Good news: Planned Parenthood of Indiana now offering gift certificates

posted at 1:21 pm on November 26, 2008 by Allahpundit

A little dose of holiday spirit on Thanksgiving eve. And yes, it’s for real.

This year, give the gift of convenience.

“People are making really tough decisions about putting gas in their car and food on their table, so we know that many women especially put healthcare at the bottom of their list to do,” said Chrystal Struben-Hall, Vice President of Planned Parenthood of Indiana…

“They can be seen for sexually transmitted disease screenings, HIV tests and general prostate exams and those kinds of things,” said Struben-Hall.

Some Hoosiers 24-Hour News 8 talked to asked if the gift certificates could be used towards abortions. The answer is yes. But, Planned Parenthood said that’s not the purpose of the gift certificates…

Indiana Family Institute President Curt Smith said he is appalled by the certificates.

“I think the way to help family planning is to give the money where there’s no agenda. So if somebody wants to help a woman at a time of crisis, they can support the life centers throughout Indiana,” said Smith.

Think of it not so much as a gift certificate than as a receipt, in case Santa left something under your tree that you’d like to “return.” Exit question: What kind of relationship would you have to have with someone for a gift certificate from Planned Parenthood to be appropriate? If you’re buying for your significant other, cash works just as well. If you’re buying for friends, um … what’s the message there? “Merry Christmas, buddy. The next prostate exam’s on me.”

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You are however free to try. I can advise you against the consequences and that’s not the imaginary fiery torture dungeon underground.

lester on April 26, 2013 at 5:43 PM

So you are ok with it if I come over and snip your neck?

davidk on April 26, 2013 at 5:47 PM

thats why china is doing well by limiting population growth…or else they would be phucked

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:46 PM

Really? What proof do you have?

CW on April 26, 2013 at 5:47 PM

and what if a rapist holds the woman captive for a week after the rape occurs? what will you do then?

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:42 PM

I would expect a tough-guy liberal like YOU to rush in and rescue her beforehand.

Oh, wait! You want guns banned.

I guess you liberals just made us both stuck, now didn’t you?

Liam on April 26, 2013 at 5:48 PM

It took almost 100 years to get rid of Jim Crow; I’m sure the fight to end legal, subsidized baby murder will take just as long.

Write me a postcard from the wrong side of history, won’t ya? :)

Good Solid B-Plus on April 26, 2013 at 5:38 PM

Jim Crow was enacted then gotten rid of.

Abortions were made illegal and it took a lot more than a century to get rid of the bans.

You should follow the arrow of time instead of walking it freely only in the direction you prefer.

lester on April 26, 2013 at 5:48 PM

also, a large portion of abortions are done by poor minorities

these babies if born would likely be on welfare

so abortion is actually economically beneficial as it reduces the welfare society in a sense

also, given the state of unemployment, our country can’t afford to have more and more people

thats why china is doing well by limiting population growth…or else they would be phucked

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:46 PM

Please report to the nearest late-term abortion center. Humanity, the gene pool, and the economy thank you in advance.

Midas on April 26, 2013 at 5:48 PM

The fact that you hide behind tumors and skin tags is telling.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 26, 2013 at 5:46 PM

Don’t be to hard on lester…he has to look at a tiny skin tag everytime he pees.

HumpBot Salvation on April 26, 2013 at 5:49 PM

also, a large portion of abortions are done by poor minorities

these babies if born would likely be on welfare

so abortion is actually economically beneficial as it reduces the welfare society in a sense

also, given the state of unemployment, our country can’t afford to have more and more people

thats why china is doing well by limiting population growth…or else they would be phucked

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:46 PM

I thought it was the pregnant female who determined at a point allowed by Congress during her 9 month pregnancy that the pregnancy was unwanted.

Now I am confused as to your position. Is it about the right of the pregnant woman deciding to end her pregnancy during a specified period allowed by Congress (who are elected by us), or is it about the cost to society?

weaselyone on April 26, 2013 at 5:50 PM

a collection of cells
lester on April 26, 2013 at 5:39 PM

Words used to prey on the uneducated of society….

never enough black and hispanic babies for you and Miss Sanger.

No wonder PP was first built , not in Manhatten, but in the Bronx.

CW on April 26, 2013 at 5:50 PM

I would expect a tough-guy liberal like YOU to rush in and rescue her beforehand.

Oh, wait! You want guns banned.

I guess you liberals just made us both stuck, now didn’t you?

Liam on April 26, 2013 at 5:48 PM

liam, you keep sidestepping the question…must make you uncomfortalbe huh?

what will you do to the women who is raped and held captive for a week?!

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:51 PM

I’m fine with women having the choice. Why the hell would I want to watch an abortion or any operating procedure?!!

lester on April 26, 2013 at 2:54 PM

Out of sight, out of mind, eh? Perhaps, like the ‘nice’ Germans, who claimed the Jews were in ‘work camps’ even though their villages were routinely covered in ash and the stench of burning flesh was undeniable, you should be made to witness an abortion or, at least, count the ‘foetal parts’ to insure that a woman has been thoroughly cleansed so she doesn’t die from an infection.

