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Massive terror plot in Mumbai; 80 dead, 250+ injured; Update: 900 injured; Update: “Chatter” points to Al Qaeda? Update: 10 separate attacks

posted at 3:03 pm on November 26, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Awful, and doubly worrisome in light of the FBI alert issued this morning for the NYC subway system. According to CNN, they hit the airport, two hotels, a cafe, a railway station and a gas station — and there may be more on the way. The Foreign Ministry’s opened a war room to deal with it.

Has there ever been an attack with this many targets?

Armed with AK-47 rifles and grenades, a couple of terrorists entered the passenger hall of CST and opened fire and threw grenades, Mumbai General Railway Police Commissioner A K Sharma said.

The terror strike which began at 10:33 PM at Chhatrapathi Shivaji Terminus(CST), formerly known as the Victoria Terminus(VT), claimed 10 lives in the premises of the station alone, police said.

Three persons were killed in a bomb explosion in a taxi on Mazegaon dockyard road and an equal number were gunned down at Taj Hotel. The victims in the hotel were its employees.

The lobby of the Oberoi hotel was on fire and the hotel evacuated, eyewitnesses said.

Maharashtra DGP A N Roy said tonight’s attack in “at least seven places” is a “terror strike.”

No word yet on how many are involved, but the fact that they’re using guns and grenades instead of suicide bombs makes me wonder if this isn’t some homegrown group or a Pakistani jihadi outfit like Lashkar e-Taiba instead of AQ. LeT members were arrested in connection with the last attack on Mumbai, so there’s precedent. You might be hearing the name “Dawood Ibrahim” pop up in the coming hours, too; revisit this post by our old friend Clint Taylor for essential background.

Update: As expected, Counterterrorism Blog points the finger at LeT and a native Islamic student group.

Update: DrewM at Ace’s site claims that the hotel attackers demanded American hostages among the guests, specifically.

Update: Total chaos.

Update: At the Standard, Thomas Joscelyn asks a question wonders if an attack of this scale and coordination doesn’t point to Pakistan’s ISI.

Most, if not all, of the targets are places that cater to westerners – restaurants, hotels, trains, etc. Moreover, the terrorists have laid siege to a couple of hotels and the terrorists are incredibly mobile, moving from location to location. The attacks are ongoing and the casualty count keeps rising. The result is a traumatized city and nation.

It is too early to tell with any precision who is behind these attacks. The smart money is on the multi-headed hydra of terrorist and extremist groups based in Pakistan and Kashmir. Indeed, Pakistan’s intelligence service has waged a proxy war against India using terrorists for decades. The two nuclear powers have avoided a large-scale exchange, but the Pakistani ISI has repeatedly sponsored or aided terrorist groups targeting civilians in India. For example, Indian authorities were quite vocal in blaming Pakistan for the July 11, 2006 train bombings, which killed more than 200.

Update: A clue, maybe, as to how they pulled this off without no one noticing anything. How young are we talking about here?

“They were very young, like boys really, wearing jeans and T-shirts,” Rakesh Patel, a stunned British guest at the Taj, told an Indian television channel. He said he had been among about a dozen foreigners who had been herded together by two heavily armed men and taken up to the hotel’s upper floors.

“They said they wanted anyone with British and American passports and then they took us up the stairs. I think they wanted to take us to the roof,” he said. He and another hostage had managed to escape when they reached the 18th floor, he said.

Update: A group no one’s ever heard of called the Deccan Mujahedeen is taking credit. What’s worse: If they’re lying or if they’re telling the truth, which would mean amateurs somehow pulled off an attack this sophisticated?

Update: Correction — looks like they’re been heard from before.

Update: Unbelievably, the Times of India now says more than 900 have been injured. How is that possible absent at least one monster blast that wounds hundreds of people all at once? And again, just how many attackers are we talking about here? Is there an army parading through the streets of Mumbai?

They got a bunch of top cops, too. How?

The attacks have taken a tragic toll on the city’s top police brass: The high-profile chief of the anti-terror squad Hemant Karkare was killed; Mumbai’s additional commissioner of police (east) Ashok Kamte was gunned down outside the Metro; and celebrated encounter specialist Vijay Salaskar was also killed.

More:

Some media reports attributed the attack to Lashkar-e-Taiba. There were also unconfirmed reports that some of the terrorists came in by sea. A boat laden with explosives was recovered later at night off the Gateway of India.

Update: Supposedly, western intel picked up “chatter” in the last few weeks suggesting a terror spectacular in the works to welcome Obama to the global fray. They’re assuming it’s AQ, but this doesn’t look like any other AQ attack I’ve ever heard of and India’s never been a big preoccupation of the leadership. Even so, here you go:

The multiple attacks on Westerners in Bombay tonight showed all the signs of an al-Qaeda strategy — picking on vulnerable Western “soft targets” but not in a country where there would be maximum security. The bombing of Western targets in Bali in 2002 when al-Qaeda-linked terrorists planted bombs in touristfavoured restaurants and nightclubs was another example where the terror group switched its resources to achieve maximum impact.

Counter-terrorist experts said that India would have been selected for the latest spectacular “probably because that’s where al-Qaeda have sufficient resources to carry out an attack on this scale”. One counter-terrorist expert told The Times: “They don’t choose for the sake of it, they look to see where they have the greatest capability and then order an attack,”

The key to this attack was the search by the armed terrorists for American and British passport holders. With a reported 40 Westerners being held hostage, the terrorists currently have the upper hand. The counter-terrorist sources said targeting Bombay’s most luxurious hotels and a crowded railway station had all the hallmarks of an al-Qaeda operation.

