The Black Friday mindless stampede; Update: Video added
posted at 12:30 pm on November 28, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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I worked for several years in retail and then for two decades in retail-related security, and have no intention of participating in the longest, roughest day in American shopping. In all of those years, I never heard a story like this, though, which indicates that people have lost their minds and their humanity for the sake of discounts (via Michelle):
A worker died after being trampled and a woman miscarried when hundreds of shoppers smashed through the doors of a Long Island Wal-Mart Friday morning, witnesses said.
The unidentified worker, employed as an overnight stock clerk, tried to hold back the unruly crowds just after the Valley Stream store opened at 5 a.m.
Witnesses said the surging throngs of shoppers knocked the man down. He fell and was stepped on. As he gasped for air, shoppers ran over and around him.
“He was bum-rushed by 200 people,” said Jimmy Overby, 43, a co-worker. “They took the doors off the hinges. He was trampled and killed in front of me. They took me down too…I literally had to fight people off my back.”
I’ve seen people get into shoving matches and fistfights, and I’ve heard of injuries, but a death and a miscarriage? This didn’t happen because of a fire erupting or a terrorist/hostage situation, as we have seen in Mumbai. Hundreds of people trampled others to death so that they could get to cheap retail goods the fastest — presumably to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ.
At some point, that horrible irony should cause people to pause and think about what motivates them in this holiday season. Everyone likes a good deal, but few of us would choose to die for one — and therefore we shouldn’t want to kill for one, either. Retailers won’t like to hear this, but maybe we need to spend a little less and recover our humanity just a little more.
Update (AP): Breitbart has video of the aftermath.
Update II (Ed): Thankfully, the miscarriage appears to have been inaccurate, although the pregnant woman did get injured. The Anchoress has more thoughts.
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I don’t think I’d call this a “frivolous” lawsuit (if it happens). Sounds to me like the dead guy’s family has more-than-ample grounds for a wrongful death suit. Walmart deliberately created the conditions that led to their employee’s death, and it was certainly foreseeable that those conditions could lead to a serious injury or death. There are plenty of other ways Walmart can get shoppers into the store that don’t involve encouraging aggressive mobs to gather outside the doors at 5 a.m., rushing in to get the few deeply-discounted advertised items that are only available for a minute or two, as the first shoppers to get to them grab them up.
In any event, condolences to the deceased man’s family. This should not have happened.
AZCoyote on November 28, 2008 at 2:41 PM
If our holidays become any more commercialized and shallow, I think I’d have to travel abroad for the second half of December.
bayam on November 28, 2008 at 2:50 PM
This is horrible. Just being in a Wal Mart is bad enough. Working in one is worse still. But being killed in stampede while working at Wal Mart, I can’t imagine anything more horrifying.
Ars Moriendi on November 28, 2008 at 2:51 PM
For clarification, are you suggesting that the problem with black America is because there is something inherently wrong with blacks? If yes, that is pure racist prejudism. The problem isn’t with black people specifically but with the heart of mankind in general. History is filled with plenty of examples where different races including whites seeking to fill their own selfish sinful desires ignore the safety and needs of others while either doing nothing or participate in the event itself. The classic Psychology textbook example of the woman who is beaten to death while a whole neighborhood watches and does nothing comes to mind.
shick on November 28, 2008 at 2:51 PM
So much for an economic crisis
Kini on November 28, 2008 at 2:56 PM
Feel free to prove me wrong by showing me a similar scene from white america…triple dog dare ya
johngalt on November 28, 2008 at 1:00 PM
For clarification, are you suggesting that the problem with black America is because there is something inherently wrong with blacks? If yes, that is pure racist prejudism. The problem isn’t with black people specifically but with the heart of mankind in general. History is filled with plenty of examples where different races including whites seeking to fill their own selfish sinful desires ignore the safety and needs of others while either doing nothing or participate in the event itself. The classic Psychology textbook example of the woman who is beaten to death while a whole neighborhood watches and does nothing comes to mind.
shick on November 28, 2008 at 2:51 PM
No, I am not blaming Heredity, I’m blaming Environment here…we’ve allowed a socio-economic condition to fester for generations out of some inane political correctness, and black society in these areas has become lawless and violent as a general rule….similarly, there
s nothing inherently wrong with being a muslim, it’s these muslim societies that we’ve allowed to become hotbeds of angry violence. The don’t look, don’t mention the real problem approach has not helped. If, after Katrina, ANYONE had, rather than blaming bush, or Fema, or whomever, had initiated a real discussion on why, exactly, blacks in the big easy responded to a natural disaster by compounding it with depraved behavior, we’d be that much further along in the search for the solution….look at the many posts here and the idiots on MSNBC blaming WAL Mart for the tragedy instead of the animals that stampeded a poor man to death with their callous disregard for life….
