Should the GOP oppose gay adoption?
posted at 5:30 pm on December 1, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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James Richardson tosses out the gauntlet at his new blog, The Skepticians, in discussing a recent ruling in Florida that overturned a ban on gay couples adopting children. Richardson worked at the RNC this past year, and believes that the gay-rights issue will eventually marginalize the Republican Party. He sharply criticizes the proponents of the ban in Florida:
Florida’s indefensible ban dates back 31 years to Anita Bryant’s “Save our Children” crusade. On the day of its passage, freshman Sen. Don Chamberlin of Clearwater asked of his colleagues: “Will we sleep better knowing we have institutionalized shame for those who have already felt shame? Is there sufficient justification to deny one child — one parent — the joy of being a family?” In the eyes of Florida’s state senate, there was, indeed, “sufficient justification” to pass the reprehensible ban. Chamberlin’s heartfelt and courageous plea was met with support of only four senators: Betty Castor, Jack Gordon, Kenneth Myers and Lori Wilson.
Joining Florida’s dubious ranks are Utah—a state settled largely for the Mormon Church’s non-conventional marriage practices (discontinued in 1890)—who bans unmarried straight or gay couples from adopting or fostering children, and Mississippi—a state with a less than sterling record in upholding the rights of minorities—who has legislation to ban gay couples, but not single gays, from adopting. What is it about gay couples like Frank Gill and his partner that are so toxic to children? Florida’s current listing of “adoptable” children includes 453 Boys, 274 Girls and 39 Sibling Groups – none of which can be adopted by gay men and women. Having the government (i.e. Katrina bunglers) raise the next generation of Americans seems much more preferential than a loving, stable home with, God forbid, two same-sex parents…
My support for gay adoption will surely be met with hostility and, no doubt, charges of RHINO’ism by many of my colleagues, but the Grand Old Party is at a crossroads and now is not the time for an echo chamber. Homosexual demagoguery is not the answer to the Party’s woes, particularly when gay men and women represent the only demographic in which John McCain bested President Bush (27% to 19% based on exit polling). And as Daniel Blatt notes, gay-hostile rhetoric no longer resonates in suburban areas with soccer moms, many of whom have gay friends or family members, and plays even worse with young voters, 61% of which voted against stripping gay couples of the right to marry.
In this case, the judge ruled that the state of Florida had conflicting statutes in allowing gay couples and single gay people to act as foster parents while denying them the right to adopt children. That does seem rather strange. If gay couples cannot adequately serve as adoptive parents, why would the state allow them to act in the more-risky role of foster parents?
My preference would be to see orphaned children placed in married homes with a mother and father. That would be my preference for all children, as I believe that to be the healthiest environment in the general sense. However, I would much rather see a child adopted by loving single parents or gay couples than raised in orphanages or series of foster homes. While there are many couples waiting for babies through adoption services with wait times as long as five years, many children that are older or who have special needs wait for their entire childhood to find a home.
I’d prefer, though, that any changes to public policy come from the legislature or referendum. The judge was right to note the hypocrisy, but judges should limit themselves to constitutional challenges when it comes to changing law. Our system does not set judges as an unelected star chamber to decide on public policy. The people of Florida may have a rational reason to have two sets of qualifications for foster homes and adoption, even if the judge doesn’t agree with it. If it doesn’t violate the state constitution, then the judge’s role is to enforce the law, not change it.
Also, James is a nice guy — we’ve met a couple of times — but he takes the wrong tone in this challenge. Public adoption is a difficult responsibility, and the opponents of gay adoption are concerned about the welfare of children placed in homes. For some reason, James seems unwilling to credit them with any good motives at all. If he doesn’t want hostility as a response, he might be advised not to offer it as an argument in the first place.
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The whole point of holding principles (in his case conservative) is that you stick to them because you believe in them. If accusations are bigotry are enough to scare people off then they either don’t know what their principles supposedly consist of or don’t really hold them.
aengus on December 1, 2008 at 7:26 PM
Absolutely! Oppose it and gay marriage until they’re banned in all 50 states and the territories. Preserve society’s morals.
