I can’t tell you how proud I am.

hoosiermama on November 26, 2008 at 9:01 PM

is it too late to give one to obama’s mama?
or better yet, maybe we should give one to his daughters to make sure they are not “punished” by a baby
what a bunch of focktards
another indiana resident here…

Isn’t that right Gov. Pawlenty? Gov. Crist? How about you Mr. Romney?

Planned Premeditated Parenthood Murder seems to have forgotten that Christmas is all about a teen single mother (in a culture that routinely executed single mothers) choosing life.

jgapinoy on November 26, 2008 at 8:03 PM

That’s what I like about you jgapinoy. You have a knack for cutting right to the heart of the matter.

My collie says:

I think he’s better at the irony than you are at the sarcasm, CC.

Each of us must be content to use the gifts that God has given to us.

What you are describing in the first part of your statement is predestination, which is something not all Christians believe.

unclesmrgol on November 26, 2008 at 7:20 PM

Not from my perspective. I come from the Wesleyan tradition (i.e. I am NOT a Calvinist). Although I’ll admit that John Calvin got a lot of his ideas from Augustine, I am not in the pre-destination camp. (Talk to ColtsFan if you want to discuss that point of view — he not only subscribes to it, but he is more well read than I am.) The philosophical debate regarding Free Will vs. Determinism predates the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ. The ancient Greeks argued about it. For me, the matter was settled once and for all, not by theologians or philosophers, but by physicists in the 1920′s. The underlying fabric of the universe is probabilistic, not deterministic.

What I WILL argue is that time is not what we humans think that it is. Einstein proved this with his special theory of relativity. Time progresses at different rates in difference reference frames — simultaneously, depending on your location in the universe. Furthermore, Einstein’s general theory of relatively showed that time progresses at a slower rate in the vicinity of large gravitational bodies. Ask yourself “Which one of these reference frames for time is God’s reference frame?” It seems to me that the only answer that makes any sense is “all of them”. To me, this is proof that Augustine was correct. God is outside of time.

CyberCipher on November 26, 2008 at 6:05 PM

What you are describing in the first part of your statement is predestination, which is something not all Christians believe.

Are you saying that God is omniscient? Huh. So how does God’s omniscience prove your point?

Pretty weak, dood.

Akzed on November 26, 2008 at 3:52 PM

Jews and Christians have believed since the time of Moses (and perhaps even before that) that God is not limited by time in the same way that humans are. Augustine probably stated it most succinctly when he said that God is “outside of time.” God knows our past, present, and future before we are even born, because He exists in the past, present, and future simultaneously. Past, present, and future are all the same to Him, and He moves from one to the other, and back, as easily as we take a trip to the grocery store.

Furthermore, God has an intended life-plan for each and every human that He creates even before conception occurs. These plans are one portion/facet of the will of God. Evil is in open rebellion and at war with the will of God. Evil frequently uses the free will of Man to thwart God’s plans. God permits this because He knows that without Man’s free will, the love that He has for His people, and the love that His People have for Him, would not be genuine, but contrived. God values this love above all else — it is a part of His very nature. (God would have no use for “love” that has been coerced from those whom He has created.) Thus, the evil continues to dwell among us, and it inflicts incalculable damage upon us. We pay a price for our disobedience (acts of free will) as evidenced by the suffering, misery, and death that is all around us.

For each one of us, the future is filled with innumerable possible outcomes. The fulfillment of any of those infinite and possible outcomes depends upon the choices that each of us make in our lives — by exercising our individual free wills. Some people choose to murder their own offspring before it is born, thereby prematurely terminating ALL of those possible outcomes for the individuals that God “knew” while they were yet in the womb. To God, these “virtual” lifetimes lived by aborted fetuses that “never were” are no less “real” than the historical choices or events that have occurred in your lifetime or in my lifetime. They are choices/events that “never were” but could have been — had the life of the individual not been terminated prematurely.

People that abort their own children are essentially saying to God that the value of their own selfish desires somehow trumps God’s will/plans, and they are “dissing” the value that God places on that individual that “never was”. I, for one, would not want to try to tell God what to do or plan, or try to tell Him what He should value and what He shouldn’t.

My collie says:

If you want to call that a “weak” argument, go ahead — but you should be warned that if you support ” the right to abortion”, you are complicit in the crime. Don’t believe it? Then you do not understand the nature of God. Read Ezekiel chapter 3.

>>5 minutes later, outside the womb = baby. We must protect the children!

———-

Holding those two ideas in your head at the same time is insane. I don’t agree, but I can at least understand the person that doesn’t call it a child until it has some kind of discernible features or brain activity. But the hard line pro choice stance above? Crazy, stupid, or flat out evil.

This sickness in these people will never end.

Pretty sad when we treat dogs better than people.

dpierson on November 26, 2008 at 4:02 PM

Well, yes and no. The pound will kill him if no one else wants him. That’s never the case with unwanted children (outside the womb).

And instead of paying for expensive medical treatments we generally just have our pets killed.

There are many reasons women find themselves pregnant with a child they don’t want, and not all of them have to do with immorality.
Esthier on November 26, 2008 at 2:57 PM

Funny, I have a dog I no longer want, but it’s against the law to kill him. Got to bring him to the pound instead so someone who wants him can adopt.
Pretty sad when we treat dogs better than people.

So what percentage of black abortions involve married women? Since 70% of their live births do not involve married women, what would you say is the percentage of abortions procured by blacks that involve married women?

Akzed on November 26, 2008 at 3:56 PM

Actually, I’d say that I don’t give a damn about discussing whether or not blacks are immoral. You’re discussing them as though they’re a group to study. It’s pointless and completely irrelevant to my comment.

There are many reasons women find themselves pregnant with a child they don’t want, and not all of them have to do with immorality.
Esthier on November 26, 2008 at 2:57 PM

So what percentage of black abortions involve married women? Since 70% of their live births do not involve married women, what would you say is the percentage of abortions procured by blacks that involve married women?