If this is an international group like AQ, I wonder if their next try in America won’t involve more mundane weapons like guns and grenades instead of something grand scale to try to duplicate their success here.

Update: Via Danger Room, there’s already a Google Map available to show you how spread out the attacks are. And here’s a Flickr page of photos from the rubble.

Update: The Indian army’s reportedly moving in on the hotels where hostages are being held. We’re in for either one of the great rescue operations in history or another Beslan.

Update: Roggio suspects the Deccan Mujahedeen are a front group for the usual suspects.

Indian intelligence believes the Indian Mujahideen is a front group created by Lashkar-e-Taiba and the Harkat ul Jihad al Islami to confuse investigators and cover the tracks of the Students’ Islamic Movement of India, or SIMI, a radical Islamist movement. The groups receive support from Pakistan’s Inter-Service Intelligence and are al Qaeda affiliates.

Update: No details yet but IBN says 50 people have been rescued from the Hotel Taj.

Update: MSNBC was streaming IBN just now and a correspondent speculated that we’re looking at maybe 100 suspects here, maybe more. How was a group that large trained and equipped well enough to carry out coordinated attacks without anyone leaking or Indian counterterror knowing about it? See now why Roggio thinks ISI might be at work here?

Update: There have been six separate explosions at the Hotel Taj, apparently, and 10 separate attacks across the city in all, according to IBN. I would never have guessed that any terror group was capable of pulling this off, be it AQ, Hezbollah, or whoever.


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This doesn’t take the ISI to plan. These kinds of attacks take watches and weapons. Pick you targets, coordinate your watches, have a few dry runs in terms of knowing the turf and then just doing it. Inside knowledge is helpful but not necessary.

The real key to pulling it off is being ready to die.

patrick neid on November 26, 2008 at 5:33 PM

I will be very interested in Obama’s response to this. And I have to give it to him, I think Biden is a lying ass, but damn if he didn’t call this exactly.

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 5:34 PM

OK, I withdraw my original comment about doubting the 900 figure. The rest of my comment still stands.

PappaMac on November 26, 2008 at 5:34 PM

From Politico.com: “No word yet from Obama on Mumbai attacks By ANDY BARR | 11/26/08 4:33 PM”

From MSNBC.com: “Tonight on Countdown: Politico hack and butt-boy for the Bush Administration Andy Barr receives Worst Person In The WOOOOOOOORRRRLLLLLLLLD!”

ScottMcC on November 26, 2008 at 5:34 PM

Right. India must be saved at all costs. A threat against one democracy is a threat against all democracies.

kanda on November 26, 2008 at 5:34 PM

I will be very interested in Obama’s response to this. And I have to give it to him, I think Biden is a lying ass, but damn if he didn’t call this exactly.

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 5:34 PM

My cat could have called it….you show weakness, carnage will follow.

HornetSting on November 26, 2008 at 5:35 PM

And I have to give it to him, I think Biden is a lying ass, but damn if he didn’t call this exactly.

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 5:34 PM

Biden was talking about something much, much bigger than this, I think, and something that would happen after inauguration. At least, that’s my translation of the Bidenese.

progressoverpeace on November 26, 2008 at 5:35 PM

This is bound to be connected to what the Somali pirates did with the Oil Tanker, since Mumbai has Oil Refinaries that come from there. To me, it says the Somali Pirates were given orders from somewhere

jp on November 26, 2008 at 5:37 PM

“terorists are in control of the city”.

Paul-Cincy on November 26, 2008 at 5:17 PM

Oh that’s funny as hell. They are boxed in, some inside a burning building. The only thing they are controlling at this point is there sphincters and I doubt all are being successful.

Guardian on November 26, 2008 at 5:21 PM

…just flashed on something….

…I’m thinking…”Tet ‘68…Saigon…the Embassy assault…Nha Trang…Hue…the Citadel…Khe Sahn….”

…then, I think “Cronkite”….

…these guys are doomed…the Indians were taught their business by the British, and they haven’t forgotten the lesson…these guys went into this probably knowing that they were doomed….

…and, just as in Tet ‘68, all they need to do is look as if they’re bad-ass, and appearance will be broadcast as fact…and some would-be Walter will intone the hopelessness of it all….

…all we need is an update of the Nguyen Ngoc Loan photo, summarily executing some obliging “martyr”, and it’ll we’ll have the cherry on top of this bloody sundae….

…those not entertained when history repeats itself are too stupid to appreciate irony….

Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 5:37 PM

uh oh at least 4 terrorists have gotten killed. Thats 72×4 = 288 virgins. Wow!

kanda on November 26, 2008 at 5:38 PM

@ progressoverpeace on November 26, 2008 at 5:35 PM

The fact that this involves Pakistan though, the ONE country Obama was being hawkish on during the campaign, kind of paints him into a corner. And I highly doubt this is the last attack. IF AQ was involved in this, this has the hallmark of a diversion attack. A few guys with AKs and grenades doesnt sound like a main attack to me.

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 5:38 PM

Right. India must be saved at all costs.

Nobody must be saved “at all costs”. Let India and Pakistan duke it out, and as hot as they need to make it. That serves everyone best.

