Quote of the day

posted at 10:00 pm on November 26, 2008 by Allahpundit

Obama: There’s the belief, certainly in some quarters, that people haven’t embraced Jesus Christ as their personal savior that they’re going to hell.

Falsani: You don’t believe that?

Obama: I find it hard to believe that my God would consign four-fifths of the world to hell. I can’t imagine that my God would allow some little Hindu kid in India who never interacts with the Christian faith to somehow burn for all eternity. That’s just not part of my religious makeup.


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If I were to construct a God I would furnish Him with some way and qualities and characteristics which the Present lacks. He would not stoop to ask for any man’s compliments, praises, flatteries; and He would be far above exacting them. I would have Him as self-respecting as the better sort of man in these regards.
He would not be a merchant, a trader. He would not buy these
things. He would not sell, or offer to sell, temporary benefits of the joys of eternity for the product called worship. I would have Him as dignified as the better sort of man in this regard.
He would value no love but the love born of kindnesses conferred; not that born of benevolences contracted for. Repentance in a man’s heart for a wrong done would cancel and annul that sin; and no verbal prayers for forgiveness be required or desired or expected of that man.
In His Bible there would be no Unforgiveable Sin. He would
recognize in Himself the Author and Inventor of Sin and Author and Inventor of the Vehicle and Appliances for its commission; and would place the whole responsibility where it would of right belong: upon Himself, the only Sinner.
He would not be a jealous God — a trait so small that even men despise it in each other.
He would not boast.
He would keep private His admirations of Himself; He would regard self-praise as unbecoming the dignity of his position.
He would not have the spirit of vengeance in His heart. Then it would not issue from His lips.
There would not be any hell — except the one we live in from the cradle to the grave.
There would not be any heaven — the kind described in the world’s Bibles.
He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when he could have made him happy with the same effort and he would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy.
– Mark Twain

MB4 on November 26, 2008 at 11:19 PM

I love Reagan, but I believe he used that “lame excuse” too.

jgapinoy on November 26, 2008 at 11:01 PM

…then, he was wrong…then again, he is quoted as saying that he believed that everyone was basically good…has it written on his tombstone, in fact…flies in the face of Scripture…so even the beloved RR could err….

…even such a man as Clinton managed to make it to church….

Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 11:19 PM

Men rarely, if ever, manage to dream up a God superior to themselves. Most Gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child.
- Robert A. Heinlein

Good point. Any unbiased observer would find the life & words of Jesus Christ to be unimpeachable & inspiring. He is divine.

jgapinoy on November 26, 2008 at 11:21 PM

…even such a man as Clinton managed to make it to church….

…for political purposes, like BHO.

jgapinoy on November 26, 2008 at 11:22 PM

MB4 on November 26, 2008 at 11:19 PM

…but, then, Mr. Twain didn’t claim to be a Christian that I’m aware of…he was rather judging God…a common human failing….

…we’ll all know better…later….

Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 11:22 PM

MB4 on November 26, 2008 at 11:19 PM

Heh…a far more detailed version of my own belief that a god worthy of human worship wouldn’t give a rat’s ass if he was worshipped or not.

flipflop on November 26, 2008 at 11:22 PM

I carry the personal idea that God is merciful, and will not condemn a good person to hell solely for belief.

On the flip side, I don’t think a murderer gets to go to heaven solely because he asks forgiveness, and declares Jesus Christ as his lord and savior.

I try to live by the Bible, and I trust God to sort these issues out.

Hawkins1701 on November 26, 2008 at 10:54 PM

It took me a very long time from when I tagged this post to figure out how to respond because there is so much involved here and you clearly don’t get it about what the Bible says.

God already knows our hearts and what we will do. Salvation is not through our acts but what is in our hearts. God will condemn to hell those who have heard his word and have rejected it. Agnostics, Atheists, practicing homosexuals, secular humanists- all headed to hell.

A murderer doesn’t get a pass into heaven because he/she asks forgiveness any more than a “devout Christian” avoids hell by outward acts. It’s all about what is in the hearts oof those involved. Again, God already knows all of this and a murderer who is truly repentent of his past life will be saved even if a deacon of a church is not because he isolates part of his life from salvation.

highhopes on November 26, 2008 at 11:23 PM

…for political purposes, like BHO.

jgapinoy on November 26, 2008 at 11:22 PM

…well, to his credit, Mr. Clinton only claimed to be wonderful…Mr. Obama are letting folks claim him to be semi-divine….

…maybe that’s why he’s been shy to get to church…joining the congregation in the worship of oneself, after all, is showy….

Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 11:24 PM

…maybe that’s why he’s been shy to get to church…joining the congregation in the worship of oneself, after all, is showy….

Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 11:24 PM

Nah…he just doesn’t like the competition.

flipflop on November 26, 2008 at 11:26 PM

Hey… MB4… I’ll bring the stogies if you bring the booze! We can trade anecdotes with Twain, and throw crap at Hitler…

Romeo13 on November 26, 2008 at 11:17 PM

It will be a real blast furnace!

MB4 on November 26, 2008 at 11:26 PM

Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
- Mark Twain

MB4 on November 26, 2008 at 11:06 PM

I’m a loner and love the sunshine.

thomasaur on November 26, 2008 at 11:27 PM

MB4,

Because God is unique as an all-glorious, totally self-sufficient Being, he must be for himself if he is to be for us. The rules of humility that belong to a creature cannot apply in the same way to its Creator. If God should turn away from himself as the Source of infinite joy, he would cease to be God. He would deny the infinite worth of his own glory. He would imply that there is something more valuable outside himself. He would commit idolatry. This would be no gain for us. For where can we go when our God has become unrighteous? Where will we find a Rock of integrity in the universe when the heart of God has ceased to value supremely the supremely valuable? Where shall we turn with our adoration when God himself has forsaken the claims of infinite worth and beauty? No, we do not turn God’s self-exaltation into love by demanding that God cease to be God. Instead we must come to see that God is love precisely because he relentlessly pursues the praises of his name in the hearts of his people.

jgapinoy on November 26, 2008 at 11:27 PM

You got to ‘love’ people who want a God who does everything that’s demanded of Him and behaves exactly as they wish He did.

Then, of course, that’s not God, that’s a genie or the tooth fairy.

If one is going to start with the idea of an omniscient and omnipotent God…

…then one must also realize that one will never fully understand something so far above and beyond them.

Religious_Zealot on November 26, 2008 at 11:29 PM

Salvation is not through our acts but what is in our hearts. God will condemn to hell those who have heard his word and have rejected it.

highhopes on November 26, 2008 at 11:23 PM

Uh, if he already knows what we are going to do, and also what is in our hearts, then why would he condemn us?

We either have free will, and are thus judged by our beliefs and actions… or it is predestined, and our acts are preordained by the creator and thus cannot be judged by a Just God…

sorry, can’t belive in a God that does not make sense.

Romeo13 on November 26, 2008 at 11:30 PM

my own belief that a god worthy of human worship would’nt give a rat’s ass if he was worshipped or not.

I’ll fix your quote:
my own belief that a God worthy of human worship would give up his home in Heaven, his dignity, his health, & even his life on the cross if he was worshipped or not.

jgapinoy on November 26, 2008 at 11:31 PM

Heh…a far more detailed version of my own belief that a god worthy of human worship wouldn’t give a rat’s ass if he was worshipped or not.

flipflop on November 26, 2008 at 11:22 PM

Man is a marvelous curiosity. He thinks he is the Creator’s pet. He even believes the Creator loves him, has a passion for him, sits up nights to admire him, yes and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to him and thinks He listens. Isn’t it a quaint idea.
- Mark Twain

MB4 on November 26, 2008 at 11:32 PM

MB4 on November 26, 2008 at 11:16 PM

…Roddenberry…now, there’s a great theologian….

…hostile to religion, apparently, and the purveyor of socialist utopianism (Star Fleet officers never arguing was holy writ!), but called in for a snappy quip about the general worth to society of a god…any god…gods with capitalized names especially….

…stack him in there with the usual Heinlein quotes about spoiled children…let ‘im stew….

…I’d have to say that both gentlemen are closer to an understanding of the matter now than any of us opining on the subject….

…simply put: read the Bible, enough of it to arrange the truth of the matter. Don’t rely on your logic. For one thing, assume that there might be some things out there that you just don’t understand…and upon which you’ve long been judging…for, while this bit of humility in scholarship is long out of fashion, it is the beginnings of understaning that with which you thought yourself familiar….

…a lot of people know at Christianity…few people take the time to do the homework….

Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 11:32 PM

A Christian friend of mine said that if I don’t believe in God, I must not believe in Heaven or Hell. I said, on the contrary, no…Heaven is dying peacefully with the knowledge that on balance, you’ve lived a good life and touched others positively…Hell is dying bitter and angry with the knowledge that you’ve been an asshole all your life.

flipflop on November 26, 2008 at 11:32 PM

jgapinoy on November 26, 2008 at 11:31 PM

…died for us while we were still his enemies…yup….

…I’m waiting for you to be wrong…hasn’t happened yet….

Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 11:34 PM

We either have free will, and are thus judged by our beliefs and actions… or it is predestined, and our acts are preordained by the creator and thus cannot be judged by a Just God…

sorry, can’t believe in a God that does not make sense.

Romeo13 on November 26, 2008 at 11:30 PM

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
- Epicurus

MB4 on November 26, 2008 at 11:34 PM

He prays to him and thinks He listens. Isn’t it a quaint idea.

Try as you might, you won’t change my mind on that one. God has directly answered too many of my prayers–a few times miraculously–for me not to believe in prayer.

jgapinoy on November 26, 2008 at 11:36 PM

MB4 on November 26, 2008 at 11:34 PM

I read something a while back that went something like: “God is good. God is omnipotent. Evil exists. You can square any two of those, but not all three”.

flipflop on November 26, 2008 at 11:37 PM

Then why call him God?

Because he is merciful enough to withhold your punishment long enough for you to consider trusting in him.

jgapinoy on November 26, 2008 at 11:38 PM

Perhaps this is Hell we are living in right now.

Bishop on November 26, 2008 at 11:39 PM

MB4…are you quoting from an atheist smart-aleck’s desk calendar?

…as I said earlier…if we fall into the trap of debating what we each believe, piling quote upon quote to support our faith or lack of it, our reason (or lack of it), our own personal philosophies (or borrowed ones), we’ll lose the point of the thread….

…that being, that a now-powerful politician, who’s letting people freely proclaim his virtue, clearly doesn’t understand not what is or what isn’t, what’s logical and what’s not…but what his professed religion teaches….

…well…what Christianity teaches…there’s no telling what besides racism Jerry Wright taught….

…myself, I’m a presbyterian…ask me about it should a presbyterian thread arise….

Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 11:39 PM

MB4

FWIW – I never thought much of the “quote” game…

…you know, where we pick and chose quotes from other people who may or may not have had any real knowledge of what they speak.

Besides, what exactly does it prove or accomplish? There’s enough quotes on both sides of the aisle to render any conversation useless.

But, if we’re going to play, here’s a couple:

“A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading.”
- C. S. Lewis

“In another century there will be not be a Bible on Earth”
- Voltaire (died 1788)

Religious_Zealot on November 26, 2008 at 11:39 PM

We all have a free will. We are not predestined to do anything. God knows what will be the end result but allows us to make our own decisions.

Have faith.

Vince on November 26, 2008 at 11:39 PM

flipflop on November 26, 2008 at 11:32 PM

Words mean things. You can come up with your own play-language if you want, but Heaven & Hell are names of real places.

jgapinoy on November 26, 2008 at 11:40 PM

I read something a while back that went something like: “God is good. God is omnipotent. Evil exists. You can square any two of those, but not all three”.

flipflop on November 26, 2008 at 11:37 PM

The problem there is that free will is never factored in.

Religious_Zealot on November 26, 2008 at 11:40 PM

Obama is lecturing God on morality. Barack is just being Barack. He tends to be a little impatient with those who disobey.

snaggletoothie on November 26, 2008 at 11:41 PM

“In another century there will be not be a Bible on Earth”
- Voltaire (died 1788)

I like this:

Nietzsche, 1800s: “God is dead”
God, 2008: “Nietzsche is dead”

jgapinoy on November 26, 2008 at 11:42 PM

Heh…a far more detailed version of my own belief that a god worthy of human worship wouldn’t give a rat’s ass if he was worshipped or not.

flipflop on November 26, 2008 at 11:22 PM

God doesn’t desire your worship for his benefit, but for yours.

Kjeil on November 26, 2008 at 11:43 PM

I once played Black Sabbeth backwards at 78 rpm and saw God.

Kini on November 26, 2008 at 11:44 PM

Nietzsche, 1800s: “God is dead”
God, 2008: “Nietzsche is dead”

I came up with that about 15 yrs ago & sent the idea to a Christian t-shirt manufacturer. I’ve seen a couple of them being worn since then.

jgapinoy on November 26, 2008 at 11:44 PM

MB4 on November 26, 2008 at 11:34 PM

…called the Problem of Evil, debated since way before Epicurus gave us your quoted quip…it’s right up there with “how do birds fly” and “what happens when we die” as a point to ponder….

…with apologies to the excellent moderators here, it’s not likely to be addressed with any sense or reason, let alone any seriousness, on a blog like this….

…the only thing we can manage to do is muddy things up, offend eachother, pile quote upon quote in a one-upsmanship fashion…and end up p*ssing eachother off in an area many of us hold very dear and personal….

…that is to say, it’s a damned serious subject which should be approached damned seriously…so I’m shutting up on it now…let me know when we’re back to talking about Obama….

Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 11:46 PM

God doesn’t desire your worship for his benefit, but for yours.

A brief version of what I quoted at 11:27.

jgapinoy on November 26, 2008 at 11:46 PM

Nietzsche, 1800s: “God is dead”
God, 2008: “Nietzsche is dead”

jgapinoy on November 26, 2008 at 11:42 PM

Left out the last line…

Sanitarium Nurse: “Guy in 310 who thinks he’s god is off his meds agian…”

Romeo13 on November 26, 2008 at 11:47 PM

MB4

The Reason for God by Timothy Keller. I dare you.

LEBA on November 26, 2008 at 11:49 PM

Romeo13 on November 26, 2008 at 11:47 PM

Nietzsche predicted that the increasing popularity of atheism in his day would usher in a new age in the twentieth century. It did…an new age of evil, with more war casualties, more genocide, and more politically motivated killing than the rest of history combined.

jgapinoy on November 26, 2008 at 11:51 PM

Sanitarium Nurse

Actually, Nietzsche went quite loony in his latter days, & his sister, following his teachings, sold tickets to the public to view the famed philosopher in his insanity.

jgapinoy on November 26, 2008 at 11:53 PM

Wow. So some people from some quarters believe that. Who gives a rat’s ass what people like Huckabee think. They don’t represent me. They don’t represent all christians.

wise_man on November 26, 2008 at 11:53 PM

FWIW – I never thought much of the “quote” game…

…you know, where we pick and chose quotes from other people who may or may not have had any real knowledge of what they speak.

Religious_Zealot on November 26, 2008 at 11:39 PM

…nor have I, but I’ve played it myself to my shame….

…the point of the game is to shut up the opposition with some tasty tidbit from some very serious and respectable-sounding source….

“My, did George Washington/Albert Schweitzer/Gandhi/Buddah really say that?! Well, I’d just better shut my nasty, untutored mouth and completely re-think my existence! Thank you, awfully!”

…of course that it never works…one always finds oneself faced with someone who ate an encyclopedia for breakfast, and never runs out of pithy quips…some of them even on-topic….

…besides…when you quote Scripture at a cat, you waste your breath and risk annoying the cat.

…arguing religion with the irreligious (or, even more often, with someone thinks almost like you) puts a muddy trench between you and someone with whom you might agree on other things…life’s too short….

…wait to talk about the intricacies of religion when it can be done with respect to both parties….

Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 11:55 PM

Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 11:46 PM

And just for the record, it’s not my intent to mock any true believers here. Even though I don’t practice Christian doctrine, I hold Christian values, and I believe those values are what keep true civilization, well, civilized.

flipflop on November 26, 2008 at 11:55 PM

I read something a while back that went something like: “God is good. God is omnipotent. Evil exists. You can square any two of those, but not all three”.

flipflop on November 26, 2008 at 11:37 PM

The real problem here is with the words omniscient and omnipotent – in that we think that these are words that describe something concrete and measurable.

However, the truth is that these words describe concepts of things that are beyond our ability to completely comprehend.

They are a lot like the word infinity – which, again, does not concretely define anything. It actually describes a concept which, while real, goes beyond our ability to completely understand or comprehend. This is why you can’t really use ‘infinity’ in a mathematical equation or scientific experiment. It doesn’t work because it represents something that we don’t understand (e.g. infinity + 1 can be computed, but the answer is literally (and almost nonsensically) infinity).

Thus, anytime we say something like “God is omnipotent thus…” (fill in the blank), we are completely misusing and misunderstanding the word omnipotent. If something is truly omnipotent, than it is, by definition of the concept, beyond our ability to completely understand it.

Thus, we can not use logic against it to create some kind of determinable answer.

This especially gets confusing when we realize that this omnipotent God has put certain limits upon Himself (binding Himself to His creation and creating free will).

Religious_Zealot on November 26, 2008 at 11:55 PM

There is no god, there is only Obama. I agree with him on this ONE point.

No one burns in hell.

I’ll go one step further. No one goes to heaven.

Religion sucks.

It sucks because it tries to raise itself above common sense.

For example; turning the other cheek.

What a crock of BS.

I happen to know who god is, and he has come to me through my own thoughts and aspirations. He asks nothing of me and I ask nothing of him. We coexist peacefully because we have seen good men fight for principles and misguided men fight for position.

God helps those who helps themselves.

It’s called liberty, freedom and justice for all.

Those who refuse to acknowledge the common decency of individuals are the enemies of those who understand what a just and merciful god would want our world to look like.

I hold these truths to be self evident because this is how I live my life.

