Zogby on 2012: Palin leads among Republicans, Romney leads among all voters
posted at 4:30 pm on November 28, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Check that: Romney barely leads among all voters, within the margin of error. But here’s evidence, in case more was needed, of how sharply conservatives’ view of the ‘Cuda diverges from America’s. Among Republicans, it’s Palin 24.4, Mitt 18.1, Jindal 15.6; among everyone, Mitt 13.7, Palin 13.4, Jindal 12.5.
What happened to Huck, who was in the thick of things when Gallup recently asked a similar question? Palin happened to Huck:
Among Republicans, she gets the support of 30% of Born-Again Christians, 32% of weekly churchgoers, 34% of National Rifle Association members, 28% of current gun owners and 29% of self-identified conservatives. More GOP support comes from 32% of blue collar workers, 30% who shop weekly at Wal-Mart, 28% of NASCAR fans and 25% of both those with children under 17 and those with family members in the military…
Palin looks to be stealing Huckabee’s thunder among Republican religious conservatives and working class voters. Huckabee is an ordained Southern Baptist minister, and his highest GOP totals still come from Born-Again Christians (15%) and weekly churchgoers (18%), but those numbers are about half of those drawn by Palin. Despite his populist economic message, he wins only 10% of blue collar Republicans.
There’s your explanation for why he’s been taking shots at her lately, in case it wasn’t already clear. Interesting to see Jindal’s numbers so high, though, given how comparatively low his profile is and how poorly he fared in the Gallup poll. As another young rock-star “future of the party” governor, I wonder if he isn’t peeling votes away from Palin among people who’ve soured on her for whatever reason. Exit invitation: Go ahead and tell me that the only reason she polls so much lower among all voters is because Democrats fear her. You know you want to.
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We arent talking about Biden, we are talking about Palin.
Squid Shark on November 29, 2008 at 7:23 PM
I agree wholeheartedly, Biden is a buffoon.
Squid Shark on November 29, 2008 at 7:23 PM
Right. And your perception of Palin’s “bloviating” in that instance makes her totally unfit for higher office. Right.
ddrintn on November 29, 2008 at 7:24 PM
Remember Biden is and was speaking on behalf of Obama and that has been a consistent position of his for 2 years. Sarah was only stating the truth, and often the truth hurts.I don’t really care that Sarah brought the subject up as a debating non sequitur or not-the truth again is the truth.
technopeasant on November 29, 2008 at 7:25 PM
You aren’t gonna win here Squid Shark. Just smile sweetly and walk away.
gracie on November 29, 2008 at 7:26 PM
I dont have the energy. Appreciate the advice.
Squid Shark on November 29, 2008 at 7:29 PM
Here’s the problem I have. I’m not exactly a “Palinmaniac”, but I’m also not going to judge her based solely on this past campaign. To do so is merely buying into the MSM/ entertainment industry slime job. The 2012 campaign is far off, but I’m not going to follow the herd and write Palin off just because of Tina Fey or Katie Couric. Palin has to be heard in her own right, in her own campaign (if she chooses to run), and I’m not going to let the likes of Keith Olbermann color my impression of her.
ddrintn on November 29, 2008 at 7:29 PM
Sarah Palin is like *iagra (fill in the “V”..the blog won’t let me say it.) She makes people feel good about now and tomorrow. BO and his entourage are so damn depressing.
gracie on November 29, 2008 at 7:33 PM
There was nothing wrong with what she said. It’s just this constant over analyzing of every small thing out of context.
the_nile on November 29, 2008 at 7:33 PM
Sink me. The United States seems to be devolving into a nation that exiles it’s statesmen and exalts it’s buffoons.
PercyB on November 29, 2008 at 7:41 PM
There it is.
That’s all.
Well, I chose to have a gentlemanly discussion with you, but you blew me off.
You seem more content to gibe.
Saltysam on November 29, 2008 at 7:42 PM
Why is there no speculation by the MSM that Joe Biden may go down as the worst VP in American history? Do you have to be a Republican buffoon to qualify for such a title? I always thought buffoonery was no respecter of persons.
technopeasant on November 29, 2008 at 7:45 PM
Maybe because he hasn’t been inaugurated yet.
Noneya on November 29, 2008 at 7:52 PM
Did anyone see the picture where Obama’s likeness is now represented on Mount Rushmore? Is the gold standard now in 21st C politics that all you have to do to qualify for memorialization is to get elected to the Presidency? Whatever happened to reward based on accomplishment?
technopeasant on November 29, 2008 at 7:54 PM
Charlie Cook:
Noneya on November 29, 2008 at 7:55 PM
This is how clueless the social cons are. No one said Ivy league but rather actual education in something relevant. Palin has a degree in Journalism. Social cons are still playing class warfare and want to vote for a dumb candidate like them.