A threat against one democracy is a threat against all democracies.

kanda on November 26, 2008 at 5:34 PM

Democracy means nothing. However, any attack by arab/persian/muslims is a threat to the civilized world.

progressoverpeace on November 26, 2008 at 5:39 PM

@ jp on November 26, 2008 at 5:37 PM

Don’t know if you would have to give them orders to take something like that. Might have just been a tipoff. The amount of money that a tanker could bring to a pirate wouldn’t require much convincing to go after.

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 5:40 PM

Sky says 15 Spaniards are being held hostage

lodge on November 26, 2008 at 5:40 PM

progressoverpeace on November 26, 2008 at 5:39 PM

Are you sure about that?

kanda on November 26, 2008 at 5:40 PM

Biden was talking about something much, much bigger than this, I think, and something that would happen after inauguration. At least, that’s my translation of the Bidenese.

progressoverpeace on November 26, 2008 at 5:35 PM

Right. This isn’t what Biden was talking about. He meant something against us, not a foreign country. What just happened may very well have been practice for something planned here though. As it’s been pointed out before, this can easily be duplicated at shopping malls during Christmas shopping, etc.

Guardian on November 26, 2008 at 5:40 PM

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 5:38 PM

Agreed. And BHO’s hawkish view on Pakistan was one of the only things I agreed with him on (though not stating it for campaign fodder – that was pretty stupid). But I don’t think he has the brains or the guts. We’ll see.

progressoverpeace on November 26, 2008 at 5:42 PM

Are you sure about that?

kanda on November 26, 2008 at 5:40 PM

Yes.

progressoverpeace on November 26, 2008 at 5:43 PM

Nobody must be saved “at all costs”. Let India and Pakistan duke it out, and as hot as they need to make it. That serves everyone best.

progressoverpeace on November 26, 2008 at 5:39 PM

That is nuts and precisely what these attacks are designed to precipitate. Osama and other terrorists would love it if what you suggest happens.

lexhamfox on November 26, 2008 at 5:43 PM

Has there been any estimates on the number of hostages yet?

cryptojunkie on November 26, 2008 at 5:43 PM

Frankly, I am amazed that we haven’t seen similar attacks here in the US, because of how simple it is to coordinate something like this.

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 5:30 PM

…oh…it’s even easier than that….

…there’re plenty of folks with a grudge against the West…plenty of ‘em right here in the US…arm ‘em, assemble ‘em, give ‘em general targets and timetables, and turn ‘em loose…they know that they can be assured of the requisite press coverage….

…this isn’t a military operation…it’s an open-air bar fight…with toys….

…could it happen here?

…well, up ’til Nov. 4th, I’d've said “fair to middlin’ chance”…after Nov. 5th? One word comes to mind: “Kevlar”….

Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 5:45 PM

@ Guardian on November 26, 2008 at 5:40 PM

AQ wouldn’t attack during Christmas. They are too smart for that. They never attack when we expect one.

While we are on the subject of terrorism btw, HIGHLY recommend the movie “Traitor”. By far the best movie I have seen this year, and one of the best movies on terrorism I have seen. Simply an amazing movie.

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 5:46 PM

Has there been any estimates on the number of hostages yet?

cryptojunkie on November 26, 2008 at 5:43 PM

…”hostages” is such a detached, bloodless word….

…more accurate: “guys we haven’t killed yet”….

Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 5:46 PM

Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 5:45 PM

Do you mean “Kevlar” as in flak jacket or helmet?

kanda on November 26, 2008 at 5:47 PM

That is nuts and precisely what these attacks are designed to precipitate. Osama and other terrorists would love it if what you suggest happens.

lexhamfox on November 26, 2008 at 5:43 PM

Find me another way that the Pakistani nuclear arsenal is going to get either depleted or control wrested from the Pakistanis, which is one of the most important tasks to be accomplished.

progressoverpeace on November 26, 2008 at 5:47 PM

@ Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 5:45 PM

Sure there are some people already here, but are there people here who wouldn’t think twice about walking into an elementary school and killing a hundred children? I would think that it takes a special kind of person to do something like that, and that is what I fear we will see next here in the US.

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 5:47 PM

I’m sorry, did I miss something?

Africa, and world, celebrate Obama victory

Seven Percent Solution on November 26, 2008 at 5:48 PM

Worldwide Chaos coming folks.

With the American economy in turmoil, there is no way we can continue as the worlds policeman. The Barbarians are at the gate, and our army is already overseas defending someone else.

Add in what may very well be a weak American President… with an agenda that will force an HUGE internal American fight?

I’m not an isoloationist, but its time for us to look after ourselves… we can’t go in further debt to support countries who will not fight on their own.

S. Korea? Germany? Japan? do we really need troops there when our own southern border is wide open?

Do we really need to give Saudi Arabia military aid?

Time to look out for ourselves FIRST, set our own house in order… because things are NOT looking good for the hometeam.

Romeo13 on November 26, 2008 at 5:48 PM

@ cryptojunkie on November 26, 2008 at 5:43 PM

I heard 200 hostages on Fox News.

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 5:48 PM

A threat against one democracy is a threat against all democracies.

kanda on November 26, 2008 at 5:34 PM

Democracy means nothing. However, any attack by arab/persian/muslims is a threat to the civilized world.

progressoverpeace on November 26, 2008 at 5:39 PM

Both countries are nuclear. It’s noteworthy that groups from Pakistan frequently attack India. There have been several in the last year. Actually, there are always ongoing attacks. We never hear about India or groups within India attacking Pakistan. However, we do hear about constant civil unrest within Pakistan.