Anyone who disagrees can kiss my azz.

Semper Fi

I love AMERICA!

winemkr on November 26, 2008 at 11:55 PM

MB4…are you quoting from an atheist smart-aleck’s desk calendar?
Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 11:39 PM

That pony isn’t talented enough for a second trick.

wise_man on November 26, 2008 at 11:56 PM

I love AMERICA!

except for those Americans who disagree with you.

Anyone who disagrees can kiss my #$&#@*.

jgapinoy on November 27, 2008 at 12:01 AM

Good on ya, Prez-elect Obama :-), good on ya.

Hatemongers, OPEN FIIIRRREEEE!!!!!

HotAirJosef on November 27, 2008 at 12:02 AM

I once played Black Sabbeth backwards at 78 rpm and saw God.

If you play “Mob Rules” backwards at 45 rpm, you can hear devil worship chants.

If you stand on your head during that time, you will hear Scritti Politti from the same recording.

Odd.

Bishop on November 27, 2008 at 12:03 AM

I happen to know who god is, and he has come to me through my own thoughts and aspirations

There are a million religions in the world, & you demonstrate how they get started.
You have no facts to base your religion on.
Would you die for the sake of your faith?
My Christianity? Many who have tried to prove it wrong have ended up trusting in Jesus.

jgapinoy on November 27, 2008 at 12:04 AM

Even though I don’t practice Christian doctrine, I hold Christian values, and I believe those values are what keep true civilization, well, civilized.

flipflop on November 26, 2008 at 11:55 PM

…in Christianity, there’s the concept of common grace…some believe…and not believing, this or anything else, doesn’t invalidate what is objectively true…anyway….

…as to what you say about religion, there’s this from the epistle of James, Chapter 1, verse 26:

If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person’s religion is worthless.

…apropos here, no? Shoot off your mouth like…well…God’s gift, and you’re off track….

…there’s also the next verse, 27:

Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world. (emphasis added for clarity)

…there’s a lot more, of course, and a lot more to worship than civility, but we’re on the same page, n’cest pas?

…some are only worried about themselves…some reach out beyond themselves and worry about he world…some just reach out that little bit further….

Puritan1648 on November 27, 2008 at 12:04 AM

winemkr on November 26, 2008 at 11:55 PM

You contradict yourself all over the place. Suffice it to say that Christianity recognizes there is a difference between good and evil, and you pick your battles wisely.

chunderroad on November 27, 2008 at 12:05 AM

God made Man.

Samuel Colt made men equal.

Thank God for men such as Sam Colt, John Browning and Carlos Hathcock II.

Bishop on November 27, 2008 at 12:06 AM

That pony isn’t talented enough for a second trick.

wise_man on November 26, 2008 at 11:56 PM

…now, now…first we dig in our heels, then we let loose….

…the thing is, with our heels all dug in, we’re at risk of toppling over backwards….

…allow the man his opinions…even if they’re other peoples’….

Puritan1648 on November 27, 2008 at 12:07 AM

I find it hard to believe that my God would consign four-fifths of the world to hell. I can’t imagine that my God would allow some little Hindu kid in India who never interacts with the Christian faith to somehow burn for all eternity.

Matt. 19:4 “But Jesus said, Suffer the little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for to such belongeth the kingdom of heaven.”
Obama says God loves all the little children of the world,, and would never consign four fifths of the world to hell.
Sounds like Obama is admitting God has much more compassion for the little children than he does.
Where as, Obama is stating he believes God would never send little Hindu children to hell,, Obama supports policies that would abort those same little Hindu children or even refuse them a doctor while they lay dying in a bucket from a botched abortion.
God sending little children to hell? I don’t know about that. but I would think,, if hell has any purpose at all,, it is for those who shed innocent blood. And if God loves little children so,, I would not want to be the one standing before Him on judgment day,, I would not want to be the ones responsible for ripping those same little children, that Obama says God loves so much,, from their mother’s wombs,, cutting them into pieces and tossing them to the floor.

JellyToast on November 27, 2008 at 12:07 AM

…then, he was wrong…then again, he is quoted as saying that he believed that everyone was basically good…has it written on his tombstone, in fact…flies in the face of Scripture…so even the beloved RR could err….

…even such a man as Clinton managed to make it to church….

Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 11:19 PM

“I know in my heart that man is good. That what is right will always eventually triumph. And there’s purpose and worth to each and every life…I’ve always believed that we are, each of us, put here for a reason, that there is a plan, somehow a divine plan for all of us.” ~ ~ Ronald Reagan

Those who refuse to acknowledge the common decency of individuals are the enemies of those who understand what a just and merciful god would want our world to look like.

