Democrats have ZERO understanding of basic economics, provide a quality product at a competitive price and profit margin. This bailout is a union payout from every taxpayer in America and should be stopped as dead as buggy whips and steam engines.
goat on December 4, 2008 at 12:19 AM
Although the unions and the management of the big three bear a good deal of the blame, don’t forget the federal governments imposing CAFE standards, trade inequities and NAFTA have also been devastating on their bottom line. An argument can be made that politicians helped lead them to the brink of bankruptcy and therefore giving loans to the big three has some merit.
Certainly as much merit as 700+ billion to AIG and Fannie and Freddy, Wall Street, banks and the like.
Goodale on December 4, 2008 at 12:42 AM
You know, with all the financial worries the average household is facing these days, I’m sure the first thing struggling Americans want to do is subsidize incompetent businesses and recalcitrant unions.
NorthernCross on December 4, 2008 at 4:58 AM
The bailout is payback to the unions. There is no precedent (before this year), nor is there any constitutional authority, for Congress to use taxpayer funds to prop up a private institution.
This is what happens when idiots in this country continue to send the same crooks back to Washington. To the crooks, their illegal behavior has been certified by the idiots, so they feel free to expand their operations. Can someone explain to me how Murtha and Jefferson were re-elected?
Northerners think that liberalism is the path to salvation. Apparently, they haven’t suffered enough yet.
orlandocajun on December 4, 2008 at 6:50 AM
The bailout is payback to the unions. There is no precedent (before this year), nor is there any constitutional authority, for Congress to use taxpayer funds to prop up a private institution.
This is what happens when idiots in this country continue to send the same crooks back to Washington. To the crooks, their illegal behavior has been certified by the idiots, so they feel free to expand their operations. Can someone explain to me how Murtha and Jefferson were re-elected?
orlandocajun on December 4, 2008 at 6:59 AM
I seem to recall that Nardelli didn’t actually lose money at Home Depot, but he was apparently content to settle for single digit growth which did not please Wall Street.
angelat0763 on December 4, 2008 at 7:05 AM
I don’t like the idea of a bailout either, but if they don’t do it and 3 million jobs really are lost…the majority of the people who say they don’t support the bailout today will blame the government for letting the collapse happen eventually. Count on it, that is people.
But I do like the idea of keeping them going until January 20 and then letting Obama handle it all.
Terrye on December 4, 2008 at 7:08 AM
One thing I thought about…I live in Indiana. There are all sorts of companies in this state that make parts for cars, the same is true is with the entire Midwest. If those jobs went away..it really would be a disaster here. I think the real issue is that most people do not believe these companies are in this kind of trouble. They think they are taking advantage of the situation in order to get extort money from the government.
Terrye on December 4, 2008 at 7:13 AM
You’d be surprised at all the ways these self-serving auto manufacturers would find to survive if they were told they are on their own and won’t be bailed out. There are too many frightened billionaires yelling the “sky is falling” simply to save their own worthless butts and pacify the parasitic left wing unions.
rplat on December 4, 2008 at 7:54 AM
All the more reason to contact your representatives and senators to block the card-check legislation in Congress. The Dems are happy to seize power by coercing every employee to be forced into a union. Their best voting blocs are the sheep of the UAW, the UMW, the NEA, and the service and government unions sectors that have gouged the taxpayers with higher prices and higher taxes.
onlineanalyst on December 4, 2008 at 7:54 AM
Exactly right. Perfect.
BigWyo on December 4, 2008 at 8:38 AM
Fine, then 100k will be worth exactly 0.01 in today’s money. You need to get a little economic sense. 300M x 1M = 300 Trillion. If everyone had 1M dollars, the value of the dollar would fall to about zero. Printing more money does nothing be devalue the dollar.
Any politician that is for a bailout is anti-American, IMHO. Capitalism works when the government stays out of the way and doesn’t regulate the companies into oblivion. Our government and the idiocy of the companies execs are to blame for the Big 3’s failures, and that’s why we have bankruptcy. Re-org these companies, re-negotiate the deals with the unions and get rid of the CAFE standards.
If I were GM’s CEO, I’d shut down all of their divisions but three. Make Chevy the low end and produce 4 cars/3 Trucks|vans|SUVs, make Saturn/Pontiac the middle tier with 3 cars/1 SUV/Van, and move the Corvette over to the Cadillac division and make Cadillac the top tier division. Produce 3 cars (Cadillac CTS, STS, & Corvette) and 1 SUV/Truck (Escalade). The XR already uses Corvette’s frame and engine technology, so its a good fit. After that, the primary job would be negotiating fair contracts with the union, moving the plants and all parts makers back to the US and make high quality cars. The #1 problem with the US automakers is that they lost their reputation for quality in the late 70s and 80s to the Japanese and Germans. They have to change that image problem.
Moving jobs back into the US will give the automakers back something they lost, company loyalty = more cars sold. When factory workers get paid decent wages for the work they do, they typically will purchase their company’s products, thus creating a base of sales. When the auto maker’s moved factories away (NAFTA), the ex-workers no longer had company loyalty nor the jobs to pay for new cars. Foreign labor costs about 5% of what US labor costs, so since the price of cars didn’t drop significantly, the profit rose. However, if you don’t sell cars, that high profit margin (not to mention the crap quality) means nothing.
Bailouts = socialism.
Get used to it folks, the USA has become a socialist nation. Its all downhill from here, straight into the crapper. Maybe I need to move to Ireland.
Geministorm on December 4, 2008 at 8:50 AM
There should be NO Bailout. We’d be bailing out the wealthy shareholders of hedge fund Cerberus who owns Chrysler & GMAC.
And definitely not one under this (sort of) Republican Administration, Allah is right, let “The One” make a decision on this – God knows it will be one of the first of his career – and not just his Presidential Career, his entire career.
And Save Me from the gimmick of driving hybrids to Washington, D.C. – a coach ticket would cost you $300 which is less than the fuel (even in a hybrid) costs you to drive from Detroit to DC. Idiots.
mngirl on December 4, 2008 at 9:16 AM
Thank goodness!
Now, will Congress listen, or just pull more stunts like badgering CEO’s into driving, not flying to Washington? Did Congress require them to check the air in their tires too?
petefrt on December 4, 2008 at 9:21 AM
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