Good news: Planned Parenthood of Indiana now offering gift certificates

posted at 1:21 pm on November 26, 2008 by Allahpundit

A little dose of holiday spirit on Thanksgiving eve. And yes, it’s for real.

This year, give the gift of convenience.

“People are making really tough decisions about putting gas in their car and food on their table, so we know that many women especially put healthcare at the bottom of their list to do,” said Chrystal Struben-Hall, Vice President of Planned Parenthood of Indiana…

“They can be seen for sexually transmitted disease screenings, HIV tests and general prostate exams and those kinds of things,” said Struben-Hall.

Some Hoosiers 24-Hour News 8 talked to asked if the gift certificates could be used towards abortions. The answer is yes. But, Planned Parenthood said that’s not the purpose of the gift certificates…

Indiana Family Institute President Curt Smith said he is appalled by the certificates.

“I think the way to help family planning is to give the money where there’s no agenda. So if somebody wants to help a woman at a time of crisis, they can support the life centers throughout Indiana,” said Smith.

Think of it not so much as a gift certificate than as a receipt, in case Santa left something under your tree that you’d like to “return.” Exit question: What kind of relationship would you have to have with someone for a gift certificate from Planned Parenthood to be appropriate? If you’re buying for your significant other, cash works just as well. If you’re buying for friends, um … what’s the message there? “Merry Christmas, buddy. The next prostate exam’s on me.”


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Comment pages: 1 2

Think of it not so much as a gift certificate than as a receipt, in case Santa left something under your tree that you’d like to “return.”

Uh…yeah.

Ewwww.

Bob's Kid on November 26, 2008 at 1:26 PM

Can they be used for an abortion?
That’s something in your stocking.

Badger40 on November 26, 2008 at 1:26 PM

Next thing Planned Parenthood is going to promote is: for every 4 abortions, the 5th on is us!

Lance Murdock on November 26, 2008 at 1:27 PM

Sign me up!

:-)

Good Lt on November 26, 2008 at 1:29 PM

If feminists could have babies, abortion would be a sacrament. Oh wait.

Akzed on November 26, 2008 at 1:29 PM

Maybe you could get a whole booklet for the liberal in your life. These people must practice at being vulgar as I refuse to believe anyone could naturally be this way.

sharrukin on November 26, 2008 at 1:29 PM

AdrianS on November 26, 2008 at 1:27 PM

Dude. Seriously.

Stop. Just stop. You are embarrassing yourself.

Good Lt on November 26, 2008 at 1:30 PM

Next up: Gift cards with pictures of the ideal gift!

raybury on November 26, 2008 at 1:30 PM

Exit question: What kind of relationship would you have to have with someone for a gift certificate from Planned Parenthood to be appropriate?

Congratulations pimps and playas, Christmas shopping just got easier for your #1 (and #2, and #3) ho ho ho.

BKennedy on November 26, 2008 at 1:30 PM

Shocked.. Shocked!

I was wondering when this was going to be a item.

upinak on November 26, 2008 at 1:30 PM

Blaise on November 26, 2008 at 12:25 PM

You’re good and getting quicker. Have a Happy!

kanda on November 26, 2008 at 1:30 PM

Barney Frank volunteering to administer the prostate exams?

MNDavenotPC on November 26, 2008 at 1:32 PM

Next thing Planned Parenthood is going to promote is: for every 4 abortions, the 5th on is us!

Lance Murdock on November 26, 2008 at 1:27 PM

Yeah, like the “buy ten, get one free” cards at Starbucks. I am very afraid that Planned Parenthood feels sufficiently empowered to be THAT brazen about promoting its services.

Outlander on November 26, 2008 at 1:33 PM

It’s true.
people can survive without a brain…AND A HEART.

They’re celebrating His birth with coupons for death.

kingsjester on November 26, 2008 at 1:33 PM

It sends a simple message–please don’t procreate.
I could think of a few people it might be appropriate for.

NellE on November 26, 2008 at 1:33 PM

Do they come emblazoned with a special holiday swastika?

CP on November 26, 2008 at 1:37 PM

I believe in “truth in advertising.” Planned Parenthood should not be able to issue their “gift certificates” unless a close-up photograph of an aborted dead baby is prominently featured on the front of the aforementioned “gift certificate.”

My collie says:

See CC’s latest rant The Age Of Obama: Eugenics Reaches Its Zenith

CyberCipher on November 26, 2008 at 1:37 PM

AdrianS on November 26, 2008 at 1:27 PM

Dude. Seriously.