Could this be all the fiscal conservatives in the party saying the same thing they have always been saying? It is easier for the clueless social cons to dream up conspiracies.
This just proves Palin fanboys cannot do any research. YOU ARE WRONG, Wasilla’s population is currently 7,028. Palin was elected mayor by only 909 votes while Biden got 79,754 Primary Votes. Please keep embarrassing yourself with repeating all the wrong things you hear, you make it too easy for me.
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 7:56 PM
It’s the NOW mentality , living on borrowed time and money.
the_nile on November 29, 2008 at 7:58 PM
*sigh*
Can’t hardly believe you folks are giving THIS much weight to an unscientific INTERNET poll… zogby or no zogby.
If it helps to pretend that Huckabee with his almost 4 million total viewers every weekend for his show, and number five on the NYT bestseller list book isn’t connecting with the public…be my guest.
Twill be your surprise down the road..
Your naievete is our boon.
Rensen on November 29, 2008 at 8:00 PM
I’m not a liberal but I guess repeating these lies makes you feel better in your delusional mind that anyone who doesn’t like Palin is a liberal. I’m a fiscal conservative/libertarian who keeps embarrassing all the Palin fanboys with the facts they are in denial of, such as Palin’s joke Resume…
Sarah Palin
Age: 44
Religion:
- Pentecostal
Education:
- Attended, Hawaii Pacific University, 1982
- Attended, North Idaho College, 1983-1984
- Attended, University of Idaho, 1984-1985
- Attended, Matanuska-Susitna College, 1985
- B.S. Journalism, University of Idaho, 1987
Political Experience:
- Former Council Member, Wasilla City Council, Alaska, 1992-1996
- Former Mayor, Wasilla City, Alaska, 1996-2002 (pop: 7,028) (Votes: 909)
- Failed Candidate, Lieutenant Governor, Alaska, 2002
- Resigned, Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, 2003-2004
- Governor, Alaska, 2006-present (1+1/2 years) (pop: 670,053)
Professional Experience:
- First Place, Miss Wasilla Beauty Contest, 1984
- Second Place, Miss Alaska Pageant, 1984
- Television Sports Reporter, 1987-1989
- Director, Ted Stevens Excellence in Public Service, Inc., 2003-2007
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 8:04 PM
I’ve been saying the same thing i have from day 1. Go look back at the Hot Air thread from the day she was nominated and I am a man BTW. No one is jealous of her, please. I think she is a nice person too, just absolutely unqualified to be POTUS and no where near the #1 choice when you have more qualified people like Romney, Rudy, Fred ect…
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 8:11 PM
Umm, excuse me coldwarrior, but it’s not just conservatives who support Sarah Palin. She’s got the support of libertarians, as well. As a matter of fact, we libertarian Republicans were Palin supporters long before you all Johnny-Come-Lately Conservatives came on board.
ericdondero on November 29, 2008 at 9:02 AM
Really? Since when did capping carbon dioxide (CO2) and punishing the “greedy” wallstreet execs become a Libertarian position? LMAO!
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 8:14 PM
You’re a liberal to us and that’s pretty much all that matters at this point.
nitzsche on November 29, 2008 at 8:15 PM
No Arnold has a Bachelors in Business and International Economics, yet for all that California is still in debt so either he didn’t pay attention in class or is an idiot.
I’m not a country club republican, though being brainwashed with the class warfare BS is getting old. I don’t care what school someone went to but rather their relevant education. Unfortunately the little guy is too stupid to understand what qualifications actually means and instead create this mythical elite vs the average guy propaganda. I want the smartest guy:
Romney: Smartest guy in the room (The Chicago Tribune)
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 8:23 PM
Again let me repeat my analogy about Matt Cassell, the current QB of the NE Patriots. Cassell may not take the Patriots to the playoffs but most sports pundits agree that he has performed well enough in 2008 that after he reaches unrestricted free agency in 2009 that his services as a starting QB will be considered by teams on the lookout for a first-string QB. He may not be chosen by any team, but the key is-he will be ‘in the mix’ and ‘under consideration’ because of his ability to perform. As to Sarah Palin if any you political types really believe that she will not be in the mix for the 2012 Presidential election (if she chooses)you have to pursue a different line of work or hobby. Recent polls by Rasmussen and Zogby prove that Sarah is a ‘player’. Anybody who denies this fact loses all credibility in my eyes. Is she the best choice for 2012? I think so, but time will tell. But again SHE IS IN THE MIX, and that is undeniable.
technopeasant on November 29, 2008 at 8:23 PM
All that matters is you are clueless and keep repeating lies about me. I’m a liberal to you because I understand economics and how money works? I’m a liberal to you because I don’t vote with my “feelings”? I’m a liberal to you because I don’t accept the chosen one by the religious right? I’m a liberal to you because I am not a brainwashed Palin fanboy? LMAO!
