Quotes of the day
posted at 9:30 pm on November 23, 2008 by Allahpundit
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“Under the proposal, the government would shoulder losses at Citigroup if those losses exceeded certain levels, according to these people, who spoke on the condition that they not be identified because the plan was still under discussion.
If the government should have to take on the bigger losses, it would receive a stake in Citigroup. The banking giant has been brought to its knees by gaping losses on mortgage-related investments.”
*
“All financials will be owned by the U.S. government in a year. I bet you.”
*
“At the risk of hyperbole, we should not be worrying about whether this is going to be a thin Christmas for retailers (it is), but whether Britain and the West are about to plunge into a years-long economic Dark Age – complete with mass unemployment and social unrest…
The fattened-up capital cushions of the banks will be enough for a while, but banks remain colossolly levered. It wouldn’t take much of a deterioration in their assets to wipe out all the fresh capital raised. The banks may well have to come back to taxpayers for more. They will be given it, too, albeit at the price of total nationalisation.”
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Obamaclypse.
Jim62sch on November 23, 2008 at 9:34 PM
Meanwhile, Barney Frank and Christopher Dodd get away scot free.
fossten on November 23, 2008 at 9:36 PM
but whether Britain and the West are about to plunge into a years-long economic Dark Age – complete with mass unemployment and social unrest…
innominatus on November 23, 2008 at 9:41 PM
It should be a conservative goal to retire these guys if we can’t get them thrown in jail. Imagine if they were Republicans.
DerKrieger on November 23, 2008 at 9:41 PM
Obama, Pelosi, Reed, Emanuel, et al, pop the champaign and let the games begin. Oh wonder of wonder, miracle of miracles…
katy on November 23, 2008 at 9:44 PM
champagne not champaign. election on the brain
katy on November 23, 2008 at 9:47 PM
They can share a cell with the CEO’s and traders who collected huge bonuses for putting the banks into positions that would eventually sink the shareholders. Many of them have moved on with their millions–probably stuffed under their mattresses.
dedalus on November 23, 2008 at 9:48 PM
Obamaclypse.
Ditto
t on November 23, 2008 at 9:49 PM
Unbelievable still isn’t it?
Dritanian on November 23, 2008 at 9:52 PM
Does this mean that I don’t have to pay my credit card debt?
cjs1943 on November 23, 2008 at 9:53 PM
if they were Republicans.
They would be under indictment for malfeasance. Frank would have more…..
t on November 23, 2008 at 9:53 PM
RE: innominatus on November 23, 2008 at 9:41 PM
The minority blamed will be Republicans of course. They already are. Frank, Dodd, Clinton and his redefinition of redlining, Acorn and their recruitment of unqualified borrowers and Carter’s signing of the Community Reinvestment Act are not even on Europes radar.
KW64 on November 23, 2008 at 9:54 PM
Hmmm, a financial sector made up entirely of sovereign wealth funds? I wonder what federal hedge fund managers would have to get paid to attract the kind of talent necessary to make that work. If that level is significantly lower than current compensation packages for the managers of some of the largest hedge funds…and the same level of performance in terms of market based allocation of capital…where is the downside?
If anything, there is a case to make for the significant windfall this sort of arrangement could provide for the government. I mean im just wondering aloud but isnt there some sort of equation…some sort of set of variables for the circumstances i just laid out…where everything works…where everything just comes out fine?
ernesto on November 23, 2008 at 9:54 PM
He sounds overly optimistic to me. We are experiencing the bursting of a credit bubble. Practically everybody in the West is over leveraged. Dropping interest rates to encourage still more credit and spending while discouraging de-leveraging and savings is the opposite of what needs to be done before things can eventually improve.
So not only is he overoptimistic, he’s actually part of the problem, not the cure.
FloatingRock on November 23, 2008 at 9:57 PM
*Eats popcorn*
An Era of Hate on November 23, 2008 at 9:57 PM
Where’s my rescue?
I acted responsible with my money. I saved, I invested.
Why am I being punished for someone else’s problems?
I know life is not fair, but this is outright criminal.
Kini on November 23, 2008 at 9:58 PM
I got it now………….
Anyone with oversight authority to hold these people accountable are faced with loosing their jobs……..