“You have to become a bit schizophrenic. In one room, you encourage the patient that the slight irregularity in the fetal heart is not important, that she is going to have a fine, healthy baby. Then, in the next room you assure another woman, on whom you just did a saline abortion, that it is a good thing that the heartbeat is already irregular….she has nothing to worry about, she will NOT have a live baby…All of a sudden one noticed that at the time of the saline infusion there was a lot of activity in the uterus. That’s not fluid currents. That’s obviously the fetus being distressed by swallowing the concentrated salt solution and kicking violently and that’s to all intents and purposes, the death trauma. ..somebody has to do it, and unfortunately we are the executioners in this instance…”

- Abortionist Dr. Szenes

“There is no difference between a first trimester, a second trimester, a third trimester abortion or infanticide. It’s all the same human being in different stages of development. I finally got to the point I couldn’t look at those little bodies anymore.”

- Dr. Arnold Halpern, former director of a Planned Parenthood abortion clinic

“… As you get into the second trimester, if we remove the pregnancy using forceps, and if a heartbeat is the measure of being alive, that happens all the time.”

- Dr. Dennis Christensen, Madison Abortion Clinic, Wisconsin. From The New York Times; May 15, 1998; page A14

‘I hated putting babies in strainers and rinsing them off and putting them in zip-lock bags.’

- former abortion clinic owner Eric Harrah

Even if you are pro-choice, no one likes to see a dead fetus.”

-Vilma Valdez, Education Director Planned Parenthood of Greater Miami, The Miami Herald, Oct 24 1992

“Abortions are very draining, exhausting, heart-rending. There are a lot of tears. Some patients turn on you…I do them because I take the attitude that women who are going to terminate babies deserve the same kind of treatment as women who carry babies…I’ve done a couple thousand, and its been a significant financial boon…the only way I can do an abortion is to consider only the woman as my patient and block out the baby.”

–abortionist quoted in M.D. Doctors Talk About Themselves

“It [the fetus] is a form of life…This has to be killing…The question then becomes “is this kind of killing justifiable? In my own mind, it is justifiable, but only with the informed consent of the mother”

- Abortionist quoted in “Democrat and Chronicle” 7/5/92

Resist We Much on April 26, 2013 at 5:52 PM

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:39 PM

Really!!! Ok, here we go, first off, my mothers family has been here since the 1700s, and the patriarch fought under General Washington. At no time did they ever owned slaves even though they are from a slave state(Delaware). They just had lost of children to help work the farm. Oh btw, did I mention about Federal troops being stationed on that land without any type of recompense. Remember no slaves, yet they were treated like criminals all the same. Maybe because they were Scot/Irish immigrants which to the North weren’t human. Yeah bring that again there NP, this is a road I thing you may want not to revisit.

MarshFox on April 26, 2013 at 5:52 PM

and what if a rapist holds the woman captive for a week after the rape occurs? what will you do then?

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:42 PM

What if the world were rid of rapists?

weaselyone on April 26, 2013 at 5:52 PM

and what if a rapist holds the woman captive for a week after the rape occurs? what will you do then?

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:42 PM

If you have to go there with an argument-you know you’re whacked.

Say -tell me how many times that has happened?

CW on April 26, 2013 at 5:52 PM

So you are ok with it if I come over and snip your neck?

davidk on April 26, 2013 at 5:47 PM

No and I will call the cops on you. You’d be lucky if they get you before the dogs.

lester on April 26, 2013 at 5:52 PM

Now I am confused as to your position. Is it about the right of the pregnant woman deciding to end her pregnancy during a specified period allowed by Congress (who are elected by us), or is it about the cost to society?

weaselyone on April 26, 2013 at 5:50 PM

abortion is the right of the woman

but I am saying there is a societal benefit to aborting unwanted pregnancies as opposed to having more unwanted babies sucking up welfare and entitlements from taxpayers

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:53 PM

The fact that you hide behind tumors and skin tags is telling.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 26, 2013 at 5:46 PM

Don’t be to hard on lester…he has to look at a tiny skin tag everytime he pees.

HumpBot Salvation on April 26, 2013 at 5:49 PM

That’s funny right there.

davidk on April 26, 2013 at 5:53 PM

what will you do to the women who is raped and held captive for a week?!

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:51 PM

Missy you’re points are just jokes.

Now, where is that proof about China?

CW on April 26, 2013 at 5:53 PM

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:51 PM

It’s a bad question.

22044 on April 26, 2013 at 5:53 PM

a collection of cells

lester on April 26, 2013 at 5:39 PM

Two women are in a car in Florida. Both are 5 months pregnant. The driver, who plans to keep her baby, is driving her friend to an abortion clinic to have an abortion. A drunk Alan Grayson runs a red light and hits the car in which both women are riding. Both women survive. Both foetuses are aborted naturally.

Fla. Stat. Ann. § 316.193 defines DUI manslaughter to include the death of an unborn quick child.

Should Alan Grayson be charged with one or two counts of DUI manslaughter?

Remember, one woman was on her way to kill her ‘collection of cells.’

Resist We Much on April 26, 2013 at 5:54 PM

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:42 PM

One of the biggest problem good people have with liberals like you is that you have no concept at all with reality. Reality is your biggest enemy.