the end of personal responsibility in this culture will be the death of the west.
johngalt on November 28, 2008 at 2:57 PM
How is that relevant ? I’m talking about the tendency of blacks to riot and stampede and to treat human life as something worthless…its the same mindset that muslims have all over the world….a sense of entitlement, and a willingness to get theirs or get even , regardles of the cost to others.
you can call me names all day, but it doesn’t change the basic facts.
Would you LIKE me to call you an idiot? Since I never called you a name to begin with. Look back at my post and get off YOUR high horse(s) because you are showing your true colors.
johngalt on November 28, 2008 at 2:29 PM
upinak on November 28, 2008 at 2:34 PM
fair point, apologies.
johngalt on November 28, 2008 at 2:59 PM
I hope the ignorant people who sacrificed this worker for a few bucks get what is coming to them. I hope they feel the guilt and shame of their acts. I hope they also feel the long arm of the law tapping on their shoulders. These idiots practically broke down a door. They can be charged with breaking and entering and be charged with voluntary manslaughter.
This, of course, will never happen. The ignorant crowd that killed this man will be made to be victims because the big bad box store, evil empire, Walmart didn’t provide enough security to save them from themselves.
Personal responsibility left this community a long time ago, if it ever existed, and they will be the victims.
The true victim is the man that was trampled to death for the Almighty Dollar and the baby that will never be born because of these animals.
HornetSting on November 28, 2008 at 3:05 PM
How about blaming those truly responsible- the greedy shoppers who couldn’t wait to get the Wii for $298-blaming Wal-Mart is like blaming Bush for the terrorist attacks-
Those “Shoppers” should be identified and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law
May God forgive us for making the celebration of His perfect gift to us into this shameful display each year.
Phil214 on November 28, 2008 at 3:09 PM
More learned persons (not to mention better communicators) have addressed the problems of Americans who happen to be black over and over again in more appropriate settings. The short answer: the advent of Leftism.
What do crowd mentalities have to do with that? Nothing.
baldilocks on November 28, 2008 at 3:10 PM
Why not just argue your point instead of shouting mine down, fascist ? Sorry to point out the elephant in the room, but if you’re not going to face the facts about black America in 2008 then you’re not going to fix the problems…we all excused the behavior of the animals in new orleans after Katrina and what have we wrought ? a murder rate 10 times that of baghdads ? The view from your high horse might appear lovely, but get a little closer to the muck at your feet and you’ll see things a bit clearer.
johngalt on November 28, 2008 at 2:06 PM
More learned persons (not to mention better communicators) have addressed the problems of Americans who happen to be black over and over again in more appropriate settings. The short answer: the advent of Leftism.
What do crowd mentalities have to do with that? Nothing.
baldilocks on November 28, 2008 at 3:10 PM
I believe you’re wrong, its the exact opposite that leftism expouses, the “poor poor animals who stomped an innocent man to death ” routine that is the cornerstone of the left, the blame society mentality .. it’s why every government on earth is afraid to take on the somali pirartes, for fdear of being accused of mistreating them…will ONE talking head newsperson ANYWHERE simply ask ” what the hell is wrong with these people ?” noooo..they’ll talk abotu Wal Marts lack of security, or something equally inane.
johngalt on November 28, 2008 at 3:14 PM
Mindless commercialism is not something I choose to take part in. I think my, my siblings, mom, etc have enough “stuff”, and I do not need them buying up more stuff I do not even need.
I think this Christmas, I may come up with some calendars from my photography, and also make some donations to worthwhile charities like Humane Society, animal rescue groups, and Race for the Cure, and give them a card about the donation in their name.
firepilot on November 28, 2008 at 3:21 PM
I’m not trying to be rude, but this needs to be repeated: you need to learn to communicate better in written form. You did not illustrate how any of the above mentioned makes me wrong.
baldilocks on November 28, 2008 at 3:22 PM
Good. I didn’t think you were but your comment was open enough to allow that possibility. I wanted to give you the opportunity to dispell any thoughts. The race-card bearing left would love to take your unclarified comment and run with it.