Anyone with oversight authority to look the other way for political gains will keep their jobs………..
……….. I will tell my son a story of a country that once existed, based on the rule of law, decency, and a free and fair press.
……………………………. too bad it will be a bed time story about the once great country called the United States of America. I have no idea what to tell him where he lives now.
Seven Percent Solution on November 23, 2008 at 9:59 PM
Hugh Hendry and his comment that all Fianancials will be nationalized and the shareholders should get nothing — Well that is simply absurd. Many banks have a positive value and are nowhere close to bankrupt. It is unconstitutional to seize something of value and provide no compensation for it. It serves no valid purpose to engage in wild talk and drive share prices even lower on institutions that do not even have much risk in the subprime mortgage area.
KW64 on November 23, 2008 at 9:59 PM
It sounds like they’re going to be trying to hide losses. BHO has already proven himself good at hiding stuff that most people are forced to publish, so I guess we have an expert of that sort headed into office (but, in an interestingly evolutionary way, only if he can continue to hide his birth certificate) …
These loss hiding tactics usually prolong the pain for a long time, depending on the ultimate size of the losses.
I just can’t believe these morons have done this right as the race into space (the most important race for the next hundreds of years) is getting off the ground. Whoever wins the first round will be set for a long time of free expansion, which is the most liberating and creative period a country can go through. There’s more wealth in space than anyone can imagine, and we’re going to be stalled out because some poor people needed to think that they “owned” the property they resided in. What the heck was wrong with renting?
And the neo-Bolsheviks are going to push these programs even further. I can’t wait to see their global warming/enviro-nut legislation go into effect. That’s what I find funniest, in these days of graveyard humor, that the auto companies needed the first $25 billion to buold cars that Congress told them to build, that no one really wants to buy but that warms the hearts in Congress. The next carbon laws that Congress lays on us are going to have the auto companies coming back for $200 billion, just for that. And when they destroy the coal industry, whoa, Nelly!
progressoverpeace on November 23, 2008 at 10:02 PM
Whatever Obama says is constitutional will be constitutional.
gmoonster on November 23, 2008 at 10:02 PM
This is what happens when conservatives get in bed with democrats. We had a chance to put the country on the right track, but the greed in Washington got the better of the conservatives and, well…here we are.
csdeven on November 23, 2008 at 10:06 PM
Burpee
Skandia Recluse on November 23, 2008 at 10:09 PM
All your financials are belong to us.
Mr. Bingley on November 23, 2008 at 10:09 PM
We are in such deep doo-doo. If you read all of the quotes above, its all about the governments taking over everything. Good-bye freedom, hello slavery.
cjs1943 on November 23, 2008 at 10:15 PM
I’m not putting money into the bank.
I’m holding onto it.
I’m not investing.
I’m holding onto it.
IF the banks stops making bad loans, loans to illegal aliens, who skip out on their mortgages, etc, THEN I may consider putting money into circulation.
Until then, I’m not giving them money to lose.
madmonkphotog on November 23, 2008 at 10:19 PM
Dead right they can only go to ZIRP. We are about to enter a deflationary cycle that is going to be bad for debt holders and good for savers. Buy GOLD and put off your Christmas shopping until July (things will be much, much cheaper then).
knat on November 23, 2008 at 10:19 PM
The New World Order*!
Brought to you by:
-ACORN,aka Fraudulent Presidential Election Balots!
-William Ayers,aka ‘The un-repented bomber’!
-Dorhn, aka Bomberette,wish we bombed more!
-Barney Frank,aka Its my money now!
-Dodd,aka Don’t blame me,Barney made me do it!
-Nancy Pelosi,aka $700 Billion Dollars,and 8 Failed years
of Bush Policies!
-Janet Reno,aka If you don’t write off loans to the poor,
we will haul your banks #ss into court over Racist Loan
Tactics!
- Barack Obama,aka Community Organizer Agitater!
And to all those Liberal Democrat’s that made it possible
for all those mortgages to fail,and ruin America’s credit,
and put an economy in crisis by design,and pull this off
just before an American election and create one of the all
time Presidential election frauds in American History!