Liam on April 26, 2013 at 5:54 PM

What if the world were rid of rapists?

weaselyone on April 26, 2013 at 5:52 PM

we dont live in fantasy land

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:54 PM

You should follow the arrow of time instead of walking it freely only in the direction you prefer.

lester on April 26, 2013 at 5:48 PM

Except that Jim Crow was an explicit creation of the state; it was government-led marginalization and persecution of a specific class of people for malicious, racist reasons.

Abortion would be illegal simply by natural law and the protection of life, liberty and property that exists inherently in all human systems. Only government can arbitrarily step in and say some lives are worth less than others, be they blacks, Jews or “inviable” fetuses.

You rail against the first two and champion the third; I am disgusted by all three.

Like I said, welcome to the wrong side of history. Get used to your surroundings, because by the sound of it, you’re going to be there for an awfully long time.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 26, 2013 at 5:54 PM

but I am saying there is a societal benefit to aborting unwanted pregnancies as opposed to having more unwanted babies sucking up welfare and entitlements from taxpayers

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:53 PM

Sounds like a good reason to kill em after birth too.

CW on April 26, 2013 at 5:54 PM

as opposed to having more unwanted babies sucking up welfare and entitlements from taxpayers

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:53 PM

CONTENT WARNING. Do not read this if you are easily offended. Seriously.

Hey thujackass nonpee, you worthless piece of road kill.

You said that an unwanted baby is no different than an unwanted puppy. You are right–if you’re an atheist. If God doesn’t exist, then humans are just animals. On the same ontological level. We just evolved. A cosmic accident. No concrete standard of right or wrong.

The logical conclusion that if —–but is it right or wrong to be logical?

An evolutionary accident.

So then, I assume you support Obama’s death panels. Who needs non-productive old people sucking scarce resources.

Speaking of sucking up scarce resources; let’s kill all the handicapped people. Who wants those societal drains. Seniors, too.

Then we can kill anyone who is on welfare. But let’s not waste valuable resources killing them. Just herd them into some blighted area of town and let them starve.

Do you see any degree of difference between killing unwanted animals and killing for food? Is killing for food better than killing for unwantedness? Better? Right or wrong? Who is to say? Sounds like a moral decision.

You eat hamburgers? Now there’s an unwanted animal. Well, except as dead and butchered and exposed to the proper amount of heat and seasonings.

How about we butcher all those people we don’t want and eat them. That way they wouldn’t be so . . . unwanted.

Has anyone calculated the protein content of human meat?

Of course we could put them in feedlots. We already have Ghettos.

We call cow meat beef; pig meat pork. What do we call people meat.

And unwanted babies. Just toss them over into the corner. They will eventually become too weak to scream and cry. They will quickly, and painfully, dehydrate and die.

Or should we give them a shot of something to hasten their demise. We would do the same for an unwanted puppy. You don’t like the way animals are treated at the slaughterhouse. Let’s be consistent.

Of course, to be logically and humanely consistent, we should anesthetize babies in the womb before we rip them apart. Don’t want to cause them any pain. But so what if we cause them pain. No need to introduce morality at this point.

There is no God. No Absolute Authority. To whose morality should we subscribe.

How about your moral standard, thuja, molester, armandhammmer–any of you who claim superior knowledge? Any of you who have an evolutionary superior intellect. Thuja, God of the Universe. Absolute Standard of Morality.

Any of you smart enough to tell the whole world how to live? You seem to think you are. You get on the World Wide Web and tell everybody the way things should be.

“[T]he way things should be” That darned morality thing just keeps popping up.

davidk on April 26, 2013 at 5:56 PM

we dont live in fantasy land

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:54 PM

The irony.

CW on April 26, 2013 at 5:56 PM

One day when they find that gay gene…. it will be interesting.

CW on April 26, 2013 at 5:57 PM

and what if a rapist holds the woman captive for a week after the rape occurs? what will you do then?

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:42 PM

What if aliens abducted you and implanted an alien fetus in your rectum and returned you in the desert and it took you 3 weeks to find civilization and get medical attention but the hospital was run by Michelle Obama and they dumped you because your Obamacare didn’t pay good enough and when they finally checked you out down in the free clinic the alien fetus had become impacted in your butt and was living off your body and the only way they could abort it was to remove your bowels and hook you up with a poop sack, but if you left it there the baby would come out painlessly and end up being the cutest human baby ever.

What will you do then?

Spliff Menendez on April 26, 2013 at 5:58 PM

what will you do to the women who is raped and held captive for a week?!

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:51 PM

What will actually happen later, after you liberals get involved, is to let the criminal off the hook.

Free Mumia!

Liam on April 26, 2013 at 5:58 PM

Remember, one woman was on her way to kill her ‘collection of cells.’

Resist We Much on April 26, 2013 at 5:54 PM

Not by the drunk. Case closed.

If it were up to me though, I would make it dependent on whether the woman charges for murder or not.

lester on April 26, 2013 at 5:59 PM

No and I will call the cops on you. You’d be lucky if they get you before the dogs.

lester on April 26, 2013 at 5:52 PM

Hey. Don’t push your “religious parental motives” on me.