I love AMERICA!

winemkr on November 26, 2008 at 11:55 PM

They just won a big election. Sad.

Entelechy on November 27, 2008 at 12:10 AM

I don’t know about that.

I do.

jgapinoy on November 27, 2008 at 12:11 AM

Entelechy on November 27, 2008 at 12:10 AM

Reagan gave us 1983, the Year of the Bible…but he didn’t believe it?

jgapinoy on November 27, 2008 at 12:13 AM

…or else he didn’t understand it. Or read it.

jgapinoy on November 27, 2008 at 12:13 AM

Is this AP’s way of instigating the evangelicals in to making the GOP even more despised a brand than it already is? Christianity is what you do, not what you say you believe in front of others. All you heartless bastards who deny the man’s faith because he refuses to publicly claim his own mother is in hell are killing more potential believers with your disgusting arrogance than science ever will. You are the reasons I stayed home, refusing to vote Mc Palin. To hell with all of you.

abobo on November 27, 2008 at 12:42 AM

MB4…are you quoting from an atheist smart-aleck’s desk calendar?
Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 11:39 PM

That pony isn’t talented enough for a second trick.

wise_man on November 26, 2008 at 11:56 PM

Ah shucks. Maybe you two pilgrims will like this from an even better known “smart-aleck”/pony.

I have examined all the known superstitions of the world and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth. The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind to filch wealth and power to themselves. They, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.
- Thomas Jefferson

MB4 on November 27, 2008 at 12:42 AM

Wow.

Brb, getting my voodoo doll…

Spiritk9 on November 27, 2008 at 12:43 AM

You are the reasons I stayed home, refusing to vote Mc Palin. To hell with all of you.

abobo on November 27, 2008 at 12:42 AM

You gave us Obama. That’s hell right here.

Entelechy on November 27, 2008 at 12:46 AM

Is this AP’s way of instigating the evangelicals in to making the GOP even more despised a brand than it already is? Christianity is what you do, not what you say you believe in front of others. All you heartless bastards who deny the man’s faith because he refuses to publicly claim his own mother is in hell are killing more potential believers with your disgusting arrogance than science ever will. You are the reasons I stayed home, refusing to vote Mc Palin. To hell with all of you.

abobo on November 27, 2008 at 12:42 AM

That’s called “cutting your nose off to spite your face”. Also, that “despised” GOP brand got quite a number of votes with a fairly weak presidential candidate. It was even ahead in the polls when a “heartless” bastardette was placed in the #2 spot on the ticket. Careful with the thoughtless invective there. Accusations of hypocrisy can also be one of the last refuges of the scoundrel.

ddrintn on November 27, 2008 at 12:51 AM

ddrintn on November 27, 2008 at 12:51 AM

Sometimes the face needs spiting, just ask Jacko. Also, I accuse nobody here of hypocrisy, simply of relegating a venerable party to short term disarray and long term irrelevance.

abobo on November 27, 2008 at 12:59 AM

Obama: I find it hard to believe that my God would consign four-fifths of the world to hell.

The core of liberal “thinking.” Namely, that people deserve the best of everything simply for being alive, and that severe punishment is only for people they don’t like.

TMK on November 27, 2008 at 1:11 AM

FWIW – I never thought much of the “quote” game…

Religious_Zealot on November 26, 2008 at 11:39 PM

“Quotation is a serviceable substitute for wit.”

-Oscar Wilde

StartinOver on November 27, 2008 at 1:23 AM

Nah, I’ve already been told that I’m going straight to Hell for my belief structure… heck, I’ll probably be driving the Bus that takes Bambi to He11!

Romeo13 on November 26, 2008 at 10:29 PM

Should be a pretty smooth ride with all those-soon to be victims of the incoming administration’s good intentions- paving the road.

soundingboard on November 27, 2008 at 1:25 AM

This guy talks a lot more about religion than Palin does. And seems more sure that his beliefs are relevant to public policy. Just sayin’.

kcewa on November 27, 2008 at 1:45 AM

I wonder what Obama thinks God’s response to those defending INFANTICIDE will be?

TheMightyQuinn on November 27, 2008 at 1:47 AM

If I ever caught religion, I could never worship the kind of monster that would extort my praise with the threat of eternal torture.

On Obama – I hope at least one Republican wandered into this thread and wondered if Kathleen Parker might not have had a point, after all. Obama’s religion shouldn’t be a subject of political discussion.

RightOFLeft on November 27, 2008 at 2:10 AM

I think the bottom line here is the answer to the question,

“…what is in his heart, what is in his soul, can his word be trusted?”

