Those unionized auto workers are paid disproportionately high for the work they do…

highhopes on November 25, 2008 at 10:25 AM

Really? Says who? Says you?

And your expertise on autoworker compensation/labor relations comes from where?

Did you consider for a moment that the foreign manufacturers may be paying their workers too little for the work they do?

Again, I ask: where is your personal expertise coming from in order for you to make that declaration? And, are you willing to take a pay cut yourself should somebody decide you are paid disproportionately high for the work you do?

Actually, dude, you’re the one that needs to face it. Do greedy unions exist? You bet. Do greedy corporate executives exist? Of course. Both are at fault here. Yet neither deserve a bailout from the American taxpayer. They got themselves into this mess, they’ll have to work together to get themselves out.

What you don’t understand is that elimination of unions won’t suddenly solve the problem. The line that unions “may have had their time and place in the past” shows ignorance and a lack of understanding of labor relations. For years many unions and company managers have been able to successfully hammer out CBA’s that left both parties in good shape. In the case of the auto industry however, poor decisions by both management and the union have brought them to this. Again, doing away with the union won’t solve the problem here.

Remember that both parties serve as a check and balance system. In this case, the system failed them both. The Big Three were raking in profit hand over fist on high profit margin SUV’s and other gas-guzzlers. Corporate management saw fit to negotiate contracts with the UAW that paid their workers very well. Everybody, union and management alike, were toasting their success.

Then gas went over $4.00 a gallon. SUV and truck sales dried up. The party was over.

But to place the blame chiefly on the unions and call for their removal is nothing but “balderdash” and scapegoating.

This where you need to face it, highhopes. The Big Three management could have taken some of those big fat profits, used some outside-the-box thinking, and started work on producing cars that were more fuel efficient and used alternative fuel sources, just in case, you know, gasoline should ever go ABOVE $4.00 A GALLON!

But no. It wasn’t until light sweet crude hit $140 per barrel that we saw American auto makers change the tune of their advertising and start highlighting their more “fuel efficient” cars.

Uh, too late guys.

So tell me, highhopes. Was it the UAW that put a gun to the heads of management and told them not to invest in the future with fuel-efficient, hybrid type cars? You know, the cars that Nissan, Toyota, and Honda had the forward thinking to develop and build years ago, just in case a gallon of gas went over $4.00 a gallon?

I don’t personally care how they arrived as the validity of their message is more important to consider.

Demanding that other people be paid less is socialism, folks. Period.

Et tu Brute on November 25, 2008 at 10:16 AM

Balderdash! Those unionized auto workers are paid disproportionately high for the work they do and there is no way that you can ever justify over $70/hour in wages and benefits for unskilled labor.

Face it dude, unions are a big part of the problem here. They may have had their time and place in the past but they don’t add anything to the current work environment beyond adding to overhead.

Kidd on November 25, 2008 at 3:09 AM

You’re missing the point. While those past contracts and pensions are an issue the problem is with the UAW of the present and their refusal to make any concessions.

For the auto manufacturers to get healthy they need to cut jobs and salaries and that means concessions from the UAW. Since we all know that the unions won’t ever agree to that, the companies should file for bankruptcy, get rid of the union contracts that exist, and restructure.

Face it, organized labor is part of the problem in this equation and there will be no solution as long as unskilled labor is getting upwards of $70/hour in wages and benefits.

There’s a lot of misinformation being thrown about concerning our autoworkers. Again, if you think some guy or gal on the line is being paid too much and you want to take their paycheck or benefits away, you best be willing to point that finger of scrutiny at yourself and consider whether or not YOU are being paid too much as well.

Demanding that other people be paid less is socialism, folks. Period.

Unless you are willing to take that pay cut first, or lose your benefits first, it would be best to put a sock in that socialist rhetoric.

It’s funny, though. When the Boeing tanker contract was in dispute with Airbus, people were screaming to keep American jobs here to build an American airplane. Yet now we have people screaming that American made cars suck and those American autoworkers are overpaid. And that those foreign cars (Honda, Toyota, Nissan) are so much better.

So which is it, people? You can’t have it both ways.

My kitty says:

By the way, those Boeing workers…they’re all union.

Listen carefully to the last few comments at the end; which are quite surprising from a Detroit based newspaper.

That’s bullshit. GM in Detroit denied that report and said that the money will come from Brazilian operations and local funds. The phrase that GM’s Brazil head allegedly said was not a quote but was in the reporter’s words. I’ve emailed the editor of the LAHT to clarify in light of GM’s denial, since I write for some automotive sites, and he didn’t answer me. I call bullshit.

rokemronnie on November 25, 2008 at 2:06 AM

Yeah sure it is. GM denied the report so of course we should believe them. It’s not like they have 25 billion reasons to shade the truth.

