YES, BOOT THE FRIGGIN UN OUT OF THE UNITED STATES…

Sovereignty is generally dependent on two balancing things — the force the sovereign can bring to bear on the territory, balanced against the will of the people in that area to subject themselves to the sovereign.

The American Colonies of Great Britain are a fine example in point. At one point the Colonies willingly subjected themselves to the Crown, but at some point they determined not to. The British were unable to reassert sovereignty, so it passed away from them.

The Civil War is another fine example. The Confederacy wrested sovereignty away from the Union, only to have the Union take it back.

Sovereignty is always transitory in the presence of war.

I’m going to cut the Muslims a bit of slack — the guy who trashed my church (St. Augustine) here in Culver City was turned in to the police by his imam. I can’t tar them all with the same brush.

unclesmrgol on December 2, 2008 at 6:43 PM

It’s true… and AQ kills more Muslims than Christians. their ideology terrorizes many more. We need them.

Kagan says that the UN should set itself as an arbiter of national sovereignty. Does anyone else see the dangers of this plan?

Absolutely! Everybody knows that’s our job.

Thats like moderate Muslims or unicorns right?

Pakistan is pure Islam top to bottom, the Paks themselves call it the “land of the pure”. They haven’t been infected by anything, they are all sworn to aid Jihad. The Taliban are the children and creation of the “gov”. They have been pretending to co operate because they know they have no other option, besides Uncle Sam dumped a boatload of gift money for tribal elders on them.

BL@KBIRD on December 2, 2008 at 3:12 PM

Your thinking is the mirror image of how the enemy thinks about us Christians. I think many Pakistanis are afraid of the fundimentalists, and quite a few Pak soldiers have died in the tribal areas trying to push the militants out.

I’m going to cut the Muslims a bit of slack — the guy who trashed my church (St. Augustine) here in Culver City was turned in to the police by his imam. I can’t tar them all with the same brush.

Again this proposal, all your talk, really just higlights how nobody in the western world really understands… the rest of the world.

Pakistan is already not a sovriegn nation. They have three forms of government in that nation: the Civilian, the Military, and Intelligence/Militia. A nation with such a diverse governmental structure where each piece has their own powers and they do not, as a matter of practice, co-mingle, is not a sovreign state, it’s a nation still struggling to find independence.

And what would be the point of “declaring” the sovereignty of Pakistan null and void? Sovreignty is not decelared to begin with, it cannot therefore be rescinded by declaration.

And what is any Western power to do with Pakistan? If you were to declare the government false, destroy its military, dismantle its intelligence services, do you really think that any Western power can put that egg back together agian? That story is told for a reason, contrary to popular ignorance.

allegedly oppressed Palestinians.

And you’re right, those Palestinians are as free as birds. Caged birds.

- The Cat

I sorta wonder if he’s been posessed by some UN demon, though.

Why can’t the McCain troika STFU ?
I have a request for the McScoundral:
In the name of of God, GO

Next, the UN will declare the red states ungovernable. UN troops will be burning down Atlanta and marching to the sea.

faraway on December 2, 2008 at 12:29 PM

Something tells me they`d be stopped dead cold in the deep red south.

All the necessary structures are already in place to handle disputes between sovereign nations without having to create new structures. The Bush doctrine didn’t change this. It merely codified the fact that sovereign nations are responsible for the acts committed by its citizens and those legally within its borders.

In short, there are sovereign nations, diplomacy, and armed conflict. Those are all we need. Mix appropriately.

The Black Caesar is not going to press this issue. He is going to hope for the best and do nothing until we have an NBC attack in the US. The last thing he wants is his rival Hillary to grab too many headlines.

logis on December 2, 2008 at 12:59 PM

I just hope we actually make it through to the other side of the pendulum swing. :fingers crossed:

Romeo13 on December 2, 2008 at 1:05 PM

I remember we’ve had this conversation before. I like consistency! I wish we could find more of it in the public sphere, these days.