And you or your dogs don’t scare me! “I’ll get you my little pretty and your little doggie too!”

davidk on April 26, 2013 at 5:59 PM

thats why china is doing well by limiting population growth…or else they would be phucked

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:46 PM

Just an unbelievable STUPID comment..:(:(

Dire Straits on April 26, 2013 at 6:00 PM

thats why china is doing well by limiting population growth…or else they would be phucked

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:46 PM

So your proof or are you just babbling?

CW on April 26, 2013 at 6:00 PM

One day when they find that gay gene…. it will be interesting.

CW on April 26, 2013 at 5:57 PM

They’ve discovered that diarrhea is hereditary: it runs in your genes.

davidk on April 26, 2013 at 6:01 PM

abortion is the right of the woman

but I am saying there is a societal benefit to aborting unwanted pregnancies as opposed to having more unwanted babies sucking up welfare and entitlements from taxpayers

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:53 PM

As agreed to by you, the period of time a woman has that right to determine if the pregnancy is unwanted is determined by Congress as elected by people like you and I.

Congress determines at what point her rights end, they just can’t determine that those rights end at conception.

Society doesn’t decide that the baby is unwanted, you already stated that it was the pregnant woman who decided whether it was wanted or not. Yet, society decides through Congress the timeframe in which she can make that decision. Yet, you say it is HER choice, but with limits placed on her by a society that supposedly benefits from said choice.

Is it truly her choice or is it society’s choice?

weaselyone on April 26, 2013 at 6:02 PM

“I’ll get you my little pretty and your little doggie too!”

davidk on April 26, 2013 at 5:59 PM

Hat tip on the Wizard of Oz reference..:)

Dire Straits on April 26, 2013 at 6:02 PM

They’ve discovered that diarrhea is hereditary: it runs in your genes.

davidk on April 26, 2013 at 6:01 PM

What does that even mean? Calm down.

CW on April 26, 2013 at 6:03 PM

Like I said, welcome to the wrong side of history. Get used to your surroundings, because by the sound of it, you’re going to be there for an awfully long time.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 26, 2013 at 5:54 PM

Right. The only thing that will change about abortion is it will become safer and more easily accessible.

lester on April 26, 2013 at 6:03 PM

Spliff Menendez on April 26, 2013 at 5:58 PM

Exactly: And then … .

When I saw your nom I thought of Spaceman Spiff.

davidk on April 26, 2013 at 6:04 PM

but I am saying there is a societal benefit to aborting unwanted pregnancies as opposed to having more unwanted babies sucking up welfare and entitlements from taxpayers

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:53 PM

THAT is the most horrible low to which anyone can go.

Liam on April 26, 2013 at 6:04 PM

They’ve discovered that diarrhea is hereditary: it runs in your genes.

davidk on April 26, 2013 at 6:01 PM

What does that even mean? Calm down.

CW on April 26, 2013 at 6:03 PM

Just a joke. Sorry your didn’t get it. Calm down.

davidk on April 26, 2013 at 6:05 PM

The only thing that will change about abortion is it will become safer and more easily accessible.

lester on April 26, 2013 at 6:03 PM

really? Ask your buddies in the kill babies movement. It is becoming less accessible.

CW on April 26, 2013 at 6:05 PM

and what if a rapist holds the woman captive for a week after the rape occurs? what will you do then?

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:42 PM

What if the woman changes her mind after having the abortion? What will she do then?

weaselyone on April 26, 2013 at 6:06 PM

I answered, then I pasted my answer in last page. You will keep asking a million times. You don’t like the answer so you keep ignoring it.

lester on April 26, 2013 at 5:12 PM

Nope. You gave me a half-arsed definition and then a strawman.

The question was: Why did you choose to use the particular words of “actual human”?

That’s it. I don’t need a definition. I am asking why YOU chose those words. There’s a difference, but you know that.

So… you aren’t going to answer why YOU chose those two words.

Fair enough.

kim roy on April 26, 2013 at 6:06 PM

davidk on April 26, 2013 at 6:05 PM

I love the gay rights folks who love abortion. They don’t think their liberal buddies won’t kill gay unborn kids. The naivete is something.

CW on April 26, 2013 at 6:07 PM

People also object to war which is a significantly larger expense and more importantly results in death of actual humans and affects many generations.

lester, it’s time for your violin lesson! on April 26, 2013 at 2:47 PM

The word ‘war’ is found 4 times in the United States Constitution.

The word ‘abortion’? 0

The words ‘health care’? 0

The words ‘women’s health’? 0

The words ‘reproductive health’? 0

The words ‘Planned Parenthood’? 0

The word ‘privacy’? 0

Resist We Much on April 26, 2013 at 6:07 PM

Two-word summary of the Democratic National Committee Platform for 2016:

“More Abortions!”

The Democrats of 2013 or like the Democrats of 1853. They’ve hitched their wagon to the death horse of abortion and are prepared to ride it to the very end. Why?

Because that’s where their voters are. They can no more back away from abortion at this point than their 1853 counterparts could back away from slavery. To do so would destroy their coalition. They can’t win if they don’t suckle at the abortionist teat. It’s a sign of a deep moral sickness and political depravity but for them to back away even a bit – to merely tip their hat in acknowledgement of Gosnell’s horror – would elicit a fright backlash from the abortion profiteers who who are their indispensable political paymasters.