*(canopfor regrets the kooky ‘New World Order’ phrase from
the likes of idiot Alex Jones,however, since lefty kooks
think it exists,then Obama and his co-horts are the ones
that are creating it!)A Hem!
canopfor on November 23, 2008 at 10:19 PM
Hey Ed! How about a post about how some economic numbers aren’t that bad? Between the two of you guys I am getting whiplash from the econ. news.
Bill C on November 23, 2008 at 10:19 PM
Glenn Beck says buy canned goods. I am kinda agreeing with him.
lorien1973 on November 23, 2008 at 10:19 PM
Ah, Komrade…
It is a glorious new day. After Dear Leader’s Ascension to the throne, all wealth will be spread among the people.
What is yours, is the Government’s. What is the Government’s, is the Government’s. The Proletariat will not be burdened by capitalist dreams anymore. All good things will come from the State. /sarc off
Sound familiar?
kingsjester on November 23, 2008 at 10:20 PM
Everything is falling into place for President-for-Life Osama Obama.
Dung, meet fan. Immediately.
MrScribbler on November 23, 2008 at 10:20 PM
Thank you Democrap controlled congress. We are so screwed.
Zorro on November 23, 2008 at 10:21 PM
Federal Debt Relief System
Larry L. Sharp on November 23, 2008 at 10:22 PM
Glenn Beck says buy canned goods.
lorien 1973 on Nov.23,2008 at 10:19PM.
lorien 1973: Canned Spam!:)
canopfor on November 23, 2008 at 10:23 PM
And just think… nobody is talking about the $30 TRILLION debt we face for Medicare and Social Security in the coming years. That financial meltdown will make us long for the days of the $700B bailouts of old.
>:-(
cannonball on November 23, 2008 at 10:23 PM
Remember these words…
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.
Are we there yet?
cannonball on November 23, 2008 at 10:25 PM
We get ambifarked, and we deserve it, since we continue to vote for our own scoundrel, over, and over, and over.
Schadenfreude on November 23, 2008 at 10:27 PM
What do we do?
And how in the world can our politicians not see the long term danger, not to mention unfairness, in helping prop up companies that are in trouble because of bad business decisions?
kc8ukw on November 23, 2008 at 10:27 PM
but make sure you buy his book first! and attend his play too !
joey24007 on November 23, 2008 at 10:29 PM
I hate to sound like a conspiracy nut. But, if I were a Liberal and wanted a quick path to check mate I would make the entire capitalist system dependent on me for their survival.
In other words, I might take a huge portion of that capitalist system, say the financial sector, and exploit/leverage it to the hilt with bad paper through carefully crafted legislation. Then, when all of the bad paper got called in and the institutions all collapsed I would come in and “save” them by loaning them money in exchange for a nationalized ownership in the organization.
Check mate. Socialism wins.
Just a thought.
watson007 on November 23, 2008 at 10:32 PM
The way they’re talking now they’ll probably lower it into the negatives and start paying us to borrow money, probably with the provision that we spend it frivolously.
FloatingRock on November 23, 2008 at 10:33 PM
I think its more like … I am from the government and I am here to help”
and of course … they will funk it up
like every other time in the history of man
joey24007 on November 23, 2008 at 10:34 PM
One of the big problems this time around is that there are no regions that will escape the effect. It is global in nature and we cannot rely on an export market to help get us out of it. The Chinese economy is starting to stall which doesn’t bode well for the United States.
A consumer economy (65-70% is consumer based) that stops consuming is in trouble. Consumer debt is at an all time high while savings are close to zero or worse.
We as a people are not used to doing without.
families are no longer close knit.
We have an efficient economy that if interrupted would not take long for problems to arise. For example inventories use the just-in-time model which does leave much leeway for transport failures or strikes.
Citigroup this weekend and perhaps round two for AIG next weekend. They gave Citigroup $25B in October and now they need more. I wonder how long before Citigroup goes under.
Even the US government (well actually Chinese credit) cannot keep this up.
sharrukin on November 23, 2008 at 10:38 PM
Elucidate. Why are mortgages bad investments? Is there some explanation other than Carter and Clinton passing laws which required mortgage money be lent regardless of the ability of mortgagors to pay it back?
Why was a Democrat just elected POTUS? Are the American people stupid?
Basilsbest on November 23, 2008 at 10:39 PM
And a consumer economy that keeps spending is in even bigger trouble. Somebody has to produce and right now they’re mostly overseas, having lent us the money we’ve been consuming.
