Video: Hide and seek in the Mumbai railway station

posted at 6:17 pm on December 2, 2008 by Allahpundit

A video microcosm of what we’ve come to learn: Not only were the cops outgunned, with just one WWI-era rifle between them, but the shooting had clearly already been on for some time already at the point the clip picks up and there’s no back-up in sight. At least one witness told the Journal that he saw cops running away; that might be what’s happening at the beginning here, although under the circumstances, with no way to retaliate, who can blame them?

The two jihadis ended up leaving the station, barging into a hospital and shooting the place up, then exiting and stumbling upon a police SUV containing the province’s chief of counterterrorism. They shot that to pieces too, killing everyone inside before hijacking the car. As I write this, NBC’s reporting the first hard evidence linking the attack to Lashkar e-Taiba — namely, the phone numbers of top LeT officials programmed into one of the terrorists’ cell phones, including the number for the group’s head of operations. Naturally, Pakistani TV has an alternate theory.


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then exiting and stumbling upon a police SUV containing the province’s chief of counterterrorism.

I was wondering if it was dumb luck or brilliant planning that caused his death. Can you even imagine terrorists just stumbling onto NYCs Chief of Police?

BadgerHawk on December 2, 2008 at 6:24 PM

Naturally, Pakistani TV has an alternate theory.

Oh, let me guess. The Mossad was behind it?

/

perroviejo on December 2, 2008 at 6:25 PM

Nothing wrong with the Lee Enfield, if you know how to use it.

Ace has a post about it.

Skandia Recluse on December 2, 2008 at 6:27 PM

unless we close our borders soon, this is America in 20 years…..3,500 Drug Cartel deaths in Mexico this year and no one even know it…

9 folks beheaded in Tijuana this weekend….

SDarchitect on December 2, 2008 at 6:29 PM

Naturally, Pakistani TV has an alternate theory.

“Hindu Zionists?” That’s creative! Let’s hear it for Shiva-worshipers who agitate for a Jewish homeland!

And people wonder why Islamic societies are screwed up?

irishspy on December 2, 2008 at 6:29 PM

nice…

upinak on December 2, 2008 at 6:31 PM

Didn’t the surviving terrorist already spill the beans about how the Pakistani intelligence service was the organization that trained the terrorist group and provided all the weapons and other equipment? The phone numbers just provide corroborating evidence to his tale. The Pakistanis can try to spin it any way they want, but the Indians (and everybody else) already know the truth.

AZCoyote on December 2, 2008 at 6:34 PM

This is why the 2nd amendment is so precious,, and concealed carry so important. I would say if this occurred in any average rural town, or in any city other then New York and a few other liberal utopias,, these people would have have had a lot of gunfire coming back at them from ordinary citizens. At least some of these terrorists appeared to have no armor. A bullet is a bullet,, whether it comes from a little old lady and her 38 special or a 350 pound man carrying two colt 45’s,, or from a pig terrorists AK-47,, a bullet is a bullet,, these guys would have gone down quicker.

JellyToast on December 2, 2008 at 6:34 PM

Naturally, Pakistani TV has an alternate theory.

Oh, let me guess. The Mossad was behind it?
perroviejo on December 2, 2008 at 6:25 PM

Better; Pakastan’s current working theory is that “Hindu Zionists” did it.

I wonder if India will take Pakistan up on their offer to help investigate that juicy little lead?

logis on December 2, 2008 at 6:36 PM

Hinjews?

The Pohkeestohnees are really stretching now…we’ll hear from the Tahleebohn next….

MrScribbler on December 2, 2008 at 6:42 PM

My question is what happened to the rest of the security/police force?
With blurry video, it looks like the Indian forces had an old bolt action 303 Enfield at maybe 20 rounds per minute. That against a 600 rpm assault weapon.
Two men out of maybe a dozen who looked to have stood their ground.
Wonder what the outcome would have been if India allowed citizens to carry concealed weapons?
Citizens have a vested interest in killing people who wish to kill them.
Police are asked to enter into a situation where they are previously not at risk.
Depend on me with a firearm when my life is at risk or depend on a policeman who is armed who can or has the option to run away? Hhhhhhmmmmm…
Guess those old dead slave owning white guys knew what they were doing with that 2nd Amendment thing there, ya know?