Robert_Paulson on April 26, 2013 at 6:07 PM

also, a large portion of abortions are done by poor minorities

So you have no problem with racial genocide

these babies if born would likely be on welfare

so abortion is actually economically beneficial as it reduces the welfare society in a sense

Wow, how impressive, you must be a small government liberal

also, given the state of unemployment, our country can’t afford to have more and more people

Maybe if we close the border to illegals, we can afford to abort a few less American babies

thats why china is doing well by limiting population growth…or else they would be phucked

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:46 PM

The only phucked one here is you and your twisted liberal logic.

glcinpdx on April 26, 2013 at 6:08 PM

“actual human”?

Semantics are the tools of the pro baby killers.

They love that term “fetus”. It detaches them from the humanity of the unborn.

CW on April 26, 2013 at 6:08 PM

One day when they find that gay gene…. it will be interesting.

CW on April 26, 2013 at 5:57 PM

Yep; liberal elites aborting their gay babies. It’s coming.

slickwillie2001 on April 26, 2013 at 6:09 PM

What if aliens abducted you and implanted an alien fetus in your rectum and returned you in the desert and it took you 3 weeks to find civilization and get medical attention but the hospital was run by Michelle Obama and they dumped you because your Obamacare didn’t pay good enough and when they finally checked you out down in the free clinic the alien fetus had become impacted in your butt and was living off your body and the only way they could abort it was to remove your bowels and hook you up with a poop sack, but if you left it there the baby would come out painlessly and end up being the cutest human baby ever.

What will you do then?

Spliff Menendez on April 26, 2013 at 5:58 PM

Blame someone else and whine to the government to fix it like all good liberals do?

Very nicely done, sir.

kim roy on April 26, 2013 at 6:09 PM

but I am saying there is a societal benefit to aborting unwanted pregnancies as opposed to having more unwanted babies sucking up welfare and entitlements from taxpayers

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:53 PM

YOU are a liberal of the worst kind, now the poster-boy of all the trolls.

Liam on April 26, 2013 at 6:10 PM

Abortion would be illegal simply by natural law and the protection of life, liberty and property that exists inherently in all human systems. Only government can arbitrarily step in and say some lives are worth less than others, be they blacks, Jews or “inviable” fetuses.

“Natural law” as dictated by who? The Catholic Church? Because throughout most of recorded history, most “human systems” have allowed abortion in some form. The pro-life position is ahistorical. It’s an anomaly. “Fetal life” has never been held on par with born members of society. Even in the United States, prior to Roe v. Wade, few if any states prosecuted abortion as murder. The pro-life movement is nothing more than a political proxy for the Vatican; useful idiots.

Armin Tamzarian on April 26, 2013 at 6:10 PM

thats why china is doing well by limiting population growth…or else they would be phucked

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:46 PM

So much for you arguing that you are pro-choice…
It is interesting when liberals revert back to their true motives.
You are pro-abortion. Period. You have no belief in a woman’s right to choose if you support the supposed societal benefits derived from China’s one-child policy.

weaselyone on April 26, 2013 at 6:10 PM

“actual human”?

Semantics are the tools of the pro baby killers.

They love that term “fetus”. It detaches them from the humanity of the unborn.

CW on April 26, 2013 at 6:08 PM

Or “clump of cells”. All dehumanizing. That’s why they refuse to use the word “baby” and would prefer “viable fetus”.

That’s why I’ve been asking him and he knows it. The choice of words and why he picked them only shows his sociopathic nature.

Keep talking lester. It’s good when you reveal yourself.

kim roy on April 26, 2013 at 6:12 PM

Probably because he doesn’t want to say a good word about the free market system.

Armin Tamzarian on April 26, 2013 at 3:12 PM

The free market system or any other system of sale or trade doesn’t apply to human life unless you approve of things like slavery.

I understand that you claim to be a libertarian, as am I. Well, luv, I know of no libertarian that believes that the free market system should apply to humans. In fact, the root of libertarian is liberty. Slavery, human trafficking, etc, is diametrically opposed to liberty.

Resist We Much on April 26, 2013 at 6:12 PM

also, a large portion of abortions are done by poor minorities

these babies if born would likely be on welfare

so abortion is actually economically beneficial as it reduces the welfare society in a sense

also, given the state of unemployment, our country can’t afford to have more and more people

thats why china is doing well by limiting population growth…or else they would be phucked

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:46 PM

You seem to have confused “economically beneficial” with “morally justifiable”.

If you believe that economic benefit can justify killing a class of human beings, then a lot of really nasty conclusions necessarily follow.

For instance, the same argument could be made with regard to older people, handicapped people, and people with severe illnesses that are expensive to treat.

Basically, by your logic, if at any point in time a person’s future contribution to society is judged less than their future burden on society, it would be best to kill them.

Now if you really had wanted to make a convincing argument, you would have pointed out that abortion is basically reducing the growth in number of future democratic voters.

rightmind on April 26, 2013 at 6:12 PM

Armin Tamzarian on April 26, 2013 at 6:10 PM

Best not to comment here…rather than keep showing us that you’re Lord of the Idiots, Costanza.