You are right, I am not a Social Conservative but I am a Fiscal Conservative/Libertarian. So try to stop lying and try calling me exactly what I am which is not a socialist/communist liberal.
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 8:28 PM
Politics is not Football! My god what is wrong with you people? Oh please I cannot wait until Romney debates Palin, LMAO!!!
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 8:31 PM
Isnt it interesting how we all made fun of the Obamaniacs for their silly “chosen one” bahavior, but when the same criticisms are leveled at Palinmania, we are suddenly impure for daring to question the “one”
Squid Shark on November 29, 2008 at 8:33 PM
There’s a difference, though. Sarah Palin’s admirers like the ideas and beliefs she enunciates. Obama supporters just like the fact that he’s Obama, and a Democrat. Not sticking to his views on Iraq? No problem. Not going to honor his tax proposals? No big deal. Just win, baby.
ddrintn on November 29, 2008 at 8:39 PM
In that case, just stick with Ron Paul or Bob Barr and leave us alone.
ddrintn on November 29, 2008 at 8:44 PM
Actually, with Palin many of the critics are the ones who seem unhinged, not the supporters. To call her simple or stupid requires a willful ignorance of facts. How does a stupid person claw themselves up from nothing to become governor of a state?
She’s not perfect, but she’s the best example we have of a libertarian-minded politician on the national stage.
Jim62sch on November 29, 2008 at 8:45 PM
Since when does a libertarian feel that self employment is not worthy of professional experience on a resume?
Saltysam on November 29, 2008 at 9:02 PM
In politics, like sports, if you discard a rising star to the ash heap of history you will live to regret it and wallow in a sea of mediocrity for an extended time. Take the case of Babe Ruth. The Boston Red Sox had won the World Series in 1918, but the owner decided to sell the Babe to the NY Yankees in 1920 for $100,000 to finance a new Broadway play. The Boston Red Sox did not win the World Series next until 2004 a span of 86 years. I’m not saying that the GOP will go 80+ years before winning the Presidency again if they sabotage or dump Sarah but I will venture to say that the GOP could lose the next 3 Presidential elections if they resort to fielding mediocre candidates or those with moderate ideals.
technopeasant on November 29, 2008 at 9:08 PM
Exactly and they are completely clueless why there was so much criticism of her. You can find plenty of people who are Pro-Life and lifetime NRA members, it does not make them qualified to be POTUS. Even after they lost, they refuse to accept why and no it is not all McCain. I tested selling Palin to women including my grandmother – I knew it was over immediately. She could not understand how Palin could have such an irresponsible daughter and blamed it on how she was raised. This is not an isolated incident. And all the Palin Fanboys just want to stick their fingers in their ears and pretend it is not a problem.
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 9:08 PM
Poptart
I don’t even read your posts. Stop posting. No one is interested in your opinion. And no, I won’t feed the trolls. I find your posts vacuous and empty. I will not feed you again and hope my fellow posters will not do so as well.
Neocon Peg on November 29, 2008 at 9:10 PM
How is such a genius not able to answer the question of what newspaper you read? Come on, please stop defending the indefensible.
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 9:10 PM
I dont think that she is either of those things. It does not mean she should be POTUS.
Squid Shark on November 29, 2008 at 9:13 PM
Self-employment? Please. Since when did qualifications not matter to become POTUS? Or is the GOP just lowering their standards to the DNC?
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 9:13 PM
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 9:10 PM
What newspaper do you read?
Saltysam on November 29, 2008 at 9:14 PM
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 9:13 PM
That’s what I thought.
You’re in politics, aren’t you?
And you’ve never, ever, run your own business. Is that correct?
Saltysam on November 29, 2008 at 9:16 PM
The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Times and The New York Post and I used to read The New York Sun until it went out of business.
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 9:17 PM
What? No I am not in politics and yes I currently run my own business and have run multiple ones in the past.
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 9:18 PM
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 9:17 PM
Wow!
Saltysam on November 29, 2008 at 9:18 PM
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 9:18 PM
What business are you in?
Saltysam on November 29, 2008 at 9:19 PM
I have a subscription to the journal and read the rest online.
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 9:19 PM
anyone wonder why The Washington Times doesn’t get that much play on broadcast and cable tv?