KSgop on December 1, 2008 at 7:26 PM
No arguments here. : )
Anna on December 1, 2008 at 7:26 PM
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck… Many of the things said in this thread are bigoted, hateful, and – most of all – ignorant. Stop trying to wrap the shroud of victimhood around yourself. When you say something bigoted, you deserve to be called out on it.
What a crock. Black people were the most solid voting block for the Democrat party, gays less so. The Republican party would win more gay votes if they stopped using homophobic issues as red meat for their rabid evangelicals.
DCGamer on December 1, 2008 at 7:27 PM
**applause**
My collie says:
How come you aren’t as smart as Professor Blather? Stupid dog.
CyberCipher on December 1, 2008 at 7:27 PM
Uh … so you think Casey was better on smaller government and lower taxes (forgetting that Casey is also anti-abortion and wants to meddle in people’s lives that way, too)? Really?
progressoverpeace on December 1, 2008 at 7:27 PM
Don’t tease me…
BadgerHawk on December 1, 2008 at 7:28 PM
Great! Then maybe we could ban divorce, alcohol, usury, adultery, and all the others. Wait….that can’t happen since it would effect heterosexual people. Let’s just pick on the gays instead.
DCGamer on December 1, 2008 at 7:29 PM
Kids deserve both male and female role models in the home. This isn’t always possible, but it is the ideal.
They certainly shouldn’t be placed with role models who openly teach that sexually deviant behavior is normal.
kcewa on December 1, 2008 at 7:30 PM
ditto.
For me, fiscal conservatism.
vermillionsky on December 1, 2008 at 7:30 PM
Infidelity and alcohol are prevalent amongst the gays.
If you asked me to vote, I’d vote against gay adoption. As a platform, I’m for being against it, I suppose.
emailnuevo on December 1, 2008 at 7:30 PM
There was a time when homosexuality was considered a behavior — as deviant a’one as bestiality or pedophilia.
Now public opinion seems to have changed. Interesting how the latter two are still considered deviant.
eforhan on December 1, 2008 at 7:31 PM
This is why I support gay civil unions. But I think marriage is another matter. I don’t think anyone can ban gay adoption in a secular pluralistic society such as our own. As to whether or not it’s a good thing….?
ramrocks on December 1, 2008 at 7:32 PM
Done –
More research is necessary, as in most areas of development, but it doesn’t appear to be an issue.
Look, I’m a Republican because I want less government (taxes, laws, courts) and a strong military. What makes a conservative nanny state any better then a liberal nanny state?
They are both bad!
They can pass a law allowing me to have sex on the street corner with a woman, man, goat, and a monkey at once and it won’t matter if the corner isn’t safe and I can’t afford food for energy and the condoms because of the taxes (of course I could get a subsidized abortion, but come on — you would have to use a condom on a goat, right?)
We have veered way-far from the days when your Mayor and Governor were the most important political people in your life (except for national defense) and maybe it’s time we shifted back.
Oh, and it’s not about where you put your genitals, after all many gay and straight people prefer oral — it is about who you love.
David
LifeTrek on December 1, 2008 at 7:32 PM
Please prove that.
Because I really don’t think you are saying anything that is truthful.
upinak on December 1, 2008 at 7:32 PM
And they are completely unheard of in the straight community! /sarc
Let me give you an example. Two lesbians have been together for 10 years. One is artificially inseminated and gives birth. Should the partner be able to adopt?
DCGamer on December 1, 2008 at 7:33 PM
For raising kids? Traditional values. For balancing a budget? Fiscal conservatism.
(BTW, I hope you meant economic conservatism. Fiscal policy is neither conservative or liberal, it’s limiting the size and reach of gov’t that is conservative.)
kcewa on December 1, 2008 at 7:34 PM
totally agree. Unions do work.. marriage I have a problem with but that is my own opinion.