22044 on April 26, 2013 at 6:12 PM

davidk on April 26, 2013 at 6:05 PM

I love the gay rights folks who love abortion. They don’t think their liberal buddies won’t kill gay unborn kids. The naivete is something.

CW on April 26, 2013 at 6:07 PM

Exactly.

The h0m0sexual lifestyle, by definition, produces no offspring, so does not further the evolutionary process.

And the male h0m0sexual lifestyle is chock full of stuff that is evolutionarily undesirable.

The logical conclusion is too find that gene and abort those babies.

davidk on April 26, 2013 at 6:13 PM

Resist We Much on April 26, 2013 at 6:12 PM

Heh. He’s no libertarian!

22044 on April 26, 2013 at 6:14 PM

Same constitution that protects right to privacy also protects right to free speech and right to own guns.

lester, it’s time for your violin lesson! on April 26, 2013 at 3:19 PM

Corrected.

Del Dolemonte on April 26, 2013 at 6:14 PM

Armin Tamzarian on April 26, 2013 at 6:10 PM

Screw all concepts of ‘natural law’.

Let’s get to YOU. At what point will YOU say, “Enough!”

Liam on April 26, 2013 at 6:15 PM

Armin…again you prove: Your ability to discuss more than one topic is very limited.

CW on April 26, 2013 at 6:15 PM

So you are ok with it if I come over and snip your neck?
davidk on April 26, 2013 at 5:47 PM

No and I will call the cops on you. You’d be lucky if they get you before the dogs.
lester on April 26, 2013 at 5:52 PM

It took a while for the truth to come out but here it is in all its glory.

Those for abortion have no qualms about others being aborted, as long as abortion can’t be done to them.

rukiddingme on April 26, 2013 at 6:16 PM

The conservative position on reproductive rights is to keep the government OUT of personal family planning decisions.

chumpThreads on April 26, 2013 at 3:20 PM

That was also the position of Planned Parenthood’s founder chumpster.

F-

Del Dolemonte on April 26, 2013 at 6:17 PM

‘”Civil rights’ doesn’t mean anything without a right to life!” declared Hunter. He and the other marchers were protesting the disproportionately high number of abortions in the black community. The high number is no accident. Many Americans–black and white–are unaware of Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger’s Negro Project. Sanger created this program in 1939, after the organization changed its name from the American Birth Control League (ABCL) to the Birth Control Federation of America (BCFA).

The aim of the program was to restrict–many believe exterminate–the black population. Under the pretense of “better health” and “family planning,” Sanger cleverly implemented her plan. What’s more shocking is Sanger’s beguilement of black America’s créme de la créme–those prominent, well educated and well-to-do–into executing her scheme. Some within the black elite saw birth control as a means to attain economic empowerment, elevate the race and garner the respect of whites.

The Negro Project has had lasting repercussions in the black community: “We have become victims of genocide by our own hands,” cried Hunter at the “Say So” march. [Emphasis added]

http://www.blackgenocide.org/negro.html

davidk on April 26, 2013 at 6:17 PM

but I am saying there is a societal benefit to aborting unwanted pregnancies as opposed to having more unwanted babies sucking up welfare and entitlements from taxpayers

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:53 PM

I’m saying there is a greater societal benefit to placing unwanted children up for adoption to families not sucking up welfare and entitlements as opposed to abortion.

rukiddingme on April 26, 2013 at 6:19 PM

will you put your money where your mouth is and volunteer to adopt these babies?

are you going to compensate the women for the 9 months of stress and pain of pregnancy and labor

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:23 PM

1. There are plenty of people who would love to adopt. So that ends that meme.

2. Nobody made these women lay down and get pregnant in the first place, so screw the need for compensation (libs are always seeking reparations of some sort) and spare me how abortion = compassion.

Bitter Clinger on April 26, 2013 at 6:20 PM

lester on April 26, 2013 at 5:52 PM

Failed arguments, thy name is lester!

22044 on April 26, 2013 at 6:20 PM

‘”Civil rights’ doesn’t mean anything without a right to life!” declared Hunter. He and the other marchers were protesting the disproportionately high number of abortions in the black community. The high number is no accident. Many Americans–black and white–are unaware of Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger’s Negr0 Project. Sanger created this program in 1939, after the organization changed its name from the American Birth Control League (ABCL) to the Birth Control Federation of America (BCFA).

The aim of the program was to restrict–many believe exterminate–the black population. Under the pretense of “better health” and “family planning,” Sanger cleverly implemented her plan. What’s more shocking is Sanger’s beguilement of black America’s créme de la créme–those prominent, well educated and well-to-do–into executing her scheme. Some within the black elite saw birth control as a means to attain economic empowerment, elevate the race and garner the respect of whites.

The Negr0 Project has had lasting repercussions in the black community: “We have become victims of genocide by our own hands,” cried Hunter at the “Say So” march. [Emphasis added. Edited to get past the censor.]

http://www.blackgenocide.org/negr0.html

davidk on April 26, 2013 at 6:21 PM

The free market system or any other system of sale or trade doesn’t apply to human life unless you approve of things like slavery.

I understand that you claim to be a libertarian, as am I. Well, luv, I know of no libertarian that believes that the free market system should apply to humans. In fact, the root of libertarian is liberty. Slavery, human trafficking, etc, is diametrically opposed to liberty.