An Era of Hate on November 29, 2008 at 9:20 PM
Information Technology
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 9:20 PM
Oh, please. Palin has discussed the newspaper thing ad nauseum. She was being dismissive of Couric, who was coming across as snarky and condescending. Do you really believe that she doesn’t read any newspapers, or that she couldn’t remember any? Even Couric doesn’t think that…she said on Letterman that she believes Palin didn’t want to admit to reading the New York Times, which had been publishing hit pieces on the McCain and Palin families.
Jim62sch on November 29, 2008 at 9:20 PM
Poptech: look that is the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard given to prove somebody was stupid. A ten year old kid could tell his teacher what newspapers he or she reads each day. Sarah is the governor of a state. She is certainly smarter than a ten year old child, including her own children. If you really think she could not tell anybody which newspapers she reads then you, my friend, are the idiot. There is a major difference between reticence and ignorance. Pundits have supplied the answer why she didn’t answer the question. This was a gotcha question. If she had answered NY Times then they would have asked her more questions about the content of the NY Times and what she thought about its editorial policy, in other words opening up a can of worms. Also they could have asked her about McCain and how he was treated by the NY Times.
technopeasant on November 29, 2008 at 9:21 PM
Well you seemed to think that Reagan’s economics education was important,so I just wanted to point out that Arnuld also has a similar background.
A few more observations:
A. CA’s budget problems have to do to the continued spending binge the state is on, not the education of the governor. It is more a political problem than a pure economics. I think that with his flip-flop ability/search for political expediency Mittens would likely find himself in a similar situation as governor of CA.
B. I hate to burst your bubble, but where people go to college is based on class, not intelligence. Elites with good connections like Romney get to go to eastern Ivy-covered campuses while blue-collar children from small towns like Palin go to the regional state universities. As an added bonus, the blue collar kids don’t have the money to pay for tuition and living expenses and probably need to get jobs, so it takes them longer to complete school
Illinidiva on November 29, 2008 at 9:21 PM
It’s one thing to say you don’t agree with Palin; it’s another to “look for hairs in the soap”. Her daughter got pregnant before marriage, therefore she’s unqualified. What a load of sh*t. One excuse is as good as another; if her daughter were a virgin, Palin would be condemned for stunting her daughter’s sexual development with her own Puritan attitude.
Can you fill me in on the sex lives of the children of any other candidates — those who have children past the age of puberty, that is? Or is it only something to be examined when you need ammo against Sarah Palin?
ddrintn on November 29, 2008 at 9:22 PM
Information Technology
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 9:20 PM
So, you run a blog?
Saltysam on November 29, 2008 at 9:22 PM
Yep, because teens don’t make poor decisions on their own… You were apparently never seventeen and don’t have any teenage children.
Illinidiva on November 29, 2008 at 9:25 PM
No Palin proved herself to be clueless by not answering that question. What makes her even more clueless is if she reads the New York Times. With the Internet you can read any of the papers I do and someone in politics who is supposedly so smart should be able to answer that question easily. If you are not even smart enough to know where to get non-liberal biased news then you have no business being POTUS. I sure as hell do not want a POTUS who reads the irrelevant New York Times.
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 9:28 PM
Does anyone know if Jindal’s parents were US citizens at the time of his birth? My understanding of the “natural-born clause” in Article 2, Section 1 of the Constitution means that both parents must be US citizens at the time of the baby’s birth to be qualified for POTUS.
This is what disqualifies Obama. It doesn’t matter if Obama was born in Honalulu, the fact that his father was not a US citizen (a fact that Obama admits on his “fight the smears” website) at the time of Obama’s birth means that he is not a “natural-born” citizen (this is also Donofrio’s case that the SCOTUS is going to review on 12/5).
I don’t want to get my hopes up for a candidate who may not even qualify. The MSM will actually care if it’s a Repub, though they don’t give a fig about Obama.
-Aslan’s Girl
Aslans Girl on November 29, 2008 at 9:28 PM
In my free time. I am employed as an analyst and run a consulting business.
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 9:30 PM
It’s funny, I really don’t care for any of the current front-runners. I probably like Jindal the best, but don’t know if he qualifies as noted in my earlier post. I don’t care if I ever hear from Palin again. While Mitt was my second choice after Fred, I don’t really care for him. I wish Fred would run again, or a younger Fred clone would emerge on the scene. I don’t see any right now… Hopefully four years from now someone will. We all know what can happen in four years… Allen, anyone?
I’m hoping that a Sen. or Rep. will prove himself as a forceful leader of the oppo and we can all rally behind him.