Amendment X on December 2, 2008 at 6:43 PM

Like I’m sure everyone else, I recall driving my neighborhood around right after 9/11 and noticing how vulnerable my community was. Open power lines, stations, a small dam, unprotected schools and other facilities (shopping malls, stores). I thought for sure that another attack was coming. We were so open.

That is hasn’t simply stuns me. If I had told you on September 12 that by December 2008 we wouldn’t have been hit again, no one would have believed me.

My guess is that while the Bush Administration’s actions have severely hurt the ability of AQ to attack us that they’ve also decided that a direct attack on the US like Mumbai/Bombay would unleash a horrific counter-attack.

Let’s hope I’m right.

SteveMG on December 2, 2008 at 6:46 PM

My guess is that while the Bush Administration’s actions have severely hurt the ability of AQ to attack us that they’ve also decided that a direct attack on the US like Mumbai/Bombay would unleash a horrific counter-attack.

Let’s hope I’m right.

SteveMG on December 2, 2008 at 6:46 PM

I think it’s more like they can’t get here by stolen fishing trawler.

TexasDan on December 2, 2008 at 6:48 PM

So Zionist Hindus did it? Aren’t Hindus the majority in India? Why would they be Zionists? Or is the press insinuating that they are HInduist Jews? Why would Hinduist Jews torture and murder Jew-Jews?

mjk on December 2, 2008 at 6:55 PM

TexasDan has it pegged. An inflatable raft and a prayer rug won’t get an aspiring young martyr very far these days.

Bfunky292 on December 2, 2008 at 7:15 PM

I’m not sure exactly what I’m seeing, it’s breaking up, but it would appear that these constables acted bravely. No?

Mason on December 2, 2008 at 7:16 PM

Let’s give up on that WW1 rifle crap, ok? If I were an indian cop, armed with an Enfield .303, that’d have been 2 very dead terrorists. Given the circumstances, that Enfield would be a much better choice than spray and pray. At the LEAST, the assailant would have had to duck and cover, thereby stopping the carnage, or lessening it dramatically.

Sorry to say, the apparent lack of training plus equipment(BATONS in a gunfight?) contributed greatly to the damage done. It’s hard to imagine such a response in THIS country.

irongrampa on December 2, 2008 at 7:40 PM

I’m not sure exactly what I’m seeing, it’s breaking up, but it would appear that these constables acted bravely. No?

It certainly appears brave to me. I’m not sure I would have had the policemen’s courage, first in running with no cover to grab the rifle and then in taking shots at the bad guys in the face of that kind of firepower. With only one rifle to share. And probably not much in the way of extra ammunition.

JudetheFossil on December 2, 2008 at 7:41 PM

and yeah, I see what some are saying about the virtues of the bolt action rifle. Maybe if there were five police with five bolt action rifles, we have a different scenario. But it sure appears that these two policemen were heavily outgunned.

JudetheFossil on December 2, 2008 at 7:44 PM

Pak TV channel says 26/11 hatched by Hindu Zionists

Yep. That’s the ticket. Hindu Zionists. You had to know they’d catch onto that group sooner or later.

Blaise on December 2, 2008 at 7:49 PM

JudetheFossilon December2,2008 at 7:44PM

Yeppers, more firep[ower is better, but keep in mind, 1 round, center mass, would result in either a dead or badly woulnded terrorist–out of action. Training, again, seems to be really lacking in the police force. Next time I’d wager would see much the same results, sadly.

irongrampa on December 2, 2008 at 7:56 PM

irongrampa on December 2, 2008 at 7:40 PM

Yep. My 1903 Springfield .30 cal would have been capable of doing the same. WWI, Allah? So what. Keep a Maxim oiled and clean and it’ll still take down a few hundred Zulus (no backseat stupid crack intended).