Adoptions… I don’t see why there is such a hatred against it.
upinak on December 1, 2008 at 7:34 PM
Tochna. That’s exactly my view too, well, sans the animal love. Monkeys give me the creeps.
Anna on December 1, 2008 at 7:35 PM
Gays have been adopting in large numbers for about 20 years now. It’s no longer controversial in many parts of the country and not a single study has been produced which indicates these children are less likely to succeed in life, more likely to have problems with drugs/alcohol or even more or less likely to be gay than the children of two parent heterosexual families. If ANYONE has a study that proves that I’d love to see it. Otherwise, what is the big deal?
DeathToMediaHacks on December 1, 2008 at 7:35 PM
That’s not at all true.
Gay people voted for Bush and McCain in much higher numbers than black people ever did.
Lehosh on December 1, 2008 at 7:35 PM
Interesting point. Why does this issue have to be a GOP problem? Why don’t we ask the Dems to go to the Obama supporters in California who voted for Prop 8 and explain to them why gay adoption is a right?
Why should the GOP have to say anything at all on this issue? Let the Dems defend it. Hehehehe.
ramrocks on December 1, 2008 at 7:36 PM
…nor are they reserved exclusively for homosexuals.
uncivilized on December 1, 2008 at 7:36 PM
Yeah, I was a lazy typer. Fiscal was somehow easier to type than economic… or so I thought. Sorry.
And the question was in regards to the focus of the GOP, not raising children.
Anna on December 1, 2008 at 7:37 PM
Allow me to meditate on it a while longer, since I think I came off as a jerk before. As a Christian and traditionalist, yes, I think that gay adoption is damaging to the psyche, maybe not in all cases, but enough to be cause for concern. Further, I think with gay men’s lifespans being automatically shortened by their lifestyle by about 33%, I wouldn’t want to put a child through that. And, to top it all off, gays innately cannot reproduce – which I distinguish from individual cases of heterosexual couples who can’t procreate for one reason or another. Everything seems to push me against gay adoption. It seems like a cop-out to be against gay marriage, call yourself a conservative, and say, well, nevermind about the adoption! If pressed to vote, I’d vote against gay adoption.
Anyway, there are my two cents. Hope that’s clearer.
(P.S. I meant to say, it’s laughable to think that heterosexuals are just looking out for their own good. We breeders hate each other too much for that sort of teamwork.)
emailnuevo on December 1, 2008 at 7:38 PM
rosie o’donnell had a documentary on hbo a few years ago about her gay cruises. There was one scene where a little girl was having make up put on her for the first time by her two “daddys”. It was a minute or two into the scene that it became very obvious that the little girl was in fact a little boy. There is absolutely no scientific proof that anyone is born guy, absolutely no physical proof. None. Never. Tammy Bruce said in her book “The Death of Right and Wrong” that it is a dirty little secret in the gay community that the majority of gays were molested as children or adolescents.
This thread smells so strongly of moral relativism it’s coming out of my moniter. I hope that those afflicted with it get a good feeling of false superiority.
peacenprosperity on December 1, 2008 at 7:40 PM
You do realize that eating this crap we call.. take out also takes everyone out 33%.
Gay men in general usually eat healthier then anyone, which include lesbian women. So a hetrosexual man or woman who eats at mcdonalds continuously shouldn’t be allowed to adopt either?
Hmmmm, let me think about that one.
And let me ask when people concider normal or traditional (since many think it is one in the same) and I will show you what your normal or traditional is not whateveryone else is.
ugh!
upinak on December 1, 2008 at 7:41 PM
I was addressing just the laughable claim that heterosexuals are just picking on gays. That list of vices is prevalent among gays and heterosexuals, by which I meant that it was a moot point.
emailnuevo on December 1, 2008 at 7:42 PM
born
guygaypeacenprosperity on December 1, 2008 at 7:42 PM
Maybe so, but I have several straight friends who have been married multiple (six or more) times, and gay friends who have been together for 20 years or more. Not disagreeing with you, but it depends on one’s definition of “drama” and “crazy”.
uncivilized on December 1, 2008 at 7:42 PM
What? People are allowed to have their own view on what traditional is?