-Aslan’s Girl
Aslans Girl on November 29, 2008 at 9:33 PM
Poptech, you’re just being silly now. I might make fun of Jug-Eared Messiah for his 57 states comment, but I would never make the the mistake of thinking he’s stupid because of a misstep.
If she’s stupid, how do you explain her electoral successes and high popularity in Alaska?
Even the Democratic former editor of Ms. magazine says she’s a “brainiac”.
Jim62sch on November 29, 2008 at 9:34 PM
What you have just described is a stingy liberal.
nitzsche on November 29, 2008 at 9:36 PM
In my free time. I am employed as an analyst and run a consulting business.
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 9:30 PM
So, you’re an employee for what type of company?
You run a consultant business. Is it your own? On what do you consult?
Saltysam on November 29, 2008 at 9:37 PM
Maybe but his liberal policies and poor fiscal displine have proven him incompetent. He started off good but when the voters rejected his proposals he became a liberal politician.
Romney vetoed spending bills like crazy but the dem legislature would overturn them. Arnold just seems to go along with whatever the polls tell him now.
Total nonsense, if Palin had the grades she could get a scholarship to any major university, the fact is she didn’t. Sure family connections help but they do not make you smart. They may help you get into a school but they do not help you graduate. Anyone competent can get a solid education regardless of your background. Palin floated around to 5 schools to get a Journalism degree? Please, no one is criticizing her start in life but rather what she achieved or rather has not, despite the hype.
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 9:38 PM
-Aslan’s Girl
Aslans Girl on November 29, 2008 at 9:33 PM
The Senate, and the House, are the two worst places to look for a President, IMHO.
Saltysam on November 29, 2008 at 9:38 PM
Asian girl: things happen in cycles. At certain moments in history cataclysmic political events occur that thrust newcomers on to the scene. This is NOT the norm. What probably will happen in the next election cycle is that we will return to ‘known quantities’. Obama vs Palin, Obama vs Romney, Obama vs Jindal Obama vs Huckabee.
technopeasant on November 29, 2008 at 9:42 PM
I disagree, Obama went to Harvard as a legacy. Biden was a blue-collar kid who eneded up going to a regional school. McCain was an elite in Navy circles and thus got hooked up.
I am a blue collar kid and I went to a good but regional school (U of Florida) even though I had the grades to elsewhere.
Squid Shark on November 29, 2008 at 9:43 PM
Obama is so smart yet he thinks Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is pollution? Please.
Obama to Declare Carbon Dioxide Dangerous Pollutant (Bloomberg)
Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is Not Pollution
I don’t think Palin is an idiot, just unqualified to be POTUS and not the best person for the job. Politicians get elected all the time, that does not make them smart.
She was elected Mayor of Wasilla City, Alaska, 1996 by 651 votes and in 1999 by 909 votes.
She was elected Governor of Alaska by 114,697 votes.
Do you know how many Mayors have been elected by more votes then this?
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 9:47 PM
I only mention the Senate and House because I’m not that impressed with the current Rep. governors. Maybe the Gov of Indiana… I’m just remembering the glory years of the ‘94 Congress when we actually stood up to a Dem. POTUS. Our backbone was strong in the Congress.
-Aslan’s Girl
(as in the Chronicles of Narnia)
Aslans Girl on November 29, 2008 at 9:48 PM
Poptech, why so evasive? Is it too personal to ask what it is that you do?
Saltysam on November 29, 2008 at 9:50 PM
Poptech, I don’t know how old you are, but a college education was not as easily obtained in the 1980s as it is now. I am close to Palin’s age and come from a similar background…if your family was of modest means it could be rough.
I’m not really getting why people keep harping on the fact that she attended several schools on the way to her degree. She had financial roadblocks thrown in her path to a college degree, and she adapted and overcame. For a period of time she even had to move back home to save money, and attended a community college near where she lived. She worked and sought out scholarships until she finally achieved her goal.
And, Poptech, you simply refuse to answer how she has been so successful in her political career, and why she is so popular with her constituents.
Jim62sch on November 29, 2008 at 9:50 PM
Did you get a scholarship? See what many people don’t realize is you can go to local and state schools to get your bachelors and then get into a better named school for say their masters. That helps keep costs down while helping their resume. But this is not the issue as I don’t care what college it is as opposed to what relevant education they received. Romney for instance has a law (JD) AND an economics (MBA) degree – it doesn’t get any better than that.
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 9:51 PM
I told you what I do without giving up my privacy, unlike other idiots online who don’t care about theirs. And that is it.
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 9:53 PM
What are you talking about, both my parents got degrees, my father by working two jobs and my mother through the G.I. Bill.
