The massacre in Mumbai may be over, but not without casualties. A rabbi and his wife were among those murdered….

Hard to imagine that India’s police reaction could be that slow-responding to 10 armed psychopaths. It’s possible the terrorists were just that good at executing their plan, but it seems more likely the cops weren’t good enough. India strongly suspe…

Strange, but I have not seen the story talking about what the Evil Government of India did to bring this upon themselves and how they are at fault for the terrorist attacks yet by the Media. :-)

JeffinSac on November 29, 2008 at 10:44 AM

Here you go (see Update IV).

Sorry maybe I am a madwoman but as the wife of an American active duty soldier for the last 23 years we have publicly witnessed the horror of these extremist groups enacted against our own. Its time they begin to feel the same fear and disgust that we feel when we see their version of “advocacy”. We will not know the long term effect of their actions for many years. As the body count climbs I pray not only for the victims of this horrible odyssey but for the future of the countries and their ability to progress in national security issues. Their targets were westerners and yet so many of the dead were Hindis. I pray the investigations reveal the guilty as soon as possible, for these two nuclear powers have longstanding tensions that could capitulate the demise of both countries.

Just how in the heck do you know anything about local politics… or follow the local elections… or know whats going on localy?

Romeo13 on November 28, 2008 at 10:29 PM

Actually, Connecticut only allows voters who are permanently resident overseas to vote in Federal elections. I’m not choosing local officials (other states do allow that). Are you saying that I’m incapable of assessing presidential candidates, or following house and senate voting records, just because I’m not currently resident in the state? I’m glad that I have your permission to do what I wish, but I’m even more glad that it isn’t your call.

Given this success don’t be surprised if this style of attack isn’t emulated elsewhere in the world.

Just another reason to get your Concealed Carry permit.

Yes rifle/explosive vs. handgun isn’t a fair fight, but at least it is a fight.

They hit India because they want to start a war between India and Pakistan, that way they will have more freedom of movement on the Paki border with Afghanistan. WE are their main target, once America is defeated, the rest of the world will beg to be first in line to convert and join the Caliphate.

Tony737 on November 28, 2008 at 3:32 PM

Sorry bud, you’re wrong. India has been fighting Islamic terrorism back from the time when your boys in the CIA were funding and training them to be more lethal. America has screwed up plenty on the war on terror, and still does with the patronage and aid to Pakistan.

Much more importantly, has Pakistan ever successfully tested a nuclear device? My recollection is “no”, the last test fizzled. Until one works, Pakistan is in a weak position. Maybe Pakistan can deliver a 10-15kT city-eraser, but maybe it will be a 1kT fizzle which will do little beyond give India the needed excuse to turn the top 5 Pakistani cities into ash. Pakistan may be unable to do the same to India.
Arbalest on November 28, 2008 at 9:49 PM

You may have seen OLD reports about Pakistan’s delivery capabilities which are now resolved.

However according to the Broadband Seismic Data Collection Center Reports:

Pakistan conducted 2-5 underground nuclear tests during the morning hours of 28 May, 1998. The Kyrgyzstan Seismic Network (KNET) recorded one test with an estimated magnitude of 4.8. Reports on the yield of the blast vary. This link will take you to a page that shows how kiloton yields can be measured. Vertical components for the first Pakistani test can be viewed here.

An additional test was carried out on the morning of 30 May, 1998. Estimates of the yield of this test are also variable. The second Pakistan test was obscured by aftershocks from the Ms 6.9 earthquake which occured about 30 minutes before the second test. Examination of the KNET waveform data, based on the QED location, shows no observable body waves at the predicted arrival times. Using the first Pakistani explosion for calibration, the amplitude of the second Pakistani explosion is at least a factor of four smaller (0.6 magnitude units) for it not to be observed in the aftershock data.

Three stations (AAK, CHM, TKM2) recorded the first Pakistani test. 6-8 stations recorded the Afghanistan earthquake-aftershock-predicted arrivals for 2nd Pakistani nuclear test sequence.

AND the fact that he is woefully underqualified and inexperienced…….