Pakistan is a violent, Ph$cked up country, and much of it has to do with its religion. India, on the other hand, is a burgeoning country with a growing middle class, under employment, a class structure to be dealt with, poverty and numerous problems, yet India is peaceful and does not foment aggressive acts against anyone. Why is that?

The answer is obvious.

Cody1991 on November 26, 2008 at 5:50 PM

Why would fox news have 200 hostages? Are they in india too?

kanda on November 26, 2008 at 5:50 PM

Romeo13 on November 26, 2008 at 5:48 PM

I agree one hundred percent.

We also must end the practice of nation building. Our efforts our noble, indeed, but they are a huge economic burden.

We need to coalesce back at home, secure our borders, revive our economy, and keep the Islamists at bay with Spec Ops working with a higher number of intelligence officers around the world, and UAVs. We can keep terrorists at bay, destroy their camps, etc etc.

blatantblue on November 26, 2008 at 5:51 PM

that is what I fear we will see next here in the US.

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 5:47 PM

Yep. The goal is terror, and the cost/payoff ratio couldn’t be higher than if someone shoots up an elementary school or, say, maternity ward.

It’s not nice to try to think like the bad guys, especially since these bad guys are pushing the evil envelope. We have to make ourselves do it though, if we’re going to come close to covering the bases when it comes to security.

TexasDan on November 26, 2008 at 5:52 PM

Now i heard dozens of hostages on fox news.

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 5:52 PM

Find me another way that the Pakistani nuclear arsenal is going to get either depleted or control wrested from the Pakistanis, which is one of the most important tasks to be accomplished.

progressoverpeace on November 26, 2008 at 5:47 PM

Oh yeah a nuclear war between India and Pakistan will enhance American and everyone else’s security. You should apply for a job on the NSC.

lexhamfox on November 26, 2008 at 5:52 PM

Sure there are some people already here, but are there people here who wouldn’t think twice about walking into an elementary school and killing a hundred children? I would think that it takes a special kind of person to do something like that, and that is what I fear we will see next here in the US.

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 5:47 PM

…absolutely.

I agree that it takes a “special kind of person to do something like that”…and we have ‘em in spades…the shootings at Columbine, that Virginia college, elementary schools (often by shooters who were kids themselves)…no question….

…the more attention these broken toys get, the more chance we have of copy-cats….

…the only thing keeping them from killing a hundred school kids? Enough ammunition and a steady enough aim….

Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 5:53 PM

TexasDan on November 26, 2008 at 5:52 PM

*BINGO*

Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 5:54 PM

When the Indian terrorist negotiator went into the hotel to negotiate the terrorists, they shot him dead immediately. Now if that doesn’t get Obama’s attention I don’t know what will.

kanda on November 26, 2008 at 5:54 PM

lexhamfox on November 26, 2008 at 5:43 PM

And I would add, a hot war between India and Pakistan would have them bombing cities left and right and we would finally have the idiocy of fighting wars within the post-WWII ROE that we follow exposed.

progressoverpeace on November 26, 2008 at 5:55 PM

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 5:46 PM

I don’t see AQ having a hands-off policy during Christmas. To them this is a religious war and I wouldn’t take a Christmas attack off their wish list.

Guardian on November 26, 2008 at 5:55 PM

going “Fortress America” has a huge Economic Cost, seeing as how we live in a Globalized world and are dependent on things like Oil Shipments making to our ports in a timely manner

jp on November 26, 2008 at 5:56 PM

Romeo13 on November 26, 2008 at 5:48 PM

I agree.

lodge on November 26, 2008 at 5:56 PM

for that matter, 9/11 had a huge Economic cost. I think it was estimated as a $1 Trillion hit to our Economy

jp on November 26, 2008 at 5:56 PM

There will be such attacks and worse here in the USA. The question is what we,you and I, not our butterspined government, will do about it.

dhimwit on November 26, 2008 at 5:58 PM

Cody1991 on November 26, 2008 at 5:50 PM

Yep. And I would add that the same geography that protected that area from many in the past serves to keep any exchanges between them (even nuclear) contained, which cannot really be said for many other parts of the world. The Indian PM already stated, in 2001, that India could sustain hits by the full Pakistani arsenal and live to obliterate Pakistan (those were almost his exact words).

Someone has to start taking this fight to the arab/persian/muslim enemy territory and to their people and the rest will follow and that threat will finally be neutralized.

progressoverpeace on November 26, 2008 at 5:58 PM

Do you mean “Kevlar” as in flak jacket or helmet?

kanda on November 26, 2008 at 5:47 PM

…yes. Don’t think I misspelled it….

Point, less the ballistic fabrics: after 5 November, with the advent of the Revenge of the Carter/Clinton Administrations, it’s wise to rely on body armor, ball ammo and keeping your eyeballs pealed….

…we have a lot of good and true security folks out there…but, in an atmosphere where Border Partol guys can jailed for doing their jobs, it’s a case of “once someone’s bitten, the rest are shy”….

…national security is becoming a self-service activity….

Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 5:58 PM

I’m wondering why Mr. Obama, President Elect, the Office of isn’t at the White House right now asking President Bush:

…..”Can I sit in on this?”