Resist We Much on April 26, 2013 at 6:12 PM

And I know of no libertarian who believes that a fetus should be treated as his equal.

Screw all concepts of ‘natural law’.

Let’s get to YOU. At what point will YOU say, “Enough!”

Liam on April 26, 2013 at 6:15 PM

Here’s where I draw the line: the government shouldn’t involve itself in pregnancy. Simple enough for you?

Armin…again you prove: Your ability to discuss more than one topic is very limited.

CW on April 26, 2013 at 6:15 PM

I know, I know. I was going to quote an earlier post of yours and point out the irony of a guy ranting about the “uneducated” while misspelling “Manhattan”, but I just couldn’t be bothered.

Armin Tamzarian on April 26, 2013 at 6:22 PM

but I am saying there is a societal benefit to aborting unwanted pregnancies as opposed to having more unwanted babies sucking up welfare and entitlements from taxpayers

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:53 PM

Killing the innocent unborn is a societal benefit?

And you dare deny you’re a liberal?

Liam on April 26, 2013 at 6:23 PM

I’m looking forward to the day that i can actually meet a pro-abort that actually feels as glib about the idea of an abortion as they do about getting a tooth pulled. It’s always, “abortion is terrible but i would never stop anyone from getting one”. If they honestly believe its not killing a child, why not embrace it whole hog?

crrr6 on April 26, 2013 at 6:23 PM

Semantics are the tools of the pro baby killers.

They love that term “fetus”. It detaches them from the humanity of the unborn.

CW on April 26, 2013 at 6:08 PM

Indeed.

But they’ll defend a serial killer from getting the death penalty to the hilt. Their definition of “life” is so twisted.

Bitter Clinger on April 26, 2013 at 6:23 PM

The word ‘war’ is found 4 times in the United States Constitution.

The word ‘abortion’? 0

The words ‘health care’? 0

The words ‘women’s health’? 0

The words ‘reproductive health’? 0

The words ‘Planned Parenthood’? 0

The word ‘privacy’? 0

Resist We Much on April 26, 2013 at 6:07 PM

The word ‘Marriage’: 0

I propose banning all marriage. Such impervious logic!

lester on April 26, 2013 at 6:24 PM

Exactly.

The h0m0sexual lifestyle, by definition, produces no offspring, so does not further the evolutionary process.

And the male h0m0sexual lifestyle is chock full of stuff that is evolutionarily undesirable.

The logical conclusion is too find that gene and abort those babies.

davidk on April 26, 2013 at 6:13 PM

The second logical conclusion will be the LGBT community coming out in full throated support of pro-lifers. Every aborted child is a missed opportunity for a gay couple to become parents.

Let’s see how well any Democrat can hold together that coalition.

weaselyone on April 26, 2013 at 6:24 PM

Lester sounds like a staunch Confederate in about 1862. “Slavery will just become more profitable and efficient. And the South shall rise again!”

Good Solid B-Plus on April 26, 2013 at 6:25 PM

lester on April 26, 2013 at 6:24 PM

Hey stupid man.
If you’re allowed to defend yourself then tell us why innocent lives shouldn’t be defended.

22044 on April 26, 2013 at 6:26 PM

Muslims don’t like… I don’t know what they don’t like about medicine but probably a lot.

lester, it’s time for your violin lesson! on April 26, 2013 at 3:36 PM

Most Muslim scholars hold that the child of rape is a legitimate child and thus it would be sinful to kill this child.

G-

Del Dolemonte on April 26, 2013 at 6:27 PM

22044 on April 26, 2013 at 6:20 PM

Great point..:)

Dire Straits on April 26, 2013 at 6:27 PM

I’m saying there is a greater societal benefit to placing unwanted children up for adoption to families not sucking up welfare and entitlements as opposed to abortion.

rukiddingme on April 26, 2013 at 6:19 PM

This is true, but a point not worth making to a liberal.

Their societal benefit arguments are simply their own attempts to rationalize their decision to be pro-abortion. They will grasp at anything in order to make themselves feel better about the horrible decision.

weaselyone on April 26, 2013 at 6:27 PM

Here’s where I draw the line: the government shouldn’t involve itself in pregnancy. Simple enough for you?

Armin Tamzarian on April 26, 2013 at 6:22 PM

But YOU are perfectly okay with government-sanctioned killing of the unborn, and that it be paid for with tax money.

If government shouldn’t be involved in pregnancy, then why are YOU so much into killing innocent babies with government funds?

Liam on April 26, 2013 at 6:28 PM

Good to see you Dire. :)

22044 on April 26, 2013 at 6:28 PM

It took a while for the truth to come out but here it is in all its glory.

Those for abortion have no qualms about others being aborted, as long as abortion can’t be done to them.

rukiddingme on April 26, 2013 at 6:16 PM

Of course the same crowd who believes in all sorts of magic would also hear the voice of imaginary humans complaining about not being born.

lester on April 26, 2013 at 6:29 PM

A Republican lawmaker in Maine has introduced a bill to prohibit abortions based on the sexual orientation of the unborn baby.

State Rep. Brian Duprey wants the Legislature to forbid a woman from ending a pregnancy because the fetus is homosexual.