……… because, he will have the power to send troops to war and people will die, to sign legislation that will become law over us, to be accountable for his promises, or is it easy for him to lie, to lead justly or will the next four years be a puppet on a string by someone we will never see………..

That is why this question is so important, “What is his faith, what does he believe in?”

……………. then ask “why the fu#k are all your records sealed?”

Seven Percent Solution on November 27, 2008 at 2:25 AM

The question is NOT, “How can a loving God send people to Hell just because of what they believe?” Romans 2 answers that question (for the Hindu children, too).

The question IS, “How can a perfect and just and holy God allow anything other than perfect holiness and righteousness into His eternal presence?”

A God who tolerates trash has compromised His values. Such a God is not worthy of worship.

skydaddy on November 27, 2008 at 2:41 AM

It’s a good job that it’s all nonsense anyway, isn’t it? After all, who would want to spend eternity in a place full of killjoys quoting The Bible all the time?

OldEnglish on November 27, 2008 at 2:58 AM

You gave us Obama. That’s hell right here.

Entelechy on November 27, 2008 at 12:46 AM

No friend, the retards that put up a sellout neocon against the Liberals gave us Obama.

Get your facts straight.

leetpriest on November 27, 2008 at 3:07 AM

Obama: I find it hard to believe that my God would consign four-fifths of the world to hell. I can’t imagine that my God would allow some little Hindu kid in India who never interacts with the Christian faith to somehow burn for all eternity. That’s just not part of my religious makeup

I found it hard to believe that 53% of the country would consign five-fifths of the U.S.A to hell.

Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

leetpriest on November 27, 2008 at 3:12 AM

The question should not be about why God doesn’t take some people whom we consider to be good into heaven. The question should be about why does God choose to take any of us sinners into His heaven. We think that Mankind is good and deserves to go to heaven, but that is an unbiblical view. None of us deserve heaven. We may think that we are good because society accepts us and our acquaintances accept us, but God’s standards are much higher. He demands perfection. Nobody can earn their way to heaven.

At the same time, we think that God has a sentimental mushy kind of love that will forgive everybody who is worse than ourselves. God however reveals Himself to also be a God of Justice and holiness. He doesn’t “grade on the curve.” All of us have broken God’s laws and a penalty must be paid. That is why Jesus died, to pay our penalty. All of us, including the seemingly innocent young Hindu boys, deserve the painful torture of the cross and eternal hell. God is not unfair when He lets people go to hell. He is unbelievably gracious when He allows some, a minority, to undeservedly go to heaven.

mydh12 on November 27, 2008 at 3:17 AM

progressive Christians

Um…not Christians.

Seriously, make your own religion but stop calling it what it isn’t. Every religion has it’s own creed and salvation road, however inclusive it might be. Point is, Christianity cannot be “tweaked” because the bible will not be altered. It is what it is. You can do a Thomas Jefferson on it but it won’t matter. It will still remain. Chose wisely!

Mommypundit on November 27, 2008 at 3:54 AM

that wasn’t all supposed to be quoted, but, whatever.

Mommypundit on November 27, 2008 at 3:55 AM

Well, it’s been a while but let’s see if I can still play this game:

…just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
- Jude 1:7

Did angels dwell in the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah or was it men?

Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. “And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
-Revelation 14:9-11

Do angels recieve the mark of the beast or do men?

Claims to the contrary, my christian upbringing always included eternal hellfire for anyone that died with sins upon their souls. There was no reprieve and no appeal.

Browncoatone on November 27, 2008 at 3:59 AM

The One just has a problem with the “Do not have any other gods before me” part, for obvious reasons

Glenn Jericho on November 27, 2008 at 5:33 AM

He comes up with a lame excuse that his presence will disrupt church proceedings.

I love Reagan, but I believe he used that “lame excuse” too.

I would accept this excuse from Obama if I knew more.

Moammar Qadaffi had an assassin hit-squad out for Reagan at the time. He writes in his diary often that it bothers him that he doesn’t go.

I doubt if Obama’s risk is as much, but surely he doesn’t want to risk himself getting shot.
*It’s not that he’s scared, but he can’t risk it…for the world’s sake. /sarcasm

Glenn Jericho on November 27, 2008 at 5:43 AM

I have proof that ObaMcCarthy is a real Christian.

Christ taught that we must let the little children come unto him. ObaMcCarthy is committed to that premise throughout his opposition to the born alive infant protection act and and his general support for abortion.

csdeven on November 27, 2008 at 6:16 AM

Ummmmmmmm………………… what about the babies that survive an abortion and are left in a janitor’s closet to die alone in the cold?