/
Anna on December 1, 2008 at 7:43 PM
Instead of generalities, let me give you a specific case. Two lesbians have been together for 10 years. One is artificially inseminated and gives birth. Should the partner be able to adopt?
Gays are already having children. Gays are already in stable, long-term relationships. If a gay household meets the standard, why should they not be able to adopt?
DCGamer on December 1, 2008 at 7:43 PM
I agree with you on the party focus. But the debate over gay adoption is about what’s best for the children. Not about what gay’s might want.
It’s best for children to grow up in a society that admits their are men and women, and sex exists to bring them together and for procreation.
It’s just a biological fact.
kcewa on December 1, 2008 at 7:43 PM
on get off the high horse.
I like you, you are usually pretty level headed. But you aren’t God.. I would suggest not “judging”.
upinak on December 1, 2008 at 7:43 PM
“Should the GOP oppose gay adoption?”
What the hell, why not? Then we can ban single parenting, and raise the age of consent to 21, because, after all, we want to make sure that we only put responsible adults in charge of our nation’s children — make that responsible, healthy, God fearing, married, guardians of opposite sexes. After we ban any form of contraception, we should probably make allowing your underage daughters to get pregnant an official form of criminal neglect — and require married folks sans kids to do their part by registering for foster parenthood, thus ensuring there is always someone available to take up the slack. Ideal families, after all, are the name of the Republican game.
Shoot, while we’re at it, let’s make adopting a frozen embryo the prerequisite for adopting a live child, after all the embryos on ice have been accorded their rightful “personhood” in law and declared wards of the state. Only moral reprobates could possibly object. The GOP’s work will not be done till no child is allowed to grow up in anything other than a picture perfect home!
What’s not to like?
JM Hanes on December 1, 2008 at 7:43 PM
the answer to the thread question is…. Yes, of course.
MNDavenotPC on December 1, 2008 at 7:43 PM
No crap? Who da Thunk!
upinak on December 1, 2008 at 7:44 PM
No. But I guess I’m just sick of the GOP putting up candidates that focus so much on social issues, particularly issues I don’t think the government should be involved in.
As to your insinuation that I voted for Casey despite his position on abortion, I don’t consider being anti-abortion as the same type of personal issue as homosexuality. We should be allowed to live our lives as we see fit, as long as we aren’t harming anyone else in the way we do that. I do believe a core function of government is to provide protection against harm by others (both national defense and in rule of law).
vermillionsky on December 1, 2008 at 7:45 PM
I can corroborate this. I have seen the statistics as well. Children that are molested are nearly an order of magnitude more likely to become gay as an adult.
My collie says:
CyberCipher on December 1, 2008 at 7:45 PM
First: the idea that sexuality and eating are even remotely close to the same level is kind of shocking, really. A woman could die in a car accident while a young mother. But that still doesn’t change the fact that the lifespan of a practicing gay man is inherently, regardless of what he eats, much shorter than a heterosexual man. I think, but I don’t know, that it corresponds for women, too.
My tradition is Western tradition, which gave us, among other things, the technology for this conversation. I happen to think my “tradition” is actually valid and worth defending, not just a relative one that I should keep quiet.
emailnuevo on December 1, 2008 at 7:46 PM
Exactly, people need to swallow their pride and realize they have no business telling other people what to do outside of their own property.
Conservatives are really more “permissive” on social issues than liberals. They just need get over the gay issue and realize what a travesty the war on drugs is (I don’t include abortion because its either murder or its not, and that’s a biological question). Liberals on the other hand feel the need to regulate every portion of your life down to what kinds of fats are acceptable for consumption.
libertytexan on December 1, 2008 at 7:47 PM
Please let the dolphins know that they’re doing it wrong – as they also have sex for pleasure. I knew growing up there are men and women… and that how and why I had sex was my own business.
