Caught on tape: Stick time for captured Mumbai jihadist
posted at 4:17 pm on December 1, 2008 by Allahpundit
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The moment of arrest. Accounts vary on how it went down: Sky says he and another jihadi were trying to escape in a stolen car when the tires were blown out while the Journal claims they stopped voluntarily when they encountered a police roadblock. The turd seen being stomped here jumped out, shot at least one cop dead, and was set upon either by the remaining police, the crowd, or some combo thereof. Watch, then read on.
Why didn’t that happen elsewhere? The only detail more amazing than how few gunmen there were — 10 by most accounts, although Indian security thinks there could be five more on the lam or as many as 13 if you count logistical support — is how they managed to move through the streets of a city of 18 million people without stumbling around a corner or into some other area where they might be surprised from behind. Read WaPo’s account of jihadis firing inside the railway station and from the sidewalk outside an outdoor cafe for minutes on end and then leaving unobstructed. Here in NYC, with the NYPD never more than a few blocks away, that’s unimaginable. The Journal explains the difference:
B.S. Sidhu, head of the Railway Protection Force for the Mumbai region, says that while some officers tried to fight back, there was little his force could do. Most police officers at the station — as they are throughout India — were unarmed or carried only bamboo sticks known as lathis. More than 40 people, including three police officers, were killed in just a few minutes, authorities said. The wounded survivors screamed for help amid acrid smoke, piles of slumped, bloodied bodies and spilling suitcases…
At about 9:45 p.m., two gunmen, slender and in their mid-20s, ran up the circular driveway at the entrance to the Trident. They shot the security guard and two bellhops. The hotel had metal detectors, but none of its security personnel carried weapons because of the difficulties in obtaining gun permits from the Indian government, according to the hotel company’s chairman, P.R.S. Oberoi.
Some cops who did have guns didn’t fire back. “We’re talking about an early 20th century police system trying to deal with a 21st century threat,” one Indian analyst told the LA Times in a piece brimming with painful details to support his thesis. They had intel suggesting that something was up too, including info that the attack would come by sea and that the Taj hotel could be targeted, but it was “lost in the system.” India’s head of national security is already out, but needless to say, the reforms that are coming will go a lot further than just personnel changes. Modernizing weaponry, intel, training, and command and control is the beginning; expect U.S. and Israeli security coordination with India to become much closer, also needless to say. Exit invitation: Look at this face.
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Can’t we all just get along?
Akzed on December 1, 2008 at 4:20 PM
But I thought Michael Moore has explained that the presence of police with guns in the U.S. illustrates why the U.S. is so much more danagerous than the rest of the world.
RedSoxNation on December 1, 2008 at 4:23 PM
Wow.
lodge on December 1, 2008 at 4:24 PM
Awesome. That creep deserves all the beatings and more.
India is in desperate need of defense training on all levels.
jencab on December 1, 2008 at 4:25 PM
Poor kid at the last link. Hopefully he’s too young for those memories to stick.
BadgerHawk on December 1, 2008 at 4:27 PM
The photographer was able to follow the gunmen better than the police. I love how we’ve introduced our corporate jargon to India. “Yeah, man. They were shooting from the hip.”
chunderroad on December 1, 2008 at 4:29 PM
A reminder about the UK police force:
Uniforms, the issuing of firearms, type of patrol cars and other equipment varies by force. Unlike police in other developed countries, the vast majority of British police officers do not carry firearms on standard patrol; they do however carry Extendable “Asp” or fixed Monadnock PR-24 batons and CS/PAVA spray.
I’m sure spray and batons would be really helpful against Uzi’s.
wtis02575 on December 1, 2008 at 4:31 PM
HOLY COW! I feel for that child. But did anyone scope the rest of the article. It looked like a nuclear explosion!
upinak on December 1, 2008 at 4:31 PM
Is Moore straight Al Qaeda or some homegrown faction?
snaggletoothie on December 1, 2008 at 4:32 PM
Life is cheap in India. I’m not surprised by the indifference.
travel on any “highway” in that country (an act deserving of a medal) and I you’ll see horrific carnage from accidents.
It takes forever for help to arrive and is treated as routine.
mylegsareswollen on December 1, 2008 at 4:32 PM
Yeah, well some 20th century guns would have helped. A lot.
Buy Danish on December 1, 2008 at 4:32 PM
The gunmen accomplished nothing more than killing a bunch of mostly unarmed people. India has well over a billion more mostly unarmed people left. Don’t expect much of a response.
pedestrian on December 1, 2008 at 4:34 PM
That’s one brave photographer.