Seven Percent Solution on November 26, 2008 at 5:59 PM

When the Indian terrorist negotiator went into the hotel to negotiate the terrorists, they shot him dead immediately. Now if that doesn’t get Obama’s attention I don’t know what will.

kanda on November 26, 2008 at 5:54 PM

That would be thought provoking for any sane man.

the_nile on November 26, 2008 at 5:59 PM

lexhamfox on November 26, 2008 at 5:52 PM

I gave my reasons why. Give me your reasons why not.

progressoverpeace on November 26, 2008 at 5:59 PM

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 5:47 PM

Yeah, I’ve thought for some time that attacking schools at the same time in a couple of dozen cities across the U.S would pretty much shut us down for a while. Look what the D.C. snipers did, and they were just a couple of mooks. Folks can put up with some hardships but when our kids are threatened, stuff unravels. Then some misdirected retribution vigilantism and the balloon goes up.
That’s the kind of enviorment they want to create. Obama would be worthless in that kind of scenario.

a capella on November 26, 2008 at 6:01 PM

jp on November 26, 2008 at 5:56 PM

It is difficult at best to have a rational discussion with some people when it comes to isolationism. It has been tried unsuccessfully before. As late as 1940 it allowed Hitler free rein in Europe and nearly brought England to her knees. Now with the economies of the world so closely tied it is no longer possible. Thankfully only a minority of people even discuss it anymore.

kanda on November 26, 2008 at 6:03 PM

But gee, Obama implied if we just wrapped up al Qaeda we would be fine and live in peaceful harmony. Now your telling me there is another group we have to worry about — and their Islamic too! Well, I hate to say it, but maybe Bush was right to attack terrorism rather then just one organization.
David

LifeTrek on November 26, 2008 at 6:03 PM

@ a capella on November 26, 2008 at 6:01 PM

Oh, the economy would stop if they did that. It would be absolutely devastating for this country. Who would send their kids to school after something like that?

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 6:04 PM

Now that Obama is moving into the drivers seat, does he still believe defeating evil should be done with some humility?

In Excess on November 26, 2008 at 6:04 PM

a capella on November 26, 2008 at 6:01 PM

They could just steal trucks and drive them down sidewalks, over cafes and into malls.

You can never, in a free society, defend against anyone who wishes nothing more than to create chaos. Chaos is just too easy to cause, while order takes so much time and effort.

The only way to fight these enemies is to take it to their homes, ruthlessly.

progressoverpeace on November 26, 2008 at 6:04 PM

@ progressoverpeace on November 26, 2008 at 6:04 PM

Its not about chaos. Its about fear. Chaos calms down, and then people go back to normal activities. Fear stays in people’s minds forever.

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 6:07 PM

Someone has to start taking this fight to the arab/persian/muslim enemy territory and to their people and the rest will follow and that threat will finally be neutralized.

progressoverpeace on November 26, 2008 at 5:58 PM

Yes. That is why I believe our ties with India are underplayed. More than any other country in South Asia they are the power house and have the ability to control what happens. They will do it. Most Americans do not understand the history between these two nations. Deplorable as our support of Pakistan has been, I think our support of India is far greater. It’s just that not much is said about it.

This is as big a front on terrorism and the struggle for democracy vs jihad as is Israel and Palestine. My guess is that Israel works well with India… just a guess. And I think India is well capable of sorting this out.

Cody1991 on November 26, 2008 at 6:09 PM

It is difficult at best to have a rational discussion with some people when it comes to isolationism. It has been tried unsuccessfully before. As late as 1940 it allowed Hitler free rein in Europe and nearly brought England to her knees. Now with the economies of the world so closely tied it is no longer possible. Thankfully only a minority of people even discuss it anymore.

kanda on November 26, 2008 at 6:03 PM

yep, its not a zero-sum question. i.e. we withdrawal automatically means we save money. Thats the big fallacy of it, Hitler cost us a fortune.

jp on November 26, 2008 at 6:09 PM

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 6:07 PM

maybe but back in ‘Nam there was a lot of fear but after we finished “killing a commie for Christ” it went away.

kanda on November 26, 2008 at 6:10 PM

The religion of peace in action. To be frank I hope the attacks intensify and become larger and more numerous so that secular-democracies finally wake up and realize what they should’ve on 9/11, that we are in a civilizational war against Islam and work to defeat this fascist, totalitarian dark ages death cult, just as we eliminated Nazism.

thinkagain on November 26, 2008 at 6:11 PM

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 6:07 PM

I view chaos and fear as siblings in these circumstances.

progressoverpeace on November 26, 2008 at 6:12 PM

The only way to fight these enemies is to take it to their homes, ruthlessly.

progressoverpeace on November 26, 2008 at 6:04 PM

Exactly. People such as these can only be dealt with effectively in one way.

When the Indian terrorist negotiator went into the hotel to negotiate the terrorists, they shot him dead immediately. Now if that doesn’t get Obama’s attention I don’t know what will.

kanda on November 26, 2008 at 5:54 PM

Negotiating will at the least be useless and could even get you killed. You don’t talk to these a**holes. You kill them.

Guardian on November 26, 2008 at 6:12 PM

Guardian on November 26, 2008 at 6:12 PM

You are a poet. notice how your last two sentices both started with “you”.

kanda on November 26, 2008 at 6:14 PM

@ progressoverpeace on November 26, 2008 at 6:12 PM

In some circumstances. For example, 9/11 was chaos for me. I was in Northern VA, and after it was over, there was no risk to my life. Other than being glues to the news, i went on living normal. A few years later, the DC snipers happened. That was fear. When i went to pump my gas, I would kind of duck behind things, and believe me I wasn’t the only one.