FloatingRock on November 23, 2008 at 10:42 PM
No, they are on the wanted for treason list.
wepeople on November 23, 2008 at 10:47 PM
You have that right. The United States needs to be able to produce domestically as long as that doesn’t lead to hothouse flower industries. Monopolies usually create those conditions (IBM, AT&T, Microsoft, Detroit Big 3), but so can tariff’s that are too high. No tariff’s however is just as destructive as there is no way that American workers can compete with overseas wage structures.
sharrukin on November 23, 2008 at 10:48 PM
Spam, rice, beans.
Demand for canned spam up, Hormel factories working overtime.
Skandia Recluse on November 23, 2008 at 10:49 PM
More good news
Every Stock Mutual Fund Has Lost Money in 2008, Except One
Annette Larson, who is Morningstar’s chief data cruncher, has worked at the Chicago firm since 1994. “I’ve never seen it this bad before,” she says. In fact, she was certain she made a mistake when she analyzed the most recent mutual fund data. “I thought to myself: ‘This cannot be right,’ so I did it again, and again, and then I realized all but one fund is negative. I’m in awe,” Larson says.
Not every fund company provides closing data to Morningstar on a daily basis, so there is a chance other funds are in positive territory for the year. But given the overall dismal return of stock funds in 2008, there is an even bigger chance those funds are down, too.
sharrukin on November 23, 2008 at 10:53 PM
I’m not worried. The Messiah will feed me.
Entelechy on November 23, 2008 at 10:53 PM
When is the government going to take over Microsoft? I always get an IE error when I visit HotAir.com these days. Anyone else have this issue?
SouthernGent on November 23, 2008 at 10:58 PM
not quite, but soon; very soon…..
BTW, I have NO debt in ANY of the 3 countries I hang out / live / am semi-retired in. Where’s my reward?
Janos Hunyadi on November 23, 2008 at 10:59 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_cheese
sharrukin on November 23, 2008 at 11:02 PM
this is the perfect storm….the big tidal wave is coming and we are not going to be able to get out of its way. we all see it and because of the ineptitude of our government and our “leaders” who are and always have been on the lookout for themselves and have sacrificed millions of human beings and their welfare for their own greed and power hunger. we as a country have lived beyond our means for far too long. it was destined to catch up to us sooner or later. there are countless “mansions” in my town that people have bought to be able to keep up with everybody else and they now sit empty or with a “for sale” sign in the yard. it’s all a surface game. we have got to get back to what’s important. God and family. think about it.
sandlin71 on November 23, 2008 at 11:04 PM
As the people starve and suffer, the elected Democrats will focus on only how to keep blaming their failure on the icon of George Bush they created for such a task….while they continue to get richer.
Hening on November 23, 2008 at 11:09 PM
How long til some of the more unhinged stop blaming Republicans and start blaming the Jews? Seems to me that we’re repeating history….
mjk on November 23, 2008 at 11:11 PM
Janos, which is the third country, besides the U.S.A. and Hungary?
Entelechy on November 23, 2008 at 11:14 PM
You have the privilege of paying for victims whom, through no fault of their own, are less responsible than you. :(
FloatingRock on November 23, 2008 at 11:16 PM
Since we’re already into alarmist territory, I’ll throw it out there. It would be very easy for the government to keep tabs on what individual citizens buy, sell, etc. if the banks and financial institutions are nationalized eventually. What if some rogue government employee decided to “check out” your finances because you suddenly became prominent? Or decided to freeze your assets? I used to work for a bank, it’s very easy to do. I may be way off base. I hope so.
theotherKate on November 23, 2008 at 11:17 PM
How can you ask such an obviously insulting question of the majority of voters? Besides, it’s not PC.
Entelechy on November 23, 2008 at 11:18 PM
Barney Frank is to easy of a target based on his high level of detestability. I prefer to hold accountable the ignoramous’ that vote for the likes of him, and those that would vote against him but stay home on election day.
All hail leadership based on their minority identity, and complete lack of morals….and if you complain of their lack of experience, wit or ethics you are a racist.
Hening on November 23, 2008 at 11:18 PM
…Like Citigroup.