…………. what type of hell would you call that?

Seven Percent Solution on November 26, 2008 at 10:06 PM

I doubt BHO has a answer to that.

Dritanian on November 27, 2008 at 6:49 AM

Besides a believer in abortion could hardly call himself a christian with a straight face.

Dritanian on November 27, 2008 at 6:50 AM

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
- Epicurus

The idea that God is willing, and able, to vanquish evil, but allows it to exist in order that Man might have choice. Because God has no need of slaves, nor has He any need for those who serve Him out of fear. He seeks sons, willing servants. He seeks those who would say, “I would serve God even if it were to damn me to Hell, because He is worthy of my service, and for no other reason.” Those who would regard God as the personification of their own highest values, and so regard their highest values as service to Him. Without evil, without suffering and strife, there would be no choice.

So in regards to Obama’s statement about the little Indian who has no interaction with God or knowledge of the death, burial, resurrection and triumph of Christ over sin, death, and the Grave, that little Indian boy exists in a state of grace, as he has not had a choice to make.

Spc Steve on November 27, 2008 at 7:02 AM

Religious “makeup” aka cosmetics!
Obama has no place except his slimey
soap box telling anyone anything
when it comes to faith.
Obama is his own god.

maverick muse on November 27, 2008 at 7:47 AM

There’s no open blog yet for the new day…

HAPPY THANKSGIVING, FOLKS!

maverick muse on November 27, 2008 at 7:47 AM

Happy Thanksgiving to one and all. On this uniquely American holiday. I know that we shall survive and overcome the challenges that face us today. My ancestors began streaming in from around the world over 200 years ago. Some came in first class cabins, others in chains, but I am so glad they came. My son is away from home yet another Thanksgiving doing his country’s work in places few of us would ever want to visit. To him I say “Semper Fi” Matthew. I have great hope for the future.

JonRoss on November 27, 2008 at 7:56 AM

Blessings and good fortune upon you and your house JonRoss. May your son and his unit return home victorious, healthy and soon!

Browncoatone on November 27, 2008 at 8:00 AM

“There are set before you fire and water; to whichever you choose, stretch forth your hand. Before you are life and death, whichever you choose will be given you. Choose life!”
–Sirach 15; 14-17

Now, go roast your turkey and have a happy Thanksgiving!

missouriyankee on November 27, 2008 at 8:00 AM

There’s so much ignorance, arrogance and stupidity in in these comments the thread is going to explode.

Dave Rywall on November 27, 2008 at 8:22 AM

Christ said whomever believed in Him, he never said “For three years at least you have to believe”, he never gave a time or place commitment…indeed on the Cross He proved that.
And he already said “Blessed are the children…”, knowing full well children do not understand the concept of “believing”.
Read if for what it is worth…when faced with Him, if you deny Him, you are not going to be with Him…he knows in your heart (indeed he knew you in the womb as the Psalm states), where you stand with God.

right2bright on November 27, 2008 at 8:24 AM

I find it hard to believe that my God

The GOD of the Bible is the REAL GOD, not the god BHO has created.

oldleprechaun on November 27, 2008 at 8:24 AM

I agree with BHO on this one. That has been my reasoning as to why I don’t believe in organized religion. They can’t all be right. Which means that a solid majority of religions people are wrong. And somehow I doubt that if a god does exist he’d really send 60 or 70 or 80% of the world to hell because they went with the wrong crowd.

Is this really what conservatives will fight Obama on now? Do you guys really want to lose 50 states in 2012?

angryed on November 27, 2008 at 8:27 AM

My take on the question – I believe in Jesus, that he is the way. If there is another way, I have no experience with it. Let those who believe (in something) understand why and be able to defend, without arrogance toward those who believe elsewhere.

exdeadhead on November 27, 2008 at 8:28 AM

They just won a big election. Sad.

Entelechy on November 27, 2008 at 12:10 AM

Happy Thanksgiving E. fwiw, sorry for the bad news. Joy to you.

JiangxiDad on November 27, 2008 at 8:34 AM

I came up with that about 15 yrs ago & sent the idea to a Christian t-shirt manufacturer. I’ve seen a couple of them being worn since then.

jgapinoy on November 26, 2008 at 11:44 PM

Well, you were about 25 years late, that was a common quote in the late 60′s…

Which calls to mind the finest-ever graffito that I personally saw.
*1965su:On the entrance to the NYC subway at the main gate of Columbia University, someone had written =
“God is dead — Nietzsche”
Just below this, someone else wrote =
“Nietzsche is dead — God”

right2bright on November 27, 2008 at 8:36 AM

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