Because it looks like what it is, she either didn’t plan well or was not good with money. Neither one looks good. If she simply attended a community college and then worked her way up to an accredited four year school that would be fine but that is not what happened, she jumped around from college to college as if she had no idea what she was doing. Then graduates with an irrelevant journalism degree for a political career she later sought out?
Is this American Idol? Because that is effectively why she is popular. She is attractive with a nice personality. She would be no where without either.
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 9:58 PM
Poptech: So you don’t think SP is an idiot but not qualified and not the best person for the job. Well that’s progress. To whether SP is not qualified to be President-all I know is that SP will be better qualified in 4 years to be President and to whether she is not the best person for the job I’ll leave that up to the voters to decide.
technopeasant on November 29, 2008 at 10:02 PM
To call that a dumb statement would be an insult to the concept of “dumb”. So anyone moderately attractive with a pleasant personality could accomplish what she has accomplished, starting with nothing? OK.
From the Lafferty article I linked earlier:
Jim62sch on November 29, 2008 at 10:06 PM
Not really, it is difficult enough to get into a top university; it is nearly impossible to get a full scholarship. I don’t know anyone who got a full scholarship to a university. And state universities definitely don’t give many full rides because you’re already getting reduced tuition. Moreover, there were even fewer scholarship and financing opportunities in the 80s than there are now. For instance, Palin probably would have been offered a basketball scholarship for a smaller regional college today, but didn’t get one because there weren’t as many sports scholarships for women back then.
I also must say that I am quite amused by your harping about what Palin has achieved. Frankly, for someone who went to five colleges, she has achieved quite alot with her life. My dad has a Northwestern MBA, and Palin was making more money than he was in his forties, so I don’t think that success is totally defined by where you went to college.
Illinidiva on November 29, 2008 at 10:19 PM
Hate to tell you this.. but when getting graduate degrees, elite universities do matter. Harvard MBA program doesn’t routinely let in people from nowhere university to its program. It’s generally other Ivy students. Moreover, just because someone has a JD/ MBA joint degree doesn’t make them extra special. Lots of the Wall Street guys who managed to tank the economy had Harvard MBAs, and I would consider them to be greedy morons.
Illinidiva on November 29, 2008 at 10:23 PM
I happen to believe that some of our best presidents have had educations from small schools or no school.
I seem to remember an actor who attended Eureka College who made a pretty good POTUS.
I also seem to remember that another tall skinny guy from Illinois who only had about 18 months of formal education (none of it higher education).
And of course the guy who gave us the concept of manifest destiny who had no formal education at all.
You see just because you didn’t spend several years listening to egghead professors doesn’t mean you are unqualified to be president. In fact to some of us it is a prerequisite.
conservnut on November 29, 2008 at 10:23 PM
you to give up your privacy.
I just asked what type of business are you employed as an analyst?
And whether you owned the consultant business, and on what do you consult?
Simply saying “information technology” is like saying “I read them all”, which seems to be am evasive style you feel is representative of dim wit.
I’m tempted to ask “How is such a genius not able to answer the question
what newspaper you readon what do you analyze, or on what do you consult?Saltysam on November 29, 2008 at 10:25 PM
Why is the Lafferty article never quoted by anybody in the MSM? In addition this was written on October 27. Why was this article not given more publicity by the McCain campaign, especially when Elaine Lafferty declares that she is a Democrat, who is a consultant to the McCain campaign. As Rush Limbaugh would say: “It doesn’t fit the template.” EL is seen by the loony lefty feminists as a traitor. How dare she even hint that SP has a brain, is curious, has a photographic memory,is aware of linkages and logic and processes information by questioning and ‘only then’ acting. To those who do not believe that everyone has a bad day: How many flawless interviews does SP have to give in the next 4 years to prove to you that she is not a buffoon and therefore smart enough to be President in order for you to forget the Couric interview-100, 1000, 1m, 100m, never?
technopeasant on November 29, 2008 at 10:26 PM
ddrintn on November 29, 2008 at 10:32 PM
Paglia article here. ‘Nuff said, really. The sad thing is, she defends Palin more eloquently than most cannibalistic “Republicans”.
ddrintn on November 29, 2008 at 10:35 PM
Of course it is difficult to get into top universities but if you have the grades they will offer you scholarships. But doing some homework you can get into a big name college for less, since not all schools have the same tuition. I know multiple people from HS who got full rides, they were in my honors classes and AP classes. My brother got a full ride to a state school. It is all about your grades.
Having the degree does not make you financially successful but it does help.
Nonsense my friend got his MBA from Notre Dame after attending a state school. Having a law and business degree, being a successful CEO of private companies and being governor for 4 years does make you extra special.