FloatingRock on November 23, 2008 at 11:20 PM
Unknown to the populace, the business leaders and Political leaders of this country have created an unsustainable economy.
ANY 10% loss to the economy would have crashed the system… it did not matter where it came from.
The culprit is a little idea called Fractional Lending, and the amount of capital a Bank has to keep on hand.
With Fractinal lending, when you put your money in the bank, they can then make loans for 90% of the value, only having to keep 10% in assets. If the bank needs money, from say a major customer taking their money out, or the bank making a poor investment in somthing, they would then BORROW money from another bank to get the needed capital.
System was fine right up until there was a systemic loss (one to the whole system, not just a few banks).
The systemic problems started with the trade deficit… was added to by the oil problems last year, (both strained but did not break the system) but finally froze once the bad mortgages started to pile up.
Problem is that everyone we seem to chose to help solve the problem was not only complicit in creating the problem, but they don’t want to fix the inherent flaws in the system.
10% capital reserves for fractional lending is just plain too low. Looks like 25-33% would be a much safer more realistic level… but the FED and Congress won’t make those changes…. just as they won’t change NINJA loans… or further regulate the industry (except by Nationalizing it).
Romeo13 on November 23, 2008 at 11:20 PM
Read the NY Times article linked earlier at HA on the Citi meltdown. The chief culprit was none other than Robert Rubin, late of the Clinton Administration, and an advisor to Obambi.
Foolishness, greed, or a calculated strategy create an economic crisis? Or some combination of them all? One has to wonder. . .
Will he be guarding the henhouse?
MrLynn on November 23, 2008 at 11:23 PM
We Love Spam Musubi
Cheese is all good
Kini on November 23, 2008 at 11:25 PM
Timothy Geithner, worked under Rubin and Summers at Treasury. He was appointed to the Chairman position of the NY Fed under Republican President, GW Bush. Jim Leach, another Obama advisor, was the Republican Congressman who gave us the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which was backed by Democrats Rubin and Summers. Summers (officially) and Rubin (unofficially) are both Obama advisors.
Just a game of musical chairs.
sharrukin on November 23, 2008 at 11:27 PM
Congratulations! You’re now in debt!
Courtesy of your democrat party!
Kini on November 23, 2008 at 11:28 PM
hallo, Entelechy, kedves
Ireland ( wife’s relatives )
They were the first govt to guarantee ALL savings balances in all Irish banks with NO limit.
Janos Hunyadi on November 23, 2008 at 11:28 PM
Super.
Thank God the world ends in 2012.
ThePrez on November 23, 2008 at 11:30 PM
Seems like the government is trying to implement some kind of reverse *Survival of the fittest/Darwinism* here. We’re scroomed.
MB4 on November 23, 2008 at 11:31 PM
There are so many breakthrough technologies on the cusp of proper exploitation that the economic revival inherent in their development and application will INEVITABLY reignite the global systems.
Nanomaterials science, and the discovery of a mechanical form of a nearly friction-less surface design*(mimicking the microscopic structure of the face of a lotus leaf) means that the new Materials Revolution as rich as the Industrial Age itself, awaits the leadership to get it moving, and applied.
We are about to rise into a Fresh Realm.
Gloom and Doom should be sold short.
____________________________________________________________
*In essence, it is a kind of superconductivity in the fluids/gasses realm.
profitsbeard on November 23, 2008 at 11:37 PM
Won’t Al Gore’s Apocalyptic Global Warming have killed us all by then? I am beginning to sense a
tyrannical power grabpossible pattern here.MB4 on November 23, 2008 at 11:39 PM
Actually, it’s been recalculated for 2013, right after we win the house and senate.
Kini on November 23, 2008 at 11:39 PM
WSJ: Government to Guarantee $300 Billion in Citigroup Assets
Treasury has agreed to inject an additional $20 billion in capital into Citigroup under terms of the deal hashed out between the bank, the Treasury Department, the Federal Reserve, and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp.
In addition to the capital, Citigroup will have an extremely unusual arrangement in which the government agrees to backstop a roughly $300 billion pool of its assets, containing mortgage-backed securities among other things. Citigroup must absorb the first $37 billion to $40 billion in losses from these assets. If losses extend beyond that level, Treasury will absorb the next $5 billion in losses, followed by the FDIC taking on the next $10 billion in losses. Any losses on these assets beyond that level would be taken by the Fed.