Stop. Just stop. You are embarrassing yourself.

Good Lt on November 26, 2008 at 1:30 PM

+100.. Beat me to it.

Illinidiva on November 26, 2008 at 1:38 PM

Exit question: What kind of relationship would you have to have with someone for a gift certificate from Planned Parenthood to be appropriate?

They probably go in the “Choice on Earth” greeting cards…

http://www.pregnantpause.org/people/xmascard.jpg

ninjapirate on November 26, 2008 at 1:40 PM

Thanks for making me vomit in my throat Allah. You seem to be on a roll lately. Gift certs to kill your baby. I need a a mental shower…

Disgusting.

Dritanian on November 26, 2008 at 1:41 PM

Even forgetting the abortion angle for a minute here, who the hell would get this for someone? Who is going to get someone a gift certificate for a free STD screening?

amerpundit on November 26, 2008 at 1:41 PM

Sick sick sick. Don’t clinics do free testing? In that case wouldn’t the gift certificates only be for murdering tiny babies? Just curious…

Doppleganker on November 26, 2008 at 1:41 PM

Every leftard on my list is getting one.

DarkCurrent on November 26, 2008 at 1:42 PM

PETITION FOR PUBLIC RELEASE OF
BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA’S BIRTH CERTIFICATE

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=81550

AdrianS on November 26, 2008 at 1:27 PM

Alan Keyes is posting to HotAir now? What an unexpected development.

thuja on November 26, 2008 at 1:42 PM

Well.. If a husband wants to sleep outside in his car for the next few years, he should by all means go pick up one of those gift certificates. In what world is a free pap smear considered a good Christmas gift… Seriously, I still cannot believe this is true. It has to be out of the Onion, right?? Right??

Urge to surpress giggling… Urge to surpress giggling..

Illinidiva on November 26, 2008 at 1:42 PM

Next up: Gift cards with pictures of the ideal gift!

raybury on November 26, 2008 at 1:30 PM

Pictures of dead fetuses. How appropriate for the Chirstmas holiday.

Even forgetting the abortion angle for a minute here, who the hell would get this for someone? Who is going to get someone a gift certificate for a free STD screening?

amerpundit on November 26, 2008 at 1:41 PM

I think Bill is buying one for Hillary this year.

Badger40 on November 26, 2008 at 1:44 PM

Every leftard on my list is getting one.

DarkCurrent on November 26, 2008 at 1:42 PM

The only good thing outta that would be that we’d be responsible for aborting future libtards.
Wait a minute……

Badger40 on November 26, 2008 at 1:45 PM

I hope the Pittsburgh Planned Parenthood follows suit. I have a neighbor that I’d like to make sure doesn’t have a child until she’s several years older.

thuja on November 26, 2008 at 1:45 PM

Alan Keyes is posting to HotAir now? What an unexpected development.

And an unfortunate one.

Good Lt on November 26, 2008 at 1:48 PM

Thus, a conservative estimate for the number of black babies aborted every year in the United States is 365 days * 5/7 * 1369 = 356,917 black babies aborted per year in the United States. Again, taking a conservative tack, let us round this number down to the lower and simpler figure of 350,000 black babies aborted every year in the United States. Are you getting a feel for the numbers yet? -Cyber Cipher

This is not the same as a population losing this many of its citizens against its will. Without immorality, these pregnancies would not exist. They are an attempt to cover up immorality or relieve financial stress, real or imagined. These abortions return the birthrate to something closer to what it would have been without liberal abortion laws.

Plus, no one knows anyone who was successfully aborted, yet there are many thousands of citizens who know womeone killed on 9/11. So not withing to be harsh, and I am prolife, nevertheless your thesis is sort of a pseudo-profundity.

Akzed on November 26, 2008 at 1:49 PM

Penicillin and a candy cane. Thank you, Planned Parenthood!

whitetop on November 26, 2008 at 1:50 PM

Idea!

How about giving the gift certificates to Liberals,
that way,they could put it towards brain surgery,
and bring their brains back to the center!(Sarc!).

canopfor on November 26, 2008 at 1:50 PM

“When you care enough to kill the very best.”

29Victor on November 26, 2008 at 1:51 PM

Badger40 on November 26, 2008 at 1:45 PM

They’re good for STD screenings. Clearly needed and something I can support.