Fletch54 on December 1, 2008 at 4:35 PM
John McCain and other democrats will condemn the torture of this terrorist. India is better than that, afterall.
SouthernGent on December 1, 2008 at 4:35 PM
In Israel they would have been shot dead a lot quicker.
Hilts on December 1, 2008 at 4:36 PM
Arggh. Make that [using] some 20th century guns would have helped. a lot.
Buy Danish on December 1, 2008 at 4:37 PM
dont worry, I think more people are having that type of day then you realize.
upinak on December 1, 2008 at 4:38 PM
If donations for the “Train Moshe Holtzberg To Become The Most Badass Mossad Agent Who Has Ever Lived” fund ever materializes, I certainly will hit that PayPal link.
ScottMcC on December 1, 2008 at 4:38 PM
Just like in England, pardon me OldEnglish, in the United Kingdom.
Entelechy on December 1, 2008 at 4:38 PM
Is this Ghandi’s legacy?
Buy Danish on December 1, 2008 at 4:41 PM
I noticed an article in the WP today regarding the Plaxico burress incident and calling for renewed attempts to do away with the 2nd Amendment because pro football thugs like to play with guns. Any excuse will do.
Amazingly lax procedures on the part of India. They need a new mindset as well as an overhaul on the technical side.
a capella on December 1, 2008 at 4:41 PM
In a just and sane world the picture of the two-year old orphan would become the poster child at the U.N. on all things terrible.
Instead those bastards will now be invited to ‘lead’ the world.
62 million Americans are complete moronic dust mites, on the dole. Nothing else matters to them, except “how much is in it for me”, one-world Utopian bullcaca, ‘world peace’, and all the other nonsense. Wake up world. It’s almost too late.
Entelechy on December 1, 2008 at 4:42 PM
“We must also engage, however, in the more difficult task of understanding the sources of such madness. The essence of this tragedy, it seems to me, derives from a fundamental absence of empathy on the part of the attackers: an inability to imagine, or connect with, the humanity and suffering of others. Such a failure of empathy, such numbness to the pain of a child or the desperation of a parent, is not innate; nor, history tells us, is it unique to a particular culture, religion, or ethnicity. It may find expression in a particular brand of violence, and may be channeled by particular demagogues or fanatics. Most often, though, it grows out of a climate of poverty and ignorance, helplessness and despair.” — Barack Obama, September 19, 2001
Heaven help us all.
Y-not on December 1, 2008 at 4:44 PM
Speaking of England, er, the United Kingdom, here is the ever wise Melanie Philips issuing a warning to the Brits to wake up.
Buy Danish on December 1, 2008 at 4:46 PM
“Firing from the hip” – Typical half-assed training of hajjis. Professional Western soldiers aim their weapons.
Tony737 on December 1, 2008 at 4:46 PM
Interesting piece over on ACE about how some of the transit cops were armed with World War 1 vintage Enfield bolt-action rifles. At first glance, this would seem ridiculous in the face of AK-47’s and Uzi’s but a well-trained rifleman can pump out 20 aimed shots a minute. The terrorists were spraying and praying. Even a couple of rounds would have got their attention and they would have stopped slaughtering the unarmed people.
Just sickened by the whole thing.
J.J. Sefton on December 1, 2008 at 4:46 PM
A sad commentary on humanity – many of us have been successfully bred to be passive cowards. Generation upon generation of brainwashed, emasculated, spineless cattle; the essential animal instinct for survival has been raped away by sociopathic collectivist indoctrination.
LimeyGeek on December 1, 2008 at 4:46 PM
How come on threads like this one we never see crr6, benny shaker, Nonfactor, and their ilk? How come? Come by and defend yourselves, you chickensh*ts.
Entelechy on December 1, 2008 at 4:47 PM
He’s just a “confused kid” caught up in the euphoria of “Obama-mania”. No need to beat him half to death. You guys are acting like he is the first “good terrorist gone bad”. Ha!
RMR on December 1, 2008 at 4:50 PM
Buy Danish, indeed – here’s the morsel, and a major fix:
Entelechy on December 1, 2008 at 4:51 PM
Legacy of the British police model: “alright then, just move along. And if your lady friend has imbibed too much and is wearing high heels, here are some sandals for her.”
rbj on December 1, 2008 at 4:53 PM
Accidentally, this nitwit’s supporters have also grown off a climate of poverty and ignorance, helplessness and despair.
Perhaps there is a pattern here.
Aristotle on December 1, 2008 at 4:54 PM
Should of put the boots about ye,eh!
It really seems rare that the thug gets beaten up,or
smacked around with sticks,but this clown deserves the
fireing squad!