See this is what I am talking about, economically illiterate. Anyone who blames greed doesn’t understand economics and is the typical Huckabee/Palin supporter – absolutely clueless. They don’t even understand that the Federal Reserve is what caused the current financial problem.
Greed is not the problem BTW
Greed (1/3) (Video) (12min) (John Stossel, ABC News)
Greed (2/3) (Video) (13min) (John Stossel, ABC News)
Greed (3/3) (Video) (14min) (John Stossel, ABC News)
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 10:38 PM
Willing to bet that most of them were the spoiled children of the elite. I wonder how many of those H-MBAs were acquired by the children of a middle class family going to State U who worked their ass off to get into grad school at Harvard, and ended up making the decisions at Financial Inc….
Yeah, riiiiiight.
Saltysam on November 29, 2008 at 10:48 PM
Camille Paglia has written a lot of great stuff about Palin, even though she totally disagrees with Palin’s politics. Paglia particularly loves the way that Palin uses language – I think she compared Palin to a “be-bop saxophonist” in that regard.
Jim62sch on November 29, 2008 at 10:48 PM
Poptech: McCain would not allow Sarah to go off script. She was forced to echo his talking point on Wall Street greed. If she had gone truly rogue by saying that Bill Clinton and the Democrats in Congress (Barney Frank, Chris Dodds)caused the sub-prime mortgage mess then you probably would have criticized her for being a screwball and not being a team player.
technopeasant on November 29, 2008 at 10:49 PM
Totally agree with that, but I think the term “moron” was the prominent quality of the statement.
Saltysam on November 29, 2008 at 10:52 PM
Which is ironic, considering some of the doofuses here can’t really find much wrong with her politically; she’s just “stupid”. Paglia sums up the idiotic “stupid” smear pretty well:
“As a career classroom teacher, I can see how smart she is — and quite frankly, I think the people who don’t see it are the stupid ones, wrapped in the fuzzy mummy-gauze of their own worn-out partisan dogma.” That means you, Shelby, Noneya, benny shakar, Poptech.
ddrintn on November 29, 2008 at 10:59 PM
Really, I got some scholarships $1K off here or there, but didn’t get a full ride. I didn’t know anyone who did, and I went to a well thought of private public school on Chicago’s North Shore. There were quite a few partial scholarships, but no full rides. And if it was difficult for students who graduated from an upper middle class prep school to get full scholarships, then it would have been even harder for someone from a small working class community in Alaska in the 1980s to get a scholarship.
Shockingly, whatever Palin did trumped my father’s oh-so-awesome MBA. Methinks perhaps she really is a special person.
Yes, I went to an elite state school as well (UIUC) and should also have no problem getting into a good MBA program. It is much different than attending University of Alaska – Fairbanks campus or even University of Florida. Quite hard to get into Harvard’s MBA program from one of those schools.
Moreover, I think that coming from nothing and becoming the governor of AK and the R’s VP nominee is more impressive than a guy who had Daddy and Daddy’s contacts to give him a head start with his success.
Illinidiva on November 29, 2008 at 11:05 PM
I graduated Summa with an accounting degree so I wouldn’t consider myself economic illiterate. But I do think that the Wall Street guys let their greed make them stupid. Anyone could have told them that lending money to people who couldn’t pay for their mortgages and then creating securities out of it was a bad long-term financial strategy. Their fancy Ivy League schools apparently failed to provide them with such common sense.
Illinidiva on November 29, 2008 at 11:09 PM
Absolutely zero… It is nearly impossible to get into Harvard’s MBA program without the right connections.
Illinidiva on November 29, 2008 at 11:11 PM
Whatever happened to the optimistic feelings of parents that my child could grow up to be President one day? The political, economic and educational elites have decided that the greater majority of children have no business becoming President. You can trace elitism all the way back to Plato; in America to Walter Lippmann.
technopeasant on November 29, 2008 at 11:13 PM
Yeah, but to paraphrase P. J. O’Rourke, accusing Wall Street types of greed is like accusing an NFL linebacker of being big and aggressive. The problem isn’t really “greed”, it’s the incestuous relationship between Wall Street and Capitol hill.
ddrintn on November 29, 2008 at 11:13 PM
Hooked ‘em up with some pretty good attorneys, though.