Poor Micelle….. must be wiping tears off his face while he sucks his thumb and nods off each night.

May we survive the next four years.

You don’t know what you are talking about. A US citizen permanently resident overseas can vote in their last state of residence. I vote in Connecticut, and I haven’t lived there for close to 30 years.

jic on November 28, 2008 at 8:23 PM
thankyou for making my point for me…

Just how in the heck do you know anything about local politics… or follow the local elections… or know whats going on localy?

Please, feel free to do what you wish, but the fact you can still vote there with not living there for THIRTY YEARS is simply ludicrous.

Romeo13 on November 28, 2008 at 10:29 PM

So American citizens living abroad give up their right to vote?

You don’t know what you are talking about. A US citizen permanently resident overseas can vote in their last state of residence. I vote in Connecticut, and I haven’t lived there for close to 30 years.

jic on November 28, 2008 at 8:23 PM

thankyou for making my point for me…

Just how in the heck do you know anything about local politics… or follow the local elections… or know whats going on localy?

Please, feel free to do what you wish, but the fact you can still vote there with not living there for THIRTY YEARS is simply ludicrous.

“India sees its nuclear arsenel as a deterrant. Pakistan sees it nuclear arsenel as the means to first strike and defeat Indias conventional forces.”

Pakistan is targeting military, industrial and energy-production installations, and cities. This is assumed and expected.

I’ve seen similar data to that you posted; the usual assumption is that the Pakistani weapons really work. I’m inclined to think they work well enough.

Much more importantly, has Pakistan ever successfully tested a nuclear device? My recollection is “no”, the last test fizzled. Until one works, Pakistan is in a weak position. Maybe Pakistan can deliver a 10-15kT city-eraser, but maybe it will be a 1kT fizzle which will do little beyond give India the needed excuse to turn the top 5 Pakistani cities into ash. Pakistan may be unable to do the same to India.

My points are that 1) because of the uncertainty, Pakistan is in a bad position today, and 2) the Mumbai murders might give India sufficient reason to attack Pakistan (and solve a number of problems). Given the current reality of Pakistan, 3) the Baluchis are likely to secede if given a chance, and 4) the Tribal areas might be able to throw off Islamabad control. 5) Whoever thought that the Mumbai murder spree was a good idea, miscalculated badly, and 6) many heads will be on display as a result.

Arbalest on November 28, 2008 at 7:31 PM

You may have outdated information. India sees its nuclear arsenel as a deterrant. Pakistan sees it nuclear arsenel as the means to first strike and defeat Indias conventional forces. War between those two countries would be devistating to both.

South Asia Monitor 14 October 2008

Pakistan’s nuclear forces: a gradual consolidation

Gurmeet Kanwal
Unlike India’s nuclear weapons and missile development programme that was completely indigenous, Pakistan received considerable external help and, in turn, has itself been a proliferator. Pakistan’s nuclear weapons – warheads and delivery systems – are India-centric and have been acquired with Chinese and North Korean help. While India follows a “credible minimum deterrence” doctrine and has declared a “no first use” policy, Pakistan follows a “first use” nuclear doctrine and seeks to convince India that it has a low nuclear threshold. India’s nuclear weapons are political weapons whose sole purpose is to deter the use and threat of use of nuclear weapons against India. Pakistan’s nuclear weapons are its first line of defence and it aims to use them to negate India’s conventional military superiority.

Pakistan has been testing its ballistic and nuclear-capable cruise missiles at the rate of one every two months on average. It is apparently engaged in improving the accuracy of its North Korean origin No Dong and Taepo Dong missiles and of the Chinese missiles M-9 and M-11. The Table below shows Pakistan’s nuclear delivery systems, their approximate ranges and the status of development. In addition, the air-launched cruise missile Raad (Hatf-VIII) was successfully tested in May 2008. This ALCM is claimed to be nuclear capable and has a range of 350 km.