In Canada,the arresting police officer,would be under
investigation and probably sued!
But I say,throw caution to the wind and beat the snot*
out of said Jihady,and to h#ll with political correctness!
*(canopfor regrets the use of the word snot,as it is the
supper hour,and should of went with mucous membranes,
instead!):)
canopfor on December 1, 2008 at 4:55 PM
I was doing some Ops in Egypt back in the 80’s. We came upon a car accident and there were 2 dead guys in the car but no one seemed too upset about it. Traffic just went around the dead guys in the wreck. I came back through there a couple of days later and they were still there. All black and swollen. I’m not sure if it’s true but someone there told me that if someone dies suddenly like that then they aren’t allowed to touch the bodies for 3 days to give the Spirit time to leave or something.
People don’t seem to realize how different the west views death as opposed to other parts of the world. To us it’s a shocking tragedy. To them it’s another day in ____(fill in the blank).
Guardian on December 1, 2008 at 5:03 PM
Those rifles fire a .303 round, fairly similar to our .308 or 30-06, with quite a bit more energy than the rounds fired by the jihadis. A couple of torso shots or a head shot at the close-medium ranges I’ve seen depicted would have worked famously. Decent placement and game is over. I’ve seen some reports claiming the lower echelon troops aren’t routinely issued ammo. Shameful, if true.
a capella on December 1, 2008 at 5:05 PM
The injustice to these victims is not over. Precious Muslims are at risk in Iraq and Afghanistan and any other Islamic sh!thole America calls a friend. India can’t be allowed to rock the boat when there is a chance to purple a finger and make Texans out of Talibans. This fire will be blanketed by the US most of all. There will be no justice for India allowed.
BL@KBIRD on December 1, 2008 at 5:08 PM
Well clearly this was the work of fanatical neocons designed to fool people into thinking Moore was wrong…
ReformedAndDangerous on December 1, 2008 at 5:12 PM
If there was ever an indicator that gun control is a bad idea, this is it. Can you imagine these guys trying this crap in Texas? Thousands of shotguns come out from window racks…
JunkCoast on December 1, 2008 at 5:13 PM
Pacifism is a bad idea.
Buy Danish on December 1, 2008 at 5:19 PM
My advice would be: never take a bamboo stick to a gunfight.
Tim Zank on December 1, 2008 at 5:19 PM
Lets send Johnny Sutton to prosecute these officers
It will serve 2 purposes :
1. US will gain loyalty of muslims
2. US will get a wipe – off the shame of Gitmo
macncheez on December 1, 2008 at 5:19 PM
That’s if they had made it to their target destinations in the first place. Did you read the account of their travels given by the surviving terrorist? They hijacked an Indian boat and were stopped for questioning by a couple of coast guard agents (one of whom they killed, and one of whom they forced to steer them to their destination before killing), then came ashore and were seen acting suspiciously by some port authority guy (who did nothing but ask them what they were doing — they told him to butt out, and he did).
It’s hard to imagine Israeli security being so incredibly lax.
AZCoyote on December 1, 2008 at 5:23 PM
They are all prolly converted to .308 by now, but the Ishapore armory did convert some Enfeilds to .410…for riot control, I guess.
pseudonominus on December 1, 2008 at 5:25 PM
Guardian,
Ditto here on the ’80’s.. Except I was there with GIS (TI’s Oil Exploration division). What got me was the night-time death wish – driving with no lights on – Insha’Allah..
DanM on December 1, 2008 at 5:44 PM
I read that account. Really creepy stuff – right out of a movie kind of accounts. Unbelievable that the Coast Guard was so defenseless. Between this and the Somali pirates, it’s time for all ships operating in these waters to be armed.
Buy Danish on December 1, 2008 at 5:55 PM
No quarter.
SouthernDem on December 1, 2008 at 6:18 PM
Hell, I was strip searched in Israel because I had visited Jordan and the West Bank on business.
They don’t fart around.
mylegsareswollen on December 1, 2008 at 6:46 PM
Limey,
Did you hear about that train trip from hell in France a few years ago? It was New Year’s Day on a non-stop between two cities, about 600 passengers and 20 “youths” (as they call their young and frisky moslems over there). The youths boarded the train and while it was en route proceeded to rob, pillage, assault their way from car to car without encountering any resistance. 600 sheep. Asked later why they did nothing, the typical reply went like this: ” Defending myself? You think I’m in the army or something?”