Saltysam on November 29, 2008 at 11:16 PM
Media consolidation
Saltysam on November 29, 2008 at 11:20 PM
its called crony capitalism and it has to stop
joey24007 on November 29, 2008 at 11:25 PM
Boy ain’t that the truth! I happen to be of the opinion that elitism is the big problem right now on both the supposed right and the left in this country. I have been in a position for the past decade or so to hire a whole lot of college educated folks. Overwhelmingly the best employees I have hired have been the folks that worked their way through a public school. I have hired a number of Ivey league types and can’t think of a one that has made a good hand. In fact I have ended up firing the bulk of them. They all have seemed to have the same problem, they feel a sense of entitlement because of who they are and where they went to school and usually try to get everyone else to do their work for them. It takes more than someone who can talk a big game to cut it with me! You have to be able to deliver the goods!
conservnut on November 29, 2008 at 11:26 PM
Screw 2012. Right now, 2012 may as well be 2112, except there isn’t a cool album by Rush named after it.
Right now, we need to set a stage for 2010 and beyond, and we do that by focusing on 2009. How can we keep the Democrats from getting away with lowering expectations? How can we jog their elbows as they try to thread the needle? How can we rain on their parade, without becoming targets of blame in return?
Given everything the Democrats promised to everybody, inevitably, someone is going to be left out in the cold. Hell, gays are already left out in the cold. How can the GOP exploit this? If we can’t get them voting our way, can we get them going third-party kamikaze or staying home?
How can we articulate conservatism in a way that appeals to average people who went through 13 plus years of William Ayers’s idea of “education?”
Speculating about 4 years from now is IMHO pointless. 2012 will come when it comes, and the right candidate will be clear at that time.
Sekhmet on November 29, 2008 at 11:29 PM
Its menage trois with the unions. The media is Larry Flynt.
Saltysam on November 29, 2008 at 11:30 PM
If a man who has ties to 2 unrepentant domestic terrorists, to a man who is fervently anti-Israel, ties to a man now doing prison time, is tied to an organization that engages in voter fraud, was a member of a church whose pastor who preached ‘God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human’ and is rumored to be a Muslim and a not a natural born citizen can be elected President then a woman who is not involved with any of these types can be elected President, regardless of how intelligent she is perceived to be.
technopeasant on November 29, 2008 at 11:33 PM
Wow, lively arguments indeed.
Admittedly, I’m a Palin fan. I’ve been following her career ever since she became Governor of Alaska. Just like our Governor, who’s actually an unabashedly RINO, Palin is completely opposite in contrast.
I like Romney also, but Mitt suffers from a cult of personality like that of Huckabee. Their resume’s are impressive, but they lack the charisma that Palin brought to the election. Granted that charisma doesn’t win elections (I cannot explain Obama, don’t ask), but it helps immensely.
The connection I get with Palin is the same I got with Reagan. She speaks with truth in her convictions and just plain speaking. The evidence that Palin is more of a folksy candidate is appealing to me as it relates to my own values and views.
Regarding her not answering questions. Did anyone else think the questions at the debates were not even remotely related to everyday issues and the future of this country? She was offering solutions and policies with goal setting objectives to today’s issues. The MSM interviews so heavily bias as ambush politics. Did anyone ever listen to what she was bringing to the table?
Tangible and measurable results is what Palin brings.
How does one measure hope and change?
Whatever your choice for a conservative 2010/12 candidate, we’d better think about how the message will be delivered and how the image will be perceived. To our own peril.
Kini on November 29, 2008 at 11:37 PM
Kini: >how the message will be delivered and how the image will be perceived. To our own peril.< However the most important factor is the MESSENGER and the MESSENGER’S ability to attract a massive amount of voters to his or her cause. That’s the bottom line.
technopeasant on November 29, 2008 at 11:45 PM
With the right grades and SATs you can get quite a bit. Where you went to HS has nothing to do with qualifying for scholarships. She obviously did not have the grades to get a scholarship and thus should have shopped for a school she could afford, or attended a local community college – saving on Room and Board and then moving to a 4 year school.
Did what? Became a politician? She has not been successful in the private sector. I would still hire your dad before Palin to run my business or the country.
Maybe Harvard is hard but it is not impossible to get into a big name school if you have the grades, shop around and know how to sell yourself.
First of all if she was not an attractive woman she would have never been the VP Pick and if McCain was not playing identity politics to try and sucker in Hillary supporters we would not even be talking about Palin. But you are so hung up on class warfare it blinds you to the truth. Romney may of had a well known father but his father did not run his businesses for him, he did.
These guys were smart, they conned plenty of idiots but the only way they could get away with it was being able to get their securities rated AAA, that is where the fraud charges should go. Even still it is all suckers complaining that they got conned. Oh well investments and the stock market are a risk and if you don’t want to accept that risk, don’t play. So your greed comment is economically ignorant.
You repeat “Ivy league” like you are a jealous man. I am not jealous of anyone’s position in life nor of their education.
Poptech on November 29, 2008 at 11:45 PM
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