You make some good points but I don’t think Walmart is blameless. Mangement has known of this problem come every Black Friday and have only perpetuated the problem. Walmart has the responsibility to tell those waiting in line that they will be held responsible for their actions. They also have the right to turn away aggressive shoppers.
shick on November 28, 2008 at 3:34 PM
Our local WalMart handled things a little differently a few years back. They only allowed two doors open so there was more of a line coming in than a mass wall of people.
Also,, the people were festive and happy. People were singing songs and joking and having conversations before the doors opened. Even after the doors opened,, people were yelling “Merry Christmas” and laughing. It was a lot of fun,, be we are rural.
This is unfortunate,, but it is more a problem of the people than WalMart. Anyone could have stopped and helped this man. No one did.
JellyToast on November 28, 2008 at 3:35 PM
Absolutely. The blame stops at the fools that stampeded and killed this man and unborn baby.
Unfortunately, society likes to place blame on the rich. Not the stupid. These “fools” will be the victims. As usual.
HornetSting on November 28, 2008 at 3:43 PM
I agree. Full blame goes on the shoppers who stampeded like mindless animals. How heartbreaking for this man’s family. How disgusting what this says about our society and the human race in general.
califcon on November 28, 2008 at 3:48 PM
X-box scuffle
corona on November 28, 2008 at 3:49 PM
Good Lord.
upinak on November 28, 2008 at 3:51 PM
The majority of those shown on that video should passed up the X-Boxes and headed for the treadmills.
thomasaur on November 28, 2008 at 4:01 PM
Fox is reporting 2 deaths in California. Sick. Sick. Sick.
HornetSting on November 28, 2008 at 4:01 PM
Is this footage from 1978’s “Dawn of the Dead”?
Black Adam on November 28, 2008 at 4:07 PM
They just showed video from the store after they closed the door. There are a bunch of people harassing the police, probably trying to get in the store to get the xbox.
Some people should just NOT BREED.
HornetSting on November 28, 2008 at 4:10 PM
I had to drive near the mall in our area today on unrelated business. I got a look at the parking lot – packed to the curbs, with more cars turning in as we passed by. I told my passenger, “I wish I could just jump out of the car and run around in the parking lot, shouting, ‘It’s just STUFF!!’”
God almighty – it’s just stuff, people. Take some of that cash that you’re pissing away on stuff you don’t need, or on gifts that the receivers don’t need and maybe don’t even want, and give it to a worthy charity. Hell, if you feel you have to give a gift to someone, make a donation in her name to her favorite charity!
Lurking Vet on November 28, 2008 at 4:10 PM
It’s sad. It’s all about status. What kid has the lastest xbox, PSP, whatever. Even if they cannot afford it, or don’t have a job, they seem to all have cell phones and video games.
A man died for that greed. Someone, and not Walmart, needs to pay.
HornetSting on November 28, 2008 at 4:14 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27957714/
Two killed in Toys “R” Us shooting.
Mark1971 on November 28, 2008 at 4:16 PM
I believe you’re wrong, its the exact opposite that leftism expouses, the “poor poor animals who stomped an innocent man to death ” routine that is the cornerstone of the left, the blame society mentality .. it’s why every government on earth is afraid to take on the somali pirates, for fdear of being accused of mistreating them…will ONE talking head newsperson ANYWHERE simply ask ” what the hell is wrong with these people ?” noooo..they’ll talk abotu Wal Marts lack of security, or something equally inane.
johngalt on November 28, 2008 at 3:14 PM
I’m not trying to be rude, but this needs to be repeated: you need to learn to communicate better in written form. You did not illustrate how any of the above mentioned makes me wrong.
baldilocks on November 28, 2008 at 3:22 PM
Ok, I’ll try again….I believe that the leftist philosophy of today makes excuses for bad behavior, and seeks to explain it away by blaming external factors for it, rather than acknowledging that there are, in fact, bad people in this world. Its that philosophy that mocks Bush for calling terrorists “evil” as if Evil does not exist in the modern world, its that philosophy that blames Americas’s action as the ultimate root cause of the 9/11 attacks…because when you remove the most obvious: ie: Al Qaeda and their ilk are simply evil people lusting for power over others and filled with hatred for the west, then you have to manufacture more politically correct explanations for their conduct, like America’s attitude towards palestine, or other such nonsense. Similarly, when you, in leftist fashion, simply refuse to accept the fact that this mob of animals in valley stream is in fact, FULLY, 1000 percent culpable for their own horrid actions you then need to inanely blame a box store for not having a swat team on hand for a stupid sale. We excuse the disgusting behavior of the people at fault here, and seek to instead, explain it away by blaming Wal Mart for not having foreseen that people would act in such a reprehensible fashion.