This is a long-winded way of agreeing completely with you.
dhimwit on December 1, 2008 at 6:57 PM
Deepak Chopra and his hollywood friends tell me that hinduism and buddhism are superior to christianity and that indian culture and practices are more spiritual than christianity. i am glad to have witnessed this brazen display of indian cultural and spiritual superiority.
eaglewingz08 on December 1, 2008 at 7:07 PM
FIFY.
Oh, and the Malkins to actually use them.
TinMan13 on December 1, 2008 at 7:52 PM
Pictured: Tears of the two-year-old boy trapped in Mumbai Jewish centre as his parents were murdered
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1090887/Pictured-Tears-year-old-boy-trapped-Mumbai-Jewish-centre-parents-murdered.html?ITO=1490
Wow!!
These are the butchers that liberals get their panties all up in a wad over if we keep them up late or pour water over their faces to get information to stop more attacks like this.
Baxter Greene on December 1, 2008 at 7:52 PM
The reporter acts horrified that the cops kept beating him even though he was down! I would have killed him! The “moral equivalent” comment was implied.
When I saw the face of that child and saw what they did to that Chabad house, I wanted to kill a terrorist by my own hands.
PattyJ on December 1, 2008 at 8:32 PM
Nothing beats an armed and well-practiced citizenry.
Thank-you to the founding fathers for what they have bequeathed to us. May we all take a lesson from this and go out an buy more guns before some idiots in office attempt to make us sheep also.
AZfederalist on December 1, 2008 at 9:00 PM
I have discovered a new word – hoplophobia, I first posted this over at Freerepublic. Hoplo comes from Greek for the shield that the Hoplite soldiers carried, and phobia comes from Latin for uh, er, umm. phobia.
Hoplophobia – fear of weapons, particularly guns.
Do not confuse this with hooplophobia or Hopalophobia.
Pelayo on December 1, 2008 at 9:05 PM
The cops, no guns, afraid to fire syndrom is from the British influence in India. No doubt Muslim slime know this of course and exploit it. They tortured the Jews brutally many report indicate prior to killing them. There are Chabad houses all around the world. The one I’m familiar with in a SE Asia country is poorly defended. Might change after this. If you see the garbage that is floating in the port outside of the Taj, or have witnessed the smells of this business paradise, you see and live the culture of these “people of color” and their total lack of awareness. This is brought on by liberal thinkers and authoritarian rulers who treat the masses as scum. They are no less in day to day reality than animals trying to figure out where their next meal is coming from. Why even their cows get more respect and care than most of the people of the street or countryside. Not to fear, Hillary will broom to the rescue and help Obama bring about world order out of this morass of mad muslims gone wild. Of course he has to take care of the lady who will get her gas tank filled and rent paid first.
wepeople on December 1, 2008 at 9:10 PM
Unbelievable. Uncivilized barbarians. Radical islam needs to be excised from this earth.
Zorro on December 1, 2008 at 9:23 PM
Just wait till Obama flashes his smile, brushes off his shoulders, and talks hopefully about change. That’ll teach ‘em.
Mojave Mark on December 1, 2008 at 10:09 PM
Another excellent example of a gun free zone. The liberals must be delighted to see it work so well.
csdeven on December 1, 2008 at 10:12 PM
That says it all.
91Veteran on December 2, 2008 at 2:40 AM
Meanwhile, the muslim ladies were at home, spawning.
Kralizec on December 2, 2008 at 7:01 AM
I’m giving Nonfactor his beating in absentia.
Kralizec on December 2, 2008 at 7:12 AM
I only hope they were read their rights, not water boarded or stripped naked in the presence of women.
moxie_neanderthal on December 2, 2008 at 8:29 AM
Always amazed at how many folks here jump on the “it could never happen here” bandwagon. Why are you so eager to invite it? Pick any city in the U.S where there are simultaneous attacks by people with machine guns in various shopping malls and you think it would be over in minutes with few casualties? For God’s sake, when Columbine went down the brave SWAT guys hid behind buses and fire trucks for 4 HOURS while they “secured the perimeter”…
yubley on December 2, 2008 at 11:44 AM
I agree with the liberals–we need to understand the feelings of the muslims/terrorists. We need to have an understanding of where they are coming from. Then, we need to go there and kill them.
TimothyJ on December 2, 2008 at 11:45 AM
Yubley: Current tactical doctrine concerning active killers has abandoned that perimeter crap.
The first responder goes in immediately alone, period. The second through fifth form a fireteam and follow. SWAT gets there when it can. Each second spend waiting equals an additional casualty.
What happened with the police in India was a massive training failure … a bunch of decision makers need to fall on their swords here. If your training for a given situation consists of nothing … then you will probably do just that: Nothing.
Kristopher on December 2, 2008 at 4:22 PM
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