He said the bill looks into the future in case scientists find what he described as a “homosexual gene.”

“I have heard from women who told me that if they found out that they were carrying a child with the gay gene, then they would abort. I think this is wrong,” said Duprey, who got the idea while listening to the Rush Limbaugh Show.

But some lawmakers say Duprey is neither interested in creating new policy to protect gays and lesbians nor seriously discussing the issue of abortion. The bill, they say, is a way of forcing some lawmakers to choose between abortion rights and gay rights. [Emphasis added]

http://www.wnd.com/2005/02/29120/

davidk on April 26, 2013 at 6:30 PM

This is true, but a point not worth making to a liberal.

Their societal benefit arguments are simply their own attempts to rationalize their decision to be pro-abortion. They will grasp at anything in order to make themselves feel better about the horrible decision.

weaselyone on April 26, 2013 at 6:27 PM

Yeah, the only point in making these arguments is to equip each other and others who read this forum.

Otherwise we’re casting pearls before swine…and I’d be insulting swine. :)

22044 on April 26, 2013 at 6:30 PM

Hey stupid man.
If you’re allowed to defend yourself then tell us why innocent lives shouldn’t be defended.

22044 on April 26, 2013 at 6:26 PM

Lives should, your religious definition of it shouldn’t.

lester on April 26, 2013 at 6:30 PM

Of course the same crowd who believes in all sorts of magic would also hear the voice of imaginary humans complaining about not being born.

lester on April 26, 2013 at 6:29 PM

Ever have chance to become a father?

Liam on April 26, 2013 at 6:31 PM

Failed arguments, thy name is lester!

22044 on April 26, 2013 at 6:20 PM

Of course everything you don’t agree with is a failed argument. Logic be damned!

lester on April 26, 2013 at 6:31 PM

imaginary humans

lester on April 26, 2013 at 6:29 PM

Thank you for showing us that you hate science.

22044 on April 26, 2013 at 6:31 PM

Thank you for showing us that you hate science.

22044 on April 26, 2013 at 6:31 PM

Considering the political affiliation of an absolute majority of scientists it’s particularly clear who hates science.

lester on April 26, 2013 at 6:32 PM

lester on April 26, 2013 at 6:30 PM

See my comment below – the definition I provided is not religious in any way.

22044 on April 26, 2013 at 6:32 PM

Lives should, your religious definition of it shouldn’t.

lester on April 26, 2013 at 6:30 PM

You liberals who hate religion are more hung up on the matter that are religious people.

Liam on April 26, 2013 at 6:32 PM

But YOU are perfectly okay with government-sanctioned killing of the unborn, and that it be paid for with tax money.

If government shouldn’t be involved in pregnancy, then why are YOU so much into killing innocent babies with government funds?

Liam on April 26, 2013 at 6:28 PM

I’ve made it perfectly clear before that I don’t believe any private business or industry should be receiving government subsidies. Subsidies disrupt the free market.

Armin Tamzarian on April 26, 2013 at 6:32 PM

lester on April 26, 2013 at 6:32 PM

Wrong.

22044 on April 26, 2013 at 6:33 PM

but I am saying there is a societal benefit to aborting unwanted pregnancies as opposed to having more unwanted babies sucking up welfare and entitlements from taxpayers

nonpartisan on April 26, 2013 at 5:53 PM
Killing the innocent unborn is a societal benefit?

And you dare deny you’re a liberal?

Liam on April 26, 2013 at 6:23 PM

Liam, we shall find out shortly, because based on NPs comment there, sterilization shouldn’t be an issue then, should it, I am going to go with NP will say that sterilization is a no go.

MarshFox on April 26, 2013 at 6:33 PM

Taking away choice means force. It’s pretty simple.

lester, it’s time for your violin lesson! on April 26, 2013 at 4:16 PM

Expert on “simple” weighs in.

Does that also include taking away the constitutionally-guaranteed choice for Americans to own guns?

(Starts Sundial)

Del Dolemonte on April 26, 2013 at 6:34 PM

A zygote being human life is a scientific definition, not a religious one. Again, lester, your side is the one engaged in magical thinking.

Oh, and yeah, government shouldn’t be in the marriage business. Congrats, you almost tripped into holding an actual conservative position! Not surprising that your default position is to ban anything not in the constitution, though.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 26, 2013 at 6:35 PM

Of course the same crowd who believes in all sorts of magic would also hear the voice of imaginary humans complaining about not being born.

lester on April 26, 2013 at 6:29 PM

Please excuse the assumption, but I assume you would include me in ” the same crowd who believes in all sorts of magic.”

To what “sorts of magic” do you refer?

davidk on April 26, 2013 at 6:35 PM

Ever have chance to become a father?

Liam on April 26, 2013 at 6:31 PM

Personal questions regarding my family, state/city I reside in, school I graduated from, occupation and so on are more than likely to go unanswered on any Internet forum.

lester on April 26, 2013 at 6:36 PM

Armin Tamzarian on April 26, 2013 at 6:22 PM

Yep – you keep proving me right.

Oh and when you go to spelling mistakes…just shows you don’t have much.

You and yours are the real racists- own it.

Why do you hate brown people?

CW on April 26, 2013 at 6:36 PM

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