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 6:17 PM

Jesus..:-(

therightwinger on November 26, 2008 at 6:18 PM

progressoverpeace on November 26, 2008 at 6:04 PM

…the things we would most need are resolve and the willingness to act….

…not, I must say, the willingness to fall back onto the anti-democratic, statist, anti-traditionalist, and ultimately anti-American ideologies promulgated by the left through the media, entertainment industries, schools and other “intellectual” outlets for the last forty years as we saw very soon after 9/11 is a willingness to let the bad guys prevail…it is an erosion of both the resolve and the willingness to act I mention….

* example, the “let’s not blame the innocent Muslims”, when said “innocent Muslims” seemed slow to respond to the outrages perpetrated by their co-religionists,

* example, the alacrity with which the “anti-war” movement (read: anti-America-ever-defending-itself movement) was parading through DC with those disgusting and childish oversized puppets and signs equating Mr. Bush to Hitler,

* example, the continued existence of groups like Code Pink, who actively provide aid and comfort to our enemies,

…we need to have and show resolve…that resolve being that we protect our own…and, should any racial bilge be attempted, remember that a fair proportion of the folks killed on 9/11 weren’t of the “preferred color”, as the chimeras of the left might be counted on to say….

…and we need to be willing to act, and to get all caught up in some foolish public bitch-fest over what is or isn’t the “moral” course of action, in the “best American tradition”….

…the best American tradition is to ignore threats until the ceiling tiles are on fire and the carpet’s soaked in blood…and then take forever to get organized…there’s a change Mr. Obama might want to consider making….

…resolve to do whatever it takes — you know, like killing bad guys, which one would think a generation of video-gamers would have no qualms doing — but hit ‘em where it hurts ‘em…wallets first, then at home…where it’s them trying to protect their vulnerable ones….

…as a nation, we need to begin reading more Machiavelli and less Joel Osteen….

Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 6:18 PM

kanda on November 26, 2008 at 6:14 PM

Not sure what you mean. Is this better for you?

We shouldn’t talk to these a**holes. We should kill them.

or better yet.

I wouldn’t say a word to these a^^holes. I would put them down like a rabid animal.

Guardian on November 26, 2008 at 6:22 PM

You are a poet. notice how your last two sentices both started with “you”.

kanda on November 26, 2008 at 6:14 PM

…hmmm…not speaking for my neighbor, but I wonder if it would make you feel better if he’d started his last two sentences with “Allow me to”….

…there’s been a lot of discussion on this thread about the posibility of the events playing out in Mumbai (I’m sorry, I still think of it as “Bombay”…and Zimbabwe as “Rhodesia”…and Iraq as “that sh*thole”…but I digress) playing out here on our own streets…in that case, “allow me to…” has some relevance…and would be best said in the same tone as “Pardon me while I…”.

…there may be a lot of bluster here, but the subject lends itself to some personal outrage, n’cest pas?

Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 6:25 PM

Obama should be all over this. After all, India is a really big country. No like that tiny country Iran.

PappaMac on November 26, 2008 at 6:31 PM

Guardian on November 26, 2008 at 6:22 PM

Yes either of those is much much better we includes you and me. and I includes you. See?

Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 6:25 PM

You are always the diplomat sir. I still call it Bombay too. I call iraq…”injun territory” though, sorry.

kanda on November 26, 2008 at 6:32 PM

I just found out that one of my co-workers has family staying in one of the hotels. Apparently her aunt and uncle were vacationing there when they heard the bombs going off and smelled smoke but were told to stay in their rooms.

She just got word from her cousin that they are safe for the moment and is now rushing out the door to be with family. Needless to say, she is terribly worried about them.

The Ugly American on November 26, 2008 at 6:33 PM

The Ugly American on November 26, 2008 at 6:33 PM

I’m sorry to hear that. It is so hard when you are so far away and a loved one is in danger. I know she must feel helpless. All you can do is offer emotional support and hope for the best.

kanda on November 26, 2008 at 6:36 PM

Two words:

Gorkhali Aayo

Christien on November 26, 2008 at 6:38 PM

How was a group that large trained and equipped well enough to carry out coordinated attacks without anyone leaking or Indian counterterror knowing about it?

…some differences between monster and victim would be useful here….

…if indeed the perps are Muslims, home-grown or imported, they live in a part of the world where being armed is far less unusual than it is in, say, the affluent ‘burbs of Chicago. They know how to resort to using their weapons…they even celebrate with ‘em, looking like nothings so much as like rednecks on New Year’s Eve (having a series of childhood flashbacks here)….

…they are in a part of the world where tribalism, and the networking of tribes, is still very much a factor….

…and, their country or host country is a democracy, which means that it open to outrage…it is not a police state (which probably is one among many things which p*sses their attackers off), and is probably a bit behind us in networking for self-protection…then again, India is a remarkably sophisticated country, evidently, its fragmented colonial history notwithstanding….

…and, finally, if you don’t have to make a civilian into a killer (tribes’ve already done that), and don’t have to arm them (ditto), and don’t have to motivate ‘em (ditto, plus a dash of Koran)…well, you just have to assemble ‘em and turn ‘em loose….