The ultimate result being, we never actually move towards a solution to the basic problem: ie: the creation of third world type slums in our own backyard, where violence and anarchy will continue to reign, and in fact, get worse with each passing year.
johngalt on November 28, 2008 at 4:16 PM
Don’t ever tell the truth because it hurts some people and is politically incorrect.
HornetSting on November 28, 2008 at 4:20 PM
Long Island, New York.
Pretty much all you need to know.
wise_man on November 28, 2008 at 4:24 PM
johngalt: You give objectivists a bad name. Not hard to do, I know.
RayinVA on November 28, 2008 at 4:27 PM
F-’em
thomasaur on November 28, 2008 at 4:27 PM
Agreed.
HornetSting on November 28, 2008 at 4:35 PM
“Hundreds of people trampled others to death so that they could get to cheap retail goods the fastest — presumably to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ.” I’m not a church-going Christian or a Wal Mart shopper, but I can safely say that Christ’s teachings had NOTHING to do with this insanity.
These people better not be anywhere near me and my family when we have to line up for food–they better be civilized by then.
Christine on November 28, 2008 at 4:36 PM
The body counts goes up by 2.
corona on November 28, 2008 at 4:37 PM
It annoys me that the people in the video are complaining about the paramedics. Possibly the same people who ran him over or at the very least stood by and did nothing until the paramedics arrived, except maybe take some video.
jman on November 28, 2008 at 4:45 PM
Nice generalizations. Especially considering how the majority of people involved in these Black Friday stampedes tend to be normally mild-mannered white women.
Anyway, never mind that. Let’s accept your premise that black people are inherently prone to riotous violence. I suppose you’ve got a solution in mind. Should they be rounded up and quarantined? Re-educated? Perhaps enslaved? Executed?
While there is a tiny bit of relevancy and truth in your argument, it gets lost in the racism and generalization. Once you fail to recognize that all individuals are responsible for their own decisions and actions and that their race cannot determine the sort of person they will be, you come across sounding a bit foolish.
Sign of the Dollar on November 28, 2008 at 4:53 PM
johngalt: You give objectivists a bad name. Not hard to do, I know.
RayinVA on November 28, 2008 at 4:27 PM
objectivists, almost by definition, don’t care what anyone thinks of their “good name” certainly not the opinion of the internet
johngalt on November 28, 2008 at 4:53 PM
How is that relevant ? I’m talking about the tendency of blacks to riot and stampede and to treat human life as something worthless…its the same mindset that muslims have all over the world….a sense of entitlement, and a willingness to get theirs or get even , regardles of the cost to others.
you can call me names all day, but it doesn’t change the basic facts.
johngalt on November 28, 2008 at 2:29 PM
Nice generalizations. Especially considering how the majority of people involved in these Black Friday stampedes tend to be normally mild-mannered white women.
Anyway, never mind that. Let’s accept your premise that black people are inherently prone to riotous violence. I suppose you’ve got a solution in mind. Should they be rounded up and quarantined? Re-educated? Perhaps enslaved? Executed?
While there is a tiny bit of relevancy and truth in your argument, it gets lost in the racism and generalization. Once you fail to recognize that all individuals are responsible for their own decisions and actions and that their race cannot determine the sort of person they will be, you come across sounding a bit foolish.
Sign of the Dollar on November 28, 2008 at 4:53 PM
again, you haven’t been following the thread, I’m not saying there’s anything inherent in being “black” I do NOT believe that, at all.
I am merely pointing out that there IS, indisputably a serious problem within majority black communities, and their actions as a group, bear this out, AND, furthermore, that ignoring this basic fact, or worse, excusing and attempting to explain it away, exacerbates the problem,and prevents any sort of progress towards reducing it.
As far as your comment that ” the majority of people involved in these Black Friday stampedes tend to be normally mild-mannered white women. ” I reject utterly, and dare you to provide any factual back up at all…in other words, I’m calling “bullsh*t” on that one, unless you care to show me what exactly you mean…show me cases where “whites have rioted” , please…I can show you hundreds of cases where blacks as a group have exploded into horrific acts of depraved violence over slight provocation….this is a problem, and pretending it doesn’t exist, or calling me stupid will not change it.
johngalt on November 28, 2008 at 5:01 PM
RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tim Burton on November 28, 2008 at 5:01 PM
I’ve only participated in ONE Black Friday sale. Best Buy in TX. It was well organized and had plenty of security. We were only allowed into the store 10 at a time. Still…I was nervous as the doors opened.