Citigroup would also agree to work to modify — if possible — troubled mortgages held in the $300 billion pool, using standards created by the FDIC after the collapse of IndyMac Bank.
The government is not expected to require any management changes, as that was seen as potentially being too destabilizing.
sharrukin on November 23, 2008 at 11:39 PM
Kini on November 23, 2008 at 11:39 PM
Eh, figures.
theotherKate on November 23, 2008 at 11:40 PM
Scary stuff. God help us.
CP on November 23, 2008 at 11:41 PM
If we don’t freeze to death first
Kini on November 23, 2008 at 11:42 PM
Buy guns. That’s much better as then you can just take Gleen Beck’s canned goods for free.
Tuco on November 23, 2008 at 11:43 PM
Can we get a ruling on the constitutionality of that bizarre arrangement, sharrukin?
kc8ukw on November 23, 2008 at 11:44 PM
The One has heard your calls
Kini on November 23, 2008 at 11:45 PM
*In essence, it is a kind of superconductivity in the fluids/gasses realm.
profitsbeard on November 23, 2008 at 11:37 PM
Smart man, you finally told us what Obama had in mind when he said that he’d save the world. Thank you. I’m hopeful, again.
Entelechy on November 23, 2008 at 11:46 PM
I got a feeling that “green” is going to take a back seat to greenbacks in the near future.
Mojave Mark on November 23, 2008 at 11:47 PM
Speaking of ground zero….did I miss the “24: Redemption” thread or did Allah forget?
csdeven on November 23, 2008 at 11:48 PM
People are by nature fickle and it is easy to persuade them of something, but difficult to keep them persuaded.
- Niccolo Machiavelli
MB4 on November 23, 2008 at 11:48 PM
It’s either vaporware economy, or just gas
Kini on November 23, 2008 at 11:53 PM
I believe The One has made it clear that the constitution is an obsolete document that only holds meaning for Haters! You don’t want to be a Hater do you? Perhaps you need some sensitivity training.
No one cares anymore! By no one I mean our betters and 52% of the country, who in their infinite wisdom brought us this disaster.
sharrukin on November 23, 2008 at 11:54 PM
Nope, just stupid.
Kini on November 23, 2008 at 11:54 PM
The Barackapocalypse cometh.
indythinker on November 23, 2008 at 11:56 PM
I do have Hope and ….
…. and, it’s gone.
Kini on November 23, 2008 at 11:58 PM
What worries me is why the FDIC is third in line with regards to the loss line-up. Is something going on with the FDIC that inquiring minds should know?
sharrukin on November 23, 2008 at 11:59 PM
Ha ha. Thanks. I was being sarcastic and I should use the /sarc tag.
cjs1943 on November 24, 2008 at 12:03 AM
You remain tied.
I’ll keep the money, and you can have the rope.
FloatingRock on November 24, 2008 at 12:08 AM
Staflation. We will have to lower our wages, the big 3 will go bankrupt no matter what; They cannot survive the reccession, no one can buy their products. We will then face rapid inflation due to the FED printing money as if it is going out of style.
Theworldisnotenough on November 24, 2008 at 12:09 AM
And the good news?
In another 30 years I’ll be dead…
Mr_Magoo on November 24, 2008 at 12:10 AM
Not obsolete, I think he said flawed – which implies needs fixin’
Mr_Magoo on November 24, 2008 at 12:12 AM
You never had a rope around your neck. Well, I’m going to tell you something. When that rope starts to pull tight, you can feel the Devil bite your ass.
Tuco on November 24, 2008 at 12:12 AM
I suspect that’s true. Some are suggesting a deflationary scenario (Mish for example), but I have my doubts about that. I just hope we do not face a Yugoslavia/Soviet Union style collapse.
sharrukin on November 24, 2008 at 12:14 AM
FOXNews interrupted RedEye to confirm government bailout of Citi.
YAY!
SouthernGent on November 24, 2008 at 12:16 AM
When The One uses a word in the Constitution, it means just what The One chooses it to mean, neither more nor less.
Cheshire Cat on November 24, 2008 at 12:17 AM
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