Jaime Ardila speaks English, Spanish and German and the Latin American Herald Tribune is an English language paper so its most unlikely to be a mistranslation.

http://www.smartmoney.com/news/ON/?story=ON-20081027-000485-1444

Published October 27, 2008 2:44 PM

Nevertheless, GM plans to invest $1.5 billion in Brazil by 2012. Part of that money has already been spent. Ardila said that GM in Brazil was also talking to the corporate headquarters in the U.S. for another $1 billion. A decision on that isn’t expected until sometime next year.

This is in October and from Rogerio Jelmayer, Dow Jones Newswires, 5511-2847-4541, brazil@dowjones.com

So it seems the $1 billion IS coming from the US.

Of course I am sure it will be a different billion dollars they send to Brazil, not one of the bailout billions! /sarc

-Average UAW worker at Big 3= $71-76/hr. or $130k/yr.

More bullshit. I’m no fan of the UAW but that’s a red herring. The $70+ figure is the total cost of the contract per active employee per hour. It’s not wages. It includes all the pensions and health benefit costs for retirees.

Instead of being pissed off at the UAW, what about the 1.6 million federal employees (non postal civilian) who average $66,000 in salary plus a benefit package that would make the UAW green with envy. There are about 300,000 federal employees who make more than $77K a year, over 130,000 who make more than $90K a year.

The federal government has transferred almost a trillion dollars from the industrial midwest to the deep south and DC suburbs of VA and MD. Because of all those rich government workers nine of the 20 wealthiest counties in the country are in VA and MD, with Maryland having the highest per capita income in the US.

Michigan has been looted of over $200 billion since 1981. Michigan taxpayers paid for roads and ramps leading to Mercedes and Hyundai plants in Alabama.

But instead, you’d rather rag on my neighbors.

Scheeze, make them drive up in at least a 10 year old car from their own factory. Let them experience the piece of junk they tell us is the best quality possible for the price. That’s why I bought foreign this year.

boingo_tx

Because, after all, cars are built the same way today as they were 10 years ago, aren’t they?

Some people.

General Motors to Invest $1 Billion in Brazil Operations — Money to Come from U.S. Rescue Program

sharrukin

That’s bullshit. GM in Detroit denied that report and said that the money will come from Brazilian operations and local funds. The phrase that GM’s Brazil head allegedly said was not a quote but was in the reporter’s words. I’ve emailed the editor of the LAHT to clarify in light of GM’s denial, since I write for some automotive sites, and he didn’t answer me. I call bullshit.

Don’t bother, their minds are made up. They won’t buy American cars because their dad had a crappy Ford back in 1985. The fact that mom had a crappy Kenmore doesn’t keep them from shopping at Sears. When their iPods break and are too expensive to fix out of warranty, they buy a new one and are thrilled with the bigger hard drive, that it can play videos and comes in cool new stylish colors, while they whine about Detroit and “planned obsolescence”. Go figure.

While the Detroit CEOs are summoned to Capitol Hill, hat in hand, Citigroup gets another $20 billion (on top of their first $20 billion) not as loans like the automakers want but as direct infusions of capital, plus the gov’t taxpayers will cover another $300 billion in losses. No CEO hearings, no giving up the business jets and corporate retreats, no mea culpas.

People hate Detroit, but I think they’re afraid to hate the banks. It makes no sense to me. Detroit may have sold them poor quality cars 20 years ago, but Wall Street has gutted people’s life savings.

Go figure.

We maintain a pretty large fleet of business jets for use by military brass. You think when a congresscritter flies on a “military jet” it’s some kind of cargo plane?

American cars are junk. I blame the UAW, bunch of crooks.

muyoso on November 24, 2008 at 8:31 PM

I drove Honda’s for about five years until their quality declined, and after that I bought a 1999 Ford Expedition and a 2002 Ford Focus. They were both trouble free, so I got a 2008 Ford F150 and I have had no problems so far.

General Motors plans to invest $1 billion in Brazil to avoid the kind of problems the U.S. automaker is facing in its home market, said the beleaguered car maker.

According to the president of GM Brazil-Mercosur, Jaime Ardila, the funding will come from the package of financial aid that the manufacturer will receive from the U.S. government and will be used to “complete the renovation of the line of products up to 2012.”

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=320909&CategoryId=12396

Speechless. Just speechless. So why are the taxpayers bailing these guys out again? Could someone explain that to me real slowly?