DarkCurrent on November 26, 2008 at 1:51 PM

But, Planned Parenthood said that’s not the purpose of the gift certificates…

I think it’s time to call bovine excreta on Planned Parenthood.

Seven Percent Solution on November 26, 2008 at 1:52 PM

They’re good for STD screenings. Clearly needed and something I can support.

DarkCurrent on November 26, 2008 at 1:51 PM

Dude, who is going to buy that for someone for Christmas?

“Merry Christmas, honey! Now here’s a gift certificate to get yourself tested for STDs”?

There’s a lovely holiday memory.

amerpundit on November 26, 2008 at 1:54 PM

I get the privilege (heavy sarcasm) of working around the local chapter chairman of the board here in Lafayette.

Once I knew that it explained a lot about him.

Gift certificates? Wow, just wow…

kybowexar on November 26, 2008 at 1:55 PM

The Obamas should get one each for their daughters so the family won’t be “punished with a baby”, in case either of the two girls, down the road as teenagers, happens to get pregnant.

Steve Tsouloufis on November 26, 2008 at 1:56 PM

canopfor on November 26, 2008 at 1:50 PM

I’m starting to see the appeal of socialized medical care…

DarkCurrent on November 26, 2008 at 1:57 PM

The Obamas should get one each for their daughters so the family won’t be “punished with a baby”, in case either of the two girls, down the road as teenagers, happens to get pregnant.

Steve Tsouloufis on November 26, 2008 at 1:56 PM

Ha ha! I agree.
Obama should also get one for the wife. It’s a “green” gift!

Badger40 on November 26, 2008 at 2:00 PM

amerpundit on November 26, 2008 at 1:54 PM

I love those libards and just want them to live healthy lives. This is a gift of life.

DarkCurrent on November 26, 2008 at 2:01 PM

So if somebody wants to help a woman at a time of crisis, they can support the life centers throughout Indiana,” said Smith.

“Life centers” that perform abortions? Hmmm, something not quite right about that.

raz0r on November 26, 2008 at 2:02 PM

A gift certificate to kill a child does make it seem more festive and party like.

BL@KBIRD on November 26, 2008 at 2:03 PM

Women have prostates??

Gaunilon on November 26, 2008 at 2:05 PM

Q: Can I specify that the certificate is to be used only on Black babies?

A: Yes, of course you can! Just let me take your credit card information….

unclesmrgol on November 26, 2008 at 2:06 PM

How about Dr.Kavorkian reopens his office,
and send Liberals there with the gift
certifactes!A hem.(Sarc!).

canopfor on November 26, 2008 at 2:09 PM

Related quip:

Planned Parenthood Gift Certificates:

Putting the Ho in Ho Ho Ho.

BKennedy on November 26, 2008 at 2:14 PM

“When you care enough to kill the very best.”

29Victor on November 26, 2008 at 1:51 PM

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a thread winner.

CyberCipher on November 26, 2008 at 2:14 PM

Eh, if someone got me this gift I’d be deeply offended.

Gift certificates aren’t reusable. If they really cared, they’d offer gift cards. I might want to get rid of several burdens.

Sir Corky on November 26, 2008 at 2:15 PM

I really wasn’t aware that “general prostate exams” was a significant percentage of their business.

eeyore on November 26, 2008 at 2:16 PM

@ amerpundit on November 26, 2008 at 1:41 PM

If you were in a failed relationship and your ex-girlfriend came to you with the fact that she was pregnant, this wouldn’t be a bad gift for her. The boyfriend certainly doesn’t want to accompany her down to the clinic, so a gift certificate would be a nice gesture.

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 2:19 PM

If you were in a failed relationship and your ex-girlfriend came to you with the fact that she was pregnant, this wouldn’t be a bad gift for her. The boyfriend certainly doesn’t want to accompany her down to the clinic, so a gift certificate would be a nice gesture.

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 2:19 PM

Good point. I should keep a few in my wallet so I can just whip them out in case that happens. Better safe than sorry :)

Sir Corky on November 26, 2008 at 2:20 PM

“They can be seen for sexually transmitted disease screenings, HIV tests and general prostate exams and those kinds of things,” said Struben-Hall.

I was just diagnosed with prostate cancer so I’ve been doing a lot of research about the prostate and one thing I’ve learned is that WOMEN DON’T HAVE THEM!!