About the children – is it in their best interest to be raised by the state, if there are gay families that will take them and love them? Name me one thing that any state manages efficiently… the foster system will never be on that list.
Anna on December 1, 2008 at 7:47 PM
Well, I’ve never wanted to adopt any gays anyway.
snaggletoothie on December 1, 2008 at 7:48 PM
moot points huh!
Guess you shouldn’t open your mouth concerning someones lifestyle when you don’t have a clue to begin with other then hearsay.
i.e. :
BTW traditions are usually started by the family or a group of individuals. Sometimes, there is no family for children… who raises them? What is that tradition?
upinak on December 1, 2008 at 7:48 PM
Put 50 adult gay men on a remote isolated island that they can’t escape from. Go back to the island in 75 years and see what you find. Either a deserted island or a couple of very old gay men. Put 50 gay adult men on a deserted remote island. The most aggressive one has aids and a scarlett “A” tattooed on his forehead. Go back in 10 years and see what you find. Most likely a deserted island.
I always find it interesting reading obituaries in papers or magazines about some gay guy that died of aids and it always notes that he’s survived by his partner of 30 years. Right. Why not add some innocent children to that equation.
peacenprosperity on December 1, 2008 at 7:49 PM
Practicing gay man? What the hell is that? Is there a practicing straight man? What are they practicing for? Do you realize how ignorant this sounds? Do you think this kind of talk is going to win independant votes?
DCGamer on December 1, 2008 at 7:49 PM
If you really mean that, it’s great I suppose. Given modern biotech, I see gaybies with chromosomes from both partners soon. However, there are a lot of kids who need parents now.
thuja on December 1, 2008 at 7:49 PM
We’re not dolphins.
Who said that sex can’t be pleasurable?
kcewa on December 1, 2008 at 7:50 PM
Then, on the other hand, from a fiscal standpoint, the Republicans were indistinguishable from Democrats from 2001 – 2008. So if they are fiscal Democrats, and if they ignore the social-con issues (as you suggest), what’s left?
My collie says:
CyberCipher on December 1, 2008 at 7:51 PM
Just ignore facts. In a manifest universe “judgeing” is unavoidable if you want to survive.
peacenprosperity on December 1, 2008 at 7:51 PM
Waiting for a refutation. Some animals eat their young. That proves nothing.
I already said that the infidelity/alcoholism affects both sides, so don’t act like its just something heteros are trying to overlook.
Western tradition was pretty much started by the West.
Practicing, active, whatever adjective you’d like.
I do like the agents of tolerance screaming “Ignorant! Stupid! Bigot!” Good times.
emailnuevo on December 1, 2008 at 7:52 PM
I think it’s a hot button issue because people disagree with the gay lifestyle. And there is a lot to be said for some of the instability of gay men in their relationships. However, if they meet the screening criteria (I think it should be very stringent) then considering that we are a secular democracy, I don’t see how anyone can argue against allowing them to adopt. However, I agree with everyone who said that placing a child in a home with a mother and a father should get priority. And I also support the Catholic Church’s decision in Massachusetts to get out of the adoption business because they could not in good conscience place kids in gay homes. Tolerance goes both ways. No one should be forced to voice their approval of a lifestyle that they disagree with. I think that’s fundamentally what raises the ire of religious people and social conservatives. They don’t want to be forced into acceptance of something their faith tells them is wrong.
We need to develop a live and let live attitude in our culture. And we need to remind people of the concept of the social contract which this country was founded on. Religious people should not impose their beliefs on the public, but secular people have no business forcing acceptance of their beliefs on the public either.
ramrocks on December 1, 2008 at 7:53 PM
It’s in their best interest to be taught the truth.
kcewa on December 1, 2008 at 7:53 PM
then why don’t you go to your bible and find where it says that only God shall judge.