I agree with everything you’re saying about domestic production. 1000%. I’m also a huge proponent of nuke power – which I’m sure you are, too. But, in any event, our production is going to take some years to get fully online, though just the movement to open things up would change the dynamics, immediately. Unfortunately, looking at our coming government, if I can call these fools a ‘government’, we aren’t going to be moving towards any sort of reasonable energy independence – just the opposite, I’m sure. But, even if we did become energy independent, there will still be much political and financial power that the arabs and persians derive from the fields, which, I think, will continue drive their war. To my mind, aside from what we do, they must be actively defanged.

But, it’s all a moot point, anyway – both my recapture of the fields and your desire for ramped up domestic production. The Dems are going to move in the opposite direction on both accounts. Nothing will change them until something really, really bad happens – either a major attack or a total economic collapse. I figure that we might see both. But, hopefully logis is right and we will be able to make it to the other side of the pendulum swing, perhaps in 2010.

good Pakistani’s

Thats like moderate Muslims or unicorns right?

Pakistan is pure Islam top to bottom, the Paks themselves call it the “land of the pure”. They haven’t been infected by anything, they are all sworn to aid Jihad. The Taliban are the children and creation of the “gov”. They have been pretending to co operate because they know they have no other option, besides Uncle Sam dumped a boatload of gift money for tribal elders on them.

mylegsareswollen on December 2, 2008 at 1:14 PM

My understanding is that terrorist actions in the area have driven much of the Indian population that used to be there out of Kashmir. It wouldn’t exactly be fair to hold a referendum on that issue based on who’s left over because they weren’t targeted by the terrorists.

Additionally, many of the Muslims there (though certainly not a majority) consider themselves Indian and would prefer to be part of a more functional state. They hardly feel free to speak their mind though since doing so can get you killed.

(The world needs to re-classify Muslim as a type of government, not label it as a religion. There are different types of governments in the world: Democracy, Communist, Dictatorship, Muslim and others.)
————–

albill on December 2, 2008 at 1:59 PM

Ewwwww… I like it… have to get rid of dual citizenship first… and then make them SWEAR to disavow their Leader MohHead… on their own Holy Book, as he is now a POLITICAL Leader, not just religious…..

…going so far as to put our and every other nations’ sovereignty — and, lest we forget, the rights guarenteed the citizens of those nations by virtue of that sovereignty — is, however, naive on the scale of that displayed by Pollyana’s retarded sister….

…these pundits and academics seem to want to throw all established and proven mechanisms of governance into the sausage grinder…thereby to prove a usefullness for themselves, presumably…on the order of kids who disassemble watches to “see how it works”….

…but, casting an eye back my own youth, I seem to remember that these same kids could never get the watch back together…there were always parts left over…so, it was always, in effect, “screw the watch to see how it worked“….

…the arrogance of the fashionably educated….

Expect this thing to be an intelligence bonanza for the Pakistanis — the Indians scooped up the terrorist’s cellphones and they now have the call lists and will construct the virtual network associated with the terrorists. The trail leads back into Pakistan, and I’m betting the good guys over there will salivate over what India provides them.

Let’s wish the good Pakistanis luck — it’s going to be a minor civil war, methinks.

In light of the massacre in Mumbai, Robert Kagan writes in The Washington Post on the need to ensure Pakistani cooperation in the investigation:Have the international community declare that parts of Pakistan have become ungovernable and a menace to in…

If Pakistan had no nukes no one would care and India would have already invaded them.

The U.S. should use this time to bomb the Taliban and al Queda holed up in Pakistan. (If Pakistan moves its Army to the border with India then the U.S. has freer range to bomb western Pakistan.)

But then not to worry, in a little over a month the Messiah will clean this all up.
Ohhhhh-Bomb-Ahhhh….

Memeorandum is tracking the buzz on a Rabert Kagan op-ed in the Washington Post, where Kagan offers the idea of—more or less—repossessing the parts of Pakistan where terrorist groups operate and placing them under some sort of international…

The East River. Just a quibble.

JiangxiDad on December 2, 2008 at 12:43 PM

I’m a total tourist when I hit the city. NYC is the one place I don’t try to learn the lay of the land. All I knew was the UN is across from Trump Towers and the local eats in relation to there.