…”You over there hit point A, you guys in the green turbans hit point B, you guys by the Coke machine try to survive long enough to be videotaped making an attempt on point C, and you other guys scoop up some unfortunate third-party schnooks as hostages…think ‘telegenic’”….

…just takes a little imagination…and not a lot of humanity….

Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 6:45 PM

Few things:

There’s a billion or so people in India, so it’s somewhat easy to find targets, at the same time it’s also relativly easy to have a thousand person group that nobody knows about.

The fact that the top polic brass were specifically targeted in multiple locations points to some intelligence connection. They would have had to have been (grammar) followed in order for the terrorists to target them.

All of this could also be a response by ISI to U.S. attacks in Pakistan.

Furthermore, Mumbai has the largest criminal underworld in, well… the world. Safe to say there is plenty of opportunity for training and finding recruits.

PresidenToor on November 26, 2008 at 6:48 PM

kill them before they hit you, UN, West Europe and democratic party opinion be damned.

rob verdi on November 26, 2008 at 6:51 PM

if this keeps up, you will get a regional war.

rob verdi on November 26, 2008 at 6:52 PM

People think that Somalia is a backwater and not important to the War on Terror. I am inclined to disagree. Somalia was Osama bin Laden’s first big “victory”, when his rag-tag militias drove the mighty US military out of Mogadishu. I see no reason to assume that Al Qaeda has become less involved in Somalia over the years.

The Indians might have really PO’ed Al Qaeda off with the sinking of this pirate ship. If the terrorists came it by boat, it means one should be looking even more in that direction. India has messed with a lucrative source of income.

gridlock2 on November 26, 2008 at 6:54 PM

Every attack like this puts a nail in there own coffins. I know it is hard to see…but it is true.

tomas on November 26, 2008 at 6:56 PM

Christien on November 26, 2008 at 6:38 PM

…a splendid notion!

“Jai Mahakali, Ayo Gorkhali”, which Wikipedia translates as “Glory be to the Goddess of War, here come the Gorkhas!”

…that is the last thing you would ever want to hear…it is the central Asian version of “Give your soul to Jesus, ’cause your *ss is mine!”

…the next thing you know, you have swarms of 5ft. tall, smiling, remorseless killers all around you…like the beetles in the Mummy movies….

…they scared the Germans in their last war…and it was damned hard to scare the Wehrmacht! You could kill ‘em, but you had to go quite a bit to scare ‘em….

…India and the UK split the Gurkha regiments sort of down the middle when India was dismantled by a rather naive and ideologically crippled Labour government…the Brits now have a “brigade” (the love to pare-down their military), and the Indian Army, being wiser to the ways of the villains of the world, still has 7 regiments….

…so, turning Mr. Limbu and Mr. Gurung and all their happy relatives lose on these self-righteous thugs would be apt…let ‘em learn the lesson of martyrdom from real experts at the art of terror….

…show ‘em some kukri, boys….

Puritan1648 on November 26, 2008 at 6:57 PM

The Indians might have really PO’ed Al Qaeda off with the sinking of this pirate ship. If the terrorists came it by boat, it means one should be looking even more in that direction. India has messed with a lucrative source of income.

gridlock2 on November 26, 2008 at 6:54 PM

This operation must have been planned well in advance of the Indian naval engagement of the Somali pirates.

sharrukin on November 26, 2008 at 6:58 PM

Nice.

Nuke on nuke.

By two adolescent states.

What could possibly go wrong?

wccawa on November 26, 2008 at 7:00 PM

I will be very interested in Obama’s response to this. And I have to give it to him, I think Biden is a lying ass, but damn if he didn’t call this exactly.

muyoso on November 26, 2008

My bet is he’ll wait and see what others say first.

JellyToast on November 26, 2008 at 7:09 PM

This operation must have been planned well in advance of the Indian naval engagement of the Somali pirates.

sharrukin on November 26, 2008 at 6:58 PM

Not necessarily. None of these attacks seem to be well planned or executed. Just vicious. All it would take would be a bunch of wanna-be martyrs, some rifles and grenades and a commitment to die as part of the operation.

On the other hand, it’s still not over yet and as far as I know there have been no demands. Odd that they took hostages without a demand of some type. What are they trying to do?

I’m starting to think it might be a diversion. Siphon off the cops, military and emergency personnel before the REAL attack commences.

Guardian on November 26, 2008 at 7:12 PM

Somalia was Osama bin Laden’s first big “victory”, when his rag-tag militias drove the mighty US military out of Mogadishu.

Not it wasn’t. Osama Bin Laden and his mujhadeen fought in Afghanistan against the Russian invaders. That was their first big “victory”. They believe that they brought down the Soviet Union.

aengus on November 26, 2008 at 7:15 PM

It’s Hussein’s problem now.

He believes that he’s already taken office, so he’s to blame.