That will be my only Black Friday sale.
It’s not worth the risk and my Savior’s birth is too sacred!
rightwingmom on November 28, 2008 at 5:04 PM
The nerve of WalMart!! A business having a sale!! Run em out of town!!!
Some people here need to give their heads a shake so long they would likely fall off.
The customers are the only ones with any blame in this bullcrap. WalMart put no guns to any heads. Those that would see WalMart sued need to book their tickets to Cuba or North Korea.
Jim708 on November 28, 2008 at 5:16 PM
OK, you seem much more sensible here. Your earlier posts sounded like racist nonsense. I agree that there is a serious problem in low income majority black communities and it has been exacerbated by misguided attempts at political correctness, such as ignoring the problems of violent crime, joblessness, single-parent homes, etc., and their true root causes (almost always liberal policy).
I don’t see how you can utterly reject my claim that white women are more involved in this yearly Black Friday nonsense than any other group (though I admit it might have been a stretch for me to assume they’re normally “mild mannered”). Just look at the video clips coming out today. Who do you see?
Frankly, it would be odd to expect another group to outnumber them when it comes to rushing to participate in a retail sale. For one, women notoriously tend to be more likely to go shopping than men. For two, whites are more numerous than any other group and also tend to have more expendable income.
I wasn’t ever really referring to riots, but since you asked me to provide cases when “whites have rioted”, it’s happened quite frequently after sports teams won championships. Clearly (as Joe Strummer once lamented), whites aren’t exclusively participating in riots, but no race is without some number of bad apples.
Anyway, could you tell me why you even chose to make this particular story into a racial issue? And I’m still waiting on your solution to the black problem.
Sign of the Dollar on November 28, 2008 at 5:20 PM
That truly is disgusting. How selfish can people be in their quest for gifts and glory?
Achilles on November 28, 2008 at 5:21 PM
All I want to know – how will Europe blame Bush for this?
And, if it repeats itself next year, how will it still be Bush’s fault?
Entelechy on November 28, 2008 at 5:27 PM
Yet they are allowed to vote… hence my frustration with this election.
How long before we hear that it was “eight years of failed Bush policies” that caused these deaths?
cannonball on November 28, 2008 at 5:33 PM
The saddest thing is that the man was not a small man. He was very large. How does one not notice stepping on someone that large. It also angered me when the two ladies start laughing! WTF!! Someone has just died in front of you! And that is your response?! Does that happen so often and your heart is so cold that you laugh? Utterly despicable.
aggie13 on November 28, 2008 at 5:47 PM
You misunderstood my answer. You wanted to know what the problem is with many Americans who are black. I answered succinctly: Leftism. Here’s a longer answer: too many black Americans bought into Leftist ideology as implemented roughly two generations ago in nearly every factor of society.
baldilocks on November 28, 2008 at 5:50 PM
And this fact still has no relation to crowd mentality featured in this post.
baldilocks on November 28, 2008 at 5:51 PM
It always helps if the truth allegedly being told has some relationship to the subject being discussed–but that’s merely an observation.
baldilocks on November 28, 2008 at 5:54 PM
Greediness is not uniquely American, either, pambi.
cheeflo on November 28, 2008 at 5:55 PM
Someone please tell me the cops are investigating the heartless bastards. A horrible way to remember the Thanksgiving/Christmas season.
abobo on November 28, 2008 at 6:18 PM
I think WalMart might have some liability for failing to anticipate trouble and control the crowd, especially in an area well-known for lawlessness and violence. This is not to say that the idiots who made up the mob are not the primary culprits. But the family of the victim might have a case against WalMart for willful neglect, or some such violation of the law.
MrLynn on November 28, 2008 at 6:22 PM
So what kind of problems is Chicago in for on inauguration night? 4 million people a going to present some huge logistical problems. For instance, where is everyone going to stay? Where will the Obama revelers go to the bathroom? Who will pick up all the trash? What about security? What happens if 4 million Obama supporters stampede? I think we are going to be in for a show.
gringo69 on November 28, 2008 at 6:24 PM
These people were only doing what they have been programmed to do by the TV and government schools.
Just think what they will be capable of when they are not lining up for a freaking Wii, but for bread.