Assuming that Pakistani scientists require 5 to 7 kilogrammes of plutonium to make one warhead, and 20 to 25 kilogrammes of HEU to produce a bomb, then Pakistan would have accumulated enough fissile material to be able to manufacture between 70 and 115 nuclear weapons by the end of 2006.” It can be deduced that Pakistan is moving quickly to close the nuclear warhead quantity gap with India and may even overtake it.

I did not include the table….

Yes. It’s what America, and every other civilized country does.

It would not surprise me in the least if every one of the Indian troops was titanically angered by what these Muslims are/were doing in Mumbai, and weren’t even considering any other action than to go in immediately, kill the terrorists and rescue all hostages.

Um, I know HERE its illegal to vote here unless you are a resident… are you therefore a resident of both countries?

Romeo13 on November 28, 2008 at 5:06 PM

You don’t know what you are talking about. A US citizen permanently resident overseas can vote in their last state of residence. I vote in Connecticut, and I haven’t lived there for close to 30 years.

The commander said his men had had to literally feel their way through the hotel corridors and rooms in complete darkness.

Get these guys a flashlight, quick! I’ve seen footage of them using flashlights, what’s the deal? Get them some NVGs and glow sticks!

Tony737 on November 28, 2008 at 2:40 PM

You know I can’t help but think of the bravery of these Indian troops crawling through the darkness trying to save the hostages. How horrible and terrifying it must have been. Thank God for brave men such as these. Yes night vision goggles would have been of great assistance but they didn’t have the benefit of them. They risked their lives attempting to save others. They deserve the respect of all of us. Would we have been willing to do the same?

… if you can’t abide by our way of life, THEN GET OUT!
Romeo13 on November 28, 2008 at 3:21 PM

Our way of life is to Muslims like a sweaty, warm blooded, naked human is to a swarm of hungry mosquitos.

Your apparent frustration is wholly understandable but the Muslims are not going to leave voluntarily and it will take more than shouting to be rid of them.

It looks like the Pakistani government is really trying to avert a war with India, since such wars do not go well for Pakistan. If Pakistan were to suffer a significant military defeat, say a successful Indian march to Qetta, a large chunk of SW Pakistan could easily become Baluchistan (the country). The NWFA and Tribal Areas could easily formally break away, since they are heavily Pashtun.

The remnants of Pakistan would be essentially the Indus River valley. This result might solve many problems, even a few for Pakistan. It might then be possible to retrieve the Pakistani nuclear items, with little objection from anyone. I think that China will remain silent.

A nuclear exchange might not happen. The Indian device works, the Pakistani device seems to not work, or not work well. India does not need to use nuclear weapons to defeat Pakistan; are the Pakistanis willing to risk retaliation for using an unreliable weapon?

India might stage a surgical strike to remove as many Pakistani weapons as possible. It makes sense, but and there’s no reason to risk letting the Pakistanis (or whoever gets control) drop one from a civilian airliner or float one over on a ship.

Who knew that one or more militant madrassas in Pakistan, and an assortment of Pakistanis, educated / born in Britain and living a middle- / upper-middle-class life, would be the trigger? Look at the pictures of the terrorists: they prove the “jihadism-is-caused-by-poverty” to be a lie.

I suspect that the ISI knew of this plan and thought it implausible, the result of adolescents watching too much “Mission: Impossible” re-runs and Bond movies. As soon as anyone, not a terrorist, gets killed, the terrorists will be killed, maybe captured. What government would take such a non-disavowable action?

But perhaps the ISI simply humored someone, expecting that eventually someone else would put a stop to this idiocy. How many of the ISI watched the events unfold, and then wondered how this was ever considered, how to get control, make things stop, … … find a way to remove any and all links and cover their asses?

I expect, over the next year or so, to see a large number of madrassas, clerics and other activists in Pakistan meet with accidents not covered by their insurance: a localized earthquake that shakes the building to the ground (igniting the remnants from one or more kerosene lamps); a telephone pole that suddenly steps in front of a cleric’s speeding car; cellphones that attract large falling objects; one’s head now comes off with one’s turban (that’s what the pictures will show); all really unforeseeable events.

And not one Hellfire involved.