Expect more, and more devestating, attacks, on the homefront.

madmonkphotog on November 26, 2008 at 7:17 PM

lexhamfox on November 26, 2008 at 5:52 PM

I gave my reasons why. Give me your reasons why not.

progressoverpeace on November 26, 2008 at 5:59 PM

I gave you the reason. A real war between India and Pakistan which you advocate is exactly what Muslim terrorists want. AQ want to start something so Pakistan is distracted from fighting them and their allies at home. It would also distract the US and other countries from the real fight against terrorists and militants. These assholes want civilian deaths. Who do you think will emerge from a nuclear war between Pakistan and India… a viable secular middle class or tribal militants living in caves? You are reacting exactly the way terrorists want you to and playing into their hands with what you suggest. Taking the war to Arabs and Persians? You know I was just in Egypt and everyone I met was extremely hospitable and kind. I heard less anti-American crap there than I do in Mexico. Terrorists do what they do because they are small groups of radicals without popular support. I lived through two major terrorist attacks in London by the IRA. The British didn’t respond by bombing Dublin and Boston… they know it doesn’t achieve the desired result. Penetrate these groups then exterminate them. That is what is really driving the success in Iraq. They are finding out who and where these guys are and then they are killing them. India is doing the same thing and there are bound to be big set backs like today. That is why it is a long war. I know it is frustrating. Your office is bombed out and you realize that some bastards tried to f*&king kill you and maimed or killed some of your friends. But it isn’t a fight like WWII. The way to resist is not to go bomb the nearest dense population of people who worship the same God or are from the same ethnic group. You have to go after the small groups and get the people they live among to turn them over so you can exterminate them. Fortunately, experts know this.

lexhamfox on November 26, 2008 at 7:24 PM

On the other hand, it’s still not over yet and as far as I know there have been no demands. Odd that they took hostages without a demand of some type. What are they trying to do?

I’m starting to think it might be a diversion. Siphon off the cops, military and emergency personnel before the REAL attack commences.

Guardian on November 26, 2008 at 7:12 PM

Perhaps they wanted to involve Britain and United States in the brew-up and taking western hostages does that. Not really sure.

sharrukin on November 26, 2008 at 7:30 PM

I’m surprised AQ has any money for terrorism after the amount they poured into our elections and the hit the economy’s taken – what must be 10% profit losses for them.

chunderroad on November 26, 2008 at 7:33 PM

Penetrate these groups then exterminate them.

The premise that leads to war is that part of these groups is the ISI. Exterminating them will require an invasion of Pakistan. If we’re lucky they aren’t involved.

exception on November 26, 2008 at 7:33 PM

Obama has condemned the attack and wants India to join the USA to stamp out terrorism. Meanwhile the real president George W Bush has convened the National Security Council in direct response to the attack. No word so far on the outcome of that meeting. The terrorists may have unwittingly opened Obama’s eyes to the threat.

kanda on November 26, 2008 at 7:37 PM

Has Obama come out to issue this statement yet?

“I strongly condemn the outbreak of violence in Georgia India, and urge an immediate end to armed conflict,” Obama said in a written statement. “Now is the time for Georgia India and

Russia

terrorists to show restraint and to avoid an escalation to full-scale war. Georgia’s territorial integrity must be respected.”

I suspect an offer to meet with terrorist leaders without preconditions is hours away.

RightWinged on November 26, 2008 at 7:37 PM

Crap, I hit the wrong button in that last post, it should have read:

Has Obama come out to issue this statement yet?

“I strongly condemn the outbreak of violence in Georgia India, and urge an immediate end to armed conflict,” Obama said in a written statement. “Now is the time for Georgia India and Russia terrorists to show restraint and to avoid an escalation to full-scale war. Georgia’s territorial integrity must be respected.”

I suspect an offer to meet with terrorist leaders without preconditions is hours away.

RightWinged on November 26, 2008 at 7:39 PM

Pakistan officially ended the state policy of jihad over Kashmir and pissed off many of its operatives involved in teh covert war as well as a lot of militant groups which suddenly did not have financial and political backing. Look up some of the stories about the recent elections there. That is what led to the thaw in relations between India and Pakistan. There are probably ex-ISI and current ISI operatives who are working alongside militant groups but I think it highly unlikely that the main ISI or the Pakistani government is behind or supportive of this at all.

lexhamfox on November 26, 2008 at 7:39 PM

ah crap, I missed a third “Georgia” in there too, but you get the point, right?

RightWinged on November 26, 2008 at 7:40 PM

Obama will strongly condemn the terrorist attacks and regret the loss of life…yada, yada, yada.

Afterwards he will render every assistance short of actual help.

sharrukin on November 26, 2008 at 7:40 PM

Obama slams India attacks, vows to root out terror groups
Posted: 27 November 2008 0650 hrs

Photos 1 of 1

Barack Obama

Related News

• Islamist group claims responsibility for Mumbai attacks

• US, Britain, EU condemn Mumbai attacks

• Nearly 80 killed in Mumbai terror attacks

Fron Channel news Asia

CHICAGO: President-elect Barack Obama on Wednesday condemned the Mumbai attacks and said the United States must work to strengthen ties with India and other nations to “root out and destroy terrorist networks”.

“These coordinated attacks on innocent civilians demonstrate the grave and urgent threat of terrorism,” Obama’s chief national security spokesperson, Brooke Anderson, said in a statement.

“The United States must continue to strengthen our partnerships with India and nations around the world to root out and destroy terrorist networks.”

The statement added: “President-elect Obama strongly condemns today’s terrorist attacks in Mumbai, and his thoughts and prayers are with the victims, their families, and the people of India.”

kanda on November 26, 2008 at 7:40 PM

11 policemen are dead. 18 injured.

Guardian on November 26, 2008 at 7:44 PM

I hate to continue with the negativity, but how else are we to feel. I am sorry to say but this is just the beginning. I cannot wait to hear how the MSM puts a spin on how the “unflappable” will handle the situation when he takes office. I am sure Obuma will wait for President Bush to comment first.

LatinRed on November 26, 2008 at 7:45 PM

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