Can you say Martial Law?
rockhead on November 28, 2008 at 6:26 PM
I’m just happy to see that someone can spell it.
baldilocks on November 28, 2008 at 6:31 PM
Anyway, could you tell me why you even chose to make this particular story into a racial issue? And I’m still waiting on your solution to the black problem.
Sign of the Dollar on November 28, 2008 at 5:20 PM
well, I don’t think I chose to make it into a racial issue, I think it already was, but people,are too afraid of being called racist to mention it … we like to pretend that this sort of thing happens in all sorts of neighborhoods, among all sorts of people, but they really don’t. Do we agree that the first step is recognizing there IS a problem ? I think Bill Cosby had a bit of the right idea, to start saying that illiteracy, fatherlessness, and a glorification of gangster rap mentalities are not helping, rather hurting black communities…i would suggest we stop allowing people to frighten us with charges of racism out of frank discussion of the issues facing black america, for one…I think welfare has been a huge problem, where having another out of wedlock kid allows an inner city mother to collect MORE from the state…etc etc…
johngalt on November 28, 2008 at 6:31 PM
And this fact still has no relation to crowd mentality featured in this post.
baldilocks on November 28, 2008 at 5:51 PM
See, I think that it does. I don’t buy “crowd mentality” this is an example of urban BLACK mentality. so, I believe the discussion is relevant, in fact central to the case here …. the question to me is why has the black community become so violent and careless of human life and prone to riot at the drop of a hat ?
johngalt on November 28, 2008 at 6:34 PM
johngalt on November 28, 2008 at 4:16 PM
You misunderstood my answer. You wanted to know what the problem is with many Americans who are black. I answered succinctly: Leftism. Here’s a longer answer: too many black Americans bought into Leftist ideology as implemented roughly two generations ago in nearly every factor of society.
baldilocks on November 28, 2008 at 5:50 PM
you are correct, I missed your point and now I get it, thanks
johngalt on November 28, 2008 at 6:35 PM
dude, you are putting one foot in the grave. Do you want me to hand you a shovel so you can just bury yourself?
upinak on November 28, 2008 at 6:36 PM
johngalt on November 28, 2008 at 6:34 PM
dude, you are putting one foot in the grave. Do you want me to hand you a shovel so you can just bury yourself?
upinak on November 28, 2008 at 6:36 PM
All I’m doing is discussing something frankly that you want no part of because its politically incorrect. Unlike you, I’m not afraid of being labeled a racist, I don’t care what people think of me. Western civilization wants to politically correct itself into oblivion, perhaps, but I am not playing the game, sorry. I call them like I see them. There is a BIG PROBLEM in the black communities of america. Thats a fact, sorry.
johngalt on November 28, 2008 at 6:41 PM
Agreed. What’s with the repeated criticisms caught on the tape toward the end that the paramedics are not giving mouth-to-mouth resuscitation? What implication are they making? It’s obvious that they are using CPR, and mouth-to-mouth breathing is part of the process.
Isn’t Valley Stream the Long Island neighborhood that recently renamed its elementary school after Barack Obama?
The place sounds like a powder keg of greed, lawlessness, grievance-mongering, government entitlements, and cheap thrills. How many of its bargain hunters were going even further into credit hock to purchase status stuff?
Baldilocks, I agree with your point re crowd mentality oin general. At the same time, johngalt has a point about the environment in poor black communities leading to antisocial behavior that escalates into violence very quickly. Destructive rioting, burning, and looting historically arises with little provocation in these neighborhoods.
onlineanalyst on November 28, 2008 at 6:50 PM
SICK SICK SICK!!
and people wonder why other
nations hate us so much.
tamtam20 on November 28, 2008 at 6:50 PM
Well let me put it to you this way.
You are alienating people via something especially stupid. I.E. skin tone.
There is nothing different from someone in the south compared to the west coast (or anywhere in the world) other then mentality.
You happen to show where your mentality is… in a gutter.
upinak on November 28, 2008 at 6:52 PM
According to the New York Daily News:
aengus on November 28, 2008 at 6:52 PM
who cares about what other nations thin about us? why are u still here if the US is so bad? why are people dying to come here?
gringo69 on November 28, 2008 at 6:53 PM
Ahhh brotherly love. I bet the parking lot was a war zone too. Its what we’ve become, present company excluded.
In my town people make threats if an item isnt in stock. Material things arent worth all that are they? geeze. A person dead, two people shot, and thats just today.
johnnyU on November 28, 2008 at 6:54 PM
Let someone steal something and cops are there with tasers.