Limerick on December 2, 2008 at 8:04 PM

Sorry, Cop under cover w/ and Enfield he knows how to shot, vs. two terrorists running around doing spray and pray w/ AK47s? That equals two dead terrorists. At an absolute minimum, the cop should ahve been able to take out one of the terrorists.

Poor training, crappy cops, crappy doctrine.

Greg Q on December 2, 2008 at 8:17 PM

Nothing wrong with the Lee Enfield, if you know how to use it.

Skandia Recluse on December 2, 2008 at 6:27 PM

Good call. If the cops had ammo and the will and skill to fire the Enfield, the maggots would have been dead a lot sooner.

Jaibones on December 2, 2008 at 8:30 PM

the Enfield, in the hands of a person with just adequate skills could definitely make a difference.

plenty of range

plenty of stopping power

reasonably accurate

India got 9/11d albeit on a lesser scale

dont expect to see such a result again

I wonder if any Indian officials wonder if they may have helped some more in thi war?

Same gos for others.

Sonosam on December 2, 2008 at 8:32 PM

Ha, the islamokooks were jacked up on coke and roids to stay awake and aggressive during the assault…sounds like one of our national sales meetings.

But seriously, this means they were probably training for half a year before this event.

Alden Pyle on December 2, 2008 at 8:49 PM

Those were brave officers holding that passage.

[email protected] on December 2, 2008 at 9:49 PM

Aim small, miss small.

federale86 on December 2, 2008 at 10:11 PM

I say the big thing is lack of training with the police, besides Mohammed telling the terrorists to kill everybody that ain’t Muslim.

Well trained police would have stopped much though not all of the carnage. These police are on par with the Katrina cowards in the New Orleans police department who abandon their posts.

I speak as a former Infantryman, the Indians could have done a LOT more than they did old rifles and all. Shooting on automatic guarantees that you’ll hit about nothing. Only well trained folks can hit well on full auto.

Mojave Mark on December 2, 2008 at 10:21 PM

Considering their limited firepower (i.e., one weapon) and presumably poor training (i.e., why train in marksmanship when you never carry a weapon), those constables were indeed brave. Blame should be limited to the higher echelons.

Splashman on December 3, 2008 at 12:53 AM

SDarchitect on December 2, 2008 at 6:29 PM

Don’t you go slandering God’s children. It’s probably cultural or something. Don’t you know America is made up of immigrants? Sorry man, couldn’t resist. Better be careful though…reporting news like that may result in Lindsey Grahmnesty telling you to shut up.

austinnelly on December 3, 2008 at 1:02 AM

Hinjews?

MrScribbler on December 2, 2008 at 6:42 PM

The alternative is to call them “Jewdus”.

I don’t think so.

Shy Guy on December 3, 2008 at 1:09 AM

I want to share with all of you a story that was on page B-1 of the local newpaper on November 30th. It was written by someone named Anand Giridharadas for the New York Times News Service. The title of the article was “Terror got personal for India”. Here’s part of the 4th paragraph.

But what slowly became clear was that this was an attack of especial barbarism, because it was so personal. It was unlike the many strikes of the last many months, bombs left in thronging markets or trains or cars: acts of shrinking cowardice. The new men were not cowards.”

I would like someone to help find a link to this article and post it for the world to see. The men were indeed cowards as anyone who would gun down unarmed men, women and children would be. Men who tortured the jewish hostages before executing them. You can also write my local paper at [email protected] and make your opinions known as well.

TrickyDick on December 3, 2008 at 10:39 AM

One shot from the “old” Lee-Enfield bolt action rifle whould have completely wiped out the terrorist. And the policeman could have taken the shot from 300 yards away from a much safer position–out of harm’s way from the terrorist’s much shorter range weapon. The real problem was the failure to shoot him dead right now.
***
Old ways of doing things work out pretty well sometimes. I hope the old way of interrogating a captured terrorist are employed by the Indian police / security agencies–no more panties on the head like the Abu Gharib prison technique. Use the British Guy Fawkes approach–or review the PASSION OF THE CHRIST or BRAVEHEART movies for suggestions. Make sure that getting caught has some real consequences.
***
John Bibb

rocketman on December 3, 2008 at 12:49 PM