Not my problem if you say one thing and yet it comes out of both sides of your mouth.
upinak on December 1, 2008 at 7:54 PM
What is your point? Put 50 social conservatives or religious fundamentalists on the same island. Go back in 5 years. They will have executed each other as punishment for a breach of the moral code they used to judge others.
DCGamer on December 1, 2008 at 7:54 PM
I was making the point that sex is about more than procreation or even bonding a man and a woman (which is how I read what you typed). It is also a lot of fun, and not all of us ascribe to a more restricted view of with whom and how to have sex.
Anna on December 1, 2008 at 7:54 PM
I can say no more. You’ve said it all.
MadisonConservative on December 1, 2008 at 7:55 PM
They know gender roles, gender identity, and are not influenced in their sexual orientation.
LifeTrek on December 1, 2008 at 7:55 PM
It’s not moral relativism. Allowing gays to adopt is morally superior to excluding them.
RightOFLeft on December 1, 2008 at 7:55 PM
That passage means that the standard by which you judge others will be used to judge you.
The next part says, applicably enough, to not give that which is holy to the dogs. Or, people who try to bastardize Bible verses.
Loving the tolerance! Bring on progress!
emailnuevo on December 1, 2008 at 7:55 PM
The GOP should not only embrace gay adoption, but civil unions too.
I always thought conservatives/Republicans want to promote stable households and ensure children grew up with loving parents. Excluding gays from this equation, doesn’t make any sense.
Frank T.J Mackey on December 1, 2008 at 7:56 PM
The lifespan of Non-White people is less than that of White people; let’s limit their rights…
The Dean on December 1, 2008 at 7:56 PM
Good point, but we are talking about the difference between no parents or two gay parents. If they are kind, loving, stable people, then it sure beats not having a family.
Laura in Maryland on December 1, 2008 at 7:56 PM
TRC,
If basic aspects of traditional morality are an electoral death knell then the GOP as a vehicle for conservative values is finished anyway.
So what difference does it make if the Republicans or the Democrats win elections? The Republicans stand for a mythical small government which never comes to fruition.
aengus on December 1, 2008 at 7:56 PM
The alimentary canal is meant for excreting waste, not for sexual activity. Whether you call it practice, act whatever, it is not a natural thing and it is harmful. If you are atheist, what is the biological purpose of people who committ acts that harm themselves? If you believe in God, why would God create some people who harm themselves? Ever since medical statistics and demographics have been followed, homosexual men have been the most diseased. Their problems did not begin with aids.
peacenprosperity on December 1, 2008 at 7:56 PM
Adopting children is not a right.
peacenprosperity on December 1, 2008 at 7:57 PM
totally agree.
I have been through the adoption part. I can not tell you the amount of paperwork I had to fill out (and I was the birth mother) for the parents of my child they were to adopt. it is a literal mess.
BUT! And someone will jump on me I assume… why let people adopt children out of the U.S. if we have so many here to begin with?
Because people are stupid and think that a child who is 3 yrs or older is Tarnished and Not Good Enough.
If I was able to (as a birth mom I will never be allowed to adopt a child, as per stipulation in law) I would adopt now. I really do not understand why people try so hard to adopt on the outside though. It makes me angry honestly.
upinak on December 1, 2008 at 7:58 PM
What truth? The truth that there are some people out there that believe it is better for children to languish in horrid foster care than to be placed with people that might actually *gasp* love them?
Seriously, which truth? And before you answer that, please read if you already haven’t my comment here.
Anna on December 1, 2008 at 7:58 PM
Not as significantly, and not based on sexual choices.
Are we really arguing about reaching out to win elections after getting our clocks cleaned with Maverick?
emailnuevo on December 1, 2008 at 7:58 PM
So what other extreme neurosis are being excluded?
peacenprosperity on December 1, 2008 at 7:58 PM
Nice try there saintolaf.
upinak on December 1, 2008 at 7:59 PM
‘
You do realize it’s the rights and best interest of the child in question?