Let someone have heart failure, and no defib machine handy?
WTF?
johnnyU on November 28, 2008 at 6:56 PM
Whoops! I see you already posted that. Sorry.
aengus on November 28, 2008 at 6:59 PM
Here is a good sermon on this by a Reformed pastor that I think you will appreciate.
aengus on November 28, 2008 at 7:02 PM
LonG I-land? I am shocked it didn’t take place here, in crazy Caleeforneeah…I made the mistake of going to an eatery in the same parking lot as WalMart and was in a major traffic jam getting out. Never again on a Black Friday.
My prayers are with the family of the man who died; I hope they sue WalMart into AT LEAST doing the right thing (security detail outside, hello?) I wouldn’t mind if they went under…Yea, right, like that’ll happen; it would put too many Chinese children out of work and China can’t afford that.
Gotta go hit my head against the wall now.
Christine on November 28, 2008 at 7:28 PM
PALM DESERT, Calif. (AP) — Two people were shot to death in a crowded toy store on Black Friday in a confrontation apparently involving rival groups, city officials said.
“I think the obvious question everyone has is who takes loaded weapons into a Toys “R” Us?” he said. “I doubt it was the casual holiday shopper.”
“Some people got into a fight. One of the guys here thought it was over a toy, but it got louder and louder and then there were gunshots.”
Tony737 on November 28, 2008 at 7:36 PM
Thats right up there with killing someone over their sneakers.
Between that and the economy bouncing from greed, I think people should take a good look at themselves. Will they do anything? no.
johnnyU on November 28, 2008 at 7:56 PM
Sad is my first thought followed by anger and then pity on these poor worthless tools who think rushing a store for a deal on items most likely packed in closets a few months down the way is worth getting up at 4 a.m. I hope they think it was worth it.
Irvin88 on November 28, 2008 at 7:56 PM
That is not a mature response. By this logic any crisis in American life could be dealt with mentally by rejecting introspection and channeling one’s every negative feeling toward resentment at Europeans.
I must say though I am actually surprised that there have been a few comments singling this incident out as a reflection of specifically American greed which it certainly is not. Greed is a sin that anyone can succumb to.
aengus on November 28, 2008 at 7:58 PM
Does this officially signal the beginning of the end of our civilization? I wonder…
Wyznowski on November 28, 2008 at 8:24 PM
If the report of the doors being ripped out of the frame is accurate, the problem may have been that the frontmost people were pushed against the doors by the crowd as the doors opened. The first people getting in probably could do nothing more than move ahead. This is why emergency exit doors must open outward, as even a moments time taken to pull the door inward can result in a crushing pile up from people in back who don’t know the front isn’t moving. If this is the case, look for some serious lawsuits. Every place I’ve waited on early black fridays have passed out numbers and/or had workers outside maintaining a single line. Some even pass out ticket for the goods in short supply so latecomers will know if the items they seek are still available.
shuzilla on November 28, 2008 at 8:37 PM
Those were my thoughts as well, and the remarks of “nobody’s giving him mouth to mouth” “they don’t want to put their mouth on him.” And some of them were laughing. Hideous
Glynn on November 28, 2008 at 8:51 PM
YOU WROTE: “Consumerism as mass psychosis.”
THIS IS POSTMODERN LEFTIST GARBAGE.
BEING A CONSUMER IS GOOD.
BEING POOR IS BEING UNABLE TO BUY WHAT YOU WANT.
WE’RE LUCKY TO BE ABLE TO BUY THE STUFF WE WANT.
THE ABILITY TO BUY AND SELL WHAT WE CHOOSE IS WHY THE STUFF WE BUY ARE CALLED GOODS.
WE NEED TO MAKE ALL THE POOR PEOPLE OF THE WORLD INTO BETTER PRODUCER AND CONSUMERS.
THAT WILL NEVER EVER HAPPEN IS EVERYONE WHO CAN AFFORD TO BUY WHAT THEY WANT DOESN’T.
THAT’S A RECIPE FOR RECESSION AND DEFLATION.
THAT’S JIMMY CARTERESQUE.
CARTERESQUE CRAP.
AND I AM SHOCKED TO HEAR IT SOME FROM CAPT ED.
reliapundit on November 28, 2008 at 8:51 PM
Johngalt,
They aren’t getting what you are saying and I don’t think they ever will. They have been seduced by PCness.