Trafalgar on November 26, 2008 at 2:20 PM

Sing it all you Obama girls:

On the twelth day of Christmas my true love gave to me:
12 Planned parent hood gift certificates
11 Broken election promises
10 Clintonistas
9 Skeletons in the closet
8 Kos Kids blogging
7 ACLU lawyers
6 Domestic Terrorists
5 ES – TEE – DEES!
4 Michael Moore videos
3 Auto bailouts
2 Tickets to the innaugeration
And a free-ee-ee A-a booor-tion!

Laura in Maryland on November 26, 2008 at 2:21 PM

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 2:19 PM

Yeah, just what I was thinking…

DarkCurrent on November 26, 2008 at 2:22 PM

Related quip:

Planned Parenthood Gift Certificates:

Putting the Ho in Ho Ho Ho.

BKennedy on November 26, 2008 at 2:14 PM

Did not want to laugh – but okay….

+1

kybowexar on November 26, 2008 at 2:22 PM

And what the heck is a “general prostate exam” anyway? All exams are very specific

Trafalgar on November 26, 2008 at 2:24 PM

What says “I love you” more than “murder the baby”?

Infanticide, keeping the ‘X’ in Xmas.

Hening on November 26, 2008 at 2:25 PM

I was just diagnosed with prostate cancer so I’ve been doing a lot of research about the prostate and one thing I’ve learned is that WOMEN DON’T HAVE THEM!!

Trafalgar on November 26, 2008 at 2:20 PM

SEXIST!

I am so sorry to hear that. I’m not sure if you have the “watchful waiting” variety or the more aggressive variety, but please included Taxotere in your research. It works, and the trials going on now are just to determine the best order to give treatments or dosages.

Laura in Maryland on November 26, 2008 at 2:26 PM

What woman has a prostate? Maybe they meant prostrate, as in the now-appropriate greeting when a woman encounters a man.

chunderroad on November 26, 2008 at 2:28 PM

If you were in a failed relationship and your ex-girlfriend came to you with the fact that she was pregnant, this wouldn’t be a bad gift for her. The boyfriend certainly doesn’t want to accompany her down to the clinic, so a gift certificate would be a nice gesture.

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 2:19 PM

Let me guess… You haven’t been in a meaningful relationship in quite awhile. This really is a nice gesture unless you’d like your ex-girlfriend to give you a shiner.

Illinidiva on November 26, 2008 at 2:28 PM

Thanks Laura from a fellow Marylander. I’m afraid I’m in the “let’s get it the hell out of there quick” category. Fortunately my surgeaon is an expert on the da Vinci robot-assisted surgery so things are a lot easier. Since I have the floor…every man here over 40, go get a PSA test every year. Every woman who loves a man over 40, take him to get one!

Trafalgar on November 26, 2008 at 2:29 PM

So if somebody wants to help a woman at a time of crisis, they can support the life centers throughout Indiana,” said Smith.
“Life centers” that perform abortions? Hmmm, something not quite right about that.

raz0r on November 26, 2008 at 2:02 PM

I think the “Life Center” spokesman is representing a pro-life group, urging people to support crisis pregnancy centers (adoption counseling, etc.) instead of buying a “let me pay for your abortion!” cards. They probably contacted him for his quote, to balance the article.

cs89 on November 26, 2008 at 2:40 PM

Best college gag gift ever. They’ll make a fortune.

omriceren on November 26, 2008 at 2:41 PM

Plus, no one knows anyone who was successfully aborted…

Akzed on November 26, 2008 at 1:49 PM

My collie says:

Read Jeremiah 1:5
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

How sad that you are EXACTLY dead wrong on this point. Have you considered what else that you might be wrong about?

CyberCipher on November 26, 2008 at 2:41 PM

The ‘Life Center’ being the place were they kill. That George Orwell guy really nailed it with ’1984′.

sharrukin on November 26, 2008 at 2:45 PM

Thanks Laura from a fellow Marylander. I’m afraid I’m in the “let’s get it the hell out of there quick” category. Fortunately my surgeaon is an expert on the da Vinci robot-assisted surgery so things are a lot easier. Since I have the floor…every man here over 40, go get a PSA test every year. Every woman who loves a man over 40, take him to get one!

Trafalgar on November 26, 2008 at 2:29 PM

My husband had that surgery this summer – five tiny incisions is definitely better than the stem to stern version! He was up and around in a couple of days (although he tired easily for several weeks, so stay home as long as they tell you to, even though you’ll think you don’t need to). Hope everything goes as well for you.