We’re not talking about the right to own a pet, here.
eforhan on December 1, 2008 at 7:59 PM
Laura, you are aware that your argument clearly implies that adoption by lesbian couples is superior to heterosexual couples? I think your argument is clearly wrong, because sexual molestation by men is offset by the greater tendency towards physical and mental cruelty by women.
thuja on December 1, 2008 at 8:00 PM
1)Not Greek Orthodox, and I hate Huckabee.
2)More names! Tolerance!
emailnuevo on December 1, 2008 at 8:00 PM
I agree it’s about more, but I believe it can’t be seperated from the bonding and procreation functions without damage.
kcewa on December 1, 2008 at 8:00 PM
Because we all know there has never been a straight couple that’s engaged in ‘backdoor’ action. Ever.
Anna on December 1, 2008 at 8:00 PM
Sorry. Not buyin’ it. Hypocrites come in more flavors than social conservatives and/or evangelicals.
The truth is, within two generations, the people on the island would be almost indistinguishable from our current societal cross-section/make-up.
My collie says:
CyberCipher on December 1, 2008 at 8:01 PM
I LOL at that statement!
upinak on December 1, 2008 at 8:02 PM
Have you ever had a blow job? The mouth is meant for ingesting food, not for sexual activity.
Are you willing to bet your immortal soul on the fact that God did not create homosexual people? Is it not possible for your mind to conceive the idea that maybe – just maybe – God did create homosexual people? Do you claim to know the reasons for all of God’s creations?
DCGamer on December 1, 2008 at 8:02 PM
Agreed, the child’s interest should be paramount.
kcewa on December 1, 2008 at 8:02 PM
I’m honestly not sure on the bonding, but yes to the separation between sex and procreation. In some cases, the separation can prevent damage to a relationship – it would in our case, where we already have three children and cannot afford another at this time.
Anna on December 1, 2008 at 8:03 PM
I failed at typing that with a straight face, though I tried mightily.
Anna on December 1, 2008 at 8:04 PM
Homosexuality isn’t a neurosis. There is no factual basis for making that claim.
RightOFLeft on December 1, 2008 at 8:05 PM
I’ll say one thing, I’m willing to bet that gay groups would have no problem being VERY VOCAL about trying to get religious families, who espouse the sin of homosexuality (or even secular families who think homosexuality is aberrant and not to be promoted), banned from adoptions. I think the reactions to prop 8 show where this is all headed, and if the gays win, they just push for more. Look to Canada and their emerging thought-crime boards for some hints.
progressoverpeace on December 1, 2008 at 8:06 PM
For more than half of my lifetime, the vast majority of straights would have challenged your assertion. Of course, that was BEFORE the pervasiveness of internet pornography.
My collie says:
CyberCipher on December 1, 2008 at 8:07 PM
How do they go about enforcing the ban? If it is just a ban on adoption by unmarried couples, that could be bypassed by a one of a homosexual couple marrying someone of the opposite gender, getting a divorce once the adoption is final, with the other giving up custody. If it enforced by some kind of statement on pain of perjury, what is the threshold for prosecution? I’m not a huge fan of “gay parenting,” but I do like laws to be unambiguous.
Otherwise, I can see the state having an interest in preventing the adoption of children in the custody of the state by “gay parents,” but there may be an individual rights issue with preventing adoptions that amount to the transfer of custody from one private individual to another.
Also, I am uneasy about adoptions by homosexual couples or single parents, but when thinking about it, I always come up against a conflict with the fact that we don’t (and don’t want to) take children away from widow/widowers and divorcees.
Count to 10 on December 1, 2008 at 8:10 PM
Let’s say that one state passed by popular referendum a measure making it illegal for Christians to marry. Would you say, “oh, well, we live in a democracy and the majority has spoken,” or would you fight like hell to overturn such a stupid decision?
I do not support any vandalism or violence, but other than that I have no problem with the protest marches. This is a separate issue, however.