The refuse to acknowledge that the black population makes up 13% of the country and yet crimes committed by blacks are disproportional. Add to that abortion rates, unwed mothers, absent fathers, black on black crime, poverty brought on by liberal nanny state policies, and many other ills and any rational person would conclude that there are serious problems in black dominated communities. The people in question come from those troubled communities and therefore brought their troubles into that store with them.
My wife and MIL went to a fabric store today. No riots, no deaths, no pushing. But what they did find was unbridled greed. There were people in line that had two shopping carts full of bolts of discounted fabric…..not two or three, but 20+ bolts! These people did not care if the material were needed by other shoppers. They were only concerned for themselves and didn’t want to wait in line again. Capitalism gives them the right to act that way….I am not speaking to capitalism. I am talking about people being motivated by an internal sense of fairness and concern rather than greed.
So, look at the two scenarios and you’ll find it is the values of the people involved that can be and MUST be excoriated for their behavior.
csdeven on November 28, 2008 at 9:01 PM
They were using a ventilator bag. Each time the paramedic stops the compressions you can see the guy at the victims head move in a manner consistent with the use of a ventilator.
csdeven on November 28, 2008 at 9:08 PM
It sounds like you are saying that trampling a man to death is justifiable because it was motivated by capitalism.
csdeven on November 28, 2008 at 9:12 PM
Hindu pilgrims crush each other once in a while, & The Who fans stampeded several (11?) to death years ago. It’s not just greed, it’s selfishness.
jgapinoy on November 28, 2008 at 9:13 PM
There was no miscarriage.
corona on November 28, 2008 at 9:22 PM
Yes, I know. I work in the medical field. I was simply repeating what was recorded on the tape and the callousness of those who stood and watched and made their casual observations. It seemed to be entertainment for them.
Glynn on November 28, 2008 at 9:27 PM
Ok, my mistake. You’re right…..the callousness is disturbing. If a Samaritan believed that they guy wasn’t being given mouth-to-mouth, he would be compelled to offer to do so himself.
csdeven on November 28, 2008 at 9:33 PM
I for one am not refusing to deny this. It was acknowledged and I even stated its origin.
The state of black America has nothing to do with crowd mentalities or even the laws of physics.
Race was inserted into this discussion gratuitously, that is, to Sow Discord. I could bring up the countless occasions during which barbaric behavior by whites has been observed but what would be the purpose? To Sow even more Discord. Kind of like Obama has done.
baldilocks on November 28, 2008 at 9:52 PM
It sounded more like outrage to me. (Not the laughter; that was disgusting.)
baldilocks on November 28, 2008 at 9:54 PM
Some of you are sounding like liberals. “Oh, consumerism is for morons!” “Walmart is EVIL!!!”. “Everyone who shops on black friday is greedy!!”.
Look at it this way. There are thousands and thousands of Walmarts here in the U.S. and one person dies (it is very sad, but hear….errr….read me out). Meanwhile, in the “progressive” continent of Europe how many people die from football (aka soccer) games each year due to riots or stampedes?
DethMetalCookieMonst on November 28, 2008 at 10:24 PM
I didn’t pick that up. But, as cdseven said, if he were outraged, why not do something about it. Why stand by and do nothing. Why not even make his feelings known to those attending the fallen man. But he didn’t.
Glynn on November 28, 2008 at 10:25 PM
Holy boy-you-sound-like-a-snobby-liberal, Batman. You think that most of the people in that video are fat? I’d hate to see your idea of skinny.
And people wonder why so many girls in this country are bolemic/anorexic.
DethMetalCookieMonst on November 28, 2008 at 10:31 PM
To me the guy seemed to be saying that the paramedics weren’t doing enough; that they were refusing to do mouth-to-mouth for some nefarious reason. That was the disgust I heard.
But are you saying that he should have interfered with the paramedics because he thinks that they are not doing enough to save the man’s life? That’s crazy (and illegal). Then you’d be saying “another whack job” and you’d be right.
baldilocks on November 28, 2008 at 11:19 PM
(cont.) Especially in light of the fact that he didn’t know what he was talking about.
baldilocks on November 28, 2008 at 11:20 PM
Black Friday brings out the worst in people. The selfishness displayed at this Wal-mart and the Toys R Us shooting in Palm Desert, CA are extreme examples of the greed that plague our country. We spend Black Friday at home doing online shopping and family activities.
jediwebdude on November 28, 2008 at 11:27 PM
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