Quisp on November 26, 2008 at 2:46 PM

Don’t know about the rest of Indiana, but to the best of my knowledge, there is no Planned Parenthood center that performs abortions in Indianapolis itself.

As to the gift certificate stuff, it is a great idea. Lots of people go to PP to do stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with abortions…

Great Sage on November 26, 2008 at 2:47 PM

I hope the Pittsburgh Planned Parenthood follows suit. I have a neighbor that I’d like to make sure doesn’t have a child until she’s several years older.

thuja on November 26, 2008 at 1:45 PM

If she’s that young, do you really think it’s appropriate that she receive that from you?

Without immorality, these pregnancies would not exist.

Akzed on November 26, 2008 at 1:49 PM

Blanket statements are almost always wrong. Many abortions are performed because the fetus is likely to have a problem (like Downs Syndrom babies) and some are performed because the father is no longer alive. There are many reasons women find themselves pregnant with a child they don’t want, and not all of them have to do with immorality.

If you were in a failed relationship and your ex-girlfriend came to you with the fact that she was pregnant, this wouldn’t be a bad gift for her. The boyfriend certainly doesn’t want to accompany her down to the clinic, so a gift certificate would be a nice gesture.

muyoso on November 26, 2008 at 2:19 PM

Maybe, but even then she’d be just as happy with a check or cash. And that wouldn’t be much of a gift. Chances are, if she’s having an abortion, and it’s half your DNA, you’re going to pay for it (at least half) like it or not.

Esthier on November 26, 2008 at 2:57 PM

Lots of people go to PP to do stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with abortions…

Maybe so, but going to an institution that thrives on killing baies for an exam of the prostate which is essential for creating babies….the irony is staggering!

Trafalgar on November 26, 2008 at 2:57 PM

As to the gift certificate stuff, it is a great idea. Lots of people go to PP to do stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with abortions…

Great Sage on November 26, 2008 at 2:47 PM

Sure, but who would want a Christmas present out of those trips?

And about the prostate, PP actually does things for men as well. I’m not sure they go that far, but the STD tests and such aren’t just limited to women.

Esthier on November 26, 2008 at 3:00 PM

Many abortions are performed because the fetus is likely to have a problem (like Downs Syndrom babies) and some are performed because the father is no longer alive.

So the fact that a child’s father is no longer alive is justification for killing his progeny?

Trafalgar on November 26, 2008 at 3:01 PM

So the fact that a child’s father is no longer alive is justification for killing his progeny?

Trafalgar on November 26, 2008 at 3:01 PM

I’ve never claimed there’s ever a justification for an abortion. That was not the point of the initial comment nor my response.

Esthier on November 26, 2008 at 3:05 PM

Trafalgar on November 26, 2008

Best wishes for speedy recovery and a cancer-free life. Just had a PSA and prostate exam last week. PSA is clean but that’s no guarantee. Doc wants me to have colonoscopy at some point in the future. Problem: I know exactly one man that had a colonoscopy and they tore his colon. Yikes!!
He told me they treated the tear with nitro glycerin suppositories. Double yikes!!
Still waiting to see if the Flomax works like advertised. More than you ever wanted to know about me, right?
And no, the doctor did not have both hands on my shoulders during the exam.

SKYFOX on November 26, 2008 at 3:07 PM

Well as far as std treatment goes, I guess you could think of it as giving a gift to get rid of the gift that keeps on giving.

sheesh on November 26, 2008 at 3:07 PM

Esthier on November 26, 2008 at 3:05 PM

My apologies for misinterpreting your comment

Trafalgar on November 26, 2008 at 3:07 PM

Trafalgar on November 26, 2008 at 3:01 PM

And why just ask about that one? Does that mean you do feel it’s justified to terminate pregnancies where the fetus might have Downs?

Esthier on November 26, 2008 at 3:07 PM

My apologies for misinterpreting your comment

Trafalgar on November 26, 2008 at 3:07 PM

Thank you. I appreciate it.

Esthier on November 26, 2008 at 3:12 PM

SKYFOX on November 26, 2008 at 3:07 PM

Thanks! Good for you on the PSA. It’s not a perfect test but a good indicator. As far as the colonoscopy goes, I’ve had two and everything went fine. Nothing to do with the prostate though and if he’s concerned about your prostate he’s probably talking about a trans-rectal prostate biopsy. Not fun but not too bad. Either way, keep an eye on your health!

Trafalgar on November 26, 2008 at 3:14 PM

And why just ask about that one? Does that mean you do feel it’s justified to terminate pregnancies where the fetus might have Downs?

Esthier on November 26, 2008 at 3:07 PM

No, I don’t believe that Down Syndrome or other pre-natal conditions justify abortion, I was just struck by the father-is-dead “justification”, I hadn’t heard that one before.

Trafalgar on November 26, 2008 at 3:21 PM

cs89 on November 26, 2008 at 2:40 PM

Mea Culpa, right you are. Guess I should read a tad slower.

raz0r on November 26, 2008 at 3:27 PM

Sin is madness.

Want another but non-grotesque example?

A research team in Iowa took two identical groups of people and gave each of the groups a plate of cookies that only their group could eat. One plate had sugar cookies with sprinkles. The other just plain sugar cookies. The groups were then told to interact.

Research conclusion after interviewing the test subjects individually: The group that had cookies with sprinkles looked down on the group that didn’t have sprinkles and vice versa.

Sin is madness.

shick on November 26, 2008 at 3:35 PM

I hope the Pittsburgh Planned Parenthood follows suit. I have a neighbor that I’d like to make sure doesn’t have a child until she’s several years older.

thuja on November 26, 2008 at 1:45 PM

There is so much wrong with that comment I don’t even know where to begin.

thevastlane on November 26, 2008 at 3:39 PM

No, I don’t believe that Down Syndrome or other pre-natal conditions justify abortion, I was just struck by the father-is-dead “justification”, I hadn’t heard that one before.

Trafalgar on November 26, 2008 at 3:21 PM

Oh, I see.

I can’t claim originality on that one. It was used in a song, though the woman in that song wasn’t married yet.

Esthier on November 26, 2008 at 3:41 PM

How sad that you are EXACTLY dead wrong on this point. Have you considered what else that you might be wrong about?
CyberCipher on November 26, 2008 at 2:41 PM

Are you saying that God is omniscient? Huh. So how does God’s omniscience prove your point?

Pretty weak, dood.

Akzed on November 26, 2008 at 3:52 PM

There are many reasons women find themselves pregnant with a child they don’t want, and not all of them have to do with immorality.
Esthier on November 26, 2008 at 2:57 PM

So what percentage of black abortions involve married women? Since 70% of their live births do not involve married women, what would you say is the percentage of abortions procured by blacks that involve married women?

Akzed on November 26, 2008 at 3:56 PM

So what percentage of black abortions involve married women? Since 70% of their live births do not involve married women, what would you say is the percentage of abortions procured by blacks that involve married women?

Akzed on November 26, 2008 at 3:56 PM

Actually, I’d say that I don’t give a damn about discussing whether or not blacks are immoral. You’re discussing them as though they’re a group to study. It’s pointless and completely irrelevant to my comment.

Esthier on November 26, 2008 at 3:59 PM

There are many reasons women find themselves pregnant with a child they don’t want, and not all of them have to do with immorality.
Esthier on November 26, 2008 at 2:57 PM

Funny, I have a dog I no longer want, but it’s against the law to kill him. Got to bring him to the pound instead so someone who wants him can adopt.
Pretty sad when we treat dogs better than people.

dpierson on November 26, 2008 at 4:02 PM

Pretty sad when we treat dogs better than people.

dpierson on November 26, 2008 at 4:02 PM

Well, yes and no. The pound will kill him if no one else wants him. That’s never the case with unwanted children (outside the womb).

And instead of paying for expensive medical treatments we generally just have our pets killed.

Esthier on November 26, 2008 at 4:09 PM

As an alternative to toys-for-tots this year you can get Abortions-for-Adolescence

This sickness in these people will never end.

Bicyea on November 26, 2008 at 4:33 PM

>>Inside womb = fetus. Kill the little lump of flesh as you please.

>>5 minutes later, outside the womb = baby. We must protect the children!

———-

Holding those two ideas in your head at the same time is insane. I don’t agree, but I can at least understand the person that doesn’t call it a child until it has some kind of discernible features or brain activity. But the hard line pro choice stance above? Crazy, stupid, or flat out evil.

TheUnrepentantGeek on November 26, 2008 at 4:33 PM

Are you saying that God is omniscient? Huh. So how does God’s omniscience prove your point?

Pretty weak, dood.

Akzed on November 26, 2008 at 3:52 PM

Jews and Christians have believed since the time of Moses (and perhaps even before that) that God is not limited by time in the same way that humans are. Augustine probably stated it most succinctly when he said that God is “outside of time.” God knows our past, present, and future before we are even born, because He exists in the past, present, and future simultaneously. Past, present, and future are all the same to Him, and He moves from one to the other, and back, as easily as we take a trip to the grocery store.

Furthermore, God has an intended life-plan for each and every human that He creates even before conception occurs. These plans are one portion/facet of the will of God. Evil is in open rebellion and at war with the will of God. Evil frequently uses the free will of Man to thwart God’s plans. God permits this because He knows that without Man’s free will, the love that He has for His people, and the love that His People have for Him, would not be genuine, but contrived. God values this love above all else — it is a part of His very nature. (God would have no use for “love” that has been coerced from those whom He has created.) Thus, the evil continues to dwell among us, and it inflicts incalculable damage upon us. We pay a price for our disobedience (acts of free will) as evidenced by the suffering, misery, and death that is all around us.

For each one of us, the future is filled with innumerable possible outcomes. The fulfillment of any of those infinite and possible outcomes depends upon the choices that each of us make in our lives — by exercising our individual free wills. Some people choose to murder their own offspring before it is born, thereby prematurely terminating ALL of those possible outcomes for the individuals that God “knew” while they were yet in the womb. To God, these “virtual” lifetimes lived by aborted fetuses that “never were” are no less “real” than the historical choices or events that have occurred in your lifetime or in my lifetime. They are choices/events that “never were” but could have been — had the life of the individual not been terminated prematurely.

People that abort their own children are essentially saying to God that the value of their own selfish desires somehow trumps God’s will/plans, and they are “dissing” the value that God places on that individual that “never was”. I, for one, would not want to try to tell God what to do or plan, or try to tell Him what He should value and what He shouldn’t.

My collie says:

If you want to call that a “weak” argument, go ahead — but you should be warned that if you support ” the right to abortion”, you are complicit in the crime. Don’t believe it? Then you do not understand the nature of God. Read Ezekiel chapter 3.

CyberCipher on November 26, 2008 at 6:05 PM

CyberCipher on November 26, 2008 at 6:05 PM

What you are describing in the first part of your statement is predestination, which is something not all Christians believe.

unclesmrgol on November 26, 2008 at 7:20 PM

What you are describing in the first part of your statement is predestination, which is something not all Christians believe.

unclesmrgol on November 26, 2008 at 7:20 PM

Not from my perspective. I come from the Wesleyan tradition (i.e. I am NOT a Calvinist). Although I’ll admit that John Calvin got a lot of his ideas from Augustine, I am not in the pre-destination camp. (Talk to ColtsFan if you want to discuss that point of view — he not only subscribes to it, but he is more well read than I am.) The philosophical debate regarding Free Will vs. Determinism predates the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ. The ancient Greeks argued about it. For me, the matter was settled once and for all, not by theologians or philosophers, but by physicists in the 1920′s. The underlying fabric of the universe is probabilistic, not deterministic.

What I WILL argue is that time is not what we humans think that it is. Einstein proved this with his special theory of relativity. Time progresses at different rates in difference reference frames — simultaneously, depending on your location in the universe. Furthermore, Einstein’s general theory of relatively showed that time progresses at a slower rate in the vicinity of large gravitational bodies. Ask yourself “Which one of these reference frames for time is God’s reference frame?” It seems to me that the only answer that makes any sense is “all of them”. To me, this is proof that Augustine was correct. God is outside of time.

CyberCipher on November 26, 2008 at 7:53 PM

Planned Premeditated Parenthood Murder seems to have forgotten that Christmas is all about a teen single mother (in a culture that routinely executed single mothers) choosing life.

jgapinoy on November 26, 2008 at 8:03 PM

Planned Premeditated Parenthood Murder seems to have forgotten that Christmas is all about a teen single mother (in a culture that routinely executed single mothers) choosing life.

jgapinoy on November 26, 2008 at 8:03 PM

That’s what I like about you jgapinoy. You have a knack for cutting right to the heart of the matter.

My collie says:

I think he’s better at the irony than you are at the sarcasm, CC.

Each of us must be content to use the gifts that God has given to us.

CyberCipher on November 26, 2008 at 8:20 PM

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