DCGamer on December 1, 2008 at 8:10 PM
The three large social battles we have fought, two have been decided….
Slavery, which was never a condition, but never condemned biblicaly (but certainly condoned). For many years the South would state that slavery was “part of life”, and point to the bible as authority, but we fought that and overturned that condition.
From the beginning of time women had no say, no power, and the bible (at least from Paul’s perspective) really had no say or sense within church or society. That has been dispelled and only the few “sola scriptura. scriptura sola” churches keep that tenet alive.
Now we are faced with the final scriptural statement; homosexuality is wrong.
The bible say it so, yet in not so strong of language as many people would like…and the other two were accepted by the bible.
So now we are faced with how to handle two people who fall in love, and can’t share that love with a family?
Aren’t we as conservatives bound to embrace a strong family, denounce the broken family? And if a gay union is better then a hetero marriage, which one is better for society, and better for our country?
I state, unless there are facts proving otherwise, that a strong committed relationship is better then a broken one, when raising children.
After all, isn’t children our most precious commodity…and if we value the sanctity of life of a newborn, shouldn’t we also want that life to have the best that life has to offer?
No where can I find that scriptural homosexuals are not to love and care for children. It may be wrong, but isn’t lust and greed on the same par?
right2bright on December 1, 2008 at 8:10 PM
OK. On procreation I was talking about the person who believes they have a right to have sex and then abort if it results in pregnancy.
Not your situation.
kcewa on December 1, 2008 at 8:11 PM
**Pets Collie**
But CC and Collie, Cleopatra was notorious for … ahem… different exchanges of sexual favors to get what she wanted. Including “back door action” and a child.
upinak on December 1, 2008 at 8:12 PM
Of course they would have denied it. People weren’t as open back then. But it’s been around, documented for centuries. As has out-of-wedlock pregnancy, adultry, all sorts of things.
Your dog is right, at least as far as his and your personal belief systems go. There are plenty of people who would call it natural, even pleasurable… chances are, their religion would differ from yours.
Anna on December 1, 2008 at 8:13 PM
They’d also be in denial. I don’t care how old you are, straight couples have engaged in anal sex commonly for your entire life. “Technical virgin” isn’t a recent concept.
justfinethanks on December 1, 2008 at 8:13 PM
That’s not true. Black women are 25 times more likely to get AIDS than white women.
Lehosh on December 1, 2008 at 8:13 PM
Are you prepared to entertain the idea that demons just might be real? Could it be possible that humans have an invisible, immortal soul? Could it be that Satan really DOES exist, and that he schnookers people into choosing an eternity of being burned in either a literal or figurative “lake of fire”?
My collie says:
I assure you, I am not the one that is betting my soul.
CyberCipher on December 1, 2008 at 8:13 PM
That’s not just a separation, that’s premeditated murder. IMHO, though.
Anna on December 1, 2008 at 8:15 PM
This is a hard one. I have a few friends who were straight. Then the men decided they liked men. Divorced their wives and a few got custody of the kids. They are happy, loving and very smart kids. I feel a man and a woman should only. But then, look at all the children here in our Country that cannot get adopted. Give them mental tests, have the home looked at. I don’t know, It is a hard one. A lot of children here that need love and a family.
sheebe on December 1, 2008 at 8:15 PM
I think CC should pimp out the collie and have mini-me collies.
I would bank on Collie AKC, that they would be concidered “highly” prized.
upinak on December 1, 2008 at 8:15 PM
Saint in the front, martyr behind.
Anna on December 1, 2008 at 8:15 PM
I keep seeing it repeated here as if it is a proven fact, but is everyone certain about their assertions that gays drop off earlier because of their unhealthy lifestyle?
David
LifeTrek on December 1, 2008 at 8:16 PM
I’m not a dog person, but I do think collies are good dogs. Especially CC’s, even if we don’t always agree. : )
Anna on December 1, 